We're trying to prevent illegals from entering the U.S. but allow "Humane Water Stations" to be put up.
Why do we allow this...? From and offical Department of Interior document:
"[b]Why does the refuge need to allow water stations on the Refuge?
In the past eight years, 25 people are known to have died on refuge lands due to dehydration or exposure while trying to cross the desert, where temperatures average in the mid-90s during the summer months. While the number of deaths on the refuge has been steadily declining from six deaths in 2006 to two in 2009, the Service recognizes that every death that can be prevented should be prevented.
Well BOO PHOOKIN HOO....! Maybe we should place free ammo tables in banks so when crimals run out of bullets, we can help them commit their crime.
Who is in charge of this circus. The inmates are running the asylum...
We're trying to prevent illegals from entering the U.S. but allow "Humane Water Stations" to be put up.
Why do we allow this...? From and offical Department of Interior document:
"[b]Why does the refuge need to allow water stations on the Refuge?
In the past eight years, 25 people are known to have died on refuge lands due to dehydration or exposure while trying to cross the desert, where temperatures average in the mid-90s during the summer months. While the number of deaths on the refuge has been steadily declining from six deaths in 2006 to two in 2009, the Service recognizes that every death that can be prevented should be prevented.
Well BOO PHOOKIN HOO....! Maybe we should place free ammo tables in banks so when crimals run out of bullets, we can help them commit their crime.
Who is in charge of this circus. The inmates are running the asylum...
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
You don't see this as a way of saying it's okay to do what they are doing?
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
...Bleeding Heart.....
Would you walk across the desert with no water...?
Would you walk across the desert with properly positioned water breaks..?
Take away the incentive and you fix some of the problem. IMO, there's really no way to argue FOR leaving the water out there.
I wish someone would sneak in there and fill em up with saltwater..!
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
The way I understand it there is that for those ranchers doing this, providing water is far preferable to coming across the wretched remains of people dead of dehydration.
especially children,had a buddy working on a oil rig on the king ranch. they had a group of wets come up to the rig looking for water. the wets had a toddler that was traveling with them killed and eaten by coyotes the day before
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
You don't see this as a way of saying it's okay to do what they are doing?
No, I don't. Illegal immigration is a crime, but last time I looked it doesn't carry the death penalty. I also would think the water stations would be a great place for La Migra to blind up and wait on business to come to them.
Where I hunt south of Sonora and 70 miles north of the river people leave bottled water, food and toilet paper stashes in their remote sheds and barns and leave them open. Less damage that way. These are ranchers with no love for wets, but they are also human.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
...Bleeding Heart.....
Would you walk across the desert with no water...?
Would you walk across the desert with properly positioned water breaks..?
Take away the incentive and you fix some of the problem. IMO, there's really no way to argue FOR leaving the water out there.
I wish someone would sneak in there and fill em up with saltwater..!
That would be a good way to get shot. By the ranchers who built many of those water tanks to keep their cattle alive.
Poisoning a man's stock, or a thirsty traveler......good way to get on several "hit lists".
We're trying to prevent illegals from entering the U.S. but allow "Humane Water Stations" to be put up.
Why do we allow this...? From and offical Department of Interior document:
"[b]Why does the refuge need to allow water stations on the Refuge?
In the past eight years, 25 people are known to have died on refuge lands due to dehydration or exposure while trying to cross the desert, where temperatures average in the mid-90s during the summer months. While the number of deaths on the refuge has been steadily declining from six deaths in 2006 to two in 2009, the Service recognizes that every death that can be prevented should be prevented.
Well BOO PHOOKIN HOO....! Maybe we should place free ammo tables in banks so when crimals run out of bullets, we can help them commit their crime.
Who is in charge of this circus. The inmates are running the asylum...
There was a "person" (in name only) that I used to work with. His comments about what went on at the SuperDome after Katrina made me think he was the biggest, stupidest a##hole to be born in the 20th Century. Until I read this post of yours. Chris
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
...Bleeding Heart.....
Would you walk across the desert with no water...?
Would you walk across the desert with properly positioned water breaks..?
Take away the incentive and you fix some of the problem. IMO, there's really no way to argue FOR leaving the water out there.
I wish someone would sneak in there and fill em up with saltwater..!
That would be a good way to get shot. By the ranchers who built many of those water tanks to keep their cattle alive.
Poisoning a man's stock, or a thirsty traveler......good way to get on several "hit lists".
yep, poisoning or interfering with a water supply on somebody else's property in the desert would rate down with spreading caltrops and blastin water holes. If'n you got caught, you'd get dead, pronto....by either side.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
You don't see this as a way of saying it's okay to do what they are doing?
No, I don't. Illegal immigration is a crime, but last time I looked it doesn't carry the death penalty. I also would think the water stations would be a great place for La Migra to blind up and wait on business to come to them.
Where I hunt south of Sonora and 70 miles north of the river people leave bottled water, food and toilet paper stashes in their remote sheds and barns and leave them open. Less damage that way. These are ranchers with no love for wets, but they are also human.
Gee Steve, do you think we are that gullible? "La Migra" won't set up on waterholes. To do so would discourage the wets from using them. They would avoid them, even if it meant risking dying of thirst. That wouldn't be very humanitarian now, would it?
Nope, the wets will keep coming, and we won't harass them at the water stations. The pro-immigration Republicans (know any, Steve?) will tell the decidedly anti-immigration public that they "feel their pain" (heard that before?) but that it is simply too inhumane to turn the wets away. And the tide will continue to flow....
I wonder if the Romans set up water stations for the Visigoths?
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
If they can't find a drink once they arrive on private land they'll break open irrigation lines. Then the rancher's pump runs and runs until he goes out looking for the break to repair it. Time consuming and expensive.
If the gov't isn't going to do their job, and you're likely to be shot at trying to do it for them, it's cheaper and much more sane to provide water. The life the rancher saves may be his own.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
You don't see this as a way of saying it's okay to do what they are doing?
No, I don't. Illegal immigration is a crime, but last time I looked it doesn't carry the death penalty. I also would think the water stations would be a great place for La Migra to blind up and wait on business to come to them.
Where I hunt south of Sonora and 70 miles north of the river people leave bottled water, food and toilet paper stashes in their remote sheds and barns and leave them open. Less damage that way. These are ranchers with no love for wets, but they are also human.
Steve,
I'm fully aware of the folks leaving their stuff unlocked and stashing supplies to avoid the break-ins. I've hunted in and around west central Texas pretty much my whole life. Brother is guiding on a ranch right now a touch NE of Sanderson. Was over there 2 weekends ago. It's the wild, wild west over there for sure.
Setting up water and supply stations in a high profile way such as this only provides incentive to keep doing it and to keep doing it in areas that may not have fresh water to begin with, which is the whole reason for stashing the water to begin with. Sure makes the folks trying to secure our borders jobs much more difficult.
I'm not an unreasonable, unhumane person. If I did happen to come across folks in a bad way of course I would give them some food/water/medical attention, etc. But to almost encourage them and giving them life sustaining water in a place that obviously doesn't have any to begin with just makes securing the border much more difficult.
Setting water stations up for the sole intent of catching them is another story. But how long would word get out that it is watched 24/7? Maybe a day?
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
Makes two of us Sir.
Three now!
Make it four, nice to know there are some reasonable human beings that know the difference between disagreeing with illegal activity and recognizing people from other places that speak a different language and have different colored skin are also humans created in the image of God just like the rest of us in this world.
once again, the "system" is aiding and abetting the invasion of illegal aliens.
would i help a fallen fellow human being? of course. we all would.
but to knowingly allow organized watering stations to exist just shows how two-minded our elected ldrshp really is. the illegals know this, and piggy back from the watering stations on into mainstream culture where they pick up additional bennies at the expense of us taxpayers.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
...Bleeding Heart.....
Would you walk across the desert with no water...?
Would you walk across the desert with properly positioned water breaks..?
Take away the incentive and you fix some of the problem. IMO, there's really no way to argue FOR leaving the water out there.
I wish someone would sneak in there and fill em up with saltwater..!
I smell a complete idiot,.... I'd avoid this sorta' behavior in Cochise County, were I you.
"Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.".......absolutely, and + 1000
once again, the "system" is aiding and abetting the invasion of illegal aliens.
would i help a fallen fellow human being? of course. we all would.
but to knowingly allow organized watering stations to exist just shows how two-minded our elected ldrshp really is. the illegals know this, and piggy back from the watering stations on into mainstream culture where they pick up additional bennies at the expense of us taxpayers.
It's not the fault of the people giving them a drink of water. As you say, "the system". That's what needs changing.
Build a wall. Send them home. Let them get in line and do it legally.
The wall might cost a few billion. Rounding them up and bussing home another few. But it'll save billions and billions almost overnight. The country just can't afford any other plan right now. The liberals and the McAmnesty's of the world are going to have to sit down and shut up.
You know, I'm not talking about providing succur to the Dope Runners here,....I'm talking about poor people in DISTRESS,....oftimes with the children amongst em' suffering the worst.
Water stations are not a problem in Tx as far as I can tell , since most all the land has some livestock action and therefore has water available .
We will be heading down SW of Sanderson in about ten days for the MD season and it's almost a certainty that our camphouse will have been occupied several times since we left last year .Likely to have a buch of wets come thru while we are there - just like last year .
