What’s the general consensus on using an older, 1980-early 90’s Rem action for a S/A build?

I have done three. A 204 Ruger, a 223AI, and a 20 Practical.

I had all three receivers squared, and slicked, to remove any binding spots. One bolt, I also had fluted just for aesthetics.

Aside from the action, everything else is higher end parts.

All rifles have excellent functionality and solid accuracy.

What’s a guy missing out on by not going with an expensive receiver?

🦫

I have had several, still have two...and I will never do it again. With the cost of custom actions where they are, it just doesn't make sense in any way, shape, or form.

My comprehension is slow today...Sorry


Do you mean, it’s better to go full custom receiver?

🦫

How much you paying for your Remington’s?

Last couple I have $400 in them or so for a complete 700..and when you can buy a Zermatt Origin for $800 with all the benefits you get...the cost savings quickly pales.

I like my 700s, but by the time you throw enough cash at them to get them close to where a basic Zermatt is, you've spent more money.

Copy....Thanks!

I had a couple 700 actions on hand, bought one 80’s era nib for $350

I see what you mean...$400 is short money, if the improvements are vast over a 700.

🦫

I see no reason to "true" one, so that extra $400 for a "custom" is lost on me......

It somewhat comes down to what your needs are as well. Do you need a side bolt release, trigger hanger, etc... most 700 actions will need some work and if found at a reasonable cost, can make sense on the right build.

I still have 2 Rem 700s that are really nice and worked over. But I do think something like the new Mack Bros SS action for $575 is going to be hard to beat for the money.

I kinda just turned new leaf over myself. I’m a M70 guy, can’t help it and can’t make excuses but by the time you get a receiver from a used gun for 500-750 bucks, pay a good Smith to do all of the tricks to them to make them a bit lighter, smoother and straight you’re into custom action land. I don’t sell much so that’s an afterthought but a Defiance with CRF, 3 Pos safety and a TriggerTech is about in the ballpark of my last 70 after all of the machining. Especially when you get into lengthening them to take a 3.8” Mag box.

Remingtons are a bit less money to start but I’d think after all of the other stuff is done you’re in the custom action realm. Just my thoughts and the good customs just seem perfect from the get go.

Functionally I have no idea if the customs are better though. Plain ol 700’s and 70’s have been doing pretty good for a couple seasons

Obviously !

All your screw together rigs are *Piles* 😜

Whatcha got for sale these days my brother in S/A

🦫

Agreed alff. My smith does it for a fraction of that. Last action I bought, nib from buds, ss la mag, got for $250 off a guy at work. All my others were Walmart specials, had $200-$250 in em after I boned em out.

I’m not afraid of using a M70 for a build. Especially for a dangerous game rifle, like 375 H&H

I’m still intrigued by doing a build off a Tikka action.

🦫

I have a 7-08, a 338-06 Ackley, and the 6 PRC I've thought of peddling, but I can't bring myself to do it.

Man, I hate Tikkas. I say that in jest cause those stupid things have been so easy to load for, great triggers and pretty nice once they’re in a stock that fits me but my brain will always grab one of my 70’s first for hunting. No common sense to it but that’s what I like but the Tikkas I’ve had have been ridiculously good across the board. Smooth as silk too.

I think for certain cartridges they make a whole lot of sense to build from.

I don't think there is a single thing wrong with a 700 action, and I do agree that truing them is typically not needed. That being said, the more 700s I've built, the more things I find I want to change about them, to the point a custom just makes more sense....for me.

The Mack Bros action is very intriguing, but I've yet to see one in the flesh. I think the CVA Cascade could could a very interesting action to build off of, but I am unsure of bottom metal compatibility.

I did a sweet build in 6.5 PRC off a Mack Bros TI action. No complaints whatsoever. It’s a favorite, but, admittedly it’s paired with a Proof tube and dbm metal, putting it in the mid 7lb weight class.

🦫

Laffin...I understand.

It’s also difficult to trash the OEM tube on a Tikka when it’s a minute of a fly’s whickers.

😬🦫

I like the 7-08 chambering.

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Yeah, so I’ve been selling em! Just taking the temptation right out of it.

just not cost effective anymore with all the customs made today.

I have R700 customs in 7Rem mag, 220 swift, 22PPC, 223, 2-204R, 2-20 VT, 17Rem, and 17 FB. And two more 223s in the making. Some had the actions trued, most did not. They’re all very accurate shooters. In all cases, I had a quality gunsmith take a rifle apart, and build the above. Would have been better off with custom Rem 700 clones? I don’t know, but I’m sure pleased with the ones I have.

once you cycle a borden or defiance maybe others the cost factor goes away a little bit more compared to a remington

It's $575 for a Mack Bros Evo Stainless action.

20 moa rail
Indexed recoil lug
Nitrided bolt
Threaded on and pinned bolt handle that's threaded for knobs
External bolt stop

Probably don't have to bush the firing pin either.

Not a hard sell really.

I’m getting ready to start on a 22CM soon. I was looking for a Tikka action but the price on the Mack is intriguing.

I'm w/ aalf...I have a closet full of Remingtons that have always shot very well. If you're a hunter it's wasted money. powdr

Yep, and out of the 100’s of 700’s owned, and pards, I’ve never heard/seen a “bushed” firing pin, other than here, but there’s lotsa [bleep] wrote here that’s yet to be seen.. I do hear it makes a rifle more accurate though. 😂😂

Bushing the firing pin is not an unusual or odd thing...Sure makes a difference when running small rifle primers in a .473 cartridge.

