It will be appealed and likely get sent to SCOTUS. If it goes back to the SCROTUS, will Roberts double-down on his traitorous PoS ruling or will he be honest this time an reconcile with the Constitution?
The Judge ruled that when Congress repealed the tax penalty last year, it eliminated the U.S. Supreme Court’s rationale for finding the ACA constitutional in 2012.
I thought congress already got rid of the individual mandate, or at least the associated fines.
They got rid of the fines, which Roberts called a Tax to justify it's alleged constitutionality. This judge says that since they nixed the tax, they also nixed Roberts excuse for calling it constitutional, and ruled the entire mess, lock, stock, and barrel, is unconstitutional.
The Judge ruled that when Congress repealed the tax penalty last year, it eliminated the U.S. Supreme Court’s rationale for finding the ACA constitutional in 2012.
I thought congress already got rid of the individual mandate, or at least the associated fines.
They got rid of the fines, which Roberts called a Tax to justify it's alleged constitutionality. This judge says that since they nixed the tax, they also nixed Roberts excuse for calling it constitutional, and ruled the entire mess, lock, stock, and barrel, is unconstitutional.
Originally Posted by stevelyn
It will be appealed and likely get sent to SCOTUS. If it goes back to the SCROTUS, will Roberts double-down on his traitorous PoS ruling or will he be honest this time an reconcile with the Constitution?
If the vote is 5 to 3, does he even get to weigh in?
The Judge ruled that when Congress repealed the tax penalty last year, it eliminated the U.S. Supreme Court’s rationale for finding the ACA constitutional in 2012.!
Yet nothing has changed and won't.
O-care is here to stay....they may water it down a bit but I it ain't going anywhere.
Obama,the first crack smoking,d i c k sucking,closet homosexual,Communist,Muslim criminal to occupy the White house,is watching his pathetic legacy being erased before his eyes.LOL
Obama,the first crack smoking,d i c k sucking,closet homosexual,Communist,Muslim criminal to occupy the White house,is watching his pathetic legacy being erased before his eyes.LOL
The damage has been done. Rates are up and will never come down. I did not hear the insurance companies fighting obummercare. Ed k
They weren't fighting them because they were being strong armed. If you know the difference between PROFIT and PROFIT MARGIN, you'd see where insurance companies are. But as always there are exceptions, and cronyism, was rampant, like with AARP. Most, were losing their shirts and that is why they were pulling out of states in droves.
The US spends 6-7% of GDP more on Healthcare then all other 1st world nations... Thats 2x US military budget just as profits into insurance, medical and Pharma companies.
The US spends 18% compared to 11%.. get worse outcomes in basically everything, with hundreds of thousands of medical bankrupcies each year and tens of thousands of lives cut short, compared to other 1st world nations.
The US spends 6-7% of GDP more on Healthcare then all other 1st world nations... Thats 2x US military budget just as profits into insurance, medical and Pharma companies.
The US spends 18% compared to 11%.. get worse outcomes in basically everything, with hundreds of thousands of medical bankrupcies each year and tens of thousands of lives cut short, compared to other 1st world nations.
...and if it weren't for the U.S. and it's never ending innovations in the healthcare field, we'd still be relying on leeches and voodoo.
The US spends 6-7% of GDP more on Healthcare then all other 1st world nations... Thats 2x US military budget just as profits into insurance, medical and Pharma companies.
The US spends 18% compared to 11%.. get worse outcomes in basically everything, with hundreds of thousands of medical bankrupcies each year and tens of thousands of lives cut short, compared to other 1st world nations.
Obviously the MORON has no clue about profits and profit MARGIN and where insurance companies are.
The US spends 6-7% of GDP more on Healthcare then all other 1st world nations... Thats 2x US military budget just as profits into insurance, medical and Pharma companies.
The US spends 18% compared to 11%.. get worse outcomes in basically everything, with hundreds of thousands of medical bankrupcies each year and tens of thousands of lives cut short, compared to other 1st world nations.
...and if it weren't for the U.S. and it's never ending innovations in the healthcare field, we'd still be relying on leeches and voodoo.
Right... The US is the only country that has a functional research facilities, colleges and Pharma corps....
The US spends 6-7% of GDP more on Healthcare then all other 1st world nations... Thats 2x US military budget just as profits into insurance, medical and Pharma companies.
The US spends 18% compared to 11%.. get worse outcomes in basically everything, with hundreds of thousands of medical bankrupcies each year and tens of thousands of lives cut short, compared to other 1st world nations.
Obviously the MORON has no clue about profits and profit MARGIN and where insurance companies are.
Right right... let me rephrase that.. Private insurance, Private Hospitals and Pharma wastes 7-8% of the US GDP each year in less coverage, sicker people, more deaths, more bankruptcies then any other 1st world nation.
Almost a $Trillion in waste each year due to Private Healthcare!
The US spends 6-7% of GDP more on Healthcare then all other 1st world nations... Thats 2x US military budget just as profits into insurance, medical and Pharma companies.
The US spends 18% compared to 11%.. get worse outcomes in basically everything, with hundreds of thousands of medical bankrupcies each year and tens of thousands of lives cut short, compared to other 1st world nations.
I rec you move to a safer place. I dont guess you have a clue as to the inner city dumbass dimocraps drs are supposed to take care of. You also have no clue as to the numbers of dope heads dying in this nation due to your buds demands for open borders. I have plenty of patients with diabetic vascular disease who wont give up smoking, beer or flour tortillas.
