At today's Basic Handgun class, I had two terrific people show up with handguns that were entirely unsuitable for their needs. They're beginning handgunners. Good people, but unused to shooting a handgun.


#1 had a 40 S&W Kahr, a relatively light, compact, self-defense firearm.


#2 had a classic, 30 year old 380 AMT pocket pistol/belly gun


Neither student could shoot either of those things worth a hoot! No surprise. The 40 in that lightweight gun kicks like a mule. The AMT 380 kept trying to take bites out of the web between thumb and forefinger of the other student.

I stopped the madness quickly, and substituted my old faithful Ruger 22/45 with 40 grain CCI ammo.


Wow... Within a few shots, each of them was shooting nice, TIGHT, groups... Really nice, TIGHT groups.

Shoot a gun that doesn't kick the snot out of you, particularly if you're a beginner. Results will be better. If you've got someone who wants teaching... Consider handing them your 22, not your hot-loaded 44... Learn gun safety. Learn the fundamentals of marksmanship. Then, when all that is solid, consider bumping up to a more powerful handgun. But not until then. Please.

Thanks, Guy

I am afraid of recoil. Give me a 22 RF or a 44 magnum with 2.5 gr Bullseye and a 180 gr cast and I am good to go for 5 or 6 shots

I'm not afraid of recoil.

Heck I shoot a 500 S&W revolver for fun, in my mid 60's.

But I understand the consequences of dealing with unpleasant recoil. These two good people shot so very well with the 22, but were not even close to good with the tiny AMT 380 or the hard-kicking 40 S&W...

I'm glad they accepted my offer to shoot the 22 semi-auto!

Guy

A 40 S&W is "hard kicking" ?

Good job....

When I run beginner courses I provide all the guns and ammo...S&W .22 revolvers...later transition to a Ruger or Beratta .22 semi-auto...

Bob

In a lightweight like a Kahr it sure does.

For a new shooter? Absolutely.

Of course a beginner is going to perceive it as a hard kick, especially if it's the plastic frame version. Same for that little AMT - maybe worse, 'cause its an inferior grip shape and blowback besides. Nothing surprising there. I've seen noobs show up with J-frame snubbys too, and having the same trouble. OTOH - a full-size 9mm with standard pressure loads is usually no problem. Likewise, a medium frame 4" revolver with a mild .38 spl load.

when i was about six or seven, i conned by dad into to taking me out to the dump, to fire his colt SAA in 38wcf. It was about dusk and i think the fireball was about two feet. I didn't touch that gun for many years later, probably his idea.

A 22 is definitely THE place to start and it makes even guys who shoot bigger stuff better too.

There isn't anyone who can't benefit from a .22. It's only pitfall is that it shoots fairly flat and makes some of the shots beyond 50 easier than lobbing 38's and other sedate stuff out there!

Yep.

I don't like the 40's recoil.
Only have shot a few, Glocks, a Sig and a Beretta.
It is not really a big kick, but it's nasty.

Much prefer a 45 1911, or Ruger single actions in 44 or 45 colt.
Bigger recoil, but it is more more pleasant.

A light Kahr would not be fun.

Heck, I think the P3AT is nasty for what it is.

I shot Dad’s old 1911 at about that age too. That’s what’s wrong with me now. 😬

.40 S&W out of a 1911 is actually quite pleasant......if you're not a lightweight. The P3AT is a pussycat, compared to the AMT 380.

Thanks to the OP.

Far too many folks think beginners and or kids and ladies should start with the same thing we macho men are shooting. Whether it be a hot handgun round, high powered magnum rifle, or a 12 gauge.

I just recently purchased my first 22 cal revolver, a bisley single six. But the kids have always been supplied with special low recoil rounds for rifles and handguns. I make rounds for the 327 SA, DA, and lever rifle which shoot like a 22 WRM, and 41 mags which shoot like a 38 special.

The kids and ladies all enjoy shooting the light loads very much.

I used to be an NRA instructor in Alaska and we always started everyone with a Ruger 22/45 and let them shoot the 22LR, then we went to revolvers, mostly Six series Rugers of various configurations and k frame Smiths most with Hogue grips and let them choose what felt good to them and shoot the light 38 specials. Then they would come in and clean the guns. Never had any complaints from the ladies on either gun.
By providing the guns, we had no problems like that, or with people bringing in loaded guns. We also provided the ammo,

Absolutely.

I work new guys backwards. I start with the .475 or .500 JRH in my BFR's until they are comfortable with them. The are fairly heavy too. Then a .44 mag is nothing at all and going down to a .22 is a pleasure.
I found the mental problem as you go up is hard to get over. Going from a .22 to a .38 still had anticipation for recoil but after a .500, they showed no flinch.
My daughter is skinny and shot a 20 ga for clays. She always missed the first clay but would run the next hundred. We ran out of shells so I gave her my 12 ga and she missed the first again but never missed another. She loves my 1911's and she bought an 8mm Mauser. She joined the Marines and shot the highest score ever shot, man or woman.

LMFAO.

In theory I agree. I would not go above a 44 Mag or heavy loaded 45 Colt though with a new shooter. It is nothing but a mental thing when it comes to recoil.

And once they have learned to anticipate the recoil of that light 12 ga, or 300 Wea mag, or 454 Casull. It is such an easy thing to train the flinch out of them.

Ha Ha Ha. You are a HOOT. A real HOOT.

It might be entirely mental for some, but it is quite physical for others. Some of those others may overcome it mentally, to a degree, but some may not.

For real????

Yeah, sounds funny but it works. Friend was here with his son and I was shooting my .500 JRH and he was scared to death of it. I showed it could be shot with one hand and he finally took it. A few shots and he fell in love, then took his dads .454 and broke water bottles at 100 off hand. Once fear is gone about recoil and noise, things come together.
Only trigger control with a small gun helps to start. Most have a fear as you go up so I start big first. John has a .500 S&W but my heavy loads in my .45 Vaquero has more recoil. Nobody but me has shot more then six shots before giving up. Big guns need a healthy frame of steel. Spandex and plastics will make a gun nasty. A .41 Ruger BH with the aluminum frame is far worse then a SBH .44. Even some .357's will be unpleasant. It comes down to the guns weight and some that we shoot from a revolver when chambered in a rifle will turn your shoulder black. Slippery, shiny and pretty grips are not fun either. The revolver should never "roll'. Recoil from small pistols is just the slide weight coming back. Even the ACP is a tiny cartridge but the slide is heavy.
Had fun last week with my neighbor that does not like handguns but he has a .380 on all day. I made him shoot the .500 and he actually hit the target. John and I made one ragged hole with 5 shots. Joe says a handgun is not made for hunting but it is all I use for deer. I can not convince him. My friend Whitworth should show him.
I recently bought a huge collection when a friend died and have a new appreciation of the .380. The old Colt pocket pistol is amazing. But I also got two 1911's, a Dan Wesson and a Colt series 80. Then an AMT in 9mm WW magnum. I can not post a picture as it is too large.

