|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26 |
I've shot my 700 fast at elk escaping in fog. It was more of an excited mistake than skill, but the rifle ran like a Singer. The trigger froze up once in freezing rain, but it was fixed in the field. I think I read the extractors rarely fail if kept clean. The big trick with 700 extractors is to clean brass particles and other gunk from under the extractor. I do it every time I clean the barrel, which is usually every 25-50 rounds, depending on the rifle.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,285 |
Sure as heck will never trust my life to a Remington 700. That whole situation was a comedy of errors. I killed the grizzly in the photo posted earlier with a Remington 700, and had to shoot rapidly a couple more times even though the first shot was fatal--going through both lungs and the top of the heart. But had used that action (a stainless "short-action magnum") for close to 1000 rounds, and it had already proven itself on a couple dozen big game animals, from above the Artic Circle to dusty Texas. Oh, and I always made sure it was well-maintained. Might also mention that Ross Seyfried, who I got to know pretty well when he was still in the gun-writing business, used a 700 .416 Remington Magnum as PH in Africa.... https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-had-a-bolt-handle-break-off#Post8557447Help yourself. I'll pass.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26 |
Whatever.
There are easy fixes to prevent a 700 bolt handle from breaking off--though I've fired over 20,000 rounds from various 700s and never had it happen.
Have also been with other shooters who fired around 80,000 rounds. Now, most of those were smaller cartridges, often 223s and similar stuff. But perhaps amazingly, have never seen a bolt come off or an extractor break. On the other hand, have seen "controlled-feed" extractors jump over the rim of fired cases and leave 'em in the chamber.
Almost anything can happen with ANY bolt-action, but have found well-maintained (and tested) push-feed actions to be very reliable. As did Ross.
The biggie is to thoroughly test 'em beforehand, and keep 'em clean.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,796
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,796 |
Using max-power handloads is what nearly killed them. Yep…that was my first thought when watching the video and I’m glad they discussed it at the end. Probably the worst situation for that hunt that could happen. The rifle was the backup for the bow, when the bear got out of bow range they decided to take it with the rifle. I got the impression the first two hits were into vitals. I suppose one could make the argument that a 243 with factory ammo would have been a better choice.. grins Schit happens
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,938 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,938 Likes: 1 |
Yet you listen to some knuckleheads here on the fire and every Remington they’ve been around has extraction issues and they are tripping over 700 handles in the woods. Whatever.
There are easy fixes to prevent a 700 bolt handle from breaking off--though I've fired over 20,000 rounds from various 700s and never had it happen.
Have also been with other shooters who fired around 80,000 rounds. Now, most of those were smaller cartridges, often 223s and similar stuff. But perhaps amazingly, have never seen a bolt come off or an extractor break. On the other hand, have seen "controlled-feed" extractors jump over the rim of fired cases and leave 'em in the chamber.
Almost anything can happen with ANY bolt-action, but have found well-maintained (and tested) push-feed actions to be very reliable. As did Ross.
The biggie is to thoroughly test 'em beforehand, and keep 'em clean.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,065
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,065 |
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,518
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
keep your ground gun, i'll use either a TC Encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 444 Marlin with 280gr WFN GC and Reloder 7 or a Husqvarna m46 in 9.3x57 with 275gr WFN GC and IMR 4895.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,551 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,551 Likes: 7 |
I know a guy who deliberately took a .260 Remington to Alaska to hunt grizzly, and got a big boar with one chest shot. Can't remember the bullet, but know it wasn't a monolithic, and might even have been some sort of target bullet. But he's a professional hunter and very fine shot. Around the same time, that particular fella also killed a pronghorn with a .338LM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,040
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,040 |
I seem to remember an Outdoor Life writeup 10-20 years ago of an impressively tough female hunting guide in Alaska named Heidi Gutfrucht (sp?).
I vaguely remember her favoring a 25-06 as a Grizzly cartridge although she switched to a 45-70 lever gun when she was backing up clients later in her career.
The upshot of her experience, which was wide and decades long, was that most common deer cartridges could kill a Grizzly, but stopping one that was intent on killing you was an entirely different matter.
Last edited by czech1022; 09/17/23.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,110 Likes: 36
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,110 Likes: 36 |
I seem to remember an Outdoor Life writeup 10-20 years ago of an impressively tough female hunting guide in Alaska named Heidi Gutfrucht (sp?).
I vaguely remember her favoring a 25-06 as a Grizzly cartridge although she switched to a 45-70 lever gun when she was backing up clients later in her career.
The upshot of her experience, which was wide and decades long, was that most common deer cartridges could kill a Grizzly, but stopping one that was intent on killing you was an entirely different matter. BC. Only know that because I remember her name from when I was looking at stone outfitters. WTF I had done that one when I first started looking 15 years ago. 😬
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,962 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,962 Likes: 3 |
Sure as heck will never trust my life to a Remington 700. That whole situation was a comedy of errors. I killed the grizzly in the photo posted earlier with a Remington 700, and had to shoot rapidly a couple more times even though the first shot was fatal--going through both lungs and the top of the heart. But had used that action (a stainless "short-action magnum") for close to 1000 rounds, and it had already proven itself on a couple dozen big game animals, from above the Artic Circle to dusty Texas. Oh, and I always made sure it was well-maintained. Might also mention that Ross Seyfried, who I got to know pretty well when he was still in the gun-writing business, used a 700 .416 Remington Magnum as PH in Africa.... https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-had-a-bolt-handle-break-off#Post8557447Help yourself. I'll pass. Better not drive a vehicle either. Could be involved in an accident. No clue how many 700s I have owned and been around. Never seen a bolt handle come off. Most have had a good amount of stiff handliads in them too. Not saying it doesn't happen but not nearly as much of a problem as some would like to believe.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 576
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 576 |
back to the original topic, Phil Shoemaker once said using anything less than a .270 for brown bears was just a stunt
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 893
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 893 |
Then he shoots one with a 9m/m pistol!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,285 |
Then he shoots one with a 9m/m pistol! Lmao Better to be lucky than smart. Just like duffus in the video.
