I am a hunter and gun nut for 44 years.
I believe in hunting as a means of controling animal populations to prevent disease,starvation etc.
I firmy believe in the right to keep and bear arms.
I have killed many animals, small game and at least a couple of deer a year for those 44 years.
Used handguns,bows ,blackpowder etc.
I just wanted to say these things before I get to my main question so the people who dont know me wont think I am an anti gunner or hunter.

I am finding myself in a position that I love the outdoors,shooting ,and hunting BUT I am enjoying the killing of animals less and less.
Where I hunt there is no realistic danger of overpopulation of deer,
Although I like to eat deer meat I certainly would not dry up and blow away if I never eat it again.
I have always been humbled somewhat after taking an animals life(except for when I was a Kid )but I find myself more and more questioning myself why I kill for sport.
Every time I kill an animal(deer for example)I find myself thinking that this animal was alive and I took its life for what reason?
I gut, skin and cut up my own kills and do not waste any more meat than I have to, SO I am not killing JUST to be killing, But still find myself thinking that I am killing when I dont have to ,as in survival.
I just dont like the killing as much as I used to.
Nothing left to prove ,no wonder IF I can with homemade bows and arrows,reloads ,cast bullets etc.I KNOW I can .But wondering more and more if I should.

I know this all sounds like probably the wrong thing to say on a hunting, fishing forum BUT just wondering if there are any other hunters here who have experienced or are experiencing these types of thoughts when killing animals?

While in college I was part of a team that had a collection permit for research. We killed deer from the end of season (first of January) in a high rack with spotlights till bucks dropped their antlers and we couldn't tell bucks from does easily. In 3 years we killed over 1000 deer. After that I got to harvest waterfowl with a supressed .22 off of the water and testing them for bird flu.

After that I really cut back on hunting as I just didn't want to shoot anything else for a long time.

I don't dance around, jerkoff and high five everyone in sight after killing a critter.

That said, I still get much gratitude in it and don't think much about it as it's not a hobby, it's something I'm supposed to do.

I know I will always eat meat, so I'd rather it come by my hands than from the store. I figure if you are always gonna eat something that was living and breathing you should do it yourself.

Life feeds on life. Always has, always will.

I'm not much into killing these days.

From the time I was a little kid, I roamed the woods with a rifle looking for something that would pass for game,..but not now.

And it's not that I had any type of profound revelation about it or anything like that.

I just lost interest in it.

If I needed to eat and hunting was the answer, I wouldn't think twice about it,...and I don't begrudge anyone their interests in hunting, or their ability to hunt.

It's just that I don't care for it anymore.

I quit hunting completely a while back. I have no compunction about killing animals (I always said that it wasn't a good day unless I'd killed something) but I did get less and less satisfaction out of it over the years.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with it, but I've probably killed more people than game animals - provided we don't count prairie dogs, that is. So perhaps I've simply had a surfeit of killing. And again, there's an exception: fish. I catch fish largely to eat them. No second thoughts there.

But hunting? Nah. I'm done.

Other than shooting coyotes that prey on live stock in our area here, my 'killing' is to put meat on the table.
Never cared for killing animals just to do it.

I hunt all the time. Dying animals is my least favorite part.

Sissies....







Just kidding.

We fill the freezer. Besides hunting deer and elk, we raise meat goats, chickens, & geese for the table. I do a lot of killing. A member of PETA I'm not.

I've done my share and then some.

Maybe that's why.

a major part of our meat diet comes from wild game. I have hunted all north American wild life for over 50 years and never "enjoyed" the death of an animal.
I have been proud of some that I harvested but as I get older it is harder to take some things life.
I have some health issues but that has influenced me only a small bit. I respect animals and enjoy living with them as neighbors so anymore I travel quite a ways to hunt. that way I don't know the critter that I'm eating.
so yes my feelings have changed over the years.

I hunt 30 days per year and might kill one buck every three years on average. Killing stuff seems repugnant now for the sake of just killing, unlike when I was 18. Back then I shot 3 deer per year, two turkeys, hundreds of armadillos, and gobs of rabbits & varmints per year.

Now, I try like hell to get a bull elk every year and a big buck but fail on average.
It has to take my breath away now for me to pull the trigger on it. I would rather get up, make coffee, take a drive to the farm, crawl up in my stand and sip mocha while I watch a sunrise and anticipate the arrival of mr big.

I guess that's why I find canned hunts, or even hunting any species on the decline to be personally unsatisfying and slightly vile.

Nothing wrong with being witness to the circle of life, nor to being a part of it. I have no interest in chasing horns, I hunt for the meat and if a big one comes along, well great, if not I'll be plenty happy to come home with doe meat to feed my family. Man, I love nature and the outdoors! Realistically your body is killing something every second you draw breath...just because it is a critter vs a plant doesn't mean it's more alive than the other. I am proud to play a critical role in the balance of nature. Wanton bloodlust is not a natural part of that cycle and can severely impact it.

We're blessed to live here and now, but you have to ask yourself, would you even ask this question if there wasn't a grocery store down the corner?

I kill animals for food. Just the way it is. My two girls 6 and 8 also know contribute to the family. Don't have to do it this way. Seems natural to grow, catch and kill food.

People's interests and goals change over the course of their lives. Lots of times its a matter of been there, done that.

As for me, I have never been a thrill killer even as a young person so no, my view has not changed much. If I kill it, I am going to eat it or someone else is....nothing goes to waste.

I still enjoy taking fish and game.

I hunted for the thrill and challenge of getting mr bigger after becoming successful, but as the possibilities of that having diminished due to the size of the big ones I've killed and the scarcity of bigger bucks the thrill has diminished.

Mainly I kill a couple of does for meat and see how much less beautiful they and the deer others kill just a few minutes after the shot than what they were alive, the only challenge being to get a video of a good kill with a luminock, though it is enjoyable to see the thrill I once got in the eyes of a successful young hunter who will regretfully probably never have a chance to really stalk and hunt and see the sights I have.

I still love to hunt,love to see animals in their environment but finding them is now the challenge. Pulling the trigger is now secondary, though if I don't have to pack them out alone they are still delicious. I do want to shoot a wolf. Happy Easter.

mike r

Killing is killing, always has been and never a part of the equation, look at it this way, by providing your family and yourself with fresh wild game meats you are providing the best there is, most grocery store meats are steroided, horemoned, iradiated cuts of trash injected with solution [salts] and preservatives, no comparison to wild game meats.

Gunner

I can understand your sentiments about hunting and as I've grown older I've also pondered the same things. However, I have a different opinion when it comes to the part that's highlighted ...

"I have always been humbled somewhat after taking an animals life(except for when I was a Kid )but I find myself more and more questioning myself why I kill for sport."

I view the acts of hunting as sport (scouting, glassing, stalking, etc.) but when it comes time to pull the trigger it is killing. The moment the animal is down it then becomes food.

