on deer sized game,,,how far have you had success?

So many variables- Is the deer standing in good light, does the shooter have good eyesight, does the scope have a lot of parallax...
A good shot with iron sights on a day with good light can keep all his shots in a six inch circle at six hundred yards- Theoretically, a six power scope should double or triple that range, but it doesn't because so many other variables come into play.
I don't think it's too far off to say that a six power scope will take almost all people past the capabilities of both them and their rifles. On deer especially, once you get past 400 yards or so, there is such a likelihood of that deer taking a step between the time you send the bullet and the time it gets there that it makes those shots pretty iffy.
I say that knowing there is a handful of hunters here with the experience and discipline and animal knowledge to wait until everything is perfect before they drop the hammer.
This is a pretty vague reply, but the question doesn't lend itself to a precise answer.

I've killed several deer and antelope at 250-350 yds. with a 4x and 6x scopes, and never felt the need for much more power on a hunting rifle.

Clarence

I have always liked 4x and 6x scopes for their ruggedness and simplicity, but my eyes aren't what they used to be so I have gone to variable scopes now-Hated to do it, but that's life

I am not much or a long range shooter, I practice to 500, mostly because it makes 2-300 yds seem easier.

My longest shot on an deer was ~420 with a FX3 6x42. 6 was plenty of X for that.

As a younger fellow I carried a M21 in the army for about 18 months. It has a the ART-2 scope where ranging and trajectory compensation was linked to power and it was basically 100yds per X and I can't ever remembering a time when I needed more magnification. It was all about ranging (before laser rangefinders) and the wind.

I haveca 2-8�32 zeiss with turrets mounted on a VERY accurate 260ai. I plowed through an elks heart at 420 one minute into legal light. I have hit beer cans at 600 to 750 yards with it.you can do a lot with a clear low power scope.

My brother used a fixed 10 power in Iraq and Afghanistan during his tours over there. You can do a lot with fixed power scopes. The conditions , your capability , and your rifles capability set the limits.

i shoot in competition with guys shooting iron sights, out to 1000 yards. i prefer at least a 6.5-20 to take advantage or the rifle/calibers abilities

Coyote at 365. Leupold 6x

Numerous coyotes over 400 w/6x36 Leupold on my Swift.-Muddy

I have shot doe antelope at just shy of 600 in Wyoming with a fixed 6X, no problem.

Some hands advice here

I've killed antelope over 400 with a straight 4 power with a standard crosshair. No dials, no dots, no range finder.

I've shot deer at over 400, groundhogs at over 400, and rung 18" steel with ease and a 6x.

Every scope I own is a 6X......AND an 18X or 20X

Why anyone would want to handicap themselves with 6X on a rifle capable of killing/making impacts at ranges where a 6 power scope sucks hind tit is amazing to me.

Longest shot on a buck with a fixed 6X was 330 yards. Woodchucks to about 400 and yotes about the same. I shoot 600 with a fixed 6X on the range.

I've killed more stuff further away with a fixed 4X;longest mule deer about 500 and ditto on elk.An elk is the size of a house and shoo in with a 6x at 500 yards.

But like Royce, I like more power these days in open country.

i was just curious, in all my years of hunting (started 30 years ago, been doing it yearly for last 12 or so) ive owned scopes that have gone up to 12x and the only time I have used anything higher than 6x is at the range...i guess from a field rest, I haven't felt comfortable (or needed)with zooming in to a higher power. That and 90+ percent of my hunting in georgia is inside 150 yards (probably most inside of 100 actually) in planted pines, or a hardwood bottom, unless Im hunting powerline or beanfield type area.....the thought of sitting in my climber and cranking the scope up to 20x on a deer bewilders me

my geography has me looking for pieces of a deer between all the timber vs looking for a deer in a wide open space

Ruger 1B 270, 6x - double on crows (1 shot) ~ 300+ yds
That count?

Deer - K1A Ruger 6.5x55 - 275 yd - 6x - German # 4

Sako I suppose eastern hunters can get longer shots than 300 yards on fields and power lines,over big swamps but your experience is probably more typical. I have killed in the east at 300 yards a couple times over swamps and power lines.But it's more typical in my neck of the woods to kill well inside that distance.

There isn't much need for more than 6X back here. The west is different...sometimes. But even there you will kill a lot of game with nothing over 6X unless you are a LR expert and specialize at that sort of shooting.

i have had a leupold 4.5x14 since they first came out,
it has been on several rifles that were carried virtually everyday for a lot of years

i virtually never have it on anything but 14,,,the last 3 years a new zeiss 4.5x14 variable has been getting used alot, about 60 coyotes and numerous other animals, i cant think of one that was shot on anything less than 14, with the z800 reticle it works,,,

few days ago i was wishing for 20x as i was looking at some deer, my eyes have really chaged over the years,,,

Rick,

Some people "handicap" themselves with 6x (or other fixed-power scopes) because they've found variables to be less reliable.

All these scope threads are so much academics. The scopes we have now are awesome, almost all of them work great. 6X will go hundreds of yards, as expressed.

99.9% of hunters/shooters wouldn't know if their scope is reliable or if some other of the multitude of factors affecting accuracy is actually causing the problem; they have no way to test a scope on a bench or the desire to shoot a 25 yard travel test.

A fixed 6 power scope is all that is necessary if, as some posts reflect, shots are close and the target is large. It's also fine if you just want a cheap scope.

But on this forum we're talking about long range shooting and hunting. A wise person would look at the equipment used by those who care about hitting what they shoot at, like in a target game based in hunting scenarios. Everyone is shooting a variable power scope with some high end power. Setting up a long range rifle for hunting similarly will result in better success.

In the shotgun world the same applies. Taking a well-fit shotgun into the field that has been set up for sporting results in better wing shooting.

A scope limited to 6 power even equipped with turrets is hardly the best choice for long range

Here's a list of scopes used by the top precision shooters in the country...
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/12/22/best-rifle-scope-what-the-pros-use/

This why you are the "antelope-sniper"

rcauglia
If you read the original question, it was "How far will a 6X take you on deer" It was not "what is the best long range scope" Two substantially different questions.

I agree. Back when I purchased a Savage .223 heavy barrel the groups started to open up at around 2,200 round count. Because I was used to magnums I figured it was shot out. Again my ignorance was showing. A friend told me to get rid of the Burris Signature 8-32X and put on another scope. I did and the next group was back to its normal self: 5 shots at 100 yards measured .312".

Wow I would not have expected S&B to have such a commanding lead. Would have expected NF to be much closer. What's up with that!

Guys you mean to tell me that most shooters can't tell if a scope has gone haywire?

I can't buy into that.

Most think the loads are bad or not their day and put it back in the safe. A bad. mirror in a scope will shoot 1 1/2" groups and that's fine for the average hunter so I can see it happening more often that not. In fact I have bought new in the box scopes that had this problem always test new scopes on a proven shooter before they are used for load development

So, instead of answering the OPs question you come along to act like a dick and start a fight over an off-topic soapbox issue for you.

Got it.

My longest kill was either 556 or 565, I forget. On a whitetail doe.

With IRONS on an AR15 in 223 with a 75 amax.

6x can take you a LONG ways.

But then again there are as many reasons for a fixed scope only as there are for more X in the back pocket just in case...

Rick,

Thanks for all the info, though I had heard of the blog before, and even looked at it more than once. Had even heard of using a shotgun that fits in the field.

I have found, however, that there are ways to test scopes without having the 25-yard setup, including (but not limited to) mounting them on a rifle and shooting. In fact, I've found shooting often provides more information, since not all scopes take kindly to actual shooting, including some expensive ones.

Have also known quite a few people who somehow consistently hit animals beyond 500 yards without big variables. Some even use 6x, but more than one prefers a fixed 10x.

Gotten your pair of variables back from the repair shop yet?

Use variables because I like options. Turned the scope up to near max almost every time I had the time. Do not have real good eyes and seeing better is a good thing. Could have used less power but even at 50 yards in the brush it is nice to be sure what you are seeing is really horns not limbs. I know that scopes are aimers not lookers but in the woods, when you see a deer, you may have time to aim or look not both. On further thought, have never used a 6X but keep scope set about there and it has always been OK when I had to use it that way. Something else for me to ponder. LOL

400 yards. Have not tried any further. That was with a Leupold 6x42.

All of my variables stay on 6x. They've been there so long they may be stuck in place.

For several decades I've been running around with scopes that bottom out at about 6X. A couple years ago I equipped a Marlin Guide gun with a 2.5 X, headed to the range, and could not even see the 1/2" bulls eye on my workup targets. Needless to say, initial efforts were rather poor.

I worked up another target with a 3" bull that meshes with the scope perfectly, and now get near MOA performance out of a 45-70.

I think the answer to the original post is that it depends on ones target. Ground squirrels at 600 yds, I don't think so. Deer or elk, not a problem.

ever shoot a buck with a tine broke off? Sure makes you feel like a fool to shoot a buck with a screwed up rack on an expenisve out of state hunt!!

The reasoning explained to me many years ago when I first started fiddling with long range stuff:

If you can see/hit (whatever it is you want to see hit) at 100 yards with irons, then it is the same same for a 10X at 1000 yards.

For me here lately seeing with irons to 100 has gotten to be an effort anymore.

I regularly take out milk jugs, which are the same size as the vitals of a deer, at 500 yds w/ several of mine.

I don't care what scopes precision target shooters use because I'm not a precision target shooter; I'm a hunter who appreciates the KISS principle.

I also have no need to go to true long range, and recognize Rick does more of that than I do. No doubt what works for him works for him just as well as What works for me works for me and that he feels no more limited by sending in his heavy scopes for repair than I do making shots on the first try at the longest ranges I can find to practice around here.

Several reasons-

- Sponsorship
- Up until this year NF did not make a 20+x power front focal plane scope
- An over belief in the minuscule differances in "glass"

The 5-25x PMII was the best built higher powered FFP scope until this year. The tides are turning. The last couple matches I shot this year were covered in Vortex Razor HD II's and NF BEASTs. With the release of the 4-16x and 5-25x NF ATACR F1's there will be a BUNCH used.

Can you hit a deer in the vitals with a peep sight at 100 yards? If that's a yes, then you'll have no problem hitting a deer in the vitals at 600 yards with a 6X quality rifle scope..spend some time learning how it all works, and you'll do just fine with a 6X.

Pat, what glass does that .220 Swift of yours wear?

Any rifle that has finger grooves worn into the stock still just amazes me.

Formid: Thanks.

Why on earth would you try to bring logical thought into this argument?