Like I said, I’ve been around and literally owned hundreds of 700’s, and have never heard or seen anyone bush a bolt. Maybe cause I run with killers and skinny Jean flatbill crowd?? Either way, never seen or heard of it other than online.

Out of the hundreds of 700's you've been around have you never seen one that would crater primers with loads known not to be hot?

Nope, never.. not 1

But I’ve also never seen a bolt handle fall off one either.

As much as I enjoy my many 700's I have a couple that crater more than I'd like, and I have had to have one handle put back on.

Before anybody asks, no, the handle was not and had never been whacked or pried on.

The custom makers know the price point required to make any reasonable guy turn his nose up to Remington.
It’s not a difficult decision for a new build.

Never had a bolt handle fall off but I've had 2 223s that cratered primers pretty bad, even popped a couple in one rifle.

The loads were in no way hot

Never been a fan of Remingtons bolt knobs they look like those disgusting candies in 90 year old ladies Christmas candy dishes.

Since nothing is considered equal...If a guy has a Remington action *trued* for the same reason a custom receiver is trued, and the bolt firing pin is bushed and lugs lapped.

Have we arrived at equal to a custom action?

No taking into consideration the plethora of specific features offered by individual actions makers.

🦫

Most of my "builds" or as some would say parts rifles are 700's. I have no issues with any, except one 700 I bought on-line that had the trigger way adjusted wrong and had the barreled action glued into the stock.
I like the bolt handle as it is, to me it is what a bolt handle should look like.

I agree wholeheartedly...


I'm sure the custom actions are great, but I personally think most of them look like garbage. Of all the bolt handles and shrouds....I like 700s the best.

Depends on your perspective......

There isn't a gun I have that's not expendable. In fact, more often then not, it's going down the road for something else shinier.

If you already own the action, and it's your "forever" build, and or it holds some personal value, in the long run, the cost of truing is a moot point. If you're gonna flip it, it'll be money down the drain. If you build on a custom and flip it, you'll lose too. I just proved that point trying to peddle a custom on a Bat action. I decided to keep it & flip a different 700, than to lose my ass on the full custom.

I feel I'm capable enough on load work to get most of the goodie out of a stock action build, that a trued action would be hard to improve on enough to drop the coin on.

Whatever blows your skirt up, as there's no wrong answer......

Jud,
I am not a Remington guy.... I am a Savage guy...
I did decide to build a 223AI on a 700, ordered a new action from Buds. Got the thing up and running and it cratered and pierced primers with standard 223 loads. The best I can do is 2700 fps with an 80 gr. bullet, so now I need to send the bolt off to get bushed.
Kicking myself for not sticking with Savage.

Ugly chicks need love to I guess.
I’m really interested in the Mack bros evo they look pretty cool in the picture I have seen. Hope some day I can get one.
Those Mauserfields kinda have my eye as well. I think it would be a pretty great start for. 9.3 nosler.

Then screw a carbon fiber barrel on em, they look real dumb.

Those do look interesting, I (like most) wish they were good to go with barrel nuts.

I forgot they have an M16 extractor too.

Maybe even a few more features that Jud never heard of until he got on the 24hcf.

Naw, I've heard of that feature, from the flatbill , Sitka gear crew... Never seen or heard of"besides online" of a Remington extractor breaking either... That's one thing about the www, some hardcore folks to be found.

Folks who actually shoot,notice things that exist,while those who "shoot" their Imaginations and Pretend do not. Mainly because they can not. Hint.(grin)

I've only had a coupla dozen 700 bolts bushed,mainly because I prefer LRP's when an option. Hint.

Typical .378" S/A OEM Big Green scenario. Tolerance woes,as opposed to "pressure" and positive headspace a given. Note outer primer radius. Hint.



Same Lot of ammo,in same rifle,after Greg's work. Hint.(grin)




Re-purposed O/F R/P Bulk,in formed cases. Though I haven't shot said rifle in but a coupla days.(grin)





Now as an over the counter NIB OEM 700 receiver goes,I'm at ease in procuring same and going James spout for the win,less fanfare...assuming LRP.

Hint.....................

If one wants custom features that can't be got on
modified 700s well you got to pay for them in a
clone..but if primary objective is to save money
by compromizing on what features and specs you
desire in a custom then stick with a factory unit...
btw: one can also save dollars by staying away
from cut rifle barrels and McM stocks and silly
cosmetic schitt like cerakote...

I prefer the older ones and I have a few.....
Since 86 I have had to replace one extractor.. 280AI..after 10 years of hard use I had a case fail to extract.. happened in the run up to deer season had it replaced and used it for about 7 years after without issue.
Never needed to bush any firing pinholes. This with several flavors of SRP cases . Never felt the need.
I have 700s with originally equipment bolts. And several with PTG bolts depends on the application..
Only bolt handle I ever had fall off was on a PTG bolt..I developed a taste for teardrop bolt handles... The PTG one did not survive the machining process... So I did not get burned in the field. . I have several 700 bolts that have been tig welded. Again depends on application.And how I'm holding my mouth that day..
Can't actually say for sure how many I have right now but I have the treatment done on every single one. With out fail. I'm not going to go to the trouble and expensive of a rebarrel job and not KNOW that the receiver isn't all it should be. I've had two that that were let's say messed up.
I consider it money well spent..

