Looking for feedback on either my shooting or my rifle.

It's a Tikka Stainless Lite in 6.5 Creedmoor, SWFA 6X scope. 100 yard groups, factory ammo off bags. I'm going to check the stock bolt torque next.

Results are about typical. The best 10 shot group I got out of the rifle so far is the pic labeled ELDX. Other groups with that ammo has not been quite that good, but similar.

Until you've checked the torque on the action screws, made sure the scope mounts are tight, and set the trigger to 3 to 3-1/2 lbs I'd wait to pass judgement.


If all that is squared away, get some Black Hills 143 ELD-X ammo and shoot a group with that. If it doesn't shoot that well, then disappointment is in order.

is it bouncing around on the bags?

let some one else shoot it

I know a bunch of the guys here don’t have an issue with it, but I can’t shoot good groups with a 6x. I can’t always tell if I’m holding in exactly the same spot every time. Maybe a larger aiming point would help.

The shape of what you're aiming at matters, as well as the size. With appropriate targets it's no biggie to shoot well below MOA with even 4x.

A good general purpose target that works with a lot of reticles/magnifications is a large open diamond. Targets made to suit specific reticle/magnification/distance combinations are even better.

I shoot groups of about the size you got with the ELDXs, or maybe 1/2" larger with my 6.5. at 100 yards. I use 160 grain Round Nose bullets.
But mine is a short barreled 1903 Mannlicher with iron sights.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on [bleep]

So yeah, I'd be a bit disappointed with those groups from that rifle using that scope.

It may be that something is loose, adjusted wrong, maybe a bummer scope, or perhaps the loads you tried are some the rifle just doesn't "like". But with the "tool-set" you described, I'd want better.

With diamond shaped targets I regularly shoot sub MOA at 100 with a 2.5x scope. When my eyes were better I regularly shot sub MOA at 100 with iron {aperture} sights.

Check scope mounts.

Take the action off the stock.

Adjust trigger to 2 lbs.

Put the action back on, being careful to line up the slot in the receiver with the recoil lug.

Torque the action screws to 45 in/lbs

Try again.




P

Got a recommendation of the target I should try?

if all the above check out then maybe your front rest was loose,happened to me and opened groups up like you show but i had an aha moment and groups shrunk to 1/2",then move on to your hold whilst on the front rest. try laying your hand or wrist draped over the front ring and see what shakes out. i prefer the benchrest hold too with my non trigger/support hand holding the rear rest or some such but this hold is not particularly great for light rifles as they DO bounce a bit on recoil sometimes.
good luck,
Big Ed

The scope mounts are tight and have nail polish on the screws for indication of something getting loose.

Will do.

Will do.

Will do.

Will do.

Thanks.... and thanks for the other replies.

I don't blame you for chasing all the accuracy you can get. Tikkas are supposed to be hammers. I'd check rings (seen new ones crack), screws, and stock torque. Prolly take a peek at the barrel channel clearance.

All that said, shots 1-5 of the ELDX ammo look to be right at MOA. It looks like it's trying but it's walking a bit after it heats up, JMHO.

I did read the memo that 5 shot groups are useless and now we're up to 10 for lightweight big game rifles, but I've yet to get the urge to shoot something 9 more times after it's already on the ground when 4 more will typically do the trick.............

Rifle was on bags.... right hand on trigger, left hand on toe bag. I'll have to look at this.

I’ve seen a few Tikkas have wandering zeros...

I’ve never seen one shoot worse after bedding the lug permanently into the stock.... but I’ve seen several shoot better, and maintain zero better.

I have a different view, as usual. A couple of years ago, I bought two T3X Lites in .308, one blued and one stainless. I mounted 6x scopes on them. I replaced the bottom plastic with aftermarket bottom metal. I was disappointed in the results from what I expected from 5 shot groups. The barrels heated up quickly. In a addition to the barrel heating, I found shooting the lightweight rifle a challenge. I sold one and got a stainless T3X CTR.

I put the CTR in a GRS Berserk stock and mounted a 6x scope, then took it to the range. From the get go, the CTR will put 5 shots into a group under an inch. It just sits there and does not move around. If I do my part, it will shoot half inch groups. If I don't, it shoots 3/4 inch groups. It will get a McMillan Game Warden stock with sniper fill.

