Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Experiments versus Experience... A Philosophy Thread

First off... a couple of observations :

Christians are not well positioned to defend Christianity if they can't first defend the existence of a Supreme Being who remains interested in His Creation. Citing Bible verses does NOTHING toward that end.

Atheists and Agnostics too often take the easy way out in these discussions by arguing as if debunking the book of Genesis in particular, and the Bible in general, is all that is required to discount a Supreme Being of the type mentioned above. That demonstrates a lack of original thinking as far as I'm concerned.

Now...... to the question in my mind.

Science is all about observation. Being able to observe the results of controlled experiments and then draw conclusions from them is basic science as I understand the term.

Down thru the ages, we have accounts of humans EXPERIENCING firsthand some evidence of a Supreme Being who has inserted Himself into His Creation. These experiences are the type that one would not expect to be duplicated. [Should the blind man be struck blind again so that his sight could be restored a second time?]

But the non-believer discounts these experiences because he didn't personally observe them, all the while citing the results of "scientific experiments" which he didn't personally observe. The fact that hundreds, or thousands, of different rats were used in some of these experiments poses no problem for him. In fact... the more rats that responded the same way, the more credibility the "experiment" has in the scientific view.

But the REAL kicker is this:

Every non-believer has a conscience. Attempts to explain this phenomenon apart from a Divine Creator are actually ludicrous, even from the standpoint of Science.

Claiming that it is a product of evolution requires -usually- an appeal to the mechanism of "enlightened self-interest". Like ALL claims as to evolution being an explanation for OUR genesis, it requires HUGE chunks of TIME to even merit consideration.

And Science is still learning just how little is really known about TIME. But they "borrow" it, or "create" it just like Obama does money.

So... The Creator hid the proof of His existence in the last place a "scientist" will look....... right inside himself.

Blessed are they who have not seen & yet believe.

Youre wrong Cur, they dont believe its a conscience, because they didnt actually see it.

I have a single piece of glitter on a plate under glass.
I ask all believers in ANY god to pray that he levitates it 1mm.
I'll wait.

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

Pretty good rant, Cur.
But I must start at the beginning before addressing any or all else.

If speaking the Word does nothing, is of no consequense, produces no results, and exists eternally as pointless then why the hell would our Father God Creator bother to to SAY it in the first place ?

Let alone instruct us keep continually flowing from our mouths...

It lives.
It goes on eternal.
It never returns void.
It always accomplishes that which it eas spoken to do.

It can NEVER fail.

To say the Word of God has no power is to bring God Himself to no effect.

Well, that's religion's job.
Specifically men 's religious traditions.
I'll have no part of that.

Belief is acceptance.
Disbelief is rejection.
It's all just a simple matter of choice.

So easy even a child could do it...


.

Not much of an original thinker, huh?

"Atheists and Agnostics too often take the easy way out in these discussions by arguing as if debunking the book of Genesis in particular, and the Bible in general, is all that is required to discount a Supreme Being of the type mentioned above. That demonstrates a lack of original thinking as far as I'm concerned."

You're just Ringman's opposite number.

There's the thing Archerhunter, you believe the Bible is Gods word. That's a belief, and not everyone shares it. It doesn't mean they don't believe in God, just maybe not exactly like you do. I think that's what Curdog is saying, that he best evidence may not be something physical that you can put your finger on and say "there it is".

Where in the hell is Gus when you need him?

More original than the plagiarist that wrote your comicbook.

Actually, I'm so original there's of even a religion that represents my belief. No church, preacher, congregation.
No one to bow to, impress, worship.
No candels to light, beads to swirl, songs to sing.
I'm not asked to bike the neighborhood, blow myself up or hate people.
I don't have any special uniform, jewelry, rugs, haircut or body mutilation requirement.
But I know...KNOW that this world isn't all there is.

The irony is that as man becomes more "intelligent" he has a harder time seeing the self evident presence of God.

One would think that as a group of people that spend a goodly amount of time in nature that coming across something like this



and concluding, yeah it just happened that way would be the last conclusion one would reach.

God won't play your stupid games. He gave you ample evidence of His existence but you've rejected it. That's your loss.

Believe as you will.But please do not be too quick to judge those of us who decide to keep their epiphanies to themselves.

A God incapable of revealing himself apart from a bunch of written words ain't fit to be called God.

A man earnestly seeking the Creator of all that is will wind up at the bible.

But it's not much of a starting place.

If a man becomes convinced intellectually that Jesus of Nazareth IS the Creator God, then another bunch of written words could later convince him of the opposite.

Christ is to be experienced.... not just studied.

We most often convict our own selves out of our own mouths. Ain't nothing gets a duck in terminal, eternal trouble but his beak.

Good things come to those that wait....

Ole Ringworm got hung up for 3 days staring at an orange juice can cause it said "Concentrate". Twas a rumor but a strong one.

You forgot "anyone know for SURE "

LoL

Anyway, it doesn't matter what I believe, only what you do.

I though I had found Jesus once, but it was Miguel wearing jesus's jacket.

curdog4570,

You are fascinating. I think you have claimed to be a Christian and yet you exalt your opinion above God's Word. Jesus says in Luke 16:30-31

"But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

By faith the believer accepts Genesis. By faith the unbeliever rejects Genesis. Neither was there to observe God call into existence this time, space, material continuum. Some choose to reject science and go with philosophy by choose to believe everything came from nothing and claim, erroneously they are using science.

God did not hide "the proof of His existence in the last place a "scientist" will look....... right inside himself" only. It is also obvious around us. He tells us in Romans 1:18ff, the,
"unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." A real scientist actually tests, observes and verifies the repeatability of his claim.

There is a difference between "knowing" something is true, and "believing" something is true.