The stupid runs deep in this thread. Well at least I learned how to create flinch.. f^cking brilliant.

Who in the he'll takes 101 shotgun shells to go shooting?

For a new shooter, I see the point...but to classify it as "hard kicking" just isn't accurate in my opinion.

22 lr, then 38’s or 9mm. Recoil causes flinching and bad muscle memory.

Everything is relative.

Well done, sir.

Yes, for real. Believe it or not, some people have physical limitations. We are not all built the same, and we are not all even physically the same as we once were. That is a revelation to you?

Like the highest score ever for qualifying with a service rifle?

Cascade,

You didn't ask for anyone else's opinion but nonetheless I recommend that NEW handgun shooters be taught with a "plain vanilla" K-frame revolvers (for example the Model 10 S&W) & loaded with 148 grain wadcutters, IF they are going to buy (rather than rent or borrow a handgun).

When I was a "range rat" on the staff of a Texas Police Academy 3+ decades ago, we had "school revolvers" that ALL of the beginners were taught to shoot with & by day 3 of "range week" at least 90% of the "rank beginners" qualified. - By Friday noon, ALL of the beginning shooters/"rookie" officers always qualified.
(In every class we had "rookies" who arrived at the academy & who had never even HELD a gun, much less had ever fired a handgun.)

Note: As soon as the rookies (who didn't own or were to be issued a handgun by their department) qualified, there was a line of "new LEOs" who went to the local police supply vendor to buy their own revolver. = Most of those new LEOs chose a 4-inch K-frame S&W in .38SPL as their first duty weapon, in those long-ago days.

yours, tex

Very true. I am 81 and a half now so things have gone to dirt. But I still love my big revolvers and to shoot 5 into one hole at 50 yards from the bench is still joy. Joe shot my .500 and the ripple going down his arm was a thing for Youtube. He downloads every rifle to a piss ant and I ask why he has a .444 with less power then my revolver. He is skinny as a rail but smokes 10 cigarettes when shooting. Even his 30-06 is like a .380. He does nothing but brag about his guns and says "YOU KNOW" a million times.
Carol calls him the "PEST." He calls every morning to tell what he did at his house but he is a shoemaker with no leather or string. His porch is rotting way so he slabs it with wood so I get into it myself, I say "you know " you can't fix rot, you need to replace it all. he put down a few tongue and groove boards and it rained. so I asked him how he would fit more when the wood swelled? He said it would dry. Good stinking luck. I know how crazy he is when he washes his hunting clothes and keeps them in a plastic bag or out on a line and then the first thing he does when out of his stand he lights up. I hate to go with him anywhere because his truck seat is dog hair and he smokes. I can't move the seat back because of the crap behind it so I struggle to get in. The floor under my feet is so full of crap I lose feeling in my feet. He tells me to stop complaining old man but riding in a dumpster is not fun. He paid more for his truck to get wind up windows because he does not like electric windows. Stupid ass that I have to wind the window down when he smokes. Then there is no stop to the gas peddle and he is on the center line all the time.

It is funny how there are the yahoos that recommends dry firing to help a flinch or dropping down to a 22RF to overcome a flinch. It is pure bull hockey. Unless you experience recoil and learn to put up with it you will never learn to endure it.
No recoil, no problem. But that still doesn't resolve the problem. You don't learn tolerance unless you MAKE UP YOUR MIND TO.

OK.

HIGHEST SCORE EVER SHOT!!!!

Tell you what, why don't you try something? Ask for a volunteer, I am sure folks will stand in line for this chance.

Ask for a volunteer to whack you right up beside the head with a baseball bat every time you pull the trigger on your favorite firearm. Pull the trigger 100 times and get whacked in the head 100 times with a baseball bat.

Then get back to us with your tales of no induced flinch.

A flinch is a physiological response to pain associated with a "trigger", pardon the pun. If you experience pain with each pull of the trigger, you will learn to flinch. It is part of being human.

And it takes a long while to reprogram the brain that a trigger pull is not necessarily associated with pain.

Very true. I am 81 and a half now so things have gone to dirt. But I still love my big revolvers and to shoot 5 into one hole at 50 yards from the bench is still joy. Joe shot my .500 and the ripple going down his arm was a thing for Youtube. He downloads every rifle to a piss ant and I ask why he has a .444 with less power then my revolver. He is skinny as a rail but smokes 10 cigarettes when shooting. Even his 30-06 is like a .380. He does nothing but brag about his guns and says "YOU KNOW" a million times.
Carol calls him the "PEST." He calls every morning to tell what he did at his house but he is a shoemaker with no leather or string. His porch is rotting way so he slabs it with wood so I get into it myself, I say "you know " you can't fix rot, you need to replace it all. he put down a few tongue and groove boards and it rained. so I asked him how he would fit more when the wood swelled? He said it would dry. Good stinking luck. I know how crazy he is when he washes his hunting clothes and keeps them in a plastic bag or out on a line and then the first thing he does when out of his stand he lights up. I hate to go with him anywhere because his truck seat is dog hair and he smokes. I can't move the seat back because of the crap behind it so I struggle to get in. The floor under my feet is so full of crap I lose feeling in my feet. He tells me to stop complaining old man but riding in a dumpster is not fun. He paid more for his truck to get wind up windows because he does not like electric windows. Stupid ass that I have to wind the window down when he smokes. Then there is no stop to the gas peddle and he is on the center line all the time.

My Son in Law's Springfied Xd mod II 3 inch in 40 cal is a mean and nasty bitch.

My 4 inch Smith 657 with 250s over a max charge of H110 is much more pleasant to shoot.

That is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very stupid example. If I couldn't come up with a more suitable example I wouldn't have come up with any. I know of no handgun that will hurt any normal shooter male or female like that. I bet you are the type that cant watch the needle go into your arm when giving blood. People like that have a problem alright, a big problem.
Are you one of them? I am sorry if you are. I truly am.

Yep, matches my experience with noobs too. All the more common nowadays because noobs are buying sub-compacts as their first gun.
I start kids on a 22lr semi-auto pistol. Once they gain proficiency and confidence, I let them choose between a Glock 19 and a full-size 1911 in 45acp. They almost always choose the Glock, cause they've seen them on TV. They struggle to hit anything with the Glock. Then I switch them over to the 1911 and they fall in love with it. Fun to watch them enjoy handgun shooting.

Yes, perfect score. She was taught right and could break a pop bottle at 75 yards off hand with a flint lock. The plastic fantastic AR is a toy and she shoots an 8mm Mauser for fun. She will dump a mag out of my 1911 into 2" at 25 yards all day.

Come on honey. don't let that big ole bad hard kicking 40 S&W hurt you know. Hold on tight with a death grip and spread those feet WWWWWIIIIDDDDEEEE apart so it wont flip you over on your back. Be sure to duck your head as you yank the trigger and close your eyes at the same time.

Oh man.

This is fugking priceless.

