Just finished a Field and Stream Richard Mann article where he stated he will never use a 30-06 because of an obnoxious uncle who incessantly proclaimed the 06 to be the end all, be all. I can't think of a cartridge that I let another person ruin for me. How 'bout y'all?

I think the 6.5 Creedmore falls into that category for many here.

I already had a .260 Remington when the CM came out, or I probably would have built one.

.270 and 6.5 creed Gay and gayer...


7mm Rem mag.Never heard anything but it producing seemingly magical results, and have never EVER seen anyone shoot one proficiently. They bought it cause Uncle Charlie said its a lightning bolt, and are obviously afraid of the recoil.They shoulda bought the .270 instead.

I’ve never been prouder to say I’ve never fooled with a 7mag.

30-06 for same reason as above. Had a friend who's dad would proclaim "my 30-06 will do anything your rifle will and more" repeatedly while chain-chugging beer. Couldn't stand that A-rod and never considered a 30-06 because of him. I grew to understand there are better cartridges than 30-06 as well.

Anything chambered in an AR....

My dad was that way. He'd go on and on about the superiority of the 30-06 to other cartridges. Even though he never used other cartridges. One time he shot a buck in the neck at 90 yards. He told me he would have only trusted the 30-06 on that shot. I just looked at him funny. He used to tell 270 users that they used a groundhog cartridge and 243 users that theirs was nothing more than a bee sting to a deer. Still never ruined the 30-06 for me and I use one every year

Could not agree more......only not a person but dozen's have told me the 6.5Gaymoor is the be all end all.....

I will NEVER own one.......EVER, I will find my way without one, out of the crowd

No one has ever turned me off a cartridge I really wanted. There are many different cartridges I have never owned but if someone gave me one of those, I would own it with pride as long as the gun wasn't a piece of junk.

Thank you!

I think it was here on the fire, a few years before I joined up, some guy said something like this, maybe it was his sig line, " not everybody who has a 7 Mag is an azwhole, but every azwhole has one" A f...king classic.

They are all good when used for their intended purpose. I never wanted a 280, but got a good deal on a Kimber BGR. I have it sighted in with 120 Barnes, excited about using it this year on deer and pigs, maybe an Aoudad.

I like 7 mags and 30-06’s have a few of each. I have a couple of Creeds too. They are damn fun to shoot

For the longest time.I hated the 6mm Rem and the 7mm Remington all because a kid at school had the six and his dad had a seven. Kid was a but head and all he did around deer season was brag how the two cartridges were better than all others. I outgrew the notion

I know a guy who won't eat pork and beans to this day because his older brother who was a thorn in his side loved it.

Same psychology here it appears.

I can't quote the exact time period, but the gun writers pretty well turned me off of anything that came out during the new cartridge of the month frenzy...every possible bore diameter of short mag was a must have..TC .30, .300 RCM, .300SAUM, .30 RAR, .308 Marlin Express, various Nosler offerings, endless variations of silly little offerings for the AR platform...all that appearing after we were already tiring of endless variations of Remington cooking up every possible bore diameter on the .308 case. And yes, I have a 6.5 Creed...not because I wanted it...because a customer didn't want it after it was finished...and I can't give it away at cost just to break even. I am DONE with
"new and improved".

Yeah, good thing folks on the 'Fire base their decisions on logic and reason and not emotions.

Can't say I don't agree with you.
Then my eldest bought a DPMS "Panther". Laid around in the case under the bed for a couple of years.
We had a coyote problem. Out of desperation, I asked the Kid if I could drag it out. "Sure, pop! Have fun!"
I scoped it and had a blast with it...and blasted several 'yotes!
Then the youngest sent me a stripped lower and a box full of parts.
"I got a promotion dad, and I won't have time to finish this!"
"Uhhh, I don't know how to put an AR together!" I whined!
"YouTube, dad! YouTube!" came the reply.
Since then, I've built about 15! Love 'em!
Right now, my primary rifle is a DIY AR in 6.8mm Rem SPC!
It's deadly on pigs and deer!

+1

Not ruined by a person but I got tired of reading 270 and 30-06 articles growing up that it soured my interest in them. They're great rounds and I'm not going to twist myself into knots trying to talk bad about them, they just aren't on my list of stuff to buy. Although I do own a 30-06 handed down by my grandfather that'll shoot every once in a while.

I knew several guys in the 90’s toting 7mm Rem. Mags shooting factory loaded 140 ballistic tips.

They all seemed to lose deer, which made me dislike the round not only for its recoil, but the fact it seemed to blow up bullets on shoulders at close range, or maybe they just couldn’t shoot. Either way, it seemed that any round that kicked that damn hard oughta kill better.

Another friend (who may have just been a better shot) bought one just before deer season. All Wally World had left was a box of Fed Premium 160 Partitions. He didn’t want anyone to know what load he was hunting with for fear of being made fun of for “deer hunting with elk bullets”.

He proceeded to slay deer as though it was Thor’s hammer.

There’s a lesson in there somewhere, I’m just not sure which one…….

I got real tired of 270win vs 30-06 when I was a kid and avoided them until now. I'm sick of the 6.5 hype, got tired of Jack O'Conner stories but it's not a dig on the cartridges. Past few years I finally acquired a 270win and 30-06 because they offered economy and availability in ammo and components compared to other things I've used. For me my main tools are all about logistics logistics logistics. For thelat reason it's 5.56, 270win, 308win, and 30-06 as primary firearm tools. Yes a 6.5 Creedmoor could fit in there but I just don't have a need for it

I don't much care what other people say so the answer is "no."

Unless you shoot at ranges much over 400 yards, the CM holds no real world advantage over your .270.

I was never really put off from a cartridge because of what others said or did. Probably the closest I ever came was that, for years, I had no interest in getting a .308. I loaded .308's for my brother and a couple of friends, but it just seemed such a dull cartridge....

Then a guy called me one night. One of my sons had told him I might be interested in a No. 1B he had for sale. It had a 3.3-10 Nikon Monarch and SKB hard case, was in like new condition. The price was right too, he needed money fast. I knew the provenance of the gun was legit. The only problem was, it was a .308. Oh, what the hell, maybe I'll make a .30-06 out of it. I put a 1 1/2 - 5 Leupold on it and proceeded to start killing deer with it. It has become one of my favorites. Maybe I'm getting old, but it seems there's nothing wrong with dull cartridges at all anymore.

No. I wish I could afford a 106mm Recoiless Rifle. What’s not to love about it?

I just stick with cartridges that are popular, widely available, cheap and effective for my uses. In other words "practical". A term many loonies seem quite unfamiliar with. Don't give a damn what somebody else uses but think picking a cartridge because it's "cool", offbeat/different/obsolete or "has soul" is as fuucking retarded as not using one because somebody you don't like does.

I suppose not for me, but I am a bit prejudice towards the .25 auto just because.

No, because I’m not one that gets emotional about inanimate objects and still have my wits about me enough to make rational decisions.

Come to think of it, I’m kinda embarrassed about even responding to this touchy-feely thread…

Always some Debbie downer trying to be the buzz kill. Cartridges, brands, food, whatever. Probably a step or 2 lower, than pain in the ass spelling Nazi's. Just a waste of time.

Due to my background in more general journalism, once I starting to write more for "gun magazines" in the 1990s decided to try to be as objective as possible about various cartridges. This doesn't always work, because like most humans something else always introduces itself. But have tried to be objective--which includes actually shooting, handloading and hunting with various rounds.

One thing that resulted was that the longer I hunt and use more cartridges myself, or witness them in action in the hands of various hunting partners, is how little difference in performance there is between 'em--usually far less than many firmly believe.

Though one thing I did discover about myself is that often when more hunters/shooters badmouth a round, the more I want to try it...if I haven't already.

Wisdom right there

Yep. Cartridge is the '06, the person is my father.

Never heard “smaller was better”…

But guess that round has no haters. No derangement syndrome.

Safe choice.

DF

No.

Obnoxious Uncle's can ruin almost anything. But their influence is usually short lived.

:-)

Way underpowered, light bullets, low velocity, no stopping power at all. Go with the 32ACP. You'll thank me later.

i did on myself. years ago, i had the 243 Win (Remington m7 and m700 BDL) and i began to hate it. there was no problem accuracy-wise (except one). 100gr Hornady, Seirra and Speer (RN and SP) with IMR4831 would be under 1" at 100 yards (5 shots/bench). it did not matter what kind of bullet i used and it did not matter if the deer was shot on the shoulder or behind the shoulder, the deer would run after the shot. 50 - 125 yards later, the deer would die. (my shot would be 20 - 60ish yards) i was about to give up on the 243 when i heard about this Barnes X bullet. it was Barnes first mono bullet. so i ordered 85gr Barnes X bullets. i went thru many different powders, but i only found that i could shoot it 1 1/2 - 2" at 100 yards. the rest of the powder were 2" - i better throw that target away. i shot a doe at 25ish yards behind the shoulder and the doe runs. i wait about 15 - 20 minutes and i begin to track her. i find a drop of blood every 40 - 50 yards. oh, i was on my knees and hands tracking her thru the brush and mountain laurels. i was mad, to say the least. anyway, i found her dead about 225 - 250 yards away. when i done gutting her, i found that the X bullet wasn't what it was hype up to be. the wound track was like a pencil sized wound thru the lungs. basically, it was like shooting 22lr into a gas full self sealing tank. it was at that point, i'm done with the 243 and i haven't shot one since. my good friend kills deer with his Rem m788 in 243 and 100gr whatever is cheaper factory loads. he's been killing deer since he was 12yo.


when i first started hunting deer (swPA), it was either the Rem m760 pump '06 or the Win m94 30-30. there would be a bolt or two 270 Win or Marlin 336 in 35 Rem somewhere, but you would either have a pump or lever action rifle. it was around the early '90s when about everybody traded their pump/lever to a bolt and there was magnum in about 50% of them. i never got into magnums (except the 44 Rem mag) but i have shot them.

the '06/270 and the 260/6.5CM debate has been getting old. i own or have owned them except for the 260 Rem and on the 260/CM debate, i'll go with the old 6.5x55. my dad (RIP) had a Rem m760 in '06 for years and then he got a Rem m7 in 7-08. i've had '06s in Rem m700 A,B and CDL & mountain rifle, Savage m116 adjustable muzzle brake and m110. i can't complain about them, 125gr FNHP thru 220gr RN have killed a pile of deer. the Savage m110 and a Ruger #1 in 270 Win have killed a pile of deer too. i have a early sporterized Arisaka Type 99 in '06 and the Ruger #1 in 270. oh, i have my dad's m760 too.

For sometime the anti Leupold crowd made a job of the same thing in reverse....and the lemmings ran off the cliff...

This.

Jack O’Connor and the .270. I’ve owned a couple over the years but they never stayed around very long. I didn’t care for Jack and damned sure couldn’t stand the .270

Only if you let them. Personally, I like them all, including .30-06s, 6.5 Creeds, .270s and 7mms.

Way to lead off. Strong 1st post.


lol

Fudd

I always thought of the 243 as a puny cartridge until I watched grandkids slay deer and pigs as well as I did with my magnums. I have a couple now, like them a lot.

i have my favorites i load or reload for ,shoot targets and hunt with as do others . but to be honest that dang old 30-06 the older i get the more i see it as a still a great been around a long time old cartridge still getting it done and ammo is available any place in the world. and yes since i was a kid many have told me that too and yes maybe they were right too ???? Pete53

Never been a follower, I will entertain other peoples opinions and then do my own research and make up my mind. I tend not to like changes so I am kind of partial to older cartridges such as 30-06, 300 H&H, 7mm RM, 243, 30-30 and few others and no one can ruin my use or experience with them.