I don't have a problem killing my food and I'm a meat hunter first and foremost.

Another way to put it is hunting, for me, involves sport, killing, and food versus just an act of sport killing.

With all that said, I don't have the bloodlust I had when I was a kid.

Depends on why you're killing them. For example, I don't think twice about swatting a mosquito or fly; love the sound of a wood tick going "click" in my Leatherman pliers. If you really think about it that tick's life is as important to the tick as your life is to you. Now if you want to restrict the thread to "game animals", I'd have to say that I'm not as fanatic about filling every possible tag that I was 30 years ago, I have absolutely no compunction about squeezing the trigger on a meat whitetail. I do however, get kind of a thrill to let a little buck walk by, that years ago would have been meat.

There's about a half dozen possums and the same number of 'coons,...and one particularly rank old feral tomcat that makes my backyard a part of their stomping grounds.

15 years ago the whole lot of 'em woulda et a hollowpoint a long time ago.

But the way I see 'em today,...they're just scratching around trying to make a living,..and not bothering anybody or anything that doesn't bother them.

In other words,...they're just like me.

I throw 'em a chicken leg ever now and then.

I can recall when I wished somebody would throw me one.

I can also remember when a chicken leg would have made my day,

my blood lust has abated as well


still do it though, cause I don't have the skills to grin a moose into our freezer

and perhaps since I mainly only hunt moose anymore, it could be I've developed a flinch

pull the trigger, watch moose fall

and then FLINCH


oh but you've buggered yourself again ya big dummy

I'm not very keen on packing meat anymore either

but like killing, necessary evil to fill the freezer

I believe, the closer you get to death yourself, the less you want to kill things. Unless yer f'd up.

I also believe people's political beliefs evolve, unless yer f'd up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG4V_6pCLVo

I never took pleasure in the killing part, less so now. So why hunt and fish? At the root of it it's my nature, people are predators. That's our role in nature, our instinct. When I have an animal in the sights or a fish following I find myself locked down with determination and no remorse in the result. Pleasure in the process and result (usually food) but not the killing. The process connects me to the world, the ecology if you will. Much more so than walking around observing nature, actually being a part of it. So many "ecologists," the bunny huggers who set themselves apart from their human nature, lack perspective on how the world, nature, works and man's place in it. Shared with friends and family, my tribe/pack, so much the better.

Yep, if you aren't liberal when you're young and dumb, you have no heart.
If you aren't conservative when you're old, you have no brains.

The older I get, the more depressing it is to me that many were fine with giving our country and wealth away, regardless of what those who died for it had to say.

Said it better than I could/can.

This ^^^

When I was a teen I'd kill anything with a smile of satisfaction.



Now I have an appreciation for how fragile life is, and what a gift every day is.

Only a liberal troll would toss politics into this thread

i'm the same way anymore. i just enjoy going to camp, sighting in my guns, putting on the clothes, going into the woods and reliving my old times. i don't care if i pull the trigger on an animal anymore. i shoot one deer a year because i like deer meat and jerky and the whole field to table experience.

I regards to the OP..when I was young I felt I had to fill every tag because of the financial outlay that could have been used to "buy" groceries. Yep the big bucks and bulls excited me. I have a house full of mounts to show for it. Now if I see a buck or bull it most likely gets a pass. If I fill one or 2 out of 6 tags a year it is by choice. I like wild game meat but I let the bucks live just because our populations are down. I would rather shoot a spike bull or young cow elk because I don't need anymore antlers but I do enjoy the meat. And with no family at home how much can two people eat? A hunting license supports our game & fish department and gives me an excuse to be outside.

I've hunted for 30 years now, with the exception of last year. I no longer hunt to kill, but rather because I enjoy venison, and I enjoy being in the woods. I always feel and express reverence for the deer I kill, and there's always a bit of sadness when I do kill a deer. I also find I don't have to kill to have a successful hunt.

I was never a hard-core killer of big game or small and some of my best hunts I never fired a shot.
I love getting close and beating the animal, being inside their safety zone and they don't know I'm there.
If they volunteer, well I usually shoot but I've been hollered at for not taking the shot and just smiling and knowing I could have.

Killing to feed myself of family doesn't bother me in the least but I don't have to kill to have a successful hunt.

P.S. If Nebraska gets overrun with deer again I'll be there to help!

I guess I am different. I love to hear bullet meet hide. Nothing better than a day on a prairie dog town. Or shooting antelope, or deer or....

I still like to fill tags. I don't think it will ever get old.

Dink

Hmmm...

For flat dead certain, be it fishing, bird hunting or deer hunting, I go out fully intending to kill something to eat. No maybes about that. When I do decide to kill one, I am just making meat.

When I fish I don't tend to practice catch and release very often, but when I do, it's just something I do. I couldn't begin to explain why some go back in the water and some go in the frying pan.

Deer are sort of the same. I get to pick and choose which ones I kill, and I couldn't begin to say why some don't get shot. All the ones that do get shot are in good flesh. I do look carefully before I put one on the table. By and large I kill fawns or yearling does.

I do take great pleasure in putting prime venison on the table. I don't remember the last time I bought hamburger, and I only buy a whole sirloin the cut the way I want it, and at that, I buy precious damn little meat in the store. I much prefer eating wild meat, and I get a lot more personal satisfaction out of it on top.

I used to kill a lot more. My attitude towards the game, towards the killing, towards the eating has stayed pretty constant through all the years. I never have considered it "sport hunting". It's always been just making meat and there has always been the same satisfaction in the butchering, the packaging, and the preparation as there has been in the killing. The deer I hit with a car and turned into the best she could be last October was every bit as satisfying as the other three I killed with a rifle. Despite the fact that she was really old and really tough.

I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your candidness on the subject.

But I can't really relate...

It is true that after many years of hunting and harvesting game animals, and after expanding my hunting experiences to most of the United States and some of Africa, that my blood lust has certainly been satiated somewhat. But, I actually feel pretty much the same as I used to when I take an animal that I am truly in pursuit of. These days, it's more often than not something besides the normal deer hunt for me and this less than mundane experience probably has a lot to do with it, but I get almost as excited about a hunt as I did as a much younger and less experienced hunter.

That's just me.

+1..........

Let's see 'em.

EXACTLY! As usual, I didn't draw for elk and antelope in my home state but no big deal. In the last four years I've done a cow elk hunt on a very large private ranch. It's not a sport hunt but a cull hunt so is easy on my somewhat antique body. (75 YO) I share a guide with two friends and we have an enjoyable time of it. Me with my bad knee, another that's has open heart surgery and the third fellow was doing his first elk hunt and we've all booked again. The killing isn't really the thing but the comments Gunner made are what's important. I don't know what or how the irraddiation of store bought meat affects the human systen or if it even does at all. However, I believe that the hormones fed to livestock in order to make them gain weight is a major factor in the obesity epedemic in this country. I also believe that the antibiotics given livestock may be a causatived factor in the antibiotic resistant bacteria that is causing so much trouble today. I've dicussed this with several doctors and they happen to afree with me but as long as corporate greed rules this country, nothing will ever be done. OK, I'll get off my soapbox.
As far as the subject of this thread, I still get a touch of buck fever. It's all good until the shot and my game is on the ground. Then, I feel sadness and sometimes shed a tear. Dunno how many hunts I have left but I can always deliberately miss if I decide to call it quits.
Paul B.