Youre a dumb fucgk.
Your kind want addictive illegal drugs, kids having addicted babys and long life spans. LOL, you stupid bastid.
Numbnuts has obviously never tried to get an appointment with the VA if he even remotely thinks that the government can run a program efficiently. Takes 6 months to get an appointment for annual exam, two months to get a hearing aid turned in for repair, another month to repair and I keep standing appts every two months for that reason now
That is why all the canadians and Brits have death panels now and come to the US for treatment. VA and the Union made an agreement that doctors cannot file electronic claims in year 2018, have to do it by paper so union employees can scan them into the system and slow roll payments so it fails. My ortho practice was owed half million when they quit taking VA. My knee replacement surgery approval would have take 6-12 months to get from VA.
The Swedes pay 50-61% in individual taxes, 9 % in a VAT tax and business only pay 15% max as they understood they had to make businesses survive. Plus no state taxes. That is exactly opposite of what the Demoncrats are calling for. We have 49% that pay ZERO taxes. That is major reason why that crap will never work here. Can you see CA, NY and NJ giving up state taxes and Demoncrats calling for minimum 50% tax on everyone while lowering business taxes. The libtard lemmings will tar and feather them.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Then emigrate already!!!!
So you are fine with the fact that 7% of the US GDP is flushed down the drain each year, because you dont belive in Government run healthcare. Even if its a proven fact, all over the world to be a superior model.
I have many patients who have worked all their life without a college degree or high paying job NoMan. They took home 1800-2800 bucks a month and paid 743 a month for health insurance.
Now they would have to pay $1250/mo and are still working 6 days a week and now have no health insurance you lying piece of schiett. They cant afford health insurance now.
Now we have 30 million working poor who can no longer afford health insurance you lying piece of schiett.
Surgeons who wish to continue treating medicare patients are closing their offices due to impending financial ruin and going to work for hospitals. Other Drs are going to work for jack in the box er clinics who will not treat medicare patients.
None of my dr patients have kids who are going to be drs (as opposed to many years ago) except for one who is studying to be a dentist.
One of my female patients got her license to practice Pediatric Medicine. After tabulating her expected annual income due to a high medicade population and considering the exhorbitant cost of opening, equiping and staffing a clinic she elected to take a job as a life flight nurse in Ca.
You are nothing more than a stupid gullible fool who swallows the msm and dnc line of BS fed to you. Sorry if the truth hurts.
PS: Get a clue. You are a dumbfuk because its what you prefer, not because the truth isnt available.
I have many patients who have worked all their life without a college degree or high paying job NoMan. They took home 1800-2800 bucks a month and paid 743 a month for health insurance.
Now they would have to pay $1250/mo and are still working 6 days a week and now have no health insurance you lying piece of schiett.
Now we have 30 million working poor who can no longer afford health insurance you lying piece of schiett.
Yeah.. because Republicans destroyed the Affordable Care Act.. after they destroyed the Affordable Care Act.
The Affordable care act slowed down the price increases.. while Republican run states refused to implement it, ruing it for everybody.
The Dems, took a Republican plan, implemented it, after Republicans got to put in to much junk into the bill, then spent 7 years trying to destroy their own plans, and during those 7 years had NO back up plan. They are a party without a plan.. just complain complain complain...
In other 1st world nations, they pay almost 1/2 in healthcare costs, go the the doctor whenever they want or need, live longer, get better care, better advice, cheaper medications, don´t pay out of pocket for surgeries... and whenever they have to wait for a surgery, when they can´t work, they get most of their paychecks covered by the state until they are done with the surgery,
All the while paying almost 1/2 compared to the US.
Now the Reps wet dream would be total Free market Healthcare system... how much more would say it could save by doing it? US spends 17% of GDP Other 1st world nations pays 9-11% of GDP? Totally Free market : 5-6-7-8%
You are willing to forgo a savings of 5-7% of US GDP, that covers EVERY single America, from birth to their deaths, just so you can get a theoretical savings of 2-3% more?
Keep in mind no other Nation has a completely free market system... must be a reason for it. No?
Even if its a proven fact, all over the world to be a superior model.
Hahaha..
Superior model? Hahaha, yourself. Rationing, minimalist treatment, lack of choice? I believe GB has a VAT of what, 20% to cover their public system. That's not cheap, mister. Hospitals there, by my witness have 20+ bed wards, and are 1950s standards. Testing that is routine here will not be routine there. Poor risk patients are covered for "elective" procedures - which could be your 80 year old mother needing heart bypass or a hip replacement. 8 months wait to get an MRI IF you are approved. >You will search long and hard to find an Anglo doctor in a hospital in GB.
No thanks!
Just a reminder, Walt: HEALTH CARE AROUND THE WORLD INTERNATIONAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS Health Care Around the World: Great Britain April 23, 2018Jason Shafrin11 Comments Great Britain represents all that is good and bad with centralized, single-payer health care systems. Health care spending is fairly low (7.5% of GDP) and very equitable. Long wait lists for treatment, however are endemic and rationing pervades the system. Patients have little choice of provider and little access to specialists. [/color] Percent Insured. ~100%
Funding. Great Britain has a single payer system funded by general revenues. With any centralized system, avoiding deficits is difficult. In 2006, Great Britain had a £700 million deficit despite the fact that health care spending increased by £43 billion over five years.
