Well I got the inertia since I had placed some orders from Midway and bring they rape ya on shipping I got some stuff that I *may need later on. What company sells the collet puller, I will get that the next time I order something.
Yes I had to whack the rifle to get the bullet to fall out. I was under the impression that the closer to the lands w/o touching gives better accuracy but I also know that each rifle is different and this is experimenting.
Since you mention the OAL in manuals is actually a good starting point in loading, is this what everyone does when they first load a cartridge to see how it shoots. And the OAL you are referring to is measuring the cartridge from tip to head with a caliper right? My thought was the length from the ogive to the tip is going to vary somewhat and that is why you measure from the ogive to the head.
From what you said I will load the NBT 50gr. 224 to 2.260 OAL and see how it loads in my rifle and the shoot it.
I should have mentioned this rifle an M700 ADL) had another barrel installed from another ADL rifle since someone bought a ADL and shooting factory fodder did not give them acceptable results so this person ordered a new barrel to be installed in their rifle. This meant the LGS had an extra barrel. My uncle brought his ADL (mine now) to the GS and said his nephew cleaned the barrel out with a wrong size brass (larger sized) and thus had this stuck in the barrel. So the GS replaced the ADL barrel with another ADL barrel. This barrel should be the same dimension as the original barrel.
So thanks for your tip. I will start loading now using the stated OAL from the book or manufacture and adjust from there. I think I incorrectly assumed we should measure to ogive and then back off some xx number but it is best to go with the OAL suggest in book and see how it shoots.
This has been a long running post but informative. Now back to whacking...
Well I got the inertia since I had placed some orders from Midway and bring they rape ya on shipping I got some stuff that I *may need later on. What company sells the collet puller, I will get that the next time I order something.
Yes I had to whack the rifle to get the bullet to fall out. I was under the impression that the closer to the lands w/o touching gives better accuracy but I also know that each rifle is different and this is experimenting.
Since you mention the OAL in manuals is actually a good starting point in loading, is this what everyone does when they first load a cartridge to see how it shoots. YES, PRETTY MUCH
And the OAL you are referring to is measuring the cartridge from tip to head with a caliper right? My thought was the length from the ogive to the tip is going to vary somewhat and that is why you measure from the ogive to the head.
Regardless, the OAL is defined as tip to head by manufacturers and SAMMI
From what you said I will load the NBT 50gr. 224 to 2.260 OAL and see how it loads in my rifle and the shoot it.
I should have mentioned this rifle an M700 ADL) had another barrel installed from another ADL rifle since someone bought a ADL and shooting factory fodder did not give them acceptable results so this person ordered a new barrel to be installed in their rifle. This meant the LGS had an extra barrel. My uncle brought his ADL (mine now) to the GS and said his nephew cleaned the barrel out with a wrong size brass (larger sized) and thus had this stuck in the barrel. So the GS replaced the ADL barrel with another ADL barrel. This barrel should be the same dimension as the original barrel. yes, should be.... if competent smith; may not be... So thanks for your tip. I will start loading now using the stated OAL from the book or manufacture and adjust from there. I think I incorrectly assumed we should measure to ogive and then back off some xx number but it is best to go with the OAL suggest in book and see how it shoots.
This has been a long running post but informative. Now back to whacking...
I seem to be getting confused with OAL. This is the measure from the tip of the bullet to the head...the overall length. This is virtually useless when you are reloading because the OAL will always be different. What reloaders are interested in is the contact point at the ogive regardless of the OAL...but the finished ammo needs to fit in the magazine unless loading single shot.
The Stoney and Comparator measures to the ogive.
I am in the process of removing the bullets and as someone and you stated adjust die down in increments until the case just fits in the chamber with minimal pressure.
BTW...its a chore to remove the bullets. I must have done more than 10 whacks before the bullet came out. I incorrectly assume the die was set up for sizing case but in reality I should have size one case and see if it fits in the chamber and get it right and then size all cases knowing it will work. At least I only got 28 cases to remove the bullet but I also have to resize probably 100 cases again. Live and learn...
BTW thanks to you and all of the other guys as I am learning a bit.
