Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC Black Rifle Challenge Thread

Great! Without that first shot its not a bad shooting gun!. What did you have done to it?

It says a lot about the Mini-30 when you get excited about a 3 inch 10 shot group with a first shot flier. It wasn't just one thing that I did to get the group size down, but several. I suspect that all were trying to overcome a barrel that is too light to have the operating rod, stock and gas block all hanging on it and bouncing around at each shot.

1. Glass bed the action.
2. Bed the fore arm into the gas block.
3. Addition of an UltiMAK hand guard.
4. Addition of an Accu-Strut LT.

All of the changes made to the rifle made an improvement to the accuracy of the rifle without hurting the reliability. It never has failed to fire or function.

If I had to do just one that I thought would affect the accuracy the first thing I would do would be bed the fore arm tip into the gas block. This was done by glassing shims to the fore arm metal until as tight a fit as possible was obtained that would still allow the dis-assembly of the rifle. It was the least expensive change, took the least amount of time to do and I think made the most difference in my rifle.

The second would be glass the action. That action/stock fit is really loose and has to move around a lot when the rifle is fired. I doubt seriously that it is in the same place in the stock after each stock. With glass bedding it will be closer. This was not easy to do.

Next would be the addition of the UltiMak hand guard and last would be the Accu-Strut.Both of these serve to stiffen the barrel although I'm not sure how much. While they add a good bit of weight, they both made a positive difference in the group size and that tells me that the barrel needs some kind of support. Both are easy to install and mostly just bolt on. If you follow the directions, it won't be a problem.

If you look at a Ruger Mini 14/30 you realize that the slide is not really attached to anything and doesn't ride on any thing like a guide rod. It just goes back and fourth in a huge channel in the stock and can't get out because the barrel is blocking it from the top. The first thought that popped into my mind when I saw this is it will probably never fail to function, but why bother with a rifled barrel?

I never have been able to figure out the first shot flier...Probably has to do with the fact that the first round is chambered by hand and the rest are chambered by the violent operating of the action.

While I'm not a gunsmith and did the work on this rifle my self, I had the close supervision of a good gunsmith keeping me on the straight and narrow. He has built Mini-14's that were true minute of angle rifles. He did it by replacing the barrel with a heavy barrel and making the necessary changes to the gas block so that the barrel didn't have to be reduced in size. He told me that he wouldn't do another one, even for himself.

Both the Ruger Mini-30 and Mini-14 are screaming out for a barrel that is heavier between the action and the gas block and a gas block that is big enough to handle it with out reducing the size of the barrel.

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69gr Black Hills MKHP


69gr Nosler Custom Comp



Stag Model 6 Varminter, 16x42 PolloLoco FF

These were the best two groups at about 21.7mm or .85" OD (appx. .63" CTC) but a couple others came close. 75 and 77 gr. holes were the ugliest - refurb Black Hills and TAC Match. It was a bit breezy out.

Nice shooting, awesome rifle Fiddy!!

Thanks! I won't be complaining...

Stag makes a good gun!

Good shooting but I am a little confused. Is this an entry or were you just testing loads? This challenge is deigned for the shooter to go out and fire two 10 shot groups and post the results. You post makes it sounds like you fired multiple 10 shot groups and just picked the two best for your entry.

From the rules:
"Scoped rifles will fire two 10 shot groups at the target listed below (different targets are ok, just make sure both groups are on the same piece of paper)"

yep if you can pick your best groups that is not what the rest of us did. I fired 2 10 shot groups with 2 rifles and posted what I shot. In one case a yellow fly was landing on my head while shooting and I posted that group as part of my submission.

On the other hand I had swapped scopes on the rifles and this was my second trip to the range as I did not follow the rules the first time either. I really want one of those 16 power scopes now for things like this.

I have had my eye on one of the SWFA scopes to use for this type of thing, load development, .22lr shooting, etc.... Basically a dedicated range scope that I can swap around.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-20x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P502.aspx

RE load testing, don't go above fixed 16 imho. Some days with mirage thats almost too much for me.

I ran a variable, 8-32 for testing, could go high for shooting in good conditions or night, but often during the summer I had to back off to lower X

I know F class shooters deal with high X though... I just never got used to it since we rarely shot optics.

Ah I see. I did not follow the rules and am disqualified. I will have to try again another day...

I shot 10 rounds of each ammo I brought to the range after sighting it in. The groups I posted were of the two best performers. Then I shot much more

Just a heads-up if you're thinking of ordering, do so well in advance. As of a couple weeks ago all their fixed 10, 16, and 20x scopes were on back order.

I initially had ordered a 16 and a 10, but when they told me I'd have to wait several weeks for the 10 I opted for a second 16 and it was their last one.

not really disqualified, but if you picked the best, thats not fair.

We could shoot all day and pick the two best.

Really good shooting though all in all!

Go at it for a pair of groups with the same ammo and you'll do fine.

Yeah next time

I ordered another LaRue mount for my 3.5-10 MK4 so now I have an extra scope for range use.

I really like the super chicken scopes and especially the mil quad reticle. I put mine on my SPR and need to shoot it

Judging by the looks of the last groups, you and your rifle will do just fine... I'm wanting to build one just like yours.

I guess I just can't shoot worked up some loads with Lever powder and the 55 NBT load work looked better than this but...

18" Noveske SPR, 55 gr NBT, RP brass, Leverevolution powder, CCI 41 primer, 10x Super Chicken scope in LaRue mount.
the gun

the range

the results

I have some 77 gr Tipped SMK's coming in, the NCC's haven't been the most accurate bullet and all I had left were these 55 gr NBT's. I bought a few thousand while on closeout a while back.

May try it again, I certainly need the practice.

looks good to me. I think we need one of those 16X super chickens to be competitive.

10X will shoot tiny groups..

Thats MOA accuracy more or less, for 10 shot groups, I still say most ARs are capable of, its not bad.

Should compare to most folks deer rifle groups for same rules!