just got our second lab puppy, our first one is going on 10 years old and gettng older. We decided to go ahead and get a pup now so he is grown up with the first dog. He is an awesome pup and doing everything we can reasonably expect from him. he loves the whole family, I just can't imagine a better dog. the rage now days seems to breed in poodle with labs creating these doodle dogs. my buddy has a pudle pointer. All my neighbors have these labradoodles. guess what, they all suck as dogs. They seem to have no soul to them. you're removing the gun dog hunting aspect of them. and they just don't seem like warm friendly dogs. The pudel pointer, mutes the pointer to an extent, and just makes the dog look cool and thats it. IMO people are breeding dogs for looks, not for practicality and temperament. I simply don't get the thinking.

Same here, we'll just stick everyday run-of-mill but never boring Labs

I disagree. This labradoodle was the best dog I've ever had.

This poodle is smart as hell. Really good boy..

To each his own

“Ruining” a lab lol

Pudelpointers have been bred for hunting since ~1880. As with any breed, you'll likely find those that can.. and those that can't.
Labradoodles on the other hand appear to have been bred for soccer mom's that abhor vacuuming. There may be good ones . . But I've never met one.

So how do you train one of these Labradoodles? With a 2x4 wrapped in pink fur?

Me - I'll just stick with the standard lab/2x4 combination. Been working for me for years!

Can't speak to labradoodles, but our poodle mix is about the warmest dog with more personality than any I've known. She's awesome, but sheds like crazy. I'm gonna start the next base layer craze with dogwool. I'll make millions.

This^^^^^

The Mrs. has a mini Goldendoodle. It's never been anything but a lap dog, I once saw a squirrel chase it off the porch, it's never been trained to do anything. Everytime someone comes into the house or even in to the room where the dog is she runs around the house and finds a dog toy and delivers it to that person retriever style.

Our golden doodle is the best dog I've ever had.

Not mean bone and good around kids.

Has chosen the wife as his person, she calls him her supervisor.

Except for the occasional "ghost turd" doesn't shed.

I had a labradoodle that looked a lot like yours. Very smart, amazingly athletic and obedient dog. She knew a bagfull of tricks and could learn another one in a few minutes with the help of a few treats. She was my pal for 9 years until cancer got her in 2015. I still miss her.

According to this study, dog breed is not a predictor of behavior.

Of course it looks to have been done by a bunch of women so consider the source.

They aren't bred for hunting so I don't know why you are complaining. They are bred as non-shedding companion dogs, and they are damn good ones.

The Dutchman Korthal bred the bloodhound, shorthair and poodle over 100 years ago to get our modern day Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. Hundreds of thousands of griff owners (like myself) call bullsh t on your ridiculous posting.

The wife’s golden doodle is the calmest dog I’ve everbeen around. She has one speed 99% of the time, and it is off.

If I could keep her from retrieving sticks she’d be a good fishing partner.

If dumb and fat are your goals, then labs are great. 😃

There is something to be said about that non-shedding thing. MacGregor, my 120# Yellow Lab shed enough to raise the nap in the carpeting and my smaller longer haired Englash Springer was nearly as bad. The family members have had two Poodle Pointers and while a little strange looking to my eyes, they were and are bird hunting machines. The brother-in-law and his wife have been raising Australian Doodles for a few years and shipped them all over the country and have netted over seven figures doing it. Someone is buying those designer dogs.

Is that the same sort of idea as adding groid spoils the human breed? Just askin'!

Maybe all your neighbors suck as dog owners.

Tell that to a Jack Russell.

Huh. Mine certainly don't fit either part of that description. But I've only owned Labs for 52 years and been breeding them for 20 years so..




That's a fact! Neighbors two doors up drove from Western Oregon to Central Utah to buy a labradoodle, It was the result of an unplanned mating. They spent 3,000 bucks on it.. No papers, no health clearances, no titles, etc. Being generous, it really is one of the dumbest animals I have ever witnessed. However judging from some of the other responses here it seems that other owners are very happy with theirs, so perhaps my neighbor's dog is an exception.

I've had Labs and Lab -mixes (never with a poodle!) for over 50 years. Never had any that were fat , nor dumb. I do admit that Grizzly had me fooled for a year or so when we first got him, then he blew it on the smarts part. We were his 3rd owner, and he was 3 when we got him, and it turned out he just didn't believe in following commands, tho he knew them all (each previous owner put him through obedience school).

After 10 days in a commercial kennel in Fairbanks while we were in Cabo, he suddenly knew and followed all those commands on our return. Like turning a light switch on! . He apparently decided we actually were his family, and wasn't taking a chance on getting again abandoned by us. He was for companion, but turned into a fair hunter as well. Nailed blind retrieves in 3 lessons.


My current rescue Honey HalfLab may not be Lab at all - could be Gold Ret. instead. Worst shedding dog we have ever had, and I thought the last full Lab was bad! Plus she has village sled dog, probably with some whippet in her. Some day I may have her genes tested, but probably not. At first I thought she was a bit on the stupid side, but it was just ignorance on both our parts. She just wasn't able to experience or learn much for the first 18 months of her life on the end of a chain, but boy did she catch on fast!!!. With my first and last full Labs, she is in the top 3 for smarts of all the dogs I've had. Spayed, but she isn't getting fat. Food portioning, which she is adamantly against, and 2 mile minimum daily walks (she insists!) see to that.

There is a saying: "If your dog is getting fat, you aren't getting enough exercise!"

Poodles.... were bred originally as hunting dogs, water and field, and good ones at that. Some still are- most have been turned into lap/cool-decorator pedigreed mutts.

My wife just returned from visiting cousins in AZ. One cuz has a rescue mini-poodle which has lost one eye and one ear. On getting a new stuffed animal, the dog immediately chews off one eye and one ear. Then he is happy with it.

I find that fascinating!

An acquaintance when we were in Kotzebue spent $3000 on a Labradoodle for the non-shedding quality. Well, that's only a 75% crap shoot. He got the 25 % pile of shedding fur. LMAO!

I've seen a well trained few................compared the abundance of them since they became popular "pets".......................very few.

We have very well trained whippets...............................................until they see something the just have to chase.....................and that's a common behavior for the breed which apparently no training can conquer

Hybridization is almost always a good thing...if the parent subjects are good.

