I may have the opportunity to hunt in a shotgun or muzzleloader only area next year. I have taken an ark load of deer with buckshot, but have never used a slug gun or muzzleloader. I am not asking which is more lethal as I know either kill deer graveyard dead if you hit your mark. But, are there any advantages in recoil, accuracy, or performance with one or the other? For those that have used both, which do you prefer and why?

Thanks,
CH

Slug gun is many times faster to reload, no large cloud of white smoke from black powder or it's substitutes, easier to clean. JMHO

If, God forbid, I ever found myself in such a predicament, I'd definitely own one of the 20 gauge savage bolt action shotguns.

I try to stay away from Black powder and its' various substitutes so that EvilTwin and FlyBoyFlem will have enough of the Holy Black to run those Sharps rifles with.

Slug gun for me. I just find muzzleloaders too much work.

Muzzleloader is the easy choice.

Shotguns are for shooting shot.

You may as well duck hunt with a Remington 700 in 30-06 while you are at it, if deer hunting with a SHOTgun doesn't feel out of place to you......

Muzzy all the way.

With a little work they are a 200 yard gun. Plus, you only need one shot unless you have multiple tags.

Check out the savage 220 for sale or trade on classifieds. I have one and it is impressive. I have some muzzelloaders too. My 220 is not only accurate it will reload very fast compared to a muzzel.

I've killed a pile of deer with both.A good 20ga slug gun is hard to beat.Absolutely no need to get beat up by a 12ga and with todays sabot slugs a good slug gun can hang with a muzzleloader in the accuracy department.

Probably more a matter of personal choice and preference. Muzzleloader or slug gun if set up properly will get the job done on whitetails without a hitch.

While a muzzleloader can be set up to be a 200 yard gun, so can a slug gun with a fully rifled barrel and sabot slugs. Set up a high quality muzzleloader like a .50 cal Encore with the right 200 grain bullets and 150 grains of propellent, and you can bust 6 inch ballons at 250 yards offhand with a sling wrapped around your arm all day long without batting an eye. Really a matter of ranges you'll encounter and what you prefer to use.

A smoothbore barreled slug gun set up properly is a 125 yard gun in either 12 or 20 gauge persuasion.

I don't feel out of place at all hunting deer with a SHOTgun, been doing it since the mid sixties. The kids and I have killed a passel of them with SHOTguns, I hope that doesn't mean we have to hunt ducks now with a 30-06.

I guess it comes from growing up in the Socialist Republic of NJ, where you can't use a centerfire rifle for deer, shotgun or muzzleloader only, so I grew up playing with slug guns and trying to make them more 'rifle' than SHOTgun.

This one, while a smoothbore 20 gauge, is definitely more comfortable shooting slugs than it is shot, and my preferred weapon for hunting deer where it is SHOTgun only up to ranges of 125 yards. If ranges were to be beyond that, then I'd reach for one of my slug guns with a fully rifled barrel.

Instead of trying to make a slug gun more rifle than SHOTgun(which it will never be), why not just use a rifle? Just sayin'

If I could I would, but the Socialist Republic of NJ says I can't use a centerfire rifle to hunt deer, only a shotgun or muzzleloader, so I have to make do.

I have to admit though, even when I hunt in NY, the catskills, there are certain places where despite being able to use a rifle, I prefer the sluggun. There's a lot to be said for a large, heavy, 3/4 to 1 ounce foster slug traveling sedately at 1600 FPS getting through thick cover and finding it's way to the boiler room of a white tail. And anyone who has tried shooting foster slugs and rifle bullets through mountain laurel to a target on the other side of it knows exactly what I'm talking about.

A muzzleloader IS a rifle. I never said CF. A good muzzy is more accurate and better handling than any shotgun IMO......

Would be interested to know how your "muzzy" is more of a rifle than say a Savage 220. From the Oxford dictionary: "Rifle, a gun, especially one fired from shoulder level, having a long spirally grooved barrel intended to make a bullet spin and thereby have greater accuracy over a long distance". I have many muzzleloaders and many years experience with them. While it would be my choice, I wouldn't recomend it to someone with no experience unless they're interested in learning the sport first.

Opinion:
Hunted the NY Southern tier with slug gun for years when muzzy or slug gun only were allowed. Most of that area has been approved for rifle and is now what I use sometimes. For me, hunting with a slug gun is way ahead of muzzys.

I have an old Ithaca37 (pump) that I would not consider trading for any muzzy I have ever seen. Muzzys always feel awkward, stink, slow, and exceedingly troublesome for cleaning and maintenance. Muzzys just don't have that smooth shotgun swing nor the get on target fast aspect of a shotgun.

An 870 corn sucker, 20gauge, scoped, rifled barreled, shooting sabots and you will be feeling sorry for those stuck with a fog pole thrashing through the woods with their possibilities bag stuffed full of all that junk needed just to make a second shot. Ever been down wind from a smoke pole when it went off?

Go slugger and you won't look back. Tough, clean, accurate, fast, efficient, reliable, will shoot when it's raining, wheelbarrow not needed for second shot supply.

Opinion and experience.

Jim

Agree with both of these guys.

If I was going to do it full time this is what I'd buy. http://www.tarhunt.com/tarhunt/ Like some guys already said in 20 gauge

The Savage 220F in 20 gauge would be a wise choice and can be a killing machine to 200 yards if you experiment with different brands of slugs or reload your own slugs.

