Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire As a hunter has your view about killing changed any?

I think some have done that FH.

Strangely, she's not concerned about all her friends who feel anyone who has ever killed anything should be strung up to die.

Great thread. For me, the progression was backwards, in that the first deer I ever shot was almost the last. I was 18, and shot a doe at about 10 yards. She took a few seconds to die, and cried and moaned while she was expiring. It took me a long while to get over the pain of reliving that experience, I can tell you. In retrospect, it was probably a good thing, because it taught me to deeply respect other living creatures and to be cautious and discerning about taking a life - a lesson that most 18-year olds take longer to learn.

I get no great pleasure from watching any animal die. I see the killing as a necessary last step in a successful hunt, but the experience is secondary to the both the thrill of being in the outdoors and the challenge of trying to become part the natural world. And ... it almost goes without saying, I'm a meat hunter.

Just had roasted elk tenderloin tonight with mashed potatoes, gravy, and asparagus. Made the killing worthwhile.

There is something deeply satisfying about growing your own food, catching your own fish, and shooting your own meat.

Yes. As we have gotten further and further away from our connection to the land and nature, this lesson of humility, place, and power has been lost.

Hence, I feel, greater levels of violence we see. I think its true what they say, in many different ways: guns make for polite society.

The "killing" is also beneficial for a young mans development. Im not saying one absolutely has to, just that after you spill alittle blood, it speeds and affirms the maturation process some.. As an ancient gender role confirmed perhaps. Like your first sexual encounter. You'll never be quite the same.

Its missing for most young boys today. They too politely turn away, or turn up their nose or see it as barbaric, when there is comfort, strength, and a deep lesson to be gained knowing you can conquer what makes you a bit fearful or sick. Pushing through to greater personal growth, and emotional strength.

Or, not.

I am in total agreement with Steelhead.

Genesis 9 - God�s Covenant with Noah and Creation

A. God�s covenant and instructions to Noah.

1. (1-4) Instructions for living in a new world.

So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: �Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.�

a. Be fruitful and multiply: The world Noah entered from the ark was significantly different from the world he knew before. God gave Noah the same kind of mandate He gave Adam in the beginning of creation (Genesis 1:28), since Noah essentially began all over again.

b. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you: And, even as Adam received instructions for eating (Genesis 1:29-30, 2:15-17), so does Noah. Yet now, Noah receives specific permission to eat animals, permission Adam was not given (as far as we know).

i. Perhaps this was because the earth was less productive agriculturally after the flood, because of the ecological changes. Therefore God gave man permission to eat meat.

c. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth: If man now ate animals, then God would help the animals. For their protection God put in them a fear of mankind.

i. Again, presumably before the flood, man had a completely different relationship with the animals. God did not put this fear in animals because man did not look to them as food.

ii. �Did the horse know his own strength, and the weakness of the miserable wretch who unmercifully rides, drives, whips, goads, and oppresses him, would he not with one stroke of his hoof destroy his tyrant possessor? But while God hides these things from him he impresses his mind with the fear of his owner, so that ... he is trained up for, and employed in, the most useful and important purposes.� (Clarke)

d. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood: God also commands Noah that if animals are eaten, there must be a proper respect for the blood, which represents the life principle in the animal (Leviticus 17:11, 17:14 and Deuteronomy 12:23).

i. The importance of the idea of blood in the Bible is shown by how often the word is used. It is used 424 times in 357 separate verses (in the New King James Version).

� Blood was the sign of mercy for Israel at the first Passover (Exodus 12:13)
� Blood sealed God�s covenant with Israel (Exodus 24:8)
� Blood sanctified the altar (Exodus 29:12)
� Blood set aside the priests (Exodus 29:20)
� Blood made atonement for God�s people (Exodus 30:10)
� Blood sealed the new covenant (Matthew 26:28)
� Blood justifies us (Romans 5:9)
� Blood brings redemption (Ephesians 1:7)
� Blood brings peace with God (Colossians 1:20)
� Blood cleanses us (Hebrews 9:14 and 1 John 1:7)
� Blood gives entrance to God�s holy place (Hebrews 10:19)
� Blood sanctifies us (Hebrews 13:12)
� Blood enables us to overcome Satan (Revelation 12:11)

2. (5-7) God gives to man the right and responsibility of capital punishment.

�Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man�s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man�s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man. And as for you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth and multiply in it.�

a. Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning: According to God�s command, when a man�s blood is shed there must be an accounting for it, because in the image of God He made man. Because man is made in the image of God, his life is inherently precious and cannot be taken without giving account to God.

i. By man his blood shall be shed means because life is valuable, when murder is committed the death penalty is in order.

ii. In its original languages the Bible makes a distinction between killing and murder. Not all killing is murder, because there are cases where there is just cause for killing (self-defense, capital punishment with due process of law, killing in a just war). There are other instances where killing is accidental. This is killing, but not murder.

iii. The Bible also consistently teaches that the punishment of the guilty is the role of human government (Romans 13:1-4) so as to restrain man�s depravity. It also teaches that the guilt of unpunished murder defiles a land (Numbers 35:31-34). As Luther said, �God establishes government and gives it the sword to hold wantonness in check, lest violence and other sins proceed without limit.� (Boice)

b. From the hand of every beast I will require it: To see the strength of God�s command, He even requires a reckoning for the life of man from every beast. God does not condone unlawful killing of any kind.

c. Be fruitful and multiply: This point was repeated because it needed emphasis. The earth badly needed repopulating.