I thought of the 243 as puny until I saw a dozen sets of elk horns hanging on the wall of my buddy's den. He never owned another rifle than his Sako Forrester .243.

it's been going on 30 years since i've touched the 243. i gave my oldest son, after he graduated high school, a Savage Axis in 243. he takes it out coyotes/groundhog hunting. when he goes for deer, it's either a 7 Mauser or my grandpap's (RIP) pump '06.

i ruined myself on the 243, mostly because the 243 didn't drop deer DRT or at 10-40 yards after the shot. it kills deer, 9 or 10 deer agree, but i don't like to track them. my friend (who shoots behind the shoulder) only tracks deer only 20 or 30 yards after the shot. go figure.

Mann’s uncle was right about the 30-06. However, I’ll never own a 6.5 Creedmore. Not because of one person but because hundreds of thousands of man bun wearing ninny’s swear it’s like some cutting edge new technology, surpassing all existing rifle dynamics as we know it.

Amen, just slightly varying shades of grey.

I’m was acquainted with a blowhard who tried his very best to convince me and rest of the world that life would not be complete without a 257 and 300 Weatherby.

He had a reamer for a 300 Wby and I had just gotten my left handed 300 H&H from Remington’s custom shop. I think he was insulted that I didn’t want him to ream the chamber out to 300 Wby. He pushed hard until I finally grumped at him that if I wanted a damn 300 Wby I would have ordered one.

I’ve not had much use for either Weatherby round since though I know both are good.

This but if only I had a penny for everytime I heard stupid sh*t I'd be rich. Then there is the fact I'm almost deaf and that don't bother me as much anymore. Mb

Anytime I see Mr. Mann opine about a cartridge, I usually run the opposite direction.

Despite a small-sample correlation I perceive between .270 win and needle peeners I have known... no. Even lately when contemplating what to get next, .270 win was in there alongside .30-06 and 6.8W. However, I don't see my favored 325 wane its operation window until it's Grendel territory so I went with more variants of 'el favorito'.

Yep!... Grampa had a 351 Winchester sl... apparently it was the laughing stock at deer camp... then one day he went out barefoot to dispatch a skunk in the yard... he missed, gun jammed, skunk sprayed him, then chased him back to the house... Gramma grabbed a bat and chased him back to the skunk!...

I started not liking the 30-06 for that reason, now I have a half dozen or so. Then it was the 7mm Remington magnum, now I'm on my second. Then the .243 (I like the .244/6mm Remington), now I have two. I'm a big hypocrite, for the right price I'll shoot anything. I just love to shoot.

It was Ingwe who really wrecked it for me and the 270 WIN.

. . . Not really. It was Jack O'Connor. I read way too much Outdoor Life as a kid, and 270 Winchester was always going places and shooting at things that I was probably never going to. I lived in a shotgun-only state. Nobody ever wrote about hunting deer with a 12 Gauge. It pissed me off. When I started going to a new barbershop, there were two camps. 30-06 and 270 WIN. I climbed on board the ought-six train, partly because my dad had shot it in the war, but mostly because it wasn't a 270 WIN.

I still don't like it. I buy 270 WIN brass and nock the gay out of it, turning it into 25-06.

On the other hand, I can't explain my unnatural attraction to 35 Whelen. I shot my Whelenizer for over a decade at Kentucky Whitetail. I finally grew tired of all the extra recoil and went back to the ought-six . However, I still keep a loaded 35 Whelen round next to my chair. I find it comforting to hold.

That's how I feel about my 458 Lott round. I hated the rifle. It was punishing. But I like that loaded 458 round. John Taylor wrote about an African who carried a 465 Nitro Express round in his pocket as a talisman. I'm not there yet

When I was a kid many decades ago, I used to read outdoor magazines & dream of owning certain rifles in various calibers. Over time I never grew out of that so most of the calibers I own would probably be considered "classics". There have been some great cartridges invented in the last 100+ years but I just haven't purchased many of them. Shooting left-handed limits my options as well. Since I do most of my hunting in the southeast for medium-sized game, any centerfire I have in the safe can kill a deer or a hog. If I lived in more wide-opened terrain, some of the more modern long-range rounds that are popular now might be more appealing. I would say that maybe I'm a bit leery of the latest & greatest whiz bang cartridges until I feel some certainty that they won't fade away within a few years of being introduced especially since I don't reload. I enjoy hearing other hunter's opinions about various cartridges. But I buy what I like only to please myself & for reasons that might only make sense to me.

Sounds like a Patrick F. McManus story. 😂

I'm not easily swayed by what other people do or say when it comes to shooting sports hardware.

A lot of people opine about things that they've never actually experienced, often parroting what they've read on the internet. I think that in law-speak that is called "hearsay" and is not considered credible or allowed to be entered into evidence.

It's never happened to me, but if it does, it'll be because of Lee J. Hoots.

That person is a weak minded slug. That's like hating air because Hitler breathed it.

Anything less than .30al. Dad was an -06 guy. I started with a 30-30. My brother bought a 243 and I watched him put 5 fatal rounds into a deer once and it kept running and running and running. Now I own 223, 257, 6.5, 270, 7mm. Prejudices die hard. And I still don't like the 243.

If anything ever turned me off about any cartridge, it's "belted magnum". Dang few cartridges need a "belt". It's a "selling point" for magnum cartridges. (If it ain't got a belted case, it ain't a "magnum"!)

The other thing is "Weatherby"! 😖
The rifles are expensive and the ammo is expensive.
I'm not saying the Weatherby isn't a nice rifle, but too many more common rounds (.30-06 Gov't?) Can achieve the same result with less cost and less recoil.
I've seen way too many folks hauling a "Wby" through the woods simply for the "fashion statement"! (It's a Weatherby!)

At a gun range, a dad asked a local gunsmith why his 14 year old son couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his new rifle?
The 'smith goes over to the bench where a slim built kid touches off a .300 Wby Mag, knocking the kid's cap off and almost rolling him off the bench.
"First, go get that kid something he can shoot. That artillery piece is too much for him!"
Pop bought the kid a .243 Win. The father/son duo had a fantastic Colorado mulie hunt with the kid taking the biggest buck with one well placed shot!

I never gave a rat'sass about what cartridge a gun is chambered in. I do care about the gun itself. Like John said, there's so little real world difference between cartridges in the same general class that more often than not you can just close your eyes, pick one, and sashay down the road whistling Dixie. Loyalty (or disloyalty) for a cartridge is kind of a bizarre concept if you stop and think about it.

I have a dozen .30-06's (I think, I'm not gonna go count them) - not because I feel it's the best cartridge of all time but because I like the guns it's chambered in. (Springfields only came from the Armory in one caliber.) It so happens that the '06 is a pretty good cartridge so it's kismet.

So many of the guys in our parents and grandparents generation could only afford one rifle. When one's selection of that one rifle (or one anything) is based on economic reasons it makes that item take on supernatural powers, whether deserved or not. Heck, that's the same basis for all the old "Ford vs. Chevy" debates when we were kids. No practical real-world difference between the two makes but the choice in family cars had to be justified/defended because after all the Old Man was saddled with paying for it.

Dislike of cartridges due to previous bad experience is similar to being turned off by food from previous bad experience. Ya know how if you eat a piece of undercooked chicken and get food poisoning, after that chicken tastes vile and revolting for a while? The chicken may be cooked perfectly, but the mind still goes back to the bad experience. There's a psychological component to it that defies logic.
Anytime I see someone show up at hunting camp with a 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, or 300 Weatherby Mag, I have a similar feeling. Most guys just can't shoot them well, and there's a better than average chance their hunt will include a rodeo.

Except none of that is true. Hundreds of thousands? Exaggerate much?

Can a person ruin a cartridge for you?


No, I always shot what I wanted to. Never much cared what other people thought when it comes to guns.

[quote=Pappy348. .. still have my wits about me enough to make rational decisions.

[/quote]

What's rational about 5.7mm and .22 WMR autopistols? You're as bad as the rest of us.

Dad bought a 7mag when they first came out and another when that one was stolen. He would go to the range and sight in a handful of shots then complain about his shoulder hurting. My brother bought one for his first deer rifle - and flinches horribly. Never wanted one myself.

When I bought a 6mm Rem they both scoffed. Then, while cleaning a good axis deer I held my 6mm near the ribs and asked Dad if he thought the bullet would go clean through. He said "hell yeah it would" so I asked him why he thought it would be different at 100 yards? That got his wheels turning.

We soon replaced his (now muzzle braked) 7mag with a 6.5x55 cz550 and he LOVED it. My brother ended up buying a cheap Stevens 200......in 243 and is amazed how well it shoots ( you know.....when your eyes remain open).


I bought a 260 when they were the craze maybe 20 years ago or so. Remains my go-to. If re-doing I would likely sigh. shake my head and mumble "Creedmoor."

In fact just hooked up my future S-I-L with one as his first rifle.

Well, I pretty much ain't going to have what the new crop of magazine writers test and recommend as the greatest ever until their next review. Nor am I going to take for gospel from on high anything other shooters say until I've tried it for myself.

I try to evaluate the opinion of others by learning the basis for those opinions. Then, shrug and walk away. I'll make my own mistakes and form my own opinions. Writers of the late 60's said the 80 grain bullet in the .243 was just for varmints but that's all I had. I shot them through the chests of two deer.

This is page 4 and no one is reading anymore so I'll ramble a bit.

If anything, I've been talked into not out of cartridges. Been living mostly in North Carolina for a long time now. Felt a little silly shooting little deer with a 30-06. After reading quite a bit of positive reporting about it, bought a 243 (this was at the dawn of the 6.5CM and I didn't know if it would stick or I might be wearing a flat brim hat by now!). Nothing wrong with it per se but haven't had the results I like. That being a blood trail. A 50yd run in this hellishly thick brush can result in a lost deer with no blood to follow. I want to like the 243, I really do and may give it more of a chance but its hard to do now that I have aquired a 308 that paints the forest floor red.

I've also been talked into a 375R (for when I get off my butt and head over to kill Mbogo), a 9.3X62 (seems like a good way to swat a black bear or a nilgai) and most recently bought an old MK V 270WBY (cause I always wanted one)

As far as the liking one cartridge over another, I tend to agree with MD. I doubt a deer (or elk or black bear) could tell the difference between anything between a 270 and a 300. As long as you put a decent bullet in the right place. At this point I just want something I can feed with decent off the shelf ammo.

Talked out of, no, talked into...... Hey, its fun and my glass is half full!

