... believed to be heading for Ukraine ...
Just that.

Wonder what 100 billion ‘Merican dollars looks like as ash? Hope the unnumbered accounts are in really really fire proof locations.

On a serious note:
This can’t be good

We will see soon enough.

An hour has passed, more than long enough.

It looks like each plane can carry about 90 tons of ordinance. Dumb bombs, smart bombs, cruise missiles, whatever? Times 13....that's going to leave a mark somewhere.

Heck, the TU 95 is even older than the B 52.

.
Spring "Bear" season just opened.

It’s a Russian plane.

Safe bet it crashed before reaching its destination.

Clickbait ?

those are old, slow, lumbering and have no defense. The easiest bomber in the world to just shoot down. That is IF they function long enough to get to even Ukraine.

13... so that 3 or 4 make it to target and 1 or 2 make it back.

Seems like last nite I was reading about how well the ukes have learn to use patriots guess we will see.

No, the Ukes haven't learned to use Patriots. Americans have been manning the crews.

Are they gonna run 'em out of town with new zoning laws?

Boomers can't help themselves, they are giddy for WWIII and destruction of the planet. A pathetic generation they are..

Quite a curious phenomenon, usually it's "old and bitter."

probably something to do with so many of us training and planning to meet Russia in the Fulda Gap

Purposeful lives and all that...

Nah just generational narcissism, the world shouldn't...or couldn't possibly go on without such a perfect generation

You haven't studied history, Jackson, or you'd know that it was a generation of oldsters who send my generation to Vietnam. And their elders sent them to WWII. And on and on back to the Punic Wars. But because you think history began when you were in grade school, you know none of this.

They should make themselves a "NO BOMBING ZONE"

Works for guns

Don't know about shouldn't, but it likely won't...

This has to the most astonishing bit of irony on the innaweb in a long time.

The difference is the wishful "hoping for" mutually assured destruction. They want the world to be destroyed. They can't wait...why? Who knows, but I assume a nihilistic approach to life by most and an extreme degree of narcissism.

Hell, most from that pathetic generation hope their own children/grandchildren don't succeed in life. Pathetic folks.

Any of you who support a war with russia should do the world a favor and go play in traffic. That way YOU are the only one who wont go on living and hopefully the rest of us will be left in peace

Do ya'll realize they use stand off weapons? Its not like flying B-17's over Germany. The Bears will never be in range of any Ukrainian SAMs.

This.

Don't worry. Mark Zuckerberg has an elaborate and very well stocked underground base that would put Number One at SPECTRE to shame.

This post perfectly sums up the stupidity of the generational animosity.

We dead yet?

That one might sum it up perfectly, but this one is the best example:



If you're not happy with how your own life turned out, it's always someone else's fault. Victim mentality.

Maybe

Watch this folks, Campfire chattering class is about to perform it's amazing trick of turning a Fake News post into a 15 page thread.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

And he can spend the rest of his existence in too. Who knows, maybe by the time he is 80 it might be safe to go above ground.

You’re just chapped you didn’t start it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^LOL!!

So easy to tell who the soft folks are.

I'm just making observations. Does that bother you?

That’s funny! 🤣 Carry 3 times max payload of a B52 you say!?

Boomers aren't very bright and dont understand change and still have their fever dreams passed out on their recliners with Fox News playing in the background that the US is a mighty military power bringing freedom to the world via 800 plus military bases around the world bankrupting America while we have open borders and DEI in our military. They still believe the Iraq WMDs fairytales and think still think we won bringing democracy in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Syria.....

Russia took out 3 patriot systems, plus NSAMs last week. And they are upping production of FAB 3000 glide bombs, okhotnik drones. they can drop FABs now from 60 or more KM from the target. Plus hyper sonic missiles the US can't even develop yet .In the meantime the US is spending trillions on planes that don't work and aircraft carriers. lol

Notice something state of the art, high tech, circa 1920!😁😁😁😁😁







Not fair really, their props are more advanced than the Red Barron's,
but still. Props on a plane in use by a major country in 1980?
Oh shizz, it's the 2020s.

Apparently that's not the important takeaway from this thread.

Reckless predictions are what matter here; not disappointing, boring reality.

Ha! With resolution!

Wow, you really know your stuff!

LOL.....this coming from a commie living in the Chicago hellhole. Easy to tell you're a product of the liberal indoctrination system formerly known as our education system.

What a stupid assessment. We boomers have kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren and hope nothing but the best long lives possible for each one of them. Democrats are the ones seeking the end of our constitutional republic, believe in free spending by the government, running up the national debt 1 trillion dollars every 100 days, that what the government gives away is actually free, believe 1st amendment rights only apply to those who agree with them, believe in disenfranchising voters by taking candidates off the ballot, etc.

Go back to your parent's basement and play some more video games and quit expressing your ignorance here.

If anybody really wanted WWIII and MAD, we would have had it long ago.

A boomer's boomer once advised that to see peace, one must prepare for war.

If that scares you, then you need to grow up.

You don't know what you don't yet know. Boomers do know what you don't yet know.

But hey, why learn from somebody else.

I’ve spent many hours flying on the wing of those guys while escorting them around the Carrier Battle Group. They’re faster than you would think and the Bear-D versions I escorted did have guns…top, belly, and tail IIRC. I have some good photos of their tail gunners and other crew members in the observation windows.

Their pilots in WestPac were A-holes and would try to turn into you at low altitude and drag you off on the water or a ship’s superstructure. On the other hand, the guys we encountered in the North Atlantic were pretty professional. I flew formation on one Bear off of Norway for a couple of hours in clouds from 25,000’ down to 500’ and they didn’t scare me at all. My RIO kept me posted on turns but the copilot would signal before a turn or descent/climb. It was actually pretty cool.

What was really annoying was that you could feel the props pounding the air and if the crew wanted, they could de-synchronize the props and create a “beat” that you would feel in your chest sort of like the a top fuel dragster.

Simplified your post for him

Well intentioned, but just naive.

The boomers I know are NOT giddy for WWIII. We wanted NATO to pull back and try to talk some sense before spending 100 billion on a failed war.

kwg

Love this post. Thank you. These are the gems which make it worthwhile to wade through the boomer/fu boomer/this country sucks/I want to move back to mother Russia posts.

How do you come to these moronic conclusions? Have any useful links showing that your delusions are not delusions?

Now that's funny. Your continued boomer hate shows you to be the narcissist. Tell me just how special your generation is? Not talking about your LGBTQ issues, general lack of useful skills, piss poor work ethics or your hand out gimme attitudes. Something positive.

What you're posting is not an observation, because it's based on nothing. It's just one bitter aśśhole's opinion.

My observation is that you're about the most bitter individual who posts on here. Why is that?

Data from Pravda.

Looks like your brain has been cooked to perfection by the liberal media, and the 'education' system.

Mainly just to trigger old fùcks around here. But there's obviously some truth in my posts, or boomies would not be so upset (they...you...find my boomer observations upsetting because you know they are true)

Yes, the old war will give us peace bullchit. So when does this peace come? As long as the US is a thing, the world will never have peace. We create death and destruction all over the world. Been doin it long before i wqs born

It's true. But until these idiots come to grips with the fact they've been duped by the military industrial complex, nothing will change.

Just more blood spilled and treasure lost...all for nothing. You would have thought the last 20yrs would have made it obvious

That money is likely just passing thru to somewhere else- with secure anonymous banking laws. And Ato American? politicians .

That's great, maybe there is hope after all!

I hope Russia pounds the schitt out of Ukraine. That failed nation-state has been the source of uncountable crimes by the Deep State and Democrats getting kick-backs from laundered US dollars, as well as the secret bioweapon labs.

[/quote]

Hell, most from that pathetic generation hope their own children/grandchildren don't succeed in life. Pathetic folks.[/quote]

This is my Dad when I was growing up. Always seemed happy to see us fail and upset if we accomplished something he had not. I was always like he was in competition to prove he was better than us and never gave us anything but took and took.

Seems so bizarre now that I have kids because I want the best for mine and want the world to be better for them and hope they all achieve more than I did.

I never had any one give me a compliment about something with my dad present where he didn't interrupt with something like saying well thats nothing you should see what I did. Biggest mistake I made was spending some years underpaid working for him trying to win his approval. He told someone once at least while he's working for me he won't be able to out do me. So bizarre to think of now that I'm a dad.

He has gotten better in his old age and realizes that his days are numbered and seems at least happy that I'm doing OK. No, his actions in the past were not a calculated attempt to make us stronger for his own good. It was just he couldn't handle any of us doing better than him.

He was even really upset when I bought my first rifle with my own money because I had a BDL and he only had an ADL. He told me I had to trade him or he was taking away my allowance. He did take away my allowance. Said I didn't need it because I just saved my money anyways. Didn't think I should have savings when he didn't. I worked tough jobs for 4 years to save for that bdl and I still have it.

I don't understand my dad's generation. Though most aren't like him many seemed very self absorbed and willing to see their kids go without. That's what created gen x who seem to be the ones who got things done. It was for our betterment but they didn't mean it to be. Then we ruined our kids helocoptering and giving them too much trying to compensate for how our parents left us to fend for ourselves while they partied with their friends.

I think generations cycle. Those from the ww2 and depression time tried to give their kids all they didn't have too and created the 60s who ignored and emotionally abandoned gen X who then gave too much to millennial and gen z while trying not to be like their parents. These are broad generalizations and their are still some parents in each generation that managed to get the balance pretty well right.