Sounds like you are getting the right idea. I also agree with swifty about the collet bullet puller, they work great. The inertia one is junk. I also agree with buckeyespecial on the RCBS dies:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeSpecial
RCBS dies are OK, I have no trouble with mine as purchased and used since 1983.
Here is a video you need to watch on adjusting your sizing die. He's using Lee dies, but it's the same process with the RCBS dies. Just make sure you tighten the lock ring when you are done. When you decide you want to get more anal and just bump your shoulder back .003", buy a RCBS precision mic (or similar tool). If your chamber is good (within SAMI specs), you can just full length size your brass, as detailed in this video:
This isn't my video, but it should help.
Here's another video on seating the bullet:
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Valad: Back in 1960 when I was teaching MYSELF how to reload centerfire ammunition ONE of the first lessons I learned was NOT to load up a "batch of ammo" and head for the range! The careful and prudent handloader should load ONE complete "test" cartridge and go to a safe place and make sure it fits and functions through ones Rifles action! THEN, after being successful with that or after rectifying any "problems", THEN load a batch of ammo and go test them at the range. Your, "inconveniencing" yourself, as you did at the range is nothing compared to a fellow I took to SE Montana Hunting many years ago - he had the same problem you did and we were 1,070 miles from homes and our loading presses! I hope you consider my suggestion - I know it will save you time, trouble and trepidation in the future. I have Big Game Hunting friends who have been "stung" in a similar fashion as you did to yourself, and they take the time (at home!) to run EVERY handloaded cartridge through their Rifles action. Better luck in the future to you. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
I agree with varmintguy and make up dummy rounds to test function through my rifles, before I even dump powder into a case. First and foremost, it HAS to function thru your rifle.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I DID make up dummy round but did not test in my rifle. I hesitate putting a live round in my rifle but in hindsight I should have put the darn dummy round in my rifle to test. This would save ALOT of time. You live to learn huh?
Now on to the sizing of the case. A previous poster said to turn the doe in 1/8 and test the case in the rifle and keep doing it until the bolt closes relatively easy. I know when you close a bolt on a round, it closes pretty easy. But I have then the die turn-in increments so much that I have rotated the die a total of 4 or maybe a bit less. There is no threads showing above the lock nut on the die. Is this normal? But the bolt closes "easier" than at the range for sure. So I think I am making some headway but who knows the die is turned way down in the press so I am unsure if this is natural.
And why does the RCBS instructions say to set up the die and when the shell holder is all the way up and the die touches the shell holder, move the shell holder down and turn the die down another 1/8 to 1/4 turn and you are set. When it should actually say "you may have to turn it in more to test function in your rifle". This is why I never thought that I have to test this.
So anyone know if a RCBS die is ok having been screwed almost all the way down such that there is no threads showing above the lock nut on the die? I have a bit more to do but the bolt does close a bit easier but still not like when I throw in factory fodder and close the bolt.
You are still not doing something right or your die is phcucked up. If that is the case, you just call or email RCBS and let them know and they will ask you to send yours in and they will replace it. Pretty easy. By following the die instructions, you will be full length sizing (like in the video I posted: WATCH IT!!!). When you adjust the die properly you will get a slight "cam over" with the press handle on your down stroke. By the sounds of it, you are really screwed up on your adjustment. I don't see how you can even bring the press handle down all the way with your adjustment.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I should have mentioned this rifle an M700 ADL) had another barrel installed from another ADL rifle since someone bought a ADL and shooting factory fodder did not give them acceptable results so this person ordered a new barrel to be installed in their rifle. This meant the LGS had an extra barrel. My uncle brought his ADL (mine now) to the GS and said his nephew cleaned the barrel out with a wrong size brass (larger sized) and thus had this stuck in the barrel. So the GS replaced the ADL barrel with another ADL barrel. This barrel should be the same dimension as the original barrel.
I'd like to add that I'd be suspect of the new/used/take off barrel that's on your rifle now. Have you had the headspace checked? Chamber cast or anything of that nature to make sure your chamber isn't out of SAMI spec??? It may not even be a die problem.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
First of all, I do not see a video link on your post. Can you see this link? I do not see anything besides you saying video.