We still can't get a clear answer from Law Enforcement about what we can legally do when we find trespassers who are not citizens .
The S.O.dispatcher [ female ] at Sanderson told me last year when I asked her the question ;
"I'm not sure , but I don't think you are supposed to shoot 'em! "
She was serious .
We will check all the windmills for tracks every time we go around one to get an idea of the number and type of intruders . We will feed 'em and send them on their way since mostly we get "Juan and Maria " types at our place . No coyotes involved and drug smuggling is not done by foot couriers - the country is just too rough .
That would be a good way to get shot. By the ranchers who built many of those water tanks to keep their cattle alive.
Poisoning a man's stock, or a thirsty traveler......good way to get on several "hit lists".
I'm not talking about putting saltwater in the cattle tanks or poisoning anyone's stock..!
I'm talking about putting saltwater in these damn illegal alien canteens like the one shown below on our National Wildlife Refuge land..!
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
I smell a complete idiot,.... I'd avoid this sorta' behavior in Cochise County, were I you.
"Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.".......absolutely, and + 1000
We water em' while calling BP.
That's pretty simple, No ?
GTC
Thank you,..glad to know I'm a Complete Idiot because I want to cut down on servicing illegals...!
How can you be in favor of a border security, and then want to give them a drink if they circumvent our security..? That makes no sense, you can't have it both ways.!
Originally Posted by chris112
There was a "person" (in name only) that I used to work with. His comments about what went on at the SuperDome after Katrina made me think he was the biggest, stupidest a##hole to be born in the 20th Century. Until I read this post of yours. Chris
Well come on down to Oklahoma Chris and bring a cattle trailer with you. Since you love em so much and want to help, you can load up a bunch of em and take them back to South Dakota, and then you can take care of em on your dollar..! Heck,..we'll swing by Oklahoma City and pick you up some real nice "South-Side Locos" complete with bandanas and illegal guns. Then you can get a warm fuzzy feeling about helping your fellow man.!
Personally, I'll hang on to my dollars and take care of my family.
That would be a good way to get shot. By the ranchers who built many of those water tanks to keep their cattle alive.
Poisoning a man's stock, or a thirsty traveler......good way to get on several "hit lists".
I'm not talking about putting saltwater in the cattle tanks or poisoning anyone's stock..!
I'm talking about putting saltwater in these damn illegal alien canteens like the one shown below on our National Wildlife Refuge land..!
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
I smell a complete idiot,.... I'd avoid this sorta' behavior in Cochise County, were I you.
"Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.".......absolutely, and + 1000
We water em' while calling BP.
That's pretty simple, No ?
GTC
Thank you,..glad to know I'm a Complete Idiot because I want to cut down on servicing illegals...!
How can you be in favor of a border security, and then want to give them a drink if they circumvent our security..? That makes no sense, you can't have it both ways.!
Originally Posted by chris112
There was a "person" (in name only) that I used to work with. His comments about what went on at the SuperDome after Katrina made me think he was the biggest, stupidest a##hole to be born in the 20th Century. Until I read this post of yours. Chris
Well come on down to Oklahoma Chris and bring a cattle trailer with you. Since you love em so much and want to help, you can load up a bunch of em and take them back to South Dakota, and then you can take care of em on your dollar..! Heck,..we'll swing by Oklahoma City and pick you up some real nice "South-Side Locos" complete with bandanas and illegal guns. Then you can get a warm fuzzy feeling about helping your fellow man.!
Personally, I'll hang on to my dollars and take care of my family.
Go ahead and put salt water in those tanks. Do it personally, as in yourself; YOU put the salt water in those tanks.
WHEN someone dies from that, YOU will be arrested, tried, and convicted of murder.
cur dog, we had a lease down there below Sanderson probably twenty years ago that had the old stage road running through it....wagon ruts from a hundred year ago and tumble down adobe stations, and old insulators on mesquite trees from the old telegraph line. place was always crawling with wets....they would use that old stage road as a safe guide line way off the highway.
La Migra was always dragging the roads with a railroad tie to smooth them out and then come check for tracks in the morning.
Go ahead and put salt water in those tanks. Do it personally, as in yourself; YOU put the salt water in those tanks.
WHEN someone dies from that, YOU will be arrested, tried, and convicted of murder.
And, rightfully so.
Now I'm going to be Arrested, Tried and Convicted of Murder for making it difficult to stay in this country ILLEGALLY..!
Shame on me..!
I guess we're gonna have to agree that there's a difference of opinion on this one.
Since you're so happy to give these folks some water, I guess you wouldn't mind going and helping some of the ranchers clean up the filth that the illegals leave around these watering holes...? I'm sure you'll catch the first bus....
Go ahead and put salt water in those tanks. Do it personally, as in yourself; YOU put the salt water in those tanks.
WHEN someone dies from that, YOU will be arrested, tried, and convicted of murder.
And, rightfully so.
Now I'm going to be Arrested, Tried and Convicted of Murder for making it difficult to stay in this country ILLEGALLY..!
Shame on me..!
I guess we're gonna have to agree that there's a difference of opinion on this one.
Since you're so happy to give these folks some water, I guess you wouldn't mind going and helping some of the ranchers clean up the filth that the illegals leave around these watering holes...? I'm sure you'll catch the first bus....
No, idiot.
You'd be arrested, tried, and convicted for knowingly and maliciously tainting or tampering with drinking water, creating an "attractive nuisance" and recklessly endangering human life resulting in the death of another that you knew, or should have known, would be a likely result.
The pics and "illegally here" defense, is weak, and wouldn't fly.
Besides, you'd have no way of knowing whether the person who might drink that poisoned water would be legal or illegal.
You could just as easily poison and kill a tourist, a ranger, or a lost hiker as any "illegal", and the result (to you) would still be same.
Nice try with the red herring, though.
And, if you'd pull your cranial device from your rectal orifice, you'd recognize that I'm damned sure not an opponent of stopping illegal invasion/immigration.
I just am not got to advocate poisoning water tanks and likely wantonly and recklessly killing people to do it.
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
Count me in this group, illegal and need to be sent back of course. They are still human beings.
Well, lets see. I have actually been on the buenos aires national wildlife center. Not many have on this website have. You ain't gonna go there now, most of it's off limits for various reasons, mostly due to the danger. I have actually been up close and personal to those blue water tanks, and in fact i know of a couple about a mile or so from the main B.P. processing center near Douglas. Unlike most, here, I also have seen the crud in the desert many many times, hey, it's my back yard. Do I condone or approve of what's happening on the borders, no.
Do I carry spare gallons of water in my vehicle when prowling the desert? You would be a fool not to. Would I deny water to a thirsy person? Have you ever been dehydrated on the desert? I have. Only a person lower than a skunk would deny water to any living being, animals included. Have I ever ran accross bunches of illegals in the desert? Contrary to most on this board I have, and have suffered personal loss of property in the thousands of dollars to illegals. Withholding water or tampering with it in a place like arizona would be about the worst crime i think you could commit. another thing, and not wanting to put words in the mouths of other posters in arizona on this board, a few come to mind, most of us actually like mexicans/hispanics/culture/food/etc. and the issue is not with the people, it's more with the governments plural that create this situation. I would dang sure and do feel more comfortable in the culture of the southwest than i ever did among the yankees.
This thread is a perfect example of the liberal schizophrenia that infects the country.
On the one hand, you have people screaming at the top of their lungs about the evils of illegal immigration. On the other hand, you have those very same people saying how you have to make sure that the illegal invaders are able to do their illegal invading safely.
If that's your play, carry on. Mighty "christian" of you, and I'd not want to stand that Judgment.
YMMV...
See, that's your problem. You don't know schitt from shinola about me or anything else and yet you spout off stupid schitt about how bad it is that we are over run with illegals. Then on the other hand you criticize anything that would actually fix the situation.
There isn't anything "unchristian" about defending your country.
Let's hear the VAnimrod plan for stopping the invasion.
As for my plan:
Start with a real damned fence. Actually, three layers of fence. 15' with 10' on either side of that, about 10 meters apart. Towers, sentries, etc.
Give them 6 mos to GTFO, after that, the gates close.
After that, anyone here without a legitimate reason (legal immigrants, citizens, students, etc., count as legitimate), i.e. illegals, are rounded up and sent back to their country of origin. Permanently. No chance for re-entry as legal immigrants. Any currently in prison here are on the first planes back; get rid of them.
Those that wish to immigrate to here fill out the papers at the border, get issued a card and held there for 30 days while record checks, fingerprints, etc., are run. If it's clean, and after they've been checked out for diseases, etc., they are allowed entry on a provisional basis. Much like probation: they get a PIO (provisional immigration officer) with whom they have to check in.
Any serious legal infraction (speeding tickets, parking tickets, etc., don't count) equal deportation and a bar to re-entry.
That's for starters, and notice, not a single poisoned water station necessary.
If that's your play, carry on. Mighty "christian" of you, and I'd not want to stand that Judgment.
YMMV...
See, that's your problem. You don't know schitt from shinola about me or anything else and yet you spout off stupid schitt about how bad it is that we are over run with illegals.
There isn't anything "unchristian" about defending your country.
There's a helluva lot "not christian" about poisoning water supplies to wantonly kill anyone unfortunate enough to have to drink from it.