Yes, the views have changed with age, but not dramatically. When I got that first BB gun I was eager and ready to hit anything that moved and some things that did not - and if that killed some small critter I was OK. It was the good aiming and scoring that counted. After the BB gun, there was a long dry period.

When, as an adult, I finally got the time and opportunity and decided to learn (mostly teach myself) about firearms and hunting, those were serious projects. I hunted in order to learn and use the needed skills and to get meat for our family. The actual killing was neither pleasure nor pain - it has been a part of a natural and important activity - but it seems that I always revered the animals and felt the need to stand there quietly for a few moments in respect.

For the past 50 years I have hunted alone most of the time, so all is very quiet. Even those few times when with the two or three great buddies that have been wonderful partners, never has there been a moment of outward celebration about a kill. There is a natural reverence involved.

We no longer need wild game meat. But we do eat it and, except to control destructive varmints, I hunt only that which we will consume. I'm old now, my remaining hunts surely are short in number, but I still rise to the challenge of being way deep out there all alone on their turf and trying to be a good hunter.

If fortunate to draw buck mule deer and/or bull elk tags for this fall, I'll be at it again. At my age the thrill of being successful is quickly tempered by the bigger challenge of getting that carcass to some two track. That task may leave me dead out there some day.

It is about death - a natural part of life - but it is not about the killing.

I"m more laid back these days at almost 50. But we like to eat deer meat and I shoot em for that.

But I don't shoot a buck unless its a trash one, or one that would go on the wall so that has slowed that down on its own just due to the fact I'm looking for old and bigger than I already have. There are plenty of does to shoot for meat and trash bucks.

Those, I pick days when all is good and I feel like cleaning one basically. Years ago I might have shot all my tags in one weekend if it all worked out. Having shot more than 1 deer a few times on each hunt on a weekend, with a bow... I'm not that mad at em anymore.

I think if you read, what I used to teach, hunter ed, about how a hunter matures it makes sense.

I see a LOT of joy watching a young or new hunter get game or helping them is even better yet.

There was this thing in teaching, said you were happy to go out, then happy to go out and shoot, then happy to go out and harvest some game, then happy to go shoot a limit, then happy to shoot a big one, then got back to the point of just happy to go out again..... seems most of us kind of follow that routine.

That being said... we've probably killed close to 300 cowbirds out the kitchen window this year. And I started trapping again to thin out the predators a bit....

I feel relief for the game.

There are only a few ways that animals die in the wild. None of then sound very fun to me.

Of all the ways that they die, getting shot through the vitals and dying quickly seems the least brutal.

Yep, I agree. As I recall he came around to the fact that his statement that day was not correct and that the 2nd did not protect hunting or sporting uses, it was for the defense of ones self and of ones beliefs and country.

I know my political beliefs changed. As a young ignorant child it seemed only right to try to help everyone you could and if they had nothing, to help them best you could.

Then as I grew up I realized, WTF, most that don't have anything don't want to try to work to get there. And why should I work overtime to simply hand them something.

And the government certainly shoudl not take my money to give to the lazy SOBs either.

I'm all for helping someone get stood up on their own and moving forward. But its a fallacy to feed and clothe them for their lives.

I see it all the time at the office. Lazy liberals sacks of .... come in can't afford their electrical bill because they have the AC on 62( I've gone to their houses and witnessed that when they complain why is the bill high) when its 110 in the shade during the day. And while they complain their Iphone rings, they are smoking cigs and have a low rider, fancy rims, on a POS car in the lot. And every last time they'll come back later or the next day with enough cash ONLY when they are about to be cut off. EVERY Fuggin month.

Liberalism is a disease. Most of us lean that way when young, but a lot of us finally get our head out of the stink hole and grow up and realize what a plague on society the liberals are.

I have never understood the expression "Sport Hunting" What the heck is that.

I don't kill any animal that I am not going to eat, except maybe a coyote that thinks my chickens or family pets are his to eat.

I have killed a fair number of prarie dogs, but that being because the farmer wanting them out of his pasture. I never could see the glee in making them red mists as others jump around about. If it was legal I would have poisoned them.

I enjoy getting out and being in the wilderness which is where I usually hunt. I enjoy camping and all that goes with it, although I like the cold less and less. I have killed enough elk in my life that I don't need to kill another one, but once I amount hunting, I do my best to fill my tag. For me,I either spend $800 or so on hunting or about the same if I have to buy a half of beef. I like the elk meat better.

The thing that has changed with me is that when young if I didn't fill my tag, I felt I had failed and was miserable for a month after the season. Now it doesn't bother me.

I have killed farm animals most of my life to eat and killing a elk or deer is about the same to me.

One thing for sure, I sure as heck don't "harvest' them

For me it's more the experience.
Hard to explain but I feel a need to get in touch with something from the past we've lost in our modernized world. I puts me in touch with nature and some long lost ancestral pursuit that was a necessity to survival. I enjoy the woodcraft, skills, camping, hiking, stalking, matching wits against an animal in his element...everything about the hunt. It's about THE HUNT. I don't NEED to hunt for the meat. I just NEED to hunt for the sake of hunting. The actual taking of life isn't something I like, but without it, all the rest doesn't make much sense. I feel a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment and appreciation for that which has been provided, and I feel a bit of sadness for the animal.

Even processing and packaging all the meat myself is part of the equation.
It's actually difficult to explain, and to a non-hunter, impossible. I imagine some of you understand what I'm having a difficult time putting into words.

In a nutshell, it's not about killing but without the killing it doesn't make sense.

See these guys in this picture? This is from a time that will never be again but for some reason I feel some kindred connectedness to in some manner be like them and hunting from time to time is the closest thing I can do to connect.
I know, crazy huh?

Nope. It means you came from somewhere and your going somewhere and you are smart enough to realize it and the need to fit in as a tooth on the gear that drives things from here to eternity.

Much unlike the case of a libturd [bleep], wasting their life away worrying about CO2 and how to steal a living from you.

wow what a thread, I started hunting when I was about 11yrs old, I would come home from school and grab my Ben Pearson fiberglass bow and my Montgomery Wards wooden arrows and hunt till dark... hunted up till last year ,killed a nice 10pt in Texas and as I walked up to him he was still breathing and I watched him die, I'm a retired LEO and I've seen/ watched people die but something clicked, my brother walked up and was admiring the deer and I told him it was my last and it was.. I just got into traditional archery and when I get good enough I will kill 3D targets and I still enjoy IDPA but for ME hunting is over.