I then decided to give the T3x Lite another try. I reassembled it with the factory plastic bottom metal and took it to the range last weekend. The factory guarantee is for 3 shots MOA at 100 yards. I stuck to 3 shot groups and waited for the barrel to cool down between groups. It was windy and the rifle was just as light as before. What I found was that if I watched the wind carefully and took care with each shot, the T3x Lite will put 3 shots into under an inch at 100 yards. I am the determining factor, not the rifle. This is easily sufficient for my hunting needs and I will probably put a McMillan Compact stock on it and stay away from the Edge lightweight construction.

My conclusion is that light rifles are harder to shoot than heavier rifles, that light barrels warm up more quickly than heavier barrels, that stiffer barrels shoot better and that I am the most important variable. This is old news. I don't think that I can expect any changes to these variables simply by purchasing one manufacturer over another.

http://www.targetz.com/targetzlib/10058.pdf

http://www.targetz.com/targetzlib/10070.pdf

http://www.stormtactical.com/stu/MOA_targets.pdf (10/62 is a large open diamond)

http://www.ada.ru/guns/targets/200m_1moa.pdf

Yes.

I've been disappointed in my new tikka 3 times now.

Here's how my T3X shoots factory 143's.......

Yep! I’d practice more, or blame a buddy if I shot like that.

This.^^^

I wouldn't settle on it but I love tinkering. I have a few Tikkas....only one gave me fits and that was due to cracked filling/pillar area on a McM Edge that bedding quickly fixed.

Yeah i would try it with another scope with more magnification, at least 9 or 10 power, I never could shoot tight groups with a low power scope.....Hb

Is your 6 creed bedded?

After this I’m immediately suspicious of rings if a tikka isn’t shooting well

I sure wish you'd post a pic of your lug bedding job if you don't mind. I'm with you.....can't hurt.

Somebody put a Tikka sticker on your Remington. Try a 3/4” square “dot” to shoot at. I swear there’s nothing better for a 6X. IMHO.

In the meantime, check all that stuff. You ain’t in Tikkaville yet.

And be sure mount screws aren’t hitting the bolt head.

Seen it....

Just wow! What rings are those? I suspect aluminum bodies. I went with sportsmatch in steel. I did use the pin though.



I'll do that last, but honestly, I can see the dot just fine with the 6x. I'm pretty happy with the image, but if all else fails.

Tikka factory rings

I probably should blame a buddy..... and practice more.

Are they aluminum?


Looks like they are from the posts I've found.

And this

You mean YOUR 6 Creed?

No.... hasn’t shown a need for it.... it’s s fuggin hammer.

I have a few tikkas and always shot them off the bench with a short harris bipod and averaged around 1-1.25” groups. I forgot my bipods last fall and had to use my caldwell bag and the groups suddenly dropped to around .5-.75” in all 3 rifles. I no longer use the bipod when shooting these rifles from the bench and just stick to the caldwell bag and a rear bag as well.

Tikka recoil lug bedding done right.

Thanks Dog.

Try These.

JG, nice shooting, what scope you running. I assume yours is a sporter w/standard round barrel?

I like at least a 10 power, 14 is better for me.

Some actually blame bad groups on the target? SMH

g

Depends on what you bough it for.

If you bought it to shoot itty bitty groups, you might be disappointed shooting groups with a 6x scope at 100 or 200 yds.

If you bought it for a hunting rifle and are going to kill stuff bigger than chipmonks, maybe not.

How many times do you shoot 3,4 or 10 times at a game animal. Usually for me it takes one, sometimes two. Very seldom more.

You did not mention whether you shoot over a chrony to develp an accuracy vs a velocity correlation.

I do, and after I make a choice on the load I will hunt with, I'm particulary concerned with first shot out of a cold barrel that has been fouled in.

One could always take and shoot one round and if he was satisfied that he did his part, wait until the barrel reached ambient temperature, then fire a second round, then do the same, ad nauseum.

Or he could go on three different occasions and shoot the same target at the same distance. That might give you a better indication of what to expect from your "hunting" rifle!