BTW - I answered the other part of your question, after you edited to add it. Nice try, though, Rambo.
Their all over the place on the Tohono O'odham Reservation. Set up by church and humanitarian groups out of Tucson mostly. Been going on for years....
Out my way it's a SUBSTANTIAL population of "Humanitarian" groups outta' Bisbee ( we call it Dizbee ),...and as well as running the Water station program,....they have a pretty well established "Safe House" network in play,.....the whole thing can get pretty damned muddy when one begins to try and figure whether the efforts are motivated by Spiritual Beliefs, Drugs, or Money.....and I'd have to say that it's a bizarre cocktail of the three.
If the CBP was stopping the influx ON AND AT the line, none of this would be much of a concern.
Let's hear the VAnimrod plan for stopping the invasion.
As for my plan:
...Towers, sentries, etc.
Give them 6 mos to GTFO, after that, the gates close.
After that, anyone here without a legitimate reason (legal immigrants, citizens, students, etc., count as legitimate), i.e. illegals, are rounded up and sent back to their country of origin. Permanently. No chance for re-entry as legal immigrants. Any currently in prison here are on the first planes back; get rid of them.
<Snip>
That's for starters, and notice, not a single poisoned water station necessary.
Indeed. I don't see any poisoned/drained water there. But, I do notice plenty of guns backing up the deportation orders and situated in those border towers. Of course, you will be behind one of those guns enforcing those orders, right?
Why do I get the feeling that you agree with me more than you don't, that you are just posturing to appear so holy?
(BTW, I can see & agree with reasons not to poison the water, and reasons not to drain stock tanks, but water especially placed for illegals has got to go.)
Let's hear the VAnimrod plan for stopping the invasion.
As for my plan:
...Towers, sentries, etc.
Give them 6 mos to GTFO, after that, the gates close.
After that, anyone here without a legitimate reason (legal immigrants, citizens, students, etc., count as legitimate), i.e. illegals, are rounded up and sent back to their country of origin. Permanently. No chance for re-entry as legal immigrants. Any currently in prison here are on the first planes back; get rid of them.
<Snip>
That's for starters, and notice, not a single poisoned water station necessary.
Indeed. I don't see any poisoned/drained water there. But, I do notice plenty of guns backing up the deportation orders and situated in those border towers. Of course, you will be behind one of those guns enforcing those orders, right?
Why do I get the feeling that you agree with me more than you don't, that you are just posturing to appear so holy?
(BTW, I can see & agree with reasons not to poison the water, and reasons not to drain stock tanks, but water especially placed for illegals has got to go.)
You were the one talking about, and supporting, the poisoning of water tanks.
If you'd simply said "remove the tanks", that'd be one helluva lot different, and on that, we'd agree.
I've seen them out on the 8 driving marked bt tall flags to where we hunt dove and quail. I usually dump my left over water into guzzlers in the area for wildlife and have considered bringing gallons of clorox to dump into these illegal watering holes.
That would be a good way to get shot. By the ranchers who built many of those water tanks to keep their cattle alive.
Poisoning a man's stock, or a thirsty traveler......good way to get on several "hit lists".
I'm not talking about putting saltwater in the cattle tanks or poisoning anyone's stock..!
I'm talking about putting saltwater in these damn illegal alien canteens like the one shown below on our National Wildlife Refuge land..!
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
I smell a complete idiot,.... I'd avoid this sorta' behavior in Cochise County, were I you.
"Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.".......absolutely, and + 1000
We water em' while calling BP.
That's pretty simple, No ?
GTC
Thank you,..glad to know I'm a Complete Idiot because I want to cut down on servicing illegals...!
How can you be in favor of a border security, and then want to give them a drink if they circumvent our security..? That makes no sense, you can't have it both ways.!
Originally Posted by chris112
There was a "person" (in name only) that I used to work with. His comments about what went on at the SuperDome after Katrina made me think he was the biggest, stupidest a##hole to be born in the 20th Century. Until I read this post of yours. Chris
Well come on down to Oklahoma Chris and bring a cattle trailer with you. Since you love em so much and want to help, you can load up a bunch of em and take them back to South Dakota, and then you can take care of em on your dollar..! Heck,..we'll swing by Oklahoma City and pick you up some real nice "South-Side Locos" complete with bandanas and illegal guns. Then you can get a warm fuzzy feeling about helping your fellow man.!
Personally, I'll hang on to my dollars and take care of my family.
Sounds like you have LOTS of "Work" to do right there close to home, buckaroo. Grim work, dealing with those downtown boys you're plagued with. Maybe this'll (song) help, cool you out a bit or something. Fer' cryin' out loud , we're having a bad enough time with bias,....folks calling us Nazis ( hell one idiot compared ME to Joe Stalin not long ago).....all this talk about tampering with water that somebody might NEED is not in any way contributory. Go back and read Ron's post,...he NAILED it.
The song above would pretty much typify an "Arizona Rancher/Outdoorsman's attitude, and obviously at odds with yours. I guess that in view of this dichotomy, You can just
My guess is that the cartels don't typically send mules carrying millions of dollars worth of drugs out into the desert without reliable guides and water. The "little people" trying to get across already spent $3000-$4000 on a coyote that will abandon them halfway, and it's not like they got outfitted from Cabelas anyway. Helluva way to come up and pick strawberries. I suspect that water sources like this are pretty well monitored, and if someone gets stuck there, they'll be riding the van back to INS in pretty short order.
Seen hispanics with two shopping carts in a cabella's stacked to the hilt with 9mm and .223 ammo. You think? have seen the same thing in local stores for magazines etc. I HAVE seen in local gas stations 4x4 trucks driven by hispanics loaded down with big water containers most likely going out to position in the desert. The narco's etc are not using these water stations, greg is right. Hell, they are probably using by mint nissan 4x4 if it's still running.
There was a "person" (in name only) that I used to work with. His comments about what went on at the SuperDome after Katrina made me think he was the biggest, stupidest a##hole to be born in the 20th Century. Until I read this post of yours. Chris
Well come on down to Oklahoma Chris and bring a cattle trailer with you. Since you love em so much and want to help, you can load up a bunch of em and take them back to South Dakota, and then you can take care of em on your dollar..! Heck,..we'll swing by Oklahoma City and pick you up some real nice "South-Side Locos" complete with bandanas and illegal guns. Then you can get a warm fuzzy feeling about helping your fellow man.!
Personally, I'll hang on to my dollars and take care of my family.
Didn't say I wanted any illegals getting into the US, I don't. And we need to get the ones that are here out. But only a big stupid a##hole would deny water to someone that could wind up died without it. And you are coming across as the biggest, stupidest a##hole born in the 20th century. Chris
As I understand it, even the most die hard anti-illegal residents of the area, including ranchers and land owners, would not deny water to a thirsty man, woman, or child crossing the dessert.
That is simply a matter of humanity.
Catch them all and send them back? yes.
Deny them a drink of water in the heat of the dessert? I could not do it.
There was a "person" (in name only) that I used to work with. His comments about what went on at the SuperDome after Katrina made me think he was the biggest, stupidest a##hole to be born in the 20th Century. Until I read this post of yours. Chris
Well come on down to Oklahoma Chris and bring a cattle trailer with you. Since you love em so much and want to help, you can load up a bunch of em and take them back to South Dakota, and then you can take care of em on your dollar..! Heck,..we'll swing by Oklahoma City and pick you up some real nice "South-Side Locos" complete with bandanas and illegal guns. Then you can get a warm fuzzy feeling about helping your fellow man.!
Personally, I'll hang on to my dollars and take care of my family.
Didn't say I wanted any illegals getting into the US, I don't. And we need to get the ones that are here out. But only a big stupid a##hole would deny water to someone that could wind up died without it. And you are coming across as the biggest, stupidest a##hole born in the 20th century. Chris
only a dumbphuck takes off across a desert without water.....they broke the law entering the country, dont see why they should be helped.....they dont want to die of thirst they can stay home in Mexico......
well i know a Canuck will pass up a water station cause if he stops it will mean it will take longer to get to the nearest bar.......
i have spent many trips into their natural habitat to observe them and their social rituals........i tend to be able to remember very lil of my time in Canada
Seems like that could be built for about half the cost... not much need for the fence, ditch, coiled wire on the US side... guessing the traffic trying to sneak into Mexico is pretty low...
wouldnt poison them.....might leave them out their empty....know if i came across one might be tempting long range target practice....
next thing you know we will be putting keg stations along the northern border to give the illegal Canucks aid in getting to civilization.........
It's just about time ,in this well meaning and very timely thread to point out that most everybody posting,...bellicose, Nazi, Stalinist, or humanitarian is,.... by and large, [bleep].
At least in this part of the world.
Even holing these "stations" with a long range rifle would endanger one's freedom.
The UNITED STATES BORDER PATROL protects the goddam things....
only a dumbphuck takes off across a desert without water.....they broke the law entering the country, dont see why they should be helped.....they dont want to die of thirst they can stay home in Mexico......
And what looks like enough water when you start can turn out to not be if you get stuck for a while. I don't want them here either but there is a big difference between not wanting them and letting them die of thirst.
only a dumbphuck takes off across a desert without water.....they broke the law entering the country, dont see why they should be helped.....they dont want to die of thirst they can stay home in Mexico......