Doc

When hunting deer at under 200yds with my Browning 12ga Abolt and Federal Barnes Tipped Expanders I've never wished I had a rifle instead

I remember going over to my buddies shooting range. He had a just outta the shop 6.5 x55 Ruger action custom barreled,triggered you name it spanking new rifle. I had a 220 savage. The 220 although the three shot group may have been a little bigger, due to the meplat or diameter of the projectiles looked a lot tighter and closer together. The 220 is very very accurate. Get a spare magazine a good scope and mounts. Save the smoke poleing when the slugs are illegal. IMO

Same day from this Nov

Meat hunting does for me equal shotgun vs. MZ



SBE with a double thick Shaw barrel

What is the trigger like on the shotgun? How does it balance? What distance will you be shooting? My Encore Muzzle loader with 90grains of BH209, Hornady 250 grain bullets, black sabots, Zeiss 3-9 x 36MC diavari will put 3 under 2 inches at 100 yards, but I don't shoot it a lot. The BH209 cleans up without water and does smoke but not as much. I used 777 for years and it was awful as was pyrodex. BH209 is the way to go. The Encore kills with one shot, and hits where I aim. The balance is forward making it easy to hit with off hand. I have killed only 14 deer with a muzzle loader and none with a slug gun so I am not an expert on slug guns. I used buckshot as a kid. If I had it to do over again I would buy the CVA model break open gun that takes rifle barrels as well over the Encore.

I'd say a slug gun, if for no other reason than faster re-loads.

...and I'm not exactly unfamiliar with fine Muzzle loading arms, either.

I'll tell ya' one thing.

This "Muzzy" designation I see being used here is about the stupidest thing I've seen or heard this year, thus far.

GTC

right up there with "shotty"

I'd venture those using it wouldn't shy away from calling you "dude," either.

GTC

Maybe once.

Shotgun for me, if all we're talking about is practicality. Have taken deer at 200 and my biggest black bear with a shotgun, and my wife has taken deer and moose. I fail to see how a "modern muzzleloader" would do better, and there's be more hassle in at least two ways.

While I fully appreciate why the modern muzzleloader exists, if I'm going to hunt with a muzzleloader it will have a side-lock with a hammer, a wooden stock and open sights, and be filled with black powder and round or Minie ball. I have two of those, plus a couple of scoped and accurate rifled-barrel shotguns. Why would I hunt with a modern muzzleloader?

Looks like a case of over penetration to me.

For stand hunting in areas where 200yd+ shots are possible, my choice is a MLer hands down. I personally use my Savage ML10II when we hunt IA as it's accuracy and ballistics are greater than any shotgun out there. My TC Omega also has great accuracy and trajectory with Barnes 250g TMZs @ 2115fps MV over 110g BH209. A shotgun and modern sabots can't compare to the trajectory nor accuracy of today's modern MLers, projectiles, and propellants. That said, there's always that advantage to the shotgun of multiple shots and the lack of cleaning.

I've shot slug guns with many diff types of newer sabots and personally found each gun to have a definite preference for the type of ammo it preferred. It can get pretty ridiculous in price while searching for the pet load. With the preferred ammo, I've shot some that were capable of groups in the range of 2" at 100 while others struggled to make 3-4" groups. If you plan to run a 12ga, get ready for some brutal recoil with some of today's sabot loads. Like others have mentioned, the 20 is just as capable with today's loads. Not to mention the recoil is far less.

State restricts me to shotgun or ML for deer, I've used both the past 20yrs. Since a Savage with smokeless powder is legal here it has been the only gun I have hunted with. Yes, you only get one shot but I've never needed another since taking it afield. It cleans up just as easily as a slug gun and has a great trigger. It also doesn't cost me $3.00 or more per shot like premium sabot slug ammo.

one thing i didn't read is possible yardage for shot while hunting.Being born and raised in shotgun territory.I will prefer a shotgun over muzzleloader mainly for faster loading.I was raised shooting a 16ga and have taken alot of deer with it but.

Question is this your only shotgun????

if so think you might ever hunt small game,turkey or waterfowl???

Now muzzleloaders are just flat fun and i believe and more gratifying when hunting meat

So it all comes down to preference if you don't already do blackpowder you might want to stay shotgun if you want a experience you might get into blackpowder.If thinking bp More then likely you know someone that is into ask them if you can shoot with them i've never seen a friend turn down some range time

It's interesting to read through the comments by people who live in parts of the country where deer are hunted with shotguns. Here in the West, it's a lot different, and we don't get exposed to those viewpoints.

Here, the main reason for choosing the muzzleloader hunt is that the whole style of the hunt is more relaxed and pleasant, and there aren't so many people out in the woods.

It's all relaxing and fun when hunting,I hunt bow,shotgun,rifle and pistol
I'd say there are almost as may people hunting during MZer season around here now as general gun

Only benefit from my slug gun is follow up shots after I downed this one 3 more doe and 2 large buck came out and passed me this Dec. I'd already filled both buck tags or I'd of been cussin

After almost 4 years of a few of us trying thru the Wisconsin Conservation Congress our whole state is now rifle legal. You other guys might be well advised to work to get this changed in your states as well. My property was in this shotgun only area. We have since sold our three NEF 20 ga.Tracker II slug guns and am happy to see them go. They were accurate, and easy to hunt with and carry, but they were a shotgun.