I really don’t know what to say about this.. but perfect scores are shot everyday when qualifying with service rifle.. for the army it’s 40 out of 40 engaging targets out to 300 meters.. marines is a little different. But right now as we speak a marine is shooting a perfect score. Your kid wasn’t the first and definitely not the last to shoot a perfect score..

A 250 in bootcamp would be quite a feat.

You have to see it in person, most recruits never shot a gun in their life. To see the helmet liner fly off the head with every shot is priceless. On the 1911 line I was the only one to keep all shots in the kill zone while dirt was busted at every other station. I even threw grenades like a base ball and sarge said "not that way" but he said good throw after. I shot rifle grenades from my shoulder.
I was made the squad leader in a few days. I made expert with every single weapon. I could pull down and assemble the BAR in a minute. I was told to shoot low with it and bring it up but NO so I pissed the sarge off by hitting first. My comment was "DID I MISS?" Another expert badge. Every single shot was to hit with no wasted shots. I could still hit a man on a dead run at 500 yards with the M1 and one shot. I don't need a rattle trap. I am proud to be a rifle man.
No even a Marine recruit can't shoot unless he was a rifle man before. It starts before you sign up.

Don't feel sorry for me. My threshold for pain is right up there with an Apache Indian.

But I am smart enough to understand that my children and grandchildren may not be so blessed. And I care enough for them to make allowances for that.

Goody for them. Protect them from recoil. You are the man.

We do. I load my own and 100 revolver loads go fast. The hate is picking up all the shells to load.

Girls and children are so great and can be taught like no other. I took my girl friend to shoot before we were married. I had my flat top .44 mag with light loads but had super heavy too. She shot and I put in the heavy loads in between. and I asked her if she seen a difference. She said some were louder. Don't mess with a girl, she will put your ass in place. Girlie men abound today and fear recoil when a real girl does not care. What are men today? Pull your panties up tighter so I can laugh at you.

Tell us more about that high score.

I smell


































BULLSCHIDTT!!!

Take a shower. It will help with the smell. You can scrub with a Brillo Pad if you need to. It can help with dingleberries too. Also the new Starship Enterprize toilet paper that is out will help too. It will circle your anus looking for clingons and eliminate them.

Most experienced shooters will say that no one ever worked through a flinch by continuing to shoot whatever gave them the flinch in the first place. A .22LR and proper practice is the tool for that.

yada yada yada. Take away the reason for the fear and the fear will go away. Bring back the reason for the fear and the fear comes back. Recoil management comes from facing the problem head on. Not tiptoeing around it.
I was one of the flinchers, one of the trigger yankers as I shoved forward with my arms with eye closure all the while trying to show the gun who the boss was with physicality instead of doing it mentally. Mentally handling recoil is the key. Just like continuously squeezing the trigger even if a wasp lands on your arm. Just like watching the needle pierce your arm as the blood is drawn and watching the blood fill the syringe. Mind over recoil.
That is the key. If a doofus can figure it out the rest of you mental giants should be able to figure it out. Or it would seem. The problem with most new shooters is they have watched too much television or listened to someone that doesn't know their rear end from a hole in the ground.

And 99.9% of people who have ever dealt with the shooting sports recognize that FACT. A flinch is a conditioned response. You do not get over it by reinforcing the response.

Personal example, at about twenty years of age I acquired my first high powered rifle, a very light weight Win 670 with a hard butt plate in 30-06. I had owned and put 1000's of rounds through a 20 ga single shot, and a 12 ga magnum Wingmaster. But neither shotgun punished my shoulder like that 30-06.

By the time I got through the first five boxes of factory 165s, I knew something was wrong. But was not sure what. It took a lot of reading and a bit more shooting to figure out exactly what the problem was. (The back and blue bruises on my shoulder should have been a clue. But I had been taught that a man just toughed it out)

I put the '06 away for the summer, and purchased a Win 190 autoloader in 22LR with about six bricks of ammo. By the time I used the ammo up, I was watching bullets strike the target through the scope.

Then along came a 26 inch Weatherby Varmintmaster in 22-250. Watching targets explode in the scope as those high velocity bullets impacted demonstrated I had beaten my flinch. Then I was ready to go back to the '06. Often times loaded with 190s at 2800 fps, and then a 7mm STW with 160s at 3200 fps.

For several summers, I would run 200 through that same Winchester, 100 through a Ruger 77 in 25-06, and 100 through the 22-250, every other Saturday through spring and early summer. Most of those from prone in the field and all loaded to the nuts..

But I learned to recognize the feelings of fatigue, and learned to stop shooting when I start dreading the next trigger pull. It works just the same with my revolvers. You have to stop when it starts to hurt.

One should recognize that learning to endure recoil isn't learned by avoiding recoil either.

So how many men did they let you shoot running at 500 yards to prove it. How many did you shoot to learn to hit them on the first shot. Where does one practice this?

A friend found you by another username i believe on another forum bfrshooter.


“What the f&ck did you just f&cking say about me, you little turd. I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my freaking words. You think you can get away with saying that shi&t to me over the Internet? Think again. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little sh&t. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you [bleep] idiot. I will rain fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're freaking dead, kiddo.”

Quoted by internet legen on another site


Bfrshooter, tell me this was you and i will believe it. Only you could have such skills and a network to make this happen.

100% hilarious.

A back-n-forth with a PMI or DI eh? Sure thing.

And I’d love to see your Alpha’s with all those expert badges for each respective weapon.

LMAO

NO not me I would never ever say bad about anyone. You have me confused with someone else.
Then to another comment, I never shot a person but hit deer on full runs at distance. I suppose my best shot ever was on a running chuck at a measured 550 yards when I took hair off but did not kill, BH .44 mag, off hand.

Wow,wow oh wow, we got a new King of bllu schti

You guys are all correct on flinching fixes. You just havent acknowledged sometimes theres guys and gals that just ate lots of lead paint chips when they were little and break flinches by continuing to shoot thru the weapon that produced it initially.

Funny, i have 20/15 vision and cant hardly see a rockchuck at that distance. Was that the same day you shot a 2” group with a revolver at 500 yards???

A "running Chuck"?

At "550 yards"?

Is Safaiman back on the air?

Since you are the GURU of all things to be a GURU on how does one learn to endure recoil by not experiencing the recoil that brought on the recoil in the first place?
If one falls off their bike when a child staying on a tricycle will not teach one to ride a bicycle.
Same with recoil. If one is scared of a certain recoil how does one learn to handle it by staying away from it?
Time to buck up.

This may become THE best handgun thread of all time. Any real pistolero who's truly into fast and fancy shooting can shoot the empties ejected from his 1911 before they hit the ground. Manly shooters can light stick matches at 100 yards if their gat kicks hard enough. Anyone who hunts birds w/ anything but a pistol is a poozie. LMAO




mike r

You are a real jewel. I bet your family is very proud of you. Rave on raver. You are doing a good job.