And what looks like enough water when you start can turn out to not be if you get stuck for a while. I don't want them here either but there is a big difference between not wanting them and letting them die of thirst.
once again if they didnt cross the border they would not be in danger of dieing of thirst.....they made their choice they can live(or die) with it.....
only a dumbphuck takes off across a desert without water.....they broke the law entering the country, dont see why they should be helped.....they dont want to die of thirst they can stay home in Mexico......
And what looks like enough water when you start can turn out to not be if you get stuck for a while. I don't want them here either but there is a big difference between not wanting them and letting them die of thirst.
once again if they didnt cross the border they would not be in danger of dieing of thirst.....they made their choice they can live(or die) with it.....
Just for gits and shiggles,.....how many dead folks have you had turn up in a 100 mile radius of you place,....over the last coupla' year, rattler ?
I'm talking about REPORTING a cloud of vultures kinda' turnin' up,....and a few times just by SMELL !
i live in a place where the weather kills with surprising regularity.....ive helped rescue stranded ppl that werent bright enough to be prepared.....but when i leave town in winter im prepared to spend 24-48 hours in temps well below zero stranded along the road.....im smart enough to not become a statistic due to stupidity and ignoring obvious dangers.....
only a dumbphuck takes off across a desert without water.....they broke the law entering the country, dont see why they should be helped.....they dont want to die of thirst they can stay home in Mexico......
And what looks like enough water when you start can turn out to not be if you get stuck for a while. I don't want them here either but there is a big difference between not wanting them and letting them die of thirst.
once again if they didnt cross the border they would not be in danger of dieing of thirst.....they made their choice they can live(or die) with it.....
Just for gits and shiggles,.....how many dead folks have you had turn up in a 100 mile radius of you place,....over the last coupla' year, rattler ?
I'm talking about REPORTING a cloud of vultures kinda' turnin' up,....and a few times just by SMELL !
finding hard to get a read on you GTC, yah want something done bout the border but not willing to let the law breakers that cross deal with the reality of the terrain.....granted im a bit of a fatalist but still.....
It's NOT your damned Rifle Range where YOU are going to "Recreate" ,....and finding instead Corpses, and having to wade through filling out paperwork,.... Is it....?
I'm not "Wanting something done about the border", Mister I am [bleep] well DOING something about this mess,.....and have been for a LONG time.
..... denying lost people water, in a DESERT, is just flat WRONG.
Sorry, I'll never sign onto that, so, carry on, continue to have your hard read....
problem is i can only see the water stations as encouraging the crossing of the border.....i dont insist on self contained warming huts for the dumb [bleep] that decide to take a remote pass to save time on a road trip while not even bothering to take winter clothes with them when the weathers closing in and they were safe and warm where they were at.....build the huts and more dumb [bleep] will take the risk cause they think they have insurance against their stupidity up there if chit goes wrong.....
deny them water if yah come across them? no i wouldnt suggest that.....provide them insurance against pure stupidity? [bleep] no.....
Look,....can you even REMOTELY begin to grasp, or get a grip on the FACT that it's not Ron, It's NOT Kent, It's Not Enrique, and It's Not Tom, ....or ME putting the fuggin' water out there ?
It's "Volunteers",...and they are backed up and supported by the "HSA".
WTF are you BEEFING us Aridzonans about this,.....it's a FEDERAL issue.
all's anybody down here has said is that , once it's out there, don't screw with it.
and once again i say its a sign post saying cross the border....if you dont want them to cross the border dont help them make the decision to do it.....thats all im saying.....
I'd like to see one of these guys if given the chance denie someone dying of thirst a drink of water. it would take a person with a heart black as coal and no soul to do such a thing
and once again i say its a sign post saying cross the border....if you dont want them to cross the border dont help them make the decision to do it.....thats all im saying.....
And your thinking that completely REMOVING these water stations would slow the influx / invasion down one GODDAM bit just shows how far out of touch you are with what's actually going on here, Bud.
It MIGHT make things a bit more HORRIBLE,...it WON't make things any better.
but, to be taken advantage of is just oh so wrong. it's like vagrants going to Churches and asking for handouts and money to be used on who know's what expenditure.
we're being duped, in the name of humanitarian goodness.
the risk-takers need to understand the risks, or stay home. to help the needy is worthy, to be duped is to well, be taken advantage of by the perps.
the signs at the borderlines need to go up, and state there's no more potable water for "x" number of miles, travel at your own risk, and spell it out in Mexican, or Guatemalen, if the Mexicans allow the message.
so,...you had NO clue as to how many of these folks are completely illiterate ?
Hey,....[bleep] em' they were only dumb Campesinos anyway, right ?
No ,....actually,... dead [bleep]' WRONG !
GTC
maybe we can hire some multi-linguists and position them on the Mexican side of the border, and pay them by the head to warn the illegal aliens about the risks they are facing once they leave the safety of Mexico?
so,...you had NO clue as to how many of these folks are completely illiterate ?
Hey,....[bleep] em' they were only dumb Campesinos anyway, right ?
No ,....actually,... dead [bleep]' WRONG !
GTC
maybe we can hire some multi-linguists and position them on the Mexican side of the border, and pay them by the head to warn the illegal aliens about the risks they are facing once they leave the safety of Mexico?
well sorry if i cant figure out how building a safety net for those yah dont want crossing helps a damn thing.....
apparently there's an underlying current of sentiment that wants us to strike a deal with everyone from Here to the other side of the Panama Canal, for the US flag to be flown, high and proud, in exchange for education, economic development and democracy for the citzenry, some of which are illiterate?? would that approach appease anyone in particular??
the drug war you say, what about the drugs? we can legalize them, tax them, and control distribution as a State effort. instantly the gangs are out of business. and at very little cost, i might add.
just gotta find enough gov't school teachers to fill the newly created vacant slots, that's all.
so,...you had NO clue as to how many of these folks are completely illiterate ?
Hey,....[bleep] em' they were only dumb Campesinos anyway, right ?
No ,....actually,... dead [bleep]' WRONG !
GTC
maybe we can hire some multi-linguists and position them on the Mexican side of the border, and pay them by the head to warn the illegal aliens about the risks they are facing once they leave the safety of Mexico?
You Drank the Bong Water tonight, Gus ?
GTC
just following Orders, Bro. how about you, how do you come up with your versions of reality??
Look the whole "Idea" of going out and screwing around with these "Stations" is moot,.....and an invitation for handcuffs (best) or a damn Dirt Nap (worst)
a few venturesome types learned THAT a long time ago here locally.
We're a LONG way from "The Magic Kingdom" here.
Understand that what may be coming across as "Idealism" is tempered with a heavy soupcon of REALISM.
damn cross what you got from my posts was some how a b!tch bout you or what yah want done.....i know i [bleep] suck at writing but chit man i dont read that anywhere in my posts....i know and have always know the feds are the [bleep] problem here.....
i dont have a problem with tossing a thirsty guy, illegal or not, the jug of water i got in the back seat of the truck most the time if i come across them.....but [bleep] me if i can see the logic of building an oasis....never tried to claim it was your idea or any of that chit....its the whole idea of it that bugs me, if i wasnt clear on that im sorry....
For 1200 + miles , the "border" is the middle of the Rio Grande. You can't build the fence in the middle of the river and the land adjacent to the river is privately owned.Aside from that - even if the Feds confiscate the land to build the fence , even a twenty-year flood would destroy large sections of it .
Wildlife depend on the Rio for a water source , so fencing it off destroys their habitat .
There are places a fence will work , but it ain't the whole solution by a long shot .
Oh come on now ooops; in all honesty, how many stiffs have you tapped with the toe of your brogans out in the pucker brush around your hovel in Palominas?...Im betting not a one, but you paint a literary picture of you finding a festering meskin every other week. At least if extrapolated by your numbers of "hundreds"....you've only lived around thius border country for a dozen years. Ive lived here my whole life, and never crossed a single body, and I can promise you, I wander around the country more in a year, than you have ina dozen.
Oh come on now ooops; in all honesty, how many stiffs have you tapped with the toe of your brogans out in the pucker brush around your hovel in Palominas?...Im betting not a one, but you paint a literary picture of you finding a festering meskin every other week. At least if extrapolated by your numbers of "hundreds"....you've only lived around thius border country for a dozen years. Ive lived here my whole life, and never crossed a single body, and I can promise you, I wander around the country more in a year, than you have ina dozen.
well, you are a little wrong, he doesn't live in palominas. The sorry thing about palominas where i was a few months ago is that restaurant with the pies shout down. Regarding those blue water tanks, they aren't no oasis. A few years ago I took a guy i befriended, an iraqi marine, down along the fence and while doing that showed him one of the tanks. He was from kentucky, so not familar with the area etc. He said why didn't we just hole the tanks? I said no one, that would be a felony on several counts, and look at the observation cameras watching us. I am sure it is on video someplace our taking a leak over/through the barbwire fence into mexico. We then talked about it a little. I told him and he knew how i felt about illegal immigration, but i didn't want it on my soul to cause the potential harm to any human being over such a think as water. Again, you have to understand lack of water when its about 122 degrees out. A lot of these people don't understand the risk before crossing, they are lied to. And, they DO have people on the mexican side broadcasting the risks, but the message doesn't always get through. I might be a little off on this, but must from memory it's about 40miles give or take from sasabe to the statehigh going east/west. In cool weather unlike a lot of fat/aXX americans that is a nothing hike for a lot of mexicans. In July, you just can't carry enough water. I think at heart not arguing the politics of it, anyone that is cold hearted enough not to understand the idea of putting water out in that environment better have a conversation with their maker, that is if they believe in one. On another level, there are just some rules of the road in this area i have known since a child. Water is one of them, shut the gate if shut on the ranch, another. Only a sadist uses those mexican roules on a spur. No cussing in front of women. Judge a person by their character, not their skin or language. You get the idea.