Private Insurance. 10% of Britons have private health insurance. Private health insurance replicates the coverage provided by the NHS, but gives patients access to higher quality care, and reduced waiting times.
Physician Compensation. Unlike in the case of other single payer systems such as Norway, most physicians and nurses are mostly government employees. In 2004, the NHS negotiated lower salaries for doctors in exchange for reduced work hours. Few physicians are available at night or on weekends. Because of low compensation, there is a significant shortage of specialists.
Physician Choice. Patients have very little physician choice. However, under the experimental London Patient Choice Project, patients waiting more than six months for treatment will be offered a choice of four different treatment providers.
Copayment/Deductibles. There are no deductibles and almost no copayments except for small copayments for prescription drugs, as well as for optical and dental care.
Waiting Times. Waiting lists are a huge problem in Great Britain. Some examples: 750,000 are on waiting lists for hospital admission; 40% of cancer patients are never able to see an oncologist; there is explicit rationing for services such as kidney dialysis, open heart surgery and care for the terminally ill. Further, minimum waiting times have been instituted to reduce costs. “A top-flight hospital like Suffolk Est PCT was ordered to impose a minimum waiting time of at least 122 days before patients could be treated or the hospital would lose a portion of its funding.”
Benefits Covered. The NHS system offers comprehensive coverage. Because of rationing, care might not be as easy to get as advertised. Terminally ill patients may be denied treatment. David Cameron has proposed that the NHS refuse treatment to smokers or the obese (see 7 Sept 2007 post).
Tanner, Michael D. (2008) “The Grass Is Not Always Greener: A Look at National Health Care Systems Around the World” Cato Policy Analysis no. 613.
Oh, btw, remind us how dimocommies dont want our guns.
Oh.. I`m personal friends with heart surgeons in Rome and Madrid, cancer specialists in Berlin, general practitioners in Milan, Copenhagen, Newcastle. I have relatives in Scandinavia that have gone in and out of hospitals, and their system, so I know a lot more then what just CNN says.
I also have an degrees in Economics and Hospital Admin.
And how many tens of thousands of Americans dies each year, because of lack of healthcare, get rejected for life saving treatments due to insurance, don´t go to the doctor soon enough or can't afford their medications?
35-45.000 Americans each year...
jaguartx, I think you swore the Hypocritical oath.. instead of the Hippocratic oath.
Oh, btw, remind us how dimocommies dont want our guns.
Oh.. I`m personal friends with heart surgeons in Rome and Madrid, cancer specialists in Berlin, general practitioners in Milan, Copenhagen, Newcastle. I have relatives in Scandinavia that have gone in and out of hospitals, and their system, so I know a lot more then what just CNN says.
I also have an degrees in Economics and Hospital Admin.
They need you overseas much more than we need you. If it's so God-awful here...move.
The ACA is the most corrupt abomination ever foisted on the country and the Democrats own it. It was a collective clusterphuk that gave so little to so few while stealing so much from so many. It deserves a quick merciful death.
I hear all this stuff about how great Euro medicine is.
But, why do those folks come here for surgery.
When I had rotator cuff surg in New Orleans, a German othro surgeon flew to NO for his shoulder surgery, brought his ortho resident daughter to observe the surgeries my doctor performed that day. He's nationally and internationally known, lectures all over the world.
Now, if that German ortho surgeon thought he could get this quality of care in Germany, don't think he'd have gone to the trouble and expsnse to fly to New Orleans.
We have the VAH and are trying to fix it. If you like the old VA, you'll love socialized, govt run medicne. I don't know if it can really be fixed.
I used to see poor patients from 200 miles away, dx glaucoma, put them on meds and recheck them in 2 weeks, do an optic nerve laser scan, visual field to evaluate vision loss and corneal thickness and if the meds were working.
Now the govt wants me to find the problem, send pt home and rechk in two wedks and do an ootic nerve scan, send pt home and rechk in 2 weeks for a vision field test, send home (200 miles away) and rechk in 2 weeks for corneal exam ($16 charge) and send home and rechk in 2 wks and tell pt the dx and put pt on meds and rechk in 2 wks to see if meds are working. 5 trips instead of 2. The total pt charges are the same but at a $80 cost to the clinic for each exam the dr makes lesd from the testing and dx and tc and rechk than what he is paid by mcare you dumbass.
But you keep telling me how it really is, you stupid lying pos.
I get paid $19 by mcare for a freaking $200 test on a $30,000 instrument a tech has to administer. The renumeration isnt worth the time the tech spends doing the testing.
When I had rotator cuff surg in New Orleans, a German othro surgeon flew to NO for his shoulder surgery, brought his ortho resident daughter to observe the surgeries my doctor performed that day. He's nationally and internationally known, lectures all over the world.
Now, if that German ortho surgeon thought he could get this quality of care in Germany, don't think he'd have gone to the trouble and expsnse to fly to New Orleans.
And why do hundreds of thousands of Americans travel each year to other countries to have surgeries performed?
I used to see poor patients from 200 miles away, dx glaucoma, put them on meds and recheck them in 2 weeks, do an optic nerve laser scan, visual field to evaluate vision loss and corneal thickness and if the meds were working.