Bb

The problem with this is its the average ukraining citizen and Russian trooper who will suffer while all the dirt bags who created this mess are out yachting on their private ship thousands of miles away. That's the problem when citizens fail to rise up against their own dirt bag leaders. It always comes back on the average guy.

Makes me wondering what's in store for us for allowing Biden to steal the office and do all these corrupt deals. You know we'll pay a heavy price for his open borders alone. Makes a guy think if we don't take a little gross cough medicine now it'll be chemo for everyone soon.

Bb

Pretty spot on!

Couldn't agree more with BurleyBoy

At the risk of sounding weird, I never skip your posts!

The time for gross cough medicine was 60 years ago.

It's way beyond that, WWIII has started, most of us don't realize it just because we haven't seen a second sunrise yet. Pres. Putin will not let this terror attack go unanswered. He's not insane like our FedGov overlords.

AYE !!!!!

Prior to WWII, the US tried the isolationist strategy. Small military, limited interventions. Didn't work so well. Humans have been fighting and killing each other since the beginning of time. It's just in us. We're tribal like that. And humans certainly have no monopoly on competition/killing for resources.

You want to be the weakest kid on the block and see what happens? I don't.

Russian Cruise Missile passed thru Polish Air Space on its way to Ukielund ..

I smell Smoke ..

I’m putting off grocery shopping til we know for sure.

I don't know where the rumor of isolationism got started, but the us has been meddling around the world since the Spanish American war.

Prior to World war, the sequel, isolationism was a conservative principle. During World war 2, leftist politicians realized they could make bank on endless war. Since then, conservative politicians have slowly become an extinct species such that now almost all politicians are leftists. Unfortunately, their propaganda has been effective enough to convince even run-of-the-mill conservatives to clamor for endless intervention, for fear of another world war.

(Never mind that we're on the verge of that world war, and we haven't been "isolationist" for 8 decades.)

We've had peace with Japan and Western Germany since 1945.

Your policies got us into the war. A brutal application of overwhelming force that didn't stop until we achieved unconditional surrender is a good part of the reason the peace has held.

It's not hard to decern who here prayed the Bully on the playground would take their lunch money last.

The Enemy always get a vote.

Well at least the world was peaceful and without conquest before the USA came along................give or take.

You want to be a pu$$y-azzed country and get ran over by everyone else? I don't. The only reason some of the lame-assed countries can exist, is because they are allies with the US.

I have no desire to get over run. But that could be accomplished with a strong military, that stayed at home and protected opine own borders, rather than being deployed around the world and often being used to cause more problems than it solved.

As to your sarcastic comment concerning world peace before the US, I couldn't care less if every other country fought itself to death. The US was at peace until we adopted the role of world police.

As far as being over run like a pu$sy a$s country, have you seen the recent news from Texas?

The US is a maritime nation.

If you don't grasp what that means, I'm not going to explain it to you.

What's happeing at the southern border is a perfect example of being weak. Thank your President for that.

When did we become a maritime nation? Before or after Cuba? Why weren't we involved in constant overseas conflict prior to that?

On the first day.

We've always been involved in foreign interventions. Prior to WWII it was far more limited.

"....From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli....."

That’s just silly.

Britain had a very strong military, on an island, including a world class Navy, and without massive help from the US it would be speaking German right now.

Had they stood up and punched Hitler in the nose after Sudetenland, the Germans would have had three less years of militarization and political consolidation.

Kinda like appeasing Putin when he annexed Crimea.

The US has a geographic advantage through distance, but Putin reconstituting the USSR under a despot would be at our southern border in under a generation.

*discern

Why are you talking about lunch money? Hungry?

Probably 1801-1815 when the Barbary Pirates were dealt with.

Right now, at this moment in time it's like the 1930's all over again.
We even have the Isolationist Faction reconstituted.
Hope it doesn't end the same way.

The reason you could care less is because you enjoy the fruits from the labor of those that did care. It's easy to sit on your couch here in the USA because the USA has done the work to establish wide spread trade and peace. You're just to dumb and lazy to understand how the world works and watch your imported TV while typing on your imported computer safe from an invading horde of Orcs.

By establishing the way to trade with the Reserve Dollar the USA taxes the world in exchange for making world wide trade feasible.

Those who whine and whimper and want the USA to be isolationist will be whining and whimpering at a much higher pitch if they ever got their wish.

As other have said the southern border is just one example of showing weakness for which you advocate.

Um yeah. I can't wait for Putey to deploy some Jewish Space Lasers, or smoke them uppity 'Kranies with some Chemtrails.

So, we protected American shipping in the first 2 decades of the 1800s, the had no foreign adventures until 1898. Since then, we've been involved everywhere. And it was always leftists that got us involved. Conservatives wanted to mind our own business.

As to great Britain speaking German, again, couldn't care less. The case could be made that the terms at the end of ww1 led to the economic situation that resulted in the nazi party coming to power. If the allies had been more interested in trade than they were in vengeance, ww2 might have never happened.

If we judge the current world situation applying the logic of interventionist, the world should be at perfect peace under the leadership of the US. But that's not the case. There is still as much conflict. The only difference is that the US govt has spent the treasure and manpower of the country to enrich the political class.

Now, let's imagine that Russia is he'll bent on global dominion. Ask yourselves, are we better prepared after wasting hundreds of billions in Ukraine and expending all the munitions there that we have? Are we better off having worried more about Ukraine than our own southern border?

I would have to say that I think interventionism has been a failure.

(And to everyone who analogizes about bullies. Bullies pick on pussies. Sorry, but someone had to explain it to you.)

Or just fluoridate their municipal water.

LOL

Holy [bleep], you're stupid. In the very post you quoted, I talked about protecting our southern border, instead of waiting time in Ukraine.

The fatfuk wizard flappin his jowls again

It's quite likely that 'thinking' isn't your strong suit.

There will always be two sides to things. Choose wisely.

You are so charmingly naive.

Had Britain fallen, Russia would have fallen. Soon thereafter, Japan and Germany would have divided up the rest of the world, Asia, Africa. More Lebensraum in South America, which would have left North America the lone democracy standing.

Would you care, then?

Your appeal to weakness invites situations like the invasion on the southern border. Strong USA policy stops that kind of problem.

Trump stopped the flood through strong policy, intervention works. Fact.

Spot on. Problem with the democrats and the younger generation is they think if you say nice things to an enemy, give them money, and talk nice about them they will reciprocate.

Yes Dan, you are correct. With just a quick look on the web, I failed to realize how much of the gross tonnage was fuel.
Thanks for the correction.

further searching:

B-1 b...Payload 75,000 lbs internal (34,019 kg), 50,000 lbs external.

B-52 ....
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 488,000 pounds (219,600 kilograms)
Fuel Capacity: 312,197 pounds (141,610 kilograms)
Payload: 70,000 pounds (31,500 kilograms)


TU-95.. This is what I was looking at yesterday

Empty weight: 90,000 kg (198,416 lb)
Gross weight: 171,000 kg (376,990 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 188,000 kg (414,469 lb)

Found today:Armament - Primary Bomb tonnage up to 12,000kg (26,400 lb)

I do find myself quite amused by the reactions of many to this OP.
Russia launches a flight of TU 95 bombers so the world is ending in a nuclear holocaust.

Does Russia go to DefCon ONE every time we put a B-2 or a B-52 into the air? They are "nuke capable".

Brother NyQuil,
I got a 30-30.gimme coordinates

Like it or not, we are still the Indespensable Nation, and our withdrawal from the world stage would bode ill for the future and not improve the lot of those without the wattage to thrive in the 21st Century.

Plus, we are winning economically.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/31/us-economy-2024-gdp-g7-nations

Very unlikely that GB would have fallen.

I’m a POL

Stat Now

(Crickets)

Hitler didn't even want war with Great Britain. He was desperate for a peace deal with them which involved nothing more than ceasing hostilities between them, but Churchill would have none of it. Churchill could have easily saved Britain by merely ceasing hostilities against Germany. Instead, he aligned with Jewish influence to bring the US into it against Germany.

Read Churchill's War by David Irving.

Could you walk me through how sending billions to Ukraine has improved the situation at our southern border?

Has NAFTA / USMCA? Has any other move the US has made to support global trade? Have any of them hurt or improved China's position with regard to global power?

What policy is mine? Not starting endless wars and stop causing chaos around the world? I like that one. You should too.

Maybe even helped Hitler out by rounding up some British Jews, eh TRH?

Appeasing Evil is always the plan for the weak.

Standing up to Evil sure is not for everyone.

Minding one's own business is not appeasement.

Spot on. Why theee clowns cant see this is beyond me

Nobody says "war will give us peace."

Being prepared for war encourages peace, because there are repercussions to adventurism.

Nothing is perfect. As Plato D. Boomer observed long ago, "only the dead have seen the end of war."

Also, as Adolph Boomer said to the appeaser Neville Chamberlain, "thanks sucker. Just the tip."

You forget Putin is a boomer.

You don't know what you don't know, either. But they do.