Haters hate, droolers drool, ravers rave, the basic laws of nature cannot be denied. I taught my children to shoot their shotguns one handed to prepare them to endure recoil, it's much easier than trying to teach efficient techniques.



mike r

There you go. Did you have them put the butt against their nose? That way it would have helped steady the gun.

No genius, you take the time with low recoiling rounds to build good technique and muscle memory. Then you move up. If you start flinching again you move down a bit and then move back up. Seems to me someones not shooting heavy recoiling rounds much. Obviously never taught many beginners. I never once made a good fighter at our bjj and boxing gym by just kicking the hell out of the newbs and expecting them to man up. Same thing genius. Some handles have some element about them that describes something about the poster. Yours illustrates this clearly.

You don't know the guns I have so leave your cutesy pie sooth saying out of this. Without experiencing the recoil they are afraid of one will never learn to handle it. Deep down you know this but you want to follow lockstep with your chronies to subscribe to crazy ideas so you will be with the in-crowd of people who believe in contrived sayings to sooth the masses.

No you freaking goofball. I can tell what you havent shot or you wouldnt be saying what you are. Of course you have to learn the recoil but once you get the flinch you get your basics back and rebuild muscle memory. I think you onow this but are basically acting like an obstinate rock. Everyone on here that i know has shot alot with heavy recoiling guns disagrees with you as does everyone i know of thats an instructor. A) ya gotta be joking or B) you are a joke. Well no real option C. Thats it, one of the two.

Listen stupid. You don't know the guns I have. I have helped people shoot. One hasn't been that long ago. He shoots a 44 Mag very well considering he hasn't shot handguns much at all. All he needed was someone to tell him the straight on recoil and to not try to salve his ego as many do. Salving egos will not work. It take mental conditioning to handle recoil. Not pussyfooting and jerking people around to protect their fragile little image.

Why are you salving your ego here by being an argumentative liar and im betting you cant shoot any heaving recoiling guns worth a damn. Great you got a grown man to shoot a 44mag. Not heavy recoil and every grown man should be able to shoot one. My 11 year old does and i can promise you he didnt learn to by just skipping the lighter calibers and just thrust a 44 into his hands. Why dont you take a fully loaded 500 jrh and just teach a woman to shoot it. Hell, why dont you learn to shoot it yourself first.

Ive got two S&W 500's Why piddle with something less powerful. That's not all Ive got either.

My ego doesn't need to be salved. It seems like your does. Or you wouldn't want to be arguing with me on something like this.

X-frames? At 4 1/2-lbs with a muzzle brake, they don’t kick nearly as much as my .500 JRHs. Oh and I have both and the heft of the X-frame mitigates the recoil significantly. You shoot anything meaningful with yours or are you a paper puncher?

I don't think you want to drag yourself into this stupid situation. If you do I am disappointed in your intelligence and your self worth.

I would hate to disappoint you...

You’re arguing with someone I know very well and one of the most accomplished big-game handgun hunters I know.

He is just a liar and probably cant shoot them well. He actually thinks im chasing an ego trip rather than clearing up pathetically horrible advice he has been dosing outwhich will be detrimental to 99% new shooters out there all the while chasing his own ego trip with all his blah blah blah im tough just shoot big guns from day one, i do im tough, and a liar.


Notice he went right to what big bore noobs think are the hardest shooting and biggest kickers. Liar

I am here stupid. I am retired and can keep this going if you want to. It is up to you.

I have taught many young handgun hunters how to shoot big bores that kick harder than what you think is heavy recoiling, well, and on dangerous game. None of it is what you have espoused.

I just do what Sagebrush Mc. tells to do. He is a real life operator/gunslinger.

Yes he is remington6mm and i bet he doesnt agree. Glockdoofus, glad you are retired, you should be.

thanks stupid.

Keep going with bad advice. Your lack of skills show through your words. Soon everyone will clearly see your lack of knowledge.

Lets make everyone a crack shot with their 308’s and just line em up with light ruger no.1’s in 460 weatherby. That’ll learn em. Sage advice!

As I said keep steering this into the ditch.. I am here. You don't know who I am. Or my knowledge. You just think you do because I am the way I am on here. Just think about it. Am I really as dumb as I act like I am or not. The world id a stage and we are all actors. Paraphrasing an old saying. This is our stage.

So you are admitting you are acting stupid, and its just a cover for your true skills?

Not admitting anything. Just remember If you responding right? What does that say about you?

Is that what you wear to Walmart and on vacation? How about Mardi Gras, in super close contact with a million people, a very substantial minority of whom are drunk? Look, I respect all you people who enjoy shooting big bore handguns, and who hunt with them. But, you folks are in rarefied air. What are the chances that the average beginner is going to aspire to your loftiness? There is absolutely no need to start someone off at that point on the spectrum, unless some interest already has been expressed. What I usually see at the range is some guy who can't shoot letting his accompanying female shoot some monster gun that scares the hell out of her. I never offer it, but those women usually need relationship advice more than shooting advice.

Exactly but he lying so it doesnt matter now.

Evidently it says i am good at spotting a liar.

No I don't carry one to Wal Mart. I generally switch between a Glock M30 and a Glock M27. One of those hard kicking 40 S&W calibers. Have carried a Smith M69 2.75 incher.
Most people cannot shoot ANY handgun well. If you ever watch people shoot you know this. Even with a 22 RF most don't. I have seem enough shoot to know what I am talking about regardless what others think.
The number one problem is most think they know what they are doing and until someone or something turns on the "LIGHT" for them they will remain in a state of mesmerizing themselves.
Just being direct and not mamby pamby.
Being a member of a range since the late 60's have taught me a lot about people.

Keep being stupid. You are in the same boat riding with me. The stupid boat. SOOOOOOOOOO.

huh. Weak man. Weak

You Just give bad advice. No way around it.

My advice is not bad. It is just straight forward. No mamby pamby crap. Recoil is handled mentally and nothing else.

🙄 more proof. Its why i keep responding. You are like a suspect saying “i did it!”. No amount of your 60’s range experience can change that. Then again, alot of mushrooms were eaten in the 60’s.

What you eat has nothing to do with me. Ive seen what Ive seen. That is what I base my belief on. Not some mamby pamby junk that many pander. Mentallity over recoil. Nothing more nothing less.

I have to wonder how many kids 'Doofus has raised, how many dogs he has trained, how many horses he has trained?

Is 'Doofus one of those guys who calls his dog and then kicks the dog in the gut when he sits at heel because the dog was too slow to suit the 'Doofus. And then shoots the dog a week later because he will not come at all. And blames it all on the "stupid dog".

I have seen a few of these people in real life. And it is a similar thought process to curing a flinch by inducing more of the pain which produced the flinch in the first place.

Man, it is basic Psyche 101. Positive reinforcement vs negative reinforcement. The analogy of the baseball bat upside the head is not nearly as far off base as 'Doofus would believe.

Pain hurts some people. If you want to teach a person to endure a painful experience, you work up to it slowly.