Put the bottle down for just a minute ooops, slap your puffy jowls, shake your alcohol addled head, and see if you can answer the question honestly. It's a fairly simple one, how many bloated meskin bodies have you actually found....not heard about, not read in one of your famous cut-N-paste AP wire articles, but just overweight, swaggering drunk you?
[quote=JefeMojado]Put the bottle down for just a minute ooops, slap your puffy jowls, shake your alcohol addled head, and see if you can answer the question honestly. It's a fairly simple one, how many bloated meskin bodies have you actually found....not heard about, not read in one of your famous cut-N-paste AP wire articles, but just overweight, swaggering drunk you? [/quote
If Cross is overweight , who is the skinny old dude leaning up against the goat pen with a little kid ? Talkin' 'bout a picture he posted on a "grandkid thread" awhile back .
Y'all have some un-complimentary things to say to one another .Reckon y'all even know each other ?]
We have a section of the old stage road on our lease . Could be the same ranch . We've had it for about twelve or so years .
IIRC the place was about 14K acres....I didm't deal with the owner so I don't recall his name. Had a crappy cinderblock bunkhouse for the hunters. back then there was a kind of crazy old dog man in a separate house on the place who ran a pack of lion dogs all over south Texas, and trapped them, too. Had a fence around his house with a lion skull on top of every fence post....kind of creepy.
lots of big whitetails and spanish goats back then, but good Lord that place was dry.
Not the same place . Actually , the old road on our place was not a stage road . It was a wagon road that ran from Del Rio on to someplace NW , maybe Ft Davis .
Our ranch owner's SIL found some old records that showed 60k + goats shipped back in late 'thirties ! It was 86k acres back then . Part of it was sold off two years ago which reduced it to 66k acres now . We cut our hunters from 24 to 12 .
They run a few cattle now , but no goats . San Francisco Creek runs through our place but only has water in a very few places . It's running underground for most of its' length .
Put the bottle down for just a minute ooops, slap your puffy jowls, shake your alcohol addled head, and see if you can answer the question honestly
I've met Cross, been to his place. He weren't puffy, overweight, or drunk. Exceptionally capable in fact, with pactical skills in smithing, livestock and fireams on a scale most of us have collectively forgotten
Dead Illegals, I ain't found a one (but then I dont live on the Border either) not sure I'd keep score even if I did. Not too long ago the official tally was about 150 in a single year in the Del Rio sector. I believe they are down to about 10% of that now.
Haven't read all the posts, so this isn't directed at anyone.
For Arizonians, water is almost spiritual... actually it is spiritual. I don't know any Az'ians that would deny their worst enemy water, and it's actually an old law still in effect that you cannot deny someone drinking water.
I have personally given water to thirsty illegals out in the country as they were crossing and then called BP, though they have never showed up to do a pickup. I did my duty both ways.
People not from the desert may not understand, those of us that live, work, play and hunt in this environment have been thirsty a time or two hundred and it's not fun.
I don't think if you found some canucks in montana crossing illegally in a blizzard you would deny them a fire if you could build one and they couldn't or survival huts if a charity was allowed to supply them on federal land.
The water stations are 'allowed' to be put there by good Samaritans, at least that's how it has been done, no taxpayer money, might be different now. I myself would not build or maintain one but if someone else wants to, I will not criticize.
Water equals life and relief from terrible death in the desert, it's as simple as that.
Kent.....you may have missed it in a follow up to one of my earlier posts but i stated i would not hesitate to toss anyone that needs it the water jug that is usually in my truck, even an illegal....and i sure in the hell would not fault anyone else for doing so....no doubt death from thirst is a bad way to go, kinda like the bullchit that death from hypothermia is like falling asleep, painless, ive suffered frost bite and it hurts like a SOB, freezing aint a way i would choose to go if i had a choice....
my issue is with the idea of the water stations and not the stations themselves....especially if they are on federal land....to me they are a symptom of the problem and look to me to be a beacon that the US is ok with the border crossing....i realize they have jack chit to do with the real problem and hazards faced down there due to the fed refusing to do their job....cant like what i feel they symbolize and that i guess was my b!tch more than anything.....
If they were federally operated... I think they are still charity sponsored, could be wrong with the new administration... Anyway, if they are government operated I would have an issue with that aspect of it only.
I don't know how else to explain it... I think Ron, Tom, Greg would agree, though we all want responsible border security and immigration policies, believe it is paramount to our country's survival... Even with that, we would rather them make it to our cities and deal with them here in the suggestions we've proposed. Than have them die in the desert because of water.
Drug runners and such have their own routes predesignated, these water sources would mostly relate to DIY or abandoned crossers in an emergency.
I would take it a step further, possibly a lunch wagon situated next to the water stations, tacos de cabeza, carne asada and churos for the hungry hordes! Im sure these wayward travelers need not only water, but something to stick to their ribs as they make their journey north? Healthy immigrants, upon reaching their northern destinations, can hit the ground running; mowing your lawns, serving your meals and adult beverages, cleaning your soiled linens at the plush motel you love to stay at, and not burden our health care facilities and tax base because of starvation or dehydration.
Until the real issues of border lockdown and deportation, employer sanctions. We will have crossers through the open desert... that's a fact, wishing won't make it go away.
More and more it looks like you are full of bullchit. Kent
If they were federally operated... I think they are still charity sponsored, could be wrong with the new administration... Anyway, if they are government operated I would have an issue with that aspect of it only.
I don't know how else to explain it... I think Ron, Tom, Greg would agree, though we all want responsible border security and immigration policies, believe it is paramount to our country's survival... Even with that, we would rather them make it to our cities and deal with them here in the suggestions we've proposed. Than have them die in the desert because of water.
Drug runners and such have their own routes predesignated, these water sources would mostly relate to DIY or abandoned crossers in an emergency.
Kent
as i said when it gets broken down its the idea of the damn things and the message that i feel they send that bugs me much more than the actual stations being physically there....a symptom of the problem more than anything.....
Sure, I understand. I guess being that I've worked construction, hunted and spent a majority my time outdoors even in untenable heat for most. The fact that I have been stupid more than once and cut close the line of dehydration and heat stroke to the razor's edge, suffered because of my stupidity. Real thirst of another living creature, not just human, isn't a political or punishment chip to be played or even considered. There are much more important issues to fight for in this battle.
Sure, I understand. I guess being that I've worked construction, hunted and spent a majority my time outdoors even in untenable heat for most. The fact that I have been stupid more than once and cut close the line of dehydration and heat stroke to the razor's edge, suffered because of my stupidity. Real thirst of another living creature, not just human, isn't a political or punishment chip to be played or even considered. There are much more important issues to fight for in this battle.
Kent
and my frost bite experience is why it bugs me the ppl that take off without a care in the world to our winter weather.....any trip in winter is approached as an expedition with survival gear hauled along so that the wife and i could survive in the truck for 2 days if we need to stuck in a ditch.....also why i stop and check out cars in the ditch to make sure someone aint hunkered down trying to survive whenits cold....
Sure, I understand. I guess being that I've worked construction, hunted and spent a majority my time outdoors even in untenable heat for most. The fact that I have been stupid more than once and cut close the line of dehydration and heat stroke to the razor's edge, suffered because of my stupidity. Real thirst of another living creature, not just human, isn't a political or punishment chip to be played or even considered. There are much more important issues to fight for in this battle.
Kent
and my frost bite experience is why it bugs me the ppl that take off without a care in the world to our winter weather.....any trip in winter is approached as an expedition with survival gear hauled along so that the wife and i could survive in the truck for 2 days if we need to stuck in a ditch.....also why i stop and check out cars in the ditch to make sure someone aint hunkered down trying to survive whenits cold....
and my frost bite experience is why it bugs me the ppl that take off without a care in the world to our winter weather.....any trip in winter is approached as an expedition with survival gear hauled along so that the wife and i could survive in the truck for 2 days if we need to stuck in a ditch.....also why i stop and check out cars in the ditch to make sure someone aint hunkered down trying to survive whenits cold....
And that'd be me in that weather, just got back from the high country helping on an elk hunt. Got down to 22 degrees at night and I froze my butt off as soon as the sun went down. I do have all the good stuff now, but still have a hard time functioning in cold weather mentally... though that wouldn't be cold to you, it was miserable to me. I swear I'm not hunting the late high hunts anymore and yet I was packing out two front shoulders and a hind quarter with my MR pack and liking it... till the sun went down. I had a thought last night that I'd be dangerous to myself in a cold weather region.
The true answers are a political realignment of attitude and policy. Border Lockdown, deportation and then a worker program where the employer is responsible for safe transport for those they hire. It's win/win for all, even Mexico if they think about it.