I never was much of a fan of the .270 and frankly still not much of one. The only reason I had even one was a friend got a great deal on one, a commercial FN Mauser with a stock ugly enough to abort a lady crocodile. (Thanks Jack)Price was $75.00 and the gun was NIB. I still have it and it's still in that same ugly stock. It shoots way too good to change it. The year was 1973, a year when I went a it ape buying guns. That's also the year when I bought my first .308. I'd ben doing most of my hunting with a very bubba'd 1903 Springfield that weighed a ton, or so it seems when hunting at the 9,000 foot MSL level where the deer were. I had to find something much lighter in weight. I found a Remington 660 at the local hardware store on sale for $99.95 but the big problem was it was chambered to the .308 Win. I'd shunned that cartridge since it first came out and here I was about to eat crow because I'd said I'd never own one. After all, it was a 30-06 wannabe. I bought it anyway along with a 4x Bushnell scope and a Lee whack'em loading tool plus a pound of H335. Bought a couple boxes of Winchester 150 gr. factory to get brass. Damn! That little rifle kicked like hell and I was starting to flinch. My kids got me a set of hearing muffs for my birthday and the question asked was, "Where did all that kick go?" Well deer season came up and I took that little 660 with me with the 06 as back up and one the IIR second day of the hunt, I got a shot at a Mule Deer way out yonder. One of my hunting partners had wounded it and it was running off. I took a shot and the deer went down hard. My buddies came over and we paced it off at 426 paces. I never looked down on the .308 after that. I did go with 165 gr. bullets after deciding the 150 gr. messed up too much meat. It's been restocked with a lightweight synthetic stock and a rattle can paint job that shows wear from many hunts. It still will put three 165 gr. Speer Hot Cores into an inch when I do my part.
PJ

I've never understood why some people get so emotional involved about inanimate objects.

IMO cartridges aren't good or bad, they are just cartridges and all cartridges are designed to work within a set of performance parameters. With few exception, like the 22 and 6mm PPCs, most, maybe all, cartridges that have been introduced during the past 100 years are redundant in some way and could be replaced by other similar cartridges without any meaningful difference in actual performance.

Never ruined by a single particular person, but I sure get tired of people that proclaim how much better a particular cartridge is than its contemporaries when the velocity at muzzle exit is the same and the cartridge capacity is about the same !
Grendel and Creedmoor come to mind , and the vast majority of these Kool Aid drinkers have been shooting g less than 20 years- the rest are guns and ammo writing shills who don't care about how or what they write as long as it gets sold .
Cat

Not a person, no. My brother bought me a 7mm Mag with a bad stock that kicked the living hell out of me. First one I ever shot. I sold it after a half box, and have never liked the 7 Mag since. Except for that Husquavarna I did some work on once. Check-shooting it clover-leafed 5 rounds. Twice (first time might have been accidental, no?), and it had a good stock on it, with relatively mild recoil.

Guy just would not sell it to me for some reason. What an idiot!

Living on the farm, we had an old timer for a neighbor who took it upon himself to teach us how to reload and shoot rifles with open sights. He was a firm believer in historically proven battle cartridges. Ie. 6.5x55, 7x57, 303 British, 30-06, 8x57 and a whole bunch of American western cartridges as well. He always told us to avoid magnums for a several reasons, cost/consumption of powder/expensive rifles, unnecessary recoil, flinches that can occur, our type of hunting didn't require long range shots (300 yards and under). So we took heed as we clearly saw how good of a shot and successful hunter he was. Anyhow among our friends there were magnum type guys who would laugh at us for carrying old surplus "pea shooters" while they carried new Remington 700's in 300 magnums with big scopes and so on, but the tables turned pretty quick with time spent in camp. The look on they're faces when my brother and I would come back with game, most of the time one shot a piece, while they were empty handed from taking several poor shots on many occasions. This proved to be an issue among many of our friends as we noticed the trend of those carrying magnums would have horrible flinches and when they did shoot something the poor animal's had 3-4 shots all over the place. Seeing all of this gave me a bad taste for magnums and I avoided them for a while. I now have a couple magnums and do believe they have a place for certain applications but for most of my hunting I still reach for the classic standards.

I'm a firm believer in starting off with low recoiling cartridges, let the new shooter learn how to shoot and work up from there based off their comfort and capabilities.

Can a person ruin a cartridge for you?

Nope.

Don't care what other people think enough for it to ruin a cartridge for me.

I value their freedom to think what they want to, as well as my own.

The Germans ruined the 8x57 for me.

I don't blame you. Thank you for your service 🙏

Same thing happened to me with the 7.62x39, but it wasn't the Germans.

Hope to never run into thousands of man bun wearing ninny's afield. Then again ,I could care less what they carry or what they think.
YMMV

Never had another's opinion rune a cartridge for me. Came close after meeting Jack O'Conner and Elmer Keith at an NRA convention. Jack was a pompous AH on that particular day and Elmer was a gentleman. I have owned several 270's none of which stayed long. 243 is another cartridge I have never had any joy with. I have owned several, Colt Huntsman, Sako action, No1A Ruger probably the best looking rifle I ever owned, several Rem 700's and a Rem 600. None of which I could ever get to shoot like I wanted. 6mm Rem good to go, 6mm BR and 6mm Arc all of which have been excellent. The first 243 I had ever seen really shoot,(on paper on demand) is a friends Ruger 77v. Do I dislike the 243, no but my lovely wife has forbidden me buying another as she dislikes my comments when it doesn't work for me.

Yeah I wanted so bad to love the 243 but it just never won me over. Every so many years I forget and buy another one. The definition of insanity and all that

I'm in the same boat with the 243, have had several over the years that I wanted to like but never happened, the final cure for me with the 243 is when I bought an AR10T from Armalite in 243...........hated it !!!!!!!!!!!!!and it cured me for good with the 243

Robert Silvers

300 blackout

couldn't stand all of the vague comparisons he was pushing on various forums shilling and trying to make about the blk in comparison to the mp5sd, etc. As I recall, he even was banned from a few of those forums.

[img]https://image.slidesharecdn.com/300...sibility-carbine-2-638.jpg?cb=1438121493[/img]

[img]https://image.slidesharecdn.com/300...sibility-carbine-7-638.jpg?cb=1438121493[/img]

The 45-70 shooters ruined that one for me. Actually, come to think of it, the 45-70 ruined the 45-70 for me.

A person can't because I really don't care what someone says. But the entire hype about the 6.5 Creedmoore put me off it especially when I looked at the loading data and saw that it doesn't do a damn thing that my 6.5x55 Swede cannot do. As a matter of fact I can load the Swede to levels the 6.5 Creedmore cannot begin to attain. The 6.5 Creedmore has benefitted from a lot of hype and it filled a niche that didn't exist in the first place. The 6.5x55 Swede, 260 Rem, 6.5x57 Mauser, 6.5 Rem Mag and 264 Win mag all beat it. But they didn't have the hype.

Not a .243 fan, either. If a person could be to blame, I s'pose it'd be my Superhero: Dad.

He bought me a 788 when I was 12, and a box of 100 grain CoreLokts for it. We proceeded to sight it in on the farm... with no hearing protection. The muzzle blast scared the [fecal material] outa me, and I flinched like a [maternal fornicator] every time I tried to get that 90# trigger to break. I managed by luck to take a few bucks with it as a teenager (none of them being spectacular kills), then it stayed in the gun cabinet for over 25 years.

After hanging out here a while, I got it out & tried (using hearing protection this time) to make it work with different brands of ammo & various bullet weights, but it sprayed shots wildly, even with a new scope & mounts.

I reached out to Mickey Coleman for advice, 'cause he seemed like one of the good guys here. His opinion was that it had a, "bad barrel", so he offered to screw a new one on there for me. As it turned out, he had a spare Douglas barrel in .280AI in the shop, so he reamed it to 7-08 so I could use the .243 magazine that came with the rifle. He even worked-over the trigger a bit. Voila - it would now stack 120 grain BT's atop one another, and I swear it has less recoil & muzzle blast, too.

I've no doubt I could take plenty of game with a .243, but I just don't see the point in trying again. I've got .223's that shoot extremely well, and .284-bore & up rifles for the bigger stuff. It's all just superstition, but that's the story behind my own.

And yes - Dad's still my Superhero, & always will be.

FC

Have pointed out a number times on the Campfire and elsewhere that the point of the 6.5 Creedmoor is NOT beating the muzzle velocity of similar-sized rounds like the .260 and 6.5x55. Instead it began as a target round, with "modern" case and chamber features that resulted in finer accuracy--even with common, inexpensive factory ammo.

EVERY guy I've met who made your same criticisms has been a handloader, usually older, who thinks the only measurement of a cartridge is muzzle velocity. And no, the .260, 6.5x55, and 6.5x57 Mauser don't beat the Creedmoor's velocity when handloaded to the same pressure, because all three have just about the same powder capacity. I know this because I've handloaded for all three. (If you're loading the 6.5x55 to velocities "the Creedmore cannot begin to attain" then you're loading the 6.5x55 to much higher pressures--and the SAAMI maximum average pressure for the Creedmoor is 62,000 PSI, which is not that far behind the highest SAAMI maximum pressure SAAMI for any rifle cartridge.)

But the major advantage of the 6.5 Creedmoor is abundant, affordable and usually very accurate factory ammo. Have shot seven of 'em, and even the least accurate (a $250 T/C bolt rifle) would do an inch with really cheap factory ammo.

And no, the Creedmoor didn't start getting "hyped" until it had been around a few years. It was introduced as a target round in 2007, but it took longer for hunters to catch on. I was aware of its existence, but didn't buy one until 2010, when a local store got some Ruger Hawkeyes, and everybody was raving about the accuracy. So I bought one, along with several boxes of Hornady ammo, and the very first 5-shot (not 3-shot) group at 100 yards was around .6 inch. So I killed a pronghorn with it that fall, and wrote an article for Handloader magazine, so thought I was "done" with the 6.5 Creedmoor and sold the rifle.

But by that time far more hunters had tried one, and there was so much demand for info that various magazines started running articles. THAT was when the "hype" started--but it came from demand from readers. In fact, the editor of Handloader got tired of 6.5 Creedmoor articles, and said he wasn't going to run any more. But readers kept insisting on wanting more, so he had to change his mind--which is why I ended up doing at least three "update" articles on the round over the next dozen years, partly because so many bullet and powder companies kept introducing new bullets and powders primarily designed for the 6.5 Creedmoor.

I will finish this by noting that I no longer own a 6.5 Creedmoor, or even dies. That's partly because I own a superbly accurate custom 6.5x55 made with a Lilja barrel by Charlie Sisk. But it doesn't group any better than some $500 6.5 CMs I've owned and shot--and you can't buy 6.5x55 factory ammo in the U.S. that matches the variety AND velocities of average 6.5 Creedmoor ammo.

Thanks John,nice to have a response by someone who knows what they're talking about and has actually BTDT.

Yup. Which is why I stated early in this thread, if I didn’t already have a .260 Rem (which is my favorite rifle) when the 6.5 CM came out, I’d have built one.

I appreciate a versatile, accurate, mild recoiling cartridge.

I've never understood how any American male with cahones' can sit out a presidential election and not bother to vote. That's far more important than getting horned up and pissed about what someone chooses to shoot or hunt with. I personally could give a ratsazzz what anyone uses, or what anyone thinks about my own equipment.

Sorry to have stepped on your favorite cartridge and hair style.

Thanks!

As an example of 6.5 Creedmoor factory rifle/ammo accuracy, here's a group shot with Hornady 143-grain ELD-X hunting ammo from an unaltered Franchi Momentum rifle retailing for around $550 at the time, if I recall the price correctly.

This is not a 100-yard group, but was shot at 300 yards while sighting-in for a mule deer hunt. There was a little left-right breeze, which I didn't try to correct for--though the drift was "correct" the load and range. Have known quite a few handloaders who would be happy with such a group at 100 yards.... In fact I know more one Creedmoor critic who thinks 1-1/2", 3-shot groups with one of his favorite rounds are really good. There's no doubt that'll work for most big game hunting at "normal" ranges, but....

The target was shot at by more than one of the hunters in camp, the reason there are other holds--some of which are covered with "pasters." But this was my final confirmation group.