A summer working in a slaughter house would cure that.

I've hunted now for 55 years,lots of things have fell to my guns over that time. At first some were killed just to see them die, later they were killed as trophies, and later killed for their meat
About 15 years ago the killing lust left me and the joy of being outdoors usually with my son moved into my spirit. I still share the excitement of opening day deer season, but usually draw a bead on the deer and go bang under my breath. I'll still shoot a nice buck if I see one, but around here that's not going to happen.
About the same time I finally figured out that my joy was shooting and not killing. So I found my self getting involved in trap shooting, now I can kill 300 birds a day and never have to worry about cleaning or eating them
During my hunting career I'd shoot maybe 10 shots, 9 at targets and 1 at an animal, and my shooting season would last two weeks.
Now I shoot 16,000 times a year and my shooting season is about 10 months long.
I do believe age has a lot to with it and pushing 70 has taken it's toll on how many days are spent in the woods.

That was revenge

Whole different set of rules there.

It's why possums exist.

I have come to the same place as you, bcraig. In fact, I'm probably worse.

I'm not anti hunting and may have to kill in order to survive but that's the only reason I'll kill. I find that I have less and less patience with the "trophy hunter". My ego does not require or demand that I kill something in order to validate my existence.

I was building a rifle for a customer and he said, "If I see a monster deer beside the road I'll shoot him, cut his horns off and leave him there." I didn't even want to finish his rifle and will never do another for him under any circumstances.

A well known barrel maker was in the habit of setting up a Barr & Stroud rangefinder and shooting elk at over 1200 yards. I'll never buy one of his barrels. Anybody who uses a magnificent animal for target practice is beneath contempt. In the time of flight of the bullet at that distance the animal can take one step and turn a heart shot into a gut shot. If the animal is across a canyon you know the "hunter" won't make that trek just to verify a kill.

+1. You should do it yourself, if for no other reason than to know what's involved.

And if you decide not to, that's fine, as long as it's your choice and not someone else telling you that killing is wrong. Killing is the way of nature.

I love killing schit.



Travis

I generally like your posts and this hasn't disappointed.

Sure my view has changed. When I was young and inexperienced, I wanted to be "as good as the older guys". I can remember my first pheasant, first deer, first trout like it was yesterday. As a matter of fact I'l bet I can account for EVERY animal story over the years. Now, I have a hard time convincing my son that it isn't "important" for ME to kill something as it is for me to WATCH someone else succeed. That being said, I hunt and fish as often as I can. I hardly EVER "pass" on an animal that I have hunted for. If I happen on an animal that I was not hunting I may or may not decide to pass on it. My heart still pounds and I get excited as the devil when I decide to shoot or when I have a big fish on the line. I guess the bottom line is that I look upon my chosen sport with more maturity that I did before. If I die, I would like to die while hunting or fishing. If that happens, I will die a happy man.

yeah, I do way more hunting than killing these days, but I do kill. At my core I'm a hunter and fisherman but I do not hunt so that I might kill. But, I am keenly aware killing is part of hunting.

Let me offer a couple of comments. Just the other side of the coin.
Someone that kills to cut off antlers and go on, is a poacher, game thief, and should be convicted of such. NOT a hunter. Or a trophy hunter. Period.

To me anyway. Trophy hunting to me is hunting a specific animal, and that one may have big antlers or none at all. Instead of just shooting what comes along, I try, at times, to be specific for whatever reason. Not to orphan fawns even though they will survive. To put antlers on the wall. To help cleanse the gene pool. To not let an older animal suffer. To put sausage in the freezer etc... many reasons for being specific.

Re the long range, everything has time of flight. And that time of flight can be micro seconds or seconds. ANYTHING can move at any time and screw up a shot. IMHO more close range ones are screwed because more are attempted. And more long range ones work because of the ability of the folks, they KNOW about things like time of flight, and whats good or bad... Typically a prepared long range shooter will pass on many shots, but the ones they take are as close to 100% as you can get.

As to going to check, if the guy was setting up a Barr and Stoud, he'll go find the game after he shoots.

Now OTOH how many bubbas out there hunt with a boresighted (or not) never fired walmart gun and ammo and are so convinced that if they hit the deer its going to knock it over, that if they get a shot, even at 100 yards or less adn the deer runs off, they won't even go look. ...
My long was 802... up a mountain. Took us over an hour to get up to the location to find the caribou. Would not have done it any other way, IE not going to look.

I"m not arguing so much as giving another point of view.

But in the end I don't have to kill to feel successful now either. As a youth I did. But now I feel remiss if I dont', just because of the lack of fresh and dry sausage...

Jeff

I have stopped leasing property annually for hunting. I have many big game rifles & less will to use them. My intention is to pay for a guided hunt when I get the notion. And, that is not nearly as often as in earlier years.

Looking so forward to my custom rifle build finishing up soon. I enjoy shooting targets immensely, even with typical hunting rifles.

I grew up where we raised our own animals then killed them. The raising was a long process and hard work... killing in whatever method was easy and also an end to raising... then processing was more work and a job needing done right.

Hunting is the same, the hunt is a long process including scouting and previous experience... killing is easy.

I don't raise animals anymore and there may come a time I don't kill anymore... but I'll hunt for as long as I can get out.

Kent