You seriously think my dies are [bleep] up? I have a few new 223Rem brass and decided to take this brass and test in my rifle and the colt closing feels the same as the brass I end up with all of the adjustments. When you get new brass do you run it through the sizer die? if not then the bolt closes tight on this new brass. I have seen some say you should size new brass.
I will place an email to RBCS and let them know of my situation.
Meanwhile I will move on to working on this 270Win and see if I can get this to work for me.
That thought came to my mind too that this may be a chamber problem. But the gunsmith stated he did check the headspace. Not sure how I can check out the headspace unless I send it out.
So when you get new brass...they should function without resizing the brass right? I have a rifle for my son and its a 223Rem I can check with this new brass. This is a known shooter but its been a long while since I shot it. I will look into this tomorrow and get back with whether the new brass will fit in this chamber.
New brass should fit in a rifles chamber (a SAMI spec chamber) since it is full length sized and supposedly within spec. If the new brass doesn't fit in your rifle chamber, I'd be suspect of the re-barrel job...Keep us posted..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
First of all, I do not see a video link on your post. Can you see this link? I do not see anything besides you saying video.
You seriously think my dies are [bleep] up? I have a few new 223Rem brass and decided to take this brass and test in my rifle and the colt closing feels the same as the brass I end up with all of the adjustments. When you get new brass do you run it through the sizer die? if not then the bolt closes tight on this new brass. I have seen some say you should size new brass.
I will place an email to RBCS and let them know of my situation.
Meanwhile I will move on to working on this 270Win and see if I can get this to work for me.
Thanks for your help!
Yes, the videos are right there in one of my previous posts. You should really check them out and let us know if you are doing it as the video suggests. It may help you quite a bit..
Here's my previous post with the videos on it, let me know if you don't see them:
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by valad
I seem to be getting confused with OAL. This is the measure from the tip of the bullet to the head...the overall length. This is virtually useless when you are reloading because the OAL will always be different. What reloaders are interested in is the contact point at the ogive regardless of the OAL...but the finished ammo needs to fit in the magazine unless loading single shot.
The Stoney and Comparator measures to the ogive.
I am in the process of removing the bullets and as someone and you stated adjust die down in increments until the case just fits in the chamber with minimal pressure.
BTW...its a chore to remove the bullets. I must have done more than 10 whacks before the bullet came out. I incorrectly assume the die was set up for sizing case but in reality I should have size one case and see if it fits in the chamber and get it right and then size all cases knowing it will work. At least I only got 28 cases to remove the bullet but I also have to resize probably 100 cases again. Live and learn...
BTW thanks to you and all of the other guys as I am learning a bit.
Sounds like you are getting the right idea. I also agree with swifty about the collet bullet puller, they work great. The inertia one is junk. I also agree with buckeyespecial on the RCBS dies:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeSpecial
RCBS dies are OK, I have no trouble with mine as purchased and used since 1983.
Here is a video you need to watch on adjusting your sizing die. He's using Lee dies, but it's the same process with the RCBS dies. Just make sure you tighten the lock ring when you are done. When you decide you want to get more anal and just bump your shoulder back .003", buy a RCBS precision mic (or similar tool). If your chamber is good (within SAMI specs), you can just full length size your brass, as detailed in this video:
This isn't my video, but it should help.
Here's another video on seating the bullet:
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I can now see the video. Its not in the first post you indicated the video.
And looking at the LVSF 223Rem I have...I just pulled out of the safe and the new brass works easier loading than the ADL rifle I been working with. For some reason this is bothering me...I have shot factory fodder in this ADL rifle and it worked. Both were Winchester and Hornady loads. Maybe I am getting rifles mixed up.
Regardless...I do not know how to do a chamber cast and probably a gunsmith has the tools to do this as well as check headspace. So this rifle is gonna get a new barrel.
I have a LH .223 action that I been itching to get it barreled. Since I am a lefty I am going to make this a first priority so I am going to have to look for a barrel/stock etc. Maybe send this to Mickey but I got to get the parts together first. Now I am thinking...worth going for the .223 AI?