As Potterfield likes to say, "that's the way it is".

Indeed John, thank you.

It amazes me that someone can actually "hate" any cartridge. I just don't get it. I don't own a 6.5 Creedmoor and I doubt I ever will. Not because I hate it, or its hype, or the weird unfathomable connotations applied to owners/shooters of it, it's just that I have a nifty 6.5x55 Ruger 1A and that's enough 6.5 anythings for me (well, maybe not if another 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer winked at me). I have enough other guns to mess with, such that I doubt I'll have enough time to fully understand them all before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

To each his own but I do wish that the haters would at least learn to spell "Creedmoor" properly though.

Well, I wasn't going to point out how many haters can't spell Creedmoor, but....

I might buy another 6.5x54 M-S carbine if the right one came along! The one I owned and hunted with for a few years wouldn't average better than about 1-1/2" to 2" at 100 yards, but then again I was shooting it with irons and it killed deer fine. (Though I actually found one of the highly-touted 160 round-noses didn't hold together very well, even at 2200 fps MV....)

I still never know what's going to appeal to me--apparently one basic symptom of rifle loonyism.

Hard to understand the vitriol amongst supposed riflemen toward those three things, eh?

I'm simply not capable of a man bun but I'll still stand with the man bun wearers – they deserve more credit in understanding rifle and ballistic basics more than the cantankerous crowd are affording them.

I know quite a few deer hunters hereabouts who have bought 6.5 Creedmoors over the last few years. The odd thing is, not one man bun among them. This man bun thing must be regional or something ?

Well, the major emphasis for around a century in smokeless rifle cartridges was increased muzzle velocity--which is an easier standard to understand--and to cling to.

BLAH, BALH, BLAH. Here's a newsflash, the thread is about what turns individuals off. I really do not care what you think or say. I got turned off by the continuous hype of the Creed. You didn't, I did. Last time I looked it is still a somewhat free nation where individuals can speak their minds. The bottom line is the Barnes loading data for the Creed and the Swede with a 140 gr bullet are very, very close and there is no advantage for me buying a Creed and setting the Swede aside. I haven't shot factory ammo in decades so I don't care what factory ammo does. For me, the Creed is not something I am buying off on.

Congratulations!

Lots of Redneck-isms I don’t subscribe to, the 30-06 being one of them.

The cartridge stands on its own merit. You’ll NEVER EVER find me owning one.

I have a Savage Axis in 6.5 Creed. Why ? Because I bought it on sale at SW and Savage had a very generous rebate on them at the time. As has been said "Make me an offer I can't refuse." It works well and is very accurate for an inexpensive rifle, and I can change barrels any time I want. What's not to like ?

Another classic example of Naval intelligence. Not.

[quote=ingwe].270 and 6.5 creed Gay and gayer...

Have always wondered why you consider the .270 gay, when it's most famous "advocate" was also a great fan of the 7x57...

JOC was gay ?

It's interesting , every time I tell people that the Creedmoor started out as a target round for National course shooting, I get deer in the headlights look! LOL
Holy smokes they even put the load data on the box!!
I put one together as a target rifle for messing around with shooting sling'irons in our local steel matches and had a lot of fun with it, and it was a super accurate combination out to 1,000 meters.
However as a starting rifle , or a deer rifle for someone who does not handload, it is also a pretty good combination of available ammo and rifles.
But as you stated before MD, it ain't magic when compared to other 6.5's, but then , neither are the other 6.5's, it's the nut behind the bolt that counts most.
Cat

Yep!

Sure you are, it just comes in a different wrapper.

For me...any of the Weatherby's.
I worked as a Elk and Moose guide in the 80's, most of the hunter's were Americans, many were sucked into the Weatherby vortex. ....Good thing I packed a rifle, a .270 wcf or a 30/06. More than a few times I handed it over to the dude hunter.
Those Mark V's were scatterguns...imo.

JOC could have kicked my dog and I'd still like the 270. He has little to do with it for me

For some reason or another, I have never had a burning desire to own a rifle in the 280 Remington. Maybe it stems from Jim Carmichael once writing something to the effect that JOC would have picked the 280 over the 270 had the 280 been around back then. I felt that Carmichael knew he'd always be playing second fiddle to O'Connor, and that was just his way of blowing off steam. But the fact is that the 280 is a fine cartridge, with absolutely no reason to be biased towards it.

For the record, I own both a 270 and a couple of 6.5 Creedmoors and I consider people who DON'T have them to be the ones who are gay. I also have a 30-06, even though I've never killed anything bigger than a groundhog with it, and probably never will. It's really kind of silly to have a bias towards something just because of another person.

Thank-you but I didn't serve in any armed conflict, but I did have several family members that did serve in WWI and II.

Oh for gawd's sake - tell me you've got trouble seeing the forest through the trees without telling me you're having trouble seeing the forest through the trees. Name any of the cartridges you listed above that can be purchased as loaded ammunition (with a wide selection) from nearly any gun shop right now.

You're a handloader as are many here (self-included). Still, it's quite amusing you're not comprehending the 6.5 Creedmoor popularity when likely 75-80% (maybe more) of shooters DO NOT handload. It's not a whiz-bang-performance or comparative thing with most.

I like all cartridges.....from the 458 Win Mag I just acquired, all the way down to the 5.7x28 (that one's tough to reload!), and everything in between. I don't have a 6.5 Creedmoor, but I do have a 6.5x55. I have several 30-06s, but just recently got my first .308 - in an AR platform to boot! I like beautiful walnut stocks and I also like QUALITY synthetic stocks. It's funny that we get bent out of shape about this cartridge is better than that cartridge, this rifle is better than that rifle, but at the end of the day, we ALL like our cartridges and rifles (and handguns and shotguns) so we have something in common.

There's room for everybody in this big world of firearms ownership - just glad I live here in the good ol USA where we're free to choose what we shoot, when we shoot, and mostly where we shoot. it's not like that anywhere else on this rock.....

Another classic example of missing the point. Individual preferences. Perhaps you are too dumb to grasp that concept?

Yes, a person can ruin a cartridge for me.

Way back in the early 1980's we were hunting deer on a property and another hunter was there at the same time.

He scoffed at our 270's and 6.5-06. Of course he was carrying a 7mm Rem Mag. the best thing ever! Our group filled our tags with no muss, no fuss. Guess which cartridge wounded a deer we spent most of the day unsuccessfully tracking.

I know it was the shooter, but to this day bring up 7mm Rem Mag and I cringe.

I have been a looney for a long time, but am slowly getting over it. Have owned rifles in almost every caliber, but have settled on five calibers (seven cartridges) with no interest in expanding.

X2 ..... While I do not own a 6.5CM and prefer the older classic cartridges, I fully concede that the 6.5CM it probably the best cartridge out there right now for Joe Avg. deer hunter esp if he is not a handloader. It really does not have much to offer in ballistic terms but does offer much in the way of practical advantage over some other similar cartridges.

- Large selection of modern rifles (new & used) with proper twist bbls for longer bullets.
- Plenty of good accurate factory ammo available everywhere.
- Plenty of available brass and bullets.
- Fits well in a short action with room to spare for longer bullets out to the lands.
- Accurate
- Easy on the recoiling end.

Some of the above can be applied to other cartridges but not all of them. I do own a 6CM and the only reason for that choice is the bbl twist (custom bbl) and it fits better in a 700SA than the 243.

As much as we hate to admit it, all of us here could live very well with a 30-06, 6.5CM and a 223.

Growing up my father was, and still is, a big fan of short action cartridges. He hates recoil. His favorites are 22-250 Rem, 243 win, and his big bore 308 win with which he killed three elk. I have never been interested in a 22-250 partially because it was always Dad's round. Had a bad hunting experience with the 243 Win failing to anchor two well hit coyotes, so that soured me on the 243.

My tastes run different and I gravitated towards standard action length chamberings such as 30-06, 35 Whelen and 280 Rem. Though lately I've come to appreciate the older European equivalents. 6.5x54 M-S, 8x57mm and 9.3x57mm. Long range hunting has seldom been necessary. I can only think of two game animals I've taken at "long range". I'm not into all the long range hype and don't really have much need for high B.C. heavy for caliber bullets. From 0 to 300 yds even a cast lead bullet will do just fine.

LMBO!!

For years, I shunned the .30-06 Spgfld. Not because there was anything wrong with the cartridge, but because EVERYBODY had one. Everybody in our camp had either a .30-30 or a .30-06.
One guy had a Rem 742 in '06 and a Win M70* in .270.
He killed deer with both.

I wanted to be "different".....so I bought a .270 Win! LOL!

* - it had a Kohlmorgen(sp?) scope on it!

Actually, I'm not sure who turned me ON to the .45-70 when I was in my forties... But ole Elmer was involved. Where I was doing 90+% of hunting was in forested-brush country, and I wanted to do my first ever bear hunt. While I owned a .338 Win Mag in a Sako FS Carbine at the time (and a few other conventional rifles), I thought this was a job (and excuse) to own my first 1895 Marlin in .45-70 - and I was an experienced handloader by then. Long story short: I not only got my first bear with that rifle (and a handloaded 400gr Speer bullet) but have owned a total of ten .45-70s, including 4 Marlins, 3 Ruger No.1s and three other single-shots. It became my favorite cartridge (handloads) in those rifles. My last, a new Ruger No.1 was given a longer throat to accomodate the long monos, and that made it into a short-'n-handy .458 Win in ballistics. It was my favorite rifle for game hunting for 20 years when it got traded on a Ruger No.1 in .458 Win Mag. Not that I wanted more power, but more weight for the same ballistics because at age 80 I wanted some relief from the recoil. Today, that 10 lb Ruger No.1 in .458 WM is my favorite rifle at age 87. Why? Just because in my forties, the .45-70 introduced me to "stoppers", in their tracks! And I needed that where I hunted then... and now!

My 2nd son recently purchased a 6.5CM. A couple weeks ago I was shooting some test loads from my .375 H&H for an up-coming bear hunt, and he was shooting some initial handloads from his new Winchester Low Wall single-shot, asking if I'd chronograph some... Of course, I'd done that many times in the past - but not for that rifle. Anyway, I did. The very crooked lever on that rifle injured my index finger in recoil, and I felt sharp recoil from the narrow, hard butt pad! In all, it was more brutal to shoot than my 9.75 lb, .375 H&H firing 250gr TTSX's at 2900 fps!

Why do we choose what we like? Because of who we are... not because of someone else. My son hates "recoil", so he says.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

It occurs to me that there are too many cartridges available, but being as how we're all loonies, ain't it fun to see how many we can own and argue about.

Some guys think they are super-cool based on the cartridges they choose to hunt with. And it definitely goes both ways.

Yup .... That be true and I'm guilty of that vanity.

Shooting a 257Roberts, 275Rigby, 222Remington, 6CM, 300H&H and other near obsolete cases along with a few wildcats put me in the top of cool in my own eyes. <eye roll>

For me it's usually the rifle I'm after. Whatever it happens to be chambered in can be a plus, but not really a deal breaker either way. If I have to tool up for a new cartridge then here we go again.

I'm assuming that's the 160gr Hornady Interlock? Can you share more details on your experience with that bullet?

Pointless.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation did a survey a few years ago and found that 90% of hunters don't handload....

Most of my cartridge 'history' has run toward the conventional.... BUT, there's just something about the 'odd' er stuff for me, certainly less conventional....