Now the govt wants me to find the problem, send pt home and rechk in two wedks and do an ootic nerve scan, send pt home and rechk in 2 weeks for a vision field test, send home (200 miles away) and rechk in 2 weeks for corneal exam ($16 charge) and send home and rechk in 2 wks and tell pt the dx and put pt on meds and rechk in 2 wks to see if meds are working. 5 trips instead of 2. The total pt charges are the same but at a $80 cost to the clinic for each exam the dr makes lesd from the testing and dx and tc and rechk than what he is paid by mcare you dumbass.
But you keep telling me how it really is, you stupid lying pos.
Blame the Republicans... they put what 70+ amendments into the bill that made everything worse and less effective. Then blame the Republicans that would not implement it in their states. Then blame the Republicans that for 7 years tried to kill it, defund it, criticize it whenever they could. Then blame the Republicans that for 7 years did not have a single plan of how to fix the system after they voted to kill it.. Then blame the Republicans that STILL HAVE NO PLAN!
The Dems should just have shoved it through without a single Republican amendment. THEN YOU COULD COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DEMS.... now its the Republicans mess...
You blame the Rs for lower taxes, higher employment, less NK missiles fired, less unemployment claims, repatrioting jobs from NAFTA, ....
You are truly too stupid to argue with.
And... STILL NO PLAN FOR THE HEALTCARE OF 325 MILLION AMERICANS... Even after 8 years of trying to kill their own best plan, Romney Care.
Republicans.. waisting 1 $Trillion and killing 50.000 Americans each year, because of principal.... (No actually its lobbyist money )
Don't forget the tax cut that adds $1.5 trillion to the debt, courtesy of the Republicans bought and paid for by the Koch brothers, et al. Party of Fiscal Responsibilty right there.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Then emigrate already!!!!
So you are fine with the fact that 7% of the US GDP is flushed down the drain each year, because you dont belive in Government run healthcare. Even if its a proven fact, all over the world to be a superior model.
Aah.. the fiscal responsible party... Hahaha..
You sack of horse [bleep]...I would have died in most European countries and Canada before my cancer got treated. Here with pre-Obamacare insurance I was on the table and under a daVinci machine's knives less than a week after I was diagnosed. I hope you move somewhere with their "superior" system and develop cancer. You'll learn a hard lesson, and we'll be rid of you.
They'll find a way to weasel it into something else, not take a firm stand. Like Roberts did with Obamacare.
Globalists and socialists seem to find common ground, and at our expense. We pay their tab. Their interest is always over that of the people, but of course, in the name of the people.
Big ole game. We are expected to remain spectators, grin and like it. The Tea Party and now Trump are saying, not so fast. We WILL be heard... And we DON'T like it..
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Odd government run healthcare is universally hated in those "1st world nations"! Why do you think the government has any constitutional role in healthcare anyway?
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Odd government run healthcare is universally hated in those "1st world nations"! Why do you think the government has any constitutional role in healthcare anyway?
Better outcome? Is this documented or a talking point?
You blame the Rs for lower taxes, higher employment, less NK missiles fired, less unemployment claims, repatrioting jobs from NAFTA, ....
You are truly too stupid to argue with.
And... STILL NO PLAN FOR THE HEALTCARE OF 325 MILLION AMERICANS... Even after 8 years of trying to kill their own best plan, Romney Care.
Republicans.. waisting 1 $Trillion and killing 50.000 Americans each year, because of principal.... (No actually its lobbyist money )
No plan are you sure about that? If the ACA is so great why is the cheapest plan $800. a month and $6000. for a deductible? I do think you may just be a blithering idiot!
You blame the Rs for lower taxes, higher employment, less NK missiles fired, less unemployment claims, repatrioting jobs from NAFTA, ....
You are truly too stupid to argue with.
And... STILL NO PLAN FOR THE HEALTCARE OF 325 MILLION AMERICANS... Even after 8 years of trying to kill their own best plan, Romney Care.
Republicans.. waisting 1 $Trillion and killing 50.000 Americans each year, because of principal.... (No actually its lobbyist money )
No plan are you sure about that? If the ACA is so great why is the cheapest plan $800. a month and $6000. for a deductible? I do think you may just be a blithering idiot!
Because the Republicans ruined it...
Blame the Republicans... they put what 70+ amendments into the bill that made everything worse and less effective. Then blame the Republicans that would not implement it in their states. Then blame the Republicans that for 7 years tried to kill it, defund it, criticize it whenever they could. Then blame the Republicans that for 7 years did not have a single plan of how to fix the system after they voted to kill it.. Then blame the Republicans that STILL HAVE NO PLAN!
The Dems should just have shoved it through without a single Republican amendment. THEN YOU COULD COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DEMS.... now its the Republicans mess...
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Odd government run healthcare is universally hated in those "1st world nations"! Why do you think the government has any constitutional role in healthcare anyway?
Hahaha... get out of Texas will you. People from other 1st world Nations LOVE their healthcare systems! They cover everybody for any eventuality for close to 1/2 the cost compared to the US system. A system that leaves tens of thousands dead each year for easily preventable diseases and bankrupts hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.. As well as waisting 7% of the US GDP each year...
I see the HUGE economical benefits of having a governmental run healthcare. Atleast 1 $ Trillion saved each year in waste. 50.000 fewer dead Americans each year NO medical bankruptcy anymore. Lower costs of drugs for everybody. People less dependent on their employer for health insurance. Increased economical benefits from people starting their own companies without having to worry for their or their families health. Increased number of people that goes to a doctor to catch easily preventable diseases long before they become chronic or fatal.