Each target below, 1st shot out of cold barrel before the hunt.













I had an old insurance mentor that had a saying, when you know you know, and you know you know, confidence replaces fear.

ya!

GWB

With crosshairs or duplex or similar reticles, I recommend an X as the aiming mark, preferably one with legs on the X which are tapered. Something like this, although you can make a serviceable aiming mark of similar style with a Sharpie:



It is a great deal easier to hold consistently on the centre with this design than it is to try to hold on the centre of a circle or the corner of a square or diamond, and I've found it perfectly viable to shoot groups under 1 moa even with low-powered scopes. I've shot any number of sub-moa groups with aperture sights too, though with a different aiming mark - having the right aiming mark for the sights makes a big difference.

The other thing that you might try paying attention to is consistency in how you hold the rifle. I've found that holding a light rifle in both hands (ie weak hand on the forend) does have a beneficial effect on accuracy from the bench, as does maintaining consistency of such things as pressure of the buttplate against the shoulder. Make sure your trigger finger doesn't drag on the stock and swivels don't drag on the bags too. That may account for some of the stringing.

Thanks. Standard T3X , 4-12x LRHS.

Fake news! I shoot a 4x4 inch white square with nothing on it at all ranges with cardboard behind. It is like using the natural inclination of the eye to line up the front sight with the peep opening!

I 'borrowed' this pic of JG's target:


[quote=JGRaider




FWIW (?) At 100 yds I 'usually' use these target dots -- 2" dia.

FOR ME - I aim AT 6:00 PM. The whole circle is ABOVE my crosshair. I can tell when the gun goes off if I'm Hi, Lo, R, or L.
I normally use 8 X but have used less.

I don't like aiming at a large square or diamond - because there is so much room for the crosshair to BE IN or cover.
It didn't take me long to see the advantage of 6 O'clock hold.


Try it, you might like it.


Jerry

I’ve got one that strings horizontally a bit. Reloads have tightened it up a bit, but it still string horizontally. I expect that I’ll nail down the issue without too much trouble.

All these sob's will tell you their Tikka's shoot sub moa 10 shot groups all day long and they are the last guys to enter into the moa all day long challenge here. I'm thinking your superlite is doing just fine and probably about typical for 10 shot groups for most superlite tikka rifles. Mine was shooting about like that, until I glass bed it. Then groups shrank to a reasonable size. Keep in mind, your rifle is new and the barrel is still breaking in. You'll start seeing a little better accuracy after 100 rounds down the tube.

The ultimate Paper Tiger has spoken....

Just curious. We're you shooting from a bench, or an improvised device? Not trying to be a smart azz. Just curious. Folks like to start wrenching on rifles,before checking this very important box. Might be easier to address than changing a bunch of things on the rig. Tikkas can be challenging to assemble. Look into that first. Scopes can be a real problem also. But if you aren't shooting from a solid platform,good groups will be hard to come by.

I currently have 3 T3s. I've owned 13 over the years. The worst was an 06. Stainless synthetic. It shot right at MOA. Take a hard look at your bench and technique first.

Not fancy or expensive,but it sure helps sort out accuracy issues.

Just curious, is the 45 in/lb recommended from the factory or is that based on your experience? I was wondering what they should be torqued to.

It's in the manual.

Here’s a clue dumbass. Most people don’t give a dam about your beloved challenge.

While you’re sitting at the bench ejaculating over groups, others are out getting it done with some 3/5 shot groups.

You ever dig up a pic of you with a dead animal?

🥴 those targets are sure tricky.








DUI is the cars fault. 😎

I'll have to count boxes, but that group was after about 80 rounds. I do think there have been quite a few suggestions that are worth looking at.

Concrete bench with sand bags on top. Pretty sturdy/stable.

Some targets just don't produce a good sight picture. It'll definitely make it harder to zero in a rifle.



I appreciate the input from everybody. Lots of good thoughts!

Yep. Some people just have to be smartasses.

I can use a 3/8" dot for a target with my high magnification, fine reticle scopes but it won't make for a good sight picture with a 6x and Leupold heavy duplex.

