Here's where our differences might lie. Neither one of us know with factual certainty who has done what to whom. We are fed info from agenda driven media sources. Media, as you know, is so inherently unreliable that it's considered hearsay. In addition, we know who controls media that spoon-feeds info to us.
I want to college with a few Palestinian kids. They were exceptionally nice and polite. Of course, they came from money, but they were humble. They were all extremely well educated.
I invited them to the beach one day with another friend of mine who had graduated from what some consider West Coast Ivy League. He was a staunch supporter of Israel. He had no idea that my other friends were Palestinians. Well, the Israel guy (He was Christian.) started in on Arafat and what a criminal he was. Keep in mind that every one of our Founding Fathers would have been considered criminals had King George III prevailed. They delved into a lengthy conversation about the Israelis-Palestinian conflict. The pro-Israel guy came away with a new perspective. Later, he asked me why I didn't give him a heads up that my other friends were Palestinian. I asked him what difference it would have made if the merits of his arguments were sound.
The FACT, jorge, is we have no clue of what are facts. We know only what media feeds us. And let's not forget who owns most if not all media. In other words, we're fed a one-sided story, and we are expected to buy in to it. Where conflict is concerned, I'm skeptical by nature, and I know that there are two sides to every conflict, neither side is always reliable.
I know what European countries did to Asian and African countries. They colonized, redrew boundaries, and forced peoples who didn't get along to merge together in order to facilitate stealing natural resources to fuel their emerging industrial economies. European countries imposed hegemony upon former sovereign countries and forced them to change their cultures and religions in order to force them to acquiesce to the theft of their natural resources all the while calling it progress and civilizing peoples and cultures according to their definitions of civilization and culture. De facto slavery of indigenous peoples and forcing them to extract their natural resources for the benefit of European countries does not sound civilized to me.
I also know Sykes-Picot. That was nothing more that forced hegemony of Middle Eastern countries. Sykes-Picot facilitated Zionism. I know that the USA murdered Iran's democratically elected Premier Mohammed Mosaddeq and imposed the shah upon Iranians, and we called it progress. I'm sure you can understand why Persians do not trust the USA.
I do know that Israel was founded upon terrorism by terrorists that were supported by France and Great Britain. I'm sure that there was USA assistance as well. Menachem Begin, an Ashkenazi Jew, was a wanted terrorist who bombed the King David Hotel & murdered nearly a 100 people. Israel made that terrorist its prime minister. Israel declared war on us when it attacked the USS Liberty murdering American sailors. It has repeatedly spied on us, and it an act of unmitigated hubris, wants us hand over one of its most prolific spies to it. Israel has sold sophisticated technology we gave it to protect itself to our enemies. Israel says it's our ally because it says it is. In reality, it is our proven enemy.
Google: "Venona Project" for edification of the compromising of our country by Ashkenazi Jews including passing along atomic and strategic military secrets to Stalin.
Ron Paul KNEW Middle Eastern history as well if not better than any college professor, which is why he explained that our actions in the Middle East caused predictable blowback.
jorge, you're free to believe what you want to believe, but keep in mind that belief falls woefully short of knowledge.
I do not believe anything that American and Israel media tells us. I know that there are at least two sides to every conflict. Too often Americans fall prey to being duped by the victors' versions. The victors' versions are more often than not propaganda.
I'd just as soon believe that a cornered Mojave green won't strike at me before I believe anything that Israeli and US media feeds us about Israel, and that especially includes Fox News, which is nothing more that controlled opposition.
My best,
SS
The Rosenbergs were practicing Communist. Do you have any evidence they were practicing Jews?
The Rosenbergs were citizens of what country?
They were recruited by the NKVD in 1942, but Israel wasn't formed until 1948, so how do you get that they were part of some Israeli conspiracy?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Here's where our differences might lie. Neither one of us know with factual certainty who has done what to whom. We are fed info from agenda driven media sources. Media, as you know, is so inherently unreliable that it's considered hearsay. In addition, we know who controls media that spoon-feeds info to us.
I want to college with a few Palestinian kids. They were exceptionally nice and polite. Of course, they came from money, but they were humble. They were all extremely well educated.
I invited them to the beach one day with another friend of mine who had graduated from what some consider West Coast Ivy League. He was a staunch supporter of Israel. He had no idea that my other friends were Palestinians. Well, the Israel guy (He was Christian.) started in on Arafat and what a criminal he was. Keep in mind that every one of our Founding Fathers would have been considered criminals had King George III prevailed. They delved into a lengthy conversation about the Israelis-Palestinian conflict. The pro-Israel guy came away with a new perspective. Later, he asked me why I didn't give him a heads up that my other friends were Palestinian. I asked him what difference it would have made if the merits of his arguments were sound.
The FACT, jorge, is we have no clue of what are facts. We know only what media feeds us. And let's not forget who owns most if not all media. In other words, we're fed a one-sided story, and we are expected to buy in to it. Where conflict is concerned, I'm skeptical by nature, and I know that there are two sides to every conflict, neither side is always reliable.