[ Then blame the Republicans that STILL HAVE NO PLAN!
And you're missing the point (on purpose, of course) that the freaking gov't should STAY THE HELL OUTTA healthcare - PERIOD!!
But nooooo, you freaking libbies just GOTTA have gov't into every freaking thing so as to CONTROL every freaking thing.....because ya just LOVE LOVE LOVE all that freaking socialism...
Ya dickwad.... EFF you and every other freaking socialist in this country..
I am trying to learn more on this and read both sides of this argument with an open mind and without labels or name calling.
What I come away with ....in simplest terms... is that for government to run health care means an added cost of associated red tape and layers of beaurocrats, delays, and approvals. Somethign that has already hamstrung the industry and effected inusrance costs. It also seems people use the term health care but are really speaking of health insurance. Seems rather convenient and disingenuous.
My main fear is that the government, even with best intentions, will end up doing to health care what they did to the home lending industry. Make feel good decisions with no basis in math\reality and when the industry collapses through their meddling, come in to say 'we' have to run it since private industry can't.
The other cost not mentioned is the caring for non-citizens who don't pay taxes nor insurance. Fair question- what is that cost yearly?
Wouldn't single payer invite more of this- and if so, was that the plan all along?
I am trying to learn more on this and read both sides of this argument with an open mind and without labels or name calling.
What I come away with ....in simplest terms... is that for government to run health care means an added cost of associated red tape and layers of beaurocrats, delays, and approvals. Somethign that has already hamstrung the industry and effected inusrance costs. It also seems people use the term health care but are really speaking of health insurance. Seems rather convenient and disingenuous.
My main fear is that the government, even with best intentions, will end up doing to health care what they did to the home lending industry. Make feel good decisions with no basis in math\reality and when the industry collapses through their meddling, come in to say 'we' have to run it since private industry can't.
The other cost not mentioned is the caring for non-citizens who don't pay taxes nor insurance. Fair question- what is that cost yearly?
Wouldn't single payer invite more of this- and if so, was that the plan all along?
It will probably end up with Medicare for all... It polls in the 65-70%. Most Americans are terrified of the current system... and most younger people, who has access to more information and understands it, compared to the old farts on this forum, knows that all other 1st world nation has their own "Medicare for all", and it works MUCH better then the current US system, and way way better then any Republican plan. Which is NO PLAN.
If the US spends 18% of GDP on healthcare now, while others pay 9-11%... I dont see how the government could ruin it any more. Republicans will try though... Just pick one of the 30+ different Government run healthcare plans around the world and implement it, OR just increase Medicare to cover all Americans. Cost will plummet... and coverage will increase.
Other nations can't AFFORD TO WASTE 7% of their GPD, like the US does, so all parties work together to keep their National Healthcare systems, because its cheaper AND BETTER.
Tens of thousands of Canadians come to the US for healthcare because they don’t want to wait three years to see their Dr
And tens of thousands of Americans goes to Canada just to purchase medicine...
Which has nothing to do with government run healthcare and everything to do with the legal system my glib friend.
Canada went to the Pharma companies and asked how to lower the cost of prescription drugs. R&D, manufacturing, Pharma, and yes, a certain amount of profit is the same be the Rx found in Canada or the US. The difference is, all meds have some side effects, and with those side effects come legal liability and that means lawsuits and judgements.
All Pharma has a team that estimates the potential cost of the liability, and that gets built into the price. The more side effects, the higher the price. Canada limits the liability to pharm, and the savings is passed on.
Try that here. You Lefties have most of the trail lawyers. Go ahead, just try it here.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Odd government run healthcare is universally hated in those "1st world nations"! Why do you think the government has any constitutional role in healthcare anyway?
Hahaha... get out of Texas will you. People from other 1st world Nations LOVE their healthcare systems! They cover everybody for any eventuality for close to 1/2 the cost compared to the US system. A system that leaves tens of thousands dead each year for easily preventable diseases and bankrupts hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.. As well as waisting 7% of the US GDP each year...
I see the HUGE economical benefits of having a governmental run healthcare. Atleast 1 $ Trillion saved each year in waste. 50.000 fewer dead Americans each year NO medical bankruptcy anymore. Lower costs of drugs for everybody. People less dependent on their employer for health insurance. Increased economical benefits from people starting their own companies without having to worry for their or their families health. Increased number of people that goes to a doctor to catch easily preventable diseases long before they become chronic or fatal.
If socialized medicine is so wonderful, efficient, effective, and loved in other countries why is it that so many foreign medical professionals move to the USA to practice instead of those countries with socialized medicine?
What are the tax rates in countries with "successful" government run and paid for socialized health care?
Why were so many insurance providers that initially participated in Obamacare jumping ship long before the last presidential election?
If socialized medicine is so wonderful, efficient, effective, and loved in other countries why is it that so many foreign medical professionals move to the USA to practice instead of those countries with socialized medicine?
What are the tax rates in countries with "successful" government run and paid for socialized health care?
Why were so many insurance providers that initially participated in Obamacare jumping ship long before the last presidential election?
How many medical professionals move to the US each year? How many US medical professionals move to other countries each year?
Most of their health professionals have NO student loans after their education and they can make more in the US. US medical professions move because they have a much better work/life balance in other nations... but are often saddled with huge student loans.
