|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,752 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,752 Likes: 4 |
Let me ask you guys one question:
What takes place if Putin says...."If you strike Syria....you're striking Russia!"
Russia ain't 'done' yet!! We can play hypothetical games all day long, but right now I find this one irrelevant because we have no business striking Syria to begin with..... "we have no business striking Syria to begin with....." Agreed! You know that...and I know that...as well as the majority of folks on this board whom have intellect enough to understand the seriousness of this situation, however it's quite apparent that our 'masters' in the US Congress don't have a scintilla of a clue as to where this could be headed!! As far as my question not being relevant I think it is highly so for I trust Putin to honor his word much moreso than that of Obama!! For years on end it has been the effort of the US government to live in peace with the Russian people....to 'befriend' them as the saying goes and in times past we have seen improvements in relations between the two countries made at certain times. We began to see this under their leadership of Mikhail Gorbachev with a softening of rhetoric betwix our countries. Now...the IDIOT that sits in the White House, for all practical purposes has taken a big dump on what could be called a 'silent pact' between our countries to have an agreement of 'live and let live'!! In effect Obama is doing a damn great job of letting his alligator mouth overload his hummingbird azz and in the process making the USA into an aggressor nation!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,928
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,928 |
Well, you won Penquin over, but how hard is that? ======== You're somewhat like that one crazy, drunk assed uncle at weddings. You stuck your head in that egg and the lid fell on you, didn't it?
All American
All the time
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 201
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 201 |
Well said Bob! Agree to disagree.
I've been watching the Syria situation closely over the past couple weeks having spent last summer in Jordan (2012) and even e-mailed my Congressman and Senators with my opinion. This is really about more than just using chemical weapons on children though. It's about leverage. Obama has proven time and again he is no friend to Israel. A true politian, he is telling the world, "Assad is bad. I support my allies", while at the same time he knows by sending it through Congress for vote it is win-win for him. When the Senate (I am hoping) votes the measure down, Obama has essentially given Israel a GFY, which I really think was his intent all along. If, God help us, they vote for this so called limited action, the whole world is screwed.
Brush up on your Mandarin boys, cause with our current debt problems within our borders, our new national language with be that or Russian. What funds we do have now, will go to supporting generations of Syrians. I am by no means a pacificist, but this is a volitile situation that is a lose lose for Americans no matter how you cut it.
I also have to agree with the
"Travis in 2016" declaration above, but 2014 is an election year too, isn't it? Why wait?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 16,740
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 16,740 |
Wasn�t that all part of the plan though? If the Jews had refused to play their part and hadn�t killed Jesus, that might have thrown a wrench in the deal no?
The Jews shoulda let Jesus off with a written reprimand. That would have made the Bible a short book. Of COURSE it was God's Plan. It was supposed to happen.
A government is the most dangerous threat to man�s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
I get it that you believe there is a moral imperative for the U.S. to do SOMETHING in response to the reported use of CW in Syria by SOMEBODY.
There is at least a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the Assad regime for the latest attack.
Did the likely effectiveness of the response, and appropriateness of the target enter your thinking in arriving at your position?
Or do you subscribe to "Do what appears right and leave the result up to fate, God, or Karma?
You are usually a stickler for "evidence", but you seem to be operating more on emotion in this instance.
Just a little puzzling even though it actually is none of my business.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864 |
No offense taken amigo. You know full well that I welcome you to speak your mind with me. I respect your character.
Trust me, I'll be happy to get out of this industry. Actually I'm unemployed at the moment and looking at more stable commercial work if I can find it.
I replied to his question in context to the discussion that he and I were having on here. In the scope of that context I still find it irrelevant.
In the more broad scope of things that are possible to happen if Obama continues in the direction he's taking us then I'd agree that it's a very relevant question but outside of the scope of the conversation we were having at the time.
I try to remain in the world of reality and that is why I maintain that we don't belong in Syria.
My friend Bob, makes a very good argument based more in emotion than reality. Emotionally I stand with him. Chemical weapons are a scourge and ought to be routed wherever they are found. The reality is that they have been a part of the battle field since the dawn of warfare. They have always been here and they always will be. It's a grotesque reality.
If we had a leadership that we could trust to make a honest concerted effort to make the mission truly about destroying chemical WMD's then maybe I could be convinced that we should go get them.
The reality is that we don't have such a leadership. That would never be the mission. Operation Save The Babies is a pipe dream, not reality. No matter how much we wish it was otherwise.
Mulhern does make one point that goes to reinforce my own. America at large isn't interested in saving the innocent lives killed by the millions every year here in our own Country. Why would anyone believe that our leaders would care about babies elsewhere?
