I found a pretty Interesting Article at Free Republic this morning. Considering that several democratic candidates are finally saying what they're all thinking regarding gun control/confiscation, I'm thinking we as a nation may have to answer this very question much sooner than most of us thought. Beto O'Rourke is talking bans and confiscation and Booker wants all gun owners licensed and all firearms registered. I think most conservatives recognize that the end goal of the left is prohibition and confiscation, (at least for honest law abiding people) but the liberals and democrats have been working at it incrementally while denying their true goal. If I post something like this I usually go to the original article, but some of the comments and replies posted by fellow Freepers are as interesting as the main article. 7mm
When she got the "assault weapons" ban that Clinton wanted and signed, Sen. (D)Diane Feinstein said on 60 Minutes, 1993 "I wish we could have banned them all [all firearms]. Turn them in Mr. and Mrs. America, or we'll come get them."
The communistnazis (AKA Democrats) have been seeking and working for banning and confiscating all guns since JFK was murdered.
Most police are on a little power trip. If you notice most have the shaved head look as it kind of sets them apart from the rest of us. Not counting the bald guys. Lol. I think they will because some already have. Edk
Most police are on a little power trip. If you notice most have the shaved head look as it kind of sets them apart from the rest of us. Not counting the bald guys. Lol. I think they will because some already have. Edk
Many LEO's are prior military service, and brought the haircut with them
I would like to think the cops would do the right thing. But I don't.
The military? Well, like the cops, there will be many good ones...
I think in these conversations everyone pictures a clean clear decision point.
A law is passed, the troops are formed, decisions made.
Not gonna happen. Long hard fight to pass the law, gun owners get entrenched. Press interviews a bunch of wannabe commandos. Bravado and bragging. Police are challenged to "come and get some".
Maybe the gun owners somewhere make a first move of some sort, bunch of blue uniforms get holes.
The press spins and twists...
Now, it's not about kicking old Pete's door in and taking his 30-30.
It's terrorism, Anarchy, Insurrection, Murder on a large scale of police and/or military personnel.
Everyone in the military is also trained to understand what a lawful order is and what is not and that they have an obligation to question it. The "just following orders" is not a defense that has been accepted since WW-II and they know they are individually accountable.
Any orders to confiscate will be not be something the government can get through that wicket. Even if the communist/dems get the executive and the legislative branches, the judicial branch will find confiscation unconstitutional. I expect we will very soon here find Red Flags laws at the supreme level. The right case of lack of due process just needs to come up the chain.
Some will, some won't. Even if most won't there will be plenty enough who will. Governments have never had trouble finding those among its minions who will obey orders no matter what they are.
Herod's soldiers killed all male babies under two and that was done by stabbing a baby to death with a sword. Wonder how the officers spun that one to the average trooper?
All you teenage and early 20 something soldaten, line up those naked teenage girls along that ditch and shoot them, they're untermensche Jews and Russians. Jawohl!
Busting in a door to arrest and kill at the slightest excuse a white nationalist terrorist is nothing...
Everyone in the military is also trained to understand what a lawful order is and what is not and that they have an obligation to question it. The "just following orders" is not a defense that has been accepted since WW-II and they know they are individually accountable.
Any orders to confiscate will be not be something the government can get through that wicket. Even if the communist/dems get the executive and the legislative branches, the judicial branch will find confiscation unconstitutional. I expect we will very soon here find Red Flags laws at the supreme level. The right case of lack of due process just needs to come up the chain.
They will be fed the propaganda that they are dealing with domestic terrorists, and most will follow orders accordingly.
Truth is the first casualty of war.
Remember how Harry Reid called those Nevada ranchers "Domestic Terrorists"...?
I seriously doubt there will be legislation passed that says “ everybody turn in your guns now ! “
It’s incremental, you know “common sense “ gun control
1st ban the assault weapons, it’s been done before by a Democrat, and many mass shootings since then
2nd keep guns away from crazies, how by reporting “suspicious” behavior by gun owners aka red flag laws, such as when your ex wife or pissed off neighbor makes up some bullchit you’ve said and believes you’re a danger to the community.
3rd while the assault weapons ban has helped we need more, who knew you could kill or maim so many w a shotgun? Get rid os semi auto and maybe pump shotguns
4 limit capacity of mags first to ten and later on to 5
They don’t plan on throwing a live frog into a hot skillet, they plan on killing it by boiling the frog slowly
Some will, some won't. Even if most won't there will be plenty enough who will. Governments have never had trouble finding those among its minions who will obey orders no matter what they are.
Herod's soldiers killed all male babies under two and that was done by stabbing a baby to death with a sword. Wonder how the officers spun that one to the average trooper?
All you teenage and early 20 something soldaten, line up those naked teenage girls along that ditch and shoot them, they're untermensche Jews and Russians. Jawohl!
Busting in a door to arrest and kill at the slightest excuse a white nationalist terrorist is nothing...
Failure to follow those orders back then had immediate and fatal consequences. It's a little different today.
So, as long as no one is threatened with immediate death or a life sentence to a concentration camp, 100% of all LEO and soldiers will absolutely refuse to follow orders to confiscate anyone's firearms?
Don’t worry. They will only raid homes for guns belonging to dangerous felons, so no one will feel sorry for them. Of course the felony will be from a gun charge, ie., for not turning in illegal killer weapons of war. But you will only hear that they were felons.
I would like to think the cops would do the right thing. But I don't.
The military? Well, like the cops, there will be many good ones...
I think in these conversations everyone pictures a clean clear decision point.
A law is passed, the troops are formed, decisions made.
Not gonna happen. Long hard fight to pass the law, gun owners get entrenched. Press interviews a bunch of wannabe commandos. Bravado and bragging. Police are challenged to "come and get some".
Maybe the gun owners somewhere make a first move of some sort, bunch of blue uniforms get holes.
The press spins and twists...
Now, it's not about kicking old Pete's door in and taking his 30-30.
It's terrorism, Anarchy, Insurrection, Murder on a large scale of police and/or military personnel.
They will be fed the propaganda that they are dealing with domestic terrorists, and most will follow orders accordingly.
Truth is the first casualty of war.
Remember how Harry Reid called those Nevada ranchers "Domestic Terrorists"...?
Just like assuming union members are zombies who vote like the union says because they have no other information, the concept that the military members are going to do what ordered because of someone says it's legal doesn't hold water.
But, what do I know. I was just an officer for 20 years and have worked closely with the military for another 15.
I keep thinking of the DC Metro cops throwing WW2 vets out of the WW2 Memorial during Zero's government shutdown, cops standing around watching Antifa beating up conservatives, and FBI Agents watching Comey whitewash HiLIARy's crimes without a peep. Not picking on cops. I know several and I've got a lot of respect for what they sometimes gotta do. But no one wants to put years in at a job and then end up sacrificing the advancement and pension over principles. I'd say probably 70% or more will "just follow orders", at least until it becomes too dangerous. Military is a different item. I've been in the service. I believe our soldiers are a lot smarter than most civilians give them credit for. In my day it would have been unthinkable for most people. But the generation now making up our military grew up in a far different school system then we did. As some pointed out, it depends on what happens and how it's presented by the powers that be. But I don't see anyway that the military and most cops would stand by as Blue Helmets go door to door. If it happens, it's gonna be Americans disarming other Americans. Another thing on my mind is the fact that the folks wanting gun control ain't losing much sleep over gangsters and criminals. A disarmed population must rely on government for protection against criminal elements. One is much less likely to criticize the people whose job it is to keep your family safe. To say the least, we live in interesting times. 7mm
They will be fed the propaganda that they are dealing with domestic terrorists, and most will follow orders accordingly.
Truth is the first casualty of war.
Remember how Harry Reid called those Nevada ranchers "Domestic Terrorists"...?
Just like assuming union members are zombies who vote like the union says because they have no other information, the concept that the military members are going to do what ordered because of someone says it's legal doesn't hold water.
But, what do I know. I was just an officer for 20 years and have worked closely with the military for another 15.
Real life experience ? You can toss that chit out. 🤦🏼♂️😂
While there will be some "Blue Falcons" in the larger cities that may participate in confiscation, particularly when "targets of opportunity" arise during traffic stops or calls to a residence, the vast majority of this countries small agencies and Sheriffs Offices will not. I was large city LEO for 25yrs and now in a rural county criminal justice system for the last 15. There are NO worries up here. There are over 300 million guns and a trillion rounds of ammunition currently in the hands of law abiding citizens. As the saying goes, if we were the problem YOU WOULD KNOW IT !
"Patriotism" has 2 very different meanings now. There are two types of "patriots".
1) The patriot that is loyal without question to the government.
2) The patriot that is loyal without question to their country.
They are two very different things.
Many get them confused.
A true patriot would never be loyal to the state. I always laugh when some statist boot licker thinks they are a patriot. Americas original patriots were cop killing, bootlegging, tax evading Americans.
Libs are already painting select groups as terrorists. They'll define their aim a bit more and sway public opinion. Only bad guys will get their guns confiscated. Who's gonna be the bad guys is the question to be answered.
Any cop will do his best to put a bad guy away and take pride in it.
When you and your guns are locked up the neighbors will talk over the fences about how they didn't realize how dangerous you were.
They will be fed the propaganda that they are dealing with domestic terrorists, and most will follow orders accordingly.
Truth is the first casualty of war.
Remember how Harry Reid called those Nevada ranchers "Domestic Terrorists"...?
Just like assuming union members are zombies who vote like the union says because they have no other information, the concept that the military members are going to do what ordered because of someone says it's legal doesn't hold water.
But, what do I know. I was just an officer for 20 years and have worked closely with the military for another 15.
You aren't the only one that's taken an oath.
You do however need to realize that our country is changing, and that change has not been for the better.
Obama took great care to replace top military command with those that would follow his orders.
They will be fed the propaganda that they are dealing with domestic terrorists, and most will follow orders accordingly.
Truth is the first casualty of war.
Remember how Harry Reid called those Nevada ranchers "Domestic Terrorists"...?
Just like assuming union members are zombies who vote like the union says because they have no other information, the concept that the military members are going to do what ordered because of someone says it's legal doesn't hold water.
But, what do I know. I was just an officer for 20 years and have worked closely with the military for another 15.
Been saying this same thing every time one of these threads come up and it's always the same thing from the usual suspects. Your take is 100% spot on Pugs.
Libs are already painting select groups as terrorists. They'll define their aim a bit more and sway public opinion. Only bad guys will get their guns confiscated. Who's gonna be the bad guys is the question to be answered.
Any cop will do his best to put a bad guy away and take pride in it.
When you and your guns are locked up the neighbors will talk over the fences about how they didn't realize how dangerous you were.
Don’t forget the most dangerous of all, Constitutionalists. I remember watching one of those live action, documentary style, real cop shows where the cops were investigating a couple of people up in the hills, and were told to use extreme caution because they were rumored to be Constitutionalists. As a result, they went armed for bear.
You do however need to realize that our country is changing, and that change has not been for the better.
Obama took great care to replace top military command with those that would follow his orders.