Can any of you sit here and tell me that the war on terror was good and successful? What about vietnam? Why are we going to war with russia now? Lets see how much some of you war mongering cocks know. So many like to spout off at the mouth, but your fat old asses would be sitting on the sofa while our kids fo off to die for abdolutely nothing. F uck off with that nonsense and f uck what this country has become

Oh wow

We have zero reason to have russia as an enemy. Funny how so many of you claim to be right conservatives, but you are on the side of the deep state, rinos and dems. I enjot being on the oppossing side of those pukes

Im all for being prepared. Im all for an extremely strong military. Not the joke we currently have.

This. If we had not mobilized for war in 1941, everyone East of the Rockies would be speaking German and saluting statues of Adolf, while those of us in the west would be speaking Japanese and worshiping the god-emperor of Japan.

Those few of us allowed to live anyway.

Without US intervention, Hitler would have soon turned the full man power and manufacturing capability of Russia against England and America. Germany already had strong foot holds in Mexico and South America.

Without Us intervention, Japan would have done the same with Chinese resources. Australia would have succumbed quickly. Japan was already building bases in Alaska and would have leap frogged those bases on to Canada and US.

That is not to say that US military excursions done since 1950 are fully justified. But we see today the effects Socialism is having on our nation, despite doing everything we could to battle that trend across the globe.

China has been drooling over our Alaskan oil reserves for decades. The only thing protecting our resources is our military capabilities.

Read The Myth of German Villainy, by retired US Naval Officer Benton Bradberry.

You aren't a boomer, but you're an expert on all things pertaining to people born between 1946 and 1964, is that right?

Every boomer who I know, including me, wants his/her kids to succeed in life. Good/competent parents want their kids to succeed so that they become contributing members of society. Good/competent parents hope that their kids will have happy and successful lives and do what they can to point them in the right direction.

+1

Quite litterally appeasement when dealing with EVIL.

Your type would let goons on the street rob little old ladies while shuffling along mumbling "none of my business".

All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

Why did Eisenhower demand that conditions in German concentration camps be well documented, filmed, and photographed?

Because he knew the world would never believe civilized humans capable of such atrocities without full documentation.

I had an Uncle who was behind Patton as they liberated some of those camps. His stories could curdle my blood forty years later.

Get over it! It happened!

The enemy gets a vote too.


Being a contrarian requires no original thought. It may be fun, but it accomplishes nothing.

90 tons, LOL!
Try 12 tons.

Yes you dumb f ucking pile of fat chit. I wouldnt help an old women in need because im against sending my child off to die for absolutely no reason other than thats what the deep state wants and the retarded boomers who have no clue and still think its the 60s and russia is commie lmao

But...but....Diversity is Our Greatest Strength!!! Waving rainbow flags on duty and promoting f ags/unqualified women/etc. makes our .mil Super-duper stronger!!!

Are you not an isolationist?

I was thinking that 90 tons couldn’t be right. That would be an insane number.

Revisionist History!

If Hitler did not want war with England, he should have kept his ass out of nations with which England held mutual defense treaties.

That is the dumbest schit ever posted on this board. Hitler couldn’t even muster enough force or will to invade England BEFOREwe got into the war, but you think he was going to take three quarters of the USA.

Self awareness….it’s a thing.

So, our strong overseas adventures are gonna protect us from being over run? That's was the position you stated earlier, right? I don't want to misconstrue what you said.

But I think I'll stick with my thoughts on the matter, since virtually every thing you've stated should be a benefit of interventionism is not happening in the world today.

Hitler knew that the UK had pledged to go to war with Germany if they invaded Poland. Maybe he thought that they were bluffing and that PM Chamberlain would back down like he did with the Munich Agreement after Germany annexed the Sudetenland portion of Czechoslovakia. If Hitler hadn't wanted to go to war with the UK, he wouldn't have invaded Poland. By appeasing Hitler, the UK and French emboldened Hitler to keep breaking the terms of the Versailles Treaty and annexing neighboring countries.

This post is a prime example of irrational thought process.

First, if the poster does not want his child fighting then he can forbid his child from entering Millitary service. Pretty easy fix.

Next we all know this is a thread about Ukraine and the Orcs and the discussion is about providing aid to Ukraine, not sending the posters child to die. But because of his irrational thinking he has created a straw man to argue a different point because he know he has lost this point.

The Orcs are threating the USA with Nukes so whether we call them Commies or Orcs has no bearing on the EVIL threat. Some here want to roll over and show their belly to the Orc in the hopes of appeasement.

Others with a bit of world knowledge and understanding of history know that won't bring peace. Strength brings peace.

Had either one of them tried to invade the Americas, we should have been involved. And if they had invaded, they would have had to figure out how to get an army across the ocean without being annihilated.

But again, please explain how our overseas involvement has prevented what many of you seem to far the most: the invasion of our homeland?

For sure

Good Lord! learn to read. Did you miss the part where I talked about having a strong military? That stayed home and protected our own borders? It was right there in my post?

Russia will be a virtual dictatorship as long as president for life Putin is alive, but if that is what the Russian people want, that is what they should have.

Are you speaking from first hand experience here?

There seems to be a crew of them that are so worried about not being involved in every one else's problems, that they overlook the fact that their very fears are currently coming true.

I understand there are times that we would need to be involved in things around the world, so no, im not an isolationist in the long game. For the current time, we need to be more on the isolationist side of things. Our country is broken. Almost completely lost. We have so many issues here that deserves our full attention and if we dont give it, we are done. I am 100% against war with russia in any way. I dont give a chit about israel or palestine. They can sort their own chit out. China is going to be a huge problem at some point, but refer to my original point that if we dont fix our current issues here , it wont matter because we wont have a country.

Certainly using hind sight, instead of acting like we wanted stop Putin’s invasion.

We allowed the war machine to make political gains and profit for the elite.

With the billions spent already………why they need bullets?

It’s the first thing I saw Z Dawg request.

“ I don’t need safe passage……I need bullets.”

I feel our country has a pathetic political situation and am ashamed.

15 hours have now passed since the OP's post.

When should I start looking for the Bears over Bracken County, KY?

Exactly. Every reason these guys give for us being involved in everyones business is happening or has happened to us. We have caused death every day around the world and our country is just about done. So glad we wasted all of those american lives

SERIOUSLY?

The world would have been fascist within a generation. The Americas are isolated, and the Fascist sympathizers go to work on the banana republics in South and Central America. Ten years, MAX, and one or more of them would have gone Fascist, and invited the “liberators” in. Perhaps you forgot about the strong level of Fascist sympathy among the Spanish?

That leaves North America with its belly exposed, unable to trade, and literally the economic might of the entire world, run by Germans and Japanese set agains it in armed conflict.

Then, THEN, would you act?

Why don't you think about this for a bit.

Why was England able to resist Hitler's bombing campaigns for so long. And only a fool would believe that bombing was not a prelude to invasion. The Germans claimed it was a prelude to invasion. They expected a "Blitzkrieg" of Britain just as they had France, Poland, and all the rest of Europe.

England survived the beginning years of WW II solely due to American support, even though we were not fighting. We kept England alive by supplying her with everything form food to planes to tanks.

The same is true of Russia. Russia could not have held off the Germans without our Lend-Lease act. Russia was fond of proclaiming that Germany was defeated with Russian blood and American dollars.

And yes, America would have been safe, probably until about 1947, which is about how long it would have taken the
Axis powers to settle their control over the rest of the world. Then they could have turned the complete military might of Europe and Asia toward N America. What would Canada have done after Britain and the rest of the UK surrendered to Hitler?

Japan would have still had all her Battleships, Aircraft Carriers, planes, and seasoned pilots. The Manhattan Project would have not existed.. Germany would have had nukes and, as they were sharing technology with Japan, most likely Japan would have had nukes by 1947 as well.

The Trump administration stopped the southern border invasion through intervention in other countries. Biden reversed those policies.

How anyone does not know this very recent history boggles the mind but then again the 24hr Campfire has a few real slow folks who love to post their ignorance.

Hitler shot his wad in Russia

I think putty boy a prancing on his pony half necked got the bot boys hot and wanting to puff!

If we didn’t have the Hispanic immigration the USA would be a Muslim nation very quickly.

Pot meet kettle

Oh, so our 20 year war in which we did not win in the middle east stopped us from becoming muslim? F ucks sake

We are past peak woke. America is already fixing itself.

China has more problems then you can imagine. They screwed themselves with "one child" and their property market bubble. Best case they're looking at 3 decades of stagnation, and the most likely scenario's are not that pretty.

I'm also against war and violence in general, but in detail understand it's not a matter of if, but where and how. What I'm most against is war inside, on or near America's borders. The most destructive war is the one fought inside your own borders, so we keep the wars as far from our borders as possible and outsource the bleeding when we can. Part of keeping the violence far from our shores is having allies and bases so we have global reach for our weapons and intelligence, and logistics. Let me remind you, only our carriers and submarines are nuclear powered, and even their crews have to eat.

Yes, we have our problems, but in the grand scheme, they're not as bad as you think, and it's good to hear you're not a true isolationist.

I am referencing population dynamics in the USA.

The Hispanic population is expanding fast enough to keep the Muslim population from outpacing the Christian population sooner than what it is predicted.

Either way……looking foreword to a nice bowl of goat!

Japan bombing hell out of our holdings in the Philippines, and Hawaii don't count?

How about an actual Japanese base in Alaska?

How do people forget? We took no active part in that war until we were attacked. Maybe we should have just surrendered to Japan on Dec 8, 1941?