Dave

What is the Mack Bros action for $575? I don't see that on their website.
Thanks,
kstockfo

https://macbros.com/product/evo-ss-action-short/

Wow! That is significantly cheaper than anything else that I've seen, which makes me wonder about their quality... I've not heard this company spoken of much either, are there other owners that recommend them? My primary purpose is whitetails and paper-punching. I know that I don't REQUIRE top notch quality (for whitetails under 300 yards), but for pride of ownership I'd like to take a step up in quality from factory.
Thanks for all opinions,
kstockfo

I don't have first-hand experience with them, but one or two guys here have them and speak well of them. The company is a state-of-the-art CNC and EDM manufacturing company with in-house nitriding ability.

I can’t speak to the Mac brothers, but the defiance an ti checks a lot of boxes - and the quality is outstanding.

Mac Bros has been making actions for GAP Rifles for years.

Those cool threaded bolts, side bolt releases and m 16 extractors sure are handy!!! 🤭😂

Oooops, and fluted bolts!!! Haha

I bet Beave was more than $575 into the action he had squared, bolt fluted and slicked.

Ya I bet he does. That bolt fluting, m 16 extractor, side bolt release and bushed bolt really helps in the killing department. Add turrets, shooting just a smidge, and some tape, a guy will rule the world!! If he ever "hunts".... 😂😂

nothing wrong with a 700..still have 2 that were reworked and shoot as well as my customs.but to say a defiance rebel and others dont have the aesthetics and nice look of a remington i feel is off base.maybe cause of the price point.

judman.different strokes for different folks.as stated nothing wrong with remingtons.but customs offer more when all considered.40 years ago i shot factory remingtons and winchester model 70 pre 64.rifles..i know a older retired riflesmith named richard franklin.he was in virginia.he tested rem actions with the lugs machined many thousands off on one side from the other...lug engaged on one side only.other side off as much as 16teenth of a inch.no contact.you see they shot 1.5" groups at a 100 yds.long story short barrels are more important for accuracy than a action..that being said if you have a rem blueprinted and trued correctly they will shoot with any custom..its all about what people want or need..godspeed and great hunting to all the true americans on our forums. .

Oh come on Jud, I bet Beaver hunts as much as he wants.

He may, he may not. Guess what I’m gettin at is I can rem action, and a snout for the cost of the mcbros cheapy, for the $800-$1000 customs I can have it fitted chambered ready to rock with $$$ left over by one of, if not the best smith in Washington.

Slobob, you’re right it is about choices, reminds be of folks that go out buy a new truck, drive it over to le schwabs and get it lifted with new 38’s and wheels, then order stickers for the back window to let everyone know they “hunt”... never not funny.. 😂😂

Finding the “cheap” Remingtons isn’t super easy these days either.

Agreed on the truck, tires and stickers comment. Seems like the more stickers on the truck the less they like to walk too far from them

Almost all of the R700 I have built on only needed the receiver face trued and the lugs lapped. I have only one that got the full treatment from PT&G it is very smooth with an oversized bolt. I have only had one extraction issue with a 700, the extractor shaved metal off the rim and then wouldn't feed. Had to polish off the sharp edges and then no issues. The bolt stop seems like a weak point. I screwed one up by some how over stressing the small spring when reassembling it. The bolt would occasionally just drop out of the action. Did this one time while getting ready for a shot at a deer and the bolt fell into sugar sand. I wiped it off and shot the deer but what sand that remained screwed up a Jewel trigger. In a perfect world the recoil lug would be integral with the action or at least pinned.

Lets see receiver face trued, bolt lugs lapped, replace bolt stop, bush firing pin, replace trigger, replace bottom metal, true and pin recoil lug or replace, nitride action and bolt or bolt head. Ok how much did I save going with the R700? This without replacing or sleeving the bolt or adding Borden bumps. Many customs come with a rail or scope mounts so another $60-100 in favor of the custom. Are we there yet (cost wise)?

Foo Sure. The 223 AI wasn’t full build expensive. But, it was a smidge over a couple grand having the side bolt release added, along with a cut barrel, bottom metal, AG Handle w/custom paint, etc.

The 204 Rug and 20 Practical were all reasonable.

223AI




20 Prac



204 Rug




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Try er out beave, have your smith spin it up with a good snout, without any work done to the receiver, betcha won’t be disappointed

They’ll get em rollin again here soon Scotty. Love the Walmart specials for builds. 😛

On these custom actions, I assume no, bottom metal, trigger, mag box, spring and follower, and recoil lug??

The missing, and operative word here is "Yet".

I seen to recall a conversation where the term 'forever gun' came up. Any of the above 'Forever Guns'?

I haven't seen a production 700 rifle in the past 6-8 years that's had any primary camming, so be aware of that when you're looking for a donor. When evaluating one for a possible donor, it's the first area I check.

And the 'bare' actions that were out there for $350-$400 were even worse and in more ways than the extraction issue. Being tweaked along the long axis as much as .025-.030 is not uncommon for these. A pal picked one up and sent it to Gre' Tan (Greg Tannel) for his usual work. Greg, who I really respect, advised him that the action was so far off in every area that the machine work alone to get it straightened out would be more than a new lower-end clone unit.

Believe me, some of the 'custom' clones aren't too shiny once accurate measuring starts.

Like everything, do your homework.

Good shootin'. -Al

None of mine are forever guns, obviously, as I just sold the 7-08....

If I didn't know better I would say Jud is calling every custom action user a flat brim hat, jacked up truck with stickers wannabe's ....... hmmm glad I build off Mausers and Savages...

I have been eyeballing those Bighorn actions though, they are kinda like RemSavages? would building a custom on that put me in the poser category?
I suspect if I went with a carbon fiber barrel in 6.5 Creed my manhood would be in question....

Send it...... lol

🤭😂

Factory 700 works fine. 90% of accuracy comes from a properly chambered barrel.