The recoil from a slug gun makes it hard train new and young shooters and with the testing done at the Picatinny arsenal for the state of Pennsylvania, found the shotgun no safer as well.
The ammunition is also cost prohibitive for young shooters to practice. I just will not go deer hunting anywhere anymore that my only choice of arms is a shotgun. Good luck to you hunters stuck in a shotgun area. I do use a Sidekick muzzleloader at times so as to extend my season, but my first choice is rifle.

I'm another Savage model 220 20ga testimonial. With my Nikon Slug Hunter BDC scope, one hole at 50 and 1" at 100 yards. Moved over to 200 yards and popped a 3" group. Using the 2 3/4 Remington Accu-Tips its as deadly as a center fire. I highly recommend them to anybody who will listen and not run away.

The problem is, none of you guys is shooting the best muzzleloader ever made.

My Savage Muzzleloader will outshoot any other muzzleloader or shotgun carried in the woods for hunting. It cost me about $.70 per shot and gives me 1.5" groups at 200yds. 45grs of IMR 4227 easily gets a 250gr XTP to 2100+fps and 2300fps is a cakewalk. The 300gr Barnes can readily hit 2100-2200fps for things bigger than deer if shots pushing 300yds may be needed.

It always goes bang when the trigger is squeezed, doesn't blind you with smoke or make you taste it, and cleans as easily as any centerfire rifle.

I would NEVER hunt with a shotgun if my muzzleloader was available, and allowed.

While I have a savage 220, I usually use my older Ithaca 37, 20 ga, as most of my shots are only 40-75 yds. Standing deer have been DRT, but on moving deer a followup may be needed. So, the shotgun may be the choice, if a followup shot is needed. Hoping they pass the bill allowing straight wall handgun cartridges in rifles in my area.

Because the "modern muzzleloader" of which you speak isn't a Savage. Encores, Apex, and any other "modern Muzzleloader" are old technology. If they can't burn SMOKELESS powder, they really are not modern.

Good to see you post, GreenHornet!

Messy, smelly, awkward, hard to reload.....? I would not use any of those terms to describe my ML.

Fast handling, light, accurate, are more like it. It feels like a rifle, not a shotgun. Pointing a shotgun at something 100-200 yds away, well, now that would seem awkward to me. To each their own, I guess.

Shotguns are for shooting shot......

Great information from this thread. Thanks to all who posted! I appreciate everyone who provided first hand information and staying on topic. It is really helpful to hear from the crowd who live in shotgun-muzzleloader only areas.

I grew up in South Dakota where rifles are employed for things with four feet (plus turkeys) and rifles are for things with wings (including turkeys). Then I moved to Iowa - shotgun or muzzleloader or straight-walled pistol. I killed lots of whitetails with an Encore pistol in .454 Casull and .357 Maximum. Then I moved to SW Minnesota - same rules, except pistols can be chambered in anything for deer so long as the barrel length exceeds 4" and the projectile diameter is at least .220". I have since hunted deer with my Encore pistol chambered in .260 Rem with 17" barrel, both in MN and SD. Obviously the .260 Rem is a hell of a choice, especially when I can ring up the 8" steel disks at 300 yds with a decent rest. Moral of the story is this - does the area you intend to hunt permit pistol hunting? There are a few times I can think of that I would have rather had a shotgun than my Encore, but not many, and there are several deer that would have walked had I been using a shotgun, but instead they were tagged at 200+ yds with my pistol.

There are specific time periods here for both, so I get to use both.

we use ML's during our 7 day ML season and Rifles during Rifle season, different parts of the country different strokes, I could not justify a slug shotgun around here not even if they said you could hunt with one during the 7 day ML season. The follow up shot thing does not compute, who needs two shots?

Good point about more than one shot!

But the only time I got in a multiple-shot situation with EITHER a muzzleloader or slug gun was in Iowa, when I had to hunt down a buck somebody else had wounded with a .44 Magnum revolver. I had a 20-gauge T/C Contender carbine 20-gauge that shot Winchester sabots with 260-grain Nosler Partitions really well. The tracking was easy--too easy, since there was snow on the ground, and the buck was really cautious. Found him across a draw at a little over 200 yards, and in a stout cross-wind managed to break the hip on the same side as the broken front leg. That made it easier, but the buck still got around pretty well, and it took two more shots (the first a miss as he hobbled through the oak timber) before he went down for good.

I don't mind single-shots, whether muzzleloaders or cartridge, when doing my own hunting. Have killed Cape buffalo with one. But would have appreciated a pump-gun on that deal!

When I decided to just use the "modern ML" a number of years ago it was because I'd gotten bored with the slug gun. I killed plenty of deer with it, even some with a second shot. Funny though, since switching over I haven't needed a follow up shot due to a miss or bad shot. Lucky? Probably..........

Close to 30 deer with inlines, of that more than half with a NULA smokeless. The rest were with a Knight Disc and a T/C Encore. Killed a few with a flintlock, good old REAL black powder & patched round balls too.

This past year they finally legalized CF rifles in the county I hunt the most so my NULA won't get much face time anymore. Oh, I'll use it in PA for their early season if I/when go back and of course our late ML season here in NYS.

If I had too make a one or nothing choice, it'd be easy.........