7x57 AI

7x61 Sharpe/Hart

7x65 Brenneke

40-40 Maynard, Paper Patched

Paper Patch 45-70

One that was definitely influenced by another was the 243 Win. Truth be known, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the cartridge..... but I helped trail, hunt down, track, whatever, and NOT recover, several of his deer that were shot with the 243.... Florida Whitetails, not exactly the biggest or toughest Cervidae on the planet......

So I have avoided it..............

Not fair perhaps,

YMMV

8mmx57JS,


Yes. Have seen it fail to reach the ribs on the far side with a shot behind the shoulders on an average whitetail--while on another occasion it broke both shoulders and exited on a similar sized deer. Decided it was too inconsistent....

Phil Shoemaker had similar experiences.

Interesting to hear. Do you believe it was bad batches of bullets?

I've had poor results with the 140gr Sierra gamekings. Had that bullet disintegrate at modest velocity of 2650 fps on a couple of shoulder shots on deer a decade ago. On both occasions two different bucks one at 50 yards the other around 240 yards didn't reach the vitals, needed follow ups to put them down.

Interesting intel - thanks JB!

Hmm, I thought it was just me...160 gr erratic results with 6.5 MS velocities...guess not. I have not done any credible testing, but just because they were cheap I bought a few bags of 156 PPU, tried them in my unfamous 'snowbox' test media, and they performed almost exactly like the very old 156 Norma factory loads used as a control for bullet testing in the MS 1903 and Norwegian Krag. But, admittedly the snowbox is not an animal.

In elk camp about 3 years ago I discovered everyone except a guy who traveled from Illinois was shooting a 6.5mm something. Cartridges included CM, PRC, and RPM. A total of 6, 6.5mm rifles.

Mine was the only one using handloads.

[/quote]Interesting to hear. Do you believe it was bad batches of bullets?

I've had poor results with the 140gr Sierra gamekings. Had that bullet disintegrate at modest velocity of 2650 fps on a couple of shoulder shots on deer a decade ago. On both occasions two different bucks one at 50 yards the other around 240 yards didn't reach the vitals, needed follow ups to put them down.[/quote]

Dunno if was bad batches, but Phil and I were hunting in widely separated parts of the country. Do know that Lapua's Mega 156-grain 6.5 bullet has a jacket with much heavier "sidewalls" that performs very consistently.

Do you recall any regional variances on the 90%? I live in a city of about 100,000 population where there is NO place to buy loading kit, powder, primers, bullets, nothing. There are lots of hunters here but not so many shooters.

I look at it a bit differently.

I know how the belt got there and why it was put there, oh so many years ago. Originally, that belt did serve for positive headspace.

It is just part of the lore and history that the 375 H&H case was later altered in so many ways and developed into 6.5 Rem, 350 Rem, 338, 358, 7 RM, 264 Win, 257 - 340 Wea, 8mm Rem, the STWs, etc, etc.

While I know full well, the belt serves no useful purpose on several my favorite cartridges, it also does no harm. The belt on the 7 STW or the 264 is akin to a familiar roadside attraction from one's childhood. It is familiar and interesting to look upon.

i got into the 6.5CM pretty early, 2008 or '09. i am a handloader and the only thing that i couldn't buy is 6.5CM brass. so i did the next big thing, i took 22-250 brass and necked it up to 6.5-250 brass. yes it was a little short in the neck, but not enuff to be concerned about (.1 or .2" or .01 or .02" short, i can't remember). i believe it was 2012 when i first got Hornady 6.5CM brass. my rifle was a TC Encore in 15", 16 1/4" and 23" MGM barrels in 6.5CM. i shot at targets and deer. i was using 120gr Hornady Amax, 120gr Nosler BT and 140gr Nosler BT (23" barrel) with IMR4350 and Superformance. i've gotten close to a max load in the 120grs(15 and 16 1/4" barrel going and 2657fps) and a middling load for the 140gr (2634fps for the 23" barrel). i was going for accuracy, not speed. the 120gr Amax was around 1/4 - 3/8" group at 100 yards while the 120 and 140gr BT was around 1/2 - 3/4" group at 100 yards. (5 shots/bench at 100 yards)

several years ago, i sold them and bought a 23" MGM barrel in 500 Linebaugh. i kept the 6.5CM dies and brass.

my youngest son has a custom '16 Spanish Mauser in 6.5x55 Swede (Numrich barrel) with a 120gr Nosler BT and IMR4350 or IMR4895 (i forgot) that goes 2763fps. 3/4 - 1 1/4" group at 100 yards (5shots/bench). once again, i'm going for accuracy not speed.

the 260 Remington was never even mentioned in my mind. i already bought the Remington m7 in 7-08 (bought 2 in 1992 or '93) and that is great cartridge. Remington really screwed the pooch with the 260 Rem. it wasn't advertised or pushed by gun writers or gun shops. in my area, there is only one 260 Rem in the safe. it's my neighbor's Rem m7 and he gave hunting years ago.


i have my own range, but i occasionally get out to the public range. remember the AR craze? "everybody" had to have one or two or three or...!!! i didn't. i've had my fun by enlisting into the Army. the M16A2 was my constant companion. thank you, but no. anyway, the 6.5CM rifles outweigh everything else. their given to kids, girlfriends, wives, husbands, boyfriends...whatever. i wish i had a nickel every time someone shot the 6.5CM. i'd be a millionaire!!!!

I don't recall any regional differences, though there no doubt are, as your location proves.

As stated above, the belted magnums mostly came from the venerable .375 H&H Magnum case. The belt was necessary due to that cartridge's use in double rifles. It was convenient, so ammunition designers used it.

I'm all for creating new cartridges using existing case designs. It makes it easier to find cases for various cartridges during shortages or if a cartridge is out of current favor.

I had a .264 Win Mag in the late '80s and early '90s. I could pretty much never find brass for it, but there was always plenty of 7mm Rem Mag brass available to neck down. I don't think I ever had any .264 WM headstamped brass, now that I think about it.

It's why I don't have a problem using not so popular cartridges that are based on extremely common cases. .25-06 Rem, .260 Rem, .280 Rem, and .358 Norma. Factory ammo and sometimes brass for all of them is far from common, especially during shortages, but cases that I can neck up or down for them are always around.

So I look at the belts on magnums as being a result of practical mid-20th century cartridge design.

Funny thread, but it does highlight the emotional connection we shooters have on our toys (which is how it should be).

The world kinda ruined me on the .270 Winchester way back when, and the 6.5 Creed today. I like to be a little different. Back in the day, hunting with a walnut-stocked single shot vs. a stainless steel bolt with a synthetic or laminated stock was the way to go for me. And if I was forced to carry a stainless bolt, it better not be the same .270 everyone else has. Well, for our first anniversary my wife buys me a lefty, stainless steel .270 with a laminated stock. How I wanted to trade that for something else, or at least drop a .280 barrel on it just to be different.

Over the years I've settled down some and learned to accept that when it comes to actually hitting the field, it's hard to beat an all-whether .270. Once the lead is airborne, it doesn't matter how efficiently it was sent, what platform it was sent by, or who may have sent similar projectiles before you.

Still can't bring myself to get a Creedmoor, though.

As much as I absolutely have no use for the 6.5 Creed, had it been introduced first I might own a few. Were I starting fresh, I might buy a Creed rather than a 260 Rem.

As it is, there are four 260s in the safe. Two Ruger Mk IIs and two Remingtons with 8 inch twist, and 2.950 Accurate mags. I have FL dies and neck bushing dies in 260, 300 pieces of Alpha brass, 200 pieces of Lapua brass, and over 500 pieces of mixed commercial and LC brass loaded.

The 260 may not do anything better than the Creed, but it does it just as well for me. Ammo in the store is irrelevant to ME. The last time I bought a loaded CF round in town was in 1982 when I was out of town for three weeks, and bought a new 25-06 with two boxes of cartridges. to use that weekend.

I am not going to toss the 260s into the schitter, just so I can chase a newer fad. But, if I were to stumble over another 8 inch twist Remington in 260, there's a good chance it would come home.

That's the same boat I'm in. I was a 260 shooter before it came out so there hasn't been much desire to switch over but if starting fresh again I'd go with the 6.5 CM without a doubt. The one 260 I still have left has an aftermarket barrel with a long throated chamber and a Wyatt mag to get it right. The CM has the same functionality out of the box minus a few insignificant feet per second.

I don't think anyone can ruin a cartridge for me. We seem to be hung on discussing the 6.5 CM, but I don't particularly dislike any cartridge. There are a lot of cartridges out there I don't have a use for, but I don't dislike them.

I have used the 260 Remington since it came out. I currently have one left that has attained favorite rifle status in my safe. If it was stolen tonight, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another if I could find one. If I saw a 6.5 CM or 6.5X55 I liked before I found the 260 Rem, I might get either of them too and be completely satisfied.

Anything named Creedmoor. Probably cuz I'm a stubborn old fart that knows he's wrong.

Anything RUM, SAUM, WSM, WSSM.

Anything other than 5.56/.223 for an AR.......especially hate .300 AAC/BO. Unless watching Bubba KBs youtube. Just a matter of time with that round.

Oh, yeah. 30 Super Carry and 5.7x28. Sooner hold my nose and buy a 6.8 Western.

Last, the 3" 28 ga. Thank you Benelli for a screen door on a submarine.

Yep!

Don't hate it, but have no idea what advantage it might have over the 2-3/4" 28.

Around 20 years ago I wrote an article for Handloader magazine, after trying an experiment: Here in Montana we have nine upland birds, aside from Merriam's turkeys. They range in size from doves to sage grouse.

Generally the shooting ranges are shorter earlier in the season, which back then started on the first Saturday or Sunday in September, can't remember which. The early birds were mostly young of the year, and smaller and tighter-holding than later on--when some of 'em tend to get up farther away, especially the open-country birds from Hungarian partridge to sage grouse. They're also bigger, and have thicker skin and more feathers, so tend to be harder to drop.

The experiment was to use the 28-gauge until it didn't work anymore--and I never quit using it. The birds taken included 6-pound sage grouse, taken at ranges out to 47 yards, and wild pheasants at ranges out to 40 yards, which is as far as hunters can consistently hit . The loads used varied, of course, but one of the things I realized is that while the the 28's usually considered a "small bird" gauge, for doves and quail with smaller shots size, it works well on larger birds--because they "catch" more shot pellets than smaller birds.

Yes.
30-06 due to hearing so much about it as a kid.
270, City Cousins all had 270 760s. Their lips were more productive than their
hunting skills. They soured me on pump rifles too.


Was 40 before I got an '06. In a 760!🙃
At a "gotta buy it price".

Darn thing hit my accuracy requirements with very half assed loads chosen to use
odd ball components and Lee Dipper charges. Never loses zero.

Kills as good as a 308.

Head stamps aren't magic. Bigger is better, good bullets required, faster is better as long as the good bullet requirement is met.

I bought CM's after gifting my 6.5 Swede to a nephew who had completed putting himself through college. Come to think of it, I did the same with a 7x57mm for a niece who did the same.

Hmmm... guess I need to go out and buy me a 7mm PRC...

I traded off my Ruger 77, tang safety in 220 Swift for a BLR 308 in 83. I have wanted another 22 centerfire ever since, but I was not going to buy another 220 Swift. Started looking very hard at the 224 TTH (22/6mm). Held off due to 6mm brass availability uncertainty. When the 22 Creedmoor surfaced, I thought now there's a viable cartridge. I just shipped my rifle to the gunsmith this morning for a 22 Creedmoor custom barrel fitting.