I have that LVSF for my son so this 223Rem ADL is not needed to fix now since I need to locate a barrel.
With all of this said...I am going to pull out my VS 22-250 and clean up brass and start loading this and keep in mind to keep this KISS...load to suggest OAL and go shoot it!
I am thinking this "why is everyone chasing max measurement to the lands and bumping off .020" when they can just load to OLA." Either they are chasing more accuracy or their rifle does not shoot good at OAL as suggest in books. I must have read all of this wrong. But from now on I will load new rounds to OAL and see how the rifle shoots.
You need to know where your lands are, that way you have a starting point with your handloads. Some guys like to KISS the lands and others like to back the bullet off by about .020". That way, you know the ammo will reliably chamber in your rifle. Furthermore, You don't want the bullet to be jammed into the lands or you will have trouble chambering the round. Make sure you are setting your dies up properly and know where your lands are and half the battle will be won.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I wanted to touch on one thing that someone brought up. When setting up sizer dies, you screw in the die to where it touches the shell holder (that is raised up of course) and then turn down say 1/4 more. And if the brass does not fit in the chamber of the rifle then you turn down say 1/8 and size again. Do this until the brass fits in the rifle.
What happens if you do the same thing such as setting the doe up as I stated with 1/4 turn and the brass fits in the rifle chamber. Should be back out the sizer die to maybe 1/8 to get a better fit? Or just assume 1/4 is going to give a good fit?
I am asking this because the RCBS instructions say to bring the sizer die down to the shell holder and then turn in 1 complete turn. But someone in this post said 1/4 is usually a good starting point.
Are we trying to get a near perfect brass to chamber fit but of course it needs to be slightly smaller than the chamber. Reason why I am bringing this up is because when I full size a brass I want to make sure I am sizing the brass from the head of the case. Is 1/4 die turn down enough to full size the brass?
If you are sizing your brass for just one rifle, why size it any more than you have too, or over work the brass? Some just necksize and occasionally full length size when they need to bump the shoulder back a couple thousands.
I would screw out the die one full turn, size one piece of brass and try to chamber it. If tight, then screw in slightly more, say 1/4 turn and size again, try to chamber, repeat until the brass chambers without a lot of resistance. Run with that setting.
I haven't read every post in detail, so I apologize if this is off base.
You're problem with loaded rounds not chambering actually sounds like a buller seater die mis adjustment to me. I've done this and found out the hard way.
If you don't unscrew the die one turn after setting it to kiss the shell holder, you are likely to crush the neck down a bit when you seat a bullet. When you push the neck down, it bulges the shoulders out slightly to where they won't chamber. It can be easy to miss, measure it with your calipers and you'll see it.
You can usually take the decapping pin and screw out of the sizing die and run them slowly back into the die to get the shoulder pressed back in, that should get them to chamber.
The other possibility is that you didn't lube the case neck and when you pull the expander button back thru the neck it pulled the shoulder back up.
Sorry for rambling, hope you get it figured out...
Ant. Crush the top of the case? That's a new one. Val.-Screw the die in exactly as the die mfg. instructions state for full length sizing. As the case is in as far as it will go the brass will not "crush" only be as small as the die will allow as long as the case length is under max length. (1.760")-Muddy
I haven't read every post in detail, so I apologize if this is off base.
You're problem with loaded rounds not chambering actually sounds like a buller seater die mis adjustment to me. I've done this and found out the hard way.
If you don't unscrew the die one turn after setting it to kiss the shell holder, you are likely to crush the neck down a bit when you seat a bullet. When you push the neck down, it bulges the shoulders out slightly to where they won't chamber. It can be easy to miss, measure it with your calipers and you'll see it.
You can usually take the decapping pin and screw out of the sizing die and run them slowly back into the die to get the shoulder pressed back in, that should get them to chamber.
The other possibility is that you didn't lube the case neck and when you pull the expander button back thru the neck it pulled the shoulder back up.
Sorry for rambling, hope you get it figured out...
Exactly!! I even posted a video so he could watch it, but he's just not getting it
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