Lot of the poodles in Chicago Indy and Baltimore seem to be problematic.

Are you sure it's not your neighbors?

Some folks just can't seem to train a dog....................or keep them in shape........................and they end up with fat dumb dogs..........designer breed or not.

Oh no, I'm certain the owners in this case are an important contributor to the dogs outcome! A liberal professor...

Cross a pitbull and and a whippet and you get a jrt.
Fact.

Liberals believe in discussions with misbehaving children and dogs, not active training and disciple.

The results never vary, and they just can't get it.

Oh my, not one of those...........we'll let the dog decide what it wants to do types?

What's a jrt?

Jack Russell Terrier

Nailed it! I can't stand to be around the animal. It's either always licking your hands or jumping up on you

Geno,
How do the whippets fair when after a jackrabbit?

Ah!

Anyone who compares a pudelpointer with a labradoodle is talking out their caboose and it smells.

Depends on how smart the rabbit is?

When we lived in AZ our mixed breed (Val) and my wife's first whippet (Jasmine) got after one. Rabbit ran up the bank out of the draw we were in, got over the crest a bit, jogged hard right...........whippet was hot on its trail but flew up over the crest of the bank as the rabbit was coming back down 20 yards or so from where it went up. Jasmine came back to the edge and was looking around like....."What the hell?"

Big enough, open enough field, especially with a few dogs, the jack might be in serious trouble. Jasmine and Val used to tag team squirrels in the stormwater settling basins when wife lived in the Valley. More than one thought they were smarter, and faster and ended up a chew toy. Probably the squirrels were used to fat Labradors chasing them.

Same goes for comparing the doodles to a poodle from hunting lines.

My daughter and SIL have a labradoodle that looks pretty much like this dog. It is a retrieving rocket, and though my SIL is not a hunter, I’m pretty sure it would make a very good flusher; he obviously got the “go-get-it” gene.

I've watched this dumb, fat Lab catch/kill quite a few of them. I need to get over to the dry side and give her a run at jackrabbits for real sport.

what would i be without you

I watched an old timer pheasant hunt with a standard poodle once.. that dog was straight wicked! Very impressive

That lab does not appear to be owned by a "liberal professor"

No sir!

I think it's more the breeders pumping out expensive puppies than the breed. I've seen dogs that were half poodle , that were great dogs, but their Mom wasn't their Sister and their Dad wasn't their Grandpaw.............for 5 generations.

I knew this would be like goring someone's sacred cow. But my opinion is that it takes otherwise good looking dogs and makes them uglier than hell.

I’ve heard good and bad things about labradoodles but have no first hand experience around them. If I wanted a non shedding house pet a standard poodle would seem to fit the bill without crossing it to a Lab but again I’ve never been around a labradoodle maybe it brings something else to the table but I doubt it.

I’m an English Setter guy. My first two were out of field trial stock but had awesome off switches in the house. My current one is out of a Ryman “dual purpose line” that is supposed to be more laid back he isn’t bad in the house but is the most high strung of the three that I’ve had.

I like bird hunting and bird dogs but you usually take the good with the bad IMO. A calm well trained dog out of hunting or field trial lines tends to have more energy and enthusiasm that a standard house pet. It’s tough to breed in mega prey drive and the desire to run themselves bloody and to exhaustion without also having some carryover enthusiasm when the doorbell rings or a squirrel, bird ect is outside the window.

Don't think I've ever seen a fat lab that didn't have a fat owner.

Both are overfed and lacking in exercise.

That Lab looks fairly intense and fit to me and looks to be out of a field trial or a hunting line.

Poodles are great dogs if you establish pecking order firmly.
In the 1970s, our kennel was one champion GSP and two registered miniature poodles. What a pheasant hunting team they made. The sissy dogs wore wool sweaters my Grandma knitted and were amazing pointers. Sometimes the burrs got a little thick, and neither could retrieve, but they could find.

Or maybe it's the neighborhood.

Careful, I had a dog that loved to chase rabbits. One day she took off chasing one and came back on 3 legs. Blown out knee, about $4,000. worth as I recall.

Moto,
That's unfortunate for sure. And expensive..

A scroll through NAVHDA scores would make that apparent. I'm a bit biased as Hank is a PP and to date the best all around dog I've ever been around. He doesn't do bad on the birds and would very likely be better if I had more experience training him and lived in a place where getting him on wild birds was easier.

DSCN2300 by .com/photos/150924633@N06/]Tyler Staggs, on [bleep]

This is her right now, demanding attention..

"The Poodle, called the Pudel in German and the Caniche in French, is a breed of water dog. The breed is divided into four varieties based on size, the Standard Poodle, Medium Poodle, Miniature Poodle and Toy Poodle, although the Medium Poodle variety is not universally recognized.

The Poodle most likely originated in Germany, although it is also claimed to be from France. The Standard Poodle was originally used by wildfowl hunters to retrieve game from water. The smaller varieties of the breed were bred from the original in France where they were once commonly used as circus performers, but have become popular companion dogs.

Whatever the Poodle's country of origin, both their German and French breed names indicate the modern Poodle's ancestors were widely used by waterfowlers both to retrieve shot game and to recover lost arrows and bolts that had missed their mark. The breed's distinctive lion coat clip developed as a practicality when they were used as waterfowler's dogs, with the long hair around the chest providing insulation for the dog's vitals in freezing water, while the shorn hindquarters reduced drag whilst swimming and the tufts of hair on the legs provided purchase in the water."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poodle

We have a 2 year old here at the house recovering from blowing out his ligaments............chasing his "brother"..............who was chasing a loose dog outside the schoolyard fence where we were throwing the frisbee for him. Horrible day, and he'll likely never compete in lure coursing or agility as was the plan.

Friggen dogs will do what they do though.....

Dandy brother Dan 👊🏻

Jules saying, "Dude get off the Fire and let's go kill stuff!"

Oh I bet!!

