Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting why are so many guys so worried about thier caliber choice?

We gotta have something to argue about.

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People who frequent these web sites are also buying the gun mags,



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Well said. EXACTLY why I don't buy 'em either.

340mag--You hit the nail right on the head. A large amount of gunners (notice i did not say hunters) are listening to gun magazine writers (who have less time in the woods than the reader) about various calibers for each breed of game. If the HUNTER would spend as much time at the range as he does bullshiting about how big a magum he has he would be a better shot. Also if he would buy a gun that he can handle rather than some big magnum, which he is AFRAID to shoot because of the heafty recoil, he would be a better hunter. Most people buy the big magnum then shoot it 3 times before going on a very expensive hunt and think they can shoot. How WRONG they are. Most of them would be better off shooting a 270 and going to the range 3 times a month all year long and shooting 1000-1500 rounds thru the 270 and become a marksman for hunting instead of walking no-nothing.

I haven't figured out why guys "anguish" over "suitable" elk and moose calibers, myself.

I'd take any rifle from a .30/06 up to a .375 H&H Mag. using Nosler Partitions of adequate weight and stalk within 150 yards or less... preferrably "less".

It isn't that a .30/06 or a .375 H&H wouldn't kill 'em at 300 yards, it's more likely the "average" hunter would "MISS" the animal or not hit where he meant to hit at 300 yards.

If I had a .270 Win. or a .280 Rem., I wouldn't buy another rifle just for elk or moose... but I'd use a bullet that was a tad on the "heavy side" for the caliber... I.E., 150 grain Partition in the .270 or a 160 grain Partition in the .280 Remington.

For the .308 Winchester, I'd use the 165 Partition, for the .30/06, I'd use the 180 grain Partition... and for any caliber above the .30/06, I'd use any weight Partition bullet the caliber comes in.

Jus' my 2�... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

And of course most tell what kind of rifle, ammo ( if handloads, what equip.) what scope ,mounts,rings and once in a while who made the gun case. Surely there is a reason for all this info but I really don't care as I have no plan to scrap all my stuff to replace it with something that probably is not a bit better. If I thought some other equipment was better, the trade would have been made before this new article came out.
Once in a while I buy Handloader or Rifle but only after I preview it at Wall Mart. All articles do not interest me.

Nuff said......

Bigbuck
That "hunter" that you refered to in an earlier post was Bryce Towsley, I believe. If not, Bryce wrote an identical article. To make things even more humerous, he used the high energy ammo in the 333, and even more hilarious, he shot the elk in the neck vertebrae. A 22 Magnum would have worked with that shot placement.
Glad someone else saw the irony in that story.

Royce

Why? Well, because they do so little elk hunting. I live in Montana, have for most of my life. I go elk hunting every year. I plan my life so that I don't work for the 5 week rifle season.

The last two bulls I shot, we won't discuss cows since "serious " elk hunters (ie. those that have never been elk hunting) give little weight to anything that works on mear cows, were shot at under 100 yds. Frankly, a 44 magnum carbine loaded with 300gr LBT cast bullets probably would have handled either situation just fine.

My point? Well after killing or seeing quite a few elk killed by, 243's, 25-06's, 270's, 30-06's, 300WM's, 7x57's, 338WM's, 35 Whelen, 300 WBY's, and probably several other calibers I can't think of at this point. The number one factor in turning an elk into freezer wrap is SHOT PLACEMENT. Secondly, bullet construction and even that relates to shot placement. Take your 30-06 load it up with 200gr Nosler Partitions, don't chronograph the darn load. Guess what? PRACTICE. NO SH*T. PRACTICE. That's the big secret to the rifle end of the equation. Pretty boring. Also, involves work and goes against the American ideal that anything can be overcome if you spend enough money on it, especially, it seems, a lack of practice.