Just an observation but ...

There's a lot of posts I wholeheartedly agree with and it does seem that people's/hunter's attitudes do change over time.

I wish I had the pleasure of hunting with some of you guys rather the crew I'm currently hooked up with. A good generalized description of them would be "sport hunters".

It seems hunting and fishing is part of my DNA. Genesis 1:28 probably explains it best.

One thing I ponder once in awhile is: if I quit hunting and fishing what would I call my cabin? Bird watching camp?

That's not really "hunting", but stone cold killing. There is a difference.

Would be "bird watching camp" be such a bad thing?

The older I get the more I like watching birds.

I used to want to kill 'em all (especially the doves ... figuratively speaking) but now I sit on an the porch and whistle to the robins and coo to the doves.

I know. Call me crazy.

bcraig;
Thanks for the thought provoking thread sir and thanks too for the thoughtful replies provided by so many here.

Like many of us here I started hunting at about 5 or 6 and will be 52 when this fall's season is upon me.

I've never considered meat hunting a sport - somehow when something is dying I've got a tough time reconciling it as "sport" if that makes any sense?

For me the hunt - and by extension - the kill - is very much what keeps me connected with the natural world. By doing so I can remain a participant in the ecosystem I love, not a mere observer that a non-predator must remain.

Somehow I need that grounding, that connection with my food which will sustain me and my family in order to help keep my focus where it needs to be.

As far as feeling joy in killing, well honestly I still do feel a thankfulness and satisfaction in knowing that I am still a participant - an active predator if you will.

When I stop feeling that, I do believe I'll quit hunting alright, but I hope and pray its many, many seasons down the road for me.

Thanks again for the thoughts tonight folks and Happy Easter to you all.

Dwayne

I'm right there with you after 59 years of hunting come this season.

I love to hunt, but the killing part of it is closer to a Hobson's Choice each successive season. Some season in the near future I just might leave that closest horse to the door and walk away.

Faced with creaking joints and a growing aversion to delving into a carcass in the dark, cold and wet, I let a lot more late in day deer walk away now than I ever did. But I am always glad to be there to see them with a gun in hand.

As a rule I don't use tree stands or feed plots or other bait so most of those I see are because I know the terrain I hunt and ambush them where and when they move. Those deer that pop up out of nowhere usually see or hear me as I'm snooping around and go into after burner. That is not me giving them a pass that's just them beating me.

I love that game and recognize the killing as the logical end and point of it all. The whole endeavor would be meaningless w/o the end game mix of sorrow -- not regret -- and elation at taking part in a cycle as old as time and 'truer' than the empty satisfactions of modern gadget-based life. The venison on the table seals the deal.

1B

I still go hunting each year but i don't feel the need to shoot just any deer that comes by.

If MR. big comes out so be it,till the last weekend of the season then i will shoot one for the fridge.
Varmints will get shot when they come on the place and go after our animals.

Doves get the best for a few hunts then i just watch.

Now turkeys are another matter,i would match wits those wiley citters any day.

And the worst is having someone from town throw out their dogs on the farm,would rather shoot them than the dogs.

Seems like after having a near death experience makes one just want to get up early and sit a stand and watch what happens in the woods.
It never bothered me if the tags went unfilled.

1B: """I love that game and recognize the killing as the logical end and point of it all. The whole endeavor would be meaningless w/o the end game mix of sorrow -- not regret -- and elation at taking part in a cycle as old as time and 'truer' than the empty satisfactions of modern gadget-based life. The venison on the table seals the deal."""

This is expressed perfectly. Ive been saying it for years, just never this incredibly well.

Beautiful.

Having shot Kangaroo's for a living for a number of years I can honestly say that I will be very pleased to not have to kill another, I have just recently found that my interest in hunting deer has returned, but only in the mountains on foot, and if I do not shoot any I don't care so long as I am in the mountains.

Though what you said is true, I did see you celebrate a tad when this barking bastard breathed his last.

Or am I remembering it all wrong?

Same here. Your thoughts echo mine. I am a big gun nut/collector, but the killing part is over.

I think some have done that FH.

Strangely, she's not concerned about all her friends who feel anyone who has ever killed anything should be strung up to die.

Great thread. For me, the progression was backwards, in that the first deer I ever shot was almost the last. I was 18, and shot a doe at about 10 yards. She took a few seconds to die, and cried and moaned while she was expiring. It took me a long while to get over the pain of reliving that experience, I can tell you. In retrospect, it was probably a good thing, because it taught me to deeply respect other living creatures and to be cautious and discerning about taking a life - a lesson that most 18-year olds take longer to learn.

I get no great pleasure from watching any animal die. I see the killing as a necessary last step in a successful hunt, but the experience is secondary to the both the thrill of being in the outdoors and the challenge of trying to become part the natural world. And ... it almost goes without saying, I'm a meat hunter.

Just had roasted elk tenderloin tonight with mashed potatoes, gravy, and asparagus. Made the killing worthwhile.

There is something deeply satisfying about growing your own food, catching your own fish, and shooting your own meat.

Yes. As we have gotten further and further away from our connection to the land and nature, this lesson of humility, place, and power has been lost.

Hence, I feel, greater levels of violence we see. I think its true what they say, in many different ways: guns make for polite society.

The "killing" is also beneficial for a young mans development. Im not saying one absolutely has to, just that after you spill alittle blood, it speeds and affirms the maturation process some.. As an ancient gender role confirmed perhaps. Like your first sexual encounter. You'll never be quite the same.

Its missing for most young boys today. They too politely turn away, or turn up their nose or see it as barbaric, when there is comfort, strength, and a deep lesson to be gained knowing you can conquer what makes you a bit fearful or sick. Pushing through to greater personal growth, and emotional strength.

Or, not.

I am in total agreement with Steelhead.

Genesis 9 - God�s Covenant with Noah and Creation

A. God�s covenant and instructions to Noah.

1. (1-4) Instructions for living in a new world.

So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: �Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.�

a. Be fruitful and multiply: The world Noah entered from the ark was significantly different from the world he knew before. God gave Noah the same kind of mandate He gave Adam in the beginning of creation (Genesis 1:28), since Noah essentially began all over again.

b. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you: And, even as Adam received instructions for eating (Genesis 1:29-30, 2:15-17), so does Noah. Yet now, Noah receives specific permission to eat animals, permission Adam was not given (as far as we know).

i. Perhaps this was because the earth was less productive agriculturally after the flood, because of the ecological changes. Therefore God gave man permission to eat meat.

c. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth: If man now ate animals, then God would help the animals. For their protection God put in them a fear of mankind.

i. Again, presumably before the flood, man had a completely different relationship with the animals. God did not put this fear in animals because man did not look to them as food.

ii. �Did the horse know his own strength, and the weakness of the miserable wretch who unmercifully rides, drives, whips, goads, and oppresses him, would he not with one stroke of his hoof destroy his tyrant possessor? But while God hides these things from him he impresses his mind with the fear of his owner, so that ... he is trained up for, and employed in, the most useful and important purposes.� (Clarke)

d. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood: God also commands Noah that if animals are eaten, there must be a proper respect for the blood, which represents the life principle in the animal (Leviticus 17:11, 17:14 and Deuteronomy 12:23).

i. The importance of the idea of blood in the Bible is shown by how often the word is used. It is used 424 times in 357 separate verses (in the New King James Version).