3 Bs

Barrel
Bullet
Bedding

Then fundamentals of Marksmanship and wind reading.

nice looking rifles!

Oh you’ve really done it now brother!! 😂😂

Here to help brother Jud!!!

You clowns obviously don't understand the Savage floating bolt head...... uber accuracy.....








just kidding

What I do understand is a factory 700 G prefix action and a PVA or CBI prefit barrel will shoot better than most people's skill level.
Only way I would go custom if I were a serious competition shooter. For hunting, recreational shooting, banging steel etc. a 700 is perfect.

I have two customs built on Tikka actions. Side bolt release, adjustable trigger, sako extractor, modular bolt handle... and both actions were straight and required no "truing"

What’s with the side bolt release?? I mean fuuck, it’s something you you gotta push when/if you clean. Same amount of effort regardless... extractor don’t mean shiit, 805 tuned trigger better than any tikka I’ve ever felt period, and you get a bolt with a shiit plastic shroud... oh and don’t forget the stellar pile o shiit rings, stock and great magazines they come with... tikkas are a real bargain!!! Haha

805 tuned trigger..... what I run also. He does great work. Mine are all under 2lbs.

So you really gotta struggle to get the bolt out I take it??? Haha god damn I’ve heard it all!! 😂😂

Those fuuckin extractors break all the time too!! I carry a pocket full of em!! 😂😂

Another rifle I had with a 700 action. I have spoke with Mike at length several times about his builds, the 700 action, etc. He has said numerous time the bolt just pushes the bullet into the barrel chamber. The magic is in the barrel and bedding. he also torques the barrels on at a very high foot pounds.

And yes, TacOps are as good as advertised.

Can't argue with this.... would add trigger to the equation though

Agreed on the trigger. A good trigger is a plus.

Tikka triggers are rather skookum.

So are 805’s, but betta.... for a small fee.

Maybe the “elite Facebook crew that can’t afford to hunt” will chime in... 😂😂😂

Sho nuff

True dat

Dawg.....

I bought a tikka, waaaay before tikkas were cool, 1st gen, 338 win mag. Ran a “4-12leupold”, factory rings blah blah blah. Shot better than most full blown customs here, coyotes, bobcats, every species of deer, both species of elk... just flat ghosted shiit, couldn’t get past the cheap feelin garbage... but it did have side bolt release, and m16 extractor... 😂😂😂

That and it shot at least 100fps slower than any other 338 with same load 🖕🏿😘

Elements of a Good Shooting Position:
a) BONE SUPPORT
1. The weight of the weapon should be supported by bone rather
than muscle because muscle fatigues whereas bones do not.
2. The shooter must establish a strong foundation for his rifle by
utilizing bone support. This will enable the shooter to relax as
much as possible while minimizing the movement of 
the weapon due to muscle tension.
b) MUSCULAR RELAXATION
1. Muscular relaxation helps the shooter hold steady and increase
the accuracy of his aim. Muscular relaxation allows the shooter to
use maximum bone support which creates a 
minimum arc of movement and consistency in resistance to recoil.
2. There is no way the shooter can have muscular relaxation
without bone support. During the shooting process, the muscles
of the body should be relaxed as much as possible. 
Muscles that are tense will cause excessive movement of the rifle,
thereby disturbing the aim. When proper bone support and
muscular relaxation are not applied, the rifle will 
never settle into an aiming point, thereby making it impossible for
the shooter to apply trigger control to deliver a well-aimed shot.
3. Only through PRACTICE and achieving a natural point of aim
will the shooter be able to apply proper muscular relaxation.
c) NATURAL POINT OF AIM

1. The point at which the rifle naturally rests in relation to the
target when the shooter is completely relaxed. 
2. Once the shooter is in position and aimed in on target, the
method for checking NPA is for the shooter to close his eyes, take
a couple of breaths, and relax as much as possible. 
Upon opening his eyes, the scopes crosshairs should be
positioned at the shooters desired aiming point.
3. Since the rifle now becomes an extension of the shooters body,
it is necessary to adjust the position until the rifle rest naturally at
the preferred aiming point on the target.
4. Once the natural point of aim has been determined, the shooter
must hold his position in relation to the target to maintain his
natural point of aim. In all shooting positions the NPA 
can be checked and readjusted periodically.
FACTORS COMMON TO ALL SHOOTING POSITIONS
These factors are common to supported and unsupported
shooting positions. They involve building a SOLID foundation from
which the rifle can be fired. Once the shooter is satisfied with the
stability of a position, it should not change except for minor
variations to accommodate different typed of supports.
a) PLACEMENT OF THE NON-FIRING HAND AND ELBOW.
The exact placement of the non-shooting hand and elbow will
depend on the height of the support used. For a very low prone
position, the non-shooting hand will grasp the rear sling swivel
(rear bag) in a fist or it might lie flat on the deck. The elbow rest
comfortably without strain.