Mines waiting for me to get home, fire up the bbq, smoke some lamb gyros and have a bourbon 👊🏻

She's a beauty, Jud. Coming along very nicely
You'll have to get her on some geese this Fall

so that is what you get along with usually a dog that is a good hunting dog as well. one of my labs I had 10 years ago was dang near human. he knew my mood as I walked in the door. when I die, I want that dog with me. The labradoodle thing isn't a sample of one, its ALL of them, probably a dozen or so I have seen. infact my neighbor used to breed them. I always thought that is a POS dog and not worth a plug nickel. So you're breeding out the hunting aspect of the dog. as for the shedding, our current black lab is not bad at all, it seems like its only certain times we have seen measureable shedding from the 4 total labs we have owned. NONE of it was bad enough to get concerned with. so the shedding argument doesn't fly with me. Perhaps people with shedding issues had dogs with lots more retriever in them, those are wooley and sheddy.

I read no too long ago the person who claims to have ‘started’ the whole labradoodle thing is very sorry he did. Says it was his biggest mistake as a dog breeder.

I’ve never had a bad lab so I’m sticking with them.

LOL!!!
OP saying all the dogs in his neighbor suck..


Newsflash..

Those dogs are the alpha,s in their pack dna thinking.
Cause the human owners aint being the alpha over their dog..


Dog 101
Dogs of lower status always work to the alpha,s will and want the acknowledgement of doing good from the alpha
Whether the alpha be canine or human.

I bet their aint a single dog in that neighborhood that bows or sideways or downwards presents it head with its tail wagging to its human and then boom heads up happy and bouncy from intial acknowledgement of its presence around its human.




Some people shouldn't have dogs.

Fuuuck even Hitler trained his own dog.....

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I am always the alpha with my dogs. They are always looking to me for direction. Often just body gestures needed, no words even spoken.
They know who rules the roost!

Are your neighbors using them for hunting or is this all just your opinon being a lab owner and the heresy of what you perceive as lab is solely for in your way of thinking???

Fuucking neighbors dogs....

How the fuuuck are they affecting you this deeply????

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️😏😏🤣

1st time since 1993 I havent had a dog or dogs loyal to me.
Wife got her redbone coonhound Brady
Daughter got her greyhound/ choc lab mix and whatever else he is mix Baylor.
Them dogs get away with murder with those 2.
Me...
They obey, but soon as them women get home.
They go Benedict Arnold fast on me.

I dont even know if I will ever get another pup.
Cant go thru digging more graves and having a peice of me die anymore.

Baylor and Brady are enough to have in my life right now.

Dogs need a leader.
Dogs want a leader.
Dogs want the acknowledgement of a leader for a job well done.
Whether that leader is human or canine.

We have a pointy haired wired griffon now that is growing on us. Before her we had a golden doodle, what I called a Pooh retriever and she was the sweetest most empathetic dog ever. She made it 10 years and cancer got her. She was such a kind and fun dog. She could predict when I was going to have a flare up of spondylitis and she knew which joints it was going to hit. She'd come over and sniff an ankle and then lick it for a second and look at me like I'm sorry this one's going to hurt. She'd then stay by my side and even try to lay next to me until the flare up had came and gone. She helped me get through some incredibly painful nights. She was smart and very good and gentile with kids. I've never known a kinder dog.

Our Griff is smart but hard headed. It took a bit of time and work to get her kennel trained but everything else she picked up really quickly. She got extremely car sick her first year so I didn't get her out in the field like I should have. She was pretty confident and didn't seem scared of anything the first year. We could shoot around her then and she really wanted to come out for fireworks around the 4th but we never let her.

Sometime into her second year she started acting gun shy a bit. I got her out pheasant hunting and she stayed right under my feet. She didn't run off with shooting but she was a little shy about it and nervous acting⁰. We spent some time later hiding birds and having her find them and she found everyone quickly and very deliberately no matter where we hid them. She even found one on top of the fridge in the garage and locked up pointing up there. I cleaned and cooked a pheasant in front of her and gave her some and after that she's been getting a lot more excited about birds.

I'm hopeful as she gets excited about birds she'll be less nervous about guns. She's getting her hips xrayed next week and then DNA tests and vision. She's 2.5 years old and will be in heat again soon. If she passes everything she has a date with a Griff that won the state field trials. A judge from the trials saw her and insisted we get the two together. We could have pups in about 3 months.

She has good lines I just didn't do enough with her because shes really my first bird dog. We plan on keeping a pup and getting it right into training with someone that knows what they're doing hunting wise. I paid a guy to do 12 days of training with her but he really didn't do anything but take our money. Actually it was after she was with him she started acting gun shy.

Bb

Yep. Good post Rene. Some women will ruin a good dog.
And some man bun wearing latte drinking soy boy effeminate “men” will too !

Let’s see if this works

Never had much time for the Lab/Poodle breed. Then a few years ago the woman and I were at a local winery and the owners had the "grandbaby" miniature labradoodle there.

I would have taken that dog home that night. Playful and smart as a whip, and cute too.

If we ever get a dog (I have a cat as we tend to travel a lot) it'll be a miniature doodle. She actually wants one now but I'm not ready yet.

And for the record I've always loved yellow labs. Big smart beautiful dogs. Love all labs actually

Yep, to many people don’t understand that. The ones that don’t have kids and substitutes animals for them are the worst sometimes. I figure it’s best most of them don’t have kids.

Pudelpointers ain’t a fancy new poodle cross. The breed is over a 100 years old and they are pretty fantastic gun dogs as a whole.

I’m biased too

Mbogo,
That's a beautiful animal!

If you want a dog for a specific task, find someone that breeds and uses the dogs for that task.

Mom and pop breeders that don’t do schit with their dogs have ruined more than a few lines and breeds.

Love a lab though too

That’s a badass dog!! 👊🏻

I’ve got what they call the Drahthaar addiction now. Hank is my first one and not once have I thought “wish I had my lab”.

Couple more. If it runs, flies or crawls he’ll hunt it.

That is a good looking dog for sure. I had a Brittany that was the same way. Purist would tell me that brittanys aren’t supposed to do this or that,... oh well, apparently neither one of us had gotten the memo!

We can agree to disagree on the worth of labradoodles

Fuuck ya, killer dog!! I was on roger greens list, my chocolate lab died unexpectedly, so we picked my yellow up. Gonna wait a couple years for the drathaar now. Super cool dogs, neat history. Think they’ll hunt about anything 👊🏻

Jud, for sure they’ll hunt anything.I know guys that run them with and without hounds on lions, hogs and bears. And they’ll blood track your gut shot elk and deer too. We just finished testing and certification for breeding last year with Hank. Looking in the near future for a female to take through the process too. Then maybe a litter here and there. If I was going to be in it to make money though, the foo foo dogs are where it’s at.