I know what European countries did to Asian and African countries. They colonized, redrew boundaries, and forced peoples who didn't get along to merge together in order to facilitate stealing natural resources to fuel their emerging industrial economies. European countries imposed hegemony upon former sovereign countries and forced them to change their cultures and religions in order to force them to acquiesce to the theft of their natural resources all the while calling it progress and civilizing peoples and cultures according to their definitions of civilization and culture. De facto slavery of indigenous peoples and forcing them to extract their natural resources for the benefit of European countries does not sound civilized to me.
I also know Sykes-Picot. That was nothing more that forced hegemony of Middle Eastern countries. Sykes-Picot facilitated Zionism. I know that the USA murdered Iran's democratically elected Premier Mohammed Mosaddeq and imposed the shah upon Iranians, and we called it progress. I'm sure you can understand why Persians do not trust the USA.
I do know that Israel was founded upon terrorism by terrorists that were supported by France and Great Britain. I'm sure that there was USA assistance as well. Menachem Begin, an Ashkenazi Jew, was a wanted terrorist who bombed the King David Hotel & murdered nearly a 100 people. Israel made that terrorist its prime minister. Israel declared war on us when it attacked the USS Liberty murdering American sailors. It has repeatedly spied on us, and it an act of unmitigated hubris, wants us hand over one of its most prolific spies to it. Israel has sold sophisticated technology we gave it to protect itself to our enemies. Israel says it's our ally because it says it is. In reality, it is our proven enemy.
Google: "Venona Project" for edification of the compromising of our country by Ashkenazi Jews including passing along atomic and strategic military secrets to Stalin.
Ron Paul KNEW Middle Eastern history as well if not better than any college professor, which is why he explained that our actions in the Middle East caused predictable blowback.
jorge, you're free to believe what you want to believe, but keep in mind that belief falls woefully short of knowledge.
I do not believe anything that American and Israel media tells us. I know that there are at least two sides to every conflict. Too often Americans fall prey to being duped by the victors' versions. The victors' versions are more often than not propaganda.
I'd just as soon believe that a cornered Mojave green won't strike at me before I believe anything that Israeli and US media feeds us about Israel, and that especially includes Fox News, which is nothing more that controlled opposition.
Your post has many accurate facts, but as usual, interlaced with some inconsistencies and your efforts to detract from the original posit: Israeli youths were killed JUST because they were jews and unarmed teenagers, whereas MANY (not all) of the Palestinian youths were killed as a result of their taking part in offensive operations against Israel. I am well familiarized with the whole "Jewish Problem" but here is another inconsistency you glossed over: Begin was indeed a terrorist and the bombing of the King David hotel resulted in the deaths of BRITISH subjects so your posit the Brits supported him is laughable. Now in later years when Nasser nationalized the Suez and the Brits and French invaded, they did use the Israelis to attack from the east, but allies, not hardly.
In Iran, it was the Brits who again, in an attempt to protect their oil assets (British Petroleum) were the ones who moved against the Iranians and again it was the US who supported the Iranians AGAINST the Brits, and then once the Shah was back in power we again, under Carter, undermined his government and we have the mess we have today, because we believed the Clerics would bring democracy, so your facts are exactly 180 degrees out.
I have said from the outset and as long as I have been posting here, I opposed the establishment of the state of Israel because it was going to bring nothing but trouble and the facts bear this out. I know all about jews and jewish traitors posing as Americans and their transfer of intelligence to the Soviets. I know all about the Liberty, not to mention European imperialism (which I supported and the US did their best to dissolve and we have been paying for that altruism since WWII by trying to impose our values on countries and peoples that cannot possibly grasp our way of life and government), we can digress all day long and move away from the original post and my position which is accurate and on point, and it has nothing to do with who is right and wrong, but merely the fact those Israeli kids were murdered. I am not, nor have I ever been a supporter of Israel, except in the role I specified previously, that of a buffer against the Soviets during the Cold War. I would not trust them as far as I can throw them.
As far as Ron Paul is concerned, while he was accurate and I supported him on many issues, on Foreign Policy he was and remains an altruistic dolt without a clue. Lastly you say there are two sides two every story, except of course when it comes to jews and your opinion.
It doesn't take a whole lot to figure out those three student where murdered, plain and simple and you obviously have no problem with that just because they're jews. So take it from this goym, the Israelis are there to stay and a lot more Palestinians are paying for those murders:
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
"...Israeli youths were killed JUST because they were jews and unarmed teenagers, whereas MANY (not all) of the Palestinian youths were killed as a result of their taking part in offensive operations against Israel."
Unless you have access to undisclosed information, we have no idea why three kids were killed, nor do we know who committed the killings. Further, we have no idea if any killed Palestinian youths were talking part in any criminal actions. We only know what we're told. As we know, what we're told is more often that not inaccurate.