Listen. I love animals. Our dogs are family. You r stupid assinine comment on how I treat an animal is something a piece of trash would make in my opinion. I have unconditional love for our pets. I show positibe reinforcement when it come to advice just not in a mamby pamby way.
If one dont want to hear it they can move on.
Handling recoil is mental.

You got the mamby pamby down pat, as much as you are familiar with the term.

If by "handling", you mean ignoring the discomfort and working through it, I agree. But to me, "handling" includes actually shooting well, and at speed. In that regard, with heavy recoiling guns (especially handguns), it is definitely more than mental for some people.

What a non-shooting dumb fugk you are.

It's more than mental for EVERYONE.

The only thing that changes are people's respective threshold. You shoot full house schit you will get wore down. It's just a matter of when.

doofus?

And individual hand strength is a limitation from the start.

The twins have spoken. It is obvious that both these posers are twins and their mom must have dropped them off the changing table more than once when they were small...

Recoil never bothered me. I was a kid and borrowed a side by side Ithaca to hunt rabbits. For fun I would yank both triggers to spin a circle. I had to quit when the forearm came off and the barrels hit the ground. I was 14 when I got my model 27 S&W. At 16 I got my Mark IV .300 Weatherby. I bought my flat top Ruger .44 in 1956 and shot the 429421 with 22 gr of 2400. I put silver inlays in the front sight for distance but to break rocks at 600+ yards on the RR bank took most of the barrel above the rear sight. I put masking tape on the barrel. I have owned 5 S&W 29's. I did shoot a 2-1/2" group at 500 yards with my BFR in 45-70. Had to aim 26 to 30' at a tree limb to hit steel.
My favorite guns to shoot today are the .475 and .500 JRH BFR's. Joe up town was here and I got him to shoot it twice and he hit paper. He kept looking at his hand after. John was here and both John and I shot less then 1/2" groups. I made the 440 gr mold for the .500 and it did a one hole group from Whitworths JRH at 50 yards. Joe says a revolver was not made for distance and was never made for hunting. Maybe you should ask Whitworth and JWP about THAT. To see Whitworth take little water bottles off hand from a tree stand at 100+ yards might change how you think. Whit was here when I shot an empty paint spray can at 200 yards with my 45-70 BFR from Creedmore.
Most recoil problems come from guys buying real short barrels and super light revolvers and yes they sting like mad. I have shot many .357 revolvers that are worse then the .500. My friend has a license and got me the .475, came to shoot and did not wear a cap for the sun. I held a cardboard to shade him and he hollered. He split his head wide open and got a shiner you would not believe. He said he likes to hold his guns loose. My fault for not instructing him. His comment was "I don't like your guns."
But if you think shooting a .22 will cure a flinch, forget it. When you get a beast in your hand you will be jello. I shot with the Cleveland police and seen them cry with .38 specials. I touched off my .44 mag and all the cops stepped back to see what in the world went off.
My neighbor is an air marshal and I would not want to be on a plane if he shot. .357 Sig. Joe, the marshal and the fireman down the road takes that "stance." 7 yards and can't hit a thing. Lean with a hunchback and it looks like they will fall on their face. Eyeballs like footballs if I hold my gun out to them
True I have run down unsafe practices but never the man. Safety is first and I don't care what you call me or say so if you told anyone to do wrong maybe you should stop and think. I only explain what not to do. You DO NOT put 25 gr of 296 behind a 320 gr bullet in a .44. Yet it is posted.
Maybe some of you should learn what a revolver can do.

You are more awesome than god.....

Whitworth is one of the best shots with big bores I ever seen and has hunted with me and we shot many deer. We did argue over things once in a while but the worst was about primers. He is a good man and so is JWP. I have apologized even if I was correct. My stance is you do NOT need a mag primer in a .44 or a LP in the ACP.
NO you do not shoot deer with a .25 ACP or a .380 and a .357 is iffy unless the proper bullet is used. You do not shoot deer with a .22 unless between the eyes. I have taken many deer in PA with bumps against the chest wall, when cut a .22 bullet fell out. I thought cancer. Then 4 deer with 6" of arrow in the chest that healed up. I am afraid to stick my hands in deer now. Darn, even the wrong arrow will lose deer. Today it is speed with toothpicks.
I have killed deer to over 100 yards with revolvers but there is a limit since energy is lost even if you can hit at 600 yards. You must have energy placed and a hole is not enough. Even if you can hit a pop can at 200 or more, you never shoot an animal that far. Varmints is OK but big game is not. The bullet runs out of steam. I much prefer 20 yards or less.

I don't agree with that entirely. I used to but not anymore.

I believe shooter fatigue is 100% mental.

Can we see pictures of all your Expert badges?

Great about how not to teach. Nice loose hold with a cannon. LET IT ROLL!
Some here are milk toast shooters. I have had ladies here that can shoot anything. Instruction is what you do. Never hand anyone a huge gun without instruction. If a person is not strong enough in your opinion, don't do it. There is always a limit. I advocate large to start but you never want to inflict pain or fear. Some men are wimps with any gun but woman are tough as nails if taught. They are like clay to form. If you fear any gun don't stick it in a girls hands. Done right she will make you look sick. Just why would you put anyone in danger like that? It is just plain sick.

I believe the correct term is 'mamby-pamby'. C'mon, man, try to be more like doofus......

I'm thinking she can shoot perfect scores with it, right after she picks it up on the ground each time.

Makes no sense to argue. The huge S&W has not much to write home about. I would say the .475 has more and a Freedom sucks. The BFR has some torque but is much better to shoot. The BFR has perfect dimensions and a long enough cylinder. A Freedom is a cobbled up POS but I never met one that hurt me either. The .454 is no more then a .44. They can be shot as good as it gets but will never out shoot a BFR or Ruger or last as long.
Of all the .500's I rate the JRH best of the best with .500 S&W brass shortened while the .500 Linebaugh needs special and a larger bullet. I do not like it and it is not better. I made a mold for it and can't use it for anything else.

I made the .500 Linebough mold for Marko and want him to take it free. But hate comes to play and when I see your hate it hurts. What the hell is wrong with some of you?

Let's back up a couple pages. 40 S&W vs revolvers.

My Son in Law came out with a brand new Springfield Xd mod 2 3 inch in 40. It stings my hand, but I can shoot it.

Son in law is encouraging his young wife to shoot it. ( my daughter) She has never fired a handgun in her life.

She pulls the trigger on the Xd one time. Yells ow that hurts, and throws the piece down.

Wow, what a great way to introduce someone to the shooting sports. Teach them the entire deal is pain and misery.

It took me quite a while that day to get her to shoot again. But after watching her 9 year old son and 9 year old nephew each shoot a couple cylinders through my 327s she finally agreed to try it.

Then she was grinning like a kid as she slapped steel at 20 yds with a 4 5/8" single seven and a 4 inch SP 101. The load? 78 gr lasercast over 3 gr Universal.

Once she learns shooting can be fun, then we can bump up the load levels. And she will then be motivated to learn how to handle the heavier stuff.