It’s just what we like man! I never let someone tell me what my taste in women should be, trucks I like, huntin gear etc. I grew up with hounds and labs, I love a labs looks, personality, disposition etc, I’ll never not have one in my life. 👍

Hell ya, nice work. Kurt on here, “aka 30 338” has a couple he hunts quite a bit. Damn fine dogs

No doodle in the labra.

Yeah, Kurt’s younger dog is a brother to mine. We ran the VJP test together in Colorado. In fact all the dogs in our group for that test were out of this same litter. One other male besides ours and two females that the breeder was running. It was quite the event.

What kennel you purchase from if ya don’t mind me asking?

Mark Heuer. Vom Heuerhaus in Cheyenne WY. I had a similar experience with my dogs. Lost my choco lab in Oct of 19’ at age 8 (twisted gut) then lost my GSP a month later. He was almost 15. First time in 35 years I went through a hunting season without a gun dog. But the silver lining was being able to talk the wife into one. She and my daughters always thought they were ugly but Hank won them over.

Ya he’s a sexy sumbitch! 👊🏻

Great pics too

Some dog sled racers up here like to breed Whippet into their racing dogs for speed and size. About 45 lbs is the goal. Honey's weight. Her body proportions seem to indicate Whippet strain as well.

Dunno about jack rabbits, but the Honey Bucket is death on half-grown snowshoes, even , on occasion, a full-grown. She's damned quick! The Wunder Wiener ferrets them out, and Honey gets them.

Dynamic Duo....

Dog for that times, figure it out

That's prolly one of the most beautiful dogs I've ever seen

🤔🤔🤔👍👍👍 all purpose hunter killer!!!

I see goldendoodles in the park where I walk my dogs regularly. Ain’t met a one yet I was impressed with.

Typical owner had the dog fixed/spayed too young, also nobody uses collars and leashes anymore, collars must be considered cruel, everyone uses harnesses, a setup which rewards the dog for pulling.

More’n anything tho, as already pointed out here, the people breeding these things ain’t too concerned about functional bloodlines.

my problem with the strictly working dogs like the pointers, drawthars, etc. they make terrible family dogs. They are too ubber high strung on hunting only. If the dog doesn't make a good family dog I don't want them. but I do hunt them a few times a year so I need a hunting dog as well. having a lab is the perfect mix of that. doesn't hurt that my 9 year old lab is also a pointing lab, he holds on birds till you get a shot. a rare trait in a lab.

Oh bullshiit, it’s called attention, socialization and spending time with him/her. My new dog is 7 months, acts like a 15 yo except when it’s play time. She has and is with us constantly. That’s what makes a good dog. 👊🏻

Does your buddy perhaps have a "Pudelpointer"? It's not the same thing as the newfangled "poodle" crosses.

Maybe it's a puddle pointer??

15 years ago, this was my pAck of hounds.


Now this is it

You are one dump phuc.Standard poodles were bred in Germany as an all around hunting dog.They are exceptional water dogs and can point naturally.Poodle means puddle in German.I will put my Standard poodles against any all around hunting dog .Of course if you breed a poodle with some mutt lab you will probably not get much.Breed a hunting poodle with a hunting lab and you will have some thing.Every ass hole and his brother are buying any poodle and breeding with any lab or golden and you get what you bred.

We have 2 Goldendoodles.

They are the best 2 dogs we have EVER had.

They are smart, obedient, athletic as hell, and great hunters. Neither is hard headed at all - they have very loving and calm personalities. They literally don't shed a single hair.

Finn is the athlete and master hunter on the left. Stella is the motherly supervisor, on the right.

For sure, terrible house dog.

As another owner of 2 griffs, I agree

Every labradoodle and golden doodle I have come across has been a friendly dog. And dumber than a box of rocks.

I don;t like the looks of them and I don;t like them being functional doggie retards. To get hte looks right and the docility, they have to inbreed a whole bunch.

================

Also, not all cross-breeds or hybrids are good. There is such a thing as "outbreeding depression" that produces undesirable traits similar to inbreeding. You've liklely come across such dogs: funny-looking and good for only turning dog food into dog poop.

Cumminscowboy, I’m noticing a trend in your posts. You say you just got a second lab. Is this your second dog overall or just second lab? How much experience do you have with a “strictly working dog”? What makes good dogs is that first, they know their place in the pecking order. They are not the boss. They need structure and accountability in their lives to be happy. Second they need a job. It doesn’t matter what that is, as long as you give it to them, teach them and expect them to perform it. You say you want your younger dog to grow up with the older one. I hope you don’t mean learn from the older dog. On my experience they don’t learn anything but bad habits with this. All of this comes from YOU and not leaving them to their own devices. Anyone can train a dog. It just takes consistency, time and patience. If you don’t have any of that, the dog suffers immensely. Then you have a dog that you alluded to in the first post.

A hunting dog cant make a good family dog...

What a total bullschit post....


Maybe you oughta go back to stuff you know about..
Like making some rube goldberg contraption out of a garden hose hanger to test scopes on at a playground...

Nice house dogs for women. Not much personality , intelligence and not very trainable but they dont shed. There are worse dogs, but not for me

What do they hunt beside warm sofas?


Have any hunting pics?

Hound breeds are one of the most human centric dogs their are.
Long history dating back 1000,s of years.

👍👍👍

You are speaking in broad strokes, and it sounds like you have no clue what you are talking about..

My Goldendoodles are F1 crosses - full bred,, papered Goldens, crossed with full bred, papered Poodles. There is no "inbreeding". These are the non-hypo-allergenic great dogs most speak of, and probably make up most of the "designer doodle" market.. Their intellect is a cross between a poodle and a golden - they are AMAZINGLY intelligent.

There are other crosses (F2, and Flb, for example), that are a much smaller subset of these breeds, and people who sell all kinds of mutts as "doodles".. It sounds like those chitjeads are YOUR peer group. So, maybe find some new friends.

Oy vey!!! The doodles🙄🙄 again. Hey Jud, I do have an Instagram account that’s more or less dedicated to this dog if you want more pics and videos. Same handle.