� Blood was the sign of mercy for Israel at the first Passover (Exodus 12:13)
� Blood sealed God�s covenant with Israel (Exodus 24:8)
� Blood sanctified the altar (Exodus 29:12)
� Blood set aside the priests (Exodus 29:20)
� Blood made atonement for God�s people (Exodus 30:10)
� Blood sealed the new covenant (Matthew 26:28)
� Blood justifies us (Romans 5:9)
� Blood brings redemption (Ephesians 1:7)
� Blood brings peace with God (Colossians 1:20)
� Blood cleanses us (Hebrews 9:14 and 1 John 1:7)
� Blood gives entrance to God�s holy place (Hebrews 10:19)
� Blood sanctifies us (Hebrews 13:12)
� Blood enables us to overcome Satan (Revelation 12:11)

2. (5-7) God gives to man the right and responsibility of capital punishment.

�Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man�s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man�s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man. And as for you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth and multiply in it.�

a. Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning: According to God�s command, when a man�s blood is shed there must be an accounting for it, because in the image of God He made man. Because man is made in the image of God, his life is inherently precious and cannot be taken without giving account to God.

i. By man his blood shall be shed means because life is valuable, when murder is committed the death penalty is in order.

ii. In its original languages the Bible makes a distinction between killing and murder. Not all killing is murder, because there are cases where there is just cause for killing (self-defense, capital punishment with due process of law, killing in a just war). There are other instances where killing is accidental. This is killing, but not murder.

iii. The Bible also consistently teaches that the punishment of the guilty is the role of human government (Romans 13:1-4) so as to restrain man�s depravity. It also teaches that the guilt of unpunished murder defiles a land (Numbers 35:31-34). As Luther said, �God establishes government and gives it the sword to hold wantonness in check, lest violence and other sins proceed without limit.� (Boice)

b. From the hand of every beast I will require it: To see the strength of God�s command, He even requires a reckoning for the life of man from every beast. God does not condone unlawful killing of any kind.

c. Be fruitful and multiply: This point was repeated because it needed emphasis. The earth badly needed repopulating.

A summer working in a slaughter house would cure that.

I've hunted now for 55 years,lots of things have fell to my guns over that time. At first some were killed just to see them die, later they were killed as trophies, and later killed for their meat
About 15 years ago the killing lust left me and the joy of being outdoors usually with my son moved into my spirit. I still share the excitement of opening day deer season, but usually draw a bead on the deer and go bang under my breath. I'll still shoot a nice buck if I see one, but around here that's not going to happen.
About the same time I finally figured out that my joy was shooting and not killing. So I found my self getting involved in trap shooting, now I can kill 300 birds a day and never have to worry about cleaning or eating them
During my hunting career I'd shoot maybe 10 shots, 9 at targets and 1 at an animal, and my shooting season would last two weeks.
Now I shoot 16,000 times a year and my shooting season is about 10 months long.
I do believe age has a lot to with it and pushing 70 has taken it's toll on how many days are spent in the woods.

That was revenge

Whole different set of rules there.

It's why possums exist.

I have come to the same place as you, bcraig. In fact, I'm probably worse.

I'm not anti hunting and may have to kill in order to survive but that's the only reason I'll kill. I find that I have less and less patience with the "trophy hunter". My ego does not require or demand that I kill something in order to validate my existence.

I was building a rifle for a customer and he said, "If I see a monster deer beside the road I'll shoot him, cut his horns off and leave him there." I didn't even want to finish his rifle and will never do another for him under any circumstances.

A well known barrel maker was in the habit of setting up a Barr & Stroud rangefinder and shooting elk at over 1200 yards. I'll never buy one of his barrels. Anybody who uses a magnificent animal for target practice is beneath contempt. In the time of flight of the bullet at that distance the animal can take one step and turn a heart shot into a gut shot. If the animal is across a canyon you know the "hunter" won't make that trek just to verify a kill.

+1. You should do it yourself, if for no other reason than to know what's involved.

And if you decide not to, that's fine, as long as it's your choice and not someone else telling you that killing is wrong. Killing is the way of nature.

I love killing schit.



Travis

I generally like your posts and this hasn't disappointed.

Sure my view has changed. When I was young and inexperienced, I wanted to be "as good as the older guys". I can remember my first pheasant, first deer, first trout like it was yesterday. As a matter of fact I'l bet I can account for EVERY animal story over the years. Now, I have a hard time convincing my son that it isn't "important" for ME to kill something as it is for me to WATCH someone else succeed. That being said, I hunt and fish as often as I can. I hardly EVER "pass" on an animal that I have hunted for. If I happen on an animal that I was not hunting I may or may not decide to pass on it. My heart still pounds and I get excited as the devil when I decide to shoot or when I have a big fish on the line. I guess the bottom line is that I look upon my chosen sport with more maturity that I did before. If I die, I would like to die while hunting or fishing. If that happens, I will die a happy man.

yeah, I do way more hunting than killing these days, but I do kill. At my core I'm a hunter and fisherman but I do not hunt so that I might kill. But, I am keenly aware killing is part of hunting.

Let me offer a couple of comments. Just the other side of the coin.
Someone that kills to cut off antlers and go on, is a poacher, game thief, and should be convicted of such. NOT a hunter. Or a trophy hunter. Period.

To me anyway. Trophy hunting to me is hunting a specific animal, and that one may have big antlers or none at all. Instead of just shooting what comes along, I try, at times, to be specific for whatever reason. Not to orphan fawns even though they will survive. To put antlers on the wall. To help cleanse the gene pool. To not let an older animal suffer. To put sausage in the freezer etc... many reasons for being specific.

Re the long range, everything has time of flight. And that time of flight can be micro seconds or seconds. ANYTHING can move at any time and screw up a shot. IMHO more close range ones are screwed because more are attempted. And more long range ones work because of the ability of the folks, they KNOW about things like time of flight, and whats good or bad... Typically a prepared long range shooter will pass on many shots, but the ones they take are as close to 100% as you can get.

As to going to check, if the guy was setting up a Barr and Stoud, he'll go find the game after he shoots.

Now OTOH how many bubbas out there hunt with a boresighted (or not) never fired walmart gun and ammo and are so convinced that if they hit the deer its going to knock it over, that if they get a shot, even at 100 yards or less adn the deer runs off, they won't even go look. ...
My long was 802... up a mountain. Took us over an hour to get up to the location to find the caribou. Would not have done it any other way, IE not going to look.