She would have never even tried to learn if all she had to work with was her husband's 40.

But, now I see I have been doing it all wrong. The next new shooter who comes along, I will stuff my 26 oz Taurus Titanium Tracker full of 41 magnum 210 gr over 25 gr of H110.

I will just tell them, "You mamby, pamby, puzzy, snowflake. Wipe the tears out of your eyes and pull that trigger." And then hope the next round is not aimed at my head.

Grip strength is a thing. It can be measured, and it makes a difference in how well one can control recoil. It should be obvious that someone who has physical difficulty controlling recoil will not like shooting handguns that exceed a certain recoil level, and may even lack the ability to make rapid and well aimed follow-up shots. I have observed many people of small stature, especially women and children, who lack the grip strength required to control heavy recoil but learn quickly to shoot milder handguns well.

Does anybody bother to measure a potential new shooter's grip strength before choosing a gun and load to start with? I'd bet damned few. It might be obvious with a lot of people, but I, for one, have been fooled by appeareance. Not many folks these days grow up using their hands for much more intense than running a keyboard. You can certainly train that out in most cases, but not necessarily in minutes.

One of the skills necessary to become proficient with a handgun, and many say the most important, is the ability to call your shot. In the instant the handgun fires you KNOW based on the sight picture where the bullet will strike the target. At some level, even subconsciously, a good shooter calls almost every shot. An inexperienced shooter will fire five rounds at the target and not have clue where the bullets went. Learning to call your shot is one of the main goals of dry firing - it's just you and the sights and the trigger. Clacking away while watching TV has its merits to learn a trigger break, but that is unique to that trigger. Dry firing with the sights incorporates trigger skills, but also the universal skill of calling your shot.

Dry firing rolls into live firing. The fewer distractions a new shooter has, such as muzzle blast and recoil, the easier it will be to incorporate dry firing skills into live firing skills. Intentionally adding recoil and muzzle blast distractions into that process with a new shooter is idiotic.

Hell here i thought Elmer Keith died 35 plus yrs ago..

Hallelujah, Hallelujah.

Mind over recoil. That's where its at.

Started my kids off with a Beretta Model 21. When they had that down and wanted something "bigger" it was single action .22 mag.

Then up a 6" Colt King Cobra loaded with .38 spl loaded with 148 wad cutters and 2.6 grains of Accurate #2 @ about 600 fps.
Once they mastered that, I slowly increased at their own pace and request up to fully charged .357 loads..

My youngest was deathly afraid to shoot a .223, but would shoot a single shot .410 3" mag all day long. Once she tried the .223, she
wondered why she had been so fearful of it.

My children love to shoot. Their favorite pistols are model 1911 .45 acp's

Let people move at their own pace and comfort levels instead of thinking that it's funny to give an 8 year old a .30-06 with 180 grain loads.
Only idiots do that kind of stuff to people.

"My youngest was deathly afraid to shoot a .223, but would shoot a single shot .410 3" mag all day long. Once she tried the .223, she
wondered why she had been so fearful of it."

It is in the mind.

How would you know when you don’t have one...

I have enough mind to know it is mind over recoil. More than most have,

I have known a few folks who could be accurately described as numb from the neck up.

Much like a pit bull, unaware of pain and injury, until the Dr looks at an X-ray and asks "When did you break THAT bone?"

Uh, duh, I don't know.

I bet "mind over recoil" is easy for them.

But pain hurts most people.

You can't shoot.

You are like the other mental giants. You are right I cant shoot. I cause the gun to shoot. So there MG you are right I cant shoot and neither do the rest of you. What do you do to shoot hold the cartridge in your teeth and have your someone hit you in the back of the head with a ball bat to fire the cartridge? Do you have to poke your eyes back in their sockets because the bat or of the cartridge firing?
Do you clean your drawers each shot or do you wait till you shoot several rounds before you hose yourself off? Or do you stick the cartridge up your rectum like a suppository and have your boyfriend hit it with a ball peen hammer so the bullet comes out of your mouth?
So you shoot right?

Boy that is genius there for sure. Pain is hurt and Hurt is pain. If hurt isn't pain it sure wouldn't be called pain. One needs to be a neurologist to figure that out. Some goofball like me cant. I wish I was a mental giant too but alas if not for the dumb rectums like me you Mental Giants wouldn't know you are mental giants. So idiots like me serves a purpose to bolster the egos of the mental giants.

Babble to your heart's content.

You still can't shoot.

Love those 100yd targets you post though. LMAO.

Hey I said I cant shoot the gun does. What else do you want me to say? That an alien shoots them. Okay I will an alien shot my 44 Mags today. There you go Doofus II. I knew you wanted a title like I have. Doofus II alias Deprave.

Yeah dry fire for years and once a cartridge is in the gun and you know it is going to kick and hurt. Just where are you? OH yeah you can pull the trigger. WOW, Holly junk. I refuse to use cuss words or to call anyone bad but you are wrong. If you think dry firing can prepare you for a .500 you live with steel panties on. My favorite time was when a friend had a stick on the tripod so when his friend flinched he would take the stick to him. You do not flinch shooting 200 meters with a revolver or any gun.
Joe flinches so bad with a rifle from the bench with factory loads it is scary so he loads so light recoil is like a .22. Why have a .444 and 30-06 if you can't shoot it? He does nothing but brag about how easy they shoot. I am sick or hearing "YOU KNOW" but he is from Jersey. I don't think any two words does not have "YOU KNOW" between them.

Says the only living person retarded enough to egg the bore of a Freedom Arms. One that didn't belong to him at that. Baker said he wouldn't have believed it if he hadn't seen it. Their reputation speaks for itself.......and so does yours.

You know, no one here gives a rodent's heinie about your friend Joe. Clearly you have some obsession with him, which has nothing to do with anyone here or the subject of handguns for beginners. He's your problem, not ours. And his problems are his own.

I have no ego, just facts. Facts that help with all I can but to be resisted by some internet gurus and a keyboard. A keyboard has much recoil. Buy a .500 and shoot 7 yards but it sure kicks so you want a load of Bullseye. I have a slingshot to sell. Don't buy a big gun to be macho. All you do is stick it out to someone to show you are a big man but you really can't shoot the thing. Most guns are safe queens.

He shows what most of you say. He has fear of anything. He is a perfect fit. Just what do you read at every sight? Need a light load will be first.
But let me go on with fun. Joe gets lost in a second and hates to hunt the afternoon because it will get dark. I drop him at his stand and he goes the other direction so I say "Where the hell are you going?" His stand has blaze orange ribbons and those flags to show distance. I never get lost and he is so I say THAT WAY. I can be in pitch black and walk out.
Joe is a perfect example of some of you. He fits with some of you. He hates big revolvers but after shooting mine he does better with his toys. He bought a chevy truck and paid more for wind up windows so I have to wind the window down when he smokes. My range is full of butts. He smokes half and tosses it. Yes I see him with some of you. He drives many miles to get 100 primers. I tell him to buy 1000 and he will not, costs too much, dumb ass, you spent more for gas for 100.
OH YEAH you are here.
Hey FreeMe, can I call you Joe?