In order to project meaningful power onto the Japanese mainland we had to construct a chain of island bases across the pacific.

Contrast that with German where we had an ally on their border until France fell, then we had one only 21 miles across the English Channel. Sure we had to defeat the U-boat menace, but we already had a launch point for Normandy.

To the warmongers who want eternal war, with anybody:

With the Proclamation of Neutrality, President Washington established a U.S. foreign policy of neutrality. In his famous 1796 Farewell Address, drafted in collaboration with Hamilton, he reaffirmed his proclamation and admonished his fellow citizens to keep neutrality a cornerstone of American diplomacy. “Our true policy,” Washington’s Farewell declared, is “to steer clear of permanent Alliances with any portion of the foreign world.” The United States continued to do just that until the mid-twentieth century.

The world is not exactly the same as it was in 1797.

Things have changed a bit and for some here it's really scary.

I stand with Pres. George Washington and the Founding Fathers and against warmongers like you. Your bloodlust is reprehensible and unAmerican.

My point exactly.

Japan started bombing US bases on Dec 7, 1941. Six months later, June 6,1942 they attacked the Aleutian Islands. They built a base on Kiska which was the first stepping stone across the Pacific in preparation for invasion of N America.

We responded by building a base on Adak in Aug 1942, from which we attacked Kiska. The US Navy formed a blockade of Kiska and we bombed hell out of the island for almost a year before the Japanese abandoned the island.

Conversely, if England had fallen Germans could of hoped to Iceland then Greenland for their launch point into North America.

Should we have ever taken up arms against any of the Native Americans? Should we have helped the Texans against Santa Anna?
Or pushed the Mexicans out of California, New Mexico, etc?

Would you limit the US to the original 13 states?

The conditions were awful, with dead victims of typhus piled high, and many of the survivors suffering from it, requiring treatment. This scored tremendous propaganda points in favor of what they had intended to do to Germany after the war, so they played it up, instead of categorizing it for what it was, i.e., one in a long string of tragedies associated with the war.

The world was much smaller in 1945 that it was in 1780. And it is a heck of a lot smaller today than it was in '45.

Hell, even Iran or N Korea could reach us with weapons today. Appeasement won't prevent that. Sometime you have to go kill people and break things.

That said, I hope Putin dropped everything those thirteen planes could carry right on Zelensky's head. Along with any American over there helping to suck the American Treasury dry and lining their own pockets.

BULLSCHITT! NAZI APOLOGIST!

Poland, encouraged by the Western powers, perpetrated outrage after outrage (to include mass murder) against former German provinces (ethnically German), designed specifically to provoke Germany to invade. Sound familiar??

Your ilk gave Mugabe and the commies all of Africa.

Ian Smith and George Washington had nothing but scorn for those who appease evil.

The stupidity is impressive, though.

You were anticipated. And it’s taken less than a century.

The Soviet Union was our mutual enemy, the enemy of all the West. We should have been helping Germany to defeat them.

Poland and Czech Republic ethnically cleansed as many Germans as the Nazis killed in those 2 countries.

I would be more concerned about what those aircraft could drop in the water with future affect.

Spoken like a true leftist. They say the exact same thing when they want to mold the constitution to their likings

TRH what drives this Jew hatred and twisted version of history you continually display.
Was your dad a guard at one of the camps?

Were you actually curious about the truth, you'd already know that it is the proponents of your position who are full of it. The information is readily available, from sources you'd never challenge, but they are not handed to you on a silver platter the way the official history of the war is. You have to actually wish to know the truth of the matter.

Please tell the class where USA foreign policy is codified in the US Constitution.

Can't see it because Texas National Guard wasn't serving ice cream at the border.

What are you doing, Capt America? When was the last time you dealt with a "goon"?

Yes, those shrunken heads, human skin lampshades, and human fat bars of soap, that Eisenhower forced everyone to peruse, were just awful, or would have been had they not been fabricated for the purpose of anti-German propaganda, which fact literally no one with any legitimate history credentials any longer denies.

As has been pointed out multiple times Trump stopped the invasion with interventionist foreign policy.

Biden reversed those interventionist policies.

If you girls don't know US history from 4 years ago how do we get you up to speed on how the world works?

Perhaps a little Common Sense?


The cause of America is, in a great measure, the cause of all mankind. Many circumstances have, and will arise, which are not local, but universal, and through which the principles of all lovers of mankind are affected, and in the event of which, their affections are interested. The laying a country desolate with fire and sword, declaring war against the natural rights of all mankind, and extirpating the defenders thereof from the face of the earth, is the concern of every man to whom nature hath given the power of feeling; of which class, regardless of party censure is."

Over what time period Dirt? How far back are you going?

The fat drunkard is possibly the dumbest person on this forum.

To be perfectly fair. Hitler was no worse than many others. Hitler and Stalin were about equally guilty of committing atrocities against their countrymen. Mao Zedong killed 45,000,000 of his own. Pol Pot is up there, though he had a smaller population base to work from. Milosevic was just a weak pretender. I won't even try to get into the scittstorm that is Africa.

There was Genghis Khan, Alexander, etc.

That is what humans do. The strong kill the weak and take away their resources. It has been that way since the first cave man clubbed his neighbor for a hunk of venison and a chance at his mate.

That is why we must not allow the Us to become weaker than China, and why we should be allied strongly with Russia.

How does promoting abortion, sodomy, and the Federal Reserve fit in with "the cause of all mankind"?

Correct.

And you claim there were no gas chambers or ovens. Zyklon B was just a delousing agent......right?

The sad thing is, you believe this schitt. The sadder thing is that more believe it every generation.

History has a strong tendency to repeat itself. I wonder who will be herded into the gas chambers next time?

So, what about those bombers???

Nice.

You have a way with words and would have made a fine founding father with your "Common Sense".

Lol!

Bb, you are right on. We have not yet begun to see the hell we have yet to pay for the open border policy that lying swine squatter traitor in the White House created.

A President of the United States selling his country out to china. Who would have ever thought?

No Chit. WTF

Threw some missiles at population centers in Ukraine.

Most were intercepted.

Just another day in the Orc invasion.

That is the preamble to the pamplet by Thomas Paine of that title. Sorry I don't manage italics on my phone to denote a title.

Originally, after the war, it was claimed that all the camps featured homicidal gas chambers. Very quickly, however, they were forced by reports from inspectors to drop the claims with regard to every single camp that wasn't at that time located in Soviet territory (What a coincidence, right?).

The camps in Soviet territory were not accessible to investigation by Western inspectors, so Soviet anti-German propaganda about them was permitted to persist unchallenged throughout the Cold War period, resulting in said claims eventually being incorporated into the official history of WWII.

As for Zyclon B, it isn't possible to reasonably deny that it was a pesticide for delousing clothing. That was its purpose for manufacture. It's not a fact that's denied by anyone who has so much as scratched the surface in investigating it. Was it seriously your belief that it was manufactured for gas chambers??

That's why I put quotes on "Common Sense" in my reply.

As you saw a few here were going on about the founding fathers and how they would have just minded their own buisness in the face of evil. Your posting of that from Paines "Common Sense" points out, starkly, how wrong their unnderstanding of what the Founding Fathers believed.

Johnny NyQuil and I love Joe Biden. Yeehaw.

You’re right. Never in the history of mankind has something been manufactured, and then used for a purpose other than that for which it was originally intended.

Good point, Hawkeye.

I just went outside and checked. There are no TU-95s in the airspace inside the Greater Browningsville Metroplex. I went back and calculated. If they'd been wanting to hit Falmouth or Brooksville, they should have been overhead about 6 hours ago.

Guys, I'm calling this a big non-issue.

I really wish some of y'all would find a doctor that would get you on a good mood-lightener.

It is a shame the SS and NAzis did not allow the queers, Gypsies, Jews, Slavs, retards, and other undesirables to remove their clothing before delousing. :GRIN:

Just Kidding! It is a commonly known fact that the victims entered the showers naked.

Good job, dudes. Think and react.

Right here on page 3. The big money people and the swamp dwellers don't care as long as the dollars or shekels or rubles continue to poor in. Why is it the common citizen has to pay the ultimate price for the powerful's poor decisions ? Joe Biden and the swamp sold us and the boys and the citizens of Ukraine out years ago for their 13 pieces of silver.

kwg

That wasn't the point. He claimed that it was not a pesticide for delousing clothing. The non-existence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers doesn't depend on the purpose for which Zyklon B was manufactured.

I heard a turkey gobble a bit ago and med flight flew ovr about 30 mins after quiet here

Zyklon B is still used as a pesticide today.

Amazingly, it's marketed under a different name.

Russia should nuke Ukraine, its not NATO

I will bet they thought it over a number of times.

kwg

The showers were for showering, so naked would be the right way to enter them. Delousing of clothing was done in completely different facilities (with high tech, sealed, doors marked with skulls and crossbones and danger warnings). There were no fake shower rooms. They all had functioning shower heads, with running hot and cold water, absent any mechanism for introducing any sort of gas. Many inmates included in their memoirs how they appreciated the opportunity to shower on a daily basis in them, and how they'd get up early in order to avoid the crowds that gathered there for showers.

Nor does the fact that it wasn’t originally manufactured for use in the gas chambers negate the fact that it was; or that those chambers existed.

Try harder.

