Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Can a person ruin a cartridge for you?

Do you recall any regional variances on the 90%? I live in a city of about 100,000 population where there is NO place to buy loading kit, powder, primers, bullets, nothing. There are lots of hunters here but not so many shooters.

I look at it a bit differently.

I know how the belt got there and why it was put there, oh so many years ago. Originally, that belt did serve for positive headspace.

It is just part of the lore and history that the 375 H&H case was later altered in so many ways and developed into 6.5 Rem, 350 Rem, 338, 358, 7 RM, 264 Win, 257 - 340 Wea, 8mm Rem, the STWs, etc, etc.

While I know full well, the belt serves no useful purpose on several my favorite cartridges, it also does no harm. The belt on the 7 STW or the 264 is akin to a familiar roadside attraction from one's childhood. It is familiar and interesting to look upon.

i got into the 6.5CM pretty early, 2008 or '09. i am a handloader and the only thing that i couldn't buy is 6.5CM brass. so i did the next big thing, i took 22-250 brass and necked it up to 6.5-250 brass. yes it was a little short in the neck, but not enuff to be concerned about (.1 or .2" or .01 or .02" short, i can't remember). i believe it was 2012 when i first got Hornady 6.5CM brass. my rifle was a TC Encore in 15", 16 1/4" and 23" MGM barrels in 6.5CM. i shot at targets and deer. i was using 120gr Hornady Amax, 120gr Nosler BT and 140gr Nosler BT (23" barrel) with IMR4350 and Superformance. i've gotten close to a max load in the 120grs(15 and 16 1/4" barrel going and 2657fps) and a middling load for the 140gr (2634fps for the 23" barrel). i was going for accuracy, not speed. the 120gr Amax was around 1/4 - 3/8" group at 100 yards while the 120 and 140gr BT was around 1/2 - 3/4" group at 100 yards. (5 shots/bench at 100 yards)

several years ago, i sold them and bought a 23" MGM barrel in 500 Linebaugh. i kept the 6.5CM dies and brass.

my youngest son has a custom '16 Spanish Mauser in 6.5x55 Swede (Numrich barrel) with a 120gr Nosler BT and IMR4350 or IMR4895 (i forgot) that goes 2763fps. 3/4 - 1 1/4" group at 100 yards (5shots/bench). once again, i'm going for accuracy not speed.

the 260 Remington was never even mentioned in my mind. i already bought the Remington m7 in 7-08 (bought 2 in 1992 or '93) and that is great cartridge. Remington really screwed the pooch with the 260 Rem. it wasn't advertised or pushed by gun writers or gun shops. in my area, there is only one 260 Rem in the safe. it's my neighbor's Rem m7 and he gave hunting years ago.


i have my own range, but i occasionally get out to the public range. remember the AR craze? "everybody" had to have one or two or three or...!!! i didn't. i've had my fun by enlisting into the Army. the M16A2 was my constant companion. thank you, but no. anyway, the 6.5CM rifles outweigh everything else. their given to kids, girlfriends, wives, husbands, boyfriends...whatever. i wish i had a nickel every time someone shot the 6.5CM. i'd be a millionaire!!!!

I don't recall any regional differences, though there no doubt are, as your location proves.

As stated above, the belted magnums mostly came from the venerable .375 H&H Magnum case. The belt was necessary due to that cartridge's use in double rifles. It was convenient, so ammunition designers used it.

I'm all for creating new cartridges using existing case designs. It makes it easier to find cases for various cartridges during shortages or if a cartridge is out of current favor.

I had a .264 Win Mag in the late '80s and early '90s. I could pretty much never find brass for it, but there was always plenty of 7mm Rem Mag brass available to neck down. I don't think I ever had any .264 WM headstamped brass, now that I think about it.

It's why I don't have a problem using not so popular cartridges that are based on extremely common cases. .25-06 Rem, .260 Rem, .280 Rem, and .358 Norma. Factory ammo and sometimes brass for all of them is far from common, especially during shortages, but cases that I can neck up or down for them are always around.

So I look at the belts on magnums as being a result of practical mid-20th century cartridge design.

Funny thread, but it does highlight the emotional connection we shooters have on our toys (which is how it should be).

The world kinda ruined me on the .270 Winchester way back when, and the 6.5 Creed today. I like to be a little different. Back in the day, hunting with a walnut-stocked single shot vs. a stainless steel bolt with a synthetic or laminated stock was the way to go for me. And if I was forced to carry a stainless bolt, it better not be the same .270 everyone else has. Well, for our first anniversary my wife buys me a lefty, stainless steel .270 with a laminated stock. How I wanted to trade that for something else, or at least drop a .280 barrel on it just to be different.

Over the years I've settled down some and learned to accept that when it comes to actually hitting the field, it's hard to beat an all-whether .270. Once the lead is airborne, it doesn't matter how efficiently it was sent, what platform it was sent by, or who may have sent similar projectiles before you.

Still can't bring myself to get a Creedmoor, though.

As much as I absolutely have no use for the 6.5 Creed, had it been introduced first I might own a few. Were I starting fresh, I might buy a Creed rather than a 260 Rem.

As it is, there are four 260s in the safe. Two Ruger Mk IIs and two Remingtons with 8 inch twist, and 2.950 Accurate mags. I have FL dies and neck bushing dies in 260, 300 pieces of Alpha brass, 200 pieces of Lapua brass, and over 500 pieces of mixed commercial and LC brass loaded.

The 260 may not do anything better than the Creed, but it does it just as well for me. Ammo in the store is irrelevant to ME. The last time I bought a loaded CF round in town was in 1982 when I was out of town for three weeks, and bought a new 25-06 with two boxes of cartridges. to use that weekend.