Last edited by justin10mm; 09/17/23.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26 |
I seem to remember an Outdoor Life writeup 10-20 years ago of an impressively tough female hunting guide in Alaska named Heidi Gutfrucht (sp?).
I vaguely remember her favoring a 25-06 as a Grizzly cartridge although she switched to a 45-70 lever gun when she was backing up clients later in her career.
The upshot of her experience, which was wide and decades long, was that most common deer cartridges could kill a Grizzly, but stopping one that was intent on killing you was an entirely different matter. I met Heidi and got to talk to her quite a bit when I spent time in rifle maker D'Arcy Echols' booth at the Federation of North American Wild Sheep convention over 20 years ago. She used her .25-06 as her personal hunting rifle for everything, including grizzlies and bull moose. But she was thinking about getting a bigger rifle for grizzly back-up even then, after a couple of clients proved they couldn't shoot very well in the field, though they did OK when check-shooting their rifles before the hunt.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,962 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,962 Likes: 3 |
I seem to remember an Outdoor Life writeup 10-20 years ago of an impressively tough female hunting guide in Alaska named Heidi Gutfrucht (sp?).
I vaguely remember her favoring a 25-06 as a Grizzly cartridge although she switched to a 45-70 lever gun when she was backing up clients later in her career.
The upshot of her experience, which was wide and decades long, was that most common deer cartridges could kill a Grizzly, but stopping one that was intent on killing you was an entirely different matter. I met Heidi and got to talk to her quite a bit when I spent time in rifle maker D'Arcy Echols' booth at the Federation of North American Wild Sheep convention over 20 years ago. She used her .25-06 as her personal hunting rifle for everything, including grizzlies and bull moose. But she was thinking about getting a bigger rifle for grizzly back-up even then, after a couple of clients proved they couldn't shoot very well in the field, though they did OK when check-shooting their rifles before the hunt. I read a story years ago and it seems she was the one who said she didn't know why anybody would shoot those darned Partitions. Claimed they ruined too much meat. Whoever it was did shoot a 25-06 with 120 Core-Lokts.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26 |
Then he shoots one with a 9m/m pistol! Lmao Better to be lucky than smart. Just like duffus in the video. Phil wasn't lucky. He'd tested the ammo thoroughly for penetration and knew the bullets would do the job. He also knew where to shoot the bear, because he's stopped a bunch of brown bear charges during half a century of guiding.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,962 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,962 Likes: 3 |
I know a guy who deliberately took a .260 Remington to Alaska to hunt grizzly, and got a big boar with one chest shot. Can't remember the bullet, but know it wasn't a monolithic, and might even have been some sort of target bullet. But he's a professional hunter and very fine shot.
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned that Bella Twin, a Canadian woman, shot what was then the B&C record grizzly in 1953 with a .22 rimfire rifle, and she used .22 Longs, not even Long Rifles.
Twenty years ago I hunted musk ox with an Inuit guide in the Northwest Territories named David Ameganik, and he regularly killed polar bears with a .22 rimfire--though he stepped it up a notch and used a .22 Magnum (which he pronounced mag-a-num). He would sneak up within 50 yards amid jumbled ice-pack, and shoot them behind the shoulder once. He said after 10-15 minutes they'd "go to sleep." He didn't want to shoot them with his "big" rifle, a .30-30 Winchester Model 94, because the holes it made were too big, which lowered the value of the pelts. The problem with waiting 10-15 minutes for the bear to go to sleep is what he could accomplish in that 10-15 minutes if he smelled breakfast.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,207 Likes: 26 |
Which is why the guy was careful to stalk into the wind, like you're supposed to, and hide in the crumpled ice-pack after he shot. The rimfire round didn't make much noise compared to the creaking and popping of the ice, and the bears didn't even notice the bullet hitting them very much.
At the time David was in his 50s and had killed a lot of bears. He and his wife lived in Gjoa Haven, a tiny town on an island north of the Canadian mainland, and she had a sister who lived in Rankin Inlet, another small town on Hudson's Bay. After the Arctic Ocean froze they'd take a snowmobile towing a sled with a bunch of gas cans over the ice, then head across the mainland for Rankin. They'd shoot caribou and polar bears on the way over, stowing caribou meat and gas cans periodically under rockpiles. They'd sell the bear hides in Rankin, then head back, stopping at the gas/meat caches for fuel and food.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,790 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,790 Likes: 11 |
I seem to remember an Outdoor Life writeup 10-20 years ago of an impressively tough female hunting guide in Alaska named Heidi Gutfrucht (sp?).
I vaguely remember her favoring a 25-06 as a Grizzly cartridge although she switched to a 45-70 lever gun when she was backing up clients later in her career.
The upshot of her experience, which was wide and decades long, was that most common deer cartridges could kill a Grizzly, but stopping one that was intent on killing you was an entirely different matter. BC. Only know that because I remember her name from when I was looking at stone outfitters. WTF I had done that one when I first started looking 15 years ago. 😬 No kidding. I hunted moose and elk with Stone Mountain Safaris in 08 and a stone was $32k IIRC. Today that hunt is ~$70 with them (they have been sold in between).
Conduct is the best proof of character.
|
|
|
|
548 members (1minute, 1234, 222Sako, 06hunter59, 163bc, 204guy, 66 invisible),
2,502
guests, and
1,201
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,788
Posts18,515,920
Members74,017
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|