You can buy light 7/8oz loads of 6s for a 12 that take some of the ouch out for farm and truck duty. And a pullover "Limbsaver" recoil pad is a great investment.
I love 20s but a 12 is a MUCH more versatile shotgun--all kinds of loads for all kinds of situations ("kills from ducks to Dukes" as a Serbian guide I once had said.). And SOMETHING that goes bang is always available--even in an "ammo drought".
My experience of shooting deer and piggies with a light 12 (Ithaca M-37 "Deerslayer") is that the pain only comes when you are sighting in. Adrenaline takes the pain out of an actual kill shot. Doubt that turkeys are very different.
yep i got a 12 single shot loaded ready in my shed with a 7 1/2 trap load if i need something bigger i head for the garage for my 22 K-Hornet to kill critters. but not all 12 gauge single shot shotguns have a lot of recoil my Perazzi has very little recoil. i also have a 16 1/4 inch barrel 12 gauge single shot i painted white that i ported for nite time critter callin that is still a beast with 3 inch lead BB magnum with recoil. but the shotgun with the most recoil i own is a Savage 220 bolt / slug gun 20 gauge that will has just nasty recoil to shoot .
You looking for a used gun or a new one? If new, Henrys look really nice and they are heavy enough that the weight alone should help with felt recoil.
I see quite a few used single shots on the used rack at my LGS. Sunday at Green Top in Richmond Virginia, they had a variety of older single shots. Some old Savage Stevens that were in good shape, a Winchester that had a nice bore but was a was a bit rough on the exterior, and an old H&R Topper Model 48 in pretty damned good shape. All were under $200 except the Winchester.
You looking for a used gun or a new one? If new, Henrys look really nice and they are heavy enough that the weight alone should help with felt recoil.
I see quite a few used single shots on the used rack at my LGS. Sunday at Green Top in Richmond Virginia, they had a variety of older single shots. Some old Savage Stevens that were in good shape, a Winchester that had a nice bore but was a was a bit rough on the exterior, and an old H&R Topper Model 48 in pretty damned good shape. All were under $200 except the Winchester.
Looking at Stevens 301 in the turkey model. Do the choke tubes, red dot, and a flashlight mount for skunk duty. You can't find cheap H&R or NEF single shots anymore and those 301's come set up well. (Yes I know they are made in China)
12 ga with a 3" turkey load in a single shot does not sound like a lot of fun to me.
Yes.. I was looking on line for lighter payload 12 gauge Non-toxic loads that would be down in 20 gauge range. I hunt federal land and have non-toxic requirements. Didn't really find anything.
I have a 3" 12 gauge barreled H&R. It's a 22 incher with sights and would make a rambo turkey setup. But I just can't see going ahead and doing it as well as my single 20 works.
Having owned some VERY stout recoilers.........if I did do it ..... a Limbsaver recoil pad on the hind end would be numero uno.
Been using a Winchester 37 12 ga for a couple years now after getting tired of carrying a Browning A5 around. Don't feel like I'm giving anything up as a turkey gun
Been using a Winchester 37 12 ga for a couple years now after getting tired of carrying a Browning A5 around. Don't feel like I'm giving anything up as a turkey gun
That same quest had me buying a Henry .410, then a CZ 20ga O/U, then a Browning Gold Hunter 20, and somewhere in there I decided I needed a Citori 725, albeit mostly for clays. Meanwhile, an impulse purchase put a Mossberg 590 tacticool pump in my hands, and it’s close to as heavy as my A5 was, but is shorter, has a sight rail, swivels, and can be taped or painted. Actually it’s pretty handy if I don’t fill up the magazine, so it’ll get a turn anyway.
Meanwhile, the guy with one do-it-all shotgun now has five, not including the one he started with, which went down the road to help pay for the O/U.
Hard to beat a 12 for utility. Shells from 1 3/4” to 3”, payloads as light or heavy as you want.