I am not going to toss the 260s into the schitter, just so I can chase a newer fad. But, if I were to stumble over another 8 inch twist Remington in 260, there's a good chance it would come home.

That's the same boat I'm in. I was a 260 shooter before it came out so there hasn't been much desire to switch over but if starting fresh again I'd go with the 6.5 CM without a doubt. The one 260 I still have left has an aftermarket barrel with a long throated chamber and a Wyatt mag to get it right. The CM has the same functionality out of the box minus a few insignificant feet per second.

I don't think anyone can ruin a cartridge for me. We seem to be hung on discussing the 6.5 CM, but I don't particularly dislike any cartridge. There are a lot of cartridges out there I don't have a use for, but I don't dislike them.

I have used the 260 Remington since it came out. I currently have one left that has attained favorite rifle status in my safe. If it was stolen tonight, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another if I could find one. If I saw a 6.5 CM or 6.5X55 I liked before I found the 260 Rem, I might get either of them too and be completely satisfied.

Anything named Creedmoor. Probably cuz I'm a stubborn old fart that knows he's wrong.

Anything RUM, SAUM, WSM, WSSM.

Anything other than 5.56/.223 for an AR.......especially hate .300 AAC/BO. Unless watching Bubba KBs youtube. Just a matter of time with that round.

Oh, yeah. 30 Super Carry and 5.7x28. Sooner hold my nose and buy a 6.8 Western.

Last, the 3" 28 ga. Thank you Benelli for a screen door on a submarine.

Yep!

Don't hate it, but have no idea what advantage it might have over the 2-3/4" 28.

Around 20 years ago I wrote an article for Handloader magazine, after trying an experiment: Here in Montana we have nine upland birds, aside from Merriam's turkeys. They range in size from doves to sage grouse.

Generally the shooting ranges are shorter earlier in the season, which back then started on the first Saturday or Sunday in September, can't remember which. The early birds were mostly young of the year, and smaller and tighter-holding than later on--when some of 'em tend to get up farther away, especially the open-country birds from Hungarian partridge to sage grouse. They're also bigger, and have thicker skin and more feathers, so tend to be harder to drop.

The experiment was to use the 28-gauge until it didn't work anymore--and I never quit using it. The birds taken included 6-pound sage grouse, taken at ranges out to 47 yards, and wild pheasants at ranges out to 40 yards, which is as far as hunters can consistently hit . The loads used varied, of course, but one of the things I realized is that while the the 28's usually considered a "small bird" gauge, for doves and quail with smaller shots size, it works well on larger birds--because they "catch" more shot pellets than smaller birds.

Yes.
30-06 due to hearing so much about it as a kid.
270, City Cousins all had 270 760s. Their lips were more productive than their
hunting skills. They soured me on pump rifles too.


Was 40 before I got an '06. In a 760!🙃
At a "gotta buy it price".

Darn thing hit my accuracy requirements with very half assed loads chosen to use
odd ball components and Lee Dipper charges. Never loses zero.

Kills as good as a 308.

Head stamps aren't magic. Bigger is better, good bullets required, faster is better as long as the good bullet requirement is met.

I bought CM's after gifting my 6.5 Swede to a nephew who had completed putting himself through college. Come to think of it, I did the same with a 7x57mm for a niece who did the same.

Hmmm... guess I need to go out and buy me a 7mm PRC...

I traded off my Ruger 77, tang safety in 220 Swift for a BLR 308 in 83. I have wanted another 22 centerfire ever since, but I was not going to buy another 220 Swift. Started looking very hard at the 224 TTH (22/6mm). Held off due to 6mm brass availability uncertainty. When the 22 Creedmoor surfaced, I thought now there's a viable cartridge. I just shipped my rifle to the gunsmith this morning for a 22 Creedmoor custom barrel fitting.

I am thankful the Creedmoor craze produced this 22 caliber off-shoot. But, I have zero interest in the parent cartridges.

I had a 224 TTH for a while, along with a .223 WSSM. They have just about exactly the same powder capacity, and loading data is basically interchangeable, though the factory .223 WSMs were hampered by the 1-10 twist. (Dunno what Winchester was thinking, but do know more than one gun writer advised them to go with a faster twist.) Did an article for Handloader on both rifles, which with some changes and updating also became Chapter 18 in in the first Big Book of Gun Gack, "A Pair of Fast .22s."

The .22 Creedmoor is basically a .22-250 Improved, which definitely helps with brass availability. But it doesn't have quite the powder capacity as either the TTH or WSSM.

Is somebody forcing you to use 3" shells ?

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just asking the question because I don't have experience with bullets at 223 WSSM velocities. But if they had gone to a faster twist, with the velocities of the lighter bullets, could they have started having bullet integrity problems at those kinds of RPM's? 4000 fps in a 9t is 320k RPM, that's seriously fast

Yeah, there can be "problems" with lighter bullets at such velocities--especially when shooting prairie dogs in summer temperatures.

But so what? Neither cartridge is really ideal for PD shooting, despite Winchester promoting the WSSM as the ultimate PD round when it appeared. This is partly because they burn out barrels quickly, and partly because I have yet to see a stouter varmint bullet such as Nosler Ballistic Tips come apart even from hot barrels.

Both rounds work even better with heavier bullets, whether for varmints or big game--partly because they hang onto velocity better. But many American hunters are still obsessed by faster muzzle velocities.

Agree on the Ballistic Tip being stout as a varmint bullet. I cannot remember if I tried any in the wssm or not.


Had good luck with 65 grain Gamekings until the chrome turned loose in the bore.

Browning exchanged that rifle for same in 22-250.