I am thankful the Creedmoor craze produced this 22 caliber off-shoot. But, I have zero interest in the parent cartridges.

I had a 224 TTH for a while, along with a .223 WSSM. They have just about exactly the same powder capacity, and loading data is basically interchangeable, though the factory .223 WSMs were hampered by the 1-10 twist. (Dunno what Winchester was thinking, but do know more than one gun writer advised them to go with a faster twist.) Did an article for Handloader on both rifles, which with some changes and updating also became Chapter 18 in in the first Big Book of Gun Gack, "A Pair of Fast .22s."

The .22 Creedmoor is basically a .22-250 Improved, which definitely helps with brass availability. But it doesn't have quite the powder capacity as either the TTH or WSSM.

Is somebody forcing you to use 3" shells ?

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just asking the question because I don't have experience with bullets at 223 WSSM velocities. But if they had gone to a faster twist, with the velocities of the lighter bullets, could they have started having bullet integrity problems at those kinds of RPM's? 4000 fps in a 9t is 320k RPM, that's seriously fast

Yeah, there can be "problems" with lighter bullets at such velocities--especially when shooting prairie dogs in summer temperatures.

But so what? Neither cartridge is really ideal for PD shooting, despite Winchester promoting the WSSM as the ultimate PD round when it appeared. This is partly because they burn out barrels quickly, and partly because I have yet to see a stouter varmint bullet such as Nosler Ballistic Tips come apart even from hot barrels.

Both rounds work even better with heavier bullets, whether for varmints or big game--partly because they hang onto velocity better. But many American hunters are still obsessed by faster muzzle velocities.

Agree on the Ballistic Tip being stout as a varmint bullet. I cannot remember if I tried any in the wssm or not.


Had good luck with 65 grain Gamekings until the chrome turned loose in the bore.

Browning exchanged that rifle for same in 22-250.

I might regret this but what’s the problem with the 300 BO?

I've only used a 300 BO once with a borrowed rifle but was pleasantly surprised with the results below. When I bought my Wilson Combat, I decided to go for a bit more power & got a 300 HAM'R instead. This is the only recently designed cartridge I own. Most of the other ones in my safe (6.5x55, 275 Rigby, 303 British, 9.3x74r, 405 Winchester, etc.) predate the creation of my 375 H&H cartridge in 1912. But I like them all regardless of whether they're old or new. They're all fun to shoot.

PS - Geaux Tigers!

Pretty much my own thoughts on the .243 Win.
Lot'sa deer have fallen to the .243. Lot'sa deer have been lost because an inexperienced hunter was started with a .243.

I'm of the opinion that the .243 is best suited to an experienced hunter.
Hey, I killed my biggest buck (156#) with a .22 Hornet.
I would not start a hunter with a .22 Hornet!

IME, if you're a pisspoor shooter the cartridge you're using isn't a factor.

That makes sense. With such a wide range of bullet weights in 22 cal, at the extreme ends of cartridge size, whether it's a 22 Hornet or 223 WSSM, they can't be everything to everybody.

Your loss.

Lots of deer have been lost because an inexperienced hunter was started with a 30-06 as well.

I am never lead around by my feelers and others really don't effect my decisions. With that said I try to be more graceful in my approach to others every day and hope I effect others in a positive way.

I have had 2 30-06's and sold them both. The cartridge likely is the end all be all of cartridges however I prefer less recoil. The 6.5 creedmoor is my newest and latest end all be all cartridge. Not because it's magic but because it fits the recoil department and 6.5 bullets seem to penetrate very well. I really don't need anything of significant horse power to effectively hunt the game I hunt which is up to elk sized game

I suppose you could ruin one for yourself by poor shooting or choosing the wrong bullet.

“I shot him four times right in the chest and he just ran off! I need a bigger gun.” Well, maybe, once in a great while, but not as often as that’s claimed.

Many years ago I actually met a guy who claimed the .308 Winchester was a lousy deer round, because he'd shot a whitetail "right in the heart" and never found the buck....

While I wouldn’t say the blackout is exciting it feels like a useful chambering. Fun as hell to shoot subs with a suppressor. Kids recently got a model 7 so chambered and while it wouldn’t have been my first choice I have no doubt it will be a low recoil deer killing machine with supers and when I get a can we’ll already have a bolt gun gun ready to run subs. I’m not mad about it.

GEAUX TIGERS. Only 10 days to go until football season…

The Ham'r is something I am interested in for sure.

It had more to do with pizz poor shooting or too tough of a bullet than the 243 not being adequate.

I have killed deer with everything from 22 LR to 7mm and 300 Mags.

Have killed 90% of them with a 6mm Remington and an 85 grain Sierra Varminter SP. Can't tell any difference when hit in the same spot.

Even some hits that weren't perfect with a 22-250 resulted in rather quick kills due to a softish bullet really upsetting their apple carts.

IMO the 243/6mm gets a bad reputation because everyone thinks you need a railroad spike tough bullet to kill a 250# or less animal. Get a semi soft bullet and quick kills are the norm in smaller bores.

I agree.

I've set up my nieces with a 243 Win, had them shooting last summer to get comfortable with the gun. They were shooting it pretty good, so when fall came around, I took them out in the youth season. First afternoon out, a mule buck was spotted, 175 yard shot, lung shot, dropped on the spot. Clean pass through with the 100gr corelokt. This spring the same thing happened with a big 7 foot chocolate phase black bear. 150 yards, double lung with pass through, bear dropped on the spot. I've seen good results with other youth I've taken out as well and have a neighbor who took a bull moose down with a single shot from a 243.

I personally prefer the 257 Roberts and 6.5's over the 243 win but in saying that, I wouldn't feel handicapped if the 243 was all I had.

It really comes down to good shot placement and using a decent bullet and the animal wont make it far. Aim small, hit small.

Bear squared 7".

Would not be an issue but for people failing to keep their 5.56 uppers far from their .300 BO ammunition.

A now deceased cousin swore the 308 wasn't any good.
"It don't kill like my 06. Had one, lost a couple deer, got rid of of it."


Might have been true, might not have been his shooting (he sucked).
Scope? Bullet issue?
Damn sure wasn't the headstamp.

ndIt does not take much for some folks to form an opinion. It takes less for many to convert those opinions to iron clad fact.

Dad hunted most of his life with a Rem 760 in 30-06. He carried 150 gr Silvertip for deer and 180 gr Silvertip for elk. His hunting partner was a Korean War Vet, and hunted with a bolt action in 308.

One day, about 1968, they spotted some deer at 800 yds or a bit further. They both started lobbing rounds in that direction. By his fourth shot, Dad had walked rounds on target and killed a deer. His buddy never got the range.

Despite my explanation that there was virtually no difference between his factory loaded '06 and the 150 gr 308, Dad was convinced the 308 was a lesser round. "He couldn't even reach a deer at 1/2 mile."

When I suggested it had something to do with the guy behind the trigger, and his ability to compensate for range. Dad claimed nonsense, the guy was an Army trained marksman. The fault was a vastly inferior round.

I wish I could give you an actual field report but it was one of my later acquisitions & I haven’t had opportunities to test it on various game yet. So far it’s only been to the range. I’m shooting 130gr Speer Hot-Cor bullets & from a statistical standpoint, the numbers look promising for the moderate distances I hunt at. It’s definitely a fun gun to shoot.

I don’t have enough experience with other rounds to compare it to cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. But it seemed like a legitimate effort to fire a .30 caliber bullet with as much power as possible using a standard 5.56 bolt. I was intrigued enough to veer away from my preferred single-shot falling blocks & try something totally different. So far, it’s been a fun experiment.

My point is the .243 and it's light bullets are perfectly capable of killing deer ... in the hands of an experienced shooter who is aware that bullet placement is key.

Too many times, beginning hunters are started on the .243 and don't have enough experience to not rush their shot or aren't cognizant of bullet placement in the excitement of the moment.

You are correct. Hunters lose deer every year due to poor shot placement ... regardless of bullet caliber.

"Bullet diameter cannot compensate for poor shot placement."

....and even in the hands of a competent and experienced hunter, old "Murphy" kicks in and an "Aw s#¡t!" happens.

So you've unsuccessfully spoke out of both sides of your mouth. You'd have done better admitting your first post was out in left field.

He may well have made the shot as claimed, but simply couldn’t track. Long ago my son shot one “right through the heart” with a .270 and Barnes 130gr TSX. Came over to me for help finding it. When I got to where the deer had stood, it looked like a crime scene. Problem was my son is red-brown colorblind and that blood was invisible to him. Actually, the deer was on a slope when shot and I think he mostly rolled rather than ran down the slope, leaking like a sieve the whole way. Hunting with a crossbow for five seasons has really helped me become a better tracker. My hits have generally been higher than I prefer and that of course means little or no blood for a while. Had to learn to look for really tiny spots on weed stalks and down in the ground debris until the internal bleeding reached the exits. Some simply don’t look, or look hard enough, expecting Bambi to just flop.

Interesting, heart shot with no carcass.

Hmmm…

DF

That was kinda my point with the “four shots through the chest” line. How do you know?

In all fairness I’m pretty sure O’Connor made the same point a time or two…….

My son’s buck was just out of sight due to the curve of the slope he rolled down, in the right direction for a change. My deer almost always travel the wrong way.

I don't hate any cartridge, but I did avoid the .30-06 for many years simply because my father and his buddies and so many USA hunters endlessly bragged about the virtues of the .30-06. I eventually got one, and found that it killed deer and bears and elk and moose just as well as my .308 or 7x64 or 8x57JS or .303 or several other cartridges of similar middle-power & middle bore size. I'll keep using the .30-06 because I really like the custom rifle it is chambered in. But for most of my purposes I think the .308 is "just right". Not that it's actually any better at killing game an any of the cartridges on the previous list.

I've avoided the 7mm Remington magnum and 300 Winchester magnum because they seem to be promoted by people who think they offer more killing power or range but who don't actually have the shooting skill to use that supposed advantage, or who don't have the hunting skill required to get close.

If I need more power than .308 for bigger critters I've jumped up to .35 Whelen with 250 grain bullets or 9.3x62 with 286 gr. or .375 H&H with 300 grain. Perfectly satisfied with that choice.

i occasionally have that problem too. two years ago, i shot a 4pt at 53 yards broadside. i was using my Winchester m94 in 35/30-30 with 200gr RCBS FN GC and 2400/tuft of dacron going 1726fps. i was going behind the shoulder shot, but i hit in in the upper lungs. the deer jogged about 10 - 15 yards, but the deer was behind a big tree and i could only see the hind quarters. i could hear the sucking sounds of the deer's chest caused by my bullet. 5 to 10 seconds later he fell over dead. when i was done gutting him, i went to the spot where i first shot him and there was hair with no blood. i tracked him and there was no blood till he dropped.

Out in left field? Nah! I'm spot on.

But you are entitled to your opinion. 😉

In a word, no. Like Pappy, I tend to aim high and it might take a bit for the blood to flow.

He may well have made the shot as claimed, but simply couldn’t track. [/quote]

Maybe, but after talking to him for about 45 seconds I realized the odds were far stronger that he was just an idiot.

Yes I've seen this. Took an 6x6 bull elk with two .243 cal bullets in one of hams that had very shallow penetration and one expanded 243 bullet and two broadleads I'm his spinal area encased in tough white scar tissue. This guy still had a herd he was tending to when I caught up to him. 308win thru the lungs and he ran 300-400yds on a steep slope then expired.