Overall taxes are not interesting. What is interesting is only 9-11% of their GDP is spent on Healthcare. Taxes range from 30-50%.. while much higher salaried people pay somewhat more. Depending on the country. US spends 18% of its GDP.
Insurance providers eventually jumping ship after Republicans put 70+ amendments that hurt the affordable care act from the start, then spent 7+ years to dismantle it bit by bit. What started out as the best plan the Republican had, Romney Care... was ruined by Republicans by making it to complex and inefficient to work like they themselves where advocating just a year or two before it was implemented.
Government run Healthcare is what has driven the cost of healthcare and associated insurance premiums thought the roof. Yes, folks, we already have government run healthcare. It's called Medicare and Medicaid. It covers the old and impoverished young. The taxpayers between he 2 groups support it. The one HUGE factor in skyrocketing healthcare costs is that the reimbursement rate on virtually every Medicare/Medicaid covered procedure covers only about 80% of the cost to deliver that care.
Bluntly, Medicare loses 20% on every procedure, and that loss must be shifted somewhere to keep the doors open. It is shifted over to paying consumers, which largely is the insured. Convert this system to complete government control, and what happens? It won't get better. You will have an entire system running a deficit. That will call for cost reduction beyond what have been taken. That means reduced services, rationing, long waits. That means the best and the brightest most talented will not gravitate toward healthcare because their talents are better reimbursed elsewhere. In spite of what some arrogant Lefties think, not just any dimwit can hack med school, and then there are the sharpest that are the innovators that advance medicine. You will not get those minds in the field.
You blame the Rs for lower taxes, higher employment, less NK missiles fired, less unemployment claims, repatrioting jobs from NAFTA, ....
You are truly too stupid to argue with.
And... STILL NO PLAN FOR THE HEALTCARE OF 325 MILLION AMERICANS... Even after 8 years of trying to kill their own best plan, Romney Care.
Republicans.. waisting 1 $Trillion and killing 50.000 Americans each year, because of principal.... (No actually its lobbyist money )
We're all going to die, dumbass, government program or not.
I have a plan. I'll take care of my family's healthcare needs, and you take care of yours. Since you are hellbent on communism, why not move to a communist nation instead of wanting to [bleep] this one up?
Government run Healthcare is what has driven the cost of healthcare and associated insurance premiums thought the roof. Yes, folks, we already have government run healthcare. It's called Medicare and Medicaid. It covers the old and impoverished young. The taxpayers between he 2 groups support it. The one HUGE factor in skyrocketing healthcare costs is that the reimbursement rate on virtually every Medicare/Medicaid covered procedure covers only about 80% of the cost to deliver that care.
Bluntly, Medicare loses 20% on every procedure, and that loss must be shifted somewhere to keep the doors open. It is shifted over to paying consumers, which largely is the insured. Convert this system to complete government control, and what happens? It won't get better. You will have an entire system running a deficit. That will call for cost reduction beyond what have been taken. That means reduced services, rationing, long waits. That means the best and the brightest most talented will not gravitate toward healthcare because their talents are better reimbursed elsewhere. In spite of what some arrogant Lefties think, not just any dimwit can hack med school, and then there are the sharpest that are the innovators that advance medicine. You will not get those minds in the field.
Close family member signed up for Obamacare coverage right after it became available. First few months it seemed to be working fairly well although they had no medical issues or expenses of any consequence during that period -- routine exam with basic blood work and a couple of relatively inexpensive pharmaceutical prescriptions.
Got a letter from their provider at the start of the second year stating their monthly premiums would increase $120+ a month due to a household income increase. That income increase was the annual SS C.O.L.A. adjustment which amounted to $40 a month more - TOTAL - for both recipient and spouse ($20 a month per)....
A $40 a month raise in household income rates a $120+ a month increase in Obamacare premiums???
A few months later that provider just up and quit Obamacare in their state.
Next provider was through some no name company that wanted a minimum of 3 months premiums up front, furnished no printed detailed coverage literature ( "call us and we'll get back with you as to whether yea or nay" ), every customer support person talked with had a different version than the last, and started raising rates almost immediately after signing on.
Totally disgusted with Obamacare they just gave up and went without health coverage until reaching Medicare age.
Obamacare from day one was like watching a bunch of monkeys trying to screw a football.
Hahaha... get out of Texas will you. People from other 1st world Nations LOVE their healthcare systems! They cover everybody for any eventuality for close to 1/2 the cost compared to the US system. A system that leaves tens of thousands dead each year for easily preventable diseases and bankrupts hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.. As well as waisting 7% of the US GDP each year... I see the HUGE economical benefits of having a governmental run healthcare. Atleast 1 $ Trillion saved each year in waste. 50.000 fewer dead Americans each year NO medical bankruptcy anymore. Lower costs of drugs for everybody. People less dependent on their employer for health insurance. Increased economical benefits from people starting their own companies without having to worry for their or their families health. Increased number of people that goes to a doctor to catch easily preventable diseases long before they become chronic or fatal.
Sounds good to me IF it works. If it doesn't, it will be impossible to get rid of. That was the plan with social security. It is part of the plan to get to total government control. As it is now total panic sets in when social security or food stamps are threatened. Remember when Walmart got all upset about food stamps being considered for cuts.
