Seems Christopher Wolf, a postdoctoral scholar in the College of Forestry at Oregon State University in Corvallis. is proposing we make 191,500 sq miles a sanctuary for Wolves. This amounts largely as federal lands in the following states California, Oregon, New Mexico, Washington, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah. Just looking to offer an opportunity to weigh in on the matter. Though to be honest I am unclear as to the options to weigh in.

OSU Forestry school was destroyed in the mid 2000s. Now they'll give a sheepskin to anyone.

Shouldn’t they be able adapt through evolution? The environment is placing stressors on them. Evolutionary processes should be kicked in and working.

And they will prosper and remain harmlessly within those bounds.

Seems a lot of preservationists have moved into what used to be conservation careers.

Post Docs are usually PhD's that can't find a real job.

Being a Utah resident

I'd much rather see elk calves.......deer & antelope fawns

Private livestock owners will agree

Wolves need to be kept very well in check

Most people I know will consider a wolf a big coyote

Really! Impossible to distinguish twixt them in low light or when hunting at night…oops…mistakes happen!

Poor wolves.

Who is protecting the elk and the deer and the livestock?

Where are these post doctorate scholars at OSU?

That's a big chunk of land, much larger than the entire state of Montana.

Wolves are adapting quite nicely to people and urban areas as they move 8nto central and southern wisconsin, much to the surprise of all the biologists and wannabes who said they could 9nly survive in near wilderness areas. Can't wait until Madison and Milwaukee are enjoying them as much as we do in the northern part of the state!

Anyone with a brain who see's the 90% drop in ungulate populations in my favorite summer spot - mountainous ID, would advocate for complete extermination.

Washington DC is already a huge wolf sanctuary. What more do they want? But I hope each greenie personally protects a wolf. Maybe the wolf can wear them as body armor.

I don't think we are killing enough wolves

I believe you meant Weasel Sanctuary…..

They have wolves in nw south dakota occaisionally but what they don't have is ranchers dumb enough to talk about it. Sss is alive as a doctrine among those who have learned from their neighbors.

The trouble is, you don't just run out and kill a wolf. They're very hard to come by. Very few are taken by hunters primarily after deer or elk. In Idaho, you can buy an unlimited number of wolf tags and the price is very low, $11 for residents, yet the wolf numbers are growing. More are taken by trappers but there are too few trappers to thin them out.

I don't have a problem with the wolf huggers creating sanctuary.

But I have a HUGE problem with them doing it on public lands with our tax dollars, and the infringement it has on lands already historically leased to ranchers, who suffer the most collateral financial damage due to these programs, as well as the wildlife and hunting issues.

If they want a sanctuary.... Fine. Buy a bunch of land, high fence it, and do as you please. But don't force that crap on our public lands.

Seeing the wolf devastation here in northern MN I can relate first hand.
With all the holy protections given wolves these days here no one animal lover is any the better off nor has seen any more or experienced any more wolf interaction than any other time.
The only tangible result of the explosion in our states wolf population is the ungulates have been devastated, livestock predation has increased tremendously, and other canines including domestic dogs are being attacked and killed in greater numbers.
Then again, with no ungulates to hunt our moose season has been long cancelled and the number of deer hunters is dropping fast. No big game to hunt, no need for big game seasons, no need for guns eh?
I think there is a long game here and I think the article/topic at hand is pushing western states in that direction as well.
Wolves are expanding just fine as is, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain….

Osky

Was it BrentD who explained how wolves improved the game herds?

These kinds of regulations always come from those who have no skin in the game.

But they do!

Their emotions...

they do....if you like raw meat.

Anyone using trailing hounds?

It's legal but it sure seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

If hunters cut back on chasing ungulates for a year or three and concentrated on wolves/mountain lions/bears/coyotes/bobcats it would be great for the herds. But of course that's not going to happen.

I smell something funny with the "Christopher Wolf" post-doctoral student story. However, if such a person exists and has made such a proposal, I have some solid info for him based on living in proximity with planted wolves for more than 20 years. It is not more land that the wolves need.

Just NO to more Wolves.

All these varmints had bounties years back for
good reasons

In the states listed by the OP, why is it a disaster waiting to happen?

This.