Been using a Winchester 37 12 ga for a couple years now after getting tired of carrying a Browning A5 around. Don't feel like I'm giving anything up as a turkey gun
That same quest had me buying a Henry .410, then a CZ 20ga O/U, then a Browning Gold Hunter 20, and somewhere in there I decided I needed a Citori 725, albeit mostly for clays. Meanwhile, an impulse purchase put a Mossberg 590 tacticool pump in my hands, and it’s close to as heavy as my A5 was, but is shorter, has a sight rail, swivels, and can be taped or painted. Actually it’s pretty handy if I don’t fill up the magazine, so it’ll get a turn anyway.
Meanwhile, the guy with one do-it-all shotgun now has five, not including the one he started with, which went down the road to help pay for the O/U.
Hard to beat a 12 for utility. Shells from 1 3/4” to 3”, payloads as light or heavy as you want.
My 725 would be my best turkey gun, but i don't want to mess it up. Both barrels shoot to the same point at 40 yards.
You could if you want both. I don't think a skunk or beaver that is shot at a decent range would be able to tell the difference. I can tell you for a fact, the turkeys I have killed with a 12 ga are just as dead as the ones I have shot with a 20 ga.
That is the great part of being a gun nut and living in America, we can choose either or both.
You could if you want both. I don't think a skunk or beaver that is shot at a decent range would be able to tell the difference. I can tell you for a fact, the turkeys I have killed with a 12 ga are just as dead as the ones I have shot with a 20 ga.
That is the great part of being a gun nut and living in America, we can choose either or both.
I'm testing if you guys are enablers or not. ;-)
Side story: I use #2 lead 12 ga on beavers because it pattern much better than buck shot... and I get it free. I have a friend that works at a landfill and they get people bringing in old ammo and he brings it to the gun club to shoot up and saves tax payer dollars. I don't get as much 20 gauge heavy though.
Still debating. I probably have forgotten the pain from my last shoulder injury..
You could if you want both. I don't think a skunk or beaver that is shot at a decent range would be able to tell the difference. I can tell you for a fact, the turkeys I have killed with a 12 ga are just as dead as the ones I have shot with a 20 ga.
That is the great part of being a gun nut and living in America, we can choose either or both.
My second shoulder surgery was enough to convince me, to stop shooting the heavy pounders.
Good reminder...
A couple years ago I was trying a savage 24 in 12 gauge and that thing destroyed my shoulder and I bought my franchi 20 gauge to hunt with that spring.
You have convinced me a turkey only single shot will be 20 gauge.
If your shoulder gives you serious trouble.......you may wanna go .410 for turkey.
I have a healthy shoulder. And I've never been very recoil-sensitive. But a 3" turkey load in a single 20 is NOT your average pussycat. Especially if you have to twist out of position at all. My gun has a pretty good pad on it. But it's still fairly snappy on the hind end. Never did the actual math for free recoil. But I'd say it's close to the same as a 9 pound .300 Magnum.
If your shoulder gives you serious trouble.......you may wanna go .410 for turkey.
I have a healthy shoulder. And I've never been very recoil-sensitive. But a 3" turkey load in a single 20 is NOT your average pussycat. Especially if you have to twist out of position at all. My gun has a pretty good pad on it. But it's still fairly snappy on the hind end. Never did the actual math for free recoil. But I'd say it's close to the same as a 9 pound .300 Magnum.
That's food for thought. The local retailer has a stevens 301 in 20 and 410 on the rack... and some 410 tss loads
Looking at the TSS ammo on the shelf.. I saw 410 @ 13/16 oz (vel 1100 fps) 20 @ 5/8 oz (vel 1000 fps) 12 gauge 3 inch @ 1 3/4 oz. (vel 1200 fps)
Thats not much of a step down from 12 to 20
Although looking at physics impulse momentum equations of MxV = MxV would say that 12 gauge load will be stouter because of the higher velocity and mass.
I just dont know if I can do the 410 though.
The shoulder recovered and I went back to a 12 gauge last season. Mostly because I have a lot of 12 gauge shells and will switch to 20 gauge when they deplete or old age gets me.