I love my in-line but still pull out the Hawkins too

For me, it's traditional muzzleloader all the way. However, you really have to 'want' to use them because they are a different breed. Modern muzzeloaders are just the least inconvenient way to hunt the early season for folks who really have no desire to use a primitive weapon. I despise them. Slug guns simply don't interest me.



BS. If it uses substitute powders or pellets, shotgun primers, saboted jacketed bullets, optical sights and capable of 250yd shots, it's every bit a modern rifle.

Here we go so much for staying on topic

[/quote]BS. If it uses substitute powders or pellets, shotgun primers, saboted jacketed bullets, optical sights and capable of 250yd shots, it's every bit a modern rifle. [/quote]

pellets, substitute powders, shotgun primers, sabots,optical sights, etc have been around for over 20yrs.

that's not modern, that's old tech. Do you think a 20+yr old car is "new" or "modern"? Hawkens, and other side hammer guns are ancient tech.

I'll go along with the "more pleasant" part, and less people in the woods, but we get to hunt bugling bulls in CO during the rut, so I can't go along with "more relaxing."

I've hunted New York's southern tier for several decades. Started out with a shotgun that had the barrel rifled in 1980. Later, I switched to an inline. pros and cons both ways. Inlines were way more accurate, (80's & 90's) but only one shot. I wounded a buck once with the inline that I could have finished easily with a quick second shot from a shotgun. I took a large buck in '03 with an inline where I shot through a very small window with an inline. When NY made centerfire rifles legal, that's all I use now.
In PA, we have an early muzzleloader season that allows inlines, and a late muzzleloader season that is flintlock only with open sights.

I hate all these BS boutique seasons. There ought to be only 1 season - deer season. Use what you like.

There are so many reasons Man invented modern rifles.

there's a winner. Make all states the same. How would you do that?

It might be a bummer though, for states with big game other than deer......

And there are so many reasons men choose to hunt with primitive weapons. Spreads out hunting pressure, for one.

My father sayd the same thing. When Bow opens up October 1st in NY, it should be deer season, not bow season.

We have a long bow season in GA, a 7 day primitive weapons season, and then in October some time rifle until the end of the year in the Northern zone. In the southern zone season runs a week or so longer and you can hunt over bait. Figure the bait thing out for half the state while your contemplating things. You can go 1 foot north and be arrested for exactly what is legal 1 foot south and the reasoning is a patent fabrication and insult to intelligence.

Rather than wasting your time typing such a dumb response, why don't you turn on that dim bulb and try to figure out what is being said? Do I really have to write a book for you?

Only complaint I have about the internet is there are so many small minded pedants.

Predictable response. When you say something stupid, question the other guy's intelligence.

Let me break it down for you. There is no "one size fits all" approach that works everywhere. Some states are overloaded with deer and need every management tool available, including "boutique seasons." Lots of the areas with over-populated deer aren't suitable for hunting with centerfire rifles, or even shotguns. Some states like CO want to allow hunters to hunt elk during the rut, but don't want to allow centerfires (generally) since the animals are vulnerable and too many bulls would be killed. Also, with all the non-residents who want to hunt here, if we only had one season it would be so crowded that very few would enjoy the experience.

other than that, GFY.

I agree with Denton. I also find it interesting hearing how people in different parts of the country hunt, and with what weapons, terrain, distances etc. It is a very interesting thread in that sense. Being from the Northeast, and only having ever hunted in the Northeast, mostly in extremely thick cover has made a sluggun my preferred weapon in most cases, even where I can hunt with a rifle.

While I do hunt with rifles in New Yorkistan, and reload rifle and try to reload precisionwise, it's kinda a moot point seeing how most deer I've taken with a rifle I could have easily shot and killed with my bow & arrow.

I used to hunt a balsam swamp up off Yeagerville Road just below Peekamoose mountain in New Yorkistan, it was so thick with balsam and laurel you would have been lucky to get a shot at 40 yards. Fast pointing sluggun with slow moving slugs just seems a better option in places like that.

While there is some farmland in the areas I hunted in New Yorkistan, when I hear of wide open shots across fields, first thing I think of is that those kind of deer were removed from the gene pool back in the 60's-70's in the areas I hunt.

But it's all good and all interesting, and I do like all the different weapons, and sometimes just believe in using the right tool to get the job done.

But there is something about having a wary buck inside of 20 yards of you and have to draw the bow back and get the shot off with him unaware that really floats my boat.

There is nothing a slug gun does that a rifle doesn't do as good or better.

LOL, in my response above I skipped right over that part of the equation, and it's probably the most important. I was sticking to the objective, logical reasons for primitive weapons seasons.

But when you get right down to it, objective logical reasons have little to do with why many people hunt.

HOLY crap that a nice rig there! Deerslayer?

Thank you.

Actually that gun started out life as a Winchester 1300 Ranger, and was a beater when I got it. Took it apart, and reblued whatever I had to. I got the stock on Fleabay, unfinished, and it's actually for a Winchester model 275(from the mid 60's) 22 magnum. Finished it and fit the recoil pad to it. Forend is an unfinished piece for a model 12 that was cracked at the end(I had to cut that part off to fit it anyways). Found the forend unfinished and cracked at a gunshop in Orange County, New Yorkistan. Fit it and finished, the wood isn't a bad match for 2 altogether different pieces of walnut.

Reciever is drilled & tapped(from the factory) and it has a Bushnell Banner 1.5X4.5 variable on it. It's a 20 gauge with a smoothbore slug barrel.