My friend Hal Roberts, who now rests in Arlington, was a combat photographer attached to Eisenhower at the end of the war. He showed me pictures he took that convinced me along with his and many others' stories from the time that evil knew no bounds.

One needs to look no further than the Clintons, Obamas, Bidens, and most of Congress to see it still exists today.

The Ukraine region was and remains the Nazi's most prolific recruting ground outside of Germany and Mordor on the Potomic by my estimation.

Nor did I claim anything of the sort. Try to keep up.

No, I was laughing any who would believe that a delousing agent was the primary use of this poison. Yes it was invented as a pesticide. But its primary use soon became the eradication of human pests. Obviously as deffined by the insane maniac holding the reigns of power over the German Empire.

That narrative doesn't withstand even the slightest scrutiny, as already explained.

Unfortunately for the Nazi apologists. The Nazis were nothing if not meticulous record keepers. Much of the evidence for the Holocaust comes straight from the Nazis' own record books.

Ok.

Quite the opposite is the case. Due to the utter nonexistence of said documentary evidence, the proponents of the hoax assert that orders were given and passed along like a game of telephone.

AK, your confusion is too complex for me to unravel.

How were the dead bodies removed from the Zyklon B showers?? What steps were taken to keep the body movers from being killed by merely touching the corpses with their bare hands?? How was the Zyklon B gas removed from the showers?? Was the air "scrubbed" of Zyklon B?? What about everybody downwind, including all the German guards around the perimeter of the camps??

Right????
The Nazi's own records contributed heavily to the convictions at Nuremberg. Or would you claim those were all faked and forged?

You've just awarded yourself the dunce hat for telling everybody what they already know. Put the cough syrup down.

That’s one way out.

I will not claim to know how the Nazis handled these problems. But the following are facts related to the issue.

Zyklon B is/was Hydrogen Cyanide. As a gas, it disperses quickly and is lighter than air. It could be safely vented through a smokestack. And purged with positive air pressure.

This is the same substance commonly used in execution chambers in the American Penal system. Handling of the corpse and post execution clean up did not seem to present a problem here.

Residue on naked bodies could easily be washed away in a shower. Those handling contaminated corpses would not be doing so without rubber gloves, pants, and raincoat.

I spent many, many years of my life working in a wet lab. Potassium Cyanide (ETA: corection, we used NaCN, Sodium Cyanide. Though there is very little practical difference between the two.) was a reagent I used every hour on the hour. It was perfectly safe in solution at pH levels above 7. Had I mixed 10 or 20 ml of the stuff into an acid solution, I could have probably killed everyone in the lab.


Point being, there are ways to handle stuff like this with training and care. Otherwise we would not use any pesticides anywhere.

Cyanide is commonly found in nature. It is present in many grasses, apple seeds, cherry leaves, and in the pits of most common fruits. Sometimes in lethal toxic levels.

Also of note is records in Germany of a tank exhaust, or the exhaust of a motor vehicle piped into a van and used to asphyxiate undesirables.

Right after the war. Leaders of US, Britain, Soviet Union Turn the blind eye. I never knew that myself. Just watched a documentary about it a couple nights ago. Branding germans with swastikas on their foreheads. Burying them in mass graves just like the Einsatzgruppen videos. All kinds of crazy stuff. When the hammer came down that they couldn't kill them anymore, they ran them out of the country.

Update:
Upon further consideration, I don't see how the czechs and poles could have killed an equal number of Germans to what the nazis did during the war..I'll have to watch that documentary again. Not getting much out of google-fu.

LOL. Just a small sampling of the multitude of problems with the narrative.

FO azzwipe.

"The Nuremberg Trials have made the waging of an unsuccessful war a crime; the generals on the defeated side were tried and then hanged." - Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery. June 9th 1948

"The truth of the matter is that not one of the victors was free of the guilt which its judges attributed to the vanquished." - The Chicago Tribune, October 2nd 1946

"In my Judgment, the procedure by which the Nuremberg Tribunal was created and the criminal trials thereunder conducted, was completely fraught with illegality." - William L. Hart, The Supreme Court of Ohio

"This kangaroo court at Nuremberg was officially known as the 'International Military Tribunal.' That name is a libel on the military profession. Nuremberg was, in fact, a lawyers' tribunal, although I can readily understand why the legal profession is ashamed to claim it, and deliberately stuck a false label on it.

"I am glad our real military men had nothing to do with the travesty on justice that the lawyers and 'statesmen' conducted on Nuremberg." - Rear Admiral Dan V. Gallery. U.S.N. (Ret.)

"It was a libel on the military profession." - Vice Admiral Hewlett Thebaud, USN

"It was a fantastic desecration of the ideals of Western Civilisation, and appalling miscarriage of justice... a misuse of evidence for vicious ends, all of which will someday be exposed as a shocking travesty of high legal and moral principles." - Henry M. Adams, Ph.D. Professor of History, University of California

In his book, Profiles in Courage, President John F. Kennedy praised Senator Robert A. Taft of Ohio, for having the courage to publicly denounce the Nuremberg Trials and reveal them to have been held in, "a spirit of vengeance, and vengeance is seldom justice. In these trials we have accepted the Russian idea of the purpose of trials - government policy and not justice - with little relation to Anglo-Saxon heritage."

"It constituted a step backward in international law." - Honorable Justice, Learned Hand

"The trials at Nuremberg constitute a travesty of justice." - Admiral Harry E. Yarnell, U.S.N Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Asiatic Fleet

"It was wholly unjustified and a disgrace to the national governments sanctioning it." - Rear Admiral Reginald R. Belknap, U.S.N. Atlantic Fleet

"The whole notion of such a trial is dishonorable, and offends my Saxon sense of fair play." - General George S. Patton, Commander of the Third United States Army in France and Germany

It wasn't well thought of by its contemporaries.

Does that change the facts contained within the pages of the documents presented?

One must consider the source. I notice you provide no actual documents.

You left out, STORMFRONT!!!!!

Is that you, Steve_NO?

There are a few "what ifs" that contributed to the German's failure to defeat the USSR in 1941.

What if they hadn't been delayed in starting Operation Barbarossa? A portion of the German forces that had been earmarked for Barbarossa were sent to the Balkans to bail out the Italians. When they were done there, the soldiers needed to rested and refit, the equipment was worn and needed to go through maintenance overhaul, and the losses needed to be replaced. The Germans got to within sight of Moscow before they were stopped. Would the outcome have been different if Barbarossa had started earlier and the forces that had been diverted to the Balkans had been available for the initial thrust of Barbarossa?

The German military was not highly mechanized and depended to a large part, as the Russian do today, on rail transportation to provide the enormous logistics support network that war requires. German and Soviet railroad gauges were different, so the Germans couldn't travel over the Soviet railroad network without changing the Soviet's 1.520m gauge to the European standard of 1.435m or changing the European standard wheelsets to Soviet standard wheelsets on every car and every engine. You would have expected the thorough Germans to have had a solution to this known problem ready to implement, but they apparently didn't. It takes a lot of transportation capacity to move the huge volumes of POL, food, ammo, repair parts, etc. to where they are need and when they are needed there.

The Soviet KV-1 and T-34 had better armor protection and a more capable gun, the 76.2mm F-32, until the Panzer IVs were up-gunned with the 75mm KwK 40.

Hitler might have done better if he had concentrated more resources on the attack on Moscow and not spread them so thin.

Another one of those coulda, shoulda, woulda if I'd only known scenarios.

Handy's knowledge of world history starts when JFK was assassinated.

Diary of Anne Frank - fake/fraud

Simon Wiesenthal - fake/fraud

Start to pull some of the thread from the narrative fabric..., it will unravel in front of you.

rost, This is his f'd up way of saying he's jealous. Of what, who the heck knows. It's a him problem and I wouldn't waste two minutes trying to figure it out.

Lol lol #triggeredboomie

A bit amazed that no one commented on the likelihood of Ivan actually getting 13 of these relics in the air at once...

How would we know? Maybe it was. Maybe the world would be worse off today without it. Or maybe not. The trouble is that we can't really know either way.


The Russian and Chinese communist colonialism pretty much stopped after the Viet Nam war. Maybe it was worth it.


We are not.


I do not want war with Russia and I don't know anybody who does. Nobody. Who do you know that actually wants war with Russia?

They are a pretty solid design. Classic USSR; very practical, simple, and rugged.

And!!! Quite useful for moving dirt...

There are 2 sides of America. The slaves and the Slave holders. We've been getting run over for a long time.

We give foreign aid to over 100 countries and they kick some to the Slave Holders who are Israel, their people on Wall Stree, the CYA, NWO, WRF, and Illuminous ones.

We been getting run over, from within by the Neonazis govt infiltrators and them getting us in wars to profit off the Military/Industrial Complex. Their owners are the ones who push and run the wars and MM thinks it means we take no schiett off anyone.

Your pretty spot on.

I was thinking it was Germany who killed a few million Christians and gypsies along with the jews.

So, seems you push the idea the Jews AND Ruskies need to be destroyed.

I would appreciate your clarification.

Yes, it sounds like the fabricated justifications offered by contrarians to oppose what actually happened.

Germany was just defending itself against Poland.

Putin is just defending himself against Ukraine.

They are familiar, alright. And equally ridiculous.

Yes, it's been the home of the decendants of Cain who became the Kenites who became the Khazarian Mafia who became the False Jew Ashkenazi Jews of which Hitler became their leader.