Why so ?? Just the thought of it ?? That a .410 just CAN'T be a turkey gun ??
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Not sure why... I see the 410's trend and it really only performs with TSS and I struggle with people using marginal lead shot loads and making poor judgment calls. Especially when they couldn't find TSS or any 410 loads and were shooting anything they could find.
Maybe its a little stunt shooting in my mind, but there is a lot of data that shows it works and those affordable 301's fuel the trend.
Just for the record, I would have a hard time going to a 410 as well. I have seen birds killed first hand with a 410, but it took me a long time to go from 12 to 20....
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Luther doesn't respecr ANYONE. Even when they know more about a subject than does he. He's proving that in several other Fire threads at this very moment and he's proven it time and again in this very turkey forum. 🤡
🤣🤣🤣
It ain't a big deal. Everyone who matters will respect your choice no matter what. 😉👍
I was also a skeptic when the .410 turkey craze began. But I'm open-minded and don't pretend to know everything. So, I did what any reasonable, thinking man woul do. I set one up and TRIED IT........with my own two hands.......my own two eyes.
You ARE right. A guy could do some really dumb and irresponsible stuff to a turkey using a .410, lead shot and zero restraint. The gun I set up is only a 30 yard gun with lead. NO MORE. Paper proves it. Don't under-estimate......carry a rangefinder.
But with #9 or #9.5 TSS........... 40 yards is responsibly do-able. But no more. Believe it.
If you were anywhere near me, I'd invite you to my back yard. I've got a patterning range set up 365 days a year (a guy never knows when a question will arise) and a lifetime supply of 30" paper. Be happy to let you settle the 20....410.....lead.....TSS "mystery" that escapes some.....
Yoder hit the hail on the head about the 410, restraint, is the key word. I guess that goes with about any shotgun when it comes to game, know your pattern and know your limits.
Yoder hit the hail on the head about the 410, restraint, is the key word. I guess that goes with about any shotgun when it comes to game, know your pattern and know your limits.
I didn't believe #9 shot for turkey for a long time... until I tried it!
I'd like to try TSS out of my 56 cal smooth bore T/C, but figure the hardness of the shot wouldn't be too good for the barrel.
No way to load it in a shot cup? Isn't 28 Gauge .55 caliber? Some buffered #9 in a 28 gauge wad over some BP wouldn't work? Sorry, I don't use BP shotguns so maybe it's not plausible.
if you're not just bs shooting one shell after another for fun, a 12 single would serve you well enough (as long as the price was right) i use mixed NEF/H&R guns for everything with no problems The cheapest was $50.00 at a pawn shop some years ago. I've killed deer and assorted small game and varmints with it
Unfortunately they're stupid priced now. I'll be buying one of the 301 chinee models if I ever need another
Lol! No one is saying #2 for turkey, that was for beaver!
I don't like plastic wads when using blackpowder, makes a real mess so the TSS shot would have contact with the barrel. Tried plastic wads when I started using my 10ga ML, what a mess! The wads melt and leave some nasty stringy residue. Takes a lot of cleaning to get rid of it all.
I don't like plastic wads when using blackpowder, makes a real mess so the TSS shot would have contact with the barrel. Tried plastic wads when I started using my 10ga ML, what a mess! The wads melt and leave some nasty stringy residue. Takes a lot of cleaning to get rid of it all.
I've got no experience with ML shotguns so didn't know that. I was wondering since I shoot plastic sabots in my ML rifles and it's kind of the same principle.
I don't like plastic wads when using blackpowder, makes a real mess so the TSS shot would have contact with the barrel. Tried plastic wads when I started using my 10ga ML, what a mess! The wads melt and leave some nasty stringy residue. Takes a lot of cleaning to get rid of it all.
I've got no experience with ML shotguns so didn't know that. I was wondering since I shoot plastic sabots in my ML rifles and it's kind of the same principle.
Do you remember moly coated bullets? Spray the wad exterior with that and it may reduce sticking.