The true answers are a political realignment of attitude and policy. Border Lockdown, deportation and then a worker program where the employer is responsible for safe transport for those they hire. It's win/win for all, even Mexico if they think about it.
Read the thread and I guess I just mirrored all the other desert dwellers from Az to Texas, except Jefe, who just likes being contrary. Very interesting impromptu poll on a subject we really don't discuss much.
Since the stations are there now and I understand the reason charity groups put them up, dead bodies need some kind of answer. I do believe there is another plus to having them on federal land if at all. It may divert some of the traffic through unpopulated areas from private property and ranchs and the hordes they deal with nightly.
I would rather they didn't come but they are no matter what, keeping them from dieing of thirst... it's just being human.
Oooops;.....I can only presume your silence pretaining to the simple question, indicates a "none" answer?....I figured as much, but, in your nightly binges I suppose your prone to verbosity, lots of arm waving, blubbering, and talking to your minions that actually believe the bullchit you ramble about:)
You and your BFF Hunter REALLY enjoy doing the "Interrogation" routine, Save your proclivities for when he's goit you handcuffed on the Cruise liner, homo.
You're not going to "Draw me out" any further on an internet forum ,... you're WELL known now as little smelly troll, and ignoring or ridiculing you will pretty much become the norm now.
Get you ass out to the next match,....all of your old "BUDS" are dying to know WTF you are (funny , nobody has A clue AS TO WHO YOU MIGHT BE),....and that would seem to indicate that you're pretty good at blowing gas around, and nothing more.
Here' a "Hunterism" for you, BrokeWetback,
"You know what my answer is, I don't give a flying [bleep] what folks think about me. To me it isn't some popularity contest, as many think it is. "
Suits you both,.....
MAKE EYE CONTACT with me,....and run your mouth the way you do here ?........Not fuggin' likely, AND quite frankly an encounter I'd just as soon pass on too.
Not trying to "draw you out", just a clarification on a statement you made concerning the fella who has stumbled across 8 stiffs in his life up north...you made the bold statement something to the effect of you've found over a hundred?....your words, not mine. I merely pointed out your living vicariously thru the stories that abound here "down on the border", and that I'd wager, you've not found even a damned boot, much less a festerin' meskin....Im spot on aren't I??? Your as full of chit as a christmas goose oooops, my bullchit buzzer is pretty fine tuned, and I saw you a mile away.
Wish you could shoot one of those matches with us , Terry,....once dialed in , it's not as difficult as one might think. We had a 10 run shot by one of our more formidable local shooters at the last one, first relay. On the second relay he and his spotter lost track of the wind and he kinda' tanked,..... One real interesting phenomena is the clear superiority of the standard velocity and SUB SONIC ammos,....as opposed to the "Screamers"....That stuff really goes away at 200.
Yep, it sounds like a lot of fun, longest range I have access to here is 100 yards and only paper targets allowed. I would love to shoot some steel again, did it years ago in falling plate matches with pistols. Much shorter range assuredly but the bang & clang was FUN!
We have a "Varmint Match" with RESETTABLE (from the line) falling steel out to 400 M +. One hell of a lot of fun, but for the Match directors and volunteer types,.... VERY maintenance intensive. At the end of a relay, Four or five individual "Racks" (which consist of 3 or 4 animals) are reset, with that good old Mil. Communications wire doing the mechanical chores,.....the steel, both the actual targets and the frames take a real beating. There's a sizable pile of the stuff out back for weld repair, as I peck.
Smacking the Full sized 55 lb NRA Ram Silhouettes @500 with the big Black Powder cartridges is just WAY to much fun,.....as is watching those "not so easy" Turkeys spin off at 385.
We have a "Varmint Match" with RESETTABLE (from the line) falling steel out to 400 M +. One hell of a lot of fun, but for the Match directors and volunteer types,.... VERY maintenance intensive. At the end of a relay, Four or five individual "Racks" (which consist of 3 or 4 animals) are reset, with that good old Mil. Communications wire doing the mechanical chores,.....the steel, both the actual targets and the frames take a real beating. There's a sizable pile of the stuff out back for weld repair, as I peck.
Smacking the Full sized 55 lb NRA Ram Silhouettes @500 with the big Black Powder cartridges is just WAY to much fun,.....as is watching those "not so easy" Turkeys spin off at 385.
GTC
sounds like a blast, never could get to liking punching paper....
If you EVER get a chance, attend a big NRA BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) Silhouette Match. Even as a spectator, it's a hoot,.....talk about sheer organized bedlam,....that would be it,...caution, that game is HIGHLY addictive.
I would have to make a trip down there we're he to come to a shoot, that would be a friggin hoot, I may be down in El Paso for the minth of Jan, might have to take a drive west Cross. Les
Oh contrare mi amigo.....Ive been advised by several of the old cadre about you, remember; I was shooting with the old geezers from the old range at Tombstone, until the move to SV....many years before your sorry azz drug into the neighborhood. While you were shivering your big behind off in Canada, looking for another job to get tossed out of, I had been here 30 years prior, shooting,working and living on the border.
And put it on the mehican side of the line. Call it a DMZ!
And if ya really want to do it right, and drive the point home, make the illegals caught throughout the 50 States do the work... chain gang... in pink jump suits. Release them on THEIR side when they're finished.
Ooooops; your arguements(or lack of them) keep getting weaker, and you try to fall back on some kind of delusional heir to the throne syndrome. Your pizz poor at best, when it comes to intellectual reparte, and even worse when attempting to pull that "holier than thou" stance of trying to brush off questions when they point right at your big azz. Your all right when posting your usual cut-N-paste rants, but when asked a pointed question, or refference your personal history....man do you start crawfishing, almost comical to watch, but with some consideration, it's almost pathetic. Ariba con los vasos amigo....one more round:) (hic)...what you swillin tonight?
Listen, Azzwhole,.....nobody's PRESSING you with a lot of questions about your "Mind Altering substance " past,are they?
...and I'm not in the dock, in some fuggin' courtroom to answer your "but when asked a pointed question, or refference your personal history." bullchit.
We're emphatically NOT " arguing ", and I have nothing on the go in that regard to "Get Weaker"....and it's more then clear who's "pathetic" here tonight.
You're a [bleep] sick troll,......go back under your bridge
Whats for dinner tonight ooops?......a big water glass of popov, or are you high rollin' tonight, and poured a dixie cup full of MD 20/20? Can you answer just one question, which you alluded to with a large helping of bravado earlier....how many room temperature wets have you found out in the pucker brush?....it aint a hundred is it? it ain't 50 is it?....it aint 10 or 5 or 3....it's none isn't it? Take a deep breath, think honesty for just one second, toss back a puzz full of that cheap wadka your guzzlin' and give just one straight answer??????
If you, or that pack of old gossiping pussies ( your "Geezers") that you ran / run with, and that you are being "Advised By" actually KNEW anything about me, you wouldn't have to ask that question,.....
as noted,.....you know very little or nothing about me,...and I'd just as soon keep it that way.
Hilarious actually....your silence on the questions is deafening. Your a phony putz, I know it, you know it, and the half dozen men I spoke to about you know it.
You, and your "Men"(if it's who I think you're talking about) are a bunch of gossiping girls, in all actuality.....and I would note that WEAK animals run in packs.
I'm sure you're all up to speed on the "Draft Dodger" inside skinny those cornholers hatched out, too ?
How be we put some SERIOUS money down on the table, Little girl,....and we'll all have a good laugh ?
I mean SERIOUS money,...and we can get a squared away wager organized, right here beside this fire,....OK ?
Ahhh...now we are getting closer to the answer. Im sure none is more than you care to think about, so in a round about way(like pulling gawd damned teeth) I get your honest answer......none.
Finally! we can agree, that your answer is absolutely none.
Whew, that was a taxing endeavor, pulling the truth from old ooops. Hey; most men know, other men, like to stand out in the crowd by making their stories just a bit bigger, more exciting, more intrigue filled than the next guy, it's human nature I guess, for the weaker to look meaner with a good story. I like a good liar, they are at least entertaining...a bad liar pizzes me off, because they make the assumption that by not challenging them, one believes their bullchit.....you my friend; are a bad liar!
Nothing worse than a mean drunk; or at least one who thinks he's mean, because your swinging like one:) lots of wild blows, just can't make a connection, yer a hoot ooooops!
have another pull off that bottle of cheap whiskey, the likker is talkin' bigger that the drinker about now:)
I might be able to shed some light on this subject. I am the president of Water Station, a non-profit group that establishes and maintains emergency water sites in California.
What we do not do is guide or help anyone in crossing the border, provide assistance in finding work, shelter or hide anyone who has crossed the border. What we do is leave water along some of the desert trails that people use.
We have permits from the BLM and California State Parks, as well as other agencies and landowners with jurisdiction, and we maintain an excellent working relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol. We just completed our eleventh year working in San Diego & Imperial Counties.
It amuses me when I see the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in Conservative principles, but who advocate vandalizing our stations. One of the main tenets of Conservatism is a respect for private property and yet here they are advocating the destruction of our private property.
If you have any questions (even one you might think are difficult), I'd be happy to answer them.
Guess that makes every long time desert dweller hunter and Rancher in southern Az a traitor. As we've all given water to illegals.