" knows" that all other 1st world nation has their own "Medicare for all", and it works MUCH better then the current US system
Works great if you dont die before you get worked on. Typical commie chit. dave
Healthy Canadians boast of their healthcare system, right up to the point they actually NEED it. Fact. The well-to-do ones, I see them in the US when they've tired of waiting, paying out of pocket. Total knee? MRI 6mo's, see surgeon sometime, be 12mo's wait before it's over. Need chemo? Hold one while we check... keep holding please... are you still there?. Here? If it's truly important, it'll get done this week, next at the latest. Elective? 4 weeks. And this is in rural America, not even the big city.
England, the system is so shoddy, they try to cheekily change the subject.
While was a family doctor in the US army in Germany, had a ball dealing with the host nation medical system, and it was NOT what I'd expected. They're German's, they've got to have the latest and greatest, right? Turns out, their orthopedics is about 10-20yrs behind ours, for example. Half a dozen times, would get a soldier back from the German hospital, and puzzled by the butchered appearance I'd call a US orthopedist for clarity. "Yeah, it's not wrong per se, but it'll take 10-12 weeks to heal, lose mobility; it's a 2nd or 3rd world technique now, I haven't see one of those in 10 years. He could have better function long-term and already be in rehab in half that time if we'd have done a such such, instead." Over and over.
General surgery, almost as bad, not quite. Turns out for some odd cultural reason, general surgery is looked down upon there, and it shows. Went to a hospital once to inquire in-person why soldier so n so was still inpatient weeks after a clusterphluck of a simple cholecystectomy. They did it open instead of laparoscopic, no valid reason, no valid endpoints, just milking the US taxpayer for all it was worth, basically. Saw that a lot, too. The surgeon, found the smoking pony-tailed ill kept guy in a filthy office, doing nothing in a filthy wing that looked like an abandoned college chemistry building (labs and such, empty, boxes of [bleep] everywhere.) Never before saw such professional sloth.
Grade A chit, that socialized healthcare.
Here, medicare and Medicaid - GMAFB. Medicaid can't give money away fast enough (brand-name Ventolin for everybody, here, take three!). Meanwhile, have a go with Medicare cutting little old people off their oxygen. No rational reason, other than they want to waste everybody's time fighting it, which in the private sector means money, and in the mean time some poor guy with pulmonary asbestosis struggles along without his oxygen on top of his chronic hip pain and recently broken humerus; his incurable anemia helps his breathing none all the while. UFB. I'll vote for more of THAT, eh?
The single best thing that could happen to present healthcare in the US, is to flush zero-care and it's mandates straight down the crapper, and start over with healthy priorities. Would also propose a parallel socialist utopian plan that lefties are hereby encouraged to sign up for, to serve as an example for people to learn from in perpetuity. Put your money where you mouth is - you'll be digging a tunnel over to our side in no time (presuming you didn't exempt yourselves from it at the get-go.)
Government run Healthcare is what has driven the cost of healthcare and associated insurance premiums thought the roof. Yes, folks, we already have government run healthcare. It's called Medicare and Medicaid. It covers the old and impoverished young. The taxpayers between he 2 groups support it. The one HUGE factor in skyrocketing healthcare costs is that the reimbursement rate on virtually every Medicare/Medicaid covered procedure covers only about 80% of the cost to deliver that care.
Bluntly, Medicare loses 20% on every procedure, and that loss must be shifted somewhere to keep the doors open. It is shifted over to paying consumers, which largely is the insured. Convert this system to complete government control, and what happens? It won't get better. You will have an entire system running a deficit. That will call for cost reduction beyond what have been taken. That means reduced services, rationing, long waits. That means the best and the brightest most talented will not gravitate toward healthcare because their talents are better reimbursed elsewhere. In spite of what some arrogant Lefties think, not just any dimwit can hack med school, and then there are the sharpest that are the innovators that advance medicine. You will not get those minds in the field.
What's best for the collective is never best for the individual.
So, go collectivism and pay the price.
Or, respect and actually serve the individual, placing individual importance over the aspirations of the collective.
Collectivism is never best. Just an effective tool to control the unwashed masses who don't know enough to make their own decisions.
That's the elite, self-righteous mantra of the libs. They're smart, everyone else is stupid. They're there to help. We need them.... Biggest lie ever. They need us to be compliant and keep on paying the tab, letting them spend our money.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Odd government run healthcare is universally hated in those "1st world nations"! Why do you think the government has any constitutional role in healthcare anyway?
Hahaha... get out of Texas will you. People from other 1st world Nations LOVE their healthcare systems! They cover everybody for any eventuality for close to 1/2 the cost compared to the US system. A system that leaves tens of thousands dead each year for easily preventable diseases and bankrupts hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.. As well as waisting 7% of the US GDP each year...
I see the HUGE economical benefits of having a governmental run healthcare. Atleast 1 $ Trillion saved each year in waste. 50.000 fewer dead Americans each year NO medical bankruptcy anymore. Lower costs of drugs for everybody. People less dependent on their employer for health insurance. Increased economical benefits from people starting their own companies without having to worry for their or their families health. Increased number of people that goes to a doctor to catch easily preventable diseases long before they become chronic or fatal.
So do you consider Canada a first world nation? I know several Canadians that used to come here for their healthcare simply because if they waited for the care they needed they would be dead by then. On top of that it is almost impossible to get a transplant of any sort not to mention the poor quality of the 30 something year old doctors they have there. Beyond that Trump is working on forcing the pill companies to charge us the same as they do other countries for prescription drugs. Your other delusional BS is all wrong, I wish you leftist dupes would actually research before you run your mouths. You look soooo stupid.