I've shot in-line rifles using plastic sabots as well, never an issue with them like I was getting in the shotgun. So they must be of a different type of plastic. Don't have the 10ga anymore, was before this internet thing where you could go to look for answers... lol! Remember?! Back when we either read it from a book or figured it out ourselves...
There is a solution to this issue. You just don't know what it is yet. When you do and let everyone else know, you'll be internet-famous.
And there has to be a solution. There has to be a plastic wad that won't melt. I'm sitting here fiddling with Hornady 12 gauge black plastic sabot for a .50 caliber slug. The never melt. They sit on top of a white plastic wad that is directly over the powder. I've picked them up off the ground after shooting and they look fine and there is no plastic residue in the bore. So there is something out there that can work.
I know Knight offers plastic wad cups for their in-line shotgun, but those are 12 gauge. When I was really into ML shotgunning, with the 10ga, I had one cabinet that was full of fiber wads, cardboard wads and the wool felt Wonder wads, those worked very well. I first noticed the issue with plastic wads on a goose hunt I was invited to that I was asked to use the 10ga. I cut open 10ga waterfowl shells to use the steel shot and wads for the hunt.
There may be wads for this now, wasn't back when, but haven't looked since I no longer have it.
The solution is plastic shot cups and blackpowder don't mix well....not wanting to listen to people I tried them years ago in a 13 ga. William Powell sxs muzzle loader I had.
There was a little mess I could have worked around it but there was really no improvement in the pattern using the shot cup. It went from nothing to almost slug shooting.
I was using wads that were not slit and i was slitting them myself....no real improvement untill it started shooting too tight.
It takes choking to pattern consistanly at distance
If your ML is .56, it seems a 28 gauge (.550) wad would be appropriate. I can't image why the wad would melt using with BP of it doesn't over smokeless.
Anyways, good luck. It looks like a worthy project. Maybe you can successfuly work up a good TSS load for your ML.
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Luther doesn't respecr ANYONE. Even when they know more about a subject than does he. He's proving that in several other Fire threads at this very moment and he's proven it time and again in this very turkey forum. 🤡
🤣🤣🤣
It ain't a big deal. Everyone who matters will respect your choice no matter what. 😉👍
I was also a skeptic when the .410 turkey craze began. But I'm open-minded and don't pretend to know everything. So, I did what any reasonable, thinking man woul do. I set one up and TRIED IT........with my own two hands.......my own two eyes.
You ARE right. A guy could do some really dumb and irresponsible stuff to a turkey using a .410, lead shot and zero restraint. The gun I set up is only a 30 yard gun with lead. NO MORE. Paper proves it. Don't under-estimate......carry a rangefinder.
But with #9 or #9.5 TSS........... 40 yards is responsibly do-able. But no more. Believe it.
If you were anywhere near me, I'd invite you to my back yard. I've got a patterning range set up 365 days a year (a guy never knows when a question will arise) and a lifetime supply of 30" paper. Be happy to let you settle the 20....410.....lead.....TSS "mystery" that escapes some.....
You might could make yourself a caliber-sized paper tube shot cup and line it with one of those mylar wraps that are used for loading shot types that are harder than steel.....
Why so ?? Just the thought of it ?? That a .410 just CAN'T be a turkey gun ??
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Not sure why... I see the 410's trend and it really only performs with TSS and I struggle with people using marginal lead shot loads and making poor judgment calls. Especially when they couldn't find TSS or any 410 loads and were shooting anything they could find.
Maybe its a little stunt shooting in my mind, but there is a lot of data that shows it works and those affordable 301's fuel the trend.
I'm thinking on it.
I don't care what you shoot....most of the guys shooting 410s are blind sitters sitting over decoys spreads.
If you think that is turkey hunting there's no reason for me to try and convince anything different.
Truth was know YoderbOy is likely a blind sitter.....