Stella (on the right) is an old soul. She is my wife's dog, and just an outstanding companion. I've never hunted her, because when she was growing up my lab was the duck hunter, and she is gun/thunder shy. Like I said, she is the old school marm in the family (5 y.o.)

But my lab is now gone, so......

Finn (on the left) will be a monster duck dog. He is ~18 mo old so I did not hunt him last season. But he is rock solid on hand and verbal commands (a la Wolters water dog) and has pointed/flushed/retrieved dozens of pheasants and chukars the last few months at my club. He is gonna be a STUD on ducks. He is smart as chit and has so much drive it blows my mind.

Baylor...
AKA: Dogzilla


Mixed breed greyhound/ Lab/ god knows what else.

House pet extrodinaire.
Daughters rescue dog
Chase's and Trees squirrels
Points at Birds
Chases em as they lift off the ground
Goes after rabbits along fenceline.
Hates buzzards.
Have no doubt if he was trained as a pup he would have been a good multi tasking hunting dog.

Mutt....
Aka pure breed american cheesehound

I guess the cowboy has never met or hunter with a pudelpointer, great family and hunting dogs.

I love mine, she is still a puppy bit has an incredible drive for birds, points like a champ and retirieves well. My vet commented she is one of the most social dogs she ever seen, loves everyone and other dogs.

I have allergies to dogs, she doesn’t bother me at all and no shedding.

So your dogs have never been on wild birds? lol.

What does a master hunter mean regarding a bird dog? Having owned and trained bird dogs over 40 years a master bird dog has at least 3 to 5 years on hundreds of WILD bird contacts . But Am sure you have a different definition. I 'll take a puppy on hunting preserves to establish prey drive but after a season on wild birds my dogs all limit out on a preserve hunting in 30 min. Its boring after wild birds No contest on wild pressured running roosters, chukars on public land late season and pressured huns and and sharpies. And there is a dog who will do 200 yard blind retrieves in ice conditions on ponds lakes and rivers on waterfowl

I have yet to see a labradoodle do this on wild birds but please post some pics of this

another neighbor complained they have to have their labradoodle shaved all the time and it costs $60 bucks a shave. a few posters said dumb as a box of rocks YES that would describe every labradoodle I have seen, they are the rage around me.
to those saying how awesome the poodles are as hunting dogs, I have NEVER seen a poodle hunting on any of the pheasant farms I have been to. its brittany spaniels, german shorthairs, labs and a few drathars. oh and my buddy has that pudel pointer which turned out to be a barely acceptable hunting dog after tons and tons of training, but otherwise is one of the most annoying dogs I have ever been around. meanwhile my lab has never needed a licks worth of hunting training, lets kids lay on him and the kids fight over who gets him in their room at night.

look people have crap dogs and don't know no better, losa opsas, the numerous terrier breeds, [bleep], chiwawa's all their owners think they are the best dogs ever, but they suck.

Yeah, but was he a Fast Food Pointer, like my Fred was? He pointed every such place we passed when traveling, and looked offended when we didn't stop.

Fred was supposed to be Choc Lab/ Chessie cross - all 35 lbs of him. I think there was a Springer in the woodpile there. We had a Cockatiel at the time, so he was taught to leave the bird alone when it was out of the cage. One dy when I opened the cage, Roxy flew out and landed on Fred's back. Freaked them both out!

So I took him grouse hunting one day. After a couple encouragements ( "Am I not to leave birds alone???? ) he went out to retrieve the bird. Lot's of hacking and coughing over the loose feathers in his mouth. The bird was a bit large for his mouth anyway.

He solved the problem by pushing the bird along the ground with his nose to me.

Now THAT is a great retriever! .

He didn't do road traffic well tho.

Now you’re just showing off your ignorance. You don’t train or teach a dog to hunt. This is ingrained in them and through proper breeding, enhanced and passed on to other generations. They either have it or they don’t. If they do have it, train them in obedience and expose them to every opportunity you can whether it’s with birds, rabbits, bears or tennis balls.

Oh yeah, what’s a pheasant farm? Is that one of those places where you pay a bunch of money to someone to throw a broken tailed ditch parrot into the air so you can shoot it with two ounces of four shot (cause you know they’re tough) and then brag about a ten foot retrieve that my wife’s Bichon could have accomplished?

Lol, tell me more about dogs.

Expensive mutts you got on yo couch.

Glad to hear they fit your hunting to a tee!

I am sure they are out there, but I have yet to meet a doodle that was anything other than goofy and aloof, and I have met a lot. I am sure there are exceptions. I have yet to meet one that was a hunter. I am sure there are exceptions. CC didn't word it quite correctly, but dogs that come from a strictly hunting lineage can have a LOT of hunting drive and may in fact not make as good of a pet. I see this at the park in a few labs and GSPs. They don't spend any time socializing with people or dogs. They are constantly dropping balls at their owner's feet, demanding retrieves. Those are the exceptions. Talking to the owners, that's just the way the dogs are wired. Wherever they are they just want to work. It's also not uncommon for purely hunting dogs to be kept in kennels with very little human interaction until it's time to hunt. I see this with dogs that are used for rabbit hunting, coon hunting and deer hunting. Some duck hunters do this with their labs.

I have a good bud who has a poodle that is an insanely good duck dog. That happens. It's not the norm.

Terriers, Shih Tzus and Chihuahuas are fine dogs that will be good companions for their entire lives.

Not every dog has to be a Lab to be a good dog.

Yes that is worded better! Also I agree you don’t train the instinct to hunt per say. But after my buddy had the pudelpointer fetch and chew on pheasant wings for long enough the dog did actually hunt. The first few outings before that my lab had to find all the birds. One of my 4 labs didn’t turn out to be a very good dog. So I know a lot is dog specific

Baylor and Brady got the mooch mutt thing down with khanarella and the daughter when they go to starbucks with them in the daughters car.
The get their free pooch cup of whipped cream

Since I been doing starbucks runs for the ole lady since her surgery.
I have seen numerous people with their dogs in their vehicles doing the same.
Dogs sitting upright facing the drive thru window waiting on their pooch cup.

😄😄😄😄😄


Gotta go hit the place now for khanarella,s coffee before I head out to a gunshow.

CB1 duties are calling ( coffee bytch 1) 😄😄😄😄🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

My dog Cookie used to be the same in the truck on a McDonald's run.
Drive thru window free doggie bisquits.