Agreed but understand those flags are not the ones that are going to go out an do the dirty work. The military has its challenges but it is still the most professional and intelligent in the history of modern civilization. You will find very few at the tip of the spear that are liberal. Most of the libs in the service are those that are tails and not teeth. They are not going to be out doing that work and the teeth are going to tell them that.
The best thing to do is get the gun owners turning against each other, calling in Red Flags and the like. If we just get rid of such and such group, the rest of us can live in peace with our deer rifles and shotguns...Who needs a bump stock anyway? AR's aren't any good for hunting.
Some will turn them in when the law is signed. Next they'll freeze assets and children will be either picked up at school by CPS or they'll come to the home and remove them for their "safety" unless the guns are turned over.
The police and military who will not participate in the confiscations will be replaced by those who will. Despots have never lacked for enforcers.
Those final few who resist or retaliate will be deemed terrorists and the full weight of the machine will be brought to bear against them.
You do however need to realize that our country is changing, and that change has not been for the better.
Obama took great care to replace top military command with those that would follow his orders.
Agreed but understand those flags are not the ones that are going to go out an do the dirty work. The military has its challenges but it is still the most professional and intelligent in the history of modern civilization. You will find very few at the tip of the spear that are liberal. Most of the libs in the service are those that are tails and not teeth. They are not going to be out doing that work and the teeth are going to tell them that.
By the looks of it we'll be needing a pallot load of that stuff. lol
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
LOL...
"Patriotism" has 2 very different meanings now. There are two types of "patriots".
1) The patriot that is loyal without question to the government.
2) The patriot that is loyal without question to their country.
They are two very different things.
Many get them confused.
Ask them why they signed up, to serve their country or their government. All the military guys i've worked with and still work with didn't join to protect the government, we've had that conversation several times.
I was watching Fox News "The Five" (with my wife) within the last day or two, and Jesse Watters was pontificating to the group how the AR15 round is a very under powered round, unsuitable for hunting, and there are many more much more powerful rounds out there, fired from rifles that are not being targeted.
I'm sure Jesse was tying to defend AR15 owners, and mock the politicians who are trying to paint the AR15 .223 round as "heavy artillery," as did Bill O'reilly and little Marco Rubio, in reference to the AK47. Jesse is just another NYC city slicker talking head without a clue when it comes to fire arms. FOX really should send all their talking heads to an NRA classroom so that they can be educated on the proper talking points to rebut the democrats and drive by media.
Ask them why they signed up, to serve their country or their government. All the military guys i've worked with and still work with didn't join to protect the government, we've had that conversation several times.
"Why" they signed up has nothing to do with it.
What matters is what lies those in control will tell them to get their bidding done.
Don't say it's not been done before... The Intelligence community told us all that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
How many loyal, red blooded boys died over that lie?
Ask them why they signed up, to serve their country or their government. All the military guys i've worked with and still work with didn't join to protect the government, we've had that conversation several times.
"Why" they signed up has nothing to do with it.
What matters is what lies those in control will tell them to get their bidding done.
Don't say it's not been done before... The Intelligence community told us all that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
How many loyal, red blooded boys died over that lie?
What kind of argument is that? Take those same boys and tell them to go help confiscate firearms from their fellow citizens and see what happens.
Ask them why they signed up, to serve their country or their government. All the military guys i've worked with and still work with didn't join to protect the government, we've had that conversation several times.
"Why" they signed up has nothing to do with it.
What matters is what lies those in control will tell them to get their bidding done.
Don't say it's not been done before... The Intelligence community told us all that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
How many loyal, red blooded boys died over that lie?
What kind of argument is that? Take those same boys and tell them to go help confiscate firearms from their fellow citizens and see what happens.
You are not hearing what I'm saying...
They will be lied to.
They will be told that they are fighting "domestic terrorists" that will mean the end of our country if not stopped.
That has already happened.
We just passed another anniversary of Ruby Ridge...
Ask them why they signed up, to serve their country or their government. All the military guys i've worked with and still work with didn't join to protect the government, we've had that conversation several times.
"Why" they signed up has nothing to do with it.
What matters is what lies those in control will tell them to get their bidding done.
Don't say it's not been done before... The Intelligence community told us all that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
How many loyal, red blooded boys died over that lie?
What kind of argument is that? Take those same boys and tell them to go help confiscate firearms from their fellow citizens and see what happens.
You are not hearing what I'm saying...
They will be lied to.
They will be told that they are fighting "domestic terrorists" that will mean the end of our country if not stopped.
That has already happened.
We just passed another anniversary of Ruby Ridge...
I would really hope that all LEO's and military have at least the discernment to know they are being lied to when the goal is to confiscate all the guns in America owned by private citizens. They know what 2A is and means.
Wait until the somewhat anti-gun public is educated on the killing power and long range capabilities of a scoped bolt action deer rifle. I can hear it now "these weapons aren't necessary for hunting, they can easily shred a human heart at 500 yards".
I heard the same thing about San Francisco and some other big cities. Actually what I read said it was bad enough that some major Police Departments are lowering their hiring standards and actually recruiting among minorities and mid eastern immigrants. That kinda information doesn't do much for the confidence of a white conservative Christian military vet with a houseful of guns! Every body knows that guys like that are on the watch list, not the hood rats and jihadists! What the democrats and the leftist seem to be forgetting in their rush to disarm people, is that there were two separate revolutions began on this continent when government overreach attempted to disarm the people. Once in 1775, and again in Texas 60 years later. They may think that they can get away with it without major bloodshed. I think an awful lot of gun owners are getting fed up with government corruption and state interference in personal lives that aren't going to turn in something that was totally legal and fun just a couple weeks ago. True, it's happened in a few other countries, but many Americans realize we have the right, and many more of us grew up in the firearms culture. 7mm
I would really hope that all LEO's and military have at least the discernment to know they are being lied to when the goal is to confiscate all the guns in America owned by private citizens. They know what 2A is and means.
You'd think they would know who and what Antifa was too, when instructed not to interfere with them.
Or the race riots... BLM.
At what point do you NOT arrest the thugs burning police cars and throwing Molotov cocktails?
Ask them why they signed up, to serve their country or their government. All the military guys i've worked with and still work with didn't join to protect the government, we've had that conversation several times.
"Why" they signed up has nothing to do with it.
What matters is what lies those in control will tell them to get their bidding done.
Don't say it's not been done before... The Intelligence community told us all that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
How many loyal, red blooded boys died over that lie?
What kind of argument is that? Take those same boys and tell them to go help confiscate firearms from their fellow citizens and see what happens.
You are not hearing what I'm saying...
They will be lied to.
They will be told that they are fighting "domestic terrorists" that will mean the end of our country if not stopped.
That has already happened.
We just passed another anniversary of Ruby Ridge...
The village/town is full of VC/ISIS. Go in and kill them all......
And thats who they will use. The blue hats families don't live here. If it gets really nasty they will be concerned against reprisals again LEO houses. It will be a terrible time in our history. I dont see it happening that way. They will just make it so hard to own most will give it up. They will just keep Whittling away and demonizing gun owners. Brain washing the kids. A generation or two and they win by attrition not a shot fired.
Watch how China controls their population and you’ll see how the U.S. will eventually do it. China has their new “social credit” system that’s designed to blacklist people that don’t conform with state dictates but haven’t really done anything be locked up for. In the U.S. we have similar ways of screwing with people. Just label someone a child molester or drug dealer and they’re persona non grata no matter the details of the situation. Never mind that the child molester might be an 18 year old that was having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. I know a guy who’s 19 year old son got a dishonorable discharge from the Air Force because a 16 year old emailed him a tittie picture, he spent a year in jail and is now a felon/sex offender and unemployable. Try getting a decent job with a DUI on your record, it’s almost impossible.
They don’t need to knock down your door and take your guns, just isolate you and screw with you so you can’t live your life.
There are many veterans who believe in the constitution, but there are many others in law enforcement and military who have never been taught about such things as God given rights and personal responsibility. Much of our public school system has given up religion and teaching in order to indoctrinate children into accepting socialism and government supervision. We who believe in our rights and our oath to a constitutional republic are getting older and fewer every day. 7mm
Wait until the somewhat anti-gun public is educated on the killing power and long range capabilities of a scoped bolt action deer rifle. I can hear it now "these weapons aren't necessary for hunting, they can easily shred a human heart at 500 yards".
Easily. 800 yards takes a little more concentration.
Seven??? Did you learn to count in a public school?? Actually, I find it kind of tin foil worthy myself, but it's pretty hard to deny that the public in general, and conservatives in particular, are being played. I always thought the leftist and commies would wait a little while for us conservatives to die off before they launched the final assault. But current events and the democratic presidential candidates tell me they're getting impatient. Better to paint us as racist and bitter villains and force us to disarm so we can be silenced more easily. As the saying goes, "just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean nobody's out to get you"! 7mm
I would bet a lot of money that there are very few LEOs, Federal, State, and Local, and military members today, who have ever read the Constitution of the United States of America.
I'd also bet a lot of politicians today have never read it other than to perhaps skim a few lines.
So when the politicians tell them to "enforce" their gun confiscation laws, they'll mainly say, "Okay. Saddle up boys & girls. We're going after some incredibly dangerous and well armed criminals. Don't take any chances."
Just my opinion, based on my knowledge of Human Nature, history, and power mad politicians.
Anyone who thinks this could not happen should just go back a few pages and watch the video of what the cops and military did to honest gun owners in New Orleans after Katrina.
I haven’t read all the replies but in my opinion the military would be far less likely to go around confiscating legally owned firearms while I believe most cops would be happy to do the “dirty work”. They relish playing dress up and using their APC’s. Getting the chance to pop off a few hundred rounds at us “bad guys” only increases their willingness.
The FBI wants so badly to shoot citizens that they’ll create situations that virtually guarantee them the opportunity to shoot it out. Lavoy Finicum, Ruby Ridge, Waco, and countless less reported cases are all the proof we need.
The "some will, some won't" opinion makes me wonder - will one side take arms against the other? Will a LEO take a stand for the 2A, but only as far as frowning when his coworkers pillage the neighborhood?
The "some will, some won't" opinion makes me wonder - will one side take arms against the other? Will a LEO take a stand for the 2A, but only as far as frowning when his coworkers pillage the neighborhood?
I don’t see most cops doing anything more than frowning if they don’t take an active role in confiscation. They’ll still need to collect the King’s ransom so those that don’t want to be assigned the special detail will simply continue writing busted taillight and speeding tickets. Eventually they’ll feel left out because they won’t get the cool trucks and toys or the fame that the confiscation squad gets and they’ll volunteer so as to get those perks and privileges and not feel left out of the action.
The "some will, some won't" opinion makes me wonder - will one side take arms against the other? Will a LEO take a stand for the 2A, but only as far as frowning when his coworkers pillage the neighborhood?
What kind of argument is that? Take those same boys and tell them to go help confiscate firearms from their fellow citizens and see what happens.
They won't be identified as "fellow citizens." They will be told these are the very worst of the worst, white supremacist, domestic terrorists that they're going up against.