Shoots pretty damn good for a gun with crappy reputation, sporting a cheap scope & shooting chitty foster slugs, LMAO

beg to differ with you a slug leaves alot more blood at point of shot compared to rifle.I've shot plenty of deer with both rifle and shotgun and never once had the same amount of blood from rifle.

So you make a bigger hole in the lungs/heart with a slug than with a 45-50 caliber expanded 30 caliber bullet still going 2500 FPS... seems a bit odd to me.

Or start with a .45 and expand from there.

You can tell a 1300 instantly by the little "point" where buttstock meets receiver. I believe them to be one of the most underrated shotguns ever. Stroke is short, cycling is fast. I have owned an all camo since the 1st year they made them. I'm thinking like 20-25 years ago? It has rifle sights on it, no vent rib. Shoert barrel, 22" I think. They called it the deer/turkey combo or something. I only use it for turkey though. Would be great for called in coyotes also...........

A lot more blood? I'd say a .45 300gr or so projectile makes a PLENTY big hole/blood trail. A slug may make a bigger hole, but it makes a bigger mess too. Unnecessarily IMO.

Are you telling me a .45 300gr bullet doesn't leave enough blood for you? Because I don't understand what your point is. Just sayin'. I have shot a bunch of deer with ML. 1 shot, 1 kill. You never had to be Geronimo to find one either..................

Well so much for this...

I'm thinking we ARE still on topic though. No?

I'd agree with this, and you could extend it to muzzleloaders and archery.

Which is exactly the point of primitive weapons seasons. Lots of guys choose to go that route for the challenge. When you get within rifle range a rifle hunt is over, whereas a bowhunt or muzzleloader hunt is just beginning.

IME a muzzleloader hunt is same way. I'm automatic with it, just like a centerfire rifle(which I kill deer/critters with every year also). I simply do not feel handicapped in any way with my in-line ML.

For me, I have to use a bow or crossbow, or a handgun to really feel "challenged".

When I do hunt a "shotgun zone", I NEVER use a shotgun. ML or hand-cannon for me........

No doubt that bowhunting is, relatively speaking, much more of a challenge.

I can't say I don't feel handicapped with a muzzleloader compared to an accurate centerfire rifle with a good scope on it though. I guess it depends on the state regs where you hunt, no scopes, sabots, or smokeless powder are allowed here during the ML seasons. Even with a scope, there's no way I could use a muzzleloader to make the same shots I can with my centerfires.

All I'll say is take a look at the LHR REDEMPTION. I will personally vouch for anything and everything they claim. Go to their site and or look them up on utube

M.L.

I looked at their website. But I'm not sure of your point, are you saying that with this .50 caliber muzzleloader, you can duplicate the performance of a good centerfire?

back on topic! Get a "slug gun" if you feel under-gunned with one shot, get a CVA Apex "muzzle loader" if you want better accuracy, want to be able to convert to center fire for the about the same money...

I hunt with both as stated and as far as accuracy and range it's 6 in one half dozen the other....Follow up shots are the 1 bonus factor with the slug gun...it all depends on what you are looking for and comfortable with. I hunted many opening days of slug gun season with my .50 cal Hawkins,still dig that set trigger

is there a pump slug gun that will shoot 3 or so into sub 2 inches at 100 yards? Just curious.

Wow Horandy saboted slugs for a 20 guage are $10 for 5 or $40 for 20....a Hornady 50 cal MZ bullet is .75 cents but I don't know how many 100 grain loads are in 16 ounces of powder which costs $30.00 or so.

You don't need a pump here's a family that met my Marlin 512 bolt action was a fun 7 seconds and then 4 hours of misery getting them off the mountain...couldn't do that with a muzzleloader

I like them both and use whichever one I feel is most appropriate for the occasion. Obviously the laws must be followed. In Iowa I have been known to carry both up into my stand. My Iowa muzzleloader is a REMPAC 45 smokeless powder and I use 70 grain of H4198 and I will use the same muzzleloader for the PA. inline season. I use a flintlock during PA primitive weapon season. Shotgun with buckshot here in VA. Beach. The more guns the merrier.

Is there one? Sure. They'd be pretty rare though.

But this is the internet and i am sure there are plenty guys who'll speak of or show the one best "2 shots touching and I pulled the 3rd" group of all time at 75 yards and post it as an "all day long" 100 yard group.

The savage 210/220 and H&R single shots are a different story though. Very consistant.

Unless considering the above named shotguns or a semi custom (tarhunt), on the averages, a typical ML will be more consistently accurate than a typical shotgun.

ALso consider ammo. Shotguns can be picky in the slugs they prefer. Some shotgun slug ammo is ridiculously priced. YOu could spend a few hundred bucks testing brands and practicing at long range. With a ML you can load develop at the bench and save money via economy of scale. Something to consider.

Obviously either way , SG or ML will work.

That savage 220 is really at a whole other level than an 870, rifled barrel, & scope. If you are leaning SG, I'd strongly consider it.

My smoothbore 870 will do 3 into <3" @ 100, but only with Remington Sluggers (Foster type) and German-made Brenneke MPs. Won't do it with Kent's or any other brand of Foster's.

However, I'm tired of the recoil & short range and shoot an inline whenever I'm limited to the crap guns.

I am not sure anyone has said this explicitly yet, but maybe you want to hunt them both?