Like all kids that grow up shooting, you used what was available, whether it was dad's, grandpa's, or... In my case, it was dad's single shot 16 gauge and a single shot bolt action 22LR. I was taught that with a single shot, to make the 1 shot count! And also, with a single shot shotgun, recoil was just part of the equation. Looking back, I think dad was just trying to slow down the amount of ammo I was shooting up with those 2 single shots! Lol! Fast forward a lot of years to today and I'm at 2 single shot shotguns. A 12ga 1st gen Winchester 101 Trap 34" top single and the little 20ga H&R I just picked up. With the shells/shot available today, I can't see a 12 being that much better than a 20 within the ranges we use this stuff for. Of course, it all depends on what you already have for shells and how much money you want to spend on any part of it. IMO, you can't go wrong with whichever one you choose.
Like all kids that grow up shooting, you used what was available,
A lot of folks still do, and sometimes just for the hell of it. The guy I shoot sporting clays with is an avid bird hunter. He took an old Mossberg bolt action .410, along with his nornal O/U, on a NC quail hunt. Even managed to score a few quail with it.
Where the 12 really blows the 20 away is with coarse shot. Buckshot for defense (mostly) and steel for waterfowl. But in both cases......most guys are gonna pick a pump or auto gun.
Like all kids that grow up shooting, you used what was available,
A lot of folks still do, and sometimes just for the hell of it. The guy I shoot sporting clays with is an avid bird hunter. He took an old Mossberg bolt action .410, along with his nornal O/U, on a NC quail hunt. Even managed to score a few quail with it.
Now THERE'S a trooper !!! 😁
I own a grand total of ONE bolt shotgun. A Marlin Super Goose 10. I inherited it. Never shot it. Likely never will
Agreed. No way I'd hunt deer with 20 pellets of #3 buck out of a 20 gauge. Shot is too small and there's not enough of it. Buckshot is where the 12 gauge 3 1/2" really shines. 15-18 00 pellets at 1300-1450 fps. You pay for that in the shoulder. But it's deadly.
As far as sub gauges go, if you ever thought about getting into the 28 gauge, now is the time. Our big gun store in Virginia, Green Top near Richmond, is full of 28 gauge guns and ammo. Benelli SBE3s, O/Us of all makes, Browning BPS pumps, and just about every commerical load in 28 gauge. Can't find 20 gauge shells there. But there are mountains of 28 gauge.
Like all kids that grow up shooting, you used what was available,
A lot of folks still do, and sometimes just for the hell of it. The guy I shoot sporting clays with is an avid bird hunter. He took an old Mossberg bolt action .410, along with his nornal O/U, on a NC quail hunt. Even managed to score a few quail with it.
Now THERE'S a trooper !!! 😁
I own a grand total of ONE bolt shotgun. A Marlin Super Goose 10. I inherited it. Never shot it. Likely never will
You can run into some weird puppies at a sporting clay range....
Why so ?? Just the thought of it ?? That a .410 just CAN'T be a turkey gun ??
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Not sure why... I see the 410's trend and it really only performs with TSS and I struggle with people using marginal lead shot loads and making poor judgment calls. Especially when they couldn't find TSS or any 410 loads and were shooting anything they could find.
Maybe its a little stunt shooting in my mind, but there is a lot of data that shows it works and those affordable 301's fuel the trend.
I'm thinking on it.
I don't care what you shoot....most of the guys shooting 410s are blind sitters sitting over decoys spreads.
If you think that is turkey hunting there's no reason for me to try and convince anything different.
Truth was know YoderbOy is likely a blind sitter.....
For the first time ever, looked around online about this. Results are the same as when looking for answers here on the "fire". Yes you can, no you can't, you're an idiot, no you're the idiot... lol! But looking in some of the bigger ML supply websites, none of them list anything plastic that I could find. I did find instances like I was dealing with, the wads melting. Guys even telling about instances where plastic hulls were melting as well after prolonged shooting. For me, it's a mute point as I no longer ML shotgun. But if I were to get back into it...