I"m not arguing so much as giving another point of view.

But in the end I don't have to kill to feel successful now either. As a youth I did. But now I feel remiss if I dont', just because of the lack of fresh and dry sausage...

Jeff

I have stopped leasing property annually for hunting. I have many big game rifles & less will to use them. My intention is to pay for a guided hunt when I get the notion. And, that is not nearly as often as in earlier years.

Looking so forward to my custom rifle build finishing up soon. I enjoy shooting targets immensely, even with typical hunting rifles.

I grew up where we raised our own animals then killed them. The raising was a long process and hard work... killing in whatever method was easy and also an end to raising... then processing was more work and a job needing done right.

Hunting is the same, the hunt is a long process including scouting and previous experience... killing is easy.

I don't raise animals anymore and there may come a time I don't kill anymore... but I'll hunt for as long as I can get out.

Kent

My views on killing have not changed much. I never went in for a lot of it. What I killed, where,and how were always a lot more important than tallying carcasses,and I have walked away from lots of opportunities for various reasons.

I have taken part in selective hunting and burned a lot of tags in the process.Most of that was trip-specific,and sticking to standards, win or lose.

In those instances I really missed the meat, which has always been important. But I generally got what I needed elsewhere,and never felt cheated that I came back without an animal.

Observing wildlife without the imperative to kill is a nice activity, but lacks the same levels of intensity, awareness,and attention to detail; it does not drive you to more out of the way places,rougher country, more remote,than the casual observer.Consequently, you do not ever learn as much about the animals,nor see the country exactly the same way.

Interacting with wildlife on a predator/prey relationship involves more intense involvement....it isn't necessary to kill to bring it all to fruition....you always have the option of taking a pass when the time comes. But the opportunity to kill has to be present, if it's "hunting". If it isn't, the activity is something else.

I don't kill possums in the yard to kill possums in the yard. It is as simple as making groceries and I'd sooner eat venison. I don't see that changing and will continue on.

Luckily for people supermarkets abound, it allows them to be introspective and caring...

when i was about 8, i brought home a songbird i had shot with a bb gun. That lead to a azzwhupping by my father for killing something for no purpose, and a one year restriction on the bb gun. I have never been a sport hunter, just what they would call a meat hunter. And even that has gotten harder to do as i have gotten old. I will go again for elk this fall, mainly cause i like elk to eat, but it is not done easily or without respect for the elk. I have always said a little prayer over them, thanking the Gods or God for sending them my way, and they would be used properly. I understand it is part of the process, and ultimately a lot better than how that fast food hamburger is obtained.
Having said that, I am always reminded in these types of conversations of a Edward Albey quote, which i will somewhat paraphrase. He said a young man with out blood lust, probably isn't much of a man, but an older man that still has the blood lust isn't much of a man. I tend to agree with this. It's enough to go out and chase them anymore, I don't have to prove myself by killing anything.

Well, although I almost strictly hunt for trophy animals anymore (with a couple of exceptions), when I go hunting I have every intention of killing something, and I don't see that changing. I also wholeheartedly agree with SH's analogy.

[quote=RoninPhx]when i was about 8, i brought home a songbird i had shot with a bb gun. That lead to a azzwhupping by my father for killing something for no purpose, and a one year restriction on the bb gun. I have never been a sport hunter, just what they would call a meat hunter. And even that has gotten harder to do as i have gotten old. I will go again for elk this fall, mainly cause i like elk to eat, but it is not done easily or without respect for the elk. I have always said a little prayer over them, thanking the Gods or God for sending them my way, and they would be used properly. I understand it is part of the process, and ultimately a lot better than how that fast food hamburger is obtained.
Having said that, I am always reminded in these types of conversations of a Edward Albey quote, which i will somewhat paraphrase. He said a young man with out blood lust, probably isn't much of a man, but an older man that still has the blood lust isn't much of a man. I tend to agree with this. It's enough to go out and chase them anymore, I don't have to prove myself by killing anything.[/quote

I would have thought you were learning how to hunt and shoot and be a provider. As such, he should have been proud of you for accomplishing the feat on your own. A good bird dog starts with lizards and butterflies.

Don't kill as voraciously as I used to.

Exactly. And it allows people to feel superior for not doing the killing themselves. Which is ass-backwards.

Right, and what did the news paper clipping say?

'Hunters suck, they should go to the grocery store where the meat is made'

Stupid people really need to stop screwing.

Gunner

Me too. With the exception of coyotes, cottonmouths, crows, and hogs, I don't shoot much these days that I don't plan to eat. I think part of that has come from getting older, while another part has come from hunting with my young children, as they love watching all the critters. I don't even shoot armadillos anymore, unless they are causing a problem. I'm more of a meat hunter these days than I ever was.

My views on hunting haven't changed a whole lot over the years but I certainly do appreciate the time I get to spend in the woods a whole lot more.

I use to love watching hunting videos but anymore, I just can't stomach watching some buffoon wound an animal and then celebrate while it lays there struggling to survive.

I don't take risky shots either, if I don't think I can get close enough to kill an animal quickly then I simply don't shoot it.

Too many hunters these days only care about putting another notch in their trophy belt, instead of caring more on how it's harvested.

That.

When I was younger I'd kill just to kill like songbirds & rodents & such.

Today I kill only what I eat (with coyotes & woodchucks as exceptions) and never kill non-game animals. I occasionally let game animals and even the occasional varmint walk, and my sons & I even love bird watching as a pastime in & of itself.

I absolutely love to hunt and to put bullets into things. I'm not the greatest at it and I don't know it all, but I love it. I love the physical strain of it, I love putting bullets through meat, I love getting bloody, I love cutting up meat and putting it in a pack, I love dragging dead schit up hill, I love dragging dead schit down hill, and the further I am from the truck, the happier I am, typically....

I love taking other people hunting. My favorite part of it isn't lunch, or the sunrise, or the time spent together, or the cool, crisp, autumn air. My favorite part of it is when the bullet from their rifle sends lung and goo all over the opposite side of the animal we're after. Because to me, that's what hunting is. It's finding schit and killing it and (outside of fornicating) there is nothing more fun on this earth than finding and killing schit.

My heart still pounds when I call in a coyote. Not because I think a coyote is an amazing or majestic creature, but because I love shooting coyotes and I realize I have another opportunity to shoot one. And I become just as thrilled when I hear the "TWHACK" of a bullet as I did when I was 12 years old.

Know what my favorite part of a bird flushing is? When it catches a full dose of #5's out of my Benelli and hits the earth. How's that for romanticism?

I could shoot gophers all day every day for the rest of my life, and then shoot some more. Do I like putting bullets into those cute fuzzy critters? Yes, I do. Does it help the rancher when I shoot them? Sure it does. Do I really give a schit? No. I'm out there to shoot them because I love shooting them.