I guess I should mention I've never shot any deer with a 6x, but I've shot a bunch with variables set to 5-6x. So much so that I do not consider it a handicap to have a fixed 6 on a deer rifle. I could give a schidt what the precision guys are doing and I honestly don't even care that Ringman loves high power Tasco junk on his "deer spotting rifle". Whatever you wanna hunt is fine by me, just don't try and tell me my way is wrong because you saw a list of what "precision shooters" are using on the internet.

Yes, thanks for your concern. It says a lot. Especially from someone who shouldn't be

Shot a little today with the 6.5-20 Mark 4 LR ERT M5. An Audette with the .264 and RL-33 with the new Kreiger 5R...




Shot at 550 yards. 72 grains to 75 grains (the high shot that showed pressure). The whole ladder had about an inch of vertical. Loaded in the middle of the node at 74 grains right on the lands and shot a little group at the same range of 550....





I had my scope power on 20X BTW...




I'm sure Pat shot that group with his S&B set on 6X.


LOL!

This $4000 scope is uber. Oops, wrong forum....

So, rather than aiming at 2" paint spots at 550, how about aiming at the vital zone on deer?

Earlier you said something along the lines of 6x being OK for large targets not far away. Let the deer vital zone be how large. You tell us how far, without being facetious please.

Last time I mentioned how far a 6x has taken me, it turned into a saga. Right, Rick?

Was that with the 140 Berger, curious because I just bought some Berger 140's for my 264?

Everyone has a personal preference. I prefer to have the option to turn the power down for shooting position reasons or target location reasons and also the option to turn it up for accuracy and precision. Just giving an opinion on what works for me. If ya'll want to shoot at targets and game with irons and low powered scopes at long range, I really couldn't give a good schitt.

Merry Christmas!



Yessir! Found a load in 7 shots and confirmed with 8 more. I don't think I'll even adjust the seating depth much

Question was about 6x but not necessarily a fixed 6x. Thanks for all responses

rcamuglia,



Thanks for the simple straight answer.

RC, what range will 6x take you to on deer?

It is really not a simple question.

Many here have said that 600yds is no problem . Maybe or maybe not.

I would say that just because we can resolve, in good light, well enough to aim at the deer does not necessarily mean 6X is enough for shooting game at that distance. Aiming the rifle with enough precision is just one part of the issue of actually killing game.

6X is not enough to adequately read the mirage for your wind call and at 600yds you will be holding some wind more often than not when shooting game.

6X is not enough, for me @ 600yds, to be sure I am picking the right buck out of a crowd, ensuring the buck is clear of intervening brush or clear of other animals. This is especially true in challenging light conditions.

While there is no doubt that game has been taken at 600yds with 6X that does not mean it is wise to do such things.

In my opinion 400yds is a pretty reasonable max range if you are limited to 6X on the optic but I suspect not all will agree.

That response makes alot of sense, well thought out.

Yah, but it addresses the question and that's uncalled for!

Longest shot with 6X was 438 yds. I would have rather had 8X, but 6X worked.

287 yards.

Having said that I can murder 12" gongs at 500 all day long with my FX3 6x42 with the LRD reticle.

That's a: 5-15X. Not just a 6X

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So by the same yds/magnification ratio you would limit a fixed 4X to approximately ~250yds? I don�t have any problems hitting a 3 inch diamond at 200 yds with a 6 � lb 308 win and Leupold 4X (and it is only ~ 1.25 moa rifle). Recently I have been playing around shooting groups with variables cranked up and down in power and just don�t see much difference in group size as long as the aim point is large enough. Full disclosure, my local range only goes out to 200 yds.

Hunting and target shooting are different disciplines with shared characteristics. The higher X provides a greater degree of aiming precision on target but at the same time reliability is a major consideration in the field. The individual question we all make is where to make the compromise. For me, the answer is different on a solo back pack trip in CO vs a Midwest deer hunt where a replacement rifle is a short drive away.

Fixed 6X's

The guys who were defending the stick shift have been quiet.

Those stuck with a 6X as all they have can't get over it.

While I got a 6X as a first centerfire hunting scope over 60 years ago it still makes me smile when I read some have not moved on.

Of the new scopes I am using the 4.5-14 Leu. was good the other day. That's my current favorite.

Fixed 6X scope any good? <--No Thanks!

I feel the same way about people who are hung up on 3 position safeties and CRF.

Try either of those shots with the 4.5-14 Leupold you're using and you'll be wishing you had a 6x42.

or a 1.5-6x42...grins

Who gives a flying fu** what your favorite is, that wasn't the question.

I don't normally use crude language, but I kind of miss your PMs. Make sure to put me on ignore so I can't respond.

That is a fact.

The 6x42's specs: Linear Field of View (ft/100 yd) 17.30 ft

The 4.5-14's specs: Linear Field of View (ft/100 yd) 19.90 ft 7.40 ft

I have and use both scopes. It isn't all about a number on a spec sheet.

mathman could have told you but didn't the 19.9' field of view scope has a 32% larger field of view than the 17.3' scope. To properly understand numbers I ask myself if a 32% increase in pay would be worth the change.

Some people are unfamiliar with box...

My first riflescope for hunting was a 6 Lyman Wolverine.

I was deer hunting with my late dad in some hardwoods in VT and a couple of deer came towards me running past a tree quite close.

I raised my rifle and tried to aim it but I could only see some fur. It was too much scope for that close distance.

Later I got some 4X scopes for the woods.

So the last 6x scope you tried was six decades ago?

There is a Lyman 6X All American with the extra scopes on the cabinet.

I put a Leu 6X on a nice .22 sporter. Think it's a 6x32mm.

6X's are ok, in fact sometimes just right. I might turn one of my variables to 6X.

The Leupold you mentioned sounds like a compact version, because of the small objective diameter. If so, it won't have the same eyepiece and eye relief characteristics as the 6x42 model.

Most variables when turned to 6x aren't as friendly as the 6x42 Leupold either, so saying "my variable has a 6x in it" doesn't always hold water. A 3.5-10x40 Leupold comes close.

Don't try a 6X on this shot.



The antlers won't fit in a 6X's tiny field of view.

I doubt the game warden would approve, no matter the scope.

Rick,
Inquiring minds want to know?

No doubt, the lighting is inadequate.

I would hope that your mind would have something more important on it


The only time I have a scope set to 6X is when I'm set up calling coyotes. At that magnification I have no problem shooting coyotes from the end of my muzzle to 200 yards. I killed this dog at 250 yards with the scope set on 8X. The rest wasn't the best; seated with sticks. I had also called him, so he was moving a lot and looking for me. 8 power was good in this situation. Target was pretty small for the 8 power as he was facing me looking for me.



I killed this one in the same position, seated with sticks, but at 565 yards. The dog was unaware of me, so I had time to crank the power to 20X and get as steady as possible.




When this question was posted, the real problem is the size of the target/power of the scope.

Sure a deer is a large target, but we're not just talking about hitting the animal. We're talking about hitting its vitals which are a smaller target, say 10". Like I've said, a lot of things depend on the choice of power. I like to have options.

6X is a .22LR plinker scope, close quarters varmint scope or a 100-200 stand hunter's deer scope.

10" targets are about 3 MOA at 300 yards. 6X will get you by. If I was shooting a deer at 300 yards and had the option, a solid rest and the time to increase my power setting from 6X to 20X, I would instantly. It will increase my ability to precisely place the shot.

If you want to really find out what works for you, simply shoot different sized targets at 100 yards and see how they look through your scope. I was shooting my buddy's AR the other day with a 1-6X set on 6X. The crosshairs completely cover a 1 MOA dot at 100 yards (1" bull). That isn't enough power for me. We shot 1 1/2" dots at 100 yesterday during our Tac Match. I will guarantee you that everyone had their scopes set to the highest magnification 20+X, even though we ran from our ammo to our rifles between each shot under time.

A 3" dot at 100 yards is about 3 MOA and 6X will do if that's all ya got.

I think it's a matter of what a shooter is used to as well. I practice a bunch at 300 yards with 6x scopes on targets a lot smaller than deer vitals. A 3 MOA target looks huge to me.

My brother shot this one @ a measured 600yds.

He has probably shot twice in the past decade.

6X42:

Here's what a 9"X 12" at 760 yards (1 1/2 MOA?) looks like on 6X

It's all relative. This is what an inch and a half dot would look like at 100 yards, a 6" target would look like at 400 yards, etc...

Not enough magnification for me to feel I could hit it more than miss it. With the crosshairs on it, it would be almost completely obscured.

What'd he kill with the other shot?

Dirt. He was really drunk and missed me.



Travis

Ahh. The infamous "dirt nap."

420 yard first shot coyote, using a 6x Leupold atop a .25-06 with a 115 Nosler Ballistic Tip. No problem:


Also have a 400 yard one-shot mule deer doe, same rifle, same 6x scope. No problem.

My son took a good bear with the old .30-06, 6x Leupold, 320 yards. No problem. Only a few days after smacking his targets at the range, 100, 200 & 300 yards.

Really, the 6x is an excellent general purpose hunting scope. I like it to about 400 yards or so, maybe a little farther.

Regards, Guy

A while back you asked me about shooting at 1" dots at 100 yards with a 6x scope. I did try it with a 6x Leupold with a fine duplex in it, but I used 3/4" dots. IIRC I hit nine out of ten shots, the miss just off the edge coming before I made a slight adjustment to the scope.

Actually that in no way represents the perspective of looking through a 6x scope. Through the scope pics never represent what the shooter sees through the scope. It strikes me as odd that someone who considers themselves a marksman, somehow believes that 6x is only good for 200 yards. When I hear things like that and if the person IS skilled at distance shooting, it's clear that their skill and knowledge is narrow even if it has depth. I hear it the most from LR Tac/sniper competitors. They may be good long range shooters (or may not be), but often they have very little experience outside of those matches using 15-20lb LR guns.


If one were to ask a skilled 3 gun competitor the same regarding 6x magnification, with shots ranging from muzzle to 450-500 yards, they'd tell you that 6x is plenty to hit the average target which is 8-12 inches.

S&B is by far the best scope that I have ever used, especialy in low light. They are also very reliable and the turrets are very precise.

All I know is, I have no trouble centering the crosshairs of a 6X on a 12" target at 550 and hitting it. And I'm not what you'd call a highly-skilled marksman.

The AR I was shooting belonged to a shooting buddy of mine who is one of the most heavily sponsored 3 Gun shooters in the country. He wanted me to shoot groups with it to test some different ammo. He says he's no good a shooting groups.

Shot them at 100 and at 430 at a 24" plate. The 24" plate seemed about right for the scope and rifle which shot about 2 MOA.