I after reading a bit on T/C .56 Caliber smoothbore, it seems it's a T/C Renegade .54 with the rifling removed. Made back in the '70s when the ML seasons in some NE state only allowed smoothbores. So, it seems it's safe to assume the gun has a straight bore and no choke at all.
You need to create a shot-lock-like load for it. Seems like it could be a fun project to get a load that fires without damaging the bore, and holds together tight enough to be useful at reasonable ranges.
Why so ?? Just the thought of it ?? That a .410 just CAN'T be a turkey gun ??
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Not sure why... I see the 410's trend and it really only performs with TSS and I struggle with people using marginal lead shot loads and making poor judgment calls. Especially when they couldn't find TSS or any 410 loads and were shooting anything they could find.
Maybe its a little stunt shooting in my mind, but there is a lot of data that shows it works and those affordable 301's fuel the trend.
I'm thinking on it.
I don't care what you shoot....most of the guys shooting 410s are blind sitters sitting over decoys spreads.
If you think that is turkey hunting there's no reason for me to try and convince anything different.
Truth was know YoderbOy is likely a blind sitter.....
Why so ?? Just the thought of it ?? That a .410 just CAN'T be a turkey gun ??
Because Luther wouldn't respect me in the morning.
Not sure why... I see the 410's trend and it really only performs with TSS and I struggle with people using marginal lead shot loads and making poor judgment calls. Especially when they couldn't find TSS or any 410 loads and were shooting anything they could find.
Maybe its a little stunt shooting in my mind, but there is a lot of data that shows it works and those affordable 301's fuel the trend.
I'm thinking on it.
I don't care what you shoot....most of the guys shooting 410s are blind sitters sitting over decoys spreads.
If you think that is turkey hunting there's no reason for me to try and convince anything different.
Truth was know YoderbOy is likely a blind sitter.....
I am a blind sitter and use decoys.
I'd go fow tin....
Thank you for your recommendation and endorsement.
Are there .410 shells available where you're at ?? Lead loads ??
Lead loads are the hard ones to find right now. Shouldn't be hard to find TSS for it.
I was at the store last week and saw they had a 20 gauge and 410 on the shelf and saw the 410 TSS ammo... But I didn't look for lead for patterning.
I have some 410 lead at home for my 410 pistol that I could use for testing & red dot sighting.
Now the question has morphed from 12 down to 410 and do I want it for my real old age for a 5# gun and really light recoil over the more ammo available and universal 20 gauge.
Is the $30 price reduction and the gun is there on the rack availability enough to do the 410?? (and if ammo is available)
Are there .410 shells available where you're at ?? Lead loads ??
Lead loads are the hard ones to find right now. Shouldn't be hard to find TSS for it.
I was at the store last week and saw they had a 20 gauge and 410 on the shelf and saw the 410 TSS ammo... But I didn't look for lead for patterning.
I have some 410 lead at home for my 410 pistol that I could use for testing & red dot sighting.
Now the question has morphed from 12 down to 410 and do I want it for my real old age for a 5# gun and really light recoil over the more ammo available and universal 20 gauge.
Is the $30 price reduction and the gun is there on the rack availability enough to do the 410?? (and if ammo is available)
Hmmm...
For the price............. Buy the .410 Try it. When the 20 comes available. Try IT. If they both suit you......... you're in it for a grand total of $360 + the governor's share. If one isn't tickling you then sell it.
Are there .410 shells available where you're at ?? Lead loads ??
Lead loads are the hard ones to find right now. Shouldn't be hard to find TSS for it.
I was at the store last week and saw they had a 20 gauge and 410 on the shelf and saw the 410 TSS ammo... But I didn't look for lead for patterning.
I have some 410 lead at home for my 410 pistol that I could use for testing & red dot sighting.
Now the question has morphed from 12 down to 410 and do I want it for my real old age for a 5# gun and really light recoil over the more ammo available and universal 20 gauge.
Is the $30 price reduction and the gun is there on the rack availability enough to do the 410?? (and if ammo is available)
Hmmm...