One of the links I provided should give you a good target for the SWFA 6x you're using.

My favorite aiming target is simply an "x" drawn at right angles with a sharpie on white paper. Size and thickness of the lines can vary with the range being shot and magnification of your scope.

Easy and precise.

👍😎

Not saying it's the shooter but when a tikka rifle with a fixed 6 SWFA won't shoot the shooter is suspect

Trystan

Really?!......🙄......Hb

I don’t shoot “groups” near as well with a 6x.... as I do a 10x or 12x.

Did you try moving the front bag towards the end of the forearm? I’ve seen a few rifles shoot better with the front support about 2” off the front of the forearm.

I’ve never seen a Tikka really care what you shot it off... bipod, front rest, sandbag, ruck, rolled up jacket off the hood of the truck.... whatever.

I tend to not baby them though... and keep a firm grip with the right hand. Often I’ll shoot them left hand atop the scope, holding the rifle down on the rest/bipod/ruck/etc.

Another thing... the 6.5 Creed bucks a lot more than most people think, especially in a lighter gun. Hell, it’s still a 140 at 2800. They kick less than a .270 (but not a lot).... they’re still more stout than a .257 Roberts, and definitely more than any of the 6’s. Shooting them free recoil, left hand on the rear bag, can be tricky and lead to larger groups.

Yep. I usually lay my left hand on the front scope ring. Never had much luck with it at the back bag. Especially if you ever tried squeezing the back bag to fine tune the shot. The only rifle I shot free recoil was a PPC bench rifle. Everything else is controlled.

Agree with this 100%.!!


Roy

Thanks, I will try it out!

You stated this is for a hunting rifle, correct? I agree with this method, since the first shot is the one that counts. I understand shooting groups for consistency in the desired ammo, but 10/5 shot groups shouldn't be much of a consideration for your stated application. Once you have performed some of the suggestions these guys have suggested, try the cold bore method GWB stated above and post your results. For a hunting rifle, I bet you will be quite satisfied.

Get rid of that SWFA and get you a Leupold. Nobody else posted a pic of a 10 round group so how is a cherry picked 3 shot group a fair comparison?Like another poster said I am more interested in where the first bullet goes from a cold barrel.That only applies if you actually hunt,not post pics of 3 shot groups.Funny, I never shot in any competition that used 3 shot groups as a standard.I would be more than happy with that 10 shot group and would use it on any type of a large game hunt.JMHO,Huntz

If you'd be happy, why change the scope?


It's actually been pretty "bullseye" on cold bore shots. I'd still like to get this thing dialed in. The more consistent, the better right?

Because they are fugly.
6X is plenty scope for normal hunting,but I gravitate to something lighter.I do not twirl the dial.I have had good luck with a 6X36 Leupold with LR reticle.Light,strong and once you know where the dots shoot you are good to 500 yards.Too often in the real world you do not have time to do much besides take a reading with your range finder and shoot.If I know were my bullets going to land your only variable is windage.If you have shot enough high power you should be able to read the wind through mirage or plant movement enough to get you a good Kentucky hold off for windage.These are basic shooting skills that will get you lots of game down with one shot, muy pronto.

The first Tikka (a 270) I had wasn't a great shooter until I ran some J&B through the bore and retorqued the action screws. Look for a target with bold horizontal and vertical lines in the center you can line your cross hairs up on. I have some Rangemaxx and Hoppes targets like that.

Here's a link to another good one

https://shop.brownells.com/shooting...msclkid=58e6bbebc92b152cdfade6e6e7d66cd5

Maybe I missed it, but did you Drexel out the speed bumps a few inches behind the front swivel stud?

I have better luck with my Tikkas shooting with a firm grip front and back.

And I may have missed this, too, but did you try different loads? Mayb your rifle just doesn't like that bullet or powder.

No, I have not. I'm going to wait on modifying the stock. I've read many pros and cons on doing so. Some guns shoot better, some don't.

Yeah, all factory stuff right now, but several different loads.

Oh, I did check my action screws. I should have stepped it up slowly, but I set it to 42lbs and got the screw to turn a good bit before clicking. I'm going to try that in the morning.