When I see a chuck sitting in a perfect spot my heart still races. And when the bullet impacts and the 'chuck goes in four different directions, I smile and thank God for inventing gun powder and primers.

When I shoot prairie dogs I love to see them explode and the higher they go into the sky, the higher my spirits are raised.

I always congratulate my fellow hunters when they have succeeded. But in all sincerity, I only do this because I was raised to be polite. The reality is I look a their picture and just wish I was the one that killed it and it motivates me to go back out and find something bigger and better to kill.

So, no. I don't think I've changed any.


Travis

Honesty at its best!

I never killed for "sport," so haven't had to change any on that.

Killing is part and parcel of any REAL life, and I hope to have lived a real life when it's all over. So, I'll keep hunting, and killing, and eating, until I die. No shame in that, ever.

Gettin' rare these days...



Travis

Jeff,
I don't think we disagree at all. I just didn't make the effort to expand my comments to include your position.

To me a hunter is a man who knows a particular animal exists and where it exists, learns its habits and matches wits and skill with the animal. Most deer "hunters" are deer shooters who just happened to be at the right place at the right time. I also agree that the average bubba you meet in the woods can't hit a refrigerator 3 shots out of 5 and 100 yards.

I've declared war on Cowbirds. I'll kill every one I have the chance at. Racoons too but the opportunities ain't as often as I'd like. I'll kill wild hogs too but my Pop killed so many the last few years of his life that there's not too many left around here anymore. But Cowbirds... They are hell on songbirds and I'm the equalizer.

+1

Excellent discussion that I really don't have a definitive answer for although I must admit to admiring Travis' eloquence. I love to hunt, always have and probably or at least I hope so, always will. I am perfectly fine with those that eschew hunting personally, just as long as their views and actions don't interfere with mine. If one is a PURE vegetarian and I mean pure, then I can see the their point to, but if you enjoy a good steak and wear leather shoes and belts, I sure hope you realize how those articles came to be.

Sure I enjoy eating the game I shoot, but frankly, I give most of it away. I am an unapologetic trophy hunter. I just enjoy the thrill the hunt gives me. And yes I pay to hunt for the most part, although this past season, save for the GREAT bird hunt I went with Hatari and Pugs, all my hunts have been DIY.

Good post and the line about bird hunting was the best part.

Seems like a lot of people over romanticise bird hunting to have a built in excuse for not having a full game bag at the end of the day.

If my dogs could talk they'd say the best part of the day is watching a pheasant get crushed by 4's and racing each other to get teeth on the cock.

Maybe it's because I'm young but if I go hunting and I'm not shooting I get disappointed.

Deflave, well said.. I knew I could count on you.. I love shooting also.. And fooling with different guns.. I am not as quick on the trigger as I used to be and let somethings pass.. But I still love hunting, and shooting..

PETA just revoked your membership...................

I hunt for the freezer, but I wouldn't hesitate to cap a trophy. Meat is meat. Not much here in the way of prairie dogs, but coyotes are fair game. Hogs, I'll shoot every one I see, not because of the desire to kill, but to control numbers. Too many of them around, and they definitely have a negative impact on the indigenous critters.

Enjoyed the prairie dog shoot a few years ago in Texas, and would do it again

Yeah but it's funny how fast they will run to a venison roast..and funnier still how fast it disappears.

I love game meat and gather it whenever I can. But I don't tell many people about it other than family.

Travis, well said, eloquently as someone put it. I feel the same way though less strongly after all the years. Particularly the more strenuous part of it but I can say that for yard work too. For example yard bunnies, squirrels and such get a pass so long as they're not causing damage because I like to watch them. But no regrets or sadness if they need to be popped, I enjoy that too.

A little introspection would be interesting, why do you feel that way? Of course not necessary but can lead you to interesting places.

Last year I killed an antelope buck, mule deer buck and bull elk - had a hell of a great time hunting them and the meat in the freezer is nice when beef is $4-5 per pound. I plan on spending plenty of time in the field again this year - I think about hunting and shooting all the time, I think it's what keeps me going. I've been doing it for 30+ years now and I have no plan to stop. Maybe when I can't get up the hill any longer I'll have to refocus my ambitions, but for now I even use it for motivation to stay in shape.

Putting some venison in the freezer has always been an enjoyable pursuit for me.

If I said that I've never felt a twinge of sorrow or guilt for my quarry before or after the hunt I'd be lying.

Denny

Because I'm normal.



Travis

Bird hunting is getting about as bad as catching a trout with a fly rod...


Travis

I'm here for you. Unless I'm not.



Travis

I hear they're having some difficulty with the shooting and release part

Younger days I'd kill more than I should, today I let game walk more than ever, and will be the first to hand a friend my rifle to let him take the shot.

Yes but they contribute lots of dollars to the Whatever the [bleep] Fund and they lease the ground so only guys carrying SxS's and people with really, really, really, expensive dogs get to participate in the harvesting of these majestic birds we all so dearly cherish...

WTF happened to sending the drunkest guys to the opposite end of the field as blockers?




Travis

you sure you weren't born or conceived in the South?

They traded the Pabst for scotch and now they just drive around until they find the prettiest cover to run their dog their wife let them get.

Somebody else trains the dog though.

If I were from the south, how would explain my ability to spell?

Think before you post, sir.


Travis

I'm pretty sure drunk guys blocking escaping game is another way to spell Midwestern November afternoon.

My best ground shot was 7 quail with one shell... guys with dogs have no idea how to sneak up on'm...

Kent

Too [bleep]' funny.

And 100% accurate...



Travis

Laughin' my ass off...



Travis

Even I have to admit this is good stuff Travis...

I quit hunting when I was around 28 years old and every year around deer season I would think about it but alwaysthought I was to busy, Last year the bug hit me again but my back got in the way with that fixed this year I plan on squirrel, rabbit, and white tail hunting. I pretty much bought everything I needed last year so I'm all set.

Not everybody is a killer. This how the grocery store's stay in business.

Slowed down and got more selective for my own hunting.
Scouting and zeroing in on specific animals.
Some success and lots of days chasing.

I love shooting, hunting, being in the woods...if I shoot a turkey or deer, all the better...won't change any.

I looked the word Deflave up. It means lowest common denominator.

That is a commonly used definition for "the south." But in the context I was using it, I was trying to convey 'south of the Mason Dixie.'



Travis

Great Falls. Saturday. Be there or be gay.



Travis

Maybe Travis, you should reconsider your sentence structure.

Maybe you should think before you post?

when the day comes that I no longer wish to pursue game,
the end of my time on this planet ,must surely be at hand.

As I age I realize that hunting is the most human activity I engage in.

I now believe that eating what you kill is simplistic nonsense, I may want to wear what I kill, or I may want to kill something because it is a pest.

I celebrate the hunt, and I make no apology for hunting, nor do I fake an understanding of those who are ignorant of the meaning, purpose, and importance of the hunt.

