Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC Black Rifle Challenge Thread

So do I, KP. My buddy gave me a thousand or so once fired federal cases about 15 years ago. I've reloaded the same couple hundred cases a number of times with no issues and good accuracy.

Federal brass is soft and usually you will get loose primer pockets.

The last I loaded, I lost primers it was once fired American Eagle before they started using LC brass.

I had a batch of Federal Gold Match .308 brass, that I reloaded for an AR-10. First reload with a starting load of Varget under 168 SMK's, it was blowing primers out. I stopped and took the ammo home, and rechecked charges. The charge weight was correct, and saw no kernals that didn't look like Varget. Velocities were what they should be as well.

In 223, unless things have changed, in the AR, if you run it to top levels, the primer pockets open since its too soft.

Take your max load and back it off 1 to 1.5 grains and you generally will do fine, that doesn't compete for many in the end though.

And I"ve seen more than a few primers fall out of factory gold medal match ammo on the first firing in an AR

Maybe they've changed it.

Maybe you have some made to LC specs but overrun and stamped FC>

I"m a brass hoarder.... I"ve never saved FC 223 as bad as I want to. I tried it a few times and it was not worht the effort so would trade it back to military for once fired LC, as all they needed was brass weight to get more ammo....

No dis, but I"ve seen folks happy wiht 80s at 2500 fps or less, and at those mild loads even FC brass would likely survive.
You won't win a match with those loads though.

I'm going to have to look closer next time I reload some FC 223 brass. Most of the 223 I shoot is from my short barreled Ruger Compact and consists of a 40 grain V-max, 24.3 grains of AA2200C and whatever SRP I have handy. This load gets 3,375 fps from a 16.5 barrel.

I too think the FC brass is a bit soft and definitely too soft for hot loads. I've de-primed several FC cases at the range and have had primers wind up in the trigger group, magazine, and barrel extension. They are no fun when you are working on decent group. I still save it as its not completely useless, it just gets loaded with mild loads and is trashed when primer pockets are done. I can usually get 3-4 firings out of it.

OH you guys are killin me! Nothing I love more than shooting groups! I sure would love to give this challenge a try! If I can get out to the range anytime soon, I'll give this a try!

I've got nothing fancy, just an off the shelf Colt Hbar! I first bought a Bushmaster Varminter when all the gun rag writers were claiming it's virtues! Couldn't get it to shoot anything moa in it and 5 other guys from the club wanted to buy one and brought out all their pet loads. They couldn't get under an inch with it either. SO, I took it back to my dealer, he refunded the full amount and put it toward the new Colt! Here's my first group with it!



Seems to shoot most anything I feed it very well!

Thanks for the great thread and especially the great challenge! Hopefully soon I'll be able to join in!

Federal .223 brass is very soft. So soft that when you try to trim it the case mouths will tear instead of cut.

This translates into very short primer pocket life. I got a case of once fired from a local LE agency and on the first loading the primer pockets were already loose. With a load a grain below max I had nothing but problems with plenty of primers to fish out of my lower receiver, lodged in the BCG, and trigger group.

I had the same results with brass from Federal American Eagle ammo.

After those experiences when Federal .223 brass hits the ground, that's where it stays.

I don't shoot service rifle but do compete in DMM using an AR15. I shoot 77gn bullets at 2566fps and am pretty competitive unless guys show up with fast 6mm or 6.5mm rifles (you know since every unit fields their designated marksman a 6/6.5mm GAP or JP) since there is not always a MIL division or Open division. I don't load anything to the gills anymore and I am quick to retire brass when problems present. I usually get 4-5 firings in .223 Wylde gas guns.

I load Federal in .30-30 Improved,.308 Win, and 7mm Rem Mag also; used to load it in .280 Improved too. I find it similar to Nosler brass that needs extra prep. I discard Federal and Nosler at 8-10 firings from bolt guns.

If I don't stress it, Federal brass serves me well; kinda like your heart lasts longer when it isn't run at high RPM from nicotine and energy drinks.

I went and shot rats today !

Carry on. If it works for you, good enough. Thats always the case.

My goal was that my equipment was never the weak link, and my goal was to win the nationals at Perry, not just play around.