Pass the popcorn while the chicken littles get their panties in a bunch over nothing I'll have a little snack. Ever since GCA '68 and the 4473 form was brought into existance in response to the assassination of RFK the nattering nabobs of negativism have been running amok screaming about gun registration and confiscation. Neither of those have come to pass in the last 51 years, but shh don't anyone tell them that it'll spoil all their fun.
I would bet a lot of money that there are very few LEOs, Federal, State, and Local, and military members today, who have ever read the Constitution of the United States of America.
We have these hanging on a wall in our house. And yes, I have read them both. I figure if you are gonna swear to uphold and defend something, you better know what it is.
You bet your ass they'll come and they won't hesitate to kill you if you don't comply. Which is why I don't know why so many of the clowns on here are so gung ho in support of LE. Those fuggers are paid gov't thugs and your enemy just as sure as the sun rises in the East.
Not only will we not confiscate your guns, we won't have too. You will give them up piece by piece. Those guys who are willing to give up something that they don't personally care about (ar's, bumpstocks, MACHINE GUNS, etc.) are going to eventually cost everybody everything.
Those guys who are willing to give up something that they don't personally care about (ar's, bumpstocks, MACHINE GUNS, etc.) are going to eventually cost everybody everything.
This has all happened before. And quite sucessfully. A military stuffed full of recent immigrants, with no preconceived ideas,and with all manner of guarentees made them ad nauseum, to act as cannon fodder and do the bidding for the powers that be. There will be an abundance of those who will follow whatever orders they receive.
This has all happened before. And quite sucessfully. A military stuffed full of recent immigrants, with no preconceived ideas,and with all manner of guarentees made them ad nauseum, to act as cannon fodder and do the bidding for the powers that be. There will be an abundance of those who will follow whatever orders they receive.
I have never and will never give a crap about bill clinton. I f he got a blow job or not is of no concern to me. Maybe Trump screwed the porn star. I do not care. But the confiscation of guns is something to worry about because it has happened and will continue to happen. Most of you guys probably have enough guns to be considered a nut. That’s all the evidence required by law. Ed k
I have never and will never give a crap about bill clinton. I f he got a blow job or not is of no concern to me. Maybe Trump screwed the porn star. I do not care. But the confiscation of guns is something to worry about because it has happened and will continue to happen. Most of you guys probably have enough guns to be considered a nut. That’s all the evidence required by law. Ed k
Not going to happen in my lifetime but if by chance it did - guarantee that nobody would organise and do something about it . Couldn't find five people around here if i had to . It's just a matter of time . . . ..
Do not for one second fall into the trap believing that the military and LEO's are freedom loving folks, who cherish the SA rights, and will not allow a tyrant to confiscate our guns. Most are nothing but a bunch of dumbazz sheep who will follow right along with whatever the government tells them to do.
Do not for one second fall into the trap believing that the military and LEO's are freedom loving folks, who cherish the SA rights, and will not allow a tyrant to confiscate our guns. Most are nothing but a bunch of dumbazz sheep who will follow right along with whatever the government tells them to do.
yes. this is just another aspect of the continued growth in the mega-cities, and their views on the world in which they consider they control.
it's all about the numbers, and who votes, and what the voters believe.
if the federal gov't starts pointing toward lesser guns, then guess what.
Do not for one second fall into the trap believing that the military and LEO's are freedom loving folks, who cherish the SA rights, and will not allow a tyrant to confiscate our guns. Most are nothing but a bunch of dumbazz sheep who will follow right along with whatever the government tells them to do.
Cops have maybe rank and a pension to lose, so I think most of them would go along, until it got dangerous. What good is a pension if you're too busy pushing up daisies to collect? I don't know what the make up of the military is now. Minorities were around 40% when I was a soldier. Could be that it's shifted an awful lot since then. But to rely on the old perception that the military is made up of fools and idiots too lazy to get a real job is a mistake. Most of the people I served with (including minorities) were very bright and patriotic, who joined in order to give themselves a head start in life. The military offers an awful lot of benefits as compared to paying high college tuition. We've always had some great people defending our country. I think we still do. 7mm
Do not for one second fall into the trap believing that the military and LEO's are freedom loving folks, who cherish the SA rights, and will not allow a tyrant to confiscate our guns. Most are nothing but a bunch of dumbazz sheep who will follow right along with whatever the government tells them to do.
Just for the sake of perspective James, have you ever been in the US military or served as a sworn LE?
I figure the percentage of LEO and .mil that will comply with those orders is about on par with the folks that will actually not meekly comply with handing them over. That number is going to be highly variable based on a number of factors: age, location, and background being three major contributors
Anyone trying to speak on behalf of 'all LEOs' is pissing in the wind. Hell, I wouldn't even try to guess at what Manchester, NH cops or NHSP folks would do. I can take a damn good guess at what my people would do, but wouldn't extend beyond them and the folks from elsewhere I know personally.
If the Government goes full on East Germany and gives people perks for turning in their neighbors, there will be a lot of snakes take the bait. The same can be said for the police and military, which may be one in the same at that point. Some of the true patriots in those jobs will refuse to comply and some ladder climbing back stabbers will gleefully follow orders to enhance their careers. The question is will there be enough patriots to put their foot down and win back our country, or will it morph into a Communist Block like state?
No dictator ever found himself short of myrmidons to do the dirty work. Most cops will take an order to confiscate as a lawful, Constitutional order, and knock on your door.
Let me change your perspective a bit: There's only one man above me in my food chain, and I know what he would do if, by some dark miracle, this became law in NH. I know 100% what he would do, and that's why I will work for him. I also know me, and what I would do in that scenario, that's why my guys trust me.
What will happen in even the 'urban' areas of NH...........even I can't predict. Like I said previously: you stated 'all '. You're wrong.
Let me change your perspective a bit: There's only one man above me in my food chain, and I know what he would do if, by some dark miracle, this became law in NH. I know 100% what he would do, and that's why I will work for him. I also know me, and what I would do in that scenario, that's why my guys trust me.
What will happen in even the 'urban' areas of NH...........even I can't predict. Like I said previously: you stated 'all '. You're wrong.
Good for you I applaud you, but if it comes right down to it, for every man such as you 10 will willingly take your place
Let me change your perspective a bit: There's only one man above me in my food chain, and I know what he would do if, by some dark miracle, this became law in NH. I know 100% what he would do, and that's why I will work for him. I also know me, and what I would do in that scenario, that's why my guys trust me.
What will happen in even the 'urban' areas of NH...........even I can't predict. Like I said previously: you stated 'all '. You're wrong.
Yeah, it's very dependent on leadership and local politics.
Out here in the rural and West, there's lots of "Constitutional Sheriffs".
Not sure how many of them actually are, but they get elected on the claim. Most will stand firm against not enforcing illegal/unconstitutional gun laws.
The liberal cities will be targeted first. And even then, they will find someone not willing to buy what they are selling.
Let me change your perspective a bit: There's only one man above me in my food chain, and I know what he would do if, by some dark miracle, this became law in NH. I know 100% what he would do, and that's why I will work for him. I also know me, and what I would do in that scenario, that's why my guys trust me.
What will happen in even the 'urban' areas of NH...........even I can't predict. Like I said previously: you stated 'all '. You're wrong.
Good for you I applaud you, but if it comes right down to it, for every man such as you 10 will willingly take your place
That I won't argue (in general). That also fits my original statement: for every man like 'us' that won't turn on his schiit, there's 10 who will and, further, will rat you and I out.
What has resent history told us about gun confiscation?
Absolutely 100% unequivocally LE will come and take your firearms if told to do so.
In fact it is happening in America as I write this.....
Yep. Every enforcement of a Red Flag Law falls into this category. The person victimized by it never had timely notice that his liberties were being jeopardized by a court proceeding. That's a requirement, long enshrined in US law, before property can be taken.
Sadly " Constitutional Sheriffs" will be pushed aside by greater powers if and when this happens.
LOL...
They have already twisted things around about Constitutional Sheriffs...
Read this schidt...
Quote
Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) is a political organization of local police officials in the United States who believe in an interpretation of the United States Constitution wherein federal and state government authorities are subordinate to local government authority. In this regard, the CSPOA is an outgrowth of the Patriot movement and has some ideological similarities with the Sovereign Citizen Movement, although they are by no means identical.[1] An article by the Intelligence Report of the Southern Poverty Law Center states that "... the real root of the 'county supremacy' movement that has been explicitly embraced by the CSPOA is the Posse Comitatus, a racist and anti-Semitic group of the 1970s and 1980s that also defined the county sheriff as the highest 'legitimate' law enforcement authority in the country. . . ." and continues to identify several county sheriffs who are in sympathy with the stated goals of the CSPOA.[2]
I do believe they have named the Oath Keepers group as a "terrorist organization" as well.
SOooooo.....
If you are law enforcement, or ex-law enforcement/military and believe the Constitution should be upheld, and the oath you took to uphold it... makes you a racist and a terrorist.
The laws in my state have gotten significantly better. No Red Flag Laws. Constitutional Carry from Nebraska to the Red River. The states I live my life in are not the problem. I get to vote for people in one of the two that I'm normally in and nobody I voted for has done anything anti-gun.
All this talk about the popo enforcing laws, yet not a shred of responsibility for the people, which YOU elect, making them.
In most cases it's commie city folk who elect the people making those laws. No matter. Those elected took an oath to uphold the constitution. Making laws in violation of the supreme law of the land is a clear violation of their oath of office and any law that violates is illegal in itself. Anyone who enforces a law made in clear violation of the constitution is no more than a govt. thug. There is nothing in the second amendment that allows for confiscation of firearms of any kind whatsoever.
They aren't coming for my old 3030, theh are coming because I am a threat by being NRA, question the city council, or told the doctor I choose a quick exit over 5 years of chemo that will bankrupt my wife Look at Waco, ruby ridge, new Orleans and on
Same thing came up after obumer got elected...I know tin western Washington the..Pierce county sheriff went around to the gun shops to calm everyone down...he said we are not confiscating guns we got way bigger problems to address than harassing law biding citizens ..
All this talk about the popo enforcing laws, yet not a shred of responsibility for the people, which YOU elect, making them.
If you really believe that voting is a valid stopgap against tyranny anymore, you haven't been paying attention. Everything America has stood for, and against, has been undermined without a valid vote, and you LEOs defend that desecration with the most force stolen money can buy. How dare you attempt to scold the public about sensible abilities to prevent such disgusting dilemmas, when you and your colleagues willingly create them for a paycheck.