To write that I don't care about murder, at very best, is disingenuous. However, it is none of our business. It is the business of Israel. I'm sure that its cops can perform an investigation. If I were concerned, it would be about legitimacy of due process accorded to the alleged suspects, especially if they're Palestinian. But even at that, it is not our business. As our Founding Fathers admonished, the internal affairs of another country is none of our damned business. To poke our nose where it doesn't belong, as our Founding Fathers admonished, will only cause other countries to resent us and, as Ron Paul correctly identified, blowback.
I'm good with your opinion of Paul. However, from an historical perspective, he was right on the money.
I don't care about Israel one way or another other than when it has intentionally declared war on us and has intentionally compromised our country's security. Since Israel is an apartheid government with a litany of serious human rights violations, we ought not be supporting it in any way. It doesn't need us. It has God on its side.
I think it's long past time that authentic FACTS about Israel and our taxpayers' support of it including AIPAC, which is the second most powerful lobby in Washington, are disclosed to Americans. What Americans don't seem to realize is that AIPAC uses American taxpayers' money to militate against Americans' best interests.
jorge, I don't think that we're all that far apart on this. My having been in a fact-based career for most of my professional life, I try to seek facts as distinguished from what others want me to believe, otherwise known as propaganda. If we use reason and logic, we can usually meet at where truth is found. And I believe that you and I seek truth as opposed to spurious and specious allegations and news accounts. When I first heard of the kids killed in Israel, my first thought was how anyone knew who was responsible, especially since terrorists almost always take immediate responsibility for their crimes. That didn't happen here. For all we know, the three kids could have been killed in a drug burn. I just don't know. And when others try to tell me that they do know, it arouses skepticism.
The reality, jorge, is that we might not ever know the facts of these killings. And as we know, MSM is a poor source of credible information.
Take care,
SS
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.� ***US President James Madison***
we have no idea why three kids were killed, nor do we know who committed the killings. To write that I don't care about murder, at very best, is disingenuous. http://i.imgur.com/vAi5qQ2.jpg
No idea?? and *who* and *I* am being disingenuous? that is absurd. I (and I know YOU) have seen the videos of Palestinian youths AND CHILDREN, egged on by their adults throwing anything from rocks to RPGS against Israeli targets, and so far, I've yet to see a SINGLE incident of an Israeli IED lit off in a restaurant or public transportation with the SPECIFIC mission of killing civilians. Do the Israelis kill civilians on the other side? absolutely, but as a function of collateral damage and not by specific intent.
Paul was right on the money about what? Paul's Foreign Policy savvy was about the worst I've ever seen, except maybe for the current marxist in the WH.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
we have no idea why three kids were killed, nor do we know who committed the killings. To write that I don't care about murder, at very best, is disingenuous. http://i.imgur.com/vAi5qQ2.jpg
No idea?? and *who* and *I* am being disingenuous? that is absurd. I (and I know YOU) have seen the videos of Palestinian youths AND CHILDREN, egged on by their adults throwing anything from rocks to RPGS against Israeli targets, and so far, I've yet to see a SINGLE incident of an Israeli IED lit off in a restaurant or public transportation with the SPECIFIC mission of killing civilians. Do the Israelis kill civilians on the other side? absolutely, but as a function of collateral damage and not by specific intent.
Paul was right on the money about what? Paul's Foreign Policy savvy was about the worst I've ever seen, except maybe for the current marxist in the WH.
Yep, typical liberal BS. Claim they don't know so thy can excuse evil. Considering his obvious hatred for the Jews, perhaps there is reason his initials are SS.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Unless you have access to undisclosed information, we have no idea why three kids were killed, nor do we know who committed the killings.
I can picture Valerie Jarrett saying something like that. And Nancy Pelosi, Eric Holder, both of the Clintons, and any number of left-wing American apologists for the most unforgivable kind of criminal behavior.
If you guys KNOW how the three kids in Israel were killed and who killed them, please dial me in. I'd appreciate it. And if you can tell me how you know what you know, I'd appreciate it all the more.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.� ***US President James Madison***
If you guys KNOW how the three kids in Israel were killed and who killed them, please dial me in. I'd appreciate it. And if you can tell me how you know what you know, I'd appreciate it all the more.
Don't hold your breath. As far as they're concerned, every Palestinian infant is directly responsible for it, and should thus face the consequences.
Somebody needs to kidnap Oprah and hold her hostage until after the next election. That way she can't promote the next Obama type democratic idiot. One has been enough.
If you guys KNOW how the three kids in Israel were killed and who killed them, please dial me in. I'd appreciate it. And if you can tell me how you know what you know, I'd appreciate it all the more.
Don't hold your breath. As far as they're concerned, every Palestinian infant is directly responsible for it, and should thus face the consequences.
But you know who did it, don't you, Hawkeye. Come on, don't be coy. You've spotted their work before. You know what they're capable of.
Somebody needs to kidnap Oprah and hold her hostage until after the next election. That way she can't promote the next Obama type democratic idiot. One has been enough.
Yeah, but they'd have to feed her & that could get expensive.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.� ***US President James Madison***
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