Edit: by a good bit, I mean at least a 1/4 turn on each.

Yes really and there's not a thing wrong with that nor would it be anything to be ashamed of. Perhaps his eyes don't work well with a low power scope? If they don't that's the shooters eyes. It is not likely to be the scope because fixed 6 SWFA'S are fairly renowned for being dead nuts accurate. So are tikka's. The man asked for advice so instead of leading him in circles I offered it straight and did leave room that it is a possibility it may be the rifle or scope. Odds are pretty low of a faulty tikka or SWFA fixed power scope though it is not impossible

I agree the tikka doesn't much care what you shoot it off of. IME there also not finicky about holding perfect form. The tikka's I've owned have shown this repeatedly especially when putting a number of inexperienced shooter behind the rifle a lot more than once and watching them print a nice group.

I'd be surprised if it's not something very minor. You've had some good suggestions and I think you're on the right track. One thing at a time, process of elimination. You'll get there.

should have bought a Swede...........

>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You guys are getting 2800 out of 140’s in your 6.5cm Tikkas? I’m getting robbed

Went back to the range this morning. I tightened up the action to 45 in-lbs and rested my left hand on the scope ring.

I shot 2, 10 round groups with Federal 140 gn Non-Typical White Tail. I was very disappointed... 2 inch groups. Total crap.

Then, things got better.

The Hornady Precision Hunter 143gn ELDX has been the best shooting of all the ammo I've tried.... I only had 10 rounds of it left. 9 of the rounds hit 15/16 of an inch! That's more like it. The 10th round was an honest flier. I knew it before the recoil as I shifted as I pulled the trigger.

I went back and did another 10 round group with the Federal stuff and went back to an ugly group.

I’ve used the 150 eldx in my Tikka 7mm-08 with excellent results. The 143 should be a winner.



P

Well, I was going to update my original post to reference this one as where I ended up. It doesn't look like I can.

Ok, I got a question on measuring groups. Someone pointed out to me that you measure center to center and not od to od.

See the attached.

So, which way is it?!?!?

I do outside to outside, then subtract a caliber.





P

If that's the case, then I'm looking at a 0.674 inch 9 round group.

So I guess you're not disappointed anymore?

Yeah, not much wrong with that 9 shot group. If the rifle will repeat that, you’re GTG.

That ELDX group (the 9 shots) will make a lot of custom gun builders cry.

BC that's really, really hard to beat.

Good shooting. You have a keeper.

Didn't read this whole thread too see if you reload, but I would bet you can shrink it some with a handload.

Bought bullets, primers, and powder today. Going to order dies tonight.

Nope.... Just need to figure out a couple of loads and go hunting.

Ha! I guess its not the shooter then 👍.....(Like some implied) ....Good luck with your new rifle......Hb

I like your attitude.



P

Nice! Enjoy finding a good load.

My Tikka really likes the 130 Sierra Gamechanger (or Tipped Gameking - whatever they are calling it)

And the deer don't like it very much, bang-flop.

I to have notice some time I get a jump on light rifles

Now Woodrow...... (ha)

Would you tell us or show a pic of the TARGET you decided to use ? Just Curious.


Jerry

Mine shoots the 143 ELDX’s ok but really shines with a healthy dose of H4350 and 139 Scenars. Here’s 5 at 100, I know it’s not a 100 shot group but it shoots this good consistently!....grin

I have a T3x Lite Stainless Laminate 6.5 Creedmoor that goes to wandering after 4 rounds. If I shoot 3rds and wait a bit, shoot 3 more, wait and shoot and it will shoot MOA, maybe a little over. If I try to shoot 5, swap mags and shoot 5 more it looks representative of your original groups. I am not going to shoot more than twice when hunting, and then only if I get 2 culls come to the feeder on the same hunt.

That undersizes the group slightly. The hole prints on the paper are rarely full caliber size.

mathman, I use the two holes that are the furthest distance apart and measure the outside of one to the inside of the other. Would this give accurate group measurement? Thanks.

Close enough for practical purposes.

It can be problematic when it's one ragged hole though.

I didn't change it yet.