Every year I hunt both lower MI and our farm in west-central IL - many days I actually carry both guns afield. I will sling the ML when moving, walking in or out, still hunting or on a drive and in the same day I could sling/drop the slug gun and sit a ridge or field edge with the ML out on pack or bi-pod.
The 12ga is set up with a 2-7x33 hvy duplex and the ML with either a 2.5-8 or 3.5-10x with CDS tested out to 400yards. (both with smokeless powder (IL) and BH209 (MI)

In areas east of the Mississippi and other states like it, I have not felt handicapped toting both guns. But, I am not hiking a ton of vertical either.
Just a thought if you have the time and funds to buy and wring out both.

If the prescribed event warranted the use of a Savage firearm I would just bow out. God forbid being the operative phrase.

Me two, I would and do hunt during an extra muzzleloader season to extend my hunting, but just won't participate in anymore "shotgun" only type of hunts. Been there done that way too long in my life. I'd find a different place to hunt unless it was my home area.

it leaves enough blood but the statement was rifle.Personally i prefer rifle and now that my area opened up rifle it is what i use.I either carry a 300 savage or a 444 marlin. now in board terms like the statement a rifle does everything a shotgun does equal or better. do you say the blood from a 243 is equal to a 20 or 12 ga.I say no i've had deer run 80 yards without blood trail but they stopped 82 yards from shot.if you want to compare one rifle why not pic the 600 nitro express.I would say the average rifle being used hunting is not the 45 300gr bullet.

By "rifle" I believe a muzzle loading rifle was what was meant. Now I at least better understand where you were coming from. And hopefully, you I......

yes i wasn't thinking muzzleloader.In the end we are on same page i just didn't realize it.

Not me. I wasn't thinking MLing rifle. They are crap too compared to a modern rifle. Give me a 30/06. Shotguns are a piss poor substitute for an '06.

John, I know you are being facetious, but we suffer under some tremendously stupid laws. Laws that need to be changed. I've had enough of this 19th century BS and all the GD Fudds in these Eastern states. It's time to move on to at least 1903.

I didn't realize that. Will be sure to use a .30-06 next time I hunt in the local shotgun/muzzleloader area.

I guess if you're not capable of hitting a home run steroids get you over the fence

I've "hit a homer" every year for over 25 years in spite of the handicap.

That doesn't change the fact that a rifle is more accurate, more deadly, has better range, uses cheaper ammo, and kicks less than the BS guns.

I'll give you the more range,less recoil( dependent on caliber you are shooting)and cheaper ammo....I'll disagree on the accuracy and more deadly

Heck, when hunting back east in those very areas (semi-populated flatlands), I've had rifled slugs go whistling past me. BarryC is right, a 180 grain partition out of an '06 would be much better in those circumstances.

There's a whole lotta mountains & hills where I stand.

No reason they couldn't make the rules by zone. They already do that with dates, bag limits, etc., & etc.

In VA, that's exactly what they do. On the coastal plain, shotguns. In the Piedmont and mountains, rifles.

When I can run a 195 gr Barnes bullet down range at 2650 fps + and very good accuracy, I will opt for the muzzleloader. Smokeless muzzleloading is a wonderful thing!

they do I just happened to hunt the majority in slug gun only county

SHOTGUN

that's your 12 gauge with a shaw barrel? Curious how it shoots regards accuracy?

Those deer say it's accurate!

Yep - less tan 2" at 100 YDS when I'm half paying attention.

Depends on how you look at "performance".
My point being a ML shoots a big fat hunk of whatever you put in it. And I will put the accuracy of any muzzleloader I own up against any slug gun. It's not that I don't like SGs, but you asked for opinions and advice and I gave you my honest opinion and steered you in the direction of a quality product. In the end, either that place the grains where you want it will kill deer or whatever

My ML may not be much to look at to some, but I'd have to reckon it's kill record would be. I love the damm thing and can't seem to let it go. Have had it like 27 yrs. now. Many times I have thought of "upgrading" to a more expensive model. Problem is, I can't figure out anything I don't like about this one. It is very light, fast handling, and accurate. It has killed some great bucks too. I have another (more expensive ) ML sitting here that I never even use.........






The old Weaver Classic (1st year they changed logo to green) is pretty beat up now. Reticle does not focus as good as it ued to, tube is bent, and some finish is missing. Nelieve me when I say, I got my $125 out of it.

I have a NIB VX2 and Conquest here. One of them is going on the old muzzleloader...........

Well, I'm not the OP, so I wasn't asking for opinions, just adding a few stray comments here and there.

And I'd agree with you on the accuracy of muzzleloaders vs slug guns.

I was just cusious about your comment on the LHR because it looked like you were responding to my post and comparing it to centerfires. To me, centerfires vs muzzleloaders is apples and oranges.

Nice. What did you use for the breech cover? Leather strap? Does it do a fair job of protecting the scope?

I have a few similar design open breech face ML & I dont like the beating my scopes take if I shoot early and continue hunting the rest of the day... or on long range sessions making smoke.

Not braggin' but I've shot 3 does out of a string of 8 does with that SBE of mine.

do that with a MZ...

BTW - I have a GPR I use when the freezer's already near fill.

Now for some reason I am researching barrels for my M1 super 90. One guy was asking $800 for a slug barrel...too much but I am warming to the idea of a semi auto slug gun.

I am really warming up to the idea of the Savage 220 or a H&R. The fact that I can get either for less than $500 makes it even better. I already have a Leupold VX-II 2-7x33 to go on top.