He laughed when I told him about the guys on this thread who think a 6x scope is great for long range shooting.

I don't recall saying 6x was great or best for long range shooting. My contention is it isn't nearly the restriction you think.

Since I so often fail at finding what I want with the "search" feature I will merely mention he didn't limit it to 200 yards with a 6X for deer. He suggested 6X would be about max for 400 yard deer.

The question wasn't whether a 6X was "great" or "the best". The question was, how far will one take you.

You know these threads wander hither and yon from the original question or statement. And it is a fact some here have posted, and others have defended them, about how great the 6X is for anything.

Mr. formy,


You've posted plenty on the site and tried to present yourself as a guy who really knows a lot about optics and long range shooting. I've yet to see any evidence.

Hey rcamuglia, how old are you?

My wife, daughter, college buddies of my son, my 79yr old father that hasn't shot a rifle in 10years, etc., don't have any problem hitting 12" steel at 500yds w/ 6x - in a lightweight rifle - even from prone off a backpack (except my dad, he wasn't laying down to shoot...)

David

When I'm 79, I won't shoot prone either. Hopefully.

Old enough

rcamuglia
There is a difference between arguing that a deer can be killed at 600 yards with a 6X scope, and saying that a 6x scope is the best scope for long range shooting. I am not a long range shooter, but if I am going to shoot groups at 300 yards, I prefer a scope of higher magnification. But, I do know that if necessary, a 6X scope can be used to hit things a long way away. A good shot with a service rifle wearing iron sights can keep most of his shot in the 6 inch X ring at 600 yards. Think what he could do with a 6X scope.

I'm up for a 6x/100 yard/1 MOA target challenge.....





For cash

Feel free to tear apart what I've written in this thread about 6x scopes. How is it that all those 3 gunners crush 8 and 10 inch flash targets out to 500 yards from really crappy positions while being timed, but a LR competition shooter believes they are only good for coyotes at 200? Could it be because his experience is all based on dedicated LR guns..?


Say... How are those Leupolds doing that failed exactly like I said they would...?

I hate fixed 6x riflescopes..... and that was all I ran for about 10 years when I was a kid. Old Weaver K6 for $99.00.... those things were tough. I killed plenty of coyotes and a couple deer with them... some way out there.... but that was before rangefinders too. These days, I'd much rather have a quality 3-9x.... or even a fixed 10x... but I can understand how folks wanna keep it simple.

Fixed 6x.... pretty great on a sporting rifle.... pretty schitty at a sporting rifle match.... kinda ironic.

Not really.

One bunch knows something and the other very little

Would your 'hunting'... meaning actual killing of schitt... suffer much if you were forced to shoot a fixed 6x piece of glass? How?

I know it wouldn't have much.... if any... effect on my opportunities or ability to kill critters, especially big game.

I love pounding steel.... you know that... and I know my hits on the 12" plates out past 500-600 would suffer. But that's on steel... on shots I would only take one time in a hundred to punch a tag. Real world.... being forced to go 6x wouldn't change my 'hunting' much at all..... but it would effect my steel ego a bit.

Past 600 on deer. Including other things with 8-10in vitals... Around 800m with 1-4x's.


I don't use and never have used 6x scopes because they are the best for long range. Rather every choice is a compromise, and for a long time they made a lot of sense for most hunting. Namely fixed 6x Leupolds were the only $300 scopes that were reliable enough and had enough magnification for hunting out to around 600 yards. They still are. Except that the 6x SWFA's are better still.

As far as how far... It depends. On 8-10 in targets- deer, under good conditions i.e.- good lighting, decent presentation, etc. 600 yards give or take is comfortable. Under low light, drizzling with terrain that matches the color of animals- 400 +/- may be pushing it.

It should be just the opposite.

Hits on steel, other than when the chips are down in competition, matter not...

The precise delivery of a payload on a living animal to result in a humane kill is paramount.

I like a 6x42 for hunting, because I hunt by myself in the mountains quite a bit. The large FOV ( and coupled with lower recoiling cartridges) makes spotting hits and misses quite a bit easier, for me personally. I would have no problem turning a variable down to 6x solely for the purpose of spotting my shot.

Tanner

Probably right

I'm sure there's plenty more misses to spot on 6x than the precisely placed impacts shot from a scope on the appropriate, higher power.

Whatever you say, hombre.... You've got it all figured out...

Tanner

So how would it change your hunting success?

Don't single me out. There's plenty of others that do as well.

Ya ought to come shoot the SRM sometime with Josh. There's plenty of targets 500 and in. In fact, most of them are. It would be fun for me to see how the course would be shot with a scope set at 6 the entire time.

I've never fired a shot at a target on the course with less than 15X dialed in including a station shot from sticks where the longest plate is 390 yards

Did Ya' notice the part about "solo, mountain hunting"? I never extolled the virtues of a 6x on static steel targets, for use in a match involving heavy rifles and high magnification scopes... Because I wouldn't shoot a 6x at one...

Tanner

It would be fun to see the course shot with an actual hunting rifle, say sub-9lbs... off the pack...no Kestrel.... no range card.... glass'em, range'em, bang'em.... under your 4min hard-deck.

Mine was the closest I saw to anything resembling a 'hunting' rifle.... it wore fixed 12x.... and weighed 9.3lbs. I know..... a 'hunting' rifle is what it is, and if you can pack it you can pack it.... just saying a squad of 8-9 guys running 'hunting rigs' for a $20/ea side pot would be interesting.

I've told you before, I've shot the match with my factory A-Bolt and a VX2 and paper data. Shot 45 beating plenty of Operators with $5,000 rigs.




The match replicates hunting. It can and should be shot with what you'd hunt with, if only to reveal your rifle/scope combination's and your personal limitations.

One of my friends who is a top precision shooter in the country, shot a 3 at one match....

Maybe he should have shot the match with his scope set on 6. LOL

Do those matches still start back up in February like they used to? I might try and make a couple this next year when they start up again. I haven't shot it in a couple of years.

Yep, I know a schitt load of elk and deer hunters that pack 17-20lb AIAX 6mm Creeds in the woods every year. The match only replicates hunting... if you choose to shoot it that way. The match represents an arms race full of the highest dollar swag you can strap to a rifle. How many of those rifles have ever seen the side of a mountain further than 1/2 mile from the road on a 'hunting' trip?

Still.... half those dudes with 5-25 PMIIIs couldn't manage to hit half the targets.... don't think the extra 'Xs' on the scope made any difference there. Guys who can shoot.... will beat the schitt outta 2-3 MOA targets out to 500-600 with a solid gun and 6x glass. Guys who can't shoot.... it doesn't matter what power they're running.... they're still gonna miss schitt.

It's a great 'hunting' simulator.... if you actually shoot it that way. The way it is now.... it's a great reflection of shooting skills, and your willingness to spend thousands on equipment.

I say we do a $20 entry 'Hunter' side pot match in 2015.... May maybe?

Yes

Never seen a down side to a better view.

I can see where there might be some discrepancies....

Same here. I prefer hunting alone.



I don't tend to miss. But then I use a brake on everything.



Interesting. I turn mine down to 12X to increase the field of view so I can see impacts. Of course this is at the range. When I'm hunting it starts on its lowest magnification setting and is turned up for a shot if it is farther away than off hand close.

I've shot the February match where it was 23� with 23 mph wind all day, snowing sideways.



+1 to everything in your post

I don't tend to miss either. But if I do, I want to know where.

I don't glass with my riflescope either, so there's another difference you can record.

Tanner

It's fixed now

I did well with a plastic-stocked factory hunting rifle with a 400$ scope.

.



About 2 miles from where I started.

If you bothered to comprehend ring mans thread he doesn't glass with his riflescope either. He glasses with his bino's then gets in his scope after he locates the quarry with his bino's.

Scope was on 20X too.

That's a funny-looking mountainside.....

Hey!!!!!

We are both forgetting that the SRM is a 2 mile walk through course. Every one of those rifles is carried 2 miles.

The Steel Safari has 3 different courses.

They are practical rifle matches that directly resemble hunting in every way possible.

Except the terrain, hiking, and physical exertion inherent in mountain and backcountry hunting...

Oh, you've shot both matches?

Exactly my point..... pretty easy to haul whatever you want across the flat ass prairie. Hell, I could pack Emily, and all my gear across the course in Raton.... also flat. The SRM well imitates the shot you may have at a critter.... but I didn't see a single person there, aside from myself, that was shooting a 'hunting' set-up.... they, including you, were shooting guns built specifically for 'matches'. The gun I shot has hunted at sea level to 11,000 feet. It's killed big game and small..... it represented itself well..... but, it cost me a few hits too...

How much $$$$ does the average guy have into the rifle they shoot at the SRM.... no bullschitt.... I bet the average is $5000.

I bet the average weight of a rig there is 15lbs....

If it's purely a shooting thing.... why is so much spent on equipment?

What do you think the difference in score at the SRM would be... if say Pat and John B. shot it once with their rig of choice... then, we had them shoot it again with the same rig, only change the optic to a SS 6x? Two.... maybe three plates difference?

Here's a picture of half the rifles at Raton.... I bet it's close to $70,000 worth of iron....



That second one from the front looks familiar.... you think there's another rifle on that line in a picture like this?



For those who don't know the SRM, these are all the shots we're talking about....
40/60 are 500 yards or less. Stage 7 is shot off sticks (or whatever). None of these shots are 'easy'.... there's always wind and funky terrain.... not sure magnification is the critical element to hitting any of those 40.... the rest, well....

Now it all makes sense.

Is that Flave third up from your Rifle?????

No, I think it's Shrapnel with his Flave hanging out!

Lord please forgive me and bless the pygmies in new guinea.

I'm much better looking:

I'll bring the sausage.




Clark

Your sausage looks tasty.

"Mountain"


LMAO


Come to MT with that gun. I bet by 2:00 in the afternoon, I could buy it off you for $200.

You should try smelling it.

It will make your mouth water.



Travis

Long Range Sausage.


6x Sausage!

Oops. It's was not a theoretical question...

Oh.... well if we're talking theory vs. reality. I've used 6x a lot.... which is why I have an appreciation for the quality 3-9ish....

6x36 Leupold w/heavy duplex... .25-06/100TSX

410 yards....



265 yards.... a couple hours later....

Figgers a guy who mounts a 6 power scope without turrets does it on a 25-'06...

...they're almost a Gay as a .270

LOL

Only if you wrap it in that wonderful scarf....

and jam a sparkler in the end of it.

On it.



Travis

Holy fugging Christ that hurt.