He may well have made the shot as claimed, but simply couldn’t track.

Maybe, but after talking to him for about 45 seconds I realized the odds were far stronger that he was just an idiot.

Well, as they say, sometimes the simplest explanations…….😛

some years back I might have to go look to get exact but probably 15 at least maybe 20 I loaded up a bunch of ballistic tips and I don't know if they were 130s or 140 for a co-worker and a 270. he come back from his mule deer hunting and kind of pissy at me that all they did was punch holes in the deer and did not open up... I replied don't gut shoot him when that won't happen it's kind of pissed him off..

Not one person - but many many people!

I loath the 458LOTT not because of any shortcomings of the cartridge, but because everyone tells me that l should get rid of my .458WM and buy a LOTT!
Really?
My .458WM pushes out a 550gn Woodleigh at 2100fps and a 450gn Woodleigh Hydro at 2300fps which hardly put it in the
pea-shooter class...
I'm so, so sick of constantly being told l need a LOTT I now absolutely loath that cartridge...

Russ

No, I am adult enough to make mine own decisions.

They were expanding regardless of where he was hitting.

On a side note the Varmint and Hunting Ballistic Tips are 2 different animals.

For me, it’s easily a 243. Had a friend in our hunting club while I was in college who I helped blood trail a number of 243 shot deer, never recovering a single one. He insisted it was a deer killer, using only the very lightest varmint hollow points.

He was invited to join another club after blood trailing a dozen or so.

I’ve held that unfounded prejudice my entire life because of that guy.

Yes….I know….a 243 will kill deer.🙄

pretty sure it was 140s. and I do not believe they make the varmint version in a 270...

A friend has about 6,000 ac of his ranch he leases to a hunting club..he keeps a voluntary 'logbook' of the buck harvest, most of the hunters in the club check in with him when they are done for the season. I will tell you...he is no fan of the .243.

Man, there's a lot of opinions about bullets.

I never let others influence what cartridge I shoot . Liking the platform that contains the cartridge is more important to me . I had two Remington KS 700s in 7 Mag that shot accurate with about anything I fed them . They took quite a few Mule Deer at moderate to long range no problem . I have also had several rifles chambered in 280 AI . It seems every body brags them up yet the difference between them and a 7 Rem mag does not amount to a pinch of schit. Now I am older and have found that standard non magnum cartridges work just fine . 270 Win and 7MM08 are two I really like . I am even thinking of building a 6.5 Grendel . Anyone who lets some one else influence what they shoot and hunt with should probably take up golf .

i used to shoot alot of deer with 130gr Nosler BT in my Ruger #1 in 270 Winchester. i was using a max load of IMR4320 that was around 3000fps. most of deer i shot with it were at ranges of 30 - 40 yards. the BT was like a hand-grenade, it goes in and it fragments on the lungs and heart, lung soup with chunks of heart. you lose alot of shoulder meat that way. then one day, i see a buck at around 125ish yards. i line my sights up on a shoulder shot and bang, dead deer. what surprised me is that bullet went out of the deer. when i gutting it, the top part of the lungs were smashed along with the aorta and it takes 2 ribs on the way out. hmm...i wonder....the whole way home. i have a Hornady book with ballistic charts (volume 2) and the bullet was going 2800ish fps when it impacted. hmmm......slow the bullet down? hmmm.....next year i got a doe with a slower Nosler BT (2800ish fps) at 30ish yards. i look at the doe and i find that it has an exit wound. i load the Nosler BT and the Hornady SST to only get 2800+/-fps. now i use BT/SST and 2800fps or less on the 25-06, 270, 7 Mauser, 7-08, 308, '06, 6.5x55 and 6.5CM and they still exit the deer.

i like a blood trail if it runs. it makes it easier to follow.

Yup. Same thinking, I shot one in WV with a 270 and 130 grain bullets at 2650 fps. Perfect.

I am sorta sick of people telling me their favorite cartridge breaks the rules of physics, but overall I try not to let idiots ruin it for me.

Correct.

Does he vet these hunters and see how they can shoot or how bad they get buck fever?

Nope. I can make up my own mind objectively.

Just curious: How do you do that with cartridges you've never used before?

I shot one with a .270 and 130gr ILs loaded to presumeably 2800-2900 and it failed to exit, but actually knocked hair off his ribs on the far side. No blood because I was shooting offhand and hit him right about the centerline, so once I found the hair I followed him and found him lying in a pool of water in a ravine. His lungs were soup; found the bullet sloshing around in the blood once I pulled the mess out. Perfect performance, except for the lack of an exit. If I had failed to find that hair and follow his tracks in the leaves, I might have easily assumed I’d missed, or that a .270 wasn’t enough, IF it’d been my first time using one.

That deer was shot on the second morning of a real frog-strangler, and his winter coat was as soaked as I was. I’ve often wondered if that affected the expansion of that Hornady or if it was just the close range and velocity.

i really dislike just finding hair or a drop of blood. i like swaths of bright red blood on the ground and in the trees and brush. i really, really dislike tracking a fatally wounded deer that left hair or drop of blood.

the 130gr Hornady Interlock bullet did preform exactly as you say, the bullet expanded like a mushroom.

I spent a couple hours beating myself up, convinced I’d muffed a snowbird opportunity. My soggy son came over to pick me up and go back to the house, but I decided to give the ground where the deer stood one more going over. That tuft of hair was a good ways behind that spot. Never seen that before. Anyway, I perked up and started following the path he’d taken. Not one drop of blood, just disturbed leaves and a dead buck in about a foot and a half of rainwater, about 150 yards away. Lots of fun getting him out of that ravine with all the downed trees and pools of water. That was the last one I shot in Mineral
County, 2011. Typical scraggly-ass 8-point for that area.

When I was a teenager I hunted with borrowed guns, mostly a .300 Savage W/O recoil pad and 20 ga. pump shotgun W/O recoil pad.

I had a chance to go deer hunting with my bud and his dad on their family farm and they had m94 30-30s. On the trip his Dad asked what rifle I borrowed and I said 30-06 and he laughed. Then ever once in a while, he would giggle and say something like the smallest guy has to use the biggest gun, etc..
I didn't get what was funny, I had checked the sights at a gun range and remember being surprised it kicked less with a recoil pad than the 20 ga. I was used to. 30-06 Recoil with a pad didn't seem like any big deal at all.

Before I bought my first rifle in 1966 I had studied ballistic charts from the Shooters Bible and determined I wanted a .270 for west Texas semi-open and windy plains, so that's what I bought. Ive mostly shot 25-06, .270, and 7 RM. Then about 5 years ago the Gander Mountain store had a going out of business sale and I stopped by specifically to buy a stainless Tikka in .308 Win. and they were out of those but had one in 30-06 and I bought it. Did notice the factory pad was hard, so replaced it with a screw on "Limbsaver" pad. No recoil problem after that, and was surprised how accurate it is, and I like it a lot!
Since owning it, Ive noticed some 30-06 predjudice, people seem to lose excitement over this caliber. I don't care it makes a good size entry hole and I'm keeping it.

I've never let some knob talk me out of using or buying what I want.

Also never followed the mainstream or popularity crazes.

That's why I own rifles chambered to .222, .22-6mm, 6mm Rem, 257 Robert's, 6.5x57mm Mauser, 280 Rem., 300 Savage, 7.62x54r, 30 Gibbs, 303 British, 8x57mm Mauser, 33 WCF, .358 Win., .358 Norma, 9.3x57, 9.3x64, 9.5x57, .375 Whelen Imp., 38-40, 450 Alaskan, and 470 Nitro Express.

I do own several. 308's, a couple of 30-06's, and wife shoots a .270.

back in early '80s to early '90s, they used to say if you didn't hunt with '06, you didn't hunt period!!! i was hunting with 30-30 at that time. i was around 18yo when i bought the Remington m700 Mountain Rifle in '06. i killed a few deer with it, traded it and bought a Rem m700 BDL in '06. traded it and got a Savage m116 in '06, traded it for a Rem m700 ADL, traded it and got CDL, traded it and two Rem m7 in 7-08. (i killed deer on every '06 and 7-08). i was young and dumb once. i didn't have an '06 for years, but now i got two of them. Remington m760 (dad's gun RIP) and Arisaka Type 99 with a Lyman aperture sight). i know it will still kill deer, but the '06 seems to me, well boring. the 270 Win (which i love), 6.5CM, 30-30, 45-70, 308 Win, 25-06, 243 Win and everything like it to me is boring. i like my calibers to be different. 30-40 Krag, 444 Marlin, 35/30-30, 9.3x57, 500 Linebaugh, 30 Remington, 7.65x53, 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x55, 30 and 357 Herrett and whatever else are different. yes, i handload all of them. i haven't fired a factory round for years. i've been using cast bullets for about 12 years now, but i will break that spell using a 30 Herrett and 30 Remington (130gr Speer HP and 150gr Speer FN).

while i say boring, i am just stating my opinion. you can be different in your opinion. you could say that the '06 is next best thing since sliced bread and i'll believe it.

Nothing is more boring than the 308. Still I have one

i had a Remington m760 in 308, but i didn't get bored, the 760 lost all of its luck when i shot my first and only black bear. i shot a few deer with it before, but nothing after the bear. i go deer hunting with the 760 and see nothing. the next day, i would go spot and shoot deer with something else. i would do that for about 7 or 8 years, but unfortunately, i had a stroke and my right arm/leg are useless. i'm a left handed shooter, so that did't bother me. what bothered me is that i can't do a pump action anymore, so i sold it. i bought (after my stroke) at an auction, a Remington m14 in 30 Rem and no, i can't pump it. i bought it because of its spiral flutes on the magazine tube. i always wanted to buy it and that day i did. then i went ebay and bought a Lyman Tang sight for $40 (about 5 years ago). a tang sight, as i later found out, is around $200 - $300 on ebay.


Lyman R14 tang aperture sight with screws



https://oldarmsofidaho.com/product/vintage-lyman-r14-tang-peep-sight-remington-model-14-141/

Cool gun. Sorry to hear about your health

well, i learned how to sit and wait for the deer to show up .

Thats right, stay in the fight.
Essayons buddy

Over forty years ago I was working in a sawmill in northern BC as a millwright. During a cartridge conversation over lunch in the millwright lunch room, George stated how much more powerful the 308 Norma was compared to the 300 WinMag . George was 15 years my senior, besides being a good millwright , he was considered the best hunter in the area. Years later when a P-17 30-06 canoe rifle had headspace issues, it was rechambered to 308Norma. When offered a 300WM Browning BBR (early A-bolt) for a reasonable price, I passed. I had the much better 308Norma.

Stick to tried and true performers, ignore all the comments of silly people, enjoy your hunts

A lot of great comments in this thread.

Personally, I tend to stick with the classics. There are a few 'newer' cartridges that I am interested in learning more about, though. One, which has not been mentioned in this thread, is the 6.5x47 Lapua. Though designed for competition, I see no reason why it wouldn't be a great choice for hunting as well. For a time, I was also interested in the 7mm SAUM, but that seems to have been just a passing phase - never purchased one. I do keep returning to the 6.5x47, however - that cartridge has held my attention for a while now. I guess the reason I never built one is due to the fact that I already have a 6.5x55 SE in a CZ 550 American that I'm rather fond of - it's superbly accurate, if a bit heavy.