Putin cleaned them out of Kazakhstan before moving into Ukraine. They are the proverbial Head of the Snake.

That's why Trump is calling this the Final Battle.

1 John 3:10 IIRC, Be like Able and not like Cain who is OF the Evil One.

That's how Planted his seed of tares in GODS fertile farrow of Wheat.

(The Evil One seduced Eve in the Garden and for that GOD cut off his legs and wings. Since that time Satan's decendants have hated and fought GODS decendants).

Note JESUS in the Holy Temple. Yee Vipers (they came from the snake), I knew your father, the murderer from the beginning. Yeah, Cain.

That's what we are fighting. For our battle is with the Principalities of evil, they are the decendants of Satan and Cain.

Jag and TRH infecting the same thread.
Hard to tell which is the most Bonkers!

Hey Jag, hey TRH

This is about bombers.

One is willfully ignorant.

The other is fucking nuts.

.
NATO reporting name : Jaginoff

Rocky, I don't think that moron made it through grade school. It's obvious he's an underachiever and lashes out and those who've actually accomplished something in life.

This coming from a loser civil servant....classic

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

Maybe ribka will learn, maybe not.

Indeed.

Could be that it's not true, or at least exaggerated.

I am so glad I ran across this discussion. I had no idea how kindly the Nazis treated their Jewish citizens. All these years I had been told the Jews and other undesirables were loaded up and taken off to camps designed to murder them and efficiently dispose of the bodies.

Now I find out the Germans were just moving them out of harms way and taking them to nice places where they could shower and then have nice well fumigated barracks free from lice and vermin.

If the Americans, British, and Russians would not have cut off the food supply we would have never seen the awful photographs of starving typhus infected guests at the German civilian protection camps.

Literally every one of your answers is wrong. Every single one

Those of us that had the temerity to think the Jewish citizens of Third Reich controlled territory were murdered owe a heartfelt apology to the Germans and our resident anti-Semites for the slander we put on them.

The war on terror was a money making scheme. 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi, yet we attacked 2 different countries, not them. The middle east is a bigger nightmare now that it was before we invaded. Thats not even debatable.

Vietnam served no purpose other than to feed the MIC and kill off thousands upon thousands of our countries young men. We didnt stop communism and better yet, our country has become exactly what we were told we were stopping

We are already at war with Russia. Nato has boots on the ground and NATO has been the ones controlling the show. Ukes dont have anyone left. This is why Putin just officially announced they are at war. Everyone who has any clue as to what is happening in Ukraine knows that its the US and nato that Russia is currently fighting

Just back read through any of these types of threads and you will see more than enough fat, old, tough guys that are more than willing to send our children off to die to fight the Russian boogeyman

Maybe our ruling cabal and NATO don't want a war with Russia and are not trying to provoke that war but they apparently for sure have Russia fooled into thinking they do.

Personally I'm positive the NWO/NATO/USA and their bankers are intent on the destruction of Russia as an independent nation.

Russia and its vast wealth has been a target of the west since Napoleon and even earlier.

Our current illegal gov hates anything that they cant control. Especially white religious folks

That nasty ole Russian boogeyman again, 70 years now that Russia is behind everything wrong. Getting old hat folks kinda like the racist tag, throw it out there enough and you take it for the lie it is. NATO/EU/USA were behind this otherwise they wouldnt be trying so hard to gaslight it.

Please quote where anybody in this thread wants war with Russia. Si vis pax, parabellum works both ways, war with Russia would seriously hurt, and vice-versa.

Nobody here wants war with Russia and nobody here wants to send any of our troops over there.

Nobody is saying that.

You assume what you seek to prove.

It's not "gaslighting" to tell the truth. You are welcome of course to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Spot on!

If you seriously think that, you should spend some time back reading on any thread that involves Russia or Ukraine. There are people on here foaming at the mouth for it. Same in our Gov. This is a waste of time even debating this.

It's a classic example of Gaslighting - telling you you don't see what is right in front of you.

Who you gonna believe, plumbum or your lying eyes?

For sure

Haha!

Please cite one example.

It's only a "waste of time" if you know there are no examples to be found.

Spot on ^

History, culture, religion, national identity, family...everything the Elitist Globalist cabal hate.(Russia made LGBTQ illegal) Soros said it in 1991 when the USSR collapsed, "Russia must be destroyed" but added that Eastern European boys must pay the butcher's bill cause Western countries would not tolerate it. This has all come true. But Russia said not today.

Most of Europe is in line with the globalist dream but Russia is a thorn in the side of the elitist, globalist utopia.

As well as almost unlimited resources so it can be raped of these resources when Russia is defeated, balkanized, and a puppet regime installed favorable to the west.

The problem is too many ignorant, brainwashed, cold war boomers still think Russia is the USSR, which it is not.

MAGA!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

Uh no, its a waste of my time because there are so many examples, its not worth arguing with you. Look into yourself

Things can sure make some odd twists and turns. 50 years ago who would have thought the defender of freedom and justice in the world would be Russia. I am almost to the point of seeing Russia and a few smaller nations such as Hungary as the last holdouts against an evil plan to rule the world.

What I like most about Russia is its enemies. They give Russia a lot of credibility.

Spot on as well! At least the voting base who believes that chit is shrinking every day. Clot shot is puttin in work lol. Enough of the Gen x and up are waking up to the world around them.

Exactly what Im basing this on. All the ones who hate Russia and want war are on the complete opposite side of me and every true freedom loving conservative. Im totally fine with where Im at on all this craziness. Being on the other side of dems, rinos and angry fat old war mongering men has me sleeping well at night

Have the dropped their loads yet?

A few Putin Pufters are swallowing Orc loads.

But what did Q say?

13? 13? Back in the day our little country had way more than 13 up in the air...SAC.

Yup.

Nobody, and they are not now.

You really think the Russian justice system and freedoms are better than ours? What "freedoms" do they have?

Nobody hates Russia


Nobody wants war


Ah yes, the No True Scotsman fallacy.


Sleep well in your imaginary world.

Nobody hates Russia, nobody wants war with Russia, that's all in your head. Until you show is where anybody said those things here, *you* are gaslighting *us*, and perhaps unwittingly yourself too.

Support your accusations, it's your burden.

They are free to have the Orcs cut your ear off and make you eat it during an arrest.

Good, the US paid terrorists deserved it

Are you one of Burns sock puppet accounts? Once again, this info I have posted is so well known, that I would be embarrassed to write what you just wrote. Not worth my time. Do yourself a favor and do some research. You really need it bad lol

Bingo!

My father went on 2 missions into the Dachau camps. He rarely spoke about it, but did infrequently tell me short stories about what he saw.

Don't ever believe these wacko nutbag history revisionists here. The Holocaust was real.

I'm just waiting for the campfire to come across the video of desert scheme armor being moved on a train, headed west, outside of Las Vegas last week as proof positive we're gearing up for civil war, Russian War, China War, WWIII. (Ignore NTC)

My pap fought over there and told me of many stories as well. Obviously I wasnt there, but I believe my pap and the terrible things he saw. Gave him nightmares

Havent heard this one yet

"The Holocaust" is a doctrinal rubric. There were certainly real things that happened during WWII, and lots of people were mistreated, suffered, and died, on all sides. Nobody denies that. The questions relate to the existence of a program of mass murder of Jews. That's where the arguments break down, and aren't supported by real facts.

PS No legitimate historians any longer even claim that there were homicidal gas chambers at Dachau. In fact, all allegations regarding gas chambers in any camp outside the post-war control of the Soviet Union have been dropped by all serious historians.

Who decides who are "legitimate" and "serious" historians? Is it like during the pandemic any scientist, physician, or epidemiologist who didn't agree with leftwing ideology was classified a quack, fired, and/or ostracized? Now, we're finding out they were correct all along.

Utter repugnant bullshit.

Please reference these serious historians so that we may all read their theories for our edification.

Well, eliminate those with an axe to grind on the question, first off. But even most of them no longer claim there were any homicidal gas chambers in any camps outside the control of the post-war Soviet Union. To do otherwise would make them laughing stocks among historians.

Also odd how they all tattooed themselves in a similar fashion, funny that.

aneyone dedd yet?
editication, that mean you gettin humgry

.
Good on Eisenhower to make the local villagers walk through and see all those dead bodies, starving survivors and the ovens that produced that strange smell over the village.
Or maybe it was just Hollywood trickery ?

Dr. Martin Broszat (Munich's Institute of Contemporary History) stated in 1960 that, at the very least, we can be certain that "no mass gassings ever occurred in the Old Reich" (i.e., Germany). Dachau is in Germany.

In April of 1975, Simen Weisenthal (acclaimed Holocaust historian) stated that "No gassings took pace in any camp on German soil." He stated in 1993, "It is true that there were no extermination camps on German soil."

I could go on.

Nobody denies any of that.

I've toured the Dachau Concentration Camp twice. It is located just northwest of Munich and didn't have a gassing facility, inmates were just killing other ways. There were many concentration camps, but only 6 extermination factories were established following the Wannsee Conference in 01/42 where "The Final Solution" was mapped out, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor, and Treblinka, all in occupied Poland.

Are you denying that the Wannsee Conference took place and that it was where the SS, represented by Reinhard Heydrich, mapped out the process for exterminating European Jews?