Travis

Now light it, look at it through your 6x and shoot a group.








Then POST YER LOAD.

(you knew it was....nevermind.)

The sparks looks awesome when viewed through my tear filled eyes.

Phoucc me this is awful.




Clark

PM sent.




Dave

The ultimate ego/pecker measuring contest unfolding before our very eyes.....rcamuglia squaring off against formid. Two huge egos present, only room for one. Gonna be fun! Go get 'em boys!

I hate the smell of burnt sausage.

Did you not see the size of Clark's sausage?

Hey you guys, quit messing around.

I'm trying to learn how to be a sniper hunter and this sausage hijack isn't helping.

Sorry.

Back to the regularly scheduled program.

Hey, notice the lack of my now Clooney-esque silver coiffure..... That was as a long time ago my friend. Back when my rangefinder was the size of a camcorder... it was used more after the fact.

6x worked pretty good back in then.... but I did miss a lot of coyotes that would get their ass handed to them now. Not because my optics have grown in magnification, though they have slightly, but because I now have: a rangefinder in my binocular, repeatable/reliable scope adjustments, and much more experience.

The magnification of the scope is about tenth on the list of importance when it comes to hitting stuff at sane BG ranges....

WHAT?
The sausage cooking is saving this train....

Neither one looks much like this...





There's a reason that this rifle goes on those hunts:





Instead of one like this:

Hey Jordan, need anyone to go hunting with you?????

Just devoured a sausage burger.

Blend of whitetail and beef with some pork sausage mixed in.

Ubermeat.


Wages, but not as Uber as Flaves double dong!

If you play sherpa and carry that second rifle, maybe Rick will approve and sign off on the trip

I can carry both our rifles for the weight of his.......I'd bring the NULA.

So we're on?

NO means NO!

6X42 Heavy Duplex bull elk, 7-08, 80 yards.

Luckily it was a BIG target!

Is it wrong to crave Flaves' double sausage?

I've got a feeling my rifle (the second one, not the Montucky in the first pic) and his are close in weight. You might have your hands full

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don' t,though the Haybale & Crockett "pursuits" are a fhuqking HOOT!!!

REALLY enjoyed the "trevails" associated with the Hubble Two Mile Pursuits! INSTANT fhuqking Classic!!!

NOTHING is funnier than Mall Ninja Delusions,projected to be "real" via copious Imagination and Pretend.

Laffin'!

WOW +P++!!!!

This should be the rcamuglia hunting forum instead of long range hunting. He talks as tough as Boxer/Bigstick but shoots half as much. LOL Nothing wrong with the Big xxx's but saying it cant be done with a 6x is bulls**t. Will it make it easier ya sometimes but unless you are only hunting to take long range shots the 6x will more than be enough for any sane shot. And plenty enough for some insane shots. Just my opinion not that it matters.

ROTFLMAO!

You're as sharp as a sack of wet mice!

Cool picts but where be the game?





[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/JohnBullElkNeedleCreek.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/JohnBurnsElk1102yds.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/a...014%20Elk/DSC01214_zpse1929bae.jpg[/img]

Here is a hint. There is no straight 6X in any of those picts.




Lil Fish,
Please post some picts of your 6X Exploits. It will give me a little smile.

Love and Kisses.
Your pal John.

I don't know how many rounds a year Rcamuglia shoots, but I know he usually hits what he shoots at. Nope I can't say I know him, but I know some of the crowd he shoots with and they put a lot of rounds downrange each year.

Cool two super snipers on the same thread. Rcamuglia and John Burns. Kinda of like the Best of the West. Sharp as wet sack I am.

I know it aint cool on the 24hr, but I prefer a 14-18x when I actually want to hit what i'm shooting at beyond 500..not just pulling dust around a rock and calling it a hit, but actually hitting it.

You said it.

I just get your drift. Maybe???

Whatever Burns is doing obviously gets it done, don't it?

Yeah. I've never really shot that much in my life.

...but most of my trophies don't grill up as well as John's... LOL!



4-Time NSCA Team USA
8-Time NSCA All American Team
2002 NSCA World Sporting Clays Championship Team USA Silver
2006 NSCA World Sporting Clays Championship Team USA Silver
World FITASC Team USA Gold Minnesota Horse and Hunt Club
2005 NSCA National Championship Browning All-Around Champion
2005 NSCA National Championship Krieghoff Cup Champion
2005 NSCA National Championship FITASC Champion
2001 NSCA National Championship Runner Up
2006 Pan American FITASC Champion (World Cup)
2007 NSCA National FITASC Champion
2003 NSCA National Championship Krieghoff Cup Runner Up
2005 NSCA US Open 3RD
2005 NSCA US Open FITASC Runner Up
2005 World Sporting Clays Championship FITASC Runner Up
2004 Browning/Briley Runner Up
2002 Midwest FITASC Champion
2003 Midwest FITASC Champion
2007 NSCA National Championship FITASC 3rd
9-Time New Mexico State Champion
3-Time Arizona State Shoot Champion
2-Time Colorado State Shoot Champion

...just to list a few

Multiple Sporting Rifle Match wins including a course record matching score of 58

2012 Sniper's Hide Cup 16th
2013 Sniper's Hide Cup 13th
2013 Steel Safari Runner Up
2014 Steel Safari Champion

You rebel, you!

LOL

You're one trigger pullin' SOB:)

You kids that don't know what FITASC is just consider it LONG RANGE Sporting Clays.

Busting crossers at 80yds is just a taste. Do it again and again. If you don't have a few Suburbans of lead on the bird then you ain't donin it right is sort of the motto.

Rick might be bustin a few balls for fun but a smart guy would listen to what he says. Might be fun to bust balls right back but still listen.

Spray tan and crest white strips aside, that last bull is a beaut. Flattering camera angle,but still a hell of a bull,congrats.

What's the point? Anyone can tan!

Damm rosco - you beat me toooooit!

Great pictures JB! That's what this thread needs more of!

Here's my contribution....

In the deep freeze. Yours?

You're just mad 'cause there's no tanning beds and men's hair salons up there and your pics didn't turn out.....

for 20 years, used to shoot 1000 rounds of 12 gauge every Saturday and Sunday during the season in practice.

I'm sure I shot more in a weekend than most here do in their lifetime, and at least as much as Weak Stick pretends to do in a fuggen year

...and it's just a hobby. Imagine if I actually took it seriously

Your best attribute is your humility. Wouldn't you agree?

Hilarious..... Rick gets challenged about how much he shoots, so he throws up a few credentials.... and now he's conceded?

Burns throws up pictures of dead schitt, and offers some sage advice..... and all anybody wants to talk about is his Mike Shannahan tan.

Hint....

I've shot with Rick..... the dude can shoot.... he won the SRM by a wide margin when I was there in May, in horrible conditions. We'll be hunting Aoudad in about 6-weeks down in TX.... I'll try to film him clobbering one at LR..... just for all you haters.

I've shot with Burns.... the dude can shoot, and is not nearly as tan in person. I have more respect for John and the advice he's given me over the past 10 years... than anyone who posts on this board.

Ya'll are fhugkin with the wrong guys if hitting schitt at LR is the discussion. Anyone who owns two course records at the SRM can run a rifle pretty f'n well., and hit small stuff at extended ranges. Burns has more LR kills on film than any 5 of the rest of you combined.... and has been doing that for 15 years.

I disagree with some of their optics and rifle choices.... but I certainly can't disagree with the LR shooting philosophies they adhere to. Credentials can excuse a great deal of hubris, and those two have credentials.

If you haven't shot with them.... then you don't have any clue who you're talking schitt about. As a wise OompAlasksn once said "take notes, and apply same".

I don't have a problem with Burns' tan.

But that forehead is fugging ridiculous.




Travis

Having respect for someone's accomplishments doesn't mean you can't disagree with some of their opinions, or recognize personality traits like narcissism.

Additionally, have you shot with everyone you're chastening right now? I wonder how many plaques and titles Harrison had before joining the military? Or how many videos of LR critter shots he made? Some guys have accomplished great things in more humble circumstances, or are too humble to be constantly tooting their own horn about what they've done. Pat Sinclair is one example. He and George Gardner both get a great deal of respect from me, and not just for their shooting, but also the grace with which they carry their accomplishments. I certainly respect the accomplishments of Rick and John as well, and I think both are good guys, but they both make sure to get enough face time so the world knows about their exploits

He'll never post about it publicly, but there are very few people out there that have killed anything, let alone something as small as a coyote, at the distances Pat has.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and lighten up a little. I know Burns can shoot, hell, I've also asked his advice and he's always responded. I wouldn't do that with someone whose abilities I didn't respect.

Thing is, Burns is a big boy and he can dish it out (and take it) with the best of 'em. Hell, I think he even enjoys it:

FUNNY fhuqking schit! Now choke tubes and Haybale & Crockett "pursuits"...are "barometers" of glass "evaluation"?!? Now that is EPIC fhuqking humor!

I'd hang a video of gunning .a 5 MOA 700+yd MPAJ hasty cluster via "lowly" 6x while laughing my ass off at Clueless Kchunts who feign a fhuqking clue,but them facts would be more than a touch unsettling for the couchbound Hubble Crowd. It's offa ruck,less any DooDaddery,JipJappery and Mall Ninjary,which is a curious constant and antithesis of the hand held foibles of poor poor Stupid Fhuqking Burns and his "Get Some!" "exploits",while hopping barbed-wire and really getting after it. Laughing!



The reliable arrangement of distant and dastardly POA/POI intersections is hardly a feat and few things mean less in the dot connectin',than X's. Hint.

Not that I don't enjoy the side splitting hilarity of the poor poor STUPID fhuqks,doing their "best" to find difficulty,where there assuredly is none.

Pardon my being afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess.

Just sayin'.

Should add,that I REALLY miss the days when Whining Kchunt Burns would "ban" folks,for calling him on his lying fhuqking bullschit...before he got ran out of business on a rail,for being the lying Snake that he is.

Funny schit!

Oops,the Dissertation on B&C stocks and aluminum bedding blocks was fhuqking hilarious too.

I wonder if she is still gunning all them "advantages"?!?

Laughing!!!!!.................

Now you done started it... bragging, you arrogant SOB... LOL

Nice few credentials there!

Did not know you shot shotgun... I shoot them too. But not well at all. LOL

I was teasing him. Relax.

Just curious, but does anyone have a pic through their 6x at a target of known size at range?

I know.... I'm just sayin. I think it's hilarious that folks can't recognize what's what, and who can do what, with what, wherever, whenever..... so, whatever.