So you believe the government bureaucracy could provide superior care and more efficiently than the private sector.LOL
Since all other 1st world nations does it, and have better outcomes then the US system. Yes. They also save 6-7% of their GDP compared to the US system.
Odd government run healthcare is universally hated in those "1st world nations"! Why do you think the government has any constitutional role in healthcare anyway?
Hahaha... get out of Texas will you. People from other 1st world Nations LOVE their healthcare systems! They cover everybody for any eventuality for close to 1/2 the cost compared to the US system. A system that leaves tens of thousands dead each year for easily preventable diseases and bankrupts hundreds of thousands of Americans each year.. As well as waisting 7% of the US GDP each year...
I see the HUGE economical benefits of having a governmental run healthcare. Atleast 1 $ Trillion saved each year in waste. 50.000 fewer dead Americans each year NO medical bankruptcy anymore. Lower costs of drugs for everybody. People less dependent on their employer for health insurance. Increased economical benefits from people starting their own companies without having to worry for their or their families health. Increased number of people that goes to a doctor to catch easily preventable diseases long before they become chronic or fatal.
So do you consider Canada a first world nation? I know several Canadians that used to come here for their healthcare simply because if they waited for the care they needed they would be dead by then. On top of that it is almost impossible to get a transplant of any sort not to mention the poor quality of the 30 something year old doctors they have there. Beyond that Trump is working on forcing the pill companies to charge us the same as they do other countries for prescription drugs. Your other delusional BS is all wrong, I wish you leftist dupes would actually research before you run your mouths. You look soooo stupid.
That makes it sound like they just don't know what they're talking about. They know perfectly well what they are talking about. They are purposely lying to pursue a leftist agenda.
Who pays for universal healthcare for 300+ million Americans? Comparing uk healthcare to the us is ridiculous. Does the uk have 30 million illegals immigrants? Does the uk have an entire class of generationally welfare addicted people? I’m not willing to take home less so do nothings can have more.
A year ago, a surgeon from Canada came to our area to explain in great detail why he left their allegedly GREAT healthcare system. His 35 years as chief surgeon at a major Canadian hospital was a nightmare. So he's dedicating the rest of his life educating us here in the good ole USA about the dangers of socialist medicine.
And as an aside, I have a friend in eastern Ontario who went in to have a leg pain treated. For weeks she put up with a lot of pain.. Took them wonderful Canadian docs six MONTHS to find out she had a broken leg!
Yeah, Northnuts, let's bring on that wunnerful socialist bullchit..
Who pays for universal healthcare for 300+ million Americans? Comparing uk healthcare to the us is ridiculous. Does the uk have 30 million illegals immigrants? Does the uk have an entire class of generationally welfare addicted people? I’m not willing to take home less so do nothings can have more.
first off, not saying I am for universal care......but the illegals can get care......the welfare crowd can get care...paid by those with a job and their taxes....like mine.
where would the money come from?....how about we stop giving billions away to other countries.....that would fund an awful lot.
its going to go universal sooner or later.....the repubs, should get out in front of this......pull their heads out of there asses...come up with a plan where the health care field is payed generously....doctors..nurses...ect ...get rid of frivolous lawsuits...etc
if they could pull that off....they would be in power for quite awhile...….not saying that is the way to go ….just another angle.....bob
" knows" that all other 1st world nation has their own "Medicare for all", and it works MUCH better then the current US system
Works great if you dont die before you get worked on. Typical commie chit. dave
Healthy Canadians boast of their healthcare system, right up to the point they actually NEED it. Fact. The well-to-do ones, I see them in the US when they've tired of waiting, paying out of pocket. Total knee? MRI 6mo's, see surgeon sometime, be 12mo's wait before it's over. Need chemo? Hold one while we check... keep holding please... are you still there?. Here? If it's truly important, it'll get done this week, next at the latest. Elective? 4 weeks. And this is in rural America, not even the big city.
)
Originally Posted by Redneck
A year ago, a surgeon from Canada came to our area to explain in great detail why he left their allegedly GREAT healthcare system. His 35 years as chief surgeon at a major Canadian hospital was a nightmare. So he's dedicating the rest of his life educating us here in the good ole USA about the dangers of socialist medicine.
And as an aside, I have a friend in eastern Ontario who went in to have a leg pain treated. For weeks she put up with a lot of pain.. Took them wonderful Canadian docs six MONTHS to find out she had a broken leg!
Yeah, Northnuts, let's bring on that wunnerful socialist bullchit..
There are two major Heath Care facilities here in Northern MN.
If ya wanna know how great the Canadian Socialized Medicine works, just take a walk/drive through the hospital parking lots.
They are flooded with vehicles with Ontario Plates. Why would that be? Visiting sick US relatives? Hardly.
Then on their way back to Ontario, many will stop at Sam's Club and the Liquor stores. Don't know if they pay duty on all that booze or not, but when I was in college my room mate from Ontario would have a dedicated 5 gal gas can in his vehicle. He would buy 5 gallons of Vodka in the US, pour it into his special gas can every time he went home to visit and bring back the empty can.
How about if you can afford insurance for YOURSELF great, if you can't you don't get any. The rats need incentive to stop breeding. How everyone somehow feels this in an inalienable right is beyond me.
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