b) RIFLE BUTT IN THE POCKET OF THE SHOULDER.
The shooter places the rifle butt firmly into the pocket of his
shoulder. The proper placement of the butt helps steady the rifle,
prevents CANTING, prevents the rifle butt from slipping in the
shoulder during recoil, and lessens the effect of the recoil.
c) GRIP OF THE SHOOTING HAND.
The shooting hand grips the stock firmly, but not rigidly. A firm
handshake hold. The thumb extends over the small of the stock to
enable the shooter to get a good grip. A proper grip permits the
trigger to be pressed straight back to the rear without disturbing
the aiming process.
d) REAR ELBOW.
The placement of the rear elbow gives balance to the shooters
position. Correctly positioned, the elbow helps form the shoulder
pocket. The exact location of the elbow varies with each position.
e) STOCK WELD.
The stock weld is the point of firm contact between the shooter’s
cheek and the stock. The firm contact between the head and the
rifle enables the head and rifle to recoil as one unit, facilitating
rapid recovery between rounds. The stock weld also enables the
eye to be positioned the same distance behind the eyepiece (eye
relief) of the scope each time the rifle is fired. This guarantees the
same field of view with each sight picture, further assisting in
accurate aiming. 
SUPPORTED POSITION FUNDAMENTALS.
a) Avoid touching any part of the support to the barrel. This will

interrupt the barrels natural vibrations, and can throw the round
off.
b) Cushion the rifle on the support. This will keep the weapon
from sliding around and steady the position. 
c) Do not allow the side of the rifle to rest against the support. The
rifle will recoil away from the support and can throw the round off.
SCOPE SIGHTING TECHNIQUES
a) Scope shadow.
During aiming, the shooter must ensure that there are no
shadows in his field of view. He should see a clear black circle
inside the scope. If the eye is to close, too far away, or off to 
one side or the other, the shadows will appear. This will throw off
shots fired. If a crescent shaped shadow is present, the eye is off
center in relation to the scope. The shadow will 
have the effect of pushing the shot fired in the direction opposite
of the shadow. The shooter must adjust his position until the
shadow disappears.
b) Eye Relief.
Eye relief is defined as the distance the shooters eye must be
positioned from the eyepiece lens for the scope to function
properly. If proper eye relief is not maintained, recoil may 
cause the shooter to receive a blow to the head (scope bite,
magnum eyebrow, etc.). Eye relief must be consistent for every
shot.
c) Sight Picture.
1. Sight picture is the correct placement of the crosshairs on the

target for the desired impact. For a correct sight picture, the point
of intersection of the crosshairs is placed in the 
center of the target mass resulting in a quartered target.
2. THE SHOOTERS ATTENTION SHOULD BE ON THIS
INTERSECTION OF THE CROSSHAIRS AND NOT THE
TARGET. The shooter should focus on the crosshairs without
straining his eyes. 
Intense concentration will eventually cause the image to blur. If
the shooters is having trouble focusing on or seeing the
crosshairs, his scope may need to be refocused.
TRIGGER CONTROL
The ability to move the trigger straight to the rear allowing the
hammer to fall without disturbing the sights. The shooter should
fire the shot exactly when the rifle settles to his aiming point, but it
should be a subconscious effort not to disturb the crosshairs. This
way, if the shooter can move the trigger without thinking about it
(subconsciously), he can 
concentrate on the crosshairs and getting his round on target.
2 TYPES OF TRIGGER CONTROL
a) Uninterrupted. 
This is the preferred method. Once pressure is applied, firing of
the shot is completed. The shooter is committed to an unchanging
rate of pressure, no speeding up, slowing down or 
stopping.
b) Interrupted.
This method of control is used in when the rifle will not settle into

position, forcing the shooter to fire the shot when the target
comes into his aiming point. Also called "timing you 
shot". The shooter takes up initial pressure and begins normal
trigger control. He then holds his position until he focuses on his
crosshairs. He then moves the trigger until the shot 
breaks. The shooter should not force his rifle by steering it into his
aiming point. He should let the rifle move naturally toward and
away from the target. If the rifle is moving 
towards the target, the shooter continuously applies trigger
pressure. If the rifle is moving away from the target, the shooter
holds his position until the rifle starts drifting back 
toward his aiming point. He then applies pressure to the trigger. If
the shot breaks as the crosshairs are moving towards his aiming
point, the shot will normally be inside his call.
FINGER PLACEMENT ON THE TRIGGER.
Finger placement on the trigger is correct when it allows the
trigger to be pressed straight to the rear without disturbing the
crosshairs. This will vary greatly from shooter to shooter and
depends a great deal on the size of the shooters hand and his
grip.
Errors in Trigger Control
a) Flinching. The shooters reaction to the anticipation of recoil of
the exploding round.
b) Bucking. An attempt by the shooter to take up the recoil just
before the rifle fires, by tensing up his shoulder muscles and
moving his shoulder forward.
c. Jerking. An attempt by the shooter to make the rifle fire at a
certain time by rapidly applying pressure on the trigger and
disturbing the alignment of the rifle.

FOLLOW-THROUGH
The continuous application of the fundamentals of marksmanship
after the shot has been fired. The shooter should not shift his
position, move his head, or let the muzzle of the rifle drop until a
few seconds after the rifle has been fired. Follow-through ensures
that there is no undo movement of the rifle until after the shot has
been fired. This will also enable the shooter to observe the strive
of the round in relation to his aiming point, enabling him, if
necessary, to adjust his aiming point and fire a second round.
BREATH CONTROL
a) Natural Respiratory Pause.
The point where the shooter is completely relaxed in his
respiratory cycle. The point where the shooter takes a breath and
exhales. This is a shooters NRP. Normally last just seconds
during normal breathing but can be extended more for some
shooters. This is the point at which you want to fire your shot. This
pause should last as long as the shooter feels comfortable with it.
It depends on the physical condition and the lung capacity of the
individual. Obviously, holding your breath longer that what is
comfortable will cause a lack of oxygen that can deteriorate vision
and affect the shooters ability to focus on the sights.
Techniques for Natural Respiratory Pause.
a) Normal Breathing
The shooter breathes normally, and as he approaches taking the
shot, he pauses, gets his point of aim, applies trigger pressure,
and takes his shot. It is easier to obtain a good sight picture when
breathing stops because the movement in the shooter’s chest,