Jordan... I'm not chastising anybody, especially not the guys with the records/trophies/businesses/TV shows showing what's what. like I said... I disagree with Ric daily.... and he laughs at me. There's a few folks I have a lot of respect for as riflemen here... I disagree with most of them. But I don't just fhugk with them either....

'Stick.... thanks for using your precious daily post to sort all this out for us. More pics of dead Blacktails next time please.... preferably dead via 6x, as we all know you've pimped them for years. Pics of fresh chrome can be substituted for blacktail...

Good post






I'm surprised you didn't know since, according to jordan, I'm always tooting my own horn.



While we're on the subject, here's some nice pics for the crybabies....

Just try to think of them as the result of things I've shot that didn't have horns...
LOL














[img]http://i379.photobucket.com/al...22-4E25-ADDD-AA13CAA24E15.png.jpeg[/img]

[img]http://i379.photobucket.com/al...D7-D69A-438F-B5AE-BAC633615130.png[/img]

[img]http://i379.photobucket.com/al...C6-1CFF-4393-94B0-0D3363659DE4.png[/img]

[img]http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/rcamuglia/P1000895.jpg[/img]




Toot Toot!!!

You kicked Butt!!!

Teasing - on such a serious topic?

Old pic of mine showing the FX-3 6x42 M1 Duplex at the couch!

I think this has become relevant again.... Damm Rick!

Awe shucks...

This is a great thread. Keep 'er goin' guys!

LOL, well it looks like we're on the same page

Someone's gotta make you look right once in a while!

A 9"X 12" plate at 760 yards.

LOL, you're too kind!

Where?

LOL!

That's what I'm getting at.

...just above and left of the crosshair intersection.

You'd think that someone that shoots so straight would be able to hang a picture straight too!
Nice job!!!

The picture is straight.... He shoot with the rifle at that angle all the time.... it's fhugkin Gangsta

This reminds me of a friend's room. He used to shoot pistol silhouette. When he showed up most realized they were trying for second place.

All I have to to is cant the gun to cancel wind drift.

Ancient Chinese Secret....

rcamuglia,

Congrat's on all of your competitive shooting successes!

That's a lot of commitment and skill. Very impressive.




I had no idea.

Let me know when it's time for the girly pics.

Thanks MM

Yeah, you don't just show up to these things and get it done without a lot of blood, sweat and tears.....literally.

I wrestled with the idea of putting it out here, but came to the conclusion that it's no different than anyone here hanging pictures of fantastic successes on hunts. It's not bragging if you can do it.

The 'net is is funny place; with all the anonymous posters, it's impossible to know who you are talking to. I guess I've grown tired of taking [bleep]. It gets old....I've accomplished things not many have or ever will.

I know that some posters with integrity sometimes get sick of the crap and actually leave the boards.

Looking forward to it! Didn't know I was gonna be in the presence of legend.... I'll run backup on the filming just in case.....

My daughter, who is fresh into the competitive side of 4-H shotgun, was sitting beside me when I was reading through the posts. She thought that was pretty UBERish and said she could skip a few days of 7th grade to go get some pointers.

I hope you can edit well

Boxer

Congrat's on all of your competitive shooting successes!

That's a lot of commitment and skill. Very impressive.


Boxer? I had no you shot in competitions. ??

Where do you shoot ? Results?

Thanks 10

Hasn't worked out to meet Rc' in person but have talked to him on the phone and PM. He's been very personable and has helped me with a few things and made a very generous offer to help my kid.

Rick Congrats on all the Trophies. Humble man that you are. Still doesn't mean you cant hit or see a 1 MOA target with a 6x. If all I was doing was shooting game or targets at 500 yards or more then more XX's might be the all time answer. But for what I do the 6x works fine and I know from experience that I can reach out to at least 700 yards with the 6x and still hit and see a 1 MOA target. I like simple things because "Im as sharp as a wet bag of rice" It works for me. And Fitasc always seemed to me like shooting at running coyote's. Small fast ones. Was a lot of fun.

Actually it's "sharp as a sack of wet mice"

Foghorn Leghorn ya know....

Told you I was sharp

I LOLed at that one.


It is not getting smaller these days. Might be a 5 1/2.

GFY.



GET SOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lil Fish,

Banging steel and killing deer are not exactly the same. That would be a hint and you should take a note of it and apply it.

It seems everybody but Lil Fish is having a good time in this thread and maybe a little interesting discussion is going on with the ball bustin.

Rick, pretty incredible to say the least. A lot of hard work to earn all those trophies. Honestly leaves me wondering. Why do you feel compelled to start a dust up over 6x scopes? I mean, honestly take a look at page one. I'd think a guy with a resume like that would have enough integrity to walk away and not be "that guy".

Hey, it's my favorite part about myself. That and my awesomeness.

WTF?????

Rick's integrity is not in question. He has an opinion and that is what you got.

If you don't want to read differing opinions then this "Internet" thing might not be your cup of tea.

OMG - no wonder you are confused, at long ranges, you have to aim higher Rick, especially with a 6x! It'll make your target appear lower than the crosshair thingys.

Ditto Rick. Now I also have remember you don't look just like Al Swearengen.

Would you rather have 6x?

Or 20x?

The first thing that comes to my mind when I see Rick's resume is "VERY impressive"! The man obviously knows the deal!

The next thing that comes to my mind is that Rick is certainly qualified more than most for long range shooting. Even so, he recently had a first round miss on a distant antelope. His skill is not in question. The difficulty of the task leaves me wondering if most need to back down on their distance if a first round ethical kill is the objective. Most of us would be better served with a fixed 6 and maximum point blank range.

The last thing is that as much as Rick shoots he is still stubborn enough to trust a Leupold! I had (he recently relocated to a different state) a gunsmith neighbor with a benchrest resume as long as Rick's. World Cup Team USA, etc. I will never forget the first time I went into his shop. He was giving a Leupold scope a good tongue lashing. After a few expletives he told me "We all use them but we damn sure dont trust them".

We have a winner!

I hear what you're saying, and there's truth in it. But I'd be willing to wager that if all of us backed down to shots that we'd made 100 % of the time, most of us would have to quit altogether. Which is another way of saying we've all missed shots that are within our capabilities.

I remember that post though. As I recall, I think he shaded his wind hold such that he made a clean miss, then corrected on the next shot. Hard to find fault with that result.

6x will never take a rifle to its full capability. This is a pretty simple thing to test..... shoot a couple groups with your variable power optic at 3x, 6x, and 9x.... betcha the groups are smaller on 9x than either of the others. Law of Diminishing returns applies.... as other factors such as FOV, eye box/relief, etc. must be considered.

Here's how I see it.... pick the Max range and target size you'd like to be able to hit. Then, pick the optic based on that.

Example: I want to consistently make 1st round hits on 2 MOA sized targets out to 800 yards. This is a pretty reasonable goal, there are matches all over the country that use the 1.5-2.5 MOA targets as a sort of 'standard'... and that's solid hits in big game vitals.

For me, I have no problem with a 3-9x or fixed 10x given the above example. I can see how folks with glasses, contacts, lesser vision, etc. would require more magnification for the same task.

Not sure I would have the same confidence past about 600 with a 6x. I've never felt like 9-10x was too much.... even calling coyotes. But every time I go fixed 6x there's an immediate instance when I want more magnification.

I think 6x as a Rev Limiter of sorts is a pretty decent idea... most folks shouldn't be shooting at BG past about 250 anyway. So, if you put in a little work, a 6x should take you out to 500 yards on 2 MOA sized targets quite well, and still serve well inside bow range.

I'll know soon... there's a 6x SS en route...

I look forward to Rick's culinary posts on cooking an old Aoudad ram. I think it will put his skills to the test.

Hey, if you think while earning any of those trophies and placing how I did that I never missed, you really don't know how things work

The winner is the guy who makes the least mistakes and misses

Here's an example to clearly illustrate to you why it is best to err on the side of a clean miss than a poor hit. It also illustrates why anyone who is in to rifle shooting at long range should attend any type of organized match they can and do so on a regular basis.


At our precision/tactical matches, we engage shoot/no shoot targets. Basically a steel target that is supposed to simulate a Hostage/Hostage taker situation. They are always shot under time, with stress, and sometimes even with strange shooting positions.






The hostage is white (of course ;)) and the hostage taker in this pic is the red flasher. Obviously in real life you don't want to hit the hostage

Hits on the red plate count as additions to your score and any hits on the hostage are negative points.

In this situation, it is pretty smart to err on the side of a clean miss if you'd like any chance of winning the match
That means holding on the safe side of your windage judgment....

These are the type of things you learn in competitive shooting that you apply directly to the field

If a person claims he never missed, he's either a liar or doesn't shoot enough that he should be listened to.

Never miss, every bullet launched hits something.

Given the reliability of today's better variables & for a very minimal weight penalty, depending on choice, I guess my question is, why would you want to limit yourself to a 6x if you really intend & will be shooting regularly, past 400 yards or so at game?

MM

For real highcountry, multi-day, backpack hunting (not the imaginary, cyber-version of same), a fixed is going to be more stout/reliable than a variable (same brand - brand), as well as being lighter.

Not all BG is the same size, but with a 6x I'm comfortable to 500+ yards on deer-sized game and 600+ on elk in field conditions.

But I'm not going to shoot ANY animal past 600 yards.

A 6X Fixed is KISS and highcountry backpack hunting and KISS go hand in glove. Murphy hates this sort of hunting above sitting in a deer stand, or wandering the wide open shooting coyotes.

That's not to say variables don't have their place, they certainly do. And the extra magnification in a variable is bad how?

Not all tools are intended for the same purpose, any more than an F22 can do the job of a 777... even though they're both airplanes.

One has to determine one's needs based on what and how something is hunted.

But rest assured, EVERY choice is a compromise in one way or the other. You just have to determine how you want to make YOUR compromise...

Some of the best shooters i have ever known ,shoot the same rifle for everything topped with a 6x scope.

And most shooters are not capable of delivering a good shot at 500 yards with any scope on any gun, almost all the time. Not everyone here qualifies as "most shooters". There are an awful lot of hunters in North America who NEVER get to shoot anything beyond 100 yards. A 3 MOA red dot covers that well enough with no magnification at all. So do iron sights, apertures, peeps, neutron bombs etc.

Most shooters ARE capable.... they just don't know it... and hamstring themselves from the start with poor choices in rifles/glass/bullets/etc. Everyone who can squeeze a trigger can easily make hits at 500.... provided they've done their homework, and have the 'proper' equipment.... isn't that what we're talking about?