Last night's dinner was a wedge of cabbage, fresh carrots and a big thick moose steak and my best hunting partner shared in the feast. My WIFE................Thank you God.

Yes, and there's a word for people who eat what others have killed--scavengers.

My view has changed over the years too. I started with a blade and vee notch, but now use crosshairs and apertures rather routinely. Also use red dots which I am fond of as they do not obscure the view hardly at all.

In the area where I live we have quite a few Karen refugees from Burma. As with everyone new to this country they are very poor. They know hunger. Everything I take is given to them and I am quite the hero during hunting season. Last year it was 2 pigs, squirrels, fish, doves and a whole bunch of ducks. It is a real sense of satisfaction to know what you kill is not wasted and your helping to fill a hungry belly.

Somehow, when I was eating my filet at Ruth Chris' this past weekend I did not EVER think of myself as a scavenger. Then again, I mostly pay to hunt, including birds with expensive bird dogs and SXSs...

So I am guessing you have not purchased meat from a butcher's shop before.

Yes, and there's a word for people who eat what others have killed--consumers!

Again, lucky we have supermarkets today. They ain't been around that long but it allows the meek to continue to procreate.

All i can say about my views on killing, there are a lot of things still walking and breathing because i don't want to go to jail.

Started hunting when i was a little schit! About the only thing that has changed is better equipment. Someone has to keep the local animal population in check! Ripe ole age of 37 now and enjoy every breathing second of it! Doubt that will ever change.

I am the butcher shop. Cattle, hogs and such. That being said sometimes I have split a bovine with a neighbor that owns a shop who's wife likes my meat

I'll hate myself in the morning, but picking up some killer Ribeye steaks at the butcher today...

And just for the heck of it I shall have my wife hunt around in the local butcher shop and fetch me some marinated beef ribs for tea tonight.

Might even get her to stalk the isles at the supermarket and see if she can scare up some greens to go with them.

Congrats, you have now become the author of one of the ten dumbest things ever posted on the fire.
Careful your eyes don't permanently cross from looking down your nose at everyone that's ever bought meat at a store or restaurant.

If my flight plan to Tallahasee went anywhere Casa de Valkerie, I'd be there with a bottle of red and an appetite!

Nope.

I admit that the main reason I do very little killing anymore is age and laziness. I don't want the work that follows, and I have access to "other-than-commercial" meat anyway.

That's it.

Wherefore art thou when not?

Never will forget Paris Hilton saying,
"I don't believe in eating animals.
"DO you eat hamburger?
"Yes."
"Where do you think it comes from?"
"The grocery store, where they make it."

hahaha!
polesmoker what an idiot

Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. I can hunt without killing something and be OK with it, but I hunt with the anticipation of killing. I love being outdoors, but if I wasn't going to kill, I'd take up golf.

I love hunting. My son loves hunting. Dad even still loves to hunt and he's in his 80's. Heck of a pheasant shot still.

Have I changed? Yes, I take greater pleasure in my son filling his tag than I do in filling mine. I put his success first when we're hunting. Sometimes that means he tags game and I don't. That's fine with me.

I also don't really care very much about antler size anymore. Except I would like to put a Really Big Mulie on the wall someday. Mostly I'm just after the experience of the hunt, and of course filling the freezer with delicious venison!

Recently I've been making more of an effort to hunt with a camera. I'll likely NEVER actually draw the once-in-a-lifetime tag to hunt mountain goat, bighorn sheep or moose here in Washington, but I can sure use my camera to get them!

Oh, and yes, I shoot coyotes with great glee.

Regards, Guy

Killing is part of hunting.If I need meat I kill.If I don`t then, I am a watcher.

I don't get off on killing things.

Never have shot a rabbit or a raccoon or a squirrel. Don't think I even shot a gopher last year.


Now if something needs to be killed then I get a kick out of that for sure. But if there is no challenge......pass.


I'd just as soon shoot steel as anything else.



Unless we talking horns.... That's really why I hunt. The challenge, pure and simple.



I absolutely love to look for a nice buck, gotta see what's over the next hill......

Even as a "newbie" hunter at age 12, I felt kinda sorry for the first rabbit I ever shot... and as the years piled up and I hunted big game, I never liked the killing, but rather I liked the good (very accurate) one-shot kill. However, once the game was "down", I wished it was alive again and could get up and run away.

Then I took a fly-in moose hunting trip into an unnamed lake in the deep Canadian bush where I shot a very large bull moose with a 5-foot+ antler spread that stood 6-foot+ at the shoulder, I stood there looking down at that magnificent animal and mentally questioned "WHY?"... i.e., what was gained by this death?

As I stood there, looking down at this beautiful animal, I began to realize that this big fella had survived at least 7 or 8 frigid Canadian winters plus 'most likely attacks by wolves and possibly even attempts by a "Mr. Griz" or two to make several "meals" outta him... and then this guy (me) from Ohio, USA dropped down on the lake in a float-plane, stepped off on the shore at a hunting camp by the lake and, the next morning out of a canoe, shot & killed this moose... it suddenly all seemed ridiculous and for nothing!

I stopped hunting for several years after that... and never shot another game animal even though, 20 years later, I trekked 350 miles for the next 15 years over to my good friend's deer camp hunting out of his cozy cabin up on the High Plateau among the mountain laurel in the Moshannon State Forest in north-central Pennsylvania.

I saw a good many deer during those 15 years of going to deer camp, but never fired my rifle even though I looked through the scope at several deer, but only whispered "BANG!", but never touched the rifle's trigger.

I don't mind if other fellas still hunt and kill deer or other game... but after the moose, the killing stopped being something I wanted to do although I truly enjoyed my time-in-the-woods and the camaraderie of hunting camp.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

As I've gotten older I've become more uncomfortable about killing animals simply for the fun of killing them.

So now I just wound them...

I trophy hunt in order to keep from screwing up the hunt with a loud noise and messed up morning. I trophy hunt to let bucks have many years to spread their genes. I trophy hunt because I love to hunt, but not kill things.

Finally in Jan and Feb this year I 'shot' a couple of does because the game dept said the ranch had 35 too many for the welfare of the property.

Most years I may see a 150-300 deer. I haven't killed a buck in 4 years.

When I do kill one, he'll have had plenty of opportunity to have spread his genes around. He will be getting old with no dentist or dr or nursing home. He will have died quickly and not been starved down, before the coyotes fed on him a while before he fell to the ground.

My kill rate went way down�THUD! when I laid down my rifles and picked up a longbow.

And it didn�t bother me a bit. Gave me more time and places to hunt.

Not to say that I do not pick the guns back up from time to time.

Nice to have the skills that give me the choice.
And grandkids to do it with.

BOOM - Whap, Music to my ears - don't know what to tell you fellas but I love it! I like planning for it all year, practicing shooting, stalking, hiking and taking a good shot at an unsuspecting critter tops it off. I even like packing them out.