Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Ladder test, How, why?

John,

Its not that I dont believe you when you say they shoot in the lands.Lots of bullets shoot in the lands.The reason I avoid them I stated above.
To my eye.The classic Berger looks very much,to me, like a SMK or a Berger long range boat tail.I was not aware of the verbiage on there websight.
Interestly enough, just checking, Wilson straight line seater stems.
Regular against a VLD.
The VLD stem "fits" VLD and Hybrid bullets nose profiles perfectly.
The classics I have.Wobble in either stem.
Although they do seem alittle better in the VLD stem.
dave

Boxer:

I think I've mastered the ladder. What is all this talk about Annie?

Annie is the ghost of instinctive shooter's. Few have seen her. Once you see her, you will never miss.

Her given spirit name is ANSCHUTZ!

Jason,
A number of years ago a group of short range bench rest shooters had access to a warehouse in Texas.They conducted indoor tests at 200 yards with rail guns and HV 6mm PPC rifles and dialed there rifles down to impossible,crazy, levels of accuracy.There were after all no conditions inside the warehouse.
Armed with loads that would agg in the "zeros" they went forth out into the real world and promptly got there collective azzes handed to them by guys who load develop like the rest of us. ... ie outside.
Your points about conditions and the vertical aspect of them skewing the results of ladder tests are very valid.But those same vertical aspects of a condition can also skew any test you choose to run.

dave

Ahh, I always did have a thing for German broads.....

Jordan, Boxer,

Thanks for the info on SD & ES. This jives with what the rocket scientist has been saying (Litz). He says to shoot as many as possible, and at least a 10-shot sample.

Jason

Dave,

I've got that article around. I should read it again.

Been meaning to talk to a couple of the US F-T/R guys. A co-worker was going to get them to put on a little reloading class for a few of us. I didn't handload the last time they came to visit at work so the nuclear 308 loads didn't mean much to me then.

Jason

Jason

I've said a few times in various threads, and in this one too, I think, that I run an Audette, and then I'll run every one in the node I choose.

And continue to run tests up to 10 shot groups as I close in on the one I want.

And FWIW, when folks are talking jam the bullet, thats good by me , but not just kissing. And the ones that run to pressure, are doing a ladder, just to stubborn to admit it. They won't shoot a 3 or 5 shot set of groups to find pressure, they are running one at time. Thats a ladder or in respect to Creighton, an Audette.

Why, at that time, not only admit what you are doing ,but also utilize it. For not only pressure, but to see where the MV is, and to see where the best spots of accuracy might be? 3 birds or so with one stone?

As to SD/ ES.. I have zero clue really. I don't trust em. At all.

I run the chrono at first, just to see if I can even get where I need to be.

Example was first run of 90 jlks in 20 inch 223 service rifles. Tried N550 due to some research. Showed a lot of potential. Accuracy wise on a single Audette. MV was 100 or more FPS below what I needed for it to be worth the effort.
I did take the middle of the highest node and shot a 3 shot group, just to see what it would do accuracy wise and reconfirm MV. Group was fine. MV was still low.
Had to go to N540. That one worked out.

But had I done it a different way.... I'd have burned a lot more bullets and N550 before realizing it wasn't worth it.

Why I can't tell you about ES and SD is after I know where I'm at, I"ll only pull the chrono again to verify a single 10 shot gropu at the end of my confirmation, which may be after a handful of actual matches. Just so I have reference what MV to chase as the barrel wears and MV drops off.

What I prefer to do, and actually do, is I"ll rarely ever not shoot my final tests at the actual distance and there I trust the paper, not a chrono, as to whats best. Proof in the pudding as they say?

I've not seen it always be as some are insisting, get to max pressure that you will accept and start shooting. That being the best ever load accuracy wise.
I'm also not saying shoot a mild load. And I well realize the need for speed, to help yout out on things, especially wind calls.
And I appreciate those that shoot slow accurate loads against me and brag on their accuracy in tests... for they will loose every time to me in a match in conditions.

Yet to blindly say anything is the best... is kinda crazy. Just like the statement about bergers and in or out of lands with hybrids... something may be 90% true, but its never 100% true.