Just today I watched my SIL go 3 for 3 on a 10" plate at 450.... then go three outta 4 at 675 on a 12"x18" plate...... she had never fired a high power rifle in her life, prior to her first round hit at 1/4 mile.

The question is: how far is 6x good to.... not how far can a 3 MOA red dot get you.

Set-up a rig correctly, put solid repeatable glass atop, select good projectiles.... then shoot a couple hundred of'em..... and schitt gets simple in a hurry... at least to 500.

More pics please....

Yep.

Here's my girlfriend's first shot with a rifle...






Here's my sister's first shot with a rifle...

Everybody should have a fine ass girlfriend who loves working over the steel....

And for those of you who hate 'match bullets'... this is via Leupold 3-9 (set on 9x) and 130 Nosler Accubonds out of an 8.5lb gun... off the pack. There's two in the plate that I shot prior to video.

[video:youtube]10cDEq7Izds[/video]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you first pass up a short shot because it was anticlimactic? Given the opportunity, would you pass up a much more makeable shot in a match in order for the challenge of a longer shot?

I would err towards the short shot.

Here is what I have determine following this post. The question is how far will 6 power get you shooting a Deer? (Please correct me if this is wrong)

1. How big is the deer......Let us say a 9 inch kill zone.
2. How accurate am I set up to shoot......Let us say 2MOA

If I am in this situation 450 yards is where my scope and reticle has to discern a 9 inch target that may or may not blend in with the terrain.

If I have a better Rest and or am somehow able to shoot under 2 MOA my scope needs to clarify a 9 inch target at a further distance. Eventually I would need to consider my bullets maximum effective range for a 250 pound cervidae. (That is if the scope can discern target out to that range)

I've killed a number of more-or-less deer-sized big game animals with no problems at 200-350 yards with an aperture-sighted rifle, so figure a 6x scope should be good to 1200-2100.

The vast majority of variable makes and models AREN'T reliable. They fail at an alarming rate and that's the point. There is no hunting variable that I would trust. Sure there are lots of examples that have done fine, but there are tons that have not as well and considering how little use most hunters impart on their gear, it'd be wise to gravitate towards scopes that have shown great durability by the hardest users.

Unfortunately manufacture's QC tends to change without notice, and therefore requires constant evaluation.

Good job by your S-I-L!



I agree. The point I was making is that most don't do that and yes, a 6X scope can go a long way....in capable hands, properly prepared. Perhaps you are an optimist and I am the pessimist? Last time I met anyone capable of taking a 6x scope to the limits I was in Wyoming several years ago.

Sorry, I don't agree with that, today.

20 years, ago, maybe.

I've manage to take pretty good care of mine, but as they say, schitt happens.

I've had to get off a horse in a hurry & bang the scope hard & I've had horses lay down & roll with the rifle in a scabbard & the scope has survived & I've never had a variable go bad under any other circumstance either........but as you say it does happen.

And & at some remote statistical level, I'm sure variable do fail more frequently than fixed scope do........but that's a very low calculated risk.

Prolly 20-30x the number of variables sold today vs fixed; unfortunately, lots of cheap, really cheap, variables make up a high % of those sales, which likely have a slightly higher failure rate than, say, NS, or even Leupold.

MM

You're wrong and stand corrected

Mule Deer....I would have to ask if you are harvesting 250 to 300 yard deer with an aperture sight were you using a six oclock hold? Would not a 2100 yard six power shot need a six oclock hold also? German reticle? Would not the upper vertical cross hair occlude the object aimed at? Or perhaps you are being........sarcastic?

hitting a 2moa vital area on a much bigger animal is not the same as hitting a 2moa target. your scope just needs to 'clarify' the deer, and you put your retical on the vital area of said deer.

Perhaps "27 pages of posts" is the best answer to this question

And that is your right. If I may, how many scopes do you see shot and the approximate round counts of each per year, and how do you ascertain that they are working correctly?


I used to see hundreds of hunting scopes shot every year in training courses and currently see dozens, and have seen no sub $1k hunting variables that will consistently hold a zero no matter what and with adjustments that work correctly every single time. Very few over $1k will do it. For that matter very few "tactical" scopes will do it.

Angus,

I was indeed being a little sarcastic, since I'm not about to shoot at big game at 1200 yards with any scope.

But i wasn't kidding about shooting big game with irons at 200-250 yards. The technique depends on the rifle. Sometimes I've used an aperture sight that can be adjusted up and down just like a scope's elevation knob, but I've also used a fixed aperture.

I killed a bull caribou a few years ago at 350 yards using a pre-'64 Model 70 .270, with a 150-grain Hornady Spire point at about 2900 fps, and a Lyman receiver sight and the factory bead front sight. I sighted-in so a group at 100 yards landed 2" above the top of the bead, allowing a 6 o'clock hold to work out to around 250 yards.

Beyond 250 I figured where "inside" the bead the bullet would land, and aimed with the entire bead. I knew the bullet would land right around the middle of the bead at 350, and the bead would just about "cover" the bull's chest at that range, from top to bottom. The bullet landing in the bull's ribs right behind the shoulder.

With practice, it's really pretty easy to kill big game out to around 200 yards with aperture or even open sights, just by sighting-in about 2" above the front sight at 100 yards, exactly like a lot of hunters do with a scope. I've even killed small varmints out to 200 with irons, and if you know what you're doing, longer ranges are quite possible. All it takes is practice, just like shooting at longer ranges with a scope.

Your implication that I passed on the shot because of it being short range is wrong. It was because I had just drove onto the ranch from pavement and was 30 minutes into the hunt.

Reading through this entire "clusterfugg", it's not hard to tell who is shooter first, hunter second, or vice versa................


X-VERMINATOR

It's also not hard to tell who concerns themselves the most about what other people do. Some people like to shoot a lot. Maybe even more than they like to hunt. I'm not saying rc does, but so what?

I always thought liking to shoot a lot was a good attribute for a long-range hunter. It means he's more likely to hit what he's shooting at.

So then.... why don't you tell us who's who.... so we can all know.

I passed on a buck at 40 yards 10 minutes into my Blacktail season this year, it would have been my largest blacktail to date.... and it was bigger than the buck I ended up shooting. I passed.... because I love to hunt blacktail.... and I didn't want to be done. Does that mean I'm not a 'hunter'?

Hunters shoot schitt..... unless they're really fast and can wrestle like Randy Couture. The two go hand in hand.... the best Hunter in the world is hungry as hell if he can't shoot.

You stupid fhuqkers are a fhuqking riot! Always wanted to see a Blacktail,which is why I bought a variable. Laffin'!

Hurricane winds and crowding a Monsoon yesterday and I only had (4) rifles wearing 6x glass in tow. Be curious to hear what a 20" Brux barreled no-turn 1-8" 6BR Montucky,squirting 105's steered with a 6X MQ and 23+ Mils remaining on the erector,will do...via the Delusions factored by you Dumbfhuqks' Imaginations and Pretend?!? Very much enjoyed the ungainly subtension Fantasies too and "all" the target area that gets covered up at crosshair intersection. Where do you CLUELESS Fhuqks dream this schit up at? Was there a Mall Ninja convention this week?!? Holy fhuqking schit,I'm crying I'm laughing sooooooooo fhuqking hard.

Cheer up,didn't have my Hummer out to much better than the 675yd line,gunning through a Lot of Elephant Loads. She'll be more static,once the McMillan hits the doorstep this next week(weather pending).

You Drooling Dumbfhuqks really get after it! Laffin'!

Could see me stabbing a 6x MQ on an Anschutz 54 and knocking piles of Myths in the head,in one fell swoop. 'Course it's easy for me,as I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and I really don't feel compelled to apologize for same.

Then again,the 6x MQ OEM Montucky SAAMI 223 wearing 42+ Mils remaining on it's erector is another SLEEPER Crowd Pleaser. Funny how it actually works and I mean fhuqking FUNNY!

Nothing funnier than Whining Clueless Kchunts,being at the mercy of their means,abilities and comprehension,extolling how "difficult" or "impossible" the mundane is.

You chicks are a riot!

Congratulations?!?

Laffin'!

Bless your hearts.

Fhuqking WOW +P+.

Just sayin'.

Boxer, when my ribs crack I'm sending you the bill.

Vaguely recalled is the qual in boot with one of world's best pry bars known as the M14. Peeps at 300 meters, holy targets. Weren't that hard, but it was easier with the -16. Less fuss and bother? Begs the question, if one can do that with nekkid eyeballs what can a fella do with 6X nekkid?

Lemme check with Deflave...

25 yards





25 yards





Fuggen anticlimactic

.22 CB shorts, 10 yards. Not the least bit boring.





On point of the discussion, and having mentioned the red dot sight earlier, crude as the sight might be, it IS capable of sub MOA precision with several of my rifles, this demonstrated at 100 yards. Some years ago there was an article in one of the Gun Digest issues regarding the benefit of higher power glass in regards to gaining precision at long ranges. The evaluation was done with one gun and many scopes. End of the day, the benefit side of the equation starts to diminish once one passes the 4X threshold as I recall. I submit that it isn't so much an issue of magnification benefit as it is user capability and methodology. Logically the red dot w/3' dot should not have great capability of precision as it obscures a fair bit of the precise aim point, even at 100 yards, much less many hundreds of yards. It hasn't slowed me down at all in context of hunting applications. Would I use it for target competition? Nope.

6X rocks.

Speaking of anticlimactic...



If the long range thing horns you up, that's fine by me. It's the quotes like this that make you look like a jack wad.



When a guy with your pedigree stoops that low, it speaks volumes about the character of the individual. You're the Johnny "Football" of the fire, Rick. Tons of talent and zero wisdom.

Cool, my 12x should be good for 2400-4200... This has turned out swell. I Learneded so much.

More dirty girly pics. Enjoy. Clear sky, day off, range bound.

Glad to help! Thanks for posting the pics.

As we can see there is lots of different opinions.

What I can't help but notice is a real lack of 6X deer kills beyond 500yds.

Here is a short video from this years bull. 3 good hits, in the chest, at 550yds, and 2 were while the bull was moving.

14X allows the following advantages in a real dynamic hunting situation.

Positively identify which bull. The first bull was pretty nice but the bull we were waiting on is much better.

Positively ensure the background was clear of other elk as there were 40 head milling around in the timber.

Establish the right lead for the first and 3rd shots. I used 6 MOA and it is much easier to discern and be confident in the lead with more Xs. Normally I would wait for the bull to stop but I believe he was intent on chasing off the other bulls and might not have stepped back into the open.

I was back on the bull before the first shot landed and saw the jump indicating a hit. That bullet went through his ribs and would have been quickly fatal.