The truth is if we go to war its because Obama had an ego bigger than the planet.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864 |
Agreed.
It was just outside the scope of the previous posts was all.
Your concerns are shared with me.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
I get it that you believe there is a moral imperative for the U.S. to do SOMETHING in response to the reported use of CW in Syria by SOMEBODY.
There is at least a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the Assad regime for the latest attack.
Did the likely effectiveness of the response, and appropriateness of the target enter your thinking in arriving at your position?
Or do you subscribe to "Do what appears right and leave the result up to fate, God, or Karma?
You are usually a stickler for "evidence", but you seem to be operating more on emotion in this instance.
Just a little puzzling even though it actually is none of my business. Bravo ! GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
All things said, taking out babies and other innocents with chemical gases will never be condoned by me, regardless of the dems or GOP in power at the time. Now, it's happening and being left unchecked...and it will continue.
As I've stated before and again thereafter...take them out,regardless of who possesses the cowardly weapons. My friends, and my antagonists here, are incapable of changing my position.
Your argument is flawed and I'll tell you why. Kids getting shot, nuked, raped, sold as slaves only to be sodomized and beaten to death, is all "abhorrent." Has not warranted our intervening in many, many places, and for a long, long time. To view things as subjectively as you are, is inherently wrong. If one observes the totality of the circumstances they will see our country is not in the best of shape. Our leadership is horrendous. Our military is strained. Our citizens are sick and [bleep] tired of the middle east. An objective view of the big picture? The answer would be: [bleep], and no. The Joint Chief seems to agree with me and President Obama does not. Big clue there... Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,168
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,168 |
Well said Bob! Agree to disagree.
I've been watching the Syria situation closely over the past couple weeks having spent last summer in Jordan (2012) and even e-mailed my Congressman and Senators with my opinion. This is really about more than just using chemical weapons on children though. It's about leverage. Obama has proven time and again he is no friend to Israel. A true politian, he is telling the world, "Assad is bad. I support my allies", while at the same time he knows by sending it through Congress for vote it is win-win for him. When the Senate (I am hoping) votes the measure down, Obama has essentially given Israel a GFY, which I really think was his intent all along. If, God help us, they vote for this so called limited action, the whole world is screwed.
Brush up on your Mandarin boys, cause with our current debt problems within our borders, our new national language with be that or Russian. What funds we do have now, will go to supporting generations of Syrians. I am by no means a pacificist, but this is a volitile situation that is a lose lose for Americans no matter how you cut it.
I also have to agree with the
"Travis in 2016" declaration above, but 2014 is an election year too, isn't it? Why wait? Whats Syrian food like anyway? 2M refugees and growing, surely 250,000 sprinkled here and there throughout the US wont make a difference. I wonder how many Israel will be taking in?
"Knowledge is good" � Emil Faber
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
49 years after the Gulf of Tonkin incident and we didn't learn a dang thing. We don't really know who gassed those people. The Russians say the rebels did it. The Russians told us the Boston bomber was a terrorist and we didn't listen. They are going to let us step into schitt and then point out we were told the truth and refused to listen. We screwed the Russians and they want pay back. We're going to do it all to ourselves. If we get involved and screw the pooch the world will think less of us then if we wait for good intel. We did nothing when Saddam gassed the Kurds and Clinton let the chemical weapons slip into Syria.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
No offense taken amigo. You know full well that I welcome you to speak your mind with me. I respect your character.
Trust me, I'll be happy to get out of this industry. Actually I'm unemployed at the moment and looking at more stable commercial work if I can find it.
I replied to his question in context to the discussion that he and I were having on here. In the scope of that context I still find it irrelevant.
In the more broad scope of things that are possible to happen if Obama continues in the direction he's taking us then I'd agree that it's a very relevant question but outside of the scope of the conversation we were having at the time.
I try to remain in the world of reality and that is why I maintain that we don't belong in Syria.
My friend Bob, makes a very good argument based more in emotion than reality. Emotionally I stand with him. Chemical weapons are a scourge and ought to be routed wherever they are found. The reality is that they have been a part of the battle field since the dawn of warfare. They have always been here and they always will be. It's a grotesque reality.
If we had a leadership that we could trust to make a honest concerted effort to make the mission truly about destroying chemical WMD's then maybe I could be convinced that we should go get them.
The reality is that we don't have such a leadership. That would never be the mission. Operation Save The Babies is a pipe dream, not reality. No matter how much we wish it was otherwise.
Mulhern does make one point that goes to reinforce my own. America at large isn't interested in saving the innocent lives killed by the millions every year here in our own Country. Why would anyone believe that our leaders would care about babies elsewhere?
