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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
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I must be shooting the wrong bullets. Haven't recovered 1 in over 10 years. Darned Barnes! I seldom recover one, but I will say the hides on those Waterbucks are real thick! Combine that with a bullet that expanded to over .7" and pushing through bone entering and exiting and then hitting the off-side hide is going to be a tough challenge.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Blacktailer,
If you haven't recovered any Barnes bullets, then you haven't shot a lot of game--or have used bigger bullets.
They do penetrate deeply, but they aren't magic. In fact, I analyzed the notes from my hunting a couple years ago, and have recovered a higher percentage of "monolithic" rifle bullets than Nosler Partitions, whether TSX's, E-Tips, or whatever. This may be due to using somewhat lighter monos than Partitions, but may not.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
In my limited experience with the 160s and 185s, I'd say the 185 definitely penetrates a bit better, but the internal damage by the 160 seems a bit more impressive. Both result in very dead animals. Looking forward to using a Partition on elk this Fall.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17 |
My limited experience on 12 head of African game. These are the only bullets caught from my 7RM w/160 accubonds, 71.5 Retumbo going 3100 @ the muzzle. Shots from 100-160 yards or so. One shot kills except for one oryx. I could't have asked for much better performance. [img:left] [/img] [img:left] [/img]
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
300 WSM, 180 gr. If you're trying to save on the high price of premium bullets, I find that Speer Hotcores perform much better, better penetration and weight retention than AB's. I've shot at least 7 or 8 elk with Hotcores and in my experience, they hold up about as well as Partitions. Hot Core isn't even in the same league as a Nosler Ballistic Tip and a Accubond is tougher than a BT.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,688 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,688 Likes: 5 |
Very cool; thanks for taking the time for this!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24 |
300 WSM, 180 gr. If you're trying to save on the high price of premium bullets, I find that Speer Hotcores perform much better, better penetration and weight retention than AB's. I've shot at least 7 or 8 elk with Hotcores and in my experience, they hold up about as well as Partitions. Hot Core isn't even in the same league as a Nosler Ballistic Tip and a Accubond is tougher than a BT. I haven't used Ballistic Tips on elk because Nosler makes them for deer sized stuff. They make the PT & AB for elk & moose. From their website: Game Recommendations:
Hogs, Antelope, Deer
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I have used BT's on elk. Specifically the 30 cal180gr BT and at speeds much faster than. WSM. Works very well, even on bone. It also has the same jacket as the 180 AB minus the bonding.. It's funny you slam AB's but pump Hotcores which are one of the most fragile cup and cores out there.
Last edited by BWalker; 07/03/14.
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
Blacktailer,
If you haven't recovered any Barnes bullets, then you haven't shot a lot of game--or have used bigger bullets.
They do penetrate deeply, but they aren't magic. In fact, I analyzed the notes from my hunting a couple years ago, and have recovered a higher percentage of "monolithic" rifle bullets than Nosler Partitions, whether TSX's, E-Tips, or whatever. This may be due to using somewhat lighter monos than Partitions, but may not. Not me, I have recovered fewer TSX than lead cores including partitions. Just goes to show that there are no absolutes.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
300 WSM, 180 gr. If you're trying to save on the high price of premium bullets, I find that Speer Hotcores perform much better, better penetration and weight retention than AB's. I've shot at least 7 or 8 elk with Hotcores and in my experience, they hold up about as well as Partitions. Hot Core isn't even in the same league as a Nosler Ballistic Tip and a Accubond is tougher than a BT. How is that? An Accubond is a bonded Ballistic Tip is it not?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24 |
I've shot a number of elk with both the AB and the Hotcore. There's no comparison to how well they hold up. The Hotcores will roll up in a ball but the weight is still there. The AB's come apart.
Last fall I got my hands on a bunch of Deep Curls. I shot 1 elk with one but I spined it and that's not a good test of what they will do. I'll be using them this year, too. I have about 250 of them left and when they're gone, they can't be replaced.
Last edited by Rock Chuck; 07/04/14.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,295 Likes: 17 |
I've shot a number of elk with both the AB and the Hotcore. There's no comparison to how well they hold up. The Hotcores will roll up in a ball but the weight is still there. The AB's come apart.
IME, only about 40% of an accubond, or partition for that matter, "come apart". Just the way they were designed. As long as there are Noslers being sold I will never see the need for anything Speer.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24 |
If you look at the OP's pics, you'll see AB's with nothing but the jacket. The core is completely gone. That's what I've seen when I've used them.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Rock Chuck,
Go back and look again. The ones with the core missing are Bergers.
AccuBonds, like Partitions, are designed to retain differing amounts of weight, depending on the bullet's intended purpose. In general the bigger they get, the higher the % retained. Small AB's usually used for deer may retain only 50% or so, while heavy ones may retain 80%. In my collection is a 250-grain 9.3 AccuBond recovered from a grizzly that retained 83%.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,712 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,712 Likes: 2 |
If you reread BBergs post, he said that is how AB's and Bergers typically look. I'd be willing to bet the one that just looks like a jacket is the Berger. BBerg will have to answer that though.
The 160 AB pic that he posted, looks pretty much identical to all the AB's I've ever caught. Never had one come apart even when shooting them at over 3000 fps into dry newsprint at 20 yards.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,648 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,648 Likes: 7 |
Here are a couple of .375 cal 270gr triple shocks recovered from a Gemsbok....you don't recover many but most look like this.... EXACTLY why is use T/TSXs almost exclusively now.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,123 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,123 Likes: 4 |
Please explain the logic used to get from point A... I haven't used Ballistic Tips on elk because Nosler makes them for deer sized stuff. They make the PT & AB for elk & moose. From their website: Game Recommendations:
Hogs, Antelope, Deer To point B, given Federal touts the Fusion as a deer bullet. Last fall I got my hands on a bunch of Deep Curls. I shot 1 elk with one but I spined it and that's not a good test of what they will do. I'll be using them this year, too. I have about 250 of them left and when they're gone, they can't be replaced.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,019 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,019 Likes: 1 |
Blacktailer,
If you haven't recovered any Barnes bullets, then you haven't shot a lot of game--or have used bigger bullets.
They do penetrate deeply, but they aren't magic. In fact, I analyzed the notes from my hunting a couple years ago, and have recovered a higher percentage of "monolithic" rifle bullets than Nosler Partitions, whether TSX's, E-Tips, or whatever. This may be due to using somewhat lighter monos than Partitions, but may not. Not me, I have recovered fewer TSX than lead cores including partitions. Just goes to show that there are no absolutes. I do use heavier bullets than most. In Africa 300's or 350's in the 375 and 165's in the 308 and I only use the 308 on the smaller stuff when Mrs Blacktailer lets me barrow it. In NA I also tend to go heavy. I like penetration!
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,520 Likes: 24 |
To point B, given Federal touts the Fusion as a deer bullet. Federal might say that Fusions are for deer but Speer advertizes the Deep Curl as all around and that's what I've gone by. As far as the OP's pics of the hollow jacket being the Berger, not the AB, the AB's that I've recovered have come out being the hollow jackets. I'm just going by my own personal experience. Over the last 40 years, I've used a lot of Hotcores, a number of AB's, a few PTs, and 1 single Deep curl on elk. Of the one's that I've recovered, the Hotcores and PT's have penetrated almost the same and have looked about alike with similar weight retention. The AB's have consistently come apart or lost 50% or more of their weight along with massive meat loss. The 1 single Deep Curl hit a spine so it wasn't a good test. Any bullet will drop an elk with a spine shot.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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