Sorry How do you egg a bore with a pure lead slug? Baker said I must have left some lead in the bore but NOT, it was cleaned. Then it took three barrel replacements to get a .357" bore. Don't give me [bleep] that you know nothing about. The gun was put on consignment cheap and never sold. Nobody want's the gun. Baker said you can't shoot lead bullets and then a jacketed. WOW since all of you say to clean lead out with jacketed. I do not do that but it will not ruin a barrel.

I thought you were the one who claimed to never resort to name calling.

No, you may call me Sir. Joe is your boy, and you seem to revel in that. It obviously makes you feel better about yourself, having him around. Run with that jack. It suits you.

I don't know Jim, how the hell do you egg a bore??? Yeah, Dick Casull hotrodded the .45Colt beginning in the 1950's. He built guns to withstand a 260gr at 2000fps before the advent of H110 and then designed the FA83 from the ground up around the 65,000psi .454 cartridge that bears his name. Arguably the finest built revolver in existence. But you, dipshit retired baggage handler and cheap whiskey connoisseur from Podunk, West Virginia, you know better.

What I know, I got from Baker. The other side of the story is nothing like yours.

yeah I know all about the junk .454 that was fit so tight it egged the cone and ate into the rifling. Cylinders so short special bullets were made.You pay big bucks and defend the expenditure. Feel good with no cylinder movement.
You had to be across the room when Baker screamed at my friend so everyone heard him on the phone. He blamed me for ruining a barrel with lead. When you push a hammer and see the firing pin go out with a hammer block or transfer bar, something is wrong. Suck it up. you are wrong.

Bullshit does not get bleeped here... Or is that from a German bull?

What happened to your promise on 10-13-18 in the Gunsmithing forum?

I do not remember but I fixed the freedom .454 with some play in the cylinder and I cut the cone. Would you show what I said.

I think he means this.....




https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ice-on-repairing-this-crack#Post13202543

Yup, that is it...

He's hoping y'all will beg him to stay.

Not gonna happen, bfrshooter and glockdoofus hopefully will expell some of their angst on their honeymoon coming soon.

Why Rick allows these forum specific trolls is beyond me.

Maybe just laziness on his part.

We do it to ourselves when we reply, just like on the Hunter's Campfire. I plead guilty to a few counts of that.

Its like messing with toothless chihuahuas. Can be annoying but mostly just fun.

I think we need a rule that once someone posts a "goodbye cruel world", he should be permanently blocked.

And at theend of the day, the back and forth allows their ignorance to shine out like the rays of the sun. Then any new members looking for decent information and advice know not to listen to guys like bfrshooter and glockdoofus. Its kind of an obligation.

There are plenty of them on the Handguns forum these days. Well, at least till early March rolls around, and then the Hunter's Campfire gets busy for a few weeks!

Barrel of fun you guys are.

yes most handgun shooters have a finger in the mouth and one up the butt and play switch. I suppose the best is about the .25 ACP and the power it has. Thousands of posts so far. Good for deer and elk. Bear protection.
Tradmark has never made a handgun shoot so nobody can.

What gibberish are you talking? Makes no sense. I said clearly everyone makes a fa83 454 shoot except you! Who cant shoot? You dont shoot anything larger than deer so id just be quiet or the nursing home will come pick you up.

Seems as if my post was about glue to fix a gun.Talk about off topic. The language used by CraigC and Tradmark should not be tolerated anywhere. The words I have for you will never be posted. If you are a Mod, remove these people.

Who is everyone? How many load for it and just buy factory loads? Gun writers get all free. The amount free is astounding to just advertise. Writers will suck a butt out of an elephant to have a name. Truth is another thing but if a company sends you a free gun, what do you do? Your mouth can't open wide enough.
Do you have a Freedom or are you sucking at the rear tit?

You just said i have never made a handgun shoot. You expect that to get a good response?!?! You have run whitworth thru the mud at numerous sights. You have made unfounded accusations against numerous manufacturers. The only guy that will run around and shoot and hint with you had sustained numerous attacks on him here whether he knows it or not. You just dont have any self awareness. This isnt a mean thing, just a real factual thing.

What? Im not a writer. I buy every gun i own which is considerable. I have 4 fa83 454’s and 10 454’s overall. Seriously dont respond if you are drinking already. It doesnt ever come out right.

Pretty clear indication you know much less than you think you do. Which gun company sends out the free ones?

Haha. I need to find out!!

It is because you are not a writer and just a sad sack like me. Get published and you get famous even if you know nothing.

Laughing out frigging loud!

Jim must be an aspiring comedian. He's probably feeling beat up enough for the whiskey/schizophrenia to kick in and his tactics change to playing the victim.

No one is the sad sack that you are. No one. Writers don't get free guns. They have to pay for them if they want to keep them.

Yup. Purely mental.

Plus recoil, grip strength, and recoil.

What does your therapist say about your hardon for writers?

Other than inaccuracy, that is.

Closely scrutinize her strong hand letting go of the revolver. The gun didn't tear loose from her grip. It scared her poopless and she turned loose.

How long on the pot does it take you to finish a gun rag? Did you learn a single thing? Not good paper to wipe with either.

Anyone seen Big Stick? Seems like a thread he’d be poking in on to set yous all straight....

Handgun for beginners. Start on something fun, move them up as they get comfortable with grip, trigger, and learning how to acquire the front sight. Success is them seeing their improvement on the target.

Keep it simple at first. They’ll be the ones who will determine how badass they want to be with a handgun, not us.

Love the old timers...Laffin 😎

What difference does it make if she is not planning to go hunt an Alaskan monster bear? She's better off with anything she can handle, whatever that is.

Who said it did? Tell me that. I didn't say it.

Someone needs their junk punched for letting the little gal shoot that thing.

That is true. You did not say it . But, it motivated you enough to type a post for a reason. What was your reason? To point out your keen powers of observation? Because you have too much free time so just wanted to waste time throwing some random thought out on the Internet? Please enlighten us with the context so we can fully understand your inner wisdom.

First off I do have the time. My powers of observation isn't keen but I am smart enough to understand the obvious. Some are not. My wisdom, what there is of it, has been gathered for many years. In the school of hard knocks by Ole Professor Experience. As per your signature line,
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln. Should add READ too.

So, basically, there is no context, just random BS floating out into cyberspace.

No more BS than is already on here. BS is BS is BS whether it is from me, you or anyone else on here.
So I put on my proverbial hip boots and wade through it too.

Well, the high road is to avoid throwing out more rather than embracing it. Have a nice day!

+1

Glockdoofus cant shoot.

How many times do I have to explain it to you THE GUN SHOOTS I DO NOT. Do you have a comprehension problem deprave? I am only the operator of the shooting machine. Oh, I get it you shoot your mouth. You cant operate a gun.

