Which is better?

Smart lease, don't purchase

Depends on the woman. Old man told me one time “Son, there’s nothing wrong with playing with women like that, but you sure as hell don’t bring them home to your mom”

Shack up. No contest.

Yep, and die in old age alone.

Decisions, decisions...... (married 43 years).

We lived in sin for 6 years before we got married.


Been together close to 20 years total.

But at least you get to die with all your own stuff, not just half of it.

Avoid

Some would argue being married is shacking up, in and of itself.

Don’t think that shacking up without being married can’t burn your ass financially, too. Ain’t any free lunches to be had.

together 24 before going to the courthouse and signing the papers 6 years ago for insurance purposes.

Depends how much you respect her. If she’s not good enough to give her your name then have at it.

if it flies, floats or [bleep], you are better off leasing

Big diff in shack up between working adults.

And shack up with welfare baby momma like millions do in this country.

She may not want your name thus the hyphenated ones.

It’s a new day.

Yep.
Big difference there.

Then she’s not worth the seed.

There’s whores and then there’s ladies. Used to be a difference.

Shacking up most often does not last. Depends on your goals and your need or lack of need for stability.

Happy Camper approves this post.

He may, but it’s irrelevant. A woman that won’t take the name of her husband isn’t worth marrying, let alone having kids with. If a guy is sterile then I guess no harm no foul.

53 years, never seen a reason to sign a contract with the state.

Daughters mom and myself were together 26 years, things led to things and we split amicably. Gave her the house, she gave me a little cash for the house.

Raised our daughter with 2 parents.

Nothing but respect for my married brethren. But, damn most my married friends really put on a front about being happy and enjoying marriage.

If you can't compromise/adapt , don't marry....

Hell, retirement was almost as much....after 40 years of marriage, both of us working.

To each their own.

I doubt you’d call a woman a whore in front of her long time live in male partner.
Jmo

If there is no up or down, no right or wrong, might as well let the child molesters and soy boy/girls run the world.

Right.

Can't argue with that logic...
Problem being very few deserve that respect

We are seeing this result of this today.... buckle up

Lol

If she’s mouthing off and acting like a man, I would speak to her like a man. If she is demure and there is no reason, to then why in the hell would I? Id just tell my kids to avoid their kids and tell em why.

Christ’s sake, just because you disagree with someone doesn’t mean you have to make it an issue.

But apparently this strikes close to home? Just curious. I don’t GAF either way, but I do care about societal norms in this country.

Yup

Can’t bitch about alphabet people, or welfare, or all the resultant mess if they’re not willing to address the root.

Regardless of the legal formalities, there is a huge benefit to stable two-parent families. Makes all the difference in the world for the kids, and eventually for the parents.

Been married 54 years, and we are just getting into the great grandchildren phase. In short, my children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren are probably the greatest source of joy in my life. If we hadn't formed a stable two-parent family, I wouldn't have that.

If you wake up at age 60 and realize that changing partners every few to several years hasn't worked out for you, it's too late for a do over.

It appears you’re making things an issue here.
But that’s okay.

Carry on.

100%

Correct..... problem is millions of people have bought into the leftist propaganda and are now cat ladies and old cuck men and they are angry and determined to take it out on happy traditional people

The government should not be involved in your private life.

Government really needs to be out of the marriage business too. Why the heck does anyone need a license to get married?

Exactly

Honestly I wanted to shack first 20 years ago. Wife said marry me or I ain’t moving in. Thank goodness she stood her ground. After all the drama that is a relationship. If we had shacked it probably would have been over before we weathered the storm to the great part.

Marital councilor told me once the reason co habit first marriages fail more often is. You still hide things about your personality while you co habit. Then once married they stop being hid.

Did for a little over a year,it's been 42 years since marriage.

Traditional marriages divorce rates in the USA are running at 50%.

So much for your happy traditional people.

With a present 50% divorce rate somebody must be hiding sonmething in their marriages.

A contract has legalities involved as do implied contracts.

the question changes if something happens to your spouse and they die or disappear….

Dating when you are older sucks, and even though there are a lot of women, some say most of them have issues

A man of means that bathes regularly can get married any given day of the week .