A lot to be said for one keeping their yapper shut.

roundoak,

I read of wolves killing packs of hounds that are chasing mountain lions, so using dogs for wolves could be a disaster.
Seen pictures of the dead mauled hounds on trapperman website.
I'm all for it if the dog hunters can do it.

Maybe a pack of wolf-hounds could work.

Idaho allows hound hunting but it's an expensive sport and not many do it. You really don't want your family pet to catch up with a wolf pack.

Looks a lot like our Govt’s social policy of promoting a “predator” and “scavenger” class, over the “producer” class.

So some years back as the wolves re appeared into Southern Oregon and Northern Calif., there were a lot of public meetings, yadda yadda "it is inevitable that there will significant be livestock loss, but the US Fish and Wildlife budget does not allow for ranchers to be compensated." At that point the raving greenies, (Oregon wild.org) who are primarily centered around Southern Oregon State Univ. in Ashland said, it's worth it, WE will pick up the tab, a fund was started, lasted about 2 years, went bankrupt. Turns out the raving greenies had a lot of trouble getting their checkbooks out of the ass pocket of their LL Bean sustainable pants. Like Blue Duck says, no skin in the game. I suspect that now, the Pacific Wolf Coalition has arm twisted the USF&W to pick up the beef and sheep bill.

Trapping/snaring is the only effective way to take them (well actually, helicopters are the best way followed by a Super Cub or Husky). Even setting up and calling them has limited results. They don't charge in like starving coyotes. Me and a bud set up a stand with an e-caller on what was a perfect night, clear, cold and moonlit with snow on the ground (AKPEN). We went through the range of howling and prey sounds without an answer. Then we started doing coyote sounds and them bastids come unglued. For about 40 minutes while exchanging insults with them, they sounded like junkyard dogs howling punctuated with barks which I've never heard heard before or since. When all this started they were about 2 miles out and we brought them into about 3/4s of a mile. They never would come in any closer.

A few years ago in the next village over, this kid smoked a schitt ton of wolves. They were following a small caribou herd and he and he was sniping them off from the edges. The caribou hung around for quite awhile giving him ample opportunities over several days to take shots at them.

Why would you consider it an expensive sport? It is clear you really don't know much about putting trailing hounds on a wolf.

If you wish to hunt wolves with dogs, you need Irish Wolfhounds,

"A" wolf wouldn't be any trouble, four hounds trail up into a pack of wolves , I think the hounds will come out on the short end of the stick.



My deceased uncle and his friends gave up on coon hunting around sw ohio.
He said, you train a dog to trail and tree coons and before you can get to the dogs they're in a battle for their life with coyotes. The dogs become leery of getting very far from them and 'stand around under your feet'.

What breed of hound are you talking about?
I know a dozen hound hunters in Idaho and Montana, who use triggs or some sort of a trigg/cur cross for lions and black bears. Most all have lost dogs to wolves while on a lion or bear track. A few have lost their entire pack at once.

I have heard of hounds baying up a wolf before but am curious as to what breed is capable of doing so consistently.

Do these look like Irish Wolfhounds?

Interesting, and very informative. Thanks for those.

In all honesty though, those don't look to be very big wolves, but maybe I am wrong. My Montana wolf was 7'4" long and I know of several others killed in MT and ID that are in that same size range, though many have been smaller, too. Those look like really big coyote size wolves.

Those hounds look to be about the same size as those commonly used in the west to lion and bear hunt, and many, many of those hound packs have been completely wiped out by wolves.

When you all set loose, do you only do so on wolf tracks that you can reasonably conclude are from a lone wolf and not from those with a pack?

Wolves are like covid, ebola, rabies, cholera, HIV, smallpox, bubonic plague, yellow fever, anthrax, etc. Just because theyre a nuisance doesn't make them any less a species deserving an equal place on this planet. Sarcasm.

Wolves have been reviled world wide for centuries but they're still with us. They don't need our help to survive.

No limit, no closed season would be a good start for wolves.

I don't own trailing hounds, but hunt with relatives that do and over the years have watched their hounds tree a mountain lion, bring to bay Black bears and coyotes and run wolves. They are not chicken schidt dogs. Based on your comments, I would suggest you hook up with some houndsmen and see for yourself how effective hounds are on wolves or go on the internet and obtain a copy of the book HOW TO HUNT WOLVES by Adolph Balls. LOL

On the wolves how many hounds are working the trail?