Just un-ignored glockdoofus, for a sec.

Nothing new.

LMAO.

Nothing new from any of you so what?

It just means we all realize who and what you are so nothing more to say unless you just want prove you know even less than we already deduce.

You are farting again. Gas-X will help that problem Also cut down on the beans too. Your fingers are typing but you have nothing to say. How does it feel to be full of nothingness and to be able to express nothingness by typing it?

It feels good! Then again, whenever i want to make a point i can show something ive actually shot just for validities sake.

You are something alright. You are a man's man. you are the stuff legends are made of. No one before, during or in the future will be like you. When you were made the mold was broken. You have shot, you shoot and you will shoot. You have shown, you show and you will show. you are the best you will be the best. Everyone pales when you are around. You make the bleakest day a virtual reward for all of us. You validate the most valid parts of our lives. Thank you for your continued effort to lead, guide and educate all you have, will and in the future come into contact with.

Well my eldest son is a better shot than me, and you still cant shoot.

Well you and your son prove that just because one can roll turds in powdered sugar doesn't make them jelly donuts.

Glockdoofus, i’lll bet if my eldest came on here describing his opinions as a law enforcement officer you would respond in kind. Hell you would probably have feelings of being less than if my 21yo daughter started debating with you about hunting experience. Why, cuz you havent done anything. You say you are retired but you act like a millenial.

Just do me a favor and don't stop too quick because it will be painful for you to have to have their heads removed from your behind.

Im also not surprised you evidently have experience with turds and powdered sugar.

Well we all knew you had no real experience with guns. Now we know what you have been doing with your time. I bet you have a prius and go by “dirty mike and the boys”.

You are correct. Ive been around enough people like you to recognize a turd looking for a sack of powdered sugar to know. My observation skills are honed to a fine edge by seeing, being around and hearing them talk. That is how they pull the wool over peoples eyes to get to be the mini gods that some come to be. Cultivate a method for covering the real stench and appearance of how they are.

So besides slinging dirt back and forth, of which i habe no problem with, do you have a lick of quantifiable experience with anything handgun related? Ever shot anything or won anything to give you an ounce of credibility?

If you call being stupid enough to keep on with me I have a ton of experience.

still cant shoot.

With turds or being stupid? Cuz i know its not lots of firearms experience. Or you wouldnt say what you say.

Define shoot. As I have told another on here the gun shoots. I just operate it so you aren't going to trip me up on that.

I got my first 22 rifle when I was eleven. I am 66 now. Still have the Winchester 22. Plus maybe a couple more guns over the years. Still don't know how to load them so I just look at them. Now are you satisfied Powdered sugar man?

Hey Powdered Sugar I am going to bed. I have to get my rest so I be more of a nothing tomorrow. Maybe if I live long enough I will finish off the box of Remington 22 ammo my parents got me when they got me that 22 rifle 55 years ago. I have kept it clean though. Not having fired it much.
I think it will last me till I die. I still keep my range membership though and I still go to the gun shop hoping some of the experience of others will have a profound effect on me just being around the ones who do something and shoot. I try not be obvious as I snoop and listen to their experiences and live vicariously through others. If they notice me listening I turn and fidget and pretend I am not listening to them. I have learned by listening to others on how to learn to handle the recoil of that 22 by dropping down to a BB gun and practicing with it. It works pretty good doing that. Sometimes I forget and shut my eyes and push forward with my whole body as I jerk the trigger in anticipation of the recoil. Then I drop back to the BB gun for a couple months, take therapy for a year or two and go through hypnosis to overcome my fear. If I still have problems I go seclude myself until I can come back into the public and pretend some more.

Well quite frankly, you only get this response because you gave bad and arguably dangerous advice on this thread.

Sweet dreams dirty mike.

Thank you Powdered Sugar.

How much more proof do you need?

Honestly, get the groups below 6” and we can talk. Do that at 200 and youre getting close. Really

Good shooting but what you could do should you just get a nice low recoiling 357 or 41 and really really get accurate is where its at. Then move up. Ive done it with all my kids and friends of mine. None of the way we accomplish that is by slamming a huge recoiling gun into their hand and make them just deal with it.

YADA YADA YADA BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

What about getting a .44 Special?

Would be a good choice or any of the above big bore loaded with hs6 or titegroup.

Thank you Tradmark.

Its funny this forum, kind of like that movie the burbs, a slow motion train wreck. Wonder what gun Ross Seyfried would have recommended for beginners?

I cant operate the gun well anymore. My age is beginning to take its toll on me. My heath is still good but standing still is a problem At one time I shot some fairly powerful calibers. Not any more. Well I take that back, I will once in a great while. I weave and bobble too much now.
But that is life or so "They" say it is.

I never could shoot a pistol for chit, so I have nothing to lose in the shooting department. I did discover something today, the SW N frame and I seem less compatible than the Ruger SRH, I know that dry firing both pistols side by side will tell you nothing, however the sight alignment changes less for me with the Ruger trigger than the N frame trigger. Don’t mean a thing of course just an idle and worthless observation by an inept person that has fired a gun once or twice.

This was posted early in the thread, the poster should have waited a bit to get the full load of BS

B. Brilliant
S. Stuff

will this make me flinch? What about a titanium 38 special shooting +P 158 lead slugs? What about one of those 329PD 44 magnums?

Can't say enough good about the SW Shield EZ .380. And I don't like .380.

Note that in my view, the PMR 30 *would be* an excellent beginner gun *but-for* the very light trigger. With that trigger, though, it is not a beginner gun.

For beginners with small hands, the Taurus 94 9-shot .22lr is a good choice at a reasonable price. But pretty much any rimfire revolver would be good.

The Walther .380 is known as being easy to rack, IIRC.

The old tip-up Berettas on the used market are good for those with weak hands, but they are expensive now.

A full-sized all-steel 9mm like a CZ 75 or BHP is a fine beginner pistol.

A single shot pistol like a T/C contender, Savage Striker, or XP100 is a good handgun platform to teach basics on. Anything light-recoiling.

The recoil of a 380 is too heavy for me. I dont know what to do about it.

Finally, you leave a believable post!

Thank you. Most only want posts that reinforces their beliefs so I did that for everyone.

Wonderful! Your humility is only exceeded by your reasons for being so...

I try to be humble. Humble is my middle name. I practice humbleness in all aspects of my life. Trying to
be kindly humble is my life's goal.

I think you are a humble person. I also think that many people that post on here have no idea who other people are, what they have done, or what they shoot.

Thanks Jimmy. I'm not much compared to the He Men on here.

LOL. That was a good one.

You never could.

You suck.

Thank you. Your praise is a great thing. When someone in as lofty position as the Great Deprave is makes one want to be the best as they can be. I am sure you have tor-mentored many in your life. Many have been propelled into greatness by your concern and fortrightness. Giving concerned coaching and being ever vigilant in your giving nature either in word or deed.
Again thank you for your concern and fortrightness.