abdomen, and shoulder stops. This entire shot process takes
place during the shooters Natural Respiratory Pause.
b) Decreased Breathing.
As the shooter approaches his shot, he applies his initial trigger
pressure and decreases his breathing. He starts getting his
aiming point as his breathing decreases to a pause. He ca
achieve his proper aiming point during shallow breathing because
he is not moving as much. He then pauses, obtains a good sight
picture, and applies continual pressure to the trigger until the shot
breaks.
c) Cardiopulmonary Pause.
As the heart beat is transmitted through the body, it causes a
corresponding movement to his rifle. This is particularly apparent
in an unsupported shooting position and affects shooting at long
ranges. The heart beat is noticeable by the vertical movement of
the crosshairs in the scope. To shoot effectively, the shooter
should strive to fire the rifle so the trigger breaks at the lull of the
heart beat for each shot.

The academic debate between near wind and far wind is trumped
by the unique realities of wind pattern to each specific range. The
best policy for shooting in the wind is flexibility and critical
assessment of the features unique to each range.
Wind does not blow on the side of the bullet to cause deflection.
Instead, the bullet weather vanes into the oncoming airflow. A
crosswind will make the bullet fly at a small angle to the line of
sight. The aerodynamic drag applied to the bullet acts directly
back along the bullet axis, which effectively pulls it away from the
line of sight.
Wind gradient is when the wind velocity increases with increased
height above the ground. It can be difficult to judge the wind
speed high above the ground when shooting over valleys where
there are no indicators, but you can usually count on higher
velocity winds in such cases.
Cross wind weighting factors can be used to calculate the effects
of multiple winds. The most wind sensitive portion of a bullet’s
trajectory is not always the first segment. If the bullet will go
transonic during its flight, that will dictate where the bullet is most
sensitive.
Aerodynamic jump is a mechanism by which a bullet can have a
vertical deflection when fired into a purely horizontal crosswind
speed. This deflection is a constant angular deflection, roughly
equal to .03 to .04 moa per mph of crosswind speed, and it
depends on the gyroscopic stability of the bullet at the muzzle.
The deflection is down for a left – right crosswind, and up for a
right to left crosswind. These directions are reversed for a left
twist barrel.

Point forward flight means that the nose of the bullet is always
pointed straight into the oncoming air flow like a weather vane.
Now the axis of the bullet is no longer aligned with the line of
sight. Arrows are stabilized with fetching, and bullets are
stabilized with spin, the both point their nose into the oncoming air
flow when they are stable in flight.
For a given range and atmospheric condition, lag time and wind
deflection depend on muzzle velocity and BC.

In general, a headwind will cause a bullet to slowdown faster and
strike the target lower and vice versa for a tail wind.

Parallax is an error caused by your scope's focus not being
adjusted to match the target distance.
You must adjust the parallax/focus before you can expect precise
bullet placement.
Lower cost scopes may not have parallax adjustments.
These are usually set for 100yds.
Some scopes will have actual range markings on the focus knob,
but most will make you figure it out by eye.
To adjust the parallax, start by focusing the image as you look
through the scope.
Then get the rifle on a solid rest with the reticle on-target.
Now move your eye up and down or left and right WITHOUT
disturbing the rifle's aim.
If you see the reticle moving around on-target, that is a parallax
error you are seeing.
Continue to make small adjustments to the focus until the reticle
does not move on target.
Now you are ready to make a precise shot.
Some scopes may go slightly out of focus when the parallax is set
properly.
This is not desirable, but it's more important to have the reticle
parallax-free than perfect focus.
Go with perfect parallax over focus every time.
On my Nightforces, I usually find that if I find perfect focus, I need
to roll the top of the knob about 1/16" forward to find perfect
parallax.
The more consistent your cheek weld on the stock is, the less
parallax error you will see.

This is one reason that a proper consistent cheek weld is so
important.
A scope with no parallax adjustment will require you to be much
more diligent in your position.
The more finely tuned you get the parallax, the more sloppy your
position can be.
Tracking Test
You should test that your scope tracks properly.
This is also known as a "Box" test.
What you want to do is to go to the range and setup a nice clean
LARGE piece of cardboard at exactly 100yds.
Make sure the cardboard is level left/right.
Setup a single target towards the bottom of the cardboard.
Verify that you are on a proper zero with the gun level left/right
and fire a group on the target.
Mark the shots already on the target so you know which ones
were already on that target.
Adjust your scope left 10moa or 3 mils.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target.
Adjust your scope up 15moa or 4 mils.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target.
Adjust your scope up another 15moa or 4 mils.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target.
Adjust your scope 20moa or 6 mils right.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target.
Adjust your scope back down 15moa or 4 mils.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target.
Adjust your scope back down another 15moa or 4 mils.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target.

Finally, adjust your scope back to the left 10moa or 3 mils.
Fire a couple rounds at the same target and check to see that
they landed within the original group that you shot.
If your scope is tracking correctly, you should end up with a
rectangle on the target frame that's 20.9" wide and 31.4" tall if you
are shooting a scope with MOA knobs.
If your scope is tracking correctly, you should end up with a
rectangle on the target frame that's 21.6" wide and 28.8" tall if you
are shooting a scope with MIL knobs.
The rectangle should be formed perfectly square and level.
If the rectangle has good square corners, but the whole box is
angled, then your scope is probably not mounted straight.
If the rectangle looks more like a parallelogram, then you have a
scope problem.
If the rectangle does not have square corners, you have a scope
problem.