Let's see the precise language. No one denies that a resolution to the "Jewish Question" was a common topic of conversation, not only in Germany, but throughout Europe. Germany was operating in alliance with the international Zionist movement to relocate Jews to Palestine. This "final solution," however, was interrupted by the breakout of general war, preventing German transport of civilians via the high seas. The alternative they transitioned to was the FDR strategy, i.e., internment, as he was putting into operation vis a vis Americans of Japanese ancestry.

Ho
Lee
Phuck

Here's a coin minted by the international Zionist movement to commemorate Hitler's efforts to relocate Jews to Palestine.

Man, do I ever agree with you on that.

You do realize I was being sarcastic to the max I hope. Holocaust deniers know better. They approve of Hitler's solution is the only thing I can figure.

You are a full of schit Holocaust denier, as I have always said. BTW, Jews weren't the only group that died in the Holocaust.

The first Kibbutz farm was set up in Germany, with the cooperation of at least two international Zionist organizations. The purpose was to instruct German Jews on what life will be like after they are relocated to Palestine, in accordance with the final solution to Europe's Jewish question. The instructors there were all Jewish Zionists, at Hitler's invitation. The program remained active till 1942.

It might be thoroughly scrubbed from the internet since the purge of 2016, but try looking up the Haavara Agreement

TRH is playing sematics word games.

Poland was controlled by the Soviet Union POST WAR. Just not when the Nazis were gassing the undesirables.

Plenty of machine gunning and such went on in places that did not have gassing showers.

Pretty sick to play those types of word games on the topic but his Jew hate will justify his behaviour in his mind.

Sometimes an intervention is demanded by national interests. It's not about creating some imaginary global utopia. You can add an "ism" to it to suit your own ideas, but an intervention is a means to an end, not the end itself. Intervention is not the desired endstate.

I'm going to help you out here, going back to the fundamental fact we are a maritime nation,

"...........A maritime nation is any nation that borders the sea and is dependent on its use for the majority of the following state activities: commerce and transport, war, to define a territorial boundary, or for any maritime activity (activities using the sea to convey or produce an end result)...."

Twenty years ago the John Birch Society was peddling they Holocaust Denying crap and gun shows. The idea seemed interesting so I took one of their fliers with all the evidence that the Holocaust was a farce. After about 2 weeks of research it became clear to me these guys were Kooks and I wanted nothing to do with them.

Yes, I know. A little humor or baiting is all it takes to smoke out these Holocaust deniers. And they will go on for days with their "proof"

Try to keep up, John. The above concerns the observation that the only camps that continued after the war to be identified as death camps under German control during the war were those located within the Soviet sphere of influence after the close of the war, i.e., beyond the reach of Western investigators. Thus the claims about gas chambers there could not be challenged. The Soviets had been generating anti-German propaganda about such things since early on in the war, and continued to perpetuate it long after its end.

Okay.

Are you just quibbling about the method of mass murder of Jews and others by the Germans or claiming there was no mass murder of Jews and others by the Germans?

So, all of the records that the SS kept and were captured by the western allies were fake?

He shoots, he scores !!! Foo for the Win.

.
I had no idea the Hitler was such a humanitarian and so concerned with the welfare of the Jews.
The things that one can learn on the Fire.
Who knew ?

Technically we are at 16 pages now lol

7 pages if you're doing it right.

Up for the response.

The B-52 still gets it done.

Ghey

Well, that and the moon landing.....

Only if you're a tard who does not know how to work the internet.

You guys never let me down. Thanks !!!

Let's see them.

I'm saying that "It is true that there were no extermination camps on German soil." - Simon Wiesenthal

In other words, while it was originally claimed that all the German camps were extermination camps, after investigation by Western historians following the war, the claim that an extermination program was underway in the camps that were subject to Western examination after the war had to be abandoned. All that was left after that were the Soviet claims that the camps under their ambit of control after the war had indeed been extermination camps, with gas chambers and all.

This, however, was a mere continuation of their wartime propaganda program against Germany. After the end of the Cold War, their claims could not be upheld as true. In fact, when pressed, the curator of Auschwitz was forced to admit that the gas chamber people visit there is a prop, constructed by the Soviets after the war. It had actually been a bomb shelter during the war onto which the Soviets added ports on top through which they proposed that the Germans poured Zyklon B on top of the Jews who were locked inside.

It's a fake. In fact, Zyklon B cannot even be used that way. It comes in the form of little pebbles that are perfectly safe until heated to high heat in a specialized machine with a blower.

This thread reveals that TRH is making a play for Jags KOTY status. They’re neck in neck.

You’re the one making outlandish claims. The burden of proof is on you.

Okay.

I'll ask more directly.

Do you believe the Germans conducted systemic mass murder of Jews and others?

I really don't care about the means of the mass murder or whether it happened in Germany or Poland.

35 years ago when I toured Dachau, they said there were no gassing showers there. The gasding took place at a nearby facitlity.

The idea that Germans would not have rejected Holocaust lies as false is as unrealistic as your lies.

I thought I'd been clear on that. No. That started as Soviet war propaganda, and once Germany was prostrate, the West decided they could play that angle up to justify to the world what they had planned to do to Germany.

Were there war crimes? Yes, on all sides.

So, let me get this right...

Putin didn't nuke us? And now the holocaust didn't happen?

Lol.

They murdered a LOT of people without gas. I guess you've never seen the German locals paraded past and forced to look at stacks and stacks of dead and disfigured bodies. The documentary I saw the other night had a man's head submerged in a plastic case full of liquid sawed perfectly in half down the middle of his head. One eye and half his nose peering eerily from the one side. But I didn't check to see if he was gassed, shot or starved to death.

You Holocaust deniers really are a bunch of kooks.

Do you dare contradict the word of Simon Wiesenthal??

Are you confused?
My post was addressed to TRH to provide evidence of his claims.
What outlandish claims did I make?

He's not so good at interneting.

I read his post as directed to TRH but I am good a diciphering gibberish.

If your going to call someone a Holocaust Denier you should at least address the correct person.

I thought it was pretty clear he was addressing TRK.

The multi quotes can get cumbersome - we’ve all done it.

Thank God (Rik Bin) for the UP button

I remember as a child my dad said when he was a prisoner of war in Germany he was “ de loused” at I believed a concentration camp.

But I never really followed it up …….

I can’t imagine it’s all fake?

Did they sell tin foil back then?

Was it rationed?

The Germans didn’t kill six million Jews in the camps, they killed more like two to three million in the camps. In the Soviet Union, Poland, and the Baltics they killed at least three million Jews by shooting. Of course, they killed a lot more civilians who weren’t Jews than that. They also killed at least as many, probably more, Soviet Prisoners of war in camps than they did Jews in the camps. Around three million Soviet prisoners of war died in POW camps.

There is no doubt that Hitler wanted to rid Germany of its Jews. Before the war, they wanted to send them to Palestine and maybe, Madagascar. That’s historical fact. Once the war started, they couldn’t ship them anywhere and frankly no one wanted them. Roosevelt refused to accept an mere shipload of Jews and they were turned down at port after until the ship was forced to return Europe.

I don’t think there is any doubt Jews were worked to death and many killed outright. But, lots of things get lost in the shuffle. More were killed by shooting than any other means and there were relatively few German soldiers involved. What they did would have been impossible without the enthusiastic help of the local populations in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics, and elsewhere. Only in a few countries was there any official resistance to getting rid of the Jews. Most of the ones in the camps came from Western countries where they would have balked at shooting them but were only too happy to load them onto trains, steal all their stuff, and ship them east.

About six million Polish citizens died during the war. About half of them were Poles and the rest were Jews. So of the alleged six million Jews who died, half were Polish and as many non-Jew Poles died as Jews. About two million Soviet Jews were killed. Of course, 19 million Soviet civilians who weren’t Jews were killed as well. And of course, almost 4 million German civilians died in the war.

From say October 1944 to the end of the war there were around one million deaths a month. I’m just not all that worked up by the Jews anymore. A bunch of them got killed. Welcome to the party. It was the biggest war in human history and most of them lived in the area where the bulk of the people who got killed lived. Were they targeted? Yeah, probably. That doesn’t make them any more or less dead than anyone else. Hitler was no more or less evil than any number of people like Ghengis Khan (who killed at least a tenth of the world’s population), Timurlaine, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and many others simply because he chose to direct a big portion of his efforts towards Jews.

OK, I guess we can agree that Hitler was no worse than Tamerlane or maybe Genghis Khan so he was an OK guy.

First World War anti-German propaganda.





Of course, after the war, Germany still existed, so it could publicly contradict it. As a result, it was eventually accepted that it wasn't true, having been mere war propaganda.

I suspect when everyone who was alive then is dead, and one group of people no longer wants to milk the victimhood teat above all other groups, Hitler will be looked at with the same detachment by history all those other guys.

Whatever happened back then, I didn’t do it, I refuse to feel guilty about, nor do I feel the need to try and compare every modern situation to it and look for lessons in it. About eight to ten times more non Jews died in that war than Jews did. So why do we insist on making it all about them? Answer that.

Well now, it might be that Jews were a special target, not just collateral damage. It might be that Jews are not much over 1% of the population of the world but get singled out most likely due to envy over their high level of achievement and intelligence.

It most of all might have to do with the percentage of their population killed in the war without regard to sex, age, or any other condition. All that was required was to be a Jew.