The cover was store bought. Not sure who made it. T/C or somebody. It does keep powder off of scope pretty well, and seals breach from weather also. .....

I like my browning A5 light 12 with a hastings fully rifled barell open sights for thick cover [scrub oak] hunting of muleys and elk fast handling, 5 shots, low recoil, never jams

I hear you. And that could definitely be considered an "advantage" to some. If that is how you hunt. For me, it is a non-issue. Most all of time I already have meat in freezer by the time I bust out my ML. And even when not, I still generally only tend to ever want to shoot 1 deer at a time.

Most of the time........

If you're doing a lot of drives go with a good rifled slug gun, if not get a Savage 10ML and shoot smokeless powder, it's basically a single shot 45/70. It's ugly as sin but they shoot!

In Wisconsin we had shotgun/MZ only areas up until last year but we could also use handguns so I built a battery of an Ithica M87 Deerslayer II, Savage 10ML and a Remington XP100R in 308. I found the Ithica stayed in the safe.

yea if I did it would be semi auto.

I can buy a Mossberg 930 with 24 inch rifled slug barrel for less money than a barrel for my Benelli. Maybe its time to slum a bit, can't be that much difference in them...

I'd not compare a Benelli with a Mossberg
That said I'd not pay $800 for a barrel

Search around $800 for a barrel is crazy talk...you missed this one
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/5986967/Benelli_M1_Super_90_24_12_ga_r

I got lucky with mine, I got it from CDDN investments when berreta bought benelli all the old slug barrels made by ER Shaw were put up on clearance.

So my slug barrel cost me $280 bucks.

You can find them for ~600 now.

A doe and two coyotes from a tree stand with a T/C Encore 50cal in 90 minutes....................

Nice Larry
I have shot 2 deer with my Omega with in the time it took to squeeze the trigger and then reload and squeeze again, both buck
Shot the 1st and 2nd ran 40 yds and stopped right on the edge of some golden rod....It was the last day of the season actually last 5 minutes of the season and I still had both buck tags
1st one I shot was a good one

Nice!

BTW watch gun broker for slug barrels 400-600 for benelli's, sometimes even less.

- guys I hunt a fairly heavily populated doe area, so there are strings of 3-8 does in a row, I'm taking about shooting them seconds apart from each other.

Yes it's a niche - and a MZ works two because two-three string pass by each morning.

I live in Iowa so I have to hunt with a muzzleloader, shotgun, or handgun in our deer seasons and some seasons are weapons specific. I have gone the muzzleloader route and frankly I hate the cleaning and juggling all the components. I even bought an aftermarket smokeless barrel in which I use H4198 so I at least eliminated the constant "chimney sweep" thing. And it would perform well even to 250 yds with the right load. But there is still the juggling all the powder, bullets, and primer thing. This year I just used my RRH in 45 Colt and I enjoyed a hands-free, a full, jiggling fanny pack-free hunt.

I think it's just a matter of style really. I like JBs idea of a muzzleloader--more traditional. If given a choice between the two I'd go the Savage rifled shotgun all the way (it is a rifle by the way).

The reason I haven't gone this route so far is I hunt IA's late season during which it's muzzleloader or handgun all the way--no shotgun. I have no idea why but that's the way it is.

Tell me if this makes any sense...no rifle but I can use this

Savage Striker 7mm-08

I will keep my eye open for one in the $400 range to fit the M1 super 90. Would prefer to do so rather than buy a Moosberg, will see what comes up.

I agree. A Savage never makes sense........unless it is a 99....

That's the other thing. I've very strongly considered the T/C contender handgun but in IA we are limited to straight-walled cartridges. Even so, I've considered the 45-70 very much one year but just didn't pull the trigger on that one. Yes, I admit pun intended.

Watch CDDN investments site as well.

In Michigan u have to use Black powder or a Black powder substitute Page 20 in the rules. no smokeless powder

A savage bolt action shot gun is a shot gun because it rifled Its still a shotgun So a remington 870 pump is a rifle shotgun .Ask yourself this what kind of a rifle load are u putting in

Savage Smokeless muzzleloaders work just fine with BP or BP subs.

Bullschidt-there used to be just shotguns that you could also run slugs through, but now there are slug guns with impressive capabilities-200 yard shots are not out of the question today.

There are many places where rifles are not legal, but shotguns are. Some folks just prefer to hunt with a shotgun too. Some of the places we hunt in Northern Minnesota, a slug gun is a good choice. There's places the deer run up there where you couldn't get a greased gerbil through those trees.

GG---Rifles as in ML rifles.

Nothing about your so called "slug guns" impresses me. Nor close. Not handling characteristics, nor accuracy.

I hunt cedar swamps as thick as anything Minnesota has to offer. One shot is all I've ever needed.

There is a reason why a shotgun is shaped/ constructed like it is. There is also a reason why a rifle is so constructed. You do the math.

Shotguns are for shooting shot.......

I beg to differ sure seems like mines shaped and constructed like a rifle...

An A-bort ain't a rifle..........

Nice looking gun. Like the open sights also. Been looking for a new slug gun. How do you think the Browning compares to the Savage?

If Browning offered them in a 20 gauge I would already have one.

I'm sure I'm repeating some posts, but not going to wade through over a hundred of them not to be redundant. Savage is the answer to this question.