Pugs: You ask "What do I know?".Seeing as you are an officer and a gentlemen, please allow me to give you the gouge on a few topics no one covered at Uncle Sam's Canoe Club or ROTC or AOCS. During the Bonus March McCarther lead the infantry charge while Patton supported him with tanks when they attacked women and children on Anocosta Flats. Eisenhower had this to say: "During the military operation, Major Dwight D. Eisenhower, later the 34th president of the United States, served as one of MacArthur's junior aides.[23] Believing it wrong for the Army's highest-ranking officer to lead an action against fellow American war veterans, he strongly advised MacArthur against taking any public role: "I told that dumb son-of-a-bitch not to go down there," he said later. "I told him it was no place for the Chief of Staff." [24] Despite his misgivings, Eisenhower later wrote the Army's official incident report that endorsed MacArthur's conduct.[25]" Cover the CO's azz. Sound familiar? During the Battle of Blair Mountain (West Virginia 1921) Billy Mitchell lead a flight of Army Martin B1 bombers that dropped WW I bombs on coal miners on August 29, 1921. Fort Sheridan on the shores of Lake Michigan just north of Chicago was built by the Army to house federal troops because the rich folk of Chicago were uneasy due to the Pullman Strike of 1894 and the Haymarket Riot of 1886 During the Minneapolis General Strike of 1934 police killed 2 and wounded 67 with buckshot. I disagree with your conclusions. My opinion is that you only need to offer some police officers a little overtime or promise some military officers a good fitness report and there will be a long line of volunteers stacked up in front of your front door when the time comes.
Do not for one second fall into the trap believing that the military and LEO's are freedom loving folks, who cherish the SA rights, and will not allow a tyrant to confiscate our guns. Most are nothing but a bunch of dumbazz sheep who will follow right along with whatever the government tells them to do.
Just for the sake of perspective James, have you ever been in the US military or served as a sworn LE?
mike r
I have not.......but I don't have to know that the military and the biggest majority of the LEO's are trained to take orders.......period. That is especially true with the military.
Pugs: You ask "What do I know?".Seeing as you are an officer and a gentlemen, please allow me to give you the gouge on a few topics no one covered at Uncle Sam's Canoe Club or ROTC or AOCS. During the Bonus March McCarther lead the infantry charge while Patton supported him with tanks when they attacked women and children on Anocosta Flats. Eisenhower had this to say: "During the military operation, Major Dwight D. Eisenhower, later the 34th president of the United States, served as one of MacArthur's junior aides.[23] Believing it wrong for the Army's highest-ranking officer to lead an action against fellow American war veterans, he strongly advised MacArthur against taking any public role: "I told that dumb son-of-a-bitch not to go down there," he said later. "I told him it was no place for the Chief of Staff." [24] Despite his misgivings, Eisenhower later wrote the Army's official incident report that endorsed MacArthur's conduct.[25]" Cover the CO's azz. Sound familiar? During the Battle of Blair Mountain (West Virginia 1921) Billy Mitchell lead a flight of Army Martin B1 bombers that dropped WW I bombs on coal miners on August 29, 1921. Fort Sheridan on the shores of Lake Michigan just north of Chicago was built by the Army to house federal troops because the rich folk of Chicago were uneasy due to the Pullman Strike of 1894 and the Haymarket Riot of 1886 During the Minneapolis General Strike of 1934 police killed 2 and wounded 67 with buckshot. I disagree with your conclusions. My opinion is that you only need to offer some police officers a little overtime or promise some military officers a good fitness report and there will be a long line of volunteers stacked up in front of your front door when the time comes.
As a more than casual student of military history I am well aware of examples of the military being used in violation of Posse Comitatus in the past however I believe that there are far more training, controls and scrutiny since 1945 than the incidents you cite of almost a century ago. As I noted earlier, the defense "just following orders" died in WW-II and every soldier, sailor and airman knows it and knows their obligation wrt lawful and unlawful orders.
By the way, there is zero evidence that Martin B-10's were deployed by Mitchell to bomb citizens. They were used for observation only. The aerial bombings were via private planes. As far as police, I can't speak to it. The one's I know are great guys and very much not going to participate in such actions.
You have your opinion, I have mine. Mine is based on my training and experience.
Do not for one second fall into the trap believing that the military and LEO's are freedom loving folks, who cherish the SA rights, and will not allow a tyrant to confiscate our guns. Most are nothing but a bunch of dumbazz sheep who will follow right along with whatever the government tells them to do.
Just for the sake of perspective James, have you ever been in the US military or served as a sworn LE?
mike r
I have not.......but I don't have to know that the military and the biggest majority of the LEO's are trained to take orders.......period. That is especially true with the military.
If this is such a fuggin forgone conclusion......why the fugg has it not happened yet?
The Dems are merely allowing us to flap in the wind?
Ample opportunity to have accomplished this task in the past.......frogsnacks.
Public opinion.
It's an all out concerted effort to sway public opinion and vilify gun owners to the point that public opinion supports gun confiscation.
An all out push back from our side to that, with our Constitution in hand is why it hasn't happened yet.
But the more lies and propaganda that gets told daily, and the more emotional responses to mass shooter events strengthen their side, and weaken ours... Especially when you throw in the turmoil of the NRA.
If we let up for one minute that will snatch our guns faster than your frog can fart.
It's an all out concerted effort to sway public opinion and vilify gun owners to the point that public opinion supports gun confiscation.
Local news: Rockinbar was arrested in his home today for failing to pay a parking ticket. Police seized _____ rounds of ammunition, _____ high-capacity handguns, _____ assault rifles, and _____ pounds of explosive gun powder.
They surely didn’t hesitate to ignore people’s Constitutional Rights during Katrina! Likely, will not hesitate to do it again. You may not fear your states military reservists, and your local police, but yours will be sent elsewhere and another state’s troops will be sent to your home. You are not their friends, relatives, neighbors, and they “have no dog in the hunt”.....and will ignore your Rights. This is what happened in New Orleans.....many of the offending military and police officers were from other states.
I also believe that, just like our politicians that take an oath to uphold the Constitution, many of our military have no concept of what they swore allegiance to and don’t care. Far too many enlisted for the free stuff they can get....not because they were “patriots”! memtb
They surely didn’t hesitate to ignore people’s Constitutional Rights during Katrina! Likely, will not hesitate to do it again. You may not fear your states military reservists, and your local police, but yours will be sent elsewhere and another state’s troops will be sent to your home. You are not their friends, relatives, neighbors, and “have no dog in the hunt”.....and will ignore your Rights. This is what happened in New Orleans.....many of the offending military and police officers were from other states. memtb
All this talk about the popo enforcing laws, yet not a shred of responsibility for the people, which YOU elect, making them.
In most cases it's commie city folk who elect the people making those laws. No matter. Those elected took an oath to uphold the constitution. Making laws in violation of the supreme law of the land is a clear violation of their oath of office and any law that violates is illegal in itself. Anyone who enforces a law made in clear violation of the constitution is no more than a govt. thug. There is nothing in the second amendment that allows for confiscation of firearms of any kind whatsoever.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality that would mean you couldn't disarm a person that was invading your home to commit a robbery. As far as commies making the law, you are correct and as long as people allow their rights to slip away it will worsen. Worrying about the cops is about dumbest, most simpleminded thing a person can do. It's like worrying about your wife's boyfriend's.
That's a gross distortion. The protesters were rioters, rather like our Antifa. The folks ordered to suppress the riots were generally ordered to use the sides of their sabres, rather than the edges. That was a mistake that likely cost the Russian people a lifetime of misery under the Bolsheviks.
California Senate approves $24 million for gun confiscation program MARCH 7, 2013 12 AM SACRAMENTO -- The California Senate approved a $24-million expenditure on Thursday to speed the confiscation of guns from people who have been disqualified from owning firearms because of criminal convictions or serious mental illness.
Sen. Mark Leno (D-San Francisco) said budget cuts to the Department of Justice have hampered a program that targets people who purchased firearms legally but were later disqualified because of a subsequent conviction or determination of mental illness.
As a result of the cuts, there is a backlog of 19,000 people who have improper possession of more than 40,000 guns, including 1,600 assault weapons, and the number is increasing faster than their firearms can be confiscated.
“The mountain continues to grow,” Leno said. “This is a serious and immediate threat to our public safety.”
The Senate voted 31-0 to approve an urgency bill that would take the $24 million over three years from a Department of Justice account funded by gun owners who pay a fee when they register their guns with the state.
Everyone in the military is also trained to understand what a lawful order is and what is not and that they have an obligation to question it. The "just following orders" is not a defense that has been accepted since WW-II and they know they are individually accountable.
Any orders to confiscate will be not be something the government can get through that wicket. Even if the communist/dems get the executive and the legislative branches, the judicial branch will find confiscation unconstitutional. I expect we will very soon here find Red Flags laws at the supreme level. The right case of lack of due process just needs to come up the chain.
Pugs, With MUCH respect to your service and sacrifices, I think you are wrong on this one.
Despots have never had any problem finding jack booted thugs to do their dirty work. Millions of dead Jews, Gypsies, and other undesirables scattered across German held Europe is a testament to such. As are millions more dead spread across Russia as the Armies and Police turned from their duties and turned their arms against Romanov Supporters.
I have no problem believing you and many like you in today's military would stand up for right. But the "progress" of the left will not be stopped, perhaps temporarily slowed, but not stopped by the likes of you and me. We will be swept aside, or summarily executed, when we get in the way. It will not be tomorrow, and possibly not while you or I are still breathing. But the "Red Revolution" is coming within our grandkids' lifetimes.
I hope and pray for their sake that it does not cost as many lives in America as it did in Russia nearly 100 years ago. And I pray that leftists' hold on America is less tenuous than it was in Russia.
That's a gross distortion. The protesters were rioters, rather like our Antifa. The folks ordered to suppress the riots were generally ordered to use the sides of their sabres, rather than the edges. That was a mistake that likely cost the Russian people a lifetime of misery under the Bolsheviks.
You are 180deg out of phase with my thoughts, but that's ok, maybe this one will clue you in..
No thanks, but I recognize we both made our valid points and deduct your post from your KOTY account ..
The notion that I have a "KOTY account" is a mere figment of your fevered imagination, and that of a small cadre of your ilk here at the Fire.
It is difficult to believe that you do not strive to maintain your well earned KOTY w/ the majority of your posts. You make it obvious daily that you live a life of deep paranoia and dissatisfaction and blame others for your diminished appreciation of reality.
You do realize that the books of which you are so enamored are minor works of fiction, which means that they are not factual, much like the mindless tripe that you frequently spew on this site.
Trying to lead a crusade of your fellow blind reactionaries to rail against reality is not the basis for your KOTY title, which is being seriously contended lately. It is the base ignorance of your fear and hate based prejudice that you proselytize on this site much too frequently that maintains your lead.
Who do you suppose is going to peoples homes and confiscating these guns?
Will LE come and take your guns? What you really think doesn't matter, what the reality is does.
From August last year,
Quote
California legislators OK bill to expand gun-confiscation law California legislators OK bill to expand gun-confiscation law The bill passed the Senate, 25-12, on Tuesday and now heads to Gov. Jerry Brown, who vetoed a similar proposal in 2016. He has not indicated whether he will sign the latest bill.
“This is about getting guns out of the hands of the wrong people, Ting said Tuesday.