For the price............. Buy the .410 Try it. When the 20 comes available. Try IT. If they both suit you......... you're in it for a grand total of $360 + the governor's share. If one isn't tickling you then sell it.
I've spent $360 on a lot dumber things.
You're an enabler.
I can always dabble with them and wait until spring time when grand dad's get in a panic to find a 301 410 for their kid that supposedly can't take recoil.
the 410 may make a nice beaver gun too because all you shoot at is the head typically.... (I'm convincing myself now...)
That sort of land takes priority. You can always get one later if you so decide. Might even be able to find something better. I was at Green Top Hunt and Fish store in Richmond, Va last weekend and they had an old Harrington & Richardson Model 48 20 gauge in spectacular conditon. If I didn't already have a Model 58 in 20 gauge, I would have bought it. Kinda sorry I didn't buy it anyway.
That sort of land takes priority. You can always get one later if you so decide. Might even be able to find something better. I was at Green Top Hunt and Fish store in Richmond, Va last weekend and they had an old Harrington & Richardson Model 48 20 gauge in spectacular conditon. If I didn't already have a Model 58 in 20 gauge, I would have bought it. Kinda sorry I didn't buy it anyway.
I can always get the 3-1-20 gauge and I think I will after the holidays and my land deal is done. Hopefully prices won't go up.
My franchi affinity 20 may get replaced by the 301 so I can put it back to grouse hunting
That sort of land takes priority. You can always get one later if you so decide. Might even be able to find something better. I was at Green Top Hunt and Fish store in Richmond, Va last weekend and they had an old Harrington & Richardson Model 48 20 gauge in spectacular conditon. If I didn't already have a Model 58 in 20 gauge, I would have bought it. Kinda sorry I didn't buy it anyway.
I can always get the 301-20 gauge and I think I will after the holidays and my land deal is done. Hopefully prices won't go up.
My franchi affinity 20 may get replaced by the 301 so I can put it back to grouse hunting.
I've been wanting a Mossberg 500 .410 for some time now. Everytime I'm in my LGS, I pick it up and play with it. Seems like it would be a fun gun for small game. The ONLY reason I haven't gotten it yet is because I haven't seen any lead ammo except buckshot. Would hate to buy a gun and not find decent ammo.
I'm a little surprised there aren't more US manufacturers out there building quality hunting single shots. I think Henry is the only one.
The LLC that owns Palmetto State Armory bought Harrington and Richardson. They stated they had planned to make M1 Garands under the H&R name. But I've heard nothing else to date. If they were to turn out a quality single shot, like the Model 58, at a reasonable cost, they'd probably sell a bunch of them.
I've been wanting a Mossberg 500 .410 for some time now. Everytime I'm in my LGS, I pick it up and play with it. Seems like it would be a fun gun for small game. The ONLY reason I haven't gotten it yet is because I haven't seen any lead ammo except buckshot. Would hate to buy a gun and not find decent ammo.
I've had several .410's over the years. They work OK on rabbits/squirrels with lead loads if you don't need to shoot much past 25 yards. Every time I hear somebody say they're a good squirrel gun I think they must not have very tall timber where they hunt. They won't reliably drop squirrels out of the top of a 100 foot hickory when you're standing at the bottom of the tree. BTDT dozens of times with full choke .410's and various 2.5 and 3" shells loaded with #6 and 7.5 lead shot and results are less than satisfactory. I don't mess with the little toy pop guns anymore. My shoulder ain't that tender and I have no problem carrying around the weight of a real shotgun all day.
Note I said a fun gun on small game, not a fine gun! Seriously, though, a .410 with the right load and reasonable shots is perfectly adequate.