Whatever, there is a place for our anger and energy, vandalizing water in the desert isn't it.
Kent
water in the desert is so unnatural, unless one is wanting it to be there, at great expense and effort.
humanitarian service to the travelers, versus private landowners rights, govermental wishy-washy direction, and illegal aliens crossing over into America illegally. what a strange web we air-breathing humans weave.
private land is sacrosanct, at the cost of death, right? governmental land? well, who knows for sure?? but, if we tax-payers are covering the costs of governmental service, we should have a say-so, shouldn't we??
water, cool clean water, it's to die for, for sure. but, leaving polluted water out in plastic containers for the occasional traveler, why, that's inhumane isn't it? so many diseases are water-borne.
what if terriorists from anywhere on the globe visited the watering holes, and "salted" them with whatever virile biologic compound economically availble, to be spread to the mega-cities by lowly migrants just looking for work, a handout, and some federal assistance, at taxpayers expense??
i feel for the migrants (aka illegal aliens), but we're setting ourselves up for an attack by terrorists, flying under the radar, as they continue to encourage illegals to cross the southern borderlines.
does National Security mean nothing, or is it obsolete in the post-modern era??
seriously, if the intruders knows there's no potable water available for 3 to 9 days, why would they risk their lives to go there? well, i mean to traverse through there?
if we are indeed our Brothers Keeper, shouldn't we advise them not to go there, at the risk of their life??
seriously, free water is spiritual, but it's quite in short supply out west, in the desert, isn't it??
seriously, if the intruders knows there's no potable water available for 3 to 9 days, why would they risk their lives to go there? well, i mean to traverse through there?
Well, Gus, it's not like visiting Silver Dollar City or Worlds of Fun and you get a cute little pocket map with all the interesting stops alnog the way...
How many times we got to say it. If water gets out there, rain, rancher, trick tank, apron catchment, water spicket from a house, water station from a charity group.
I might be able to shed some light on this subject. I am the president of Water Station, a non-profit group that establishes and maintains emergency water sites in California.
What we do not do is guide or help anyone in crossing the border, provide assistance in finding work, shelter or hide anyone who has crossed the border. What we do is leave water along some of the desert trails that people use.
We have permits from the BLM and California State Parks, as well as other agencies and landowners with jurisdiction, and we maintain an excellent working relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol. We just completed our eleventh year working in San Diego & Imperial Counties.
It amuses me when I see the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in Conservative principles, but who advocate vandalizing our stations. One of the main tenets of Conservatism is a respect for private property and yet here they are advocating the destruction of our private property.
If you have any questions (even one you might think are difficult), I'd be happy to answer them.
Ben
You sound useful. You ain't skeert of snakes and lizards and other creepy crawlies, are ya? Several species in the area I'd add to the collection. And you won't even have to water them, just bag, box and ship.
How many times we got to say it. If water gets out there, rain, rancher, trick tank, apron catchment, water spicket from a house, water station from a charity group.
Don't F with it or you will get your ass handed.
Kent
i've had mine handed so many times that i've become quite de-sensitized to the very noun.
water in the desert, does it come from natural rainfall, or is it trucked in, unnaturally?
Since you really could care less on a real answer about a desert and how varied it is, I'm not wasting my breath. Just know old desert law, enemies will band together to take vengeance on water defilers.
[quote=WaterStationPrez]I might be able to shed some light on this subject. I am the president of Water Station, a non-profit group that establishes and maintains emergency water sites in California.
What we do not do is guide or help anyone in crossing the border, provide assistance in finding work, shelter or hide anyone who has crossed the border. What we do is leave water along some of the desert trails that people use.
We have permits from the BLM and California State Parks, as well as other agencies and landowners with jurisdiction, and we maintain an excellent working relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol. We just completed our eleventh year working in San Diego & Imperial Counties.
It amuses me when I see the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in Conservative principles, but who advocate vandalizing our stations. One of the main tenets of Conservatism is a respect for private property and yet here they are advocating the destruction of our private property.
If you have any questions (even one you might think are difficult), I'd be happy to answer them.
Ben well ben, I am about as conservative as you can get, and I am a life long resident of arizona, over 60 years now, and I DON"T like or condone illegal immigration. I have to admit when i first saw those flags going up and the water stations i had mixed feelings. Probably still do on some level. On the other hand, i have a LOT of sympathy for many of those trying to get here, hard not to when your grandfather tells you he left croatia in 1906 for this country because of starvation. Yeah i know, he did it through ellis island, but then croatia isn't right next door. I have also experienced and seen the effects of lack of water in the desert, and regardless of motivation and cause of people being in that situation, one would have to be pretty hard hearted or not familar with it to understand the humanitarian work you do. And i don't actually have a problem with it. I might add one must look at the conditions from where they are leaving to understand motivation and the risks they take.
Some of you guys bitch about the border problem 24/7.
Then someone bitches about the fact that water is put out for illegals and ya'll bitch about him bitching.
Make up yer [bleep] minds, you don't make the rules or form the opinions for the rest of us just because you choose to live in that chithole.
I don't see anything wrong with providing water, but I can't stand how everytime somebody voices an opinion on the border issue, our local experts parachute in and attempt correct everybody's thinking.
If it hasn't dawned on you yet, you will need the rest of the country to help solve this problem. So you might want to be a little more understanding of folks opinions or you experts may be left up to your azz in illegals.
i live in a place where the weather kills with surprising regularity.....ive helped rescue stranded ppl that werent bright enough to be prepared.....
You won't surprise me, but I don't see the difference. Quite the opposite - one guy is a idiot that forgets his galoshes and the other is dying of thirst trying for a better life.
let's shift the argument a click or two to the right, ok?
shut off the unnatural flow of water, if sold at less than market prices?
is that a fair start? then, let's deal with particulars, ok?
noone benefits from the natural flow of water except the direct beneficiaries?
water, what's it good for? anyone know?
Unreal, you are one [bleep] up retard. Let's undam all the rivers, cap all the wells, pull all the pipe... why don't you just walk to the nearest natural water source and bucket your water... this is in your neighborhood, you won't be worrying about us in the desert then.
let's shift the argument a click or two to the right, ok?
shut off the unnatural flow of water, if sold at less than market prices?
is that a fair start? then, let's deal with particulars, ok?
noone benefits from the natural flow of water except the direct beneficiaries?
water, what's it good for? anyone know?
if there ain't sufficient water to survive in your part of the desert you might want to consider packing it out?
i dunno.
shipping in water is expensive, and someone always pays, unless it's for free?
seriously, it's a big ball of wax to try to unravel. but, it's come time, or nearly so, to attempt the unraveling, to allow a more natural solution. (short of free energy of course).
but, how do we attempt such a gargantuan task, while the profit-makers hover above the process??
i dunno, i offer that much input.
Unreal, you are one [bleep] up retard. Let's undam all the rivers, cap all the wells, pull all the pipe... why don't you just walk to the nearest natural water source and bucket your water... this is in your neighborhood, you won't be worrying about us in the desert then.
Some of you guys bitch about the border problem 24/7.
Then someone bitches about the fact that water is put out for illegals and ya'll bitch about him bitching.
Make up yer [bleep] minds, you don't make the rules or form the opinions for the rest of us just because you choose to live in that chithole.
I don't see anything wrong with providing water, but I can't stand how everytime somebody voices an opinion on the border issue, our local experts parachute in and attempt correct everybody's thinking.
If it hasn't dawned on you yet, you will need the rest of the country to help solve this problem. So you might want to be a little more understanding of folks opinions or you experts may be left up to your azz in illegals.
JM
Who's bitching? we're riding a hot issue with a high degree of success having a fundamental change in our federal government. We also supply real facts and figures and personal experience to add flavor to the story and keep it current in people's minds.
We don't need anyone saving us, the illegals/drugs are headed your way, they aren't stopping here, we're taking care of ourselves just fine.
All we can do is put the truth out there, you don't like it... too bad. Vote the way you want, support whoever you want... that's the American way. I think we have woken up many with facts and possible solutions we suggest. Not once have we asked anyone to come save our azz... save your own or not... just don't come down with your 'varmint shooting' or 'water defiling' talk and expect a warm welcome.
i live in a place where the weather kills with surprising regularity.....ive helped rescue stranded ppl that werent bright enough to be prepared.....
You won't surprise me, but I don't see the difference. Quite the opposite - one guy is a idiot that forgets his galoshes and the other is dying of thirst trying for a better life.
aint forgetting goloshes......more like forgetting a sleeping bag and the works.....-40 is a b!tch to survive in without real protection.....and one is helping the guy you come upon versus setting up a way station to protect someone from their stupidity......
I might be able to shed some light on this subject. I am the president of Water Station, a non-profit group that establishes and maintains emergency water sites in California.
What we do not do is guide or help anyone in crossing the border, provide assistance in finding work, shelter or hide anyone who has crossed the border. What we do is leave water along some of the desert trails that people use.
We have permits from the BLM and California State Parks, as well as other agencies and landowners with jurisdiction, and we maintain an excellent working relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol. We just completed our eleventh year working in San Diego & Imperial Counties.
It amuses me when I see the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in Conservative principles, but who advocate vandalizing our stations. One of the main tenets of Conservatism is a respect for private property and yet here they are advocating the destruction of our private property.