Sure, a lot of people died in a most savage decade but percentage wise the Jews took the worst of it.

Relax. It's directed at TRH. Including your post was only to add context Of the documentary I saw.

I don't ever post gibberish, you stupid fugk. I've explained why I included his post, genius.

That’s not even true. By percentage more Gypsies died than Jews.

Total deaths attributed to WW2 in The Netherlands was 2.36% of the population.

Three quarters of the Dutch Jewish population died in WW2.

Any other questions?

Are them goddam Soviet planes still in the sky? Sheesh.

Al Gore made a documentary.

It won more awards than the ones bout the hoaxocaust.

But then it's easy ta convince people that ya can show half a head and will therefore conclude six mil died.

Mainly because the Dutch were extra anxious to get rid of their Jews and not too anxious to fight the Germans.

That's what you're going with? Final answer?

Postin amorphous statistics ta justify a result went out with bolo-19.

How DARE you question a 79 yr old member with 20 year membership pen

No links posted, etc

Sure, why not? Got to be some reason why Dutch Jews were eliminated at a much higher percentage than they were in Belgium and France, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.

I know. Right?

Talk about the scope creep..

What percentage of non combatant Gypsies died and what percentage of noncombatant Jews died out of their respective populations. I admit I don't have the breakdown by ethnicity but it is generally conceded that 1/2 or more of continental European Jews did not survive the war

By the way, lets don't consider the Jews killed in the Warsaw uprising as combatant Jews please.

And JoeBob, do you approve of lethal elimination of Jews?

There is no Soviet Union anymore.

Apparently no holocaust either.

And the Germans didn’t kill some ethnicity severely? You’re being questioned for that ,brother.

The International Red Cross, who had access to the camps throughout the war, right after the war went to great lengths to calculate an accurate figure for that, so you are in luck. They figured about 271,000 total deaths in the camps (mostly during the last months of the war, and mostly from typhus), of which about half were Jewish.

They also noted that, despite many visits to the camps during their operation, they witnessed no evidence of a mass murder program of any sort, and no gas chambers. In fact, they inspected the shower facilities in every camp to make sure they functioned correctly, so that inmates could regularly bathe themselves. No fake showers were found.

Well, I am relieved to hear that.

See, you can’t even have your narrative questioned in the slightest way, without quickly accusing someone of anti-Semitism. I’ll bet you got pissed when people who said “All lives matter” got accused of being racist for not saying “Black lives matter.” I don’t approve of the lethal elimination of any human being. Jews are no better or worse than any other and don’t deserve special victimhood status.

Biggest victory for the jews wasn't Israel, but gettin white people to virtue signal bout the holocaust.

I guess my question was somewhat accusatory in the context of this whole discussion so I will apologize for that. But I do wonder about some of our members here that seem to have an abiding distaste for the Jewish people with some even siding with and justifying the recent attack by the Arabs that was well coordinated, murderous, and launched from the Gaza Ghetto using money and material donated by foreign benefactors for humanitarian relief.

Do you winder about the distaste that people have for the race hustlers who make everything about “racism”?

Amazing how real facts are always in conflict with the received narrative on this subject, isn't it?

See, here where speculation and supposition gets you in trouble. The primary cause of the high rate of capture was the near perfect population records of the Dutch civil service, and the failure of the various Dutch county authorities to destroy those records before they could fall in German hands. The Netherlands was overrun in a matter of days, and the Germans had learned from their earlier forays into Poland and other countries to control the civil service immediately.

Unlike Denmark, where 90% of the Jews survived mostly by fleeing in a flotilla of little gentile fishing boats across the Baltic to Sweden, The Netherlands was immediately occupied and governed by Germany, and no escape for the Jews across the North Sea was practical. The loss of the vast majority of Jews, including of course, Anne Frank, remains a black mark on the nation.

Even French Jews had a path to escape through the mountains to Switzerland or Spain. The % of jews lost in the war was generally correlated to the ability to leave and the level of organization and documentation of the individual country.

Like I said, the Dutch surrendered early and easily and their civil authorities were all too willing to cooperate with their German cousins.

Yeah, you said that. It doesn’t bother me at all when you are wrong.

Again, compare with the Danes. The Danes didn’t even fight, and negotiated for self rule. Both countries had moderate resistance levels that led to retribution actions in ‘43, including the start of round ups of the Jews. In Denmark, there were far fewer Jews than in The Netherlands, and far less concentrated.

Was there collaboration? Hell, yes, both in Denmark and in The Netherlands. The main difference was than in Denmark, the Jews were few enough that escape was possible, mostly in one night in ‘43, across the Baltic. In the Netherlands, Jewish survival depended on cooperation and protection from gentiles, at risk of death, for over two years. With all necessities of life rationed, food, fuel, clothing, travel, everything. In the harsh winter of ‘44/‘45, the population in occupied Holland was starving, literally, due to low food rations. Starving, as in eating tulip bulbs and rats. The Germans cut off all food shipments to the major Northern cities, and the allies literally made bombing runs with bread. An estimated 20,000 civilians starved to death. Hiding and keeping Jews fed under those circumstances was practically impossible.

Gilad Atzom, an ex-Jew who has written a lot on Judaism, has a simple formula: "Antisemitism used to mean you hate Jews. Now it means Jews hate you."

I have mixed emotions on the racism issue and race hustlers. I despise the hue and cry of racism when the likes of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, or George Floyd end up dead because of their crimes. And the race hustlers such as Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, and Ben Crump, et al are beneath contempt. But I was a child raised on a farm in the south in the late 50s and early 60s and I saw what was basically slavery and extreme racial discrimination. My parents weren't racist but we lived amongst an extended family and neighbors that were racist to the extreme. My father was a retired U.S Naval officer and almost 50 when I was born. We lived among my mother's relatives. In 1963 we moved to Utah for 5 years so we missed a lot of the turmoil.

Anyway, from what I witnessed as a child if I were black of that age I don't know if I would be forgiving. That said, we've made good progress in that our majority white parish (county) elected a good black lawman as sheriff for 5 terms and he served admirably and blacks enroll in our local university and work in just about all of the trades and professions here locally.

So, no I don't like race hustlers but I do understand why my best neighbor who is black and 68 years old hasn't quite let go of how his family was treated back then. I wouldn't completely let it go if it were me.

I think pre 1960s race problems in the USA being remembered correlate somewhat with the Jews and others not forgetting where anti Semitism ended up in the memory of some still living.

This. Although I thought it was Joe Sobran who came up with it.

He he he, you are off by over a decade. No one that I know would have believed what came over on the radio via bs national news anyway. (no fricken links available.) 😀

How 'bout pics ?
Got any pics ?

Where did you get that?

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/icrc-wwii-holocaust

If the Jews in Europe were not rounded up and murdered what happened to them? Why were they rounded up and shipped to detention? For a country at war that would have been a huge drag on the war effort to have to locate and send millions of productive age citizens to summer camp and take them away from work and service.

Only ordinary citizens were sent to forced labor in Germany. Jews were thought of so highly, they didn’t have to work in the war effort at all! Just leisure camps!

You think the Germans were the ones doing the rounding up of the Jews? Ha, most countries couldn’t wait to do it for them.

I think there is quite a bit of truth in what you say. I understand that once Romania came under German "protection" the Romanians gleefully killed their Jews.

What was the impetus to eliminate the Jews in continental Europe?

And I thought the discussion was about nukes.

No. We chase whatever rabbit jumps up.

Many died in the camps during the last (European theater) months of the war, due to sudden overcrowding (a result of the German withdrawal), lack of supplies like food, medicine, potable water, pesticide for the control of typhus-spreading lice, etc. (the result of allied bombing and strafing raids), many moved to Palestine (The Nazis established over 100 settlements for them in Western Galilee - research the Haavara Agreement), and many simply ended up behind the Iron Curtain after the war. But, according to the World Almanac, despite all this, the world's Jewish population actually rose when measured before and after the war (15,748,091 – 15,753,638). The camps were work camps. Not all Jews were sent there, though.

During this time period, Jewish and communist were nearly synonymous, so any rounding up of communists (presumed Soviet sympathizers/operatives) would necessarily involve a large percentage of Jews.

Germany was at war with communism in the form of the Soviet Union. Jews were known sympathizers and supporters of the Soviet Union during this period, and went to no great lengths to hide this fact. Germany made essentially the same calculation that the FDR administration did vis a vis Japanese Americans, that is to say (after the continuation of the relocation program to Palestine was made impossible due to the outbreak of world war), interned them.

The International Red Cross published a three volume report immediately after the war in which that information is contained.

My dad’s recollection of being in a prisoner of war camp by the Germans was not one of accommodations.

He was lucky to escape, the SS arrived with a deuce and half type truck, wanted all officers to load up.

He stripped off his rank, entered the enlisted barracks .The enlisted men gave him a wire cutter, told him to leave.

If he didn’t leave the enlisted men believed they would all be executed.

A polish officer went with him. He said it was harder to escape from the French, who captured him escaping the Germans.

My dad was 100% German…..the French of course captured him out of uniform.

When I served in Germany in the 8 th ID in the eighties …I couldn’t believe how many times I thought I saw my Dad.

Many people in Germany looked like my Dad.

Thank God the Russian beat the German nazis and helped save your Dad's life .

Is that why you hate Putin now?

lol confused boomer