I had some stuff to do Wednesday night. I got done haying fairly early as it was still light out and started on a 300 mile drive. I got over within about six miles of the county seat and there were cops everywhere on the four-lane US highway. Pulling people over right and left with probably eight units. We heard from several sources that they were on a "fishing expedition" and were drug-dogging each vehicle. Thankfully, I didn't get pulled over because we didn't get home until like 2 in the morning anyway.
I don't do drugs, but I lean heavily towards libertarianism when it comes to "The War on Drugs" and at best just DGAF about druggers as long as they are not doing other crimes-which admittedly, is usually not the case. But here are everyday citizens, going about their business, pulled over and held up by cops. The number of officers in the Sheriff's department for our county has went up from 4 in the late seventies to 17 currently, and they were incensed that recently the county commissioners didn't increase their funding ENOUGH to add more. Note that I said "enough" as they did increase it.
There will be some on here who don't understand why I posted this here, but I think most will.
California Senate approves $24 million for gun confiscation program MARCH 7, 2013 12 AM SACRAMENTO -- The California Senate approved a $24-million expenditure on Thursday to speed the confiscation of guns from people who have been disqualified from owning firearms because of criminal convictions or serious mental illness.
Sen. Mark Leno (D-San Francisco) said budget cuts to the Department of Justice have hampered a program that targets people who purchased firearms legally but were later disqualified because of a subsequent conviction or determination of mental illness.
As a result of the cuts, there is a backlog of 19,000 people who have improper possession of more than 40,000 guns, including 1,600 assault weapons, and the number is increasing faster than their firearms can be confiscated.
“The mountain continues to grow,” Leno said. “This is a serious and immediate threat to our public safety.”
The Senate voted 31-0 to approve an urgency bill that would take the $24 million over three years from a Department of Justice account funded by gun owners who pay a fee when they register their guns with the state.
We, collectively, have been crying for decades,"Enforce the laws we already have. We do not need any new laws."
California, for once, is attempting to enforce an old law. A valid federal law which has been on the books for decades. Convicted felons are prohibited from gun ownership.
Is there an issue with rounding up convicted felons or those adjudicated as mentally defective who illegally own firearms?
As happens so often on the ‘fire, we are getting side tracked. There are a number of current/former military and law enforcement folks that participate here. I have not heard a single one of ‘em advocate for gun confiscation. I have no doubt that they are sincere, and truthful in their denial of any possibility they would be a party to such actions. That said, I sincerely feel, and that is based on observation, that many members of the military and law enforcement do not all share that same world view. We are all tribal, and tend to defend our own, but like it or not, bad actors, for whatever reasons, will do as told. How widespread that may turn out to be is debatable, but yeah, it’s going to take place.
If this is such a fuggin forgone conclusion......why the fugg has it not happened yet?
The Dems are merely allowing us to flap in the wind?
Ample opportunity to have accomplished this task in the past.......frogsnacks.
Many here are old enough to remember when "assault" type rifles were difficult to purchase and Glock hi cap mags were selling for $100.00. There are better and cheaper weapons available to lawful citizens then any time in recent memory. Excellent training in the use of these goodies is abundant and available to those smart enough to embrace it.
The military and police represent a miniscule portion of the US population. A people get the government that they earn. Those that fear confiscation have obviously surrendered in advance and seek to blame others for their weakness.
I had some stuff to do Wednesday night. I got done haying fairly early as it was still light out and started on a 300 mile drive. I got over within about six miles of the county seat and there were cops everywhere on the four-lane US highway. Pulling people over right and left with probably eight units. We heard from several sources that they were on a "fishing expedition" and were drug-dogging each vehicle. Thankfully, I didn't get pulled over because we didn't get home until like 2 in the morning anyway.
I don't do drugs, but I lean heavily towards libertarianism when it comes to "The War on Drugs" and at best just DGAF about druggers as long as they are not doing other crimes-which admittedly, is usually not the case. But here are everyday citizens, going about their business, pulled over and held up by cops. The number of officers in the Sheriff's department for our county has went up from 4 in the late seventies to 17 currently, and they were incensed that recently the county commissioners didn't increase their funding ENOUGH to add more. Note that I said "enough" as they did increase it.
There will be some on here who don't understand why I posted this here, but I think most will.
While I'm not anywhere close to you on drugs, as I believe the druggies and the drug dealers should be just shot and thrown in a sinkhole somewhere, I do agree that most police agencies spend more time looking for someone doing something wrong than anything else. A prime example is I-40 that goes across the state of Tennessee. Some of those small county cops along that interstate stop any vehicle that even looks suspicious.
Now, I don't have a problem with them stopping the flow of drugs along that road, and it is one of the main avenues for them in this part of the country. But, there have been several cases where they stopped a car, the people inside had a lot of money, and that money was confiscated and never returned, even though there was no evidence of drugs or other criminal activity. Cops love power, and the perks that go along with it, and I trust none of them to ever protect my rights.......all I can do is hope that they do.
I wasn't going to chime in on this thread because I get called a "cop hater" but that is far from the truth. I have a lot of respect for cops, military or any professional that does their job well. I have a good relationship with our local sheriff and many LEO. I do however despise the overreach of authority in any and all cases. Politicians being the worst in my mind.
I do want to make one point here. It should be noted that in every single thread like this the same thing happens. There is a line drawn in the sand and 95% of the folks always take the same side. LE as a rule will usually stick together even if they don't feel it's right. That is what is taught and ingrained during training and during their careers. To their credit, we all do the same thing. We all stand up for like-minded people. I wish there was a way out of the us vs. them attitude in any of these situations. It is not healthy for a community or an entire country.
What scares me is if, or when the SHTF that the same divide would happen. Call me a conspiracy nut but it is shown right here among mostly conservative minded people on a daily basis. I think most here are good honest people. Many differences of opinion but generally good folks. I don't fear an outright gun confiscation happening but the government is definitely boiling the frog.
The rub on all of this is..... The enforcement branch will not be losing their rights. They will still have the tools to protect those near and dear to them. "Us" don't need to protect ourselves because "them" will. It's a slippery slope and I hope the good folks on both sides make the right decisions.
Keep up the good fight because at the end of they day we should ALL be on the same side.
I wasn't going to chime in on this thread because I get called a "cop hater" but that is far from the truth. I have a lot of respect for cops, military or any professional that does their job well. I have a good relationship with our local sheriff and many LEO. I do however despise the overreach of authority in any and all cases. Politicians being the worst in my mind.
I do want to make one point here. It should be noted that in every single thread like this the same thing happens. There is a line drawn in the sand and 95% of the folks always take the same side. LE as a rule will usually stick together even if they don't feel it's right. That is what is taught and ingrained during training and during their careers. To their credit, we all do the same thing. We all stand up for like-minded people. I wish there was a way out of the us vs. them attitude in any of these situations. It is not healthy for a community or an entire country.
What scares me is if, or when the SHTF that the same divide would happen. Call me a conspiracy nut but it is shown right here among mostly conservative minded people on a daily basis. I think most here are good honest people. Many differences of opinion but generally good folks. I don't fear an outright gun confiscation happening but the government is definitely boiling the frog.
The rub on all of this is..... The enforcement branch will not be losing their rights. They will still have the tools to protect those near and dear to them. "Us" don't need to protect ourselves because "them" will. It's a slippery slope and I hope the good folks on both sides make the right decisions.
Keep up the good fight because at the end of they day we should ALL be on the same side.
If this is such a fuggin forgone conclusion......why the fugg has it not happened yet?
The Dems are merely allowing us to flap in the wind?
Ample opportunity to have accomplished this task in the past.......frogsnacks.
Many here are old enough to remember when "assault" type rifles were difficult to purchase and Glock hi cap mags were selling for $100.00. There are better and cheaper weapons available to lawful citizens then any time in recent memory. Excellent training in the use of these goodies is abundant and available to those smart enough to embrace it.
The military and police represent a miniscule portion of the US population. A people get the government that they earn. Those that fear confiscation have obviously surrendered in advance and seek to blame others for their weakness.
mike r
Mike,
We in the "cow-counties" sure didn't "EARN" the governor Las Vegas gave us. His utter contempt for rural NV was forced down our throats by the southern NV resort industry and accompanying unions.
If this is such a fuggin forgone conclusion......why the fugg has it not happened yet?
The Dems are merely allowing us to flap in the wind?
Ample opportunity to have accomplished this task in the past.......frogsnacks.
Many here are old enough to remember when "assault" type rifles were difficult to purchase and Glock hi cap mags were selling for $100.00. There are better and cheaper weapons available to lawful citizens then any time in recent memory. Excellent training in the use of these goodies is abundant and available to those smart enough to embrace it.
The military and police represent a miniscule portion of the US population. A people get the government that they earn. Those that fear confiscation have obviously surrendered in advance and seek to blame others for their weakness.
mike r
Mike,
We in the "cow-counties" sure didn't "EARN" the governor Las Vegas gave us. His utter contempt for rural NV was forced down our throats by the southern NV resort industry and accompanying unions.
the fact that we are where we are in the discussion is proof enough we have already slid far down the slope. in a more "ideal" world we wouldn't be needing to talk about this at all. but times change. bob dylan knew that way back when. time has changed, and now the gun issue is perking right along. looks like we're saddling up to have more regs forced upon us by the powers that be. well, that's our fault, but is it wrong to get outvoted? that's what has happened, by and large we've been outvoted. and so it is what it is.
the democrat nominee from atlanta for georgia governor would have brought major gun control legislation up. thankfully she lost. now we've got two senatorial seats open in 2020 and the democrats are already salivating. if we lose our guns, it will be because we lost votes that were essential to keeping them.
L2S, There is no doubt that Clark County has polluted a fine state w/ its' politics as represented by our POS gov. However I believe that all politics are local. Do you and your neighbors trust your Sheriff? if not get rid of him. I still have pretty deep contacts w/in LVMPD and. at this time, have no fear of our LE community. Times are a changing and the future is uncertain. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
I sure don't envy you Mike. Politics down south is getting rancid at best. It's moving north, too...evidence the idiot Bolshevik split-tail Reno Mayor. Fortunately our county is still pretty red, but retiring Navy personnel that are staying in the area are changing us markedly; they're purple for the most part and have no history here to guide them. They don't seem to mind big government and "orders".
Some have been crying to enforce unconstitutional law for years, does that make it right?
I do not know that it is unconstitutional to rescind the rights of convicted felons. In prior societies most would have been executed and the question would be moot. But, as our society has become too touchy feely to execute hardly anyone, those people are returned to civilized society.
Society has a right to protect itself from those previously convicted of felonies. Prohibitions against firearms ownership, and loss of voting rights are the least of these protections.
As most of those convicted felons are anxious to vote D, the Ds are anxious to restore voting rights. They are not so anxious to restore 2'nd A rights, as that does not further their agenda.
Just because the Ds are in favor of disarming convicted felons does not make the idea wrong.
All this talk about the popo enforcing laws, yet not a shred of responsibility for the people, which YOU elect, making them.