As told to me by a minister.

It's called COMMITMENT. Get your little feelings out of the way and stand up. 38 years and counting. It aint easy. Not every male can do it. Real men can.

Even if she is a psycho bitch and uses the courts to clean you out financially..... yeah a real man

Again, so much for your “happy traditional married couple”.

And to think,,,she was “good enough” to take your name.

Can’t argue with that logic, can we?

They don't. Marriage, IMO, is a mutual, private contract between two people. Our ceromony in front of the Bishop and the state paperwork we did to me is irelevant. 43 years here, following a year long live-together.

Gender does not matter (am I "woke"? ). I don't give a chit - but I don't like homo-pairings to be artificially stuck in my face. Cross gender pairings don't do that, in my perception. But I could be indoctrinated....

Government and/or religious ceremony/ paperwork is extraneous. It does make things easier on the legal front.

If they ain’t worthy of marriage they’re probably not worthy of shaking up. If crazy is just waiting to rear it’s ugly head no amount of shaking up will change this.

Little confused on which part to argue with? tradition or taking your last name?
The taking of the last name was not my post.
The traditional relationship was my post..... point being the educational system is feeding liberal feminist ideas to women and that is toxic to a traditional relationship. Do you dispute this?

I was committed to my 1st.
She was not committed to me.
after 12 years of a signed paper marriage she decided she wanted what was suppose to be my best friend.
So I let her go.
I even packed up all of her stuff and moved her out.
the last year of our so called marriage was shear Hell for me.
I purchased a home after i moved her out and a bit more than a year after that I started seeing my current partner.
about 9 months to a year after we were going together she moved in with me.
No Papers need to be signed as far as I and her are Concerned.
She was beaten for 20+ years in her 1st marriage and it took al long time for her to get past that part of her life.
We have been together for over 25 years and I have put 2 rings on her finger.
I set the stone in the first one I gave her and about 2 years ago I surprised her with a new one 3 times the size of the 1st one.
She still has the 1st ring in her drawer.
I may be screwed up but I personally do not think you have to sign some stupid paper to show your Commitment to someone.
We have had our tensions in the past and we will have more in the future but we find a way to get past those tensions some how.
With out the signed paper.

It’s a contract or commitment between two people….legally, mentally, etc. Shackin’ up is just a way to give yourself an “out”….getting the milk without buying the cow.

We dated or were engaged for 2 1/2 years before we graduated and tied the knot. Plenty of time for escape for either if it wasn’t going as it should and there were no kids or assets to worry about and not many surprises.

It’ll be 50 years next summer.

Argue?

The present tradition of traditional marriage is a 50% divorce rate. Do you dispute that?

You were in agreement with BGG’s post of taking one’s name and what a woman is who would not . Do you dispute that?

It ain’t exactly earth shaking news of what the media has done and continues do by attacking any once sacred tradition, I don’t dispute that.

Now you can parse and mince while nitpicking any thing you want that’s been said here.

Your first “traditional marriage”, how’d that work out? What was the end result of it?

We "shacked up" for three years prior to marriage. Smart move that we both agree. We have now been happily married 34 years.

The Christian religion calls marriage Holy matrimony.

They don't call shacking up Holy shacking up. I believe they call it adultery.

If shacking up was such a great thing, why did you marry?


Gotta say, at 52, I font think I would ever re-marry.
Wouldn't move one in either.

But I might fornicate.
It's been 26 years, but I remember it being fun.

Sure hope to never have to worry about it.

So true. Dating is exhausting. The vast majority have some real issues - especially Caucasian women.

I remember when bastard and illegitimate chillruns was/were a big deal.
Big conversation at the barber shop.

Because we wanted to. Simple, eh? Why the puhuck do you care what we did?

The 59% divorce rate has nothing to do with with traditional marriage, that is a by product of the left and feminism.
As for taking a mans name.... if a woman won't, again she has drank the feminist cool aid.
As for my traditional first marriage , I was traditional, she was not, so it didn't work out.
So wtf is your point?