Learning to track, learning the habits of elk and the hunting part of it. Here's an idea that will get howels of condemnation from some quarters: Instead of spending $4K on a one week guided hunt spend $4k on several weeks hunting by yourself. God forbid you might not get anything, except some actual knowledge and experience. But what is more important? A neet rack on the wall, even though you didn't do squat to actually get it (except give someone $$$$); or maybe a cow elk that you killed after 3 weeks of effort?

I know, "Not everybody can do what you do, people have responcibilities etc, blah, blah, blah." Hunting is an expencive (either time, money or both) hobby. What are your priorities? Make up your mind and stop whinning.

See if this rings a bell or something. I'm not trying to bash gun writers; I just wonder why some of them tell us things that just are not right. Not long ago ,and again I do not remember who it was, but someone told us that he did better shooting from a portable bench than he did from a permanet concrete one. Reckon why he said that?

Maybe the mfg. gave him one. huh?

Personally, i believe that of some one is buying a brand new elk rifle, they should choose the largets caliber they can shoot well. here in az, you flat out dont get drawn for elk every year, not even cow tags! if you are going to hunt elk 2-5 years apart, why not shoot the biggest bullet you can handle well? to me, it takes the odds of something going wrong out of the equation. let me ask you all this, if you have a ,270 win. and a 338 win mag both sitting in the rifle case, you are extremly confident with each, can handle them both very well, both are sighted in ready to go with the most accurate huting load you have and both suit the conditions you are hunting who here would take the .270 over the 338? i HIGHLY doubt any one would take the smaller bore and bullet over the much larger one. it just makes sense to take the bigger one because it hits harder and is 'more effective'. personally, my elk gun is a 30-06 and i am condifent in it and all, but i am looking for a larger gun because i want there to be no doubt in my mind ' well, that elk is 150 yards out, 1/4ing away, will the 30-06 drive the bullet into the boiler room?' i want to say, man that elk is perfect! 200 yards away 1/4ing away, this 338 is going to place the bullet behind the last rib, take out the heart, lung and off side shoulder, i feel sorry for that elk'!

Yep, couldn't agree more. Practice, practice, practice with what you're going to hunt with in field conditions. Then, practice some more.

What most people should really worry about is getting in shape and physically fit enough to hunt elk.

If ya poop out 'cause you're outta shape on day 3 in the saddle below the ridge that leads to the basin where Mr. Blondie Butt lives, I don't care what kinda ultra, uber, super duper magnum ya got, someone else (Me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) is goin' home with the meat and ivory. (His rifle sure had some "purty" wood, though.)

Worry less about your caliber, learn to shoot what ya got and worry more about how many minutes you can do on a stair-stepper/elliptical/ treadmill machine.
You'll kill more elk.

First coues, I will be hunting elk this year with a 270, despite the fact that an excellent 300 WSM resides in my gunrack.

Despite your claims, a 270 with Nosler partition bullets penetrates on a quartering shot as well as anything needs to. I have shot two elk, the closest at 225 yds, quartering toward and found the bullet lodged in the opposite hip, breaking the hipbone. You don't need more than that.


A good marksman will be eating tenderloin every year if he shoots a rifle in the 270-30-06 class, and never wonder why he needs more. There are several examples on this message board.

did i ever say that a lesser gun would penetrate less? i said that most would choose the bigger because it has the higher chanves of going deeper and hitting harder. if you carry ur 270 over a 300wsm, sweet good for you. i personally dont understand why that is if both guns shoot well and you are confident in both unless the 270 is your good luck charm or ust your 'always carry' elk rifle. bigger bullet allows for a larger margin of error. were human, we make errors.

That's it right there.Good marksman whom is used to huffin and puffin and shooting at the same time.My dad still gives me guff on having a .300 Win Mag when we both and my Grandfather killed Elk every year with the little .270.I had to add a rifle for the growing kids and the .300 was a buy I could not pass up and that's the only reason I moved up in caliber.