I'd get a Savage bolt action 20 gauge. Try Remington Accutips in it first. If it shoots under 2" (mine shoots an inch or less) call it good and go hunting. Winchester Elites shoot good too. Not as good in my gun by 2X but still better than any other slug gun I've had.

They don't cycle well, but they are amazingly accurate. To cycle them you need to more or less rip the bolt out of the gun while rolling it to the side. I don't have that down yet.

If you decide against the Savage 220, get a Savage ML. More pricey, but they hold their value well and are nearly as accurate as the slug gun. Possibly more accurate (by a meaningless amount) if you have the time, components, and patience to find the right load combo. Oh! Use smokeless powder. I recommend N105 or N110 depending on bullet weight.

The quality is far superior to that of a Savage, price is higher also
Mine is an original model when Browning reintroduced them they missed the boat by not making them in 20 ga

Thanks for the reply. As a Browning owner I understand about the pricing, don't mind it if it shows in the quality.

true, but why would you use that crap? ruins guns, cost an arm and a leg, lousy accuracy.

I would NEVER use anything but smokeless powder in my Savage Muzzleloader.

the very first load tried in my savage muzzleloader gave me 1.5" groups at 200yds when started at 2100+FPS. Like to see a shotgun equal that.

My shotgun will shoot a 5 shot 3" group at 200 yds . I'll take the extra 1 1/2" and the 7 minutes less time it takes to do it

If you're talking about smooth bore shotguns, I agree with you. I have a scoped H&R Ultra slug Hunter with a fully rifled heavy bull barrel. It really is a 12 ga sabot rifle more than it is a shotgun,
Muzzleloader more accurate than a dedicated slug gun????? that's just crazy talk. A slug gun properly set up will shoot small enough group to easily take deer at 200 yards. If your ML
shoots tighter than that it doesnt matter anyway, a 2 inch group has absolutely no benefit over a 3 inch group at 200 yards
Some areas will allow slug shooting but off limits to rifles.

Crazy talk? No, not really. Why would say that? What possibly would make a slug gun more inherently accurate in your mind than a simple in-line ML?

Look a few pages back, you'll see the last 3 shots I took with my ML at something that didn't have a heart beat. 3/4" at 150 yds. Let me guess, your H&R will do that well or better, right?

Never Needed more than one shot at any range.

It also only cost me about $.50 per shot and I get about 155 shots per pound of powder. How many shots can you get for a $50 bill? $2-$3/shot for a modern shotgun sabot round doesn't give you many.

My gun also recoils like a 308.

anyway you look at it, the Savage muzzleloader is cheap to shoot, as accurate as a modern rifle, and deadly at any sane range.

Close enough for me

What this all boils down to is use what you are comfortable with,heck I use every thing(slug gun,in line,traditional and pistol),I'll hunt with my shot gun, muzzleloaders or pistol durning the regular shotgun/rifle season

They all work depending on how you hunt and what you wanna do

Agreed.

Everyone has their likes /dislikes for different reasons. I would NEVER use a slug gun, but that is just me. 5 Shots in 3" @ 200yds is more than good, admittedly. Just not my cup of mud........

slumlord is trying to talk me into a savage 220 for hunting on ft Campbell

I like my cva Kodiak promag in .45

I also like his savage smokeless


fords and chevys
blondes and brunettes
Winchesters and remingtons

it is all what works out best for you as the shooter



I like fords,brunettes and winchesters

I think its all good. Just another reason to buy a new gun. One thing I really like about muzzleloaders though is there is not any FFL crap and still get a nice powerful weapon.

I've used both a shotgun and muzzle loader in Iowa. For me, the only advantage of a muzzle loader was small increase in range.

But 99% of the time, a quality shotgun, with quality slugs worked well. With the advantage of having multiple shots available over the muzzle loader.

Where I hunt in Iowa (Jackson County) almost all shots were less than 100 yards.

How about receiver mounted rifle scopes when the barrel is separate? I am wondering how accurate a set up like this can be on a slug gun? I guess the cantilever barrel mounts are better, but those things look flimsy as well.

i've shot shotguns with mounting cantilever and receiver no problem never had them get move.I've tried the saddlemount so you don't drill the gun.I personally don't care for them i like a more solid mount.

So scope on the receiver, barrel separate shoots as good as cantilevered scope mount.

That hasnt been my experience, nor my observation of a few friends and family members.

Never cared for cantilever mounting, don't care for removable barrels on a dedicated slug gun either

I will use both as required. Given a choice, I will take my Ithaca Deerslayer.

For serious deer hunting the rifled barrel, a scout scope and Winchester or Hornady Sabots is usable to 200 yards.

For does in rangeland with some draws a smoothbore Deerslayer barrel with a 2.5X Scout scope works for deer to 100 yards and pheasant inside 30 yards. 12 or 20 gauge works just fine.
Ditto if I have filled my tag and am not allowed to hunt with a CF rifle larger than .224 cal.

This isn't the best state for Muzzle loaders. The rain makes it tough.

here you go better hurry!
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../WTS_Benelli_M1_or_M2_barrel#Post8569140

Scout scope on the barrel makes sense or maybe better an aim point

Same here.

George turned out to be a cylinder bore!

Sorry I'm keeping my eye opened for ya

Try here Jimmy

http://www.gunsamerica.com/954149684/Benelli_M1_Deer_Barrel.htm?