Practice the fundamentals instead of chasing the "Customs"

Jud, I pull my bolt all the time, and it wont fit in hard case without removing bolt because I run large handles.

Sako extractors have been a standard upgrade by gunsmiths on Remingtons for years.

Who runs factory rings? All my guns run 20 moa rails.... I have 4 tikkas... one in factory stock with vertical handle, one in B&C, one in a McMillan, and one in a chassis. I have no complaints with factory stocks though, same weight as an Edge.

That’s good.👍

I don’t sell used boots...

I don’t pull a bolt unless accuracy goes to shiit...

I’ve never had a Remington extractor fail me...

I run factory bolt knobs...

I kill more than 99% of members here...

I use loooooow bc bullets...

I use broke Talley lw’s

I use leupolds....


I’m not a member of the Sitka flatbill Cuunt Facebook crew...

I roll how I roll and it works way better than the bitcholas here....

Remington is where it’s at ....

Fuuck all you no killin California faaaaags and raghorn killin cuuunts....


Those who I’ve spoke of that has a problem know where I live....

All you others , fuuck you too....

Lapua6547 is a stud


Brian aka irfubar is a good sumbitch


The rest are a buncha Sitka wearing flatbill cuunts


Hint.....

Brother Jud,
I have a confession to make..... those carbon fiber barrels are calling my name.... they look so cool.... will they melt with sustained fire?

Bro Bri, I’ve lost all faith!!!

Samuel is drinking white claw, you think carbon fiber snouts are cool!!! Wtf!???


Flatbills skinny jeans and Sitka gear sent!!! 😂😂

Ever since Gruff fed me a white claw I have been having these crazy notions..... maybe I should PM Old Toot for guidance.... I am so confused... lmao

Brian, please don’t tell you drink those fuuckin things now????

No, I only had one .... promise.... whiskey and coke for me... with ice

Ok we’ll break bread, and drink bourbon.... Samuel, I dunno... 😂😂

I had a sip outta the boys couple days ago, I can’t believe I raised him!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Oh and Jud I am currently working on a custom rifle...... FN Mauser, English walnut, rust blue..... 375 H&H baby....

Sammo swings many ways....

I am kinda ashamed to show my Savage in public.....
I did replace the Vortex though.... with an Athlon.... the horror
Eye bleach alert....

For all the hardcore killin fuucks.... I’m a little emotional tonight...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8wcACDwrw

Just a little reminder for the skinny Jean Sitka flatbill no killin crew.... [bleep] you bitches!!! 🖕🏿🖕🏿🖕🏿Haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aozIfEH8vCo

Take that to the bank while you are all suckin ass!! 😂😂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUFpGGe8U_E

judman.another legend in his own mind.listening to him i would think hes big sticks brother.egotistical at all ?.

And I’m guessing YOU named yourself, “slobob” you big dummy....

Suffice it to say, dumbbob, your buddy and I are worlds apart, but you’re “to slo” to tell the difference... Carry on “slobob”....

Depending on intent it is to be used for.....


It’s really plain and simple. If you “need” every last bit of accuracy possible or want resale value then buy a custom...Period. If not, then shoot a factory 700 and put a custom barrel on it. It will shoot better than most can shoot anyways. If you start dumping money into a 700 action you are pissing money away. For us hunters and recreational shooters, a 700 will more than suffice our needs.

You can always "true" the action yourself.

I'd put the accuracy, reliability, etc of my Rem 700 based McWhorter 7-08 up against any other custom you can dream up. Stevie Wonder could shoot 1/2 MOA with it.

Solid.....

I wonder what’s with the 70’s kung pao porn music?

Larry must be kinky....

Quick list of 700 issues that happened to me:

Broken firing pin from poor alignment (one)

Bolt timing/camming - failure to extract (two 700 actions). One was built by a gunsmith on this forum that a prominent poster here dotes on. Said it was hot loads or reloading issues, even after he had the action back in hand to inspect and could clearing see the primary camming timing issue. Sent it to a proper smith who removed and properly timed the handle/cam and problem solved.

Cratered primers (numerous 700 actions)

Misaligned scope base holes (numerous 700 actions)

Bolt handle fell off (one)

As for the bolt release being on the trigger, I've had to tweak on several rifles to operate properly, mainly due to poor action and stock alignment causing the release to rub on the trigger guard. When properly set up, it works, but damn its a cheap flimsy setup, that unnecessarily complicates trigger removal.

805 does em up good.

For shiits an giggles I sent a new ss action to LRI to get their full BP on the CNC. (They do very good work).

With the same chassis and several prefit barrels, I would switch from a stock 700 to the LRI action, same barrel on each action, and record the results. And they were..... couldn't measure any difference in group size to make 2 shiits. The LRI action was smoother and had all the bells and whistles. Net result... 0

Remington has manufactured some lemons for sure.

He do.

Yes they have and for that reason I go straight to custom actions anymore.

They went through a poor quality run for a while. Chad and Mike have both said the new ones are done on a CNC and pretty damn good.

The bolt handle / primary extraction is still iffy. I have never had an issue with extraction on any 700 I have had.

I'm not that lucky either....

How do you know a "new"?

Regardless, I've had enough different actions to know I don't want a 700. Among many other things, integral lugs are pretty important to me. I tend to swap out barrels just for fun and prefer not worrying about aligning the lug in a tightly bed stock.

That stamped piece of tin and tiny spring is garbage. My only remaining Remington has a side bolt release now...

Ah..... good catch. That's what happens when you type and are listening to Buddy Rich and John Henry Bonham drum solos through the Bose headphones.

Distraction....

Lapua, it happens!