The only cartridge I can say I'm not particularly fond of is the 6.5 Creedmoor. If pressed to answer the question "why," I'd probably be compelled to say that it's due to the extreme gayness of the cartridge - I'm pretty sure this fact has been scientifically proven - or something. Additionally, I already have a .270 WCF and I'm not looking for additional gay. I'm sure y'all can well imagine how pleased I was when the shockingly gay 6.5 CM came out and siphoned much, if not all, the gayness away from my .270. Notwithstanding ballistics, and in IMHO, that fact alone lends a great deal of credence to the cartridge.

Can't say as any one person has ever ruined one. I suppose the opposite is true for me. The main reason my first centerfire purchased with my own money was a .30-06 was because my father, someone whose opinion meant a great deal to me, had one and thought highly of it. He didn't have any compelling reasons for liking it versus something else, he just had one and hunted with it. When I started routinely punching tags with mine it just cemented in my mind that it was a great round.

Probably the same reason why my buddies boys both shoot 270 WSMs

I have drifted away from the .30-06 for years but all of my favorites (6mm-06, .30 Gibbs, .35 Whelen, .400 Whelen) share the same lineage. I guess it is just more satisfying to make something very simple (.30-06) and turn it into a major PITA (.30 Gibbs) only to end up at exactly the same place (dead critters at the same ranges).

The only thing I never wanted was a .270. Not because of anybody, but because I had an '06 and a 7x57 and just felt no need. I have two .270s, one because it was a Wal-mart left-over screaming deal on a Ruger #1, the other because it belonged to Dad's good friend and neighbor, and I bought it from his widow. And both have proven me correct. I didn't want a .270, because I had that area well covered.

I can't believe Walmart had a Ruger #1. Wild

They had two. A .243 and a .270. I was late for the .243 (another chambering I never wanted) but I basically stole the .270 eight months later.

So just like 150+ different cartridges. Check.

These two posts could’ve been posted by me! The 270 is actually a fine little cartridge……but, Jack O’Conner ruined any chance of me ever having one! memtb

If the designer of said cartridge did a pizz poor job, then, yes, a person can ruin a cartridge for me. Otherwise, no.

Can't believe that in 12 pages the 30-30 was only mentioned once and that was in passing. All my life my two BIL shouted from the pulpit all you need is a thutty-thutty and I heard more of it from the woods crowd in MS. I loved the rifles but couldn't bear having one because of their chatter. Now 70 years later I finally own two and a 32 Special. I may try and kill a deer with one this year just to say I did. Otherwise, my favorite is the 300 Savage, 6.5 Swede, and the 25-06. All that really matters is a good bullet going around 2700 fps placed where it oughta be.

All said I never had a 270, 30-06, or 308 either until last year. I may hunt with the 270 and the 308 as it and 06 are left handed. Can't carry them all to the woods though.

A final note on the 25-06. I just about gave up on it became of the Sierra Gamekings I persisted in using because they were the most accurate. They were also the lousiest performing blowing up when you needed toughness. I finally found my way with Noslers and Hornady Interlocks.

Well the 30-30 certainly was never going to be mentioned by me because it's my personal favorite

It is for many....they just won't admit it just like me I had a prejudice because of all the rants about it. I was raised in the open prairies and tended toward more of the 6mm/25-06 so stuck to that mentality until the last decade or so. But I've watched the 30-30 do its thing and yep its a good one to have.


I

Your a loser for owning a 270win. I'm so sorry you have such a POS No.1 must be real tough owning it. That's like me winning the Powerball😁😁😁

i was 13yo when i got my first rifle (1972 Winchester m94 top eject) i ever owned. i borrowed a Win 94 in 32 Win Special before i got the 30-30. i can't the number of deer it killed. i sent to JES Reboring and the m94 came back a 35/30-30. i have killed 3 deer with that rifle.

A good number of Creediots have some of the biggest mouths and attitudes out here about how the 6.5 Creedmoor is the most modern, most accurate long range cartridge ever designed, like ever man !

I've offered to do a shootout at 1 mile, from one hilltop to another, both dressed in blaze orange and stand wide open while we take turns with shots at one another,

I even offered to let them take the first shot at me with their superior long range modern marvel 6.5 Creedmoor with the ELDM or ELDX "super high" bc modern super bullets, their choice

My choice was gonna be the super hard recoiling hard to shoot accurately useless magnum 338 EDGE with 300 gr Berger OTM bullets

Not one of those Creediots have accepted the duel

Swamplord, I don't know the people your talking to but you make that bet down here and by the 2nd or 3rd shot you would be dead, there are dozens of guy's that shoot 6.5 of one flavor another at mile regularly. you might want to rethink that deal. Rio7

At the same time, anyone who remotely shares any of these thoughts must have schitttforbrains. You're shooting "challenge" has to be one of the most dumbasss things every posted here, and that's saying something. Not surprised it came from you, however.

Another silly flex by Mr. Testosterone.

by "out here" I meant the local gundummies in my area who've been zombied to believe the Creed is a technologically supreme, long range ballistic missile, you don't even aim with it, just point in the general direction and fire, it's so accurate because the modern case design has the highest bc like no case ever invented before, and the 143 gr ELDX bullet has almost zero drop n drift out to one mile, perfect for elk past 1500

btw, all humor aside.. I'd never duel with PRS shooters or any comp shooters with any cartridge, it very unwise, ha !

I see the other two boomerds have no sense of humor, that old timers E.D. sure can sour a dudes mood, lmao !

That sounds more like something a woman would do, making a decision based on emotions and feelings about what somebody else said.

If you say things like 'that cartridge is gay', I got news for you. It ain't the cartridge.

I've never owned a .270. Not because the Campfire told me it's ghey, but because of the weird diameter - .277...WTH, where'd they get that number? Japan maybe, or so I read somewhere.

I've also never had a 7 mag, and that is partly because of bias. By my observations, they're often fielded by the clueless. Kinda like my uncle's drunk buddy who showed up to deer camp back in the '70's with one of those big ol' Western W49 Bowies on his belt. Big hardware, no idea how to employ it or whether it's appropriate to the task.

Would like to know where you read that, because it's BS.

One reason Winchester decided on .277" is because at the time there were a bunch of Mexican military Mausers in 7x57 available for pretty cheap prices, especially in the Southwest. There were also some Remington Rolling Blocks in 7x57, which couldn't take much pressure.

Winchester guessed that if the bullet of their cartridge was a "real" 7mm some of those rifles would be rechambered to their new round. (They'd also developed a similar cartridge with a .287" diameter bullet for a new bolt rifle they planned to introduce in Europe in 1912, but WWI interfered. Instead they waited until 1925 to introduce the .270 in the Model 54.)

You can read about much of this in the 1999 book W.R.A Co., Headstamped Cartridges and The Variations, Volume I, by Daniel L. Shuey.

I don't recall where it was, I'm going to have to do some digging (based on your response I'm going to say definitively that it wasn't one of your articles ). Your explanation makes a lot more sense than the Nippon connection theory. Thanks for the heads-up on the title, sounds like something pertinent to my interests.

It's a great book--and I was turned onto it by Dave Scovill, when he was editor of Handloader and Rifle. Don't know what they're going for these days, but am sure glad to have it in my library.

Incidentally, there's a photo of the prototype rifle Winchester planned to introduce in Europe--and it has a cocking piece like the 1903 Springfield.
Might post a photo here later....

I guess I’m a little slow, but how would you rechamber a .284 bore rifle to a .277 bore cartridge?

I guess I’m a little slow, but how would you rechamber a .284 bore rifle to a .277 bore cartridge?[/quote]

Winchester wanted to prevent the possibility of rechambering weaker-action 7x57 rifles, which is why they didn't introduce a .284-bore cartridge--instead coming up with the .270.

What I find interesting is that the 270W is the "true 270" (7mm=.275"), I'm told it's the way the British measure the lands and not the projectile. Seems bassakwards to me but then again, they drive on the wrong side of the road (there's a theory on that too!).

I wouldn’t say anyone ruined a cartridge for me, but incessantly bringing them up when specifically not asked about them is kinda nauseating.

For instance, when someone is asking about a .243, and only a .243, there’s always a few who have to let everyone know the 7-08 is a better choice, ( 7-08 Tourette’s is what I call it ). Kinda made me overlook a 7-08 on purpose.

The 6.5 CM, for the same reasons. I’d rather have any other .264.

The .270, I just can’t do it. I can’t. I could never mention an ‘06 without hearing about it. Plus it’s gay.

Exactly.

Simple answer:
No.


That's the mark of an idiot.

Such simple minds are what evil politicians love. No one is easier to control then someone who is that easy to manipulate. This would be only 1 example out of many. The cartridge/bullet/gun/ scope or what-ever is still doing the job and all that like to use it are still using it, but the idiot refuses to gain any benefits for a reason that has nothing at all to do with the tools. I dislike communists, but if a communist is using a good micrometer to measure tight tolerances, would I refuse to use that tool because he does? Some idiots would, and that proves the point. I am white, and I use micrometers every day but to listen to idiots now "math is racist".
Such is the way the mind of an idiot or any emotional non-thinker works. (or perhaps I should say "doesn't work")

To be totally honest about it such a mind is EXACTLY how anti-gunners and anti hunters are controlled and herded. They can spin you a story that is outlandish, but the idiots want to think it's true and so they can focus their hate on something or someone.

That's how idiots are and it's not possible to reason with them because they have no capacity to reason. Cancer kills the body it's in. But trying to "talk to the cancer" and tell it that the actions it's undertaking is going to kill it too is the same as trying to reason with an idiot.

Cancer and idiots are very harmful to all because both attack even that which they benefit from, and reason is not effective to them at all.

Bump ttt

I think Mule Deer put it best when he said (to paraphrase) that for a cartridge to be a favorite it must “fulfill our personal compendium of needs.”

Both logically and emotionally to varying degrees, we will choose our favorites and cull out what we consider the bummers. Not sure if the rest of you think so but there is a list of purgatorial cartridges which are neither a favorite nor a cull for me.

I’ve got my personal, boring favorites based upon my experiences and the fulfillment of my compendium of needs.

For instance, the extra 150-200 fps that my .220 Swift gives makes it better than my .22-250 in my mind.

I love the .25-35 WCF and .25-06 Remington!

I’m new to the party on the .270 but after filling my cow elk tag with it last year, I like it a lot!

A good friend gave me a Zella-Mehlis 7x57 sporter last summer. Can’t believe I got by so long without it. Its so lightweight and very fun to shoot!

My first rifle was a Savage 99EG 300 Savage. I have a 99E in .308, I like them both!

The .30-06 Springfield is the cartridge I’ve used to take the majority of my big game animals. It’s my favorite cartridge without hesitation.

I have an 1892 Winchester that belonged to my Great-Grandfather; he had it rebarreled to .357 Magnum sometime in the 1950’s, it’s a hoot to shoot. The next doe tag I draw, it’s coming along!

Have used plenty of others with complete satisfaction but, they just aren’t favorites for whatever reason.

.

It wasn't Japan that first had a .277 bore diameter, it was China. It is speculated that Winchester found out about that bore diameter via Mauser. Ball's "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" lists a large number of 6.8mm Mauser rifles purchased by China in the early 20th century

The 6.5crd never interested me, especially with all the extraordinary praise it was getting.

From the perspective of someone who strictly hand loads, its just a smaller version, ballistically, of a magnum length loaded 30-06, with very slightly better ballistics. ( seemed like a lot of comma’s for one sentence?)

It’s very interesting now that srp brass is available. I am really digging this cartridge now. You don’t have to expend lr primers to target shoot. Very easy load development and behaves predictably.