|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 118
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 118 |
Rebore, or Re-barrel? The best choice with the least alteration?
David
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,509
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,509 |
The Ruger M77 is not long enough to hold a 404 Jeffery.
unless it's the larger Safari action.
"after the bullet leaves the barrel it doesn't care what headstamp was on the case" "The 221 Fireball is what the Hornet could have been had it stayed in school"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 118
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 118 |
Mag bolt face? (diagram shows face diam as .0543, the .404 Jeff max length 3.530". The pressures and size indicate to me a regular length action would work. As I understand it's history,it was built on the standard Mauser 98 action of the era. Don't know how to add the cartridge Diagram to a post. Anyway: .404 Jeffery as originally loaded fired a .423" diameter bullet of either 300 gr or 400 gr with MV 2600 or 2125 ME of 40200FP or 5400FP.
(19 g) with a muzzle velocity of 2,600 ft/s (790 m/s) and muzzle energy of 4,500 foot-pounds force (6,100 N�m) or 400 gr (26 g) with a muzzle velocity of 2,125 ft/s (648 m/s) and 4,020 foot-pounds force (5,450 N�m) of energy.
Seems to me that a standard length action would suffice with a standard bolt face, but that is part of my question anyway.
thanks for the link Ramrod. I saved it to a document for future use.
I just found an old piece in Bore bore where Atkinson addressed this, and someone else observed the foolowing: You will need an action made for the RUM case, a Winchester Model 70 or Rem 700 in 300RUM would be the perfect donor, as would a CZ 500 in 375 H&H. Any H&H length action would work, but the RUM actions already have the feed rails opened up and are easier to convert. The CZ 550 is simply so massive that little internal modification will be needed; that said, you'll need a gunsmith who understands how to make a big bore feed.
Ray wrote:
" I think I have probably used the 404 more than anyone else around here..I have built a dozen or so of them for myself and ended up selling all of them..Its a wonderfull cartridge with a world of nostalgia behind it..I do recommend a Mauser Mod. 20 big action or one of its counterparts as opposed to a long action 98 Mauser conversion or a Mod. 70...Todays the most proper action a available is the new control feed Win M-70 in the RUM calibers that are built around the 404 case, they work well indeed and are second only to a full size Mauser. I have never been satisfied with the CZ in 404s...With 95 grs. of IMR-4831 you can get 2600 FPS plus depending on barrel length, you don't have to settle on those old 404 velocities of 2100 FPS..I loaded all mine with 93 grs. for a mild pressure and over 2400 FPS..that is a buffalo and elephant gun. I have probably shot around 30 or 40 buffalo with the 404 Jefferys, and a world of plainsgame. It can be much more gun than the 450-400 by about 500 FPS if you wish..I will say it kills much better at 2400 FPS than it does at 2000 FPS and the effect on buffalo is apparant to the eye and at 2600 FPS, the big bulls shudder at the shot..also at 2600 FPS I shudder at the shot.:) and Jim Brockman cussed me for lending him those fast loads to test his rifle, that made my day! smile
All this said, the 416 Rem or 416 Ruger is just as good and a hell of a lot cheaper to build or purchase in a new rifle, and I suspect Ruger will be the first .404 company in years with the 404 Ruger thats on the drawing board, and a cinch to put together on a std. Mauser, FN, or M-70..I have built two of them so far." - Atkinson.
So with this, the RUM would work, but I don't think Ruger mfg the RUM... at least in LH, that I have found.
Last edited by dai_sca; 01/20/15.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 435
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 435 |
While the MKII would make a nice light 404. If I was going to build one I'd grab a CZ action and go from there. One of the easiest ways to go.
Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 118
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 118 |
thank you sir!... If I can find an LH CZ I will use that path. Right now, no one seems to have any in stock. -- David.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Honestly I can't see building a 404 unless going with a fairly classic big bore rifle build and that's going to be based on a 98 mauser or commercial variant and it won't be cheap or easy.
If on the other hand you simply want a 40 cal to launch 400 gr bullets 2200-2400 fps, I'd forget the 404 and go with a 416 Rem mag or 416 Ruger. You'll get exactly the same performance on game, but brass, dies and component bullets will be easier to find and less expensive.
I say this after having embarked on the 500 Jeffrey journey. The more exotic the chambering the more difficult and more expensive the package. If you're looking for a level of performance not available with more common chamberings or have a nostalgic itch to scratch, so be it. But if you're looking for a hunting rifle, a 40 cal 400 gr pill leaving the muzzle at 2400 fps is going to do the same thing to game no matter what parent action or what configuration your brass.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,100
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,100 |
I would rebore a 375 RSM if I had to use a Ruger donor. You would probably have a nice factory stock and would have excellent sights.
Who is John Galt?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 9 |
Rebore, or Re-barrel? The best choice with the least alteration?
David Why not just have MRC build one for you?
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,832 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,832 Likes: 4 |
Imagine that. Recommending a 700 for a dangerous game rifle. With the bolt handle falling off, the extractor failing and the trigger being all f----d up. That would cause someone to get killed just for thinking it.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,106 Likes: 9 |
Imagine that. Recommending a 700 for a dangerous game rifle. With the bolt handle falling off, the extractor failing and the trigger being all f----d up. That would cause someone to get killed just for thinking it. Who suggested a rem 700 for the build? That guy has a few screws loose...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,832 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,832 Likes: 4 |
Read the second post from the OP. "A Winchester model 70 or Rem 700 in 300RUM would be a perfect donor" I thought my eyes were screwed tight, but do need new glasses.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
|
|
|
|
553 members (1234, 10Glocks, 01Foreman400, 1lessdog, 17CalFan, 10gaugemag, 61 invisible),
2,456
guests, and
1,168
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,403
Posts18,488,921
Members73,970
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|