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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,612 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,612 Likes: 1 |
Will it take out southern Cali. Sacramento?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Ooh. Burn.
You didn't clarify your comment, c ock gobbler.
I'm sorry, my crayon font is broken. Maybe phone a friend? Clark
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3 |
Just added a pic / drawing to a post above, sorry I didn't put it there first go round,....I THINK that what we're seeing in that hole immediately below that spill wall IS the actual core structure of the "impervious wall". The minimalist philosophy that defines the engineering of "Earth Filled Dams" DICTATES that that core structure has to have massive weight (overburden) bearing on it from above,..... ....washing it all away is not a very bright idea, and one has to ask, WTF else did they EXPECT that overburden to do ?
GTC Crossfire, neither spillway is on the earthfill dam.
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3 |
http://jaytaylormedia.com/who-will-be-blamed-if-the-oroville-dam-fails/"In a lengthy analysis of the political battle to win approval for the dam, historian Marc Reisner recounted how Governor Pat Brown — father of the current governor — repeatedly fabricated numbers about the dam’s true cost in order to hoodwink the voters into approving the enormously expensive project through a bond issue in 1959. Reisner showed that honest estimates concluded the dam would cost approximately 3 billion dollars — more than 20 billion in 2016 dollars — so Brown simply invented a number of 1.75 billion. Reisner concluded that Brown knew that “not one” state would vote for such a huge bond issue, so Brown hid the real cost. To get it passed, Brown did what politicians always do — he engaged in fear-mongering and suggested to Southern California voters that they’d run out of water without the new dam. But even these methods nearly failed to get the dam approved. 48 of 50 counties in the state voted against the dam. The measure only passed because southern Californians, long used to cheap, subsidized water, were happy to see the rest of the state go into debt to pay for even more water." Funny you would quote Marc Reisner. Not an historian, he was a lawyer, and an environmentalist, who wrote "Cadillac Desert", about how terrible dams and water development were. Your google-fu is weak, if you don't understand what you are cutting and pasting. Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Crossfire, neither spillway is on the earthfill dam. Right, syc,....they both sit on solidly agglomerated seam and fault free GRANITE bedrock,the very bones of the fuggin' earth. ....no, wait,....la la land pixie dust poofing makes whatever that schidt is even STOUTER than that. Thanks for getting us all up to speed. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3 |
Interesting that Pat Brown resided over the planning, financing and construction over the dam.
And his son Jerry Brown resided over the maintenance, and both appeared to have failed. URfubar, How many years of Republican governors in California since Pat Brown (finished in 1967)? Just so we know who presided over the maintenance? Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3 |
So - this info they're putting out about 30' to the bedrock meaning only a 30' wall of water would imply that the concrete emergency "spillway" - which is, in fact, at least on the south end, actually a section of dam itself (because of the natural slope in that direction)...is embedded directly upon bedrock. I guess. Or not....
Fester has reasons to be worried. Someone is downplaying this for sure. The 30' wall of water would be if the dam was filled to top and the 30' cap of the emergency spillway failed. What isn't being addressed is the failure of the main spillway, a failure that is well below the top of the dam and if that failure led to the dam failing at that level... Yup, a 10X and right on the money again, think cavitation That headwall and grout curtain are ONLY valid with OVERBURDEN holing em' down. the main spillway is excavated into rock at the top. Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
the main spillway is excavated into rock at the top.
Sycamore
well, I'd say only a greenhorn would call that schidt "rock", or "bedrock. Metamorphic rocks often cause engineering problems, as such rocks are often folded, resulting in tectonized/fractured areas in an otherwise stable rock mass. Also, the particular structure (the geological correct term is texture) of such rocks poses a problem. Metamorphic foliation forms when elongated or plate-shaped minerals (like micas) are forced by tectonic pressure into a same alignment. Between the minerals the parallel surfaces of the foliation form weak zones, prone to break. If such surfaces are tilted entire packets of rock can easily slip and be washed away by water. No matter, once they laid a reinforced concrete pad out ver backfill in front (lakeside), that mighty ridge (or pile of schidt) BECAME a component of an earth filled dam. The fact that the other side wasn't ever completed to anything resembling a spec. now becomes apparent. .....fuggin' Reagan, anyway. GTC
Last edited by crossfireoops; 02/15/17.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3 |
Crossfire, neither spillway is on the earthfill dam. Right, syc,....they both sit on solidly agglomerated seam and fault free GRANITE bedrock,the very bones of the fuggin' earth. ....no, wait,....la la land pixie dust poofing makes whatever that schidt is even STOUTER than that. Thanks for getting us all up to speed. GTC That's the trick with dam building, they're cheaper if you build them where the river is, rather than wandering around looking for optimum bedrock. Hydro_Quebec and those Ontario boys have it made, the Canadian shield and plenty water, everybody else has to work with what they got. p/s I doubt if you will be up to speed on this topic, but I appreciate your occasional willingness to learn. Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
I doubt if you will be up to speed on this topic, but I appreciate your occasional willingness to learn. Right syc,....so don't waste time on me here, there are a herd of nasty conservatives for you to go chase, so go sic em' GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Perhaps, but you will always be a c*nt.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,243 Likes: 3 |
you sure are a grumpy little guy! you used to be so nice, when you were moving across country, you'd butter everybody up, so they'd let you stay with the. Of course, you felt free to talk schidt about them after the hospitality was over. Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Current forecast is for three storms in a row.
Light rain
"Light rain
Heavy rain
The dame should be 60 feed down when #3 hits Thanks, Señor GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,840 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,840 Likes: 4 |
CA governors
Reagan 68-74 R
Brown 74-82 D
Dukemejian 82-90 R
Wilson Rino
Gray Davis D
Arnold Rino
Brown again D
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,442
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,442 |
WOW! It's been a long day on this dam thread!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,269 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,269 Likes: 2 |
Imagine this hole Being exposed to this Anyone else wonder where the huge boulders in the second phot came from? Dug up and shoved downhill by the torrent? The different angles make it hard to really see what's going on, but the ground on that side of the spillway was previously much higher. Quite possible that those boulders were covered by dirt where they sit, until water washed it away. Scan through collections of historical photos next to recent ones and you'll see what I mean.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,704 Likes: 52
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,704 Likes: 52 |
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,269 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,269 Likes: 2 |
Yup, and people do not realize how lucky folks were the Teton Dam collapsed while being filled instead of 130' below the top. The next 100' was a Hell of a lot more water than the first.
There was also similar "bedrock" there that was the problem. And it was volcanic tuff as I recall with better properties than foliated basalt. That's an interesting statement, since basalt can't be foliated - it's igneous. But never mind that - the bedrock at Teton wasn't tuff anyway, it was rhyolite, as is much of the bedrock in Idaho. The fact is that the bedrock at Teton had fissures (typical of rhyolite) that weren't grouted sufficiently (if that is even possible), and the dam failed from low on one side. So the bedrock under Teton dam was not better than, or even similar to, what is under Oroville. And the dynamics of that dam failure were not in any way comparable to what is happening at Oroville (at this time).
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,893 |
The sky is falling the sky is falling damnagidon is upon us!!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
That's an interesting statement, since basalt can't be foliated - it's igneous. Per my posted yesterday: According to available geological maps, the Oroville Dam is build on the Smartville ophiolite, consisting of dark grey, steeply-dipping and strongly foliated metamorphic rocks. Once of volcanic origin, erupted in an ancient sea, the rocks were uplifted and metamorphosed during the formation of the Sierra Nevada.
OK,...let's hear it. WTF, Over ?
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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