Jayco

sakoluvr,
"Practice, practice, practice with what you're going to hunt with in field conditions. Then, practice some more.

What most people should really worry about is getting in shape and physically fit enough to hunt elk.

If ya poop out 'cause you're outta shape on day 3 in the saddle below the ridge that leads to the basin where Mr. Blondie Butt lives, I don't care what kinda ultra, uber, super duper magnum ya got, someone else (Me ) is goin' home with the meat and ivory. (His rifle sure had some "purty" wood, though.)

Worry less about your caliber, learn to shoot what ya got and worry more about how many minutes you can do on a stair-stepper/elliptical/ treadmill machine.
You'll kill more elk. "
+10..

and I'd add that more time spent learning the country, watching, studying ALL the game and birds there and how that little world operates-interacts to itself and to 'intruders' will be far more beneficial to the successful hunter than agonizing over which bullet to choose..:) jim

heheh funny post really.. Sorta been over and over this sorta thing but hey I like this stuff makes me feel good to say it from time to time...

there is no substitute for good marksmanship. That doesn't mean M.O.P.P. ( minute of pie plate ) spending the first 1/4 of my life in PA there is a strong tradition of hunting camps for whitetail I spend many a time at other camps during my time as a youth and the majority if my time as a young man into adulthood at our camp. It was always funny to me that year after year I'd see the old timers and even some of our new guys break out the same exact box of cartridges that they did the year previous. It amazed me that if at 25 -50 yards they hit a paper plate the said they were good to go.
Over the years I learned to reload and became an accuracy nut, rather overly anal about hitting 1/4 sized targets at 100 yards with factory rifles. As time went on I became fortunate enough to afford custom rifles and accuracy improved from there. However, if I wasn't shooting I was reading, researching and the majority of my time was spent in the mountains around our hunting camp learning all I could about the terrain, animals in our area and their habits. This alone was way more important that the caliber of rifle I selected.
Looking back now remembering my grandfather who always used and never owned anything but.. A lever action Win. 30-30 He reloaded his own cartridges and used open sights nothing else. But he could hit a 50 cent piece at 100 yards with it. I also remember him being with me more often that not as I explored the mountains around camp. We never really spoke much as we explored but now that I think back about how we wondered through the mountains he always had certain areas we'd walk through and certain places we would stop more than others to inspect or explore more. Thinking back it was his way for me to "learn" on my own the things he already knew. he just wanted me to figure it out for me.
My point is nearly any centerfire rifle will effectively kill NA big game. However, without accuracy there are not a lot of rifles that are suited.
Power does not make up for poor excuses or poor preparation.
Prior to guiding the hunters we have we recheck their zero's from a bench. If all is well more often than not I will ask them to shoot from sticks or their backpack. I would say 70% of the time I get this dumbfounded look like "you want me to do what?"
It amazes me that clients spending from $2700-$4400 have not even begun to prepare themselves for actual hunting circumstances. I bet 95% of the clients I have guided couldn't shoot from a kneeling position and hit a pieplate at 100 yards.
I also have found that most have magnumitis. If most of them would dryfire ( unknown to them ) on an empty chamber. They would spook every Elk withing 500 yards of them due to their flinching.
My point is pcik a suitable caliber but take the time to learn it well. Learn is trajectory to 500 yards. Then shoot it in various conditons. Then shoot it from various "real world" hunting situations. Then once you have learned all that. Shoot the rifle once a week or at least once every other week. Then spend all your extra time learning about the species you are hunting and if possible spend as much time as you can in the area you are hunting.
Now comes the "getting in shape thing" I know of no real Good Elk or Muley areas that are flat.. flat like the local track at your local highschool... It is really suprizing to me that most clients are proud that they have been walkting 5 miles every other day. However, they have walked on flat ground. Useless really.
My suggestion is, get in reasonable shape. Then to fine tune your fitness. Load your pack like you would for hunting. Go to your local track. Then start walking around the track. When you get to one side of the bleachers walk to the top of the stands then down... get back on the track and walk to the other side bleachers. Then walk to the top of them and down.. repeat this for 5 miles. Now you're closer to the shape the guide needs you to be in.
If you are going with an outfitter and spending all that money.. why wouldn't you prepare...and prepare correctly.???