The 50% divorce rate counts a lot of people that didn’t really know what a marriage was before they went through with it. I bet people that think of a marriage rather than a wedding end up doing a lot better.

I suspect that you’re right. There’s more than a few mile markers in life that we don’t know the full measure of until we get into them.

Maybe why many are deferring marriage or forsaking it all together.

I was raised that shacking up with something other people did, not decent folks. When I got married I did it the way I thought you were supposed to, we dated then got engaged, didn't live together before we got married. Eight years into it I started getting a suspicious feeling so I slapped a GPS tracker on her car when I went off to work on one of my week long trips. Within a few hours I'd figured out that she was headed out to a trailer park to spend the night with a dopehead as soon as I was off to work. I went straight to the best divorce lawyer in town, told him I wanted a divorce and here's what she's doing. He said that's nice, but it's gonna cost you half of what you have (none of which she earned). I said you've got to be kidding, she's practically living with another guy while I'm out of town. He said it doesn't matter, that's the law.

Never again will I put myself in a situation where someone can do what she did and remain legally entitled to half my assets. In the end she didn't get half, but she damn sure tried. For those of you who have long lasting, stable marriages to good women I congratulate you, that's all I wanted but it didn't happen. I'm sure marriage to the right person can be wonderful but if you get one like I did, and there are a lot of them out there, it can turn into a nightmare with a legal system that is stacked against you in every way.

That's why guys decide to shack up instead of getting married.

Well, for some reason my 7 month old has decided to stop sleeping through the night. Maybe I should have forsaken it too! I’m exhausted.

The divorce rate has everything to do with it. Most divorces are over money issues if what one reads is to be believed.

Well, So much for love and traditional marriage until death do us part.

Hopefully if you did it a second time you’ve found true happiness and a life’s partner. I mean that,

I’m thinking you’ll look back on it fondly.

Two relevant points.....

80% of divorces are initiated by the woman, and if a spouse wants out the other partner has no say.

“Common Law Marriage”, the definition prob’ly varies by state but IIRC in the event of a split after shacking up for a period, if you’ve been cohabiting long enough there can still be legal and financial obligations to be met.

Experience speaking.

I don't believe money is the root cause of divorce. I believe societal decay is. Money has been an issue long before the divorce rate soared.
And I did re-marry to a wonderful traditional women. You have no idea how hard that is to find these days.
So thank you for the good wishes....

They ALL, have issues, the question is, can/do you want to, deal with them.

Good on you.

Wow, you guys can turn the simplest question into a pissing match......

Just like what happens in a traditional marriage.
Laughing here.

Dated for 17 years. Started dating when she was 19 and I was 24. Friends would bust my balls that we were common law. In this state you have to hold yourself out as married, tell people you were, introduce as married. We didn’t so I never worried too much.

We have been married since 2014. No children and neither of us have parents living. She built a career with her own name, no way was I taking that.

And men don't have issues...

Right,

You got married to a woman of 43 years ago, not to a woman of today.

When you look at statistics such as who's on more head meds, reports more attempts at self harm and diagnosis for mental conditions, women far surpass men in those areas, and the younger and more liberal the women the worse the numbers.

I guess I had sense in my choice. Not luck. She did too as I watch her wrestling on the floor with the heeler pups.

No contest A.S. you are 100% correct.
I always get a laugh out of these threads from guys married 40 yrs and think they know todays "modern" woman

Odds were much better of finding a keeper 40 yrs ago Ed.
You have been fortunate in many ways... I suspect much due to good judgement, I think you are foolish to ignore the luck factor

Why the puhuck you so defensive?

It's a pretty obvious question.
One a guy as educated as yourself should anticipate.

IDGAF if you jump off a bridge together.

But, if living together was the beans, why did you want to marry?

That's a big issue with Modern Women.

If she describes herself as "strong and independent", it means entitled, stubborn, and uncooperative.

Not anymore.

The number one reason women give for initiating divorce is "I'm not happy". In English she's jealous of the Fakebook and Instahoe feeds of all the women she follows. She decides she wants a taller, richer, fitter, better looking, "bigger" man, and believes all the Opera types who tell she can just "manifest that man", so she decides to dump her perfectly adequate husband thinks she tame and marry "Chad" or "Tyrone".