In most cases it's commie city folk who elect the people making those laws. No matter. Those elected took an oath to uphold the constitution. Making laws in violation of the supreme law of the land is a clear violation of their oath of office and any law that violates is illegal in itself. Anyone who enforces a law made in clear violation of the constitution is no more than a govt. thug. There is nothing in the second amendment that allows for confiscation of firearms of any kind whatsoever.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality that would mean you couldn't disarm a person that was invading your home to commit a robbery. As far as commies making the law, you are correct and as long as people allow their rights to slip away it will worsen. Worrying about the cops is about dumbest, most simpleminded thing a person can do. It's like worrying about your wife's boyfriend's.
So sue me because I didn't say theres nothing in the constitution that allows for the government to disarm law abiding citizens. I thought you might be smart enough that it didn't need to be spelled out. Alas, I was wrong once before. As for worrying about the cops being "dumb and simpleminded". It ain't gonna be the local librarian they send to take peoples guns.
Seems to me if a person is fit enough to be a part of a free society and not under any sort of supervision they should have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us. I am no expert on the subject I could be wrong but until I hear a really good reason why not I will keep these views. There is a lot of grey area on both sides of that story I definitely agree with the punishment fitting the crime and not the system as it is today. To give up liberty for perceived safety is wrong IMHO Freedom isn't always safe for everyone it is a part of the price we have to pay to remain free, and I like freedom
It's an all out concerted effort to sway public opinion and vilify gun owners to the point that public opinion supports gun confiscation.
Local news: Rockinbar was arrested in his home today for failing to pay a parking ticket. Police seized _____ rounds of ammunition, _____ high-capacity handguns, _____ assault rifles, and _____ pounds of explosive gun powder.
If I fill in my own numbers, I scare me.
Here's a good point. Items like this will become part of the nightly news cycle.
They won't be telling people they've sent the SWAT team in to confiscate. It will be some very minor violation - traffic ticket, child support in arrears, etc., where the arrested was tipped off as being a red flag concern.
A significant number of average Joes simply want to go to work, get their time in, go home, and live their lives. Most will not think this really applies to them. They will not learn the truth from the nightly news, as this applies only to the terrorists.
As for LEO's and military being sent to do the dirty work...I'm old enough to remember the police were once called "Peace Officers" - keepers of the peace and public servants. That's a long time ago, and "law enforcement" is not necessarily keeping the peace in the neighborhood.
It's a toss up, really. Big city/urban police? Many will enforce the illegal laws/orders, because the police chiefs will tell their departments they're dealing with criminal terrorists, not Constitution-abiding patriots. Some won't obey...but they have families, employability, mortgages, and their waiting pension all part of that equation. No urban LEO wants to be placed on the unemployable list for failure to follow direct orders. The pressure will be enormous.
However, if a sizable number rebel, it would be a wise thing to stay on the job and rebel. If they merely walk away, the department has freed positions and money to hire as far down the scale as they need o to ensure compliance with department policy. Is that already happening in some cities along the West Coast?
Small city/rural area...where everyone already knows who everyone else is...a much different story. I can see most of these becoming 2A sanctuary regions.
County sheriffs? Depends on the local politics, and who the sheriff owes political favors to. Urban and minority counties may well lean blue. Others red - and become 2A sanctuaries as well.
The rural county/small town effect is already being seen along the interiors of the West Coast states, where the gun laws passed by the Leftists are not being enforced outside blue jurisdictions.
I suspect the same will be true across most of the nation.
The military? Most will stay out of it. As integrated as most units are...every person in every unit has family/friends affected by the laws, and most do not wish to fire on them.
Now, for deeper speculation....
All of this is for the first 6-9 months of the gun grab.After the initial grabs are made, patriots will be confronted with a huge decision -
1) Do they hide their weaponry, don't make waves, and hope to ride out the societal insanity? With Venezuela rolling on 20 years of insanity...that doesn't bode well here in America....
or
2) Begin forming a true resistance force, and have to live life mobile, and in secret?
If the latter happens...then LEO's, deputies, etc., who are enforcing the law on behalf of their masters will become targets. Today, LEO's are people just wanting to live to the end of the day, get their job done, and go home to their families. Under this scenario, though? Every traffic stop becomes a possible assassination. Drive by shootings. Police having to drive their armored carriers just to stay safe...which brings in IED's. Families being targeted.
It would get very ugly. Reprisals on every side becomes a nightly thing. If anything...Americans know how to fight extremely well under the cover of night.
Then, there's real loony: our military relinquished of their place and replaced by the paramilitary Obama very loudly espoused and declared ought to not only exist, but be as well-funded, armed, and trained as our current military is. With much of the deeper government machine full obedient to the Left, it would not surprise me a bit should such a "Left military" actually exists. In all truthfulness...trillions went missing, and no budget was ever passed under that president. If such does exist...I can see a Leftist president , with a stroke of a pen and a phone call, shut our military out of the chain of command, and bring in the new troops.
Treason, sedition, and rebellion against government has always been defined by who has been in power. Only here in America do we have a Constitution many deem to ride above the government...but that thought is being erased from the public conscience even as we speak.
Seems to me if a person is fit enough to be a part of a free society and not under any sort of supervision they should have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us. I am no expert on the subject I could be wrong but until I hear a really good reason why not I will keep these views. There is a lot of grey area on both sides of that story I definitely agree with the punishment fitting the crime and not the system as it is today. To give up liberty for perceived safety is wrong IMHO Freedom isn't always safe for everyone it is a part of the price we have to pay to remain free, and I like freedom
If punishment was consistent with the crime and carried out quickly there would be less crime. Crimes like murder and attempted murder should be considered the same because one succeeded and one failed. Kid napping, rape, killing someone while drunk driving or distracted should be the same. All these should be death after one appeal.
If you think they won't follow orders , look back WW1 vets that MacArthur ordered marched on . That was an eye opening piece of history for me . And they didn't have theaitwavesbeing bombarded with propaganda back then . Just a matter of following orders .Kenneth
Seems to me if a person is fit enough to be a part of a free society and not under any sort of supervision they should have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us. I am no expert on the subject I could be wrong but until I hear a really good reason why not I will keep these views. There is a lot of grey area on both sides of that story I definitely agree with the punishment fitting the crime and not the system as it is today. To give up liberty for perceived safety is wrong IMHO Freedom isn't always safe for everyone it is a part of the price we have to pay to remain free, and I like freedom
The problem is, most convicted felons released to society are NOT fit to be a part of that society.
Why are we asked if they will when they are already doing it? The military is seldom used (yet) but cops do it all the time. They don't go through any checks to see if the orders are constitutional or valid. The just "obey orders".
In some cases they are taking guns ( and anything else they wish to grab or that they are ordered to grab) from criminals. In others they are taking guns because they are pawns of politicians who ascribe a criminal title to someone they don't like. Cops are largely selected from the type of people that will do as they are told and not "buck the system".
In EVERY case of unconstitutional seizures, the cops don't check. That's is why they happen at all. The just do as they are told and what they are paid to do. NO ONE is more likely to disobey their pledged allegiance to the Constitution then a cop. Some politicians will but nearly all cops will --- when told to.
That may sound like the words of an agitator, but if I am wrong then ask yourself who else takes what citizens earned themselves other then cops? The statures and courts may order it, but the COPS do it.
Why are we asked if they will when they are already doing it? The military is seldom used (yet) but cops do it all the time. They don't go through any checks to see if the orders are constitutional or valid. The just "obey orders".
In some cases they are taking guns ( and anything else they wish to grab or that they are ordered to grab) from criminals. In others they are taking guns because they are pawns of politicians who ascribe a criminal title to someone they don't like. Cops are largely selected from the type of people that will do as they are told and not "buck the system".
In EVERY case of unconstitutional seizures, the cops don't check. That's is why they happen at all. The just do as they are told and what they are paid to do. NO ONE is more likely to disobey their pledged allegiance to the Constitution then a cop. Some politicians will but nearly all cops will --- when told to.
That may sound like the words of an agitator, but if I am wrong then ask yourself who else takes what citizens earned themselves other then cops? The statures and courts may order it, but the COPS do it.
NO ONE ELSE!
I've agreed with almost everything you've said on every post of yours I've read.
Seems to me if a person is fit enough to be a part of a free society and not under any sort of supervision they should have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us. I am no expert on the subject I could be wrong but until I hear a really good reason why not I will keep these views. There is a lot of grey area on both sides of that story I definitely agree with the punishment fitting the crime and not the system as it is today. To give up liberty for perceived safety is wrong IMHO Freedom isn't always safe for everyone it is a part of the price we have to pay to remain free, and I like freedom
The problem is, most convicted felons released to society are NOT fit to be a part of that society.
The point he's making is that they shouldn't be released, then. We need to hang more criminals, such as third violent felony conviction.
The rub on all of this is..... The enforcement branch will not be losing their rights. They will still have the tools to protect those near and dear to them. "Us" don't need to protect ourselves because "them" will.
It's not LEO's job to protect us & in the end, they never will; the only one that will protect us is us, pure & simple.
As for the military, their job is to protect the country, not us, either.
Individually & as a group of individuals, it's up to us to take care of us.
if we lose our guns, it will be because we lost votes that were essential to keeping them.
If anyone loses their gun/s and keeps sucking air, it’s because they did not have the balls to fight until their last breath, while fighting / killing the Communists / Tyrants.
If a citizen does not fight till their death to defend their God given inalienable rights and to defend freedom, they should be wrapped in wet hide and staked in the middle of the dessert. If you give up your gun/s, you deserve no less.
That's a gross distortion. The protesters were rioters, rather like our Antifa. The folks ordered to suppress the riots were generally ordered to use the sides of their sabres, rather than the edges. That was a mistake that likely cost the Russian people a lifetime of misery under the Bolsheviks.
You are 180deg out of phase with my thoughts, but that's ok, maybe this one will clue you in..
I don’t think that worked out to well for England.
Their national dish is now curry and they can’t even occupy and defend a bathroom stall.....
I don't know for sure how to put a video in frame, but this lady says pretty clearly exactly how I think it'll happen. One chip off the foundation at a time, much like catching wild pigs!
When Patton Rolled Tanks Over Veterans in Washington, D.C.
In 1932, 17,000 former soldiers marched on Washington, D.C. to demand wartime pay owed to them. The Great Depression ravaged the country, and a president took desperate measures to disperse the angry veterans. Tanks rolled down the streets. Soldiers held people at bayonet-point. Veterans and their families took lungs full of tear gas. People died.
In late July, Attorney General William Mitchell ordered D.C. police to clear out the protesters.
When the police arrived at the shanty town, the veterans fought back. The police drew their revolvers and fired into the crowd, killing World War I veterans Eric Carlson and William Hushka. The situation had spiraled out of control.
Hoover ordered the military to remove the protesters from the city at once. Gen. Douglas MacArthur — then the U.S. Army’s Chief of Staff — led the 12th Infantry Regiment and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment into the fray. The cavalry regiment contained six Renault FT tanks commanded by Maj. George Patton. The Army troops, with bayonets affixed to their rifles, charged into the shanty town and launched tear gas into the crowds.