😄😄😄

Our daughter has 3 Goldendoodles. However, they were bred from toy poodles, not standards. They're the dumbest dogs that I've ever seen. The original standard poodle was a great hunting breed but the AKC ruined them, especially when they started breeding them down to toys.

I don't know anything about doodles, but we have had a standard Poodle (Ruger) for the last 10 years. Great dog lots of personality, smart, affectionate, and gentle. Ruger would have made a great hunting dog as he naturally points out birds and other game while on walks. Loud noises like thunder makes him alert and usually we have to play fetch inside the house during thunderstorms, my other two dogs Beagle and Bloodhound are looking for a place to hide. Easily the most trainable dog I've ever owned, too bad I never had much time to work with him when he was younger but he's a great companion dog.

The only issue we have with him is seizures. He started having them when he was about five years old, and we can't figure out what's triggering them. He has them on an irregular basis, and we went almost a year between the last documented one. He is peculiar in the fact that he has them while sleeping, never when he's playing with the other dogs or having other stimuli.

I have a feeling you are very short on experience with some of the breeds you say you don't like. I've been around multiples of PP or drathaars that are great family dogs. IMO/E that side of a dog is about the training...

Unless I decide to give a squirrel dog breed a try, I don't see myself having anything other than a PP or drathaar. Hank has been the best family dog we've had. His one fault, which is mine, is that he does get excited around new people/dogs. But, given a bit of time, he chills out. When it's just the family, he's very chill. I've killed multiple species of upland birds, rabbits, squirrels, ducks, and even one coyote over him. All but the coyote he brought to hand.

"I've owned nothing but labs my whole life, they aren't dumb!"

Get a real dog with a brain like a Blackmouth Cur, Mountain Cur, Catahoula, etc and you'll see your labs actually had down syndrome.

What breed is that? I love the coloring on his body.

I'll stick with my mutts...

Trigger, he’s a Deutsch Drahthaar. In a nutshell he’s the original German wirehair pointer. When the Germans decided they needed a versatile hunting dog that could point, track, retrieve, blood trail feathered and furred game they crossed the Pudelpointer, Stickelhaar, Griffon and Kurzhaar to make what they figured what was the perfect hunting dog for their style. This breed was and is,maintained through a standard of ability testing, colors, size and genetic health issues. In the 1950’s someone decided they didn’t really want to go through the process of getting their dog certified to breed and got the AKC to recognize the German Wirehair as it’s own breed, with no regard to the standards of the DD. For example, the color of my dog is Braunschimmel (brown ticked) there is also Schwartzschimmel (black ticked)and Braun (brown solid). You won’t see a white DD which there are a bunch of white GWP’s. If you want to know the history check out the VDD-GNA or any reputable breeder and it can explain in more detail.

I can'r speak to golden doodles, but my standard poodle is 75 pounds of personality, smarts and love. She is gentle with little kids, high energy , but cool as a cucumber. Smart as hell and doesn't shed.

Good stuff.
Thanks

lol

Well dang, I’ve been wondering where the stray I took in 2 years back got his looks. Haven’t seen him shed either.



25lbs, lean like a whippet under that scruffy coat. Master escape artist, climbing or digging, can’t leave him in the yard.
Gentle and good natured, tho he did do a Cujo routine convincing enough to stop a miscreant from just walking in my open front door one night. Earned his keep for life.

Interbreeding is the downfall of every great dog breed.

I would not recommend any dog with oodle or poo In it’s description

He's got Charlie Manson eyes, I wouldn't [bleep] with him.

Ribka, I’m diggin’ it!! 👍👍

Naah, INbreeding has been the downfall of every great dog breed. Used to be dogs weren’t “breeds”, they were types, bred for ability first, their form following their function. Kelpies are still that way, heelers too until recently. The original Jack Russels too into the ‘70’s at least. Patterdale terriers,mountain curs prob’ly still that way.

cool pics, noticed the shock collar. my buddy has to run one with his pudelpointer. never needed one with the 2 labs I have owned that I hunted.

I run as a back up if I see a badger, rattle snake, porcupine, wolves, stray dogs, or hunting by roads I can give the dog a heads up. I guess you dont need if your dogs hunt 15 feet from you lol. mine range out to 200 to 300 yards when cutting off running roosters or up chasing chukars or sharpies. When you're hunting pressured roosters on public land and they take off running in the tall grass and cattails 150 yards in front of you what do your dogs do? Do they just chase or will they make a wide running half circle to cut them off?


I couldn't find her for 15 minutes in tall grass when she locked on a rooster. I had to use beep function on collar to find her. I have gps collars on my dogs now






Like to see some of your super labs in action hunting pics. How long will they hold point? How are they on pressured wild birds on public lands? How are they up in steep basalt mountains chasing chukar? How about the deep woods chasing and pointing hares and blue, ruffed and spruce grouse? Did you give them any snake avoidance training? lol


I can hunt my dogs 3 days in a row ( plenty of off season running) with breaks during the day. All the labs I ve seen on upland last about 2 to3 hours and are done hunting for a few days. But that of course is due to thier genetics lol. And I like to run my dogs through fields after guys with labs hunt them as I know they'll always miss a lot of birds

Beta bitch way to talk bout a guys dogs.
But then I remembered you voted for Joe Biden.

Well it’s only obvious cowboy knows everything about gun dogs. 🙄

Ill let my dogs hunt rabbits a few times a year.

And I’m interested in seeing these great labs in action too

Some people run their mouths and dont actually do anything. We all know the types. People with real "hunting dogs" understand the amount of time, expense and dedication it takes to put out a good dog. A great one comes along maybe a few times in a lifetime. No substitute for wild bird contacts the first few years of their lives. Not returded preserve birds

Sacrilege!!! Letting your bird dog hunt rabbits 😁

yep prey drive. Something labs and labdbroodliedoos dont have Blame genetics




still waiting for the duck of death and cummins cow girl to post actual huntings pics of their super duper hunting dogs. lol

I got this Shih Tzu/Poodle mix….

Holy friggin Christ.

They broke the mold on this one.

I will have its ashes mixed with mine.

So where are your pics??