Yea, it's pretty funny. They have no clue.

None that I'm aware of :-)

For single women, the older they are the more issues they have. There's a reason no one put a ring on it before she hit 26.

No one under 70 cares.

The guys that kill me are the ones that say my wife is an angel for putting up with me for 43 yrs.... really? wtf? did it occur to them to be better spouses?

You've got that backwards. It's not men leaving marriages, its the women.

Here's an interesting statistic for you.

About 60% of divorces are filed by women.
In Marriages where the woman has a college degree, 90% of the divorces are filed by women.

I might be more inclined to ask, are you sure she's the angel you think she is?

Lol ... good point

That's a sure sign a man doesn't know his own value.

You ever think it’s YOU old fuggs with issues?

LOL

43 yrs of henpecking will have that affect....

No....... next stupid question

^^^^

Rocket scientist.

Kinda like a Taylor Swift album. She might need to look in the mirror for the reasons for all her “creativity”.

LOL

Everybody has issues, after a while everyone is damaged goods too, with adult luggage, but then again there's taking ownership of those issues and acknowledging those special times when you're acted like an ass. That's something women don't do.

Awful elusive on the reason you decided to marry.
I don't get it. Not a big deal, is it. Maybe you lived together
long enough. Decided to "make it permanent".

You seem awful touchy on the subject. It's 2022, almost.
If her dad stuck a shotgun up your rear and marched you to
the JP, heck, that's just a good story now.

Did the trial run of 10 years before we got married. Figured it was safer to work through those 20s with plenty of ability to exit if she wakes up "unhappy".

What blows my mind is the mid 40s to later 50s women that just split.
Often married to a rock solid, good guy.

Then they destroy all that. And take up with Tyrone. Or a meth head.
Or, another woman?


Mines 45.
Rock solid.

That's what a lot of guys have thought.

Both can be stressful and costly, I prefer the stability of marriage 35yrs. and counting.

I got bad news for you, one of you is going to die alone. Unless the pair of you decide to Thelma & Louise it.

If screws in the ass if things go south. Again WHY does someone NEED a license from the government to get married?

I bet momma hasn't been happy for a long time

Married 40 going on 41 years so I guess I will say married

You're another that has zero concept of today's world. Here's one hint, kids don't play kick the can anymore.

Depends on her asset and income level.

Menopause can be tough on women, some lose their way in life.

Which is better?

When I answered the first time, I was thinking of my current situation. Mileage and results may very for others.

My kids are grown. She still has one at home. Marriage boils down to contract, per my divorce lawyer. I ain’t taking on any financial liabilities for a feral teenager.

At work, they pay a full single policy, so that’s another financial positive for us.

So if your done having kids, I would not get married.

The area of the country I live in. White trash shack up long term. Decent people marry. That is the perception here. Maybe we are backwards here.

It's not so much the Menopause, it the midlife crisis. About half of divorces occur during a midlife crisis.

Shack up then get married

The tax laws are telling you to shack up long term if both of you are bringing lots of real estate into the picture. First off they tax married folks higher here than they do single people which is called the marriage penalty. Then if one of you sells a property that isn't their primary residence, capital gains are all on the person that owns it. Marry that person and that capital gains income becomes both of your tax implication.

I believe Adultery is defined as those who are in Holy Matrimony that go outside of their vows and have sex with other married or unmarried people.

Shacking up most likely falls under fornication which may or may not be a lesser type of sin.

Opinions vary widely, no doubt.

At any rate, it’s hard to pass on a chance to try and knock the bottom out of it when the occasion presents itself.

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak so to speak.

Then shack up again after the divorce is finalized.

a piece of paper or a ring doesn't make a marriage.