Great pictures you posted

Irish Wolfhounds why not a Scottish Wolfhound? The fact of the matter the ones raised now are for show purposes and not for serious hunting. There is no breed of dog that will survive a Wolfpack attack.

T Inman, your size comparison is not apples to apples. The photos I posted up are the Eastern Timber Wolf found in the Great Lakes states and Canadian southeastern provinces and tend to run smaller than the Gray Wolf of Alaska, Canadian western provinces and wolves introduced or immigrated to the lower western states.

Do you have coyotes weighing 60 - 110 lbs. in your neck of the woods? This is the smallest wolf the group I hunted with tagged, a 62# female.

You mentioned that entire packs of hounds were wiped out by wolves. Wisconsin has completed 4 wolf seasons and I recall learning of only a couple of hound casualties, and a few injuries.

Your question: "When you all set loose, do you only do so on wolf tracks that you can reasonably conclude are from a lone wolf and not from those with a pack?"
Yes, that is the main objective.

Our guide in Wyoming wouldn't let his lion dogs on a trail if it was too late. He didn't want the wolves to kill them if they were out overnight. Wolves are generally disliked because of the toll they take on game population. Killed a couple in Ontario over road kill deer bait. They are not dumb and are killing machines.

I believe you meant Weasel Sanctuary…..[/quote

One already exists. . . It's called the District of Columbia...

Thanks for the response. I figured those were smaller Great Lakes wolves and not western or Alaskan. Our coyotes average 30 or so pounds with bigger males getting to maybe 45 pounds. Those wolves in your pics looked 50-55 or so pounds which is why I guessed them to be “really big coyote sized”. Guess I was off a touch on guessing their weights.

I have heard of a very select few houndsman purposefully setting loose on western wolves. I do not know how successful they have been. Wolves and especially wolf packs there are a death sentence to lion/bear hounds out there. I have been along when 5 or so were killed by wolves and don’t believe I know of a single houndsman who hasn’t lost at least a couple hounds. I am guessing it is a wolf size thing???

Round oak cool pic your are correct a 100 to 125lb wolf is a nice one in Ontario. Coyotes top out at about 45lbs and don't look the same. Ever run across any that looked like they had domesticated dog in them? Saw a couple that were yellowish, kinda like a coy dog.

You stated your wolf was 7'4" nose to tip of tail...what was the weight?

ol mike, 3-4 on the low end, up to 10 on the high end.

We're close to that in Idaho. Most seasons are open 11 months with a few year round. You do have to buy tags ($11 for residents, about $30 for non-res) but there's no limit to the number of tags you can buy. I think they'd drop the tags but the feds decreed that the IDFG would have to manage the wolves but didn't sent any money to do it. Somebody has to pay for it.

No, I have not come across a coy dog version.

R C, does the state of Idaho compensate the owners of dogs or livestock for wolf predation?

Unsure. I skinned him on the spot and was 5-6 miles in, and it was right at dark. They’re all legs so not as heavy as one would think for how long they are, or he was at least. 100 lbs maybe?

Here is an observation that fellow hunters share with me when using trailing hounds. Wolves seem to be attracted to barking or baying hounds when pursing other game such as bears, coyotes or bobcats, but turn and run if hounds are trailing them. We have seen this happen after the hounds are put on a single wolf track and that wolf merges with other wolves. The pack will run a ways then split up leaving the hounds on the original wolf or hounds will trail a different one. My nephew and I witnessed this while posted up. He filled his tag as five wolves came loping by with a pack of hounds about 50 yards behind.

This one was 96 lbs.

98 lbs.

Nice pictures I'm going to have to take the time to learn how to post pictures. I did not realize that hounds were used for wolves. Do you run bobcats I've seen them mess with the hounds by doubling back and circling. Living on the mostly flat praire I sure enjoy the north woods. My son and I hunted up by Thunderbay. Thanks

Love it!! Congratulations on having some well trained dogs. Good hunting

Those look roughly the size as the one I am referring to.
Are those from the west or the Great Lakes?

Northern Wisconsin.

Huh….well something about them is different vs how they react to hounds out west.

Always interesting to see how things are different in different parts of the country.