Whisper extremely well put. Thank you.

Wyowhisper. Your post brings back memories of my youth and deer camps in PA. In fact it mirrors mine pretty close in the 50's. My fater hunted with a Marlin 38-40, full ocatgon barrel. I can only remember him buying one box of 50 cartridges. I cannot remember him ever sighting it in or checking zero. He would shoot a deer about every year with 1 shot, put the box of cartridges back and pull them out the next year. He is 93 now, and has't hunted for about 15 years. I bet if I go to his gun closet, about 1/2 a box of those same 38-40 cartridges are still there. He also has a 30-30 Model 94 that my mother used. It was purchsaed in the 30's sometime. I bet it hasn't had two boxes of shells shot though it.

i worry a lot about tracking an elk in the rain. so when hunting the cascades i shoot the most powerful cartrage i can quickly and accurately hit one with, then i keep shooting. when hunting open country, with snow or dry conditions, putting a less painful to shoot bullet in the correct place, is what i worry about

Wyo,
Perfectly put.
When I was guiding I had two clients give me their scoped 338WM when the hunt was over. One guy had bought the rifle new and had put maybe a box through it. He had been talked into the need for a long range powerhouse of a rifle for western elk hunting by a combination of gun magazines, gun-shop salesman and a couple of buddies that were magnum fans. He hated the rifle and could bearly hold a 6 inch group at 100 yds. His regular rifle for hunting back home, mid-west I think, was a 243 or 257 Roberts ro maybe 250 Savage, anyway, a very light recoiling rifle. He did get his elk though, at under 100yds in the timber, so much for the long range stuff. The other guy had bought the rifle from a friend or relative as I recall, again he was basically talked into the idea that he needed that type of power. He was a reasonable shot, but I think he wished he'd brought his 270 instead. He wacked his elk at about 250yds as I recall, but it would have been no deader than if he'd used a 270. I sold both rifles after a while as they seemed to have no real advantage over either my 270, for long range deer and antelope or my 35 Whelen for black timber elk. That's my opinion based only on my personal experience and I expect that someone will want to give me grief about it but I've killed a couple dozen elk over the years and seen more shot.

My all time best not ready for this AT ALL hunters were two bowhunters we called Grumpy and Wheezy. Both 3 pack a day smokers and heavy drinkers, and a good 20 to 30 pound over weight, they were about as out of shape as you can possibily get. Early season bow hunting often means walking a lot at elevations from 6K to 9K+. These guys were flat-landers to boot. Neither one could keep up with their guides for even a few hundred yards without stopping and sitting down for a few minutes. They both had to quit smoking cold turkey during the hunt since after day 1 lighting up ment almost passing out! Grumpy got his name from the resultant permant bad mood that accompained the no cigs and Wheezy, I swear I could hear this guy breathing from 50 yds. After a couple of days we just put them in tree stands for the day. They never got a shot but at least they didn't die on us. (This was actually our biggest fear. If they were a bit late for breakfast we always wondered if they were dead in their cots!)

I'm not sure if this statement says more about the condition of the clients or the consideration of the guides.
I seldom find myself below 5K during everyday conditions and camp every chance I get at 9,100 ft, but I'm not in shape to be racing kids across mountain country.
The main thing I wonder about this thread is why so many worry about what the other guys carry.
Hell if a rookie wants to pack a rifle he can't shoot, and puts up his own cash for the experience, why all the fuss.
After all it lets those of us who know better feel even more superior to those lesser mortals, especially those whose money provides a good lifestyle in Gods country for the all knowing elite.