I feel confident my wife and I would be together now whether it was official or not. We've never been at the level of discourse that we talked about going our separate ways

If there is no transcendental, supernatural God, then "marriage" is meaningless superstition and there is no rational source for any kind of objective morality. Did the concept of marriage "evolve" from adaptations to that happened to reduce more frequent homicide in cultures where monogamy was ambiguous? Clearly, it was adopted as a control mechanism for authoritarian powers to sanction certain unions while prohibiting others and taxing them all, but that came well after the institution of marriage. So if it was first adopted as a survival mechanism, can a person or society come to terms with its status as an arcane ritual and just dispense with it? Why not as individuals dispense with all morality if we know it only ever came about as a cultural adaptation for survival? Why do we have to be the ones that behave according to the arcane moralities, and how do we know we're not ones that can forsake morality and do whatever seems to be in our own interest?

We can all justify what we do.

I find nothing arcane in leading a moral life. Most all of the world’s problems, past and present, stem from the misuse of free will.

Jmo

A lot of em’ go crazy at 40 for the reason that AS mentioned above; and as he’s mentioned before, 80% of divorces are initiated by them, and they have a financial incentive for doing so.

That said, “violating marriage vows” is often interpreted by many as infidelity/adultery. And infidelity/adultery is NOT the only way that marriage vows can be violated.

Neither,at this point in my life,looking back........I wouldn't bother with a full time ,live in chick.
Nor would i ever get married,i would just have good times for a while and move on,nothing serious,nothing big or heavy or emotional,just have fun with them,and thats that.I'd be upfront with them,i wouldn' t string anyone along or B.S. them,i'd be truthfull from the start,if they were cool with that,fine,if not ? See Ya ! An old Dockbuilder i worked with years ago told me,"THE F ING YOU GET AIN'T WORTH THE F ING YOU TAKE!" Sound advice Bobby,wish i would've listened.

The more I read about some of the women here, the more I realize how Blessed I am.

The Book of Proverbs spells it out fairly plain for those who take time to read it.

Shack up, less to lose bcs the gubmint system is rigged against the work man.

One man's problems are another man's opportunities. Whose morals do you live?

Isn’t a right answer for all.

Lots would disapprove of how ive lived my life.

Didn’t live it for them or their ideas of what’s right.

Lived it for me & her, worked out pretty dang well too.

True, and neither will prevent one from running around if they so desire. Been my argument for decades.

Moral relativism eh?



Whose judgment matters anyway?



Well you know, some people have their reward. "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things."

I found two good women, still care for the first, but she is difficult to get along with, oldest daughter has hell with her at times. My second is easy, doesn’t sweat the small cshit.

Whose?
My own. I’ll be the one and only one to answer for them.

I disagree that one’s problems are another’s opportunity. I don’t view life as a zero sum affair.

In life, some get a little more, some get a little less but in the end we’ll all get what we deserve.
Jmo

Let me explain the modern woman one more time for some of you old farts. Its not your girl, its just your turn.

Smart phone/ social media addiction is a real killer for women. Put them in a place where they are never content.

Some guys get sucked into it but the female brain can’t handle it.

Interesting very few follow the Bible anymore. Of course that is in the Bible that it will come to that also. It is simply a sign of the times we are in these days.

I offer that not knowing the Bible and God is not good in the end. I know YMMV, but ours is chosen. Be careful how you choose your futures

Married.

Depends on your age and the financial status of both parties. The older I get the less likely I will want to get married. Im 59 and date women from 40-62. The more financially secure they are the less they want to be married. Most of the women I date are business women. I wanted to say professional but with you guys I thought that was risky.

Money, money, money, whose got the money. If you are both broke, go for it. If she has all the money, go for it. If you have all the money, just move in together. You will lose your a$$ in a divorce.

the question is, "Do you want to live in iniquity or not?"

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

Don't know them, have no desire to know them. Kind of like the Owners I deal with these days and their Reps. Scumbag lying never keep their word A-holes for the most part, and by and large 30 something never worked a day in their life doing anything but computer crap.

Sure SWMBO bust my chops about spending on hunting and shooting stuff and I sail blithely on, when she has valid concerns of dollars I listen. I don't golf or fish, don't stop by the bar on the way home from work. She has kept my house, kept other snot nosed kids for money when younger. We understood for better or worse, that is was not an idle promise. I have been lucky in that she is an easy keeper. She has her nuances, as do I, but it was supposed to be a partnership.