Ribka
Love your whiskery dog, will have one myself at some point.
But " Labs Don't have prey drive" ?? Dude...
Your description of your hunts : 3 days in a row with breaks? That's what I consider maintenance here on my Lab. Honestly. Water AND upland, any temperature. Ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, chukkar, quail, squirrel, rabbit, huns, hell she goes mental when we go fishing! Labs can't hunt upland more than 2 or 3 hours before breaking dow? Well.. I guess my line didn't get the memo.
Not meant as a schlong measuring contest, but I think you may have been exposed to some fat/lazy labs? Dunno
Anyway, enjoying the pics,
Dan

ETA: agree with you 101% regarding exposure to wild birds as young as possible and as consistently as possible. Nothing better for a hunting dog with a lot of energy than to focus it on what it's made for.

Actual hunting labs you say???😁

I agree

running a lab on water versus chukar up and down mountains where dogs will cover 15 miles a day in steep, really rough country is a big difference.



but we'll agree to disagree

cheers

I love seeing actual working dogs

Whatever. Last pheasant hunt we were on I rode a mountain bike in 7 miles with her running along side. Dropped camp and hunted til dark. Slept out in 13° and up before light.. hunted til dark. Miles hiked that day by ME ( not the dog)? 12. Dog ran all day. Pheasants quail and doves. Slept out again, hunt morning, run the whole way out.
But... Nice truck, dude.

I have two black labs left. Best breeding east of the Mississippi this year.

Pick a boy or girl.

Only two left.

Guys, simmer down. Different breeds for different hunters.

Think of a scale that goes from Chessie to English Pointer.

The Chessie is unmatched in swimming and retrieving. They can flush the heck out of upland birds too.

The English pointer is unrivaled in the upland fields, most will swim and retrieve as well.

There are a pile of breeds that cover a bunch of territory between. Individual dogs are indeed extraordinary.

Let us all just agree that mutts are mutts, regardless of bogus papers.

Lol

Backroads,
With you 100%.
But "Labs have no prey drive" is simply stupid. Are there couch Labs that haven't been bred for prey drive and haven't been hunted? Oh for certain. Are there posters in this thread from members who haven't hunted Western landscape? I bet anything on it. A guy steps out of his truck and shoots a rabbit for his dog? BFD.
The amount of closed-mindedness re dog breeds from fellow hunters is disappointing.

Everyone has their own experience in the field with dogs.

Most generalize.

I run shorthairs, never met a lab that could run with them. Doesn’t mean that lab doesn’t exist, just never seen one come close, nor do I hope to ever hunt over a 300yd flusher.

That said, wire hairs cover the most territory between Chessies and English pointers, in my experience.

Backroads,

The Kurzhaar and Drahthaar are of particular interest to me and I entered this conversation stating, I believe, my appreciation of two whiskery breeds in this thread. Perhaps that was too subtle for some..

I have an affinity for capable hunting dogs ( *not breed specific*) much more than I do for the majority of humanity.

Apparently what I have been able to produce after 20 years of working on this particular line of Labs is a dog which German breed owners find incredulous.
I'm ok with that.

Yeah, the wirehair guys are kinda funny, those dogs are expensive!

I'm guessing the dogs are totally worth it!

So to sum it up for me: I have been through what I feel the gamut of dogs over the last 35 or so years. I’ve had setters, labs, shorthairs, and one springer. I’ve hunted behind a GWP, jagdterriers, Boykin, Münsterlander mountain cur, walker, blue tick and Black and Tan hounds. I’ve seen an Airedale run with the hounds. But now I’ve found my niche with the Drahthaar. I like most all gun dogs (except maybe a Brittany, but that’s me, they’re very capable dogs, just not my favorite). As I said earlier in the thread, not once have I thought “wish I had my lab”. They all have their strengths and weaknesses and it comes down to preference. I have had a hunting dog since I was nine years old and always will. I wish everyone luck in their dog life no matter the breed. There’s only two things to do when you lose one. Either get a pup or quit them all together. I don’t think I can quit them. And I for one will be happy when my pack meets me at the other end of the rainbow bridge.

Amen to that!

Have a female golden doodle. 75% poodle. Solid black, 65#.
Not the smartest dog I've owned, nor the most personable but a good dog as dogs go.
Currently working out a pecking order with the 7 month old , 55# male boxer.

Pointers will excel overs a wired hair hunting out on the praires. That just they way they are bred. Personally for me I take my dogs fishing out on boat, hiking off leash and sometimes to dog parks to socialize when young. Hunt water fowl in sub freezing temps, hunt a lot of late season when the snow can be deep. Be tough to do that with a pointer.

Owned 3 GSP's din my life . All great dogs and more and a bit more high strung than my wired hairs. I have a one year old wired hair now that is driving me crazy because it is hard to tire him out. But that is typical . He's 75 lbs my female is 50 lbs




Id agree. I just have a personal preference for griffs . I never said labs dont have a prey drive. Problem is labs have been way over bred and very difficult to find a good lab with prey drive and good genetics and no health issues.

You're new here, so you don't know that he's consistently wrong about 99% of what he posts... This thread is no exception.

still waiting for his super dog hunting pics.....

Waiting for Alamosa to show up and show you guys what a cow dog can do on birds in the field, which makes the point its more about the individual dog than just the breed.

Don't see any cattle dogs out in E Montana, Idaho, E Oregon , Nevada and North Dakota upland hunting. Wonder why that is? Are they a flushing or pointing breed?

He is at lowes looking for improved Garden Hose hangers.
Had a inspiration for a new scope testing rig at the playground......

My post was more tongue in cheek than claiming heelers make better upland hunting dogs. The point is that "birdie" dogs are just that. Not debating you on the obvious merits of specificity in dog breeds (hunting or otherwise), but ultimately it comes down to individual dogs within the breed, most cases being who's kennel they came from and how they are trained/treated by their owners.

I didn't mean to come across as snotty but a herding dog that will sometimes retrieve a dead bird does not equate to being a good upland or waterfowl dog. Agree that dog's individual talents differ. There are always anomalies but as has been stated you can't beat good breeding and genetics.As as you mentioned early training and treating your hunting dog correctly is important too. I think that wire hairs are some of the few remaining breeds left have breeders that are very protective of good breeding and maintaining standards or at least I hope so. The same with puddle pointers which I think are a great bird dog breed too


cheers

My hunting buddy’s lab was a beast on planted birds. No pen raised pheasant was safe.