The truth is if we go to war its because Obama had an ego bigger than the planet.
Yup, and it got pretty grotesque a time or two. Firing "Filth" over besieged Castle Walls always struck me as such. ...re-reading "The white Company" ( thanks Ed) one wonders what real "Knights" thought about THAT. If these sonsabitches gave one sweet goddam about "National Interests", we'd be tracking down , and collecting the scalps of these bastids a LOT closer to home. Look SOUTH. GTC
Last edited by crossfireoops; 09/05/13.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Whats Syrian food like anyway? 2M refugees and growing, surely 250,000 sprinkled here and there throughout the US wont make a difference. I wonder how many Israel will be taking in?
Laughin' my ass off... Kinda... Christ knows we've grown a vagina, but does our president have to display it with this reckless abandon? Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864 |
No offense taken amigo. You know full well that I welcome you to speak your mind with me. I respect your character.
Trust me, I'll be happy to get out of this industry. Actually I'm unemployed at the moment and looking at more stable commercial work if I can find it.
I replied to his question in context to the discussion that he and I were having on here. In the scope of that context I still find it irrelevant.
In the more broad scope of things that are possible to happen if Obama continues in the direction he's taking us then I'd agree that it's a very relevant question but outside of the scope of the conversation we were having at the time.
I try to remain in the world of reality and that is why I maintain that we don't belong in Syria.
My friend Bob, makes a very good argument based more in emotion than reality. Emotionally I stand with him. Chemical weapons are a scourge and ought to be routed wherever they are found. The reality is that they have been a part of the battle field since the dawn of warfare. They have always been here and they always will be. It's a grotesque reality.
If we had a leadership that we could trust to make a honest concerted effort to make the mission truly about destroying chemical WMD's then maybe I could be convinced that we should go get them.
The reality is that we don't have such a leadership. That would never be the mission. Operation Save The Babies is a pipe dream, not reality. No matter how much we wish it was otherwise.
Mulhern does make one point that goes to reinforce my own. America at large isn't interested in saving the innocent lives killed by the millions every year here in our own Country. Why would anyone believe that our leaders would care about babies elsewhere?
The truth is if we go to war its because Obama had an ego bigger than the planet.
Yup, and it got pretty grotesque a time or two. Firing "Filth" over besieged Castle Walls always struck me as such. ...re-reading "The white Company" ( thanks Ed) one wonders what real "Knights" thought about THAT. If these sonsabitches gave one sweet goddam about "National Interests", we'd be tracking down , and collecting the scalps of these bastids a LOT closer to home. Look SOUTH. GTC Amen and Amen
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
To view things as subjectively as you are, is inherently wrong. =======
Subjectively is the norm. It has to be. It always has been.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
Whats Syrian food like anyway? 2M refugees and growing, surely 250,000 sprinkled here and there throughout the US wont make a difference. I wonder how many Israel will be taking in?
Laughin' my ass off... Kinda... Christ knows we've grown a vagina, but does our president have to display it with HIS MOUTH.? Travis Fixed it.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
It seems to me Greg that it's political emotion that has many discounting the ramifications of leaving it unchecked.
I am a fact guy. Kids are dying, miserable deaths, because of Sarin gas. Facts can be emotive. Many here have executed folks long before their trial. The wanton, reckless disbursement of gas to kill 427 young children is a disgust unworthy of one sentence of justification.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
It seems to me Greg that it's political emotion that has many discounting the ramifications of leaving it unchecked.
I am a fact guy. Kids are dying, miserable deaths, because of Sarin gas. Facts can be emotive. Many here have executed folks long before their trial. The wanton, reckless disbursement of gas to kill 427 young children is a disgust unworthy of one sentence of justification. http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/just-whose-war-is-this/
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
|
OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
I'm sure you'll remain content in your confusion. Apples and oranges.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 16,740
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 16,740 |
It seems to me Greg that it's political emotion that has many discounting the ramifications of leaving it unchecked.
I am a fact guy. Kids are dying, miserable deaths, because of Sarin gas. Facts can be emotive. Many here have executed folks long before their trial. The wanton, reckless disbursement of gas to kill 427 young children is a disgust unworthy of one sentence of justification. I am as yet unconvinced the Assad regime used it, the rebels have been caught smuggling it and there is video of the rebels lobbing canisters at something. I think Al Quida is playing us.
Last edited by shreck; 09/05/13. Reason: oops
A government is the most dangerous threat to man�s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
|
|
|
|
546 members (22kHornet, 25aught6, 280ACKIMP, 222ND, 270wsmnutt, 10Glocks, 59 invisible),
2,564
guests, and
1,273
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,380
Posts18,527,505
Members74,031
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|