I shoot the vasty majority of my squirrels on the ground. Rarely past 25 yards. Some further, but not too many. Mostly with a .22, sometimes with a 12 gauge, but lately with a 20 gauge. I only take open shots. What I don't do is blast into shaking foliage or shoot into brush and hope a squirrel falls out. And #6 is the smallest shot I will use on squirrels. #7.5 and finer just makes a damned mess. #8 IMO is worthless unless you are just using it for pest control. I prefer high velocity #4 or, 2nd choice #5. #4 will shoot completely through a squirrel at reasonable ranges, will break leg bones, and won't bloodshot meat. I have no doubt Federal Hi Brass 3" #4 .410 at over 1,100 fps would be an authoritative squirrel killer at reasonable ranges.
I used 7.5 shot with the .410 to get pellet count up because it doesn't hold but a thimble full and the patterns with bigger shot SUCK with plenty of squirrel vitals sized voids past 20-25 yards . #4 shot ain't the greatest for squirrels unless you're heaving a lot of it for that reason. I've come to prefer a 12 gauge load of 1 1/4 oz. of #5 shot or 1 oz. of #6 in my 16 and 20 gauge guns to keep the pellet count/pattern density/penetration equation at optimum levels in the tall timber where shots can be long. This is based on 48 years experience and several thousand squirrels brought to bag with every gauge from 12 to .410. I prefer to use a .22 when/where appropriate but some of my best squirrel hunting spots are in farm woodlots with houses/barns/livestock within a few hundred yards in nearly every direction and I won't launch bullets skyward in such places.
No body but a Democrat wants a single shot gun....
Seem popular with turkey hunters wanting a light gun.
Also popular with off grid dooms day mountain man survivalist woods loafers that like the cartridge adapters to shoot multiple ammo types. They don't seem like democrats.
Or guys that own farms that want a quick to load legal low cost truck guns (like me)...
But you're the F'in expert here on guns and demographics.
I had a 410 growing up and it worked on sitting grouse, never wingshot them... Disappointed on squirrels great on farm yard wood chuck.
I suppose a person could use TSS on squirrels and get them up in the trees.
;-)
It doesn't have to be disappointing on squirrels. A #4 or #5, #6 or #7.5 pellet flying at 1100-1200 fps doesn't know if it came out of a .410 or a 12 gauge. The difference is the amount of shot, and pellet energy. The reason any gauge/caliber is disappopinting on squirrels is using shot that is too fine, and/or shooting too far, and/or taking bad shots.
If you make a decision based on other peoples preferences, you're never going to make a decision. The simple fact is, a .410 is perfectly adequate for turkeys, squirrels, and many other game animals IF you take reasonable shots.
I'm looking at a 12 gauge single shot for a short gun for rainy days in a blind or to carry it in the truck as back up to my autoloader.
This will also serve as my farm truck skunk & beaver gun when not turkey hunting.
Or should I just save my shoulder and go 20 gauge?
20 Gauges are nice, but if you don't want to buy another gun, there are plenty of lower power 2 3/4 shells for skunk and beaver work that mimic 20 gauge loads. For turkey, Foxtrot ammo makes a 12 gauge, 2 3/4 TSS 1 5/8 load that is the same as the 20 gauge Turkey load. TSS #8 is proven penetration out to 50 yards, #9 is proven penetration out to 40 yards. Some people stretch that range.
I'm looking at a 12 gauge single shot for a short gun for rainy days in a blind or to carry it in the truck as back up to my autoloader.
This will also serve as my farm truck skunk & beaver gun when not turkey hunting.
Or should I just save my shoulder and go 20 gauge?
20 Gauges are nice, but if you don't want to buy another gun, there are plenty of lower power 2 3/4 shells for skunk and beaver work that mimic 20 gauge loads. For turkey, Foxtrot ammo makes a 12 gauge, 2 3/4 TSS 1 5/8 load that is the same as the 20 gauge Turkey load. TSS #8 is proven penetration out to 50 yards, #9 is proven penetration out to 40 yards. Some people stretch that range.
Good to know. I haven't seen many lighter non-tox loads out there.
I did the same thing. I had a upland bird gun that I converted over to my turkey gun. When I saw first hand the way it worked on turkeys, I bought a dedicated 20 for turkeys and converted my upland gun back over.