“Cavalrymen and infantrymen jerked gas masks out of their haversacks,” the Baltimore Evening Sun reported. “The spectators, blinded and choking with the unexpected gas attack, broke and fled. Movie photographers who had parked their sound trucks so as to catch a panorama of the skirmish ground away doggedly, tears streaming down their faces.” Patton’s tanks crushed the makeshift buildings. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River, and Hoover ordered the assault to stop. But MacArthur saw the protesters as communist agitators intent on overthrowing the U.S. government, and continued the operation. More than 1,000 injured veterans ended up in area hospitals. One veteran died and a veteran’s wife miscarried.
Not only will they follow orders, they will follow orders that attack and kill their own.
Everyone in the military is also trained to understand what a lawful order is and what is not and that they have an obligation to question it. The "just following orders" is not a defense that has been accepted since WW-II and they know they are individually accountable.
Any orders to confiscate will be not be something the government can get through that wicket. Even if the communist/dems get the executive and the legislative branches, the judicial branch will find confiscation unconstitutional. I expect we will very soon here find Red Flags laws at the supreme level. The right case of lack of due process just needs to come up the chain.
Pugs, With MUCH respect to your service and sacrifices, I think you are wrong on this one.
I don't think I am and I hope I'm not. We live in odd times and as I said, I do not believe that the military will have any part of it. The police officers I know won't but the quality and I suspect the willingness of police to go along with anything like it vary a lot across this great nation. I suspect the rural ones at least will stand on our side.
To find the answer "If they will follow orders" all we need to do is look at history, US History.
Katrina Ruby Ridge Waco, Kent State Bundy Stand off to name a few.
We can also look at what LEO's will and won't do on a smaller scale as in existing Firearms laws.
Lets start with Mark Witaschek a successful financial adviser with no criminal record. He is facing two years in prison for possession of unregistered ammunition after D.C. police raided his house looking for guns. Mr. Witaschek has never had a firearm in the city, but he is being prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs, pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.
His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”
The police found no guns in the house, but did write on the warrant that four items were discovered: “One live round of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition,” which was an inoperable shell that misfired during a hunt years earlier. Mr. Witaschek had kept it as a souvenir. “One handgun holster” was found, which is perfectly legal.
How many cops refused to follow that order?
How about Shaneen Allen. She was from PA and carried her Carry Gun with her PA permit into NJ. She was arrested and charged. Seems like the cop and the DA were more than willing to arrest her on NJ firearms violations. Wonder why this Cop, the guy that took the "famous" oath , didn't ignore NJ's unconstitutional law and let her go?
How about the FBI? How many FBI agents refused to comply with the outrageous order to saddle up in SWAT gear and raid the home of a Roger Stone? How many agents joined in the fun tat morning?
If you guys think that Cops will not enforce firearms confiscation, then take a simple test.
Go to a location that have bans on certain types of ammo, firearms or mags. Then take these banned items to the local range and have at it. See how long before you are arrested, and charged. Not only arrested, see how long it takes before these Cops come busting down your door and searching your home for more...
OH, and while you are at it, take a Bump-Stock to the public range and see if you get a rise out of the local Cops.
Seems to me if a person is fit enough to be a part of a free society and not under any sort of supervision they should have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us. I am no expert on the subject I could be wrong but until I hear a really good reason why not I will keep these views. There is a lot of grey area on both sides of that story I definitely agree with the punishment fitting the crime and not the system as it is today. To give up liberty for perceived safety is wrong IMHO Freedom isn't always safe for everyone it is a part of the price we have to pay to remain free, and I like freedom
I went through Infantry Officer Basic Course post Vietnam. William Calley was still fresh on everyone's mind. There were a lot of conversations and training about illegal orders. The question was "what is an illegal order". There was no clear answer. In the end the question was "as a military officer, are you willing to give up your career and possibly freedom to do what is right". I can't say that all of my fellow officers were willing to.
Why are we asked if they will when they are already doing it? The military is seldom used (yet) but cops do it all the time. They don't go through any checks to see if the orders are constitutional or valid. The just "obey orders".
In some cases they are taking guns ( and anything else they wish to grab or that they are ordered to grab) from criminals. In others they are taking guns because they are pawns of politicians who ascribe a criminal title to someone they don't like. Cops are largely selected from the type of people that will do as they are told and not "buck the system".
In EVERY case of unconstitutional seizures, the cops don't check. That's is why they happen at all. The just do as they are told and what they are paid to do. NO ONE is more likely to disobey their pledged allegiance to the Constitution then a cop. Some politicians will but nearly all cops will --- when told to.
That may sound like the words of an agitator, but if I am wrong then ask yourself who else takes what citizens earned themselves other then cops? The statures and courts may order it, but the COPS do it.
Gang Members Exempt From Red Flag Just wanted to point out that these Red Flag confiscation orders are nothing more than a political tool. Get this, a private citizen can be legally disarmed by an accusation from nearly anyone, but a member of a criminal gang cannot! As I said in a previous post, the leftist and commies want a disarmed population for political reasons. They want the population dependent on the government for everything, including protection from criminals. This isn't about making anybody safe, it's about ensuring that their agenda cannot be effectively resisted. Rest assured that semi auto rifles are only a first step, not the end goal! Every thinking individual knows this, including LEOs and military. The majority of police serve their own career, not the constitution. At one time it was service to friends and neighbors, and I'm sure many still feel that way, but I'd bet it's no longer true for the vast majority. The military has plenty of "lifers", I'm sure, but for the most part, enlisted personnel are there to get military benefits allowing them to pursue their own lives after their service. And you can bet that officers and NCOs know that they can be held accountable for their own actions, even if ordered to do something. As I said, most military people are a lot smarter than most civilians give them credit for. I know this first hand from my own military service. 7mm
To find the answer "If they will follow orders" all we need to do is look at history, US History.
Katrina
Katrina was especially telling...............and what happened was not at all well publicized.
Also, no one that I am aware of resisted turning over their weapons either.
MM
There is/was a video of an “older” woman that refused to give up her handgun. She was ruffed-up a little, and her handgun was taken. The NRA made a big issue of this and under the Bush administration a law was passed that your 2nd amendment rights were to be recognized in such an emergency! memtb
To find the answer "If they will follow orders" all we need to do is look at history, US History.
Katrina
Katrina was especially telling...............and what happened was not at all well publicized.
Also, no one that I am aware of resisted turning over their weapons either.
MM
There is/was a video of an “older” woman that refused to give up her handgun. She was ruffed-up a little, and her handgun was taken. The NRA made a big issue of this and under the Bush administration a law was passed that your 2nd amendment rights were to be recognized in such an emergency! memtb
Any American Citizen that does not recognize that the most existential threat to their freedom is the American government (and at all levels), is in denial or has their head buried in the sand.
Any American Citizen that does not recognize that the most existential threat to their freedom is the American government (and at all levels), is in denial or has their head buried in the sand.
The government represents the enforcement of the threat and the ones who are armed are the most immediate and visible part of that threat. The real threat however, are the ones pulling the strings, who own the government.
Any American Citizen that does not recognize that the most existential threat to their freedom is the American government (and at all levels), is in denial or has their head buried in the sand.
The government represents the enforcement of the threat and the ones who are armed are the most immediate and visible part of that threat. The real threat however, are the ones pulling the strings, who own the government.
They ALL think that citizens cannot be trusted with freedom.
When you boil it down, the biggest threat to freedom IS government.
Most police are on a little power trip. If you notice most have the shaved head look as it kind of sets them apart from the rest of us. Not counting the bald guys. Lol. I think they will because some already have. Edk
Many LEO's are prior military service, and brought the haircut with them
Haircut ain't got anything to do with anything.
Not to mention it doesn't give a bad guy something to grab onto if it gets physical.
When you hand over your guns make sure the barrels are nice and warm.
Only an idiot is going to be waiting at home for the SWAT team to get there when they start going around collecting guns. Time for a more pro active approach at that point. Just sayin.
All this talk about the popo enforcing laws, yet not a shred of responsibility for the people, which YOU elect, making them.
In most cases it's commie city folk who elect the people making those laws. No matter. Those elected took an oath to uphold the constitution. Making laws in violation of the supreme law of the land is a clear violation of their oath of office and any law that violates is illegal in itself. Anyone who enforces a law made in clear violation of the constitution is no more than a govt. thug. There is nothing in the second amendment that allows for confiscation of firearms of any kind whatsoever.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality that would mean you couldn't disarm a person that was invading your home to commit a robbery.
Bullshit, if you weren't full of strawmen, you'd only be full of yourself. There are no means or reason to disarm an individual, the objective goal is to perforate them if they become a threat to oneself. You are the one enforcing Marxism, not the Law of the Land, which I would hope you were sworn to defend against... though not all departments give merit to the Constitution, and even less LEOs understand such.
Originally Posted by ltppowell
As far as commies making the law, you are correct and as long as people allow their rights to slip away it will worsen.
Wow, so you are a self composed bootlikker that will never disobey his orders. You blame the People for congresscritters, usurping power, misappropriating funds, actively lying to their constituents, election fraud, ad nauseum... and you still attempt to blame US, the People for your enforcement of such..? You are the definition of a self depraved individual. May God have mercy on your soul.
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Worrying about the cops is about dumbest, most simpleminded thing a person can do. It's like worrying about your wife's boyfriend's.
I find it especially cute that you reference Cuckold nature, as it really exemplifies how perverse ya'll view the public... 'Lawmen' are naturally the enforcers of the State's bad policies, are you not going to accept your position as a tyrant when they call your number and ask you to step in line, if only for your pension's sake..? ROFL, don't kid yourself, you are not a moral man, as much as you and I wish you were...
Keep THIS in mind, any and all bootlickers who blindly follow anti-Constitutional "laws" or Executive Orders to maintain your "retirement" (and you know who and what you are).
Famous LAST words at Nuremberg:
"I was only following orders."
There WILL be a reckoning. The 1000 year Reich lasted less than 20 years.
Ever read Turner Diaries? The "Police" are the gangs that Gov't couldn't control - so they deputized them, then send them to search houses, in the process they steal, rape, etc... So the "Police" are not what we think of as today's COPS.
The National Guard - same, sort of, Full of non-professionals, and when they see their friends and family looting and "getting what's mine", are they going to protect what belongs to some corporation thousands of miles away, or get that new stereo and shoes, and schitt......
Retirement/pension funds can disappear over night. Twice in my years of working, corporate Boards of Directors LEGALLY stole my money by replacing it with worthless stock. Sue you say? We did, after the lawyers and judges got their share, twenty years of work gave me $1200.
Retirement/pension funds can disappear over night. Twice in my years of working, corporate Boards of Directors LEGALLY stole my money by replacing it with worthless stock. Sue you say? We did, after the lawyers and judges got their share, twenty years of work gave me $1200.
Par for the course. Typical corporate big-boy behavior.
“Secrecy is the keystone to all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy and censorship. When any government or church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked in this fashion; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, whose mind is free. No, not the rack nor the atomic bomb, not anything. You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him.” ― Robert A Heinlein
It is the same way they ultimately rounded up and then hunted down the Jews in Nazi Germany.