After reading and taking the advice that you need a target that will help you line out both the vertical and horizontal lines on the grid (and not just the center point), I noticed that the targets I was using actually had a thicker line for the center. I could actually see when my reticles were NOT on those grid lines. It satisfied what the other targets were doing. Since my printer stopped working and I wanted to go shooting, I stuck with what I had.

I do plan on trying other targets though.

The way I measure groups undersizes them significantly, since I lie, mostly.






P

Saturday, with this thread in mind, I used this target

http://www.targetz.com/targetzlib/10013.pdf

to shoot a couple of 5 round groups at the end of the day. The scope was a Meopta Meopro 3-9x42 with their version of a duplex reticle. I shot one group on 4x and one group on 3x, both at 100 yards. The sight picture was good even with the center dot obscured, I just laid the reticle lines evenly between the big blocks. I'll measure them tonight, but for now I'll say if you're using the right target then shooting well under moa with 4x isn't a problem.

What are you talking about?

I’m only a 1.5 MOA shooter for 10 rd groups from sticks/bipods/prone over a backpack in field conditions anyways. Worse if I’m cold. My 6.5 Tikmoor shoots a lot better than I can. I’ve settled on caring more about my 1-shot groups being where they are supposed to be after I slam the rifle against the vehicle on the way in and out or after I dial up to where the tape on my turret says I should be hitting.

I measure my groups, then assign whatever diameter I want.

That’s the lie part. And the groups never end in a 0, it makes the lie more believable.






P

Thnx for your Xplanation.

If it works For You, that’s all that matters.

For myself—- I didn’t have confidence aiming in Large targets. Reticles subtend certain amounts of the target, depending.... On a large square or diamond I FEEL there is too much room for
the X to move around and I don’t know it.

It’s been way too long to remember from Whom or Where I got the idea of a
6 O’clock hold but I immediately recognized the advantage ** FOR ME.

With the circle on TOP of my Crosshair when the gun goes off —- I know if I’m
on, R, L, H, or L.

Like other things what works for one does NOT mean it works for all.

Thnx and Good Shooting

Jerry

The 4x group was 5/8" and the 3x group was 13/16". With the targets overlaid the 4x group fit within the 3x group, so the composite is ten shots inside 13/16" using no more than 4x.

You'll be OK with "only 6x" as you saw when you tried the right ammo.

So it wasn't the scope or the rifle......hmmmm, imagine that! I'm not saying tikka's with SWFA scopes shoot I'm just saying they don't not shoot! Grin


Trystan

Actually, it may very well have been the rifle. The only two things that changed were the action screws and me resting my hand on the scope to weigh down the rifle on the bags. I would have confirmed if I had more of the PH ammo. It also doesn't like some ammo.

I'm going to work up loads now and see what I get make that will consistently shoot. I guess then, I can try changing how the rifle is held.

I think touching the rifle above the stock would have made all the difference - even if it didn't affect the way the barrel vibrated it would have affected the way it recoiled and recoil starts as soon as the bullet starts moving forward, and affects bullet departure point.

Seating position at the bench also affects point of impact - the more forward your torso is, the more effective weight behind the rifle and the more effect of the recoil movement. But I suppose accuracy should still be okay if the position is consistent, just point of impact will be slightly different compared with shooting off-hand.

How about torque of the action screws?

I had at least a 1/4 turn on both.

Not sure, but you could see how it shoots now with your hand on the scope, and if the same issue happens.

A little horizontal creeping on there. Watch the thumb pressure on that trigger hand. Another 95 shots and who knows! You kill stuff shooting like that?

Just kidding. Nice shooting there my friend.

Just wanted to update, this rifle is teaching me how to shoot. Being honest with myself, I'm beginning to realize how accurate it is and easy I can lose focus. I'm not sure it cares what ammo I feed it. I'm not consistently shooting 10 rounds.... But I'll work on that.

Today, I used the left hand on the toe bag. It's a light rifle, but putting my hand on the scope doesn't seem to make a difference.

Also, cold to hot.... It doesn't care.

I like a story with a happy ending!

What began as a potential unicorn turned out to be just another typical tikka work horse~

Right on Wesley. Nice shooting Woodrow. That'll work all day long.