When she had her kidney transplant, after the couple of weeks in the hospital and in the hotel in Nashville for us to stay close to check things, she opined I was not worth a chit most of the time, but was the best fugger she knew in a crisis. I will take that as the sideazzed compliment she meant it to be.

The world is not peaches and cream, it is sickness and death and kids that disappoint and friends that aren't. I watched her take care of her Veteran Father when he got dementia and I have never been prouder of a person, it was hard on her and her two very successful brothers could not be bothered. Takes a special kind of person to wipe her Daddy's hinney and put up with his mean treatment of her whilst doing it, she cried when he spit on her, but she showed up.

I have a very few really good friends I can count on, and for some reason they are in their late 60s early 70s, to my original point I think "modern" society/people might have something to do with all that...

We lived together for a few months before we got married.

Been married since 2005.

GFY

A Proverbs 31 woman…

With a badonkadonk…!

It's not my wife that makes me so glad to have her.
Without listening to other guys stories,
I wouldn't realize how good she is!

Married

Lots of hurt feelers in this thread.

If there's kids involved, not getting married is just wrong. Sorry, I don't mean biblically, it's just not right.

If there's no kids and you're just fugk buddies, who cares.

I did shack up with my wife for about 7 months, but it wasn't until we were engaged, it was a money saving decision. I understand everybody's situation is different, and by no means do I mean to come off like I'm sitting in judgement. Just offering my opinion on the matter.

BGG,

Feelers are often too close to the surface. There hasn't been much
in this thread to get too excited about. Just opinions, mostly.

Many just don't take kindly to not getting afirmation.

Great thread.

Never been married. Shacked up with a few. Had regrets about one in particular, but it’s all about timing and if you’re both ready at the time.

Have good, older married friends who’ve talked me off the ledge anytime I thought about marrying one. “Don’t do it! You have no idea how lucky you are!” they’d say. They were right.

My father always said “The only reason to be married is to give your children a name”. I’m well past the age for making kids.

I’ve rolled along and watched my best friend who was married for 1/4 century, who I never thought would get divorced, have his wife leave him. Went hunting and came home to a note on the counter, house emptied, bank account emptied.

Talked to 3 other buddies where the same happened; 25-30 years of marriage and the wife bails.

Like others here have said, it’s a different world now. When my parents were married, marriages lasted. Women were more dependent on men, now they don’t need men really.

BTW, I’ve seriously never dated one that could successfully boil water…

I think you will find that people shacking up are less financially secure than those that are married.

My wife of 38 years (almost 39 since we shacked up) is the primary reason we're financially secure.

We are the sum of our decisions in life. Good job!

Been married almost 36 years and consider myself lucky. I sure as he'll don't see where a piece of paper or ring means a damn thing if your committed to one another. I've never wore or owned a wedding ring and my wife hardly ever wears her wedding rings.

My wife and I have been married 43 1/2 yrs. Dated 3 yrs prior to getting married. Have known each other since we were 8 yrs old. We are both 64 so we've known each other for 56 yrs, started dating our senior yr of high school. Have 3 kids, 4 grandkids with #5 due June 2022. Could not imagine a day without her. Love has no bounderies!! I am a very lucky man!

I've read stories (written by John Barsnes) that would lead one to
believe that you have taught her bad financial habits.

Like buying expensive guns and hunting trips!😁

Depends on the woman....

only have really wanted to marry one girl... and she's still out there... it never happened... my fault on that one... young and stupid...

first wife I never wanted to marry... but I was getting hassled constantly by my hen pecking mom.. demanding I owned her grand children.. all her friends had them, and she didn't so I owned her... so I married who I was going out with and thought I could get along with her.... bad bad mistake...

Second wife, good person, good wife... but still not the gal of my dreams...

I'll admit that between first and second wife, I sure did a lot of 'shacking up".. did the same in college.... it wasn't hard when your college has a 7 to 1 ratio of women to guys...
State Teachers College...

If I would be able to wind back the clock of time, I'd have traded away ALL of the others to have spent a life time with that ONE girl.. forever...

I got it, you want government involved in everything. Birth to death.