After the first hit it was much easier read the crosshair on his chest for the second shot and get pretty aggressive with the trigger with the increase resolution that 14X offered. Scott says in the video that I hit his horn but you can clearly see the trace run right into his onside shoulder.

The bad call is from all the crap falling from his antlers.

14X allowed me to clearly see the intervening limbs as the bull moved to the right and wait for him to clear before the final shot.

Uploaded in HD so you can see the trace.


While it is very possible such could have been done with a 6X it does point to some of the downsides to shooting far with out sufficient magnification.

Anybody pack 6X binos???

Cool video thanks. Nice bull as well.

I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings. You must fit into the category who hasn't a clue.


If it makes you feel any better, the 25 yard buck I shot was with my variable set to 6X


LOL!

Enjoyed the video John...good shooting under pressure!

Were you using your 264WM?

Mine was on 6.5, does that count?

Now that's just downright crazy talk! WAAAY over-magnified...

Hey, from that seated sticks position....

Good shooting.

Something that helps me is an oversized pillow-type bag with lightweight synthetic fill under my right arm. You can use your pack as well.

Boxer is pretty articulate and funny, I'll give him that. I wonder if I can list him as a "pre-existing condition" on my health questionnaire? Good stuff.

John, great video-any more photos of that fella'?

Chit, how many days did that take! 25 Yards - OMG!

Almost the last day of the hunt. I wonder if it would have been anticlimactic?


LOFL!

Sneaking up with 25 yards of a nice buck on public land is never anti-climatic. Just because some of us can shoot distance doesn't mean we've forsaken the other hunting skills.

Thanks.


Yup. 140gr VLDs.

I really like shooting sitting with the old Stoney Point Tripod.

Lil Fish will be pouty cause I didn't shoot of my "ruck".



A few.

Jeezus Fuqking Gawdd...the HILARITY never fhuqking stops! Haybale & Crockett "adventures" in slacks,is EPIC +P++!

REALLY enjoyed the Dissertation on how Hubble-esque X's are "required",to hit a halfa fhuqking sheet of plywood. Bitchin' "testimony" in regards to both boolit "placement" and "selection". Kudos for the Treatise on how going from binos to riflescope,let alone spotter to riflescope is a "trying" experience. Laughing!!!!

As an aside,one shoots OFF a fhuqking ruck,not "of" same. Tough to trump the humor of handheld Leisure Suit "exploits" and a fabricated yarn that the X's really sealed the deal...you AMAZINGLY stupid dumbfhuqk.

Slow day today,only puked (1) crummy,(1) camera and bruised (1) 6x scope(aesthetics) in major fashion. 'Course the sun weren't shinin',the wind were blowin',the rain was fallin' and the 6x(s) were on literal fhuqking fire. Feeshes were bitin' too,not that I could yard the hook outta your Botox'd lips,if I HAD to. Laughing!

Perhaps wax eloquent,on the "proprietary" properties of a Goat Fhuqk build and Dog Schit glass,being the Meeeeeeow in your watered down version of the Outdoors?!?

Get some!!

Sooooooooooooooooooooo fhuqking laughing!

Bless your heart.




('Dendum)

WOOT! The '12 actually fhuqking healed,though the crummy never.(grin)




Though a bent 6x Fixed Fhuqker's erector spindle,remains the most impressive feat of the day. And it were a bit better than fair day.

Laughing!

Now back to slacks,Hubbles and schit boolits in schit locations...as "Trump Cards".

Wow+P++.................



(For yet another CLUELESS Kchunt and her "ladder")

Swapping powders and zero confirmation at 100yds,with 1000+ MOA dumped in erector between shots(6X MD Fixed Fhuqker). That is up and down it's entire scale (150moa+) in each direction,(3) times)...then fire a shot. Repeat,for the volley,MPAJ and of course a fhuqking ruck(only slack wearers don't tote one).

OEM spout,setback and punched 223AI...not yet bedded and gunning fireform loads.



'Nother peek.



'Nother peek.



Though only 80.75MOA remains available on it's erector(pardon my SAAMI version harboring 42+ Mils on it's erector,from it's 225yd zero). Say sumptin' about 20x Agg's.

Laughing!!!!

Kiss,find pressure and rock on.

Hint..................


('lia) amend your INCREDIBLE Dumbfhuqkery as you MUST:

You City Slicking Window Lickers,REALLY know how to make a "stand"! WHO chews your food for you??!? Laughing!!!

Hint.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/840/i95j.jpg[/img]

REALLY!? A fhuqking "power selector" on fixed glass?!?

Can't wait for your next Delusion,spawned by "all" your "experience".

Laughing!!!!

Go for the throat!

If Silvey's were half their size and weighed a quarter of what they do and the ground piss flat with no brush,you just might could be able to tote one rom the tailgate to the ground. Don't take much to horn you Clueless Kchunts up and get your jack on,you fhuqking jack-off's.

Perspective is intellesting and I'm always happen to fuel your Imagination,so you can conjure more Pretend and extoll on how very "real" it is,to you.

Crummy be outta frame in lower left corner. Points awarded,for Oprah spending more time Outdoors than you!!

Laughing!

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/DAD_0307.jpg[/img]

A modest 3-Silvey Push...up,up and away.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/IronMan.jpg[/img]

You're doing GREAT!

Laughing!!!!

Cheer up...I've Never Seen An Egg Either

You are on FIRE Toots!..............











(dendum for Shag,as she nips at heels and sets on her kchunt)

VERY impressive,that your crossed-eyes granted you 6X delusions.

Pardon these caps still rockin'

Hint.

Perhaps continue your Vagina Monologue with the amazingly incredibly long list of things you've almost done,the wares you nearly did 'em with and the places you nearly was?!?

Here's to you doing your "best" and the oblivious humor associated with your Couchbound Chronicles.

Don't let the cat get your tongue,as the couch gets your kchunt.

Laughing!....................











('dendum for Sammo)

'08 Taco TURD,which I baby...give or fhuqking take.(grin)


[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/2R8G9469.jpg[/img]

There's a recall pending for same,but schit happens and I'm fairly adept at breaking Riggin'. I'll happily procure new and rock on. Pun be intended.

You know why they call 'em "Slackers",don'tcha'?!? Me too!

City Slicking Pavement Pounding Poosies couldn't knock the new offa used pair of boots. Though they might scratch some Tactical Slacks,hoppin' all that barbed-wire on the run,dippin' into other folks places on the sly.

Laughing!

I musta missed it,what sorta "Award" comes with being able to hit halfa fhuqking sheet of plywood? A gawdamned Drool Bib?!?

Wow..................

Never a dull moment.......

The .264?

Went out today to make a load with the 139 Scenar and RL-33. 6 shots to pick a load, 6 @ 550 yards to confirm then 3 at 100 to cast no doubt...

.

You may want to try some! It's only going 3375 fps!

Scope (POS variable Mark 4 6.5-20X LR ERT FF) was set on 20x







....for the boneheads here

Got some footage or was I spot on with my assessment of "Pretty safe bet more has been said than will be done". You are a yip yappin dipschit that does nothin but barks a bunch.



That one is a hard one to counter. You got me there but I actually like those slacks. I have killed a few critters in those pants.

I really think the Khaki color sets my my Spray Tan OFF.




350 yd head shot, don't try that with 6X.


Wait cause those were the "slacks" I had on when I packed that bull out but I had on different "slacks" when I killed him.







[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/a...WT%20Hunt/DSC00724_zpsec7d5dc2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/a...%20Mulies/DSC01241_zps8383892e.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/DSC_0039_zps7e9bcc37.jpg[/img]

You fellas that seem so concerned with my appearance are hard to keep up with. Which pair of "slacks" are the issue????

The Khakis are 511s and I really like them. Dry fast and shed blood stains. Very good pockets.

The grey "slacks" are Mountain Hardware and wear like iron. The pockets are OK but not as good as the 511s.

I am conflicted on the "slacks" but not so much on the scope magnifications.

6X gets a fellow to 400yds in hunting situations, want to shoot further then get some more Xs.

20X....







6X...

I have seen BS post a video up. He tried to scramble an egg at 500yds. All three shots missed. He is pretty good at breaking butler creek flip ups on 6x scopes. Well actually his son tried to..

You got him by the lips.. I like the blood.. Neutral colors too.. Camo sucks.

Great 25 yard shooting weak stick.

You should try to stretch it out when you grow up. LOL

Yep. Here's what it's supposed to look like...

Would not hold my breath. stick got hit in the head by a choker one to many times I'm afraid. A +P ++ brain injury has to have occurred.

What a complete dumbphuck. Great Gunsmithing. Were you plastered or what?





Scope bell in contact with the barrel. LOL







Power selector in contact with the base. LOL





Better "stick" to jacking your lumber!

Tan...

Oops, almost forgot!

Funniest CF thread in a long time.

Has the potential to be as epic as the 223AI thread.

Glad someone finally gave an honest answer to the question...and without the hyperbole that went on earlier. It would make Obama blush.



You didn't need optics of any kind (other than the camera lens)to tell that John shot the right bull. He sorta stuck out like a sore thumb...if you've done any elk hunting that is.

Sorta proud.I started a thread this long

Sako: It didn't really have to be......

Wandering thread alert! The question was answered in the first two pages.

Joe laffin'

You can't buy this kind of entertainment.

Exactly, 400-420 yards for me(on deer).
That's more a practice/wind limitation, not so much a power issue. Not a LR 'hunter'.




Stick, what make of POS pickup broke?

Must be some chitty weak-ass steel in the springs.

Now I'm really not pickin' on anyone, but just asking a question here. What is this fella doing wrong?







I'd tell him he's doing it all wrong, but don't really want a Sharps stuffed up my backside.

He's illustrating the urgent need for a fixed 6x...............

MM

Leupold 6x42 is probably my favorite hunting scope of all time. Great, great scope. However, it sucks at long range.

I find it damn funny that a couple of you took what I said as a jab (it wasn't).......!


x-verminator

Yes, it is.



Really depends on how long is "long", doesn't it?

MM

Well, ya got me then, I owe you one. 99% of the time when someone says that, it is.

I've hunted all of my life, starting at 5 years old with a Daisey and progressing as we all do to rimfire, small gauges, and center fire. I have no qualms telling anyone that the part of hunting I like the best is the shooting.

That's basically how and why I began shooting targets and competing.

No seasons to adhere to, no limits on numbers shot, and you don't have to clean anything.

It's fun to perfect a skill with a shotgun and a rifle. It makes shooting game animals seem easy and promotes clean kills.

I started with a shotgun. It went downhill from there.

LOL

How so?

Started with a Win. 63.

