Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Must Read: Ret. Gen: M16/M4 Killing Our Soldiers

I have two friends here who served in Vietnam with the 25th Inf., although at different times. One was a platoon radio operator and the other was a squad leader in his platoon.

Both told me that they were neither issued a bayonet, although they had gone through bayonet training, one at Fort Benning and the other at Fort Lewis.

Both were wounded in Vietnam, by the way.

L.W.

I was issued AR's for 20 years beginning with the A1 and don't recall ever having many problems with any of them.

Pretty amazing what dumbphuck G.I.'s do to those rifles and they would still work. I saw a couple of idiots using the barrels of a couple of A2 models as pry bars on a 113 track once, I'll bet they didn't group very well after that.

I'm guessing the General is looking for a pay day if he can get them to buy his employers rifle.

I managed to kill an M-16 with blanks one night.

One of those "we don't want to have to turn in any ammo and do the paperwork" issues, or so I was told, so "rock and roll!" 60 rounds, three magazines on full auto, turned the gas tube cherry red. It separated from the front sight fixture and somehow got pulled back into the receiver, jamming the bolt in a half open position.

In another episode, the damned armory sergeant gave out MY rifle to some guy who never once cleaned it in 30 days of field exercises, then the same damn sergeant accepted that crud encrusted POS back into the rack. Then, he called me in to clean it and chewed me out for having the filthiest rifle in the battalion.

That could have been one small piece of straw contributing to my choice not to make the Army a career...

I thought the majority of our casualties in the middle east was from IEDs and suicide bombers.

After 05 in Iraq it was hard to get any of them to stand and fight. Afghanistan is a different war and I don't know much about it.

HAHAHA

I read one post and recognized him too. He commented on Dillons, Toyotas and Army. He's so sneaky.

I don't know about them but I always had a bayonet. And I know units in Vietnam that had used bayonets in close quarter fights.

A good bet they were using MK 262 ammo. I had a jamming problem with that ammo in my M4 as well, but the green tip M 855 never failed to feed or function.

I agree the M-4 is over gassed. I also think the 5.56 is to small of a cross section bullet. I also believe there needs to be a search for better powder that creates less fowling. At a minimum the new rifles need to be 16 mid length, with a 6mm bullet. I find it hard to believe there isn't a powder out there that burns clean enough to reduce the fowling. It's a good article and I think the F-35's are a waste of money when the A-10 has already proven itself. kwg

It was common for us to strip and clean M16A1's every time we had a 15 minute break. LOTS of them jammed. I mean JAMMED,not stoppages. Bolt carrier stuck hard in the receiver and you couldn't even break it open to clear. I didn't care for them.

Brass stuck above the bolt? That one is a B-I-T-C-H. Drop the mag and take the pointed end of a leatherman and yank the bolt to the rear with it and it'll clear it. The Leatherman MUT is made specifically for this but any Leatherman/Gerber tool will work.

Not going to swear that it was M855 because I typically kept 4 or so mags of Mk262 in my kit(Had an SPR behind the drivers seat of my HMMWV)but I did have a blown primer while in Afghanistan that locked my M4 up.
That was almost 10 years ago now which is another reason I'm not sure which ammo it was. Fortunately it was on a flat range so not a big deal.

TAK, this was in Vietnam before little boys like you had a Leatherman to play with.

I remember this and more from recruiters at high school age.

I know Evil, I'm talkin' about when it happens now. And it happens more with an M4 than it did with the M16A1's you had. Broken bolts were rare as a comet with M16's, they are somewhat common with M4's. The mid-length gas system makes much more sense, but the Army HAD to have the M4 be compatible with a bayonet. Like MAJ Herbert McBride said, a bayonet is what you country gives you when they are too cheap to give you a proper pistol.

For reference, The Atlantic article by Scales, former commandant of the Army War College, may be found at this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/01/gun-trouble/383508/?single_page=true

I will let the comment slide, as I am now a "svelte" and handsome guy:


It appears your emails all went into the SPAM folder but I have recovered them. Just let me know what you would like me to post (or not and just verify) and I will gladly do it. You really are an ass though I must say. AND BTW, some of us DO have a life, especially around the holidays, so forgive my dereliction of coming off leave just to work on your emails, especially when NMCI has a nasty habit of sending outside incoming emails with attachments into the SPAM folder.

Jorge,

You is one handsome sumbitch.



Travis

I'd just like to add that I was playing Call of Duty last night and the 6.8 was kickin' all kinds of ass.




Travis

Think I ought to make this my new signature line?