I had a 223 out shooting gophers and the extractor would get little slivers of brass in it and stop working. Pulled the bolt and cleaned it out. Windy and dusty day. Now my bolt is back in and the lever is stuck down and I have no bolt stop. Gophers laughing at me everywhere and me with a cleaning rod in one hand and my dick in the other.

Gophers almost got me that day and I swore I’d never let that happen again.

^ hahaha

More often as we age....

I had Bugholes ship Shaen a Bart and he shouldered and chambered it without me sending in my TL3.

Took two weeks from when I ordered.

I bet you were pizzed off like a mofo!

The new 700 are made in your neighborhood.

Good thing I had my knife!

Somehow hit the back button and the post went away. Anyway....

Exactly! I like the option of prefit barrels. I too have several Bighorns. New barrel shows up on the front porch and is installed in 10 minutes, start to finish.

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

You did well!

Huntsville. Whats the status since the bankruptcy?

Kimber is now in Troy, which is about 30 miles from home.

Easy to pull the firing pin out when bumping shoulders too.

I really like a the fixed blade ejector too.

Hear they were gearing up to start production again. Being in the manufacturing business myself, I can understand fully how companies quality goes to shiit. Substandard raw materials, cost cutting, very little training, not reinvesting in machinery, labor reductions, no succession planning, leadership with with no manufacturing experience, bean counters at the helm only caring about their next position, etc.

Bottom line is the 700 is a great design. Perfect? Is there such a thing? Perfect only exists to people who get comfortable and lazy.

Bottom line.....management.... ALWAYS FUUCKS THINGS UP.

This RR factory 700 22-250 shoots mighty fine.

Yo Jud...... wake your ass up

I don't think that there's any question that a 700 can shoot better than "fine". My point is there are certainly many valid reasons to go custom over a 700.

No argument from me. The beauty about living in the USA is we have lots of options to choose from whatever it may be. Purchase what suits you best and enjoy the ride.

Thats right brother.

If I was going to compete again in whatever shooting discipline, I would go custom. For hunting and recreation, 700 with prefits, 805, stock and glass of the day suffice for me.

My (9) Rem700 conversions:
7mmSTW
7mmRemMag
7mmRemMag
7mmRemMag
6.5-06
6.5-06
250 Sav
6mmBR
6mmBR


... (2) more in the pipeline.

All fine calibers.

I couldn't begin to recall the number of 700's I've had built off of......

Remington couldn't recall them all either......


Hey now

I'm sure that's true for a lot of us. Things changes. Better options become available for not much more $$$ in the scheme of things, but the old still works.

Compare actions to the auto 🚘 industry.
They know how to build them but they still recall them.

judman.was just pointing out that you had made statements about your expertise and acumen with hunting and firearms.there are several men on the fire who i have enjoyed and learned some things from over 25 years.humility along with real knowledge are something i and others admire.just food for thought.good hunting and good health.

Slobob, thank you. I will continue to shoot Remington actions, leupold scopes, and Talley lw’s. One thing is a constant, the folks that bitch the most about em, don’t do a whole lotta killin. I’m a killer, a hunter, not a prc shooter. For what I do, I love em and am extremely happy with all 3. I don’t care if you, your buddy, or some dummy that a coworker knows has a “failure”. I do what I do, and it works, that’s what I care about. Good luck “shootin” this year.

judman i wish you no extractor failures or broken bolt handles or spring issues in your triggers.as stated i still have 2 90s rems left new in box which will be fully worked over and barrelled to benchrest standards and only because i am a accuracy fanatic.i have zero against anyone who shoots factory within the capability of the cartridge or there known ability.just since you stated you hunt most likely more than most what are some of your preferred cartridges and most enjoyable game.thanks in advance.remember try to not attack others with the dummy assertion.it isnt respected so much by the majority.thanks and look forward to your opinion.

Bob, I'm a big boy, I tramp around to numerous locales yearly, been huntin one of, if not the wettest gross parts of the country there is, for 40 years, yep I was coon huntin and running a trap line at 6, if I don't know what works by now, its waaaaay too late... As I said prior, good luck this season. Got some stuff lined out already, the last thing I'm worried about, is my gear.👍

I have always felt that it was always possible to learn something from everyone. After reading through this thread, I'm not so sure. GD

i agree greydog.some obviously have it all figured out over a never ending learning curve.lol

Yep your right bob, I’ll keep building on Remingtons, killin [bleep], cause that’s what matters to, along with leupold and Talley rings... actually I’m lying, I break this shiit all the time, I just don’t wanna admit it. 🤭👍😂

Jack O'connor does not approve! ha ..... even Fred had enough sense to get a wood stocked pre64M70, good grief Jud.....

😂😂. Fred got a goodun too. I'd hunt it. But what if the claw broke?😂😂 or the stock warped?😂😂 all these what it's!!!

Fred’s got atleast a pair of nice wood stocked big bores. His 458 has a huge KDF brake and recoils like a .308. Shot it offhand yesterday abusing one of his steel plates.

Not me, my Kimber Talkeetna 375 h&h landed at my ffl this afternoon but I’m a heathen so.......

Here’s one a guy coulda had $150 into after selling the barrel and stock...
program for screenshots for windows

Coulda snatched it, but I’m pretty well good with rifles, need to hunt more. 👍

$150 is pretty close where it needs to be.

Ya just think of how “true” $850 would get it!! 😂

Bergara needs to start selling actions.

Well, I've heard all the stories and read them also. Never had a bolt handle come off, except on a custom receiver. I've never had an extractor problem with a Remington bolt rifle either. I guess that I'm blessed.