Rc', if you were to hunt elk in the old stomping grounds, what would your rifle/scope be?

Me? 308 fixed 6X.

There's a lot of cover there. 6 would be good unless you're in the open country low.

My scope would definitely have 6x...... and a 20x!

Well scatterguns properly fitted are, in the right hands, magical wands. Rifles and pistols are tools, although some are very good tools, even artistic masterpieces.

I will leave it at that.

Dan

PS: I lied. I have to tell a story. When I was in high school there was a camping trip involving 6 young seniors, one convertible and 4 shotguns. One of the shotguns was a 12 bore Mossberg pump with a Poly-choke. The owner was a bit of a wild hare and I'm being kind.

At the end of the camp out and most things loaded in the car (top down), the Mossberg Kid decided to shoot a leftover jumbo sized can of pork'n beans. So he balanced it on the end of the Poly-choke and held the whole mess up over his head. Several things happened when he pulled the trigger. From all appearances, the Poly-choke went into low earth orbit, never to be seen again. The can vanished also. Everyone within 50' was covered with pork'n beans as was the red convertible. It really wasn't beans at that point, it was more like a brownish gruel. Save for the color being a little off it could have been a scene from a Sam Peckinpah movie.

Everyone had the most shocked expressions save for myself, particularly the Mossberg Kid. I was rollin' around in the dirt laffin'........my........ass..........off.

I don't think you can do that with a rifle, the barrels are generally too small in diameter to balance a can of beans.

You had to be there. Shotguns are magic.

laughing



When we were kids we stuck an (unopened)can of soup in a fire.


Sat around for a few minutes staring at the can thinking how good this soup was gonna be.....

KAPHOOOOP, ash and chit and soup all over us!

WTF over?!

6X works low too.

This pic is a dead give away where it was.

Sweet pic, looks like neat country.

Yep.

I see elk in the Pork River just about every time I'm calling puppies

Shotgunning is an Art, like you say. The guy with the best Hand-Eye coordination wins

Precision Rifle is both. Ya gotta have a rifle that shoots.

That's saying nothing about the complete Art of Wind Reading.

Talk about Magic!

Where was I?

No, no, no. Shotguns are magic. Rifles and pistols are math. Either can be veiled in art. Shrapnel knows this to be true.

Rifles can also be disguised as graffiti. It is a distraction, don't be mislead.

Wagon boxes can be filled with cat piss too. I have heard this from trusted sources.

A 20X scope will not generally allow you to shoot something and have it fall dead at your feet. It is a small trick to do so with a shotgun. Or, you can drop something at the feet of someone else if so inclined. Shotguns do so without a scope or sight of any kind. They will also allow one to drop a dead duck in the adjacent blind when and if the occupants deserve it.

Let the Force be with you.

Rifles are only math with a solid rest..








.Magic happens in strange positions.



Wait! I'm on the wrong thread!

That's some cool country SLM.

+1!

Eric

Elk country.

I like. Flat tops below the peaks is...odd. The Gods were drunk that night?

...at certain times of the year.

This is more like Elk Country...

This lookslike some country east of Raton, toward Clayton.....but I'm not from there and it has been awhile......

New Mexico is awesome.

That's in the southern part of NM I'm guessing. I live in Raton and I've never seen that area....it's nice tho...

I find it funny only because, often a shooter/hunter will tend to push the range beyond what is necessary, set up for long range on purpose (not my thing!!), over scope a hunt, fugg around with their gadgets when the eye tells you its a MPBR shot, and snatch at airborne brass before it or the animal hits the ground.

The hunter/shooter, IME only cares about making meat and horns..The K.I.S.S. method dominates and the straight six just works here! Considerably further than 400yds, IMO. I've found myself doing nearly all of the above, BTW........



X-VERMINATOR

For some it's simply the thrill of the kill. For others the thrill of the hunt means more.

I prefer the latter....

I guess you can't be a hunter who enjoys shooting, and is capable of and equipped for making shots beyond 400 yards. One or the other boys.... can't be both..... thanks for clarifying that for us X...

Real men only need a 2X.

Damn, got me again, I've never seen that. What range is "beyond what is necessary?"

It's actually northern NM. Tres Piedras area

Rick where in northern NM is Tres Piedras?

Hittin' the nail on the head yet again. You're in the zone

...and it's the slow time of year for you...

NW of Taos

OK thanks.

I swear it looks a bit like country I had been in out near Clayton,with those prominent hills in the background near that lower country...IIRC it was sort of south and west of Johnson Mesa....I think.

Not important....anyway there were elk in that low country there as well.

Edited to add: Sorry that would be southEAST of Johnson Mesa.

Nice

LOL


This isn't 6x territory....

Amazing colors in that pic!

That's way beyond what's necessary......

It is if you bother to stalk...

6x country..... laughin'....

Nice pics men.... Just reminds me Texass sucks ass

But I did make two consecutive first round hits on steel (712 and 640) this AM with Dogs old lowly 243 and 105s... WHILE BEING ON 6X.... Unfuggin believable....

stunt shooter...

This is Tres Piedres area? Never seen that part before

SLM is a good lookin' sumbitch!




Clark

VERY much enjoying how you Clueless Kchunts are obliviously bolstering your inherent Dumbfhuqktitude in non-lineal fashion,by the "dreaded" addition of sunshine and piss flat pastures. Fhuqking AWESOME "testimony". Laffin'!

Perhaps one or more of you Drooling Dumdfhuqks will weigh in on where it becomes beyond YOUR "abilities",to interface POA/POI intersections upon sumptin' static in it's relative sizing,like say a milk jug...which just happens to ship in vital-esque sized containers. Be sure to quantify the X-titude of these thresholds and extrapolate in kind,how the 6x is too "tricky" for you to hit with. Laffin'!

You can add as many clouds as needed,or do likewise with the sun,in those very "trying" conditions pictured. That if only to help pre-fabricate your requisite Excuses and salve your Imagination and Pretend. Perhaps you can also add contour to the equation and ring the bell on The Drooling Dumbfhuqk Trifecta,by literal default?!? Laffin'!

Weather is a touch sporty here and it was a near 8Mil wind nudge at the 800yd line yesterday,squirting 75A-Max out of an OEM Rain Rifle(which are vastly superior to Sun Rifles). Temps was trite too.

Hint. Laffin'!



You "lucky" fhuqkers and your piss flat dry dirt...really get after it and got it going on. What a fortunate "Test Bed" for shaking out Riggin' and seeing what do what...as few things is tougher on a rifle,than sun and being level. Laffin'!

I'll go easy on colors,if only to keep it "fair".

Re-laffin'!





MPAJ 6x Horse at 1K++...fireforming.

Hint.



Never been tough to cypher,who shoots and who don't and you Drooling Don'ters are on fhuqking fire,with your Dumbfhuqkery!!!

Keep the ball rollin' bitches,with your "best".

Oh sooooooooooooo fhuqking WOW and Bless your hearts.

Yep,BEST thread Evah!

Laffin'!

My SOLE hope being...you Clueless Kchunts don't run outta Imagination or Pretend!!!

I'm crying I'm laughing sooooooooooooooooooooooooo fhuqking hard. PM me an addy and I'll mail you $20,for the accidental laughs you create,by doing your best and you can buy yourself some bottled water and food coloring,so you can "Custom Handload" for your SuperSoaker.

LAFFIN'!




P.S. and by the way...I can mail you empty jugs,if procuring same is beyond your fiscal means.


Re-laffin'!






Ooooops...also perhaps cite which power of binoculars,you watch TV with.


I'm cryin' here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Jeezus Fhuqk...I'm laffin' so hard,I cain't even see the gawdamnned fhuqking keyboard!

Now if only in the interest of dry pastures and sunshine,via your VERY "trying" static affairs,I might could add 1000 words in regards to gunning movers,while on a mover...which of course is a quadruple conundrum.

When the Natives literally get restless.

6x MQ.

Hint.

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/BCGxLR.jpg[/img]


GOOD talk.


Laffin'!


As per always...I'm looking forward to the deafening silence and the running dodge away from ALL things germane.

That ain't a dialect.

Hint.

Laffin'!



('dendum...as poosyshooter was more than a whole bunch afeared to muse ANYTHING the fhuqking rifle)

Hoppin' up a Dastardly LR 6X Knocker,to make room for my Princess Paws...in order to keep 'er fed.

Was gonna strip the bitch and gun a curiosity in POA/POI movement,after CAREFUL re-"torquing" of all fasteners,but the gawdammned Red LockTIGHT precluded such things,so I happily went Plan "B" and said "fhuqk it".

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/633/KrOaTu.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/RBn5eW.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/912/3tzO5I.jpg[/img]


Barrel contour is MUCH greater than it looks,as is it's length.

Laffin'!

You poor,poor...STUPID Fhuqk.

Just how loud is your Imagination,when you "shoot" it?!?

My hunting grounds for my 6x

If Pat could get Stick, Formidilosus, Burns, and RCam to show at Icebreaker we could have a pay per view.

PS.... thanks to the guys I got to hunt with this year. I saw some cool new country, got my azz kicked, and have some great pictures.

Not to tough to identify where this is....

Pay per view, NO. That would be a must see live event.

Nice country SLM....

NM has it's problems but we do have a lot of neat country to roam in

More country suited for 6X.

Awesome pic.

thanks, but I'm still pissed I didn't get the water level in the pic. I'll have to fix that one of these days.

Wyoming is in the background. It was a brutal stalk in the left seat of a Chevy Impala. Too close for 6X, about right for the flinter?

Stalking is a double edged blade.



Bluritude is gratis.

I'm happy when people can tell what the pic is.

Bluritude is an art.

I've got it mastered pretty good.

Well I can add absolutely nothing off value to this thread, but I'll happily stir the pot if it keeps you guys throwing up pics. Hot damn there's some nice chit posted up here, makin me want to burn my house down.

The dogs where I hunt are starting to recognize The White Truck of Death

Went out to put Dogshooter's method to the test; stay on a stand long enough to have a birthday and glass 'em up.

Didn't see or call in anything in the first spot so I walked back to TWTOD and moved. Drove to the next good area and since my bino's weren't 6X, I decided to glass the next area from the truck from WAAAY down in the bottom. Glassed for a while and Caught sight of a dog moving. Watched him for a while. He'd look my way then move fast. He had me pegged. He had a couple of buddies with him. Thought I'd laser him and try to shoot him if he'd stop. Couldn't get a reading. It was because he was at least 1600 yards away!

Perfect 6X range for jordan.

Smart fuggers!

How far would you feel comfortable shooting at a deer with a 6x scope?