Eitehr that or I need a better smith, mine is only a national highpower champion, or better barrels or something...and if someone knows a source, where I could get every last gun built to where all I had to do is hit top pressure and the groups were so good you'd never have to ever walk down and look at the target... I wanna know? I will change ASAP.

heck there supposedly is someone here that swears by 75 amax, I think, and would probably spew all kinds of names if I said they are ok, but watch to make sure the QC is there on each batch.... I had 2 batches not be fully pointed up, you could tell by measuring the OAL of the finished bullets... which I found by trying to figure out WTF happened with the next batch of 5000 bullets.... Doesn't mean they aren't typically good but you have to watch everything in life.

of course if you buy in lots large enough to burn barrels, as you should, but we don't always do or cna't alwasy find or afford, then you are fine. I"ve set some range records with amaxes....

Proof is on the paper at the distance for me.

BTW if I didn't need to shoot 10-20 shot groups for what I did, I might be happy to simply shoot a lot of even 3 shot groups to confirm.. how many do you shoot when hunting anyway... but if shooting a 22 shot group for score you need to know how everything performs over the course of a few minutes with fast shooting or 22 minutes slow depending on the day and conditions....

Jeff

Miss Annie

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uLJjY44X_0M[/video]

Well bless your heart !

Hint!

Annie = Anschutz.

You can call her by her nickname ONLY if you have an Annie. That's the rules. Break the rules and you will have bad Karma!

Well, imagine that! Who would've known? Karma! But in fact I do have an Annie, in fact two port side versions, or did; still have one.

Foolishness brings it's own bad "Karma", if that's your word. Take care.

A little touchy today huh? I do not like that word either(Karma). Almost as bad as Zombie.

Love them Annie's. Two 22lrs,a 22mag and a Hornet myself. All 54's.All sporters.

Yes, but I'm trying not to be.

We all get like that sometimes. We are all here for you if you need help.

Thanks for your kindness. Sporters -- .22LR, .17 HMR ( down the road).


Where do I send the bill?

pro bono

Gibby,

I gave SERIOUS thought to epoxying the Annie rear to the '69.

[bleep] it...still might.(grin)










Jordan,

It ain't veddy suplizing,what quality components will reliably do and in fact,such things is boringly predictable.

Not that I don't enjoy the hilarious trevails of a great Smoke And Ladders yarn.

FUNNY schit!









'7mm,

I've alotta dies,stems and parts and the opening move is always gonna be to kiss,find pressure and rock on.

Always a hoot to have someone show up with their rifle and best load,then smoke it on the first pitch.(grin) Consistency is key and in fairness...most folks is lost at die set up. Then it gets ugly from there.

Though I do enjoy this Ladder Bullschit and how folks like to make simplistic things far more difficult than need be,due their "keen" insight.

I'm rather at ease in cutting to the [bleep] chase and ringing the bell.









'pole,

Annie will make your wallet come out.

Tread lightly there...as there is NO return.(grin)










4th,

No matter how much someone likes ladders,increasing ES/SD ain't gonna do no favors. Of course that is so very [bleep] obvious to most,that it usually needn't rate noting...but I see the gals here are reliably in wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over their pointy [bleep] heads. Which is of course,the ONLY reason this schit is [bleep] funny.(grin)

Now I'd be the last to argue amassing round count,but once you know what the [bleep] does what and more importantly why,you can reliably nip things tidily in veddy veddy short order. Not that more punched primers won't correlate the initial findings,but one can fling them boolits elsewhere and in complete confidence.

One of many reasons,I procure in large lots.

Hint.










rost',

You're slowwwwlllllly learnin',when you reiterate your cluelessness,yet again.

Sweetie...that ain't a [bleep] "secret" and there's no need to state it over and over,though you of course will. Laffin'!

Funny how it actually works.










3rd,

I ain't much fun to try and keep pace with.

Hint.










Paul,

I didn't look,but perhaps rost' gained traction on her Imagination And Pretend Board and Pouty Hunter may be lighting it up,with her dazzling array of Dumbfhukkery.

My fingers IS crossed.

Laffin'!

Though I've this "hunch",that Ladder Sales never was gonna be bolstered,even a [bleep] smidge.

Wow +P+!