Thats why my comment of slow ammo just wont' cut it. And it won't. Not on a national level, it'll leave you an x or a point short at some point.

Heck 77s at 600 slow fire prone will leave you in the wake... especially slow ones...

rifle and setup: front on mirror. rear on shirt. pro tip - when resting on magazine, make sure it has consistent pressure from shot to shot



100 yard range (actually 1/2 mile)




target - no calipers but rifle make a suitable yardstick. round count comes up a little short, but definitely minute of hog.




rifle and ammo: dpms panther lr308t. various rounds from 125 to 168 gr. sometimes i have to reload a mag with different ammo. not conducive to accuracy, but... it happens.

i know, i know... there are those that will say i had an unfair advantage using a dpms, and that's fine. go ahead and put me at the top of the leader board with an asterisk by my name if you must. but i'll add he was bobbing and weaving the whole time. note the broken jaw and bottom cutters shot off from a head on charge. try that with a 223!

Where was the hit that stopped the charge located at?

djones,
As much as we all know that DPMS of yours is sub MOA all day long, twice on Sundays, "when you do your part," with ball ammo, from a lead sled, standing on your head, etc....etc.... if you want the top of the leader board you need to refer back to page one and kill some paper. Oh, and you will have your work cut out for you.

Current Rankings:

Optics:
1) scenarshooter: .475 MOA (page 6)
2) tex_n_cal: .783 MOA (page 10)
3) KeneticPerformance: .819 MOA (page 8)
4) Certifiable: .935 MOA (page 10)
5) TWR: 1.083 MOA (page 12)
6) jimmyp: 1.085 MOA (page 5)
7) TWR: 1.110 MOA (page7)
8) Certifiable: 1.155 MOA (page 5)
9) wareagle700: 1.246 MOA (page 1)
10) Bluedreaux: 1.251 MOA (page 12)
BGunn: 1.265 MOA (page 2)
348srfun: 1.449 MOA (page 7)
tex_n_cal: 1.461 (page 5)
jimmyp: 1.537 MOA (page 5)
fredIII: 1.736 MOA (page 5)
Formidilosus: 1.787 MOA (page 4)
Mathsr: 1.928 MOA (page 4)
wareagle700: 1.968 (page 5)
TWR: 2.308 MOA (page 1)

Iron Sights:
1) rost495: 199-8x / 1.351 MOA (page6)
2) wareagle700: 167-0x / 3.320 MOA (page 1)

Rost,
I don't consider what I do playing around unless you consider war a sport and DMM or PRS to be practice. Most of us don't shoot service rifle at Perry; my schedule won't support it. I can get a practical match in here and there and there are no extra points for X's; hits count just like they are an LBG. Brass stays where it lays so I prep and load what I have on hand; I just need it to function and shoot 1MoA not last 10 reloads. I think I have that under control.

You have achieved some good things with your shooting and know a lot but while we need similar things from our guns I can can afford some things you couldn't in your discipline.

Once again if you are happy, keep on keeping on.

This thread is about accuracy, some of that has to do with getting the best you can and as fast as you can push it due to wind.

This has nothing to do with what you use in combat or what works there really. That would bring up a total different set of "rules" to me, and thats not whats going on here.

I simply made some comments that according to many and myself included, FC brass ain't worth glancing at, and that slow speeds won't win matches.

I'm going to continue to attempt to steer folks away from FC brass in 223. Its going to bite them at some point generally spekaing. When there is plenty of other brass out there, why suffer? I can make about anything work, almost including some FC 223 brass, but its not worth the headaches...
FWIW I use FC in a lot of other calibers at times, including our match M1As in 308.....

The play around comment was I was shooting to win, it had NOTHING to do with what you are shooting in competitions.

Having an 800 yard steel range has showed me that you need a high BC bullet moving as fast as you can to cheat the wind. If you're running a 77 at slow speeds, you're leaving a lot on the table and a fast moving stubby bullet will beat you.

I run the 77's at 2650 in my 16" carbine and get plenty of reloads out of my brass.

Bet it ain't FC brass. LOL.

Nope, LC, RP, WW and Lapua, I'm working with some RP now that has around 10 loadings on it and am trying to decide whether to anneal or leave it lay next time. Necks are still tight and primer pockets as well.