I read this short about 30 years ago in Dillon's Blue Press catalog. It was chilling to me then, and it has stuck with me all the years since.
(Qoute)- This article was originally posted to the Internet by "Annonymous" This story originally appeared in "The Blue Press" (a catalog/magazine put out by Dillon Precision Products, Inc., 7442 Butherus Drive, Scottsdale, AZ 85260, phone 602-948-8009.) The editor, Mark Pixler, was kind enough to allow distribution on the Internet. This story may be reprinted as long as due credit is given to the author and publisher. (Unquote)
Sundown at Coffin Rock by Raymond K. Paden The old man walked slowly through the dry, fallen leaves of autumn, his practiced eye automatically choosing the bare and stony places in the trail for his feet. There was scarcely a sound as he passed, though his left knee was stiff with scar tissue. He grunted occasionally as the tight sinews pulled. Damn chainsaw, he thought.
Behind him, the boy shuffled along, trying to imitate his grandfather, but unable to mimic the silent motion that the old man had learned during countless winter days upon this wooded mountain in pursuit of game. He's fifteen years old, the old man thought. Plenty old enough to be learning. But that was another time, another America. His mind drifted, and he saw himself, a fifteen-year-old boy following in the footsteps of his own grandfather, clutching a twelve gauge in his trembling hands as they tracked a wounded whitetail.
The leg was hurting worse now, and he slowed his pace a bit. Plenty of time. It should have been my own son here with me now, the old man thought sadly. But Jason had no interest, no understanding. He cared for nothing but pounding on the keys of that damned computer terminal. He knew nothing about the woods, or where food came from...or freedom. And that's my fault, isn't it?
The old man stopped and held up his hand, motioning for the boy to look. In the small clearing ahead, the deer stood motionless, watching them. It was a scraggly buck, underfed and sickly, but the boy's eyes lit up with excitement. It had been many years since they had seen even a single whitetail here on the mountain. After the hunting had stopped, the population had exploded. The deer had eaten the mountain almost bare until erosion had become a serious problem in some places. That following winter, three starving does had wandered into the old man's yard, trying to eat the bark off of his pecan trees, and he had wished the "animal rights" fanatics could have been there then. It was against the law, but old man knew a higher law, and he took an axe into the yard and killed the starving beasts. They did not have the strength to run.
The buck finally turned and loped away, and they continued down the trail to the river. When they came to the "Big Oak," the old man turned and pushed through the heavy brush beside the trail and the boy followed, wordlessly. The old man knew that Thomas was curious about their leaving the trail, but the boy had learned to move silently (well, almost) and that meant no talking. When they came to "Coffin Rock," the old man sat down upon it and motioned for the boy to join him.
"You see this rock, shaped like a casket?" the old man asked. "Yes sir." The old man smiled. The boy was respectful and polite. He loved the outdoors, too. Everything a man could ask in a grandson ....or a son.
"I want you to remember this place, and what I'm about to tell you. A lot of it isn't going to make any sense to you, but it's important and one day you'll understand it well enough. The old man paused. Now that he was here, he didn't really know where to start.
"Before you were born," he began at last, "this country was different. I've told you about hunting, about how everybody who obeyed the law could own guns. A man could speak out, anywhere, without worrying about whether he'd get back home or not. School was different, too. A man could send his kids to a church school, or a private school, or even teach them at home. But even in the public schools, they didn't spend all their time trying to brainwash you like they do at yours now." The old man paused, and was silent for many minutes. The boy was still, watching a chipmunk scavenging beside a fallen tree below them.
"Things don't ever happen all at once, boy. They just sort of sneak up on you. Sure, we knew guns were important; we just didn't think it would ever happen in America. But we had to do something about crime, they said. It was a crisis. Everything was a crisis! It was a drug crisis, or a terrorism crisis, or street crime, or gang crime. Even a 'health care' crisis was an excuse to take away a little more of our rights." The old man turned to look at his grandson.
"They ever let you read a thing called the Constitution down there at your school?" The boy solemnly shook his head. "Well, the Fourth Amendment's still in there. It says there won't be any unreasonable searches and seizures. It says you're safe in your own home." The old man shrugged. "That had to go. It was a crisis! They could kick your door open any time, day or night, and come in with guns blazing if they thought you had drugs ...or later, guns. Oh, at first it was just registration -- to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals! But that didn't work, of course, and then later when they wanted to take 'em they knew where to look. They banned 'assault rifles', and then 'sniper rifles', and 'Saturday night specials.' Everything you saw on the TV or in the movies was against us. God knows the news people were! And the schools were teaching our kids that nobody needed guns anymore. We tried to take a stand, but we felt like the whole face of our country had changed and we were left outside."
"Me and a friend of mine, when we saw what was happening, we came and built a secret place up here on the mountain. A place where we could put our guns until we needed them. We figured some day Americans would remember what it was like to be free, and what kind of price we had to pay for that freedom. So we hid our guns instead of losing them."
"One fellow I knew disagreed. He said we ought to use our guns now and stand up to the government. Said that the colonists had fought for their freedom when the British tried to disarm them at Lexington and Concord. Well, he and a lot of others died in what your history books call the 'Tax Revolt of 1998,' but son, it wasn't the revolt that caused the repeal of the Second Amendment like your history book says. The Second Amendment was already gone long before they ever repealed it. The rest of us thought we were doing the right thing by waiting. I hope to God we were right."
"You see, Thomas. It isn't government that makes a man free. In the end, governments always do just the opposite. They gobble up freedom like hungry pigs. You have to have laws to keep the worst in men under control, but at the same time the people have to have guns, too, in order to keep the government itself under control. In our country, the people were supposed to be the final authority of the law, but that was a long time ago. Once the guns were gone, there was no reason for those who run the government to give a damn about laws and constitutional rights and such. They just did what they pleased and anyone who spoke out...well, I'm getting ahead of myself."
"It took a long time to collect up all the millions of firearms that were in private hands. The government created a whole new agency to see to it. There were rewards for turning your friends in, too. Drug dealers and murderers were set free after two or three years in prison, but possession of a gun would get you mandatory life behind bars with no parole.
"I don't know how they found out about me, probably knew I'd been a hunter all those years, or maybe somebody turned me in. They picked me up on suspicion and took me down to the federal building."
"Son, those guys did everything they could think of to me. Kept me locked up in this little room for hours, no food, no water. They kept coming in, asking me where the guns were. 'What guns?' I said. Whenever I'd doze off, they'd come crashing in, yelling and hollering. I got to where I didn't know which end was up. I'd say I wanted my lawyer and they'd laugh. 'Lawyers are for criminals', they said. 'You'll get a lawyer after we get the guns.' What's so funny is, I know they thought they were doing the right thing. They were fighting crime!"
"When I got home I found Ruth sitting in the middle of the living room floor, crying her eyes out. The house was a shambles. While I was down there, they'd come out and took our house apart. Didn't need a search warrant, they said. National emergency! Gun crisis! Your grandma tried to call our preacher and they ripped the phone off the wall. Told her that they'd go easy on me if she just told them where I kept my guns." The old man laughed. "She told them to go to hell." He stared into the distance for a moment as his laughter faded.
"They wouldn't tell her about me, where I was or anything, that whole time. She said that she'd thought I was dead. She never got over that day, and she died the next December."
"They've been watching me ever since, off and on. I guess there's not much for them to do anymore, now that all the guns are gone. Plenty of time to watch one foolish old man." He paused. Beside him, the boy stared at the stone beneath his feet.
"Anyway, I figure that, one day, America will come to her senses. Our men will need those guns and they'll be ready. We cleaned them and sealed them up good; they'll last for years. Maybe it won't be in your lifetime, Thomas. Maybe one day you'll be sitting here with your son or grandson. Tell him about me, boy. Tell him about the way I said America used to be." The old man stood, his bad leg shaking unsteadily beneath him.
"You see the way this stone points? You follow that line one hundred feet down the hill and you'll find a big round rock. It looks like it's buried solid, but one man with a good prybar can lift it, and there's a concrete tunnel right under there that goes back into the hill."
The old man stood, watching as the sun eased toward the ridge, coloring the sky and the world red. Below them, the river still splashed among the stones, as it had for a million years. It's still going, the old man thought. There'll be someone left to carry on for me when I'm gone. It was harder to walk back. He felt old and purposeless now, and it would be easier, he knew, to give in to that aching heaviness in his left lung that had begun to trouble him more and more. Damn cigarettes, he thought. His leg hurt, and the boy silently came up beside him and supported him as they started down the last mile toward the house. How quiet he walks, the old man thought. He's learned well.
It was almost dark when the boy walked in. His father looked up from his paper. "Did you and your granddad have a nice walk?"
"Yes," the boy answered, opening the refrigerator. "You can call Agent Goodwin tomorrow. Gramps finally showed me where it is."
Editor's note: "Sundown at Coffin Rock" is a work of fiction. Any similarity to actual events or to actual people, living or dead, remains to be seen. - Mark Pixler, Editor
All this talk about the popo enforcing laws, yet not a shred of responsibility for the people, which YOU elect, making them.
In most cases it's commie city folk who elect the people making those laws. No matter. Those elected took an oath to uphold the constitution. Making laws in violation of the supreme law of the land is a clear violation of their oath of office and any law that violates is illegal in itself. Anyone who enforces a law made in clear violation of the constitution is no more than a govt. thug. There is nothing in the second amendment that allows for confiscation of firearms of any kind whatsoever.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality that would mean you couldn't disarm a person that was invading your home to commit a robbery.
Bullshit, if you weren't full of strawmen, you'd only be full of yourself. There are no means or reason to disarm an individual, the objective goal is to perforate them if they become a threat to oneself. You are the one enforcing Marxism, not the Law of the Land, which I would hope you were sworn to defend against... though not all departments give merit to the Constitution, and even less LEOs understand such.
Originally Posted by ltppowell
As far as commies making the law, you are correct and as long as people allow their rights to slip away it will worsen.
Wow, so you are a self composed bootlikker that will never disobey his orders. You blame the People for congresscritters, usurping power, misappropriating funds, actively lying to their constituents, election fraud, ad nauseum... and you still attempt to blame US, the People for your enforcement of such..? You are the definition of a self depraved individual. May God have mercy on your soul.
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Worrying about the cops is about dumbest, most simpleminded thing a person can do. It's like worrying about your wife's boyfriend's.
I find it especially cute that you reference Cuckold nature, as it really exemplifies how perverse ya'll view the public... 'Lawmen' are naturally the enforcers of the State's bad policies, are you not going to accept your position as a tyrant when they call your number and ask you to step in line, if only for your pension's sake..? ROFL, don't kid yourself, you are not a moral man, as much as you and I wish you were...
I remember that story, and kept my copy for years.....very sad and and very realistic.
I figure they’ll get family members to turn on one another. An example: in the dead of winter, shut down the power and the grocery store.....women with children will without hesitation turn in their husbands or other family members to get warmth and food for their child! This is just one of many scenarios that could be played-out! memtb
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memtb