Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Your thoughts on "open carry"

I don't think so. You assert some really whacky views at times, but I believe everyone is aware that cops take care of their own. So do firefighters and politicians and any other cohesive professional group you could name. It's that the job LEOs do impacts lives both positively and negatively in a very public manner; they're out there, in the open, for the most part ducks-on-a-pond-targets for the barbs of society. Society expects a great job from LEOs, crucifies them when they do not perform up to societal expectations, but does not reward a great job when delivered. Within 5 years on the job LEOs have, for the most part, only LEO friends. Its a very guarded sub-culture.

You certainly wouldn't have received one from this cop. Being from NH we thankfully don't have the killings (citizen and LEO) that other areas of the country do. That said I would put every ounce of effort I could into such an investigation for any citizen of my jurisdiction. If an LEO in my AO was killed, I would kick in the gates of Hell if that's what needed to be done just as any of us (members of the 'Fire) would for our families.

George

Thats how I feel about it also why give away your edge,If you were a black belt would you

wear that patch on your jacket and alert the punk that you will fight back?

Or just look like a 67 year old grey bearded geezer packing that will kick or shoot your

ass?

Bob

What "tactical advantage", or whatever you want to call it, is lost by carrying openly?

Because you would look like an old man(not much of a threat)taken lightly ,and that

might just give you the edge you need. And if taken too lightly(like old prey)then

you could show your teeth so to speak,and maybe disfuse the situation.

Remember its the old farts with little to loose that should be feared.

Bob

What do I think of Open Carry ? I think it's a poor tactic if you are intent upon protecting yourself from attack by humans.
I have no objections to such a practice, BTW. I mean, let's face it, we all "open carry" when we are hunting.
Don't tell me a human attacker won't attack if you are carrying openly. Does anyone remember the incident where a SE asian attacked and killed some armed hunters in the mid west some years ago ? These hunters were intent upon hunting and simply no idea they needed to defend themselves. Guns don't make you safe. YOU DO, if you are prepared to defend yourself. Weapons only make the job easier assuming you are better armed than they are and you aren't out numbered.
When I was recieved my law enforcement training, we were taught that most cops, back then, were killed with their own guns..... The figure was 80%.
During my career, as an LEO, I met lots of bad guys. I've had BG's try to beat me to death with my own club, I've had them try to run me down with vehicles, and I've had them try to ambush me, to shoot me when I entered a bussiness. Frankly, anyone a cop fights can disarm him and shoot him with his gun. One of my training officers had a bullet scar under his left eye and one in his neck. From his own gun, BTW. The guy that did it went beserk when my TO confronted him about driving with a suspended drver's license...... And he was not the only one, trust me. I can fill pages with stories like that.
Many of the guys I met who held up liquor stores knew they might face a gun and were prepared to deal with that possibility. Some weren't armed. They simply believed that they could disarm the attendant before he could get to his gun.
Some of the bugulars I arrested liked to hit occupied homes. They were also prepared to deal with armed homeowners. Often they were armed as well.
So don't even try to tell me that BG's won't use violence or will withdraw if faced with an open carry situation. Experienced BG's often have had guns pulled on them lots of times. Even by cops. It's common for BG's who set out to do crimes to get high on drugs or to be suffering from drug withdrawals. I confronted a guy at my front door one night with a gun because of this. He thought he could force his way in. When I pointed a gun at him, he wouldn't back down, BTW. Another common occurence with such people. Before I could shoot him, he remembered who he was dealing with.....
Carry openly, if you wish. I shall pray that you are safe while doing so.
BTW, almost no BG's bother to enjoy the wide open spaces, unless they stop by a road side camp ground and try to steal camping gear. For instances, rapes in the back country are almnost unknown. I know of only one in my area in the last ten years. In downtown Sacramento, they are common. E

I open carried when I lived in AZ years ago. I also have carried concealed.

I think open carry makes for a more polite and respectfull society.

There was a thread here on the Campfire about three months ago of a criminal following a person open carrying into a gas station taking his weapon and killing him with it. Two more sources? You can go into any prison and speak with some inmates, ask them their take on it.

So by making myself look like an easy target I'm giving myself an edge? In what kind of situation does that work?

And you admit that "showing my teeth" might diffuse a situation. But showing my teeth too soon has the opposite effect? Exactly when is the exactly right moment to show my teeth?

An old fart with nothing to lose is the same with or without open carry.