Turn him out at the release site and you’d have a limit in maybe 10 minutes. No shotgun needed! Fugker would bring them right back to ya.

Wild birds, you best be ready to run after him. 😳

Love my griff. Hate dealing with her coat. It’s a trade off.

No worries, you're a straight shooter and get to your point.
I couldn't agree more on the lack of good dogs/breeders left in the so called "hunting" and working arena. Many examples of screwed up breeds in relation to their historical physical/temperament for their intended use. My sister was gifted an Airedale almost 50 years ago that would make todays' "standard" blush with envy. Bruno was tough as nails, hard coat not like this soft fluffy hair you see now, and a hunting machine. Protective of the family when needed but trust worthy around kids and friends.

My yellow and brown labs were exactly like that. Non moving birds were finished with no need to use a shotgun shell. Wild birds… you better have your running shoes on.

There’s no doubt that all breeds of dogs can be capable of hunting. When I was a kid there was an acquaintance of my dad that had a German Shepherd that was hell on pheasants. Would flush and retrieve just like a lab. I have a friend that claims his Aussie will bird hunt with the best of them. And there’s no doubt she’s smart but my DD will hunt circles around her.

One of the main attractions to me with the DD is that you can’t just backyard breed any old pair of dogs with their junk intact. Like I said earlier there is a whole process you have to go through in order to be certified. You have the two breed tests known as the VJP and HZP. These test the dogs both natural and trained ability in tracking, pointing, retrieving, gun sensitivity, water work, use of nose, cooperation etc. They have to have their hips,shoulders and elbows x-rayed and certified similar to an OFA and CFA certification. They have to pass what’s called a “hardness” test which the dog has an encounter with a predator of at least 12 lbs is encountered (usually a coon is used). The dog doesn’t have to kill it but that’s what usually happens. They can’t back down. There are size requirements and color requirements. There’s a few more things involved but explaining it all will wear a guy out. Then when you get certified to breed, there’s a whole litany of things involved with your kennel and pups. Basically they make it very stringent to make the DD as a breed, held to a very high standard. This doesn’t mean all other dogs are useless, just that the likely hood of getting an above average hunting dog goes up exponentially. I’m sold on the system and I’ve seen it in action. This was the main reason for the break off of the GWP guys. It was too involved of a process to breed a dog that was never going to be used on rabbits or blood trail a deer.

Oh and yeah I may have only a few posts but I’ve been a lurker since the Eyeball days of the fire. 😁😁

what are the DD pups going for these days

Most are around $2,000 but some breeders are $2,500-3,000.

Yep. When I visit, I pet and love on them and they are happy for the attention. But I don't want to own one. I want a dog that is more hunter/predator than food for coyotes if it gets out on its own.

==========


Yep, broad strokes. As in an entire breed of dogs. You got me. I also hear APBT can be a bit bitey and beagles somewhat obsessive on a scent trail.

I am sure YOUR *-doodles are wonderful exceptions to my empirical observations. Send me their AP Calculus scores, maybe?

I currently live in suburbia and we are covered up in *-doodles. Can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. I walk & run and am relatively serious about it. Until there is a dog and dog-owner to pet & chat up (in THAT order). And several friends, some of whom have serious cash on hand and are not afraid to spend it, also own *-doodles. Without exception, all the *-doodles have been friendly and not-so-bright. I suspect the breeders must cull when they get an unfriendly *-doodle. Just in my range of walking & running, I have had contact with ~20 of them. Sure, not the sample size I would like were I to present a paper to my colleagues, but good enough for a rule of thumb.

And I do spend a god amount of time in the field upland hunting with my octogenarian dad. Have yet to see a *-doodle out there. Lots of spaniels & pointers and some labs, though.

Wally Conron, the guy credited with starting the *-doodle craze, had this to say about the *-doodle craze:

I am not nearly so down on hthe *-doodles and Wally, but OG Doodle Man may have a point.

Very possible if not likely that Bruno was a redline Airedale.

My first dog was a Poodle pit mix. That dog was smarter than most peoples kids and very protective. Great rabbit dog.

I wish I had a clue as to how some of my English Pointers and GSPs have run in a day. My son covered 18 miles by pedometer one day with short breaks as we drove ranch roads looking for the next covey of blue quail with her making 50 - 150 yard swings ahead of him until they got on birds, then busting it full speed through weeds, brush, mesquite after dead and hauling ass crippled runners and digging like a buzzsaw down 2 feet in varmint holes they like to dive in. I know it sounds crazy but I figure she had to be covering 100 - 150 miles in a long day with a little food about 2:00.

This was pretty tame low grass country.



This country is a lot tougher. Rough sand mougles wear one out just driving over it.

Great pics for sure. Beautiful

This. I much prefer having a shock collar to get ones attention when they get around brush cattle with calves, porcupines, javelina or when out several hundred yards and 4 or 5 coyotes decide to eat dog. It's no fun pulling 18 quills out of a dogs face or letting one tussle with a skunk or badger.

When younger I've seen her evidently smell a covey a long way off and disappear going over a ridge 700-800 yds away. Then it's a 15 minute agonizing wait while honking the truck horn. Its always dicey at night if your dog goes after a bobcat you called in and wounded and they dont get the message to come back or after a wounded coyote even in daylight.

I've had her head out 200 yards from me and cross heavily traveled oilfield roads with me hollering and wondering WTF only to have her come back with a live cripple someone else must have shot hunting the same BLM land earlier in the day.

poodapitty or a pittydoodle would be cool.

Hey, what do you know. Apparently, it's a thing.

I knew someone who had a cocker poodle cross that was pretty danged sharp. About 25 - 30 lbs.

I would have liked having one of those and taken it hunting birds and squirrels and Pecos River ducks.

Looks like my Frosty but he was crossed with a full sized poodle, bigger dog.

I got your standard poodle stud right here. He's a good boy. 1 year old and going deer hunting this fall.

The neighbor up the hill and down the road has a couple of these. St Bernard and Poodle cross. This is the peeled for summer coat but they get shaggy as bears come fall/winter.
This one is about 125 lbs and is a pretty good watchdog as is the other. Both are very kid/people friendly if they know you.
They respond well to the electric collar and perimeter fencing and dont run the Elk or deer that get inside the wire. The pair of them have harassed a bear or two that were after the chickens.
Great dogs imported from Canada they tell me.