I'm not set in my ways on either side of the argument. I open carry 4 days a week in the hood and concealed carry the other 3 days in the burbs. So I'm ripe for convincing. But the arguments used by some here just don't hold water.

I've watched several hours of footage on numerous occasions showing inmates in a California Penal Institution practicing disarming a LEO from the "spread 'em" position. Criminals do practice getting a firearm from someone else's holster. Second, the "shoot me first" scenario makes perfect sense. If a bad guy is armed, and intent on robbing a store, or a person, the first thing they worry about is...themselves. So, they usually pick the weakest looking victim, or store, and rely on surprise and violence to secure whatever they are after. If a criminal comes through the door of a stop-n-rob, gun drawn, and sees you with your firearm strapped to your hip, he has a decision to make; back out and try again later, or, shoot you to neutralize the most obvious threat to his safety and proceed robbing the store.

I've seen those videos too and it's a fairly specific skillset that wouldn't apply to civilians who aren't putting bad guys spread eagle on a wall. But the idea of someone taking your exposed pistol is noted.

And I agree that the "shoot me first" scenario makes sense IF that's how bad guys think. I disagree that it is, for the most part, and in my experience.

If a bad guy thinks through a robbery he'll scope the place out, see the guy open carrying, and care enough about himself to wait for or find a softer target.

If a bad guy isn't thinking through the robbery he'll be freaking out, have tunnel vision, and never notice a guy open carrying over by the snicker-doodles.

Based on my experience in dealing with bad guys I just don't think that stopping for a Coke while open carrying necessarily makes you a bullet magnet.

Like these guys for example.



[video:youtube]http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=related&v=pa-wfOo36qY[/video]

Obviously not all bad guys will act like that, but the point remains. Those bad guys didn't even notice a UNIFORMED COP in the store. Much less a regular dude with a Glock 27 on his side.

Bad guys are generally stupid. And they suffer from the effects of adrenalin the same as everyone else (tunnel vision, etc.). And they spend a large amount of time intoxicated to one degree or another.

If you choose to conceal or carry openly more power to you. But let your decisions be made based on the odds of what actually will happen, not what you've heard might maybe happen on the interwebs.

Those were awesome.

Your thinking on this matter comports most with my best judgement just based on human nature.

I suppose our experiences with bad guys differ then, as will our conclusions of the ramifications of open carry; we'll just have to agree to disagree.

One of the things I learned on the street is never give the other guy anything he can use against you. When he sees anyone armed, he knows who he must deal with and how. You, on the other hand, don't know he's armed or intends to do bad things until he makes his move. Once he does, you are trying to play catch up.
LAPD, who has the best survival rate of all the big city police departments, world wide, made an extensive study once as to what factors come into play that detemine the outcome of a gun fight.
The only significant factor was the guy that fired first, won 50% of the gunfights. The only other factor at all was the guy that shot his gun dry first tended to loose.
You don't "give away the fight" by telling the other guy beforehand what he's up against. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. E

I've do the best I can to be mentally and physically prepared for a gunfight. But I also refuse to live my life in condition black. Stress related illness kills far more cops than bullets do.

I'll stay prepared for what I know will happen, what will probably happen, and what might happen. For all the things rest that COULD happen, I'll trust in my training and the good lord above.

While one can argue that the stresses of being a cop kill far more of them than bullets do, but the two issues are not related.
Second, those of us that have lived that way have learned that one doesn't have to go around "on edge," or "ready for that ligntnig draw," to win the day in a shootout.
What you do is follow certain good habits. I always sit where I can watch the door(s), for instance. Unless I simply have no choice. I pay attention to the people around me. Those that are relaxed and having a good time are of no concern. Those that are tense and watchful are another matter.
If they are a potential threat, don't pay alot of attention to what they say. Watch what they do instead. Watch what their friends are doing. Above all, watch their hands. This is what Jeff Cooper used to call situation awareness. It isn't nearly as hard to do as many think. The hard part is adopting the proper habits and making sure you follow them. Above all, listen to your inner voice telling you something is wrong. That has been called the Gift of Fear in the book by the same name. Was written, BTW, by a guy who is opposed to private gun ownership. But it does accurately describe how to handle, use and react to danger. E

A LEO should never be in condition black (frozen with panic). However, unless in your easy chair, eating cheese doodles and scratching your nuts, you should never be in condition white, or totally relaxed and oblivious. I think most LEOs live in condition yellow, remaining situationally aware, even at home, but especially on the job. An LEO that is in condition white or black, on the job, is a liability to himself and those that depend on him for back up.