If you have any questions (even one you might think are difficult), I'd be happy to answer them.
Ben
You sound useful. You ain't skeert of snakes and lizards and other creepy crawlies, are ya? Several species in the area I'd add to the collection. And you won't even have to water them, just bag, box and ship.
you sound like me...."wait, you live in Arizona? are you scared of catching scorpions?".....told the wife i was thinking bout getting snakes again this spring and her response was, and i quote, "[bleep] im gonna get bit AGAIN i just know it!"
i live in a place where the weather kills with surprising regularity.....ive helped rescue stranded ppl that werent bright enough to be prepared.....
You won't surprise me, but I don't see the difference. Quite the opposite - one guy is a idiot that forgets his galoshes and the other is dying of thirst trying for a better life.
aint forgetting goloshes......more like forgetting a sleeping bag and the works.....-40 is a b!tch to survive in without real protection.....and one is helping the guy you come upon versus setting up a way station to protect someone from their stupidity......
It's helping the guy you come upon and not taking an ax to the way station destroying it, that a 'Charity', even if it's leftist, built in an area known to kill people because of the lack of.
Look, Kent,...as a friend pointed out yesterday rattler's one of the good guys,.....this is a philosophical issue that will probably remain unresolved, I'd venture.
We ARE being "ASSAULTED" (pun intended) in a metaphoric sense by some far more dangerous types.
We'd best sew this one into a good well intentioned shroud ,....and gird our loins for discussing the WEIRD and totally [bleep] up verdict outta' Gitmo today.
I like the BULK of the folks here,.....if I have any "Enemies" you'll know it pronto......and usually do
The few I have being some sorta' deviate Homo Power types, easily identified, and known better then any of us would volly up for.
I was just trying to put the parallel on even footing, I know rattler's good people, I really enjoyed his family pictures... as is JW, though he called where I live a chithole... LOL...
Ahhh, there ya go ooops, that little diatribe musta made you sniff, grunt and pull up your big boy pants with an air of superiority huh? Man, you really do, take your self more serious than your subject don't you?
I might be able to shed some light on this subject. I am the president of Water Station, a non-profit group that establishes and maintains emergency water sites in California.
What we do not do is guide or help anyone in crossing the border, provide assistance in finding work, shelter or hide anyone who has crossed the border. What we do is leave water along some of the desert trails that people use.
We have permits from the BLM and California State Parks, as well as other agencies and landowners with jurisdiction, and we maintain an excellent working relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol. We just completed our eleventh year working in San Diego & Imperial Counties.
It amuses me when I see the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in Conservative principles, but who advocate vandalizing our stations. One of the main tenets of Conservatism is a respect for private property and yet here they are advocating the destruction of our private property.
If you have any questions (even one you might think are difficult), I'd be happy to answer them.
How about we staff all the water stations with police so we can arrest the illegals after they get a drink of water.
Because they would learn to stay clear of the water stations and that would be inhumane...I think.
I wouldn't deny a person a drink if I came across them, but setting up water stations is marking out a path into the country. Why not just post signs in Spanish marking the shortest route so they don't get lost? How about we stash quads out there to use when they get tired?
"Right to an opinion"??????? you gotta be [bleep] me! This is oooops-I-crapped-my-pants country, there's only one valid opinion, and thats his! All others, are mere conjecture. See, he has lived in this ole wild west border country for a whole dozen years, and has garnered more wisdom and insight than those of us who have live half a hundred years down on the border. It transcends opinion with ole senor ooooops.......it's gospel:)
Of course I did; you reply with, what you believe to be scarcasm, but I nailed just how your alcohol fogged brain really thinks...you really do, take yourself more serious than the subject, thats the pathetic part. Your only open to discussion with those of like mind, any disagreement, and off the deep end you go, with your patent name calling, invectives,that phony and annoying trans spanglish lexicon you think to be so cute, then when you've swilled enough Popov to picle a pig, you sputter, shout and get fairly damned crude in your replies....yep, your one, curt sentence, described your actual thought about your opinion.
I'd get right offa' the "Old Buckaroo" bit, that you tried to pull off, you little over educated fruit.
You took a good shot at it,...but your basic values have "shone through",....and you're obviously riding for some "Rights" or "RAZA" outfit". You REALLY come across as a reformed drunk / doper,.....couldn't handle it,....what?
You have been here 50 years,.....but you've never lived a LIFE, probably just a near facsimile thereof, I'll tell you why I say that,....over the years I've learned that (unlike you and Loser1960) ,...folks that have really BTDT DON'T blow their horns very loud, and don't just go running around challenging "newcomers" on "Turf" issues.
That crack about my "Freezing my Ass off up in Canada" ?
.....I WAS punk,....I most CERTAINLY was......While you were "Smokin' "Fatties" in a Cocaine Bar in Douglas.
Last night's response to your deranged 'hired on' chit,......."Get a life" dittos
I might be able to shed some light on this subject. I am the president of Water Station, a non-profit group that establishes and maintains emergency water sites in California.
What we do not do is guide or help anyone in crossing the border, provide assistance in finding work, shelter or hide anyone who has crossed the border. What we do is leave water along some of the desert trails that people use.
We have permits from the BLM and California State Parks, as well as other agencies and landowners with jurisdiction, and we maintain an excellent working relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol. We just completed our eleventh year working in San Diego & Imperial Counties.
It amuses me when I see the hypocrisy of people who claim to believe in Conservative principles, but who advocate vandalizing our stations. One of the main tenets of Conservatism is a respect for private property and yet here they are advocating the destruction of our private property.
If you have any questions (even one you might think are difficult), I'd be happy to answer them.
Well gosh, another active player in the Border situation chimes in
The hot air and Middle School recess-style b&tching here can go on here forever, but among all the sniping, there's some interesting stuff.
Post here more often Sir, be interesting to hear other viewpoints.
For my own part I'd hand out water in a heartbeat too. Like folks said, its only water, and this situation is much bigger than poor folks stumbling around in the desert.
For you Mr President of Water Station, I would like to see you put out of business. If there was a proper border, there would be no one to serve. Maybe a lost pecary hunter ... but he would be an American citizen ... with papers!
You sound useful. You ain't skeert of snakes and lizards and other creepy crawlies, are ya? Several species in the area I'd add to the collection. And you won't even have to water them, just bag, box and ship.
you sound like me...."wait, you live in Arizona? are you scared of catching scorpions?".....told the wife i was thinking bout getting snakes again this spring and her response was, and i quote, "[bleep] im gonna get bit AGAIN i just know it!"
Hots are fun but watch out!
Don't know if you've ever tried this but next chance you get shine a black light on a scorpion. The old style incandescent bulb type like the hippie kid down the block had.
It's TOOOOOO COOOOL!
Newer light fixtures made for plants and fish tanks work too, but not to the same degree.
i live in a place where the weather kills with surprising regularity.....ive helped rescue stranded ppl that werent bright enough to be prepared.....
You won't surprise me, but I don't see the difference. Quite the opposite - one guy is a idiot that forgets his galoshes and the other is dying of thirst trying for a better life.
aint forgetting goloshes......more like forgetting a sleeping bag and the works.....-40 is a b!tch to survive in without real protection.....and one is helping the guy you come upon versus setting up a way station to protect someone from their stupidity......
It's helping the guy you come upon and not taking an ax to the way station destroying it, that a 'Charity', even if it's leftist, built in an area known to kill people because of the lack of.
No one's asking you to go build one.
Kent
as cross pointed out its a phylisophical issue more than anything....bugs the [bleep] out of me that they have to be there.....combined that with im also not one that likes to protect idiots from their own stupidity regardless of where they call home....i wouldnt build warming huts on remote passes to protect Americans, either prepare for the worst or dont [bleep] go....wouldnt like the watering stations even if the border was closed tighter and hell and the intended purpose was for American dumb [bleep] hiking in the area.....
We're not the the one's bellowing like an azz shot cow on here day after day.
The hole in your dike affects the rest of the country as well, but you seem to not realize this.
Good luck with protecting the water stations. Chances are, illegals will vandalize them before Americans do.
Might want to set up some remote cameras at them as well, at least that way they will be of some benefit to Americans also.
JM
I'm bellowing about water in the desert day after day? Prove it.
The whole illegal issue is a hingepin on our nation's future, as is returning manufacturing to this country. I will for sure standup and be a voice of reality. The story is on going and fluctuating. New issues and angles, the 'story' is fluid... as the example of 'water in the desert'. The whole overall issue in Az with the gov, sheriffs, cartels, ect, has national implications, up to the President being a vocal player.
I'm a vocal player on this site. also a player in issues here in real life. This isn't play time. You have underlying issues with me besides a disagreement of water stations... there are about 5 others that do also... bring it on.
As far as protection/cameras... you see, there are tons of apron catchments we as hunters, working with the G&F construct for wildlife, the charity stations aren't really needed, more of a political statement from the left. Many of the catchments have cameras and the illegals know it, they don't bother them, I'll post some pictures this afternoon.
Again all your commentary is Bullchit, you have no idea what you are talking about and if you found a catchment in the desert you wouldn't have any idea if it was for illegals or wildlife, inciting vandalism against water in the desert is DUMBPHUCK stupid... saying you don't 'like' the stations, I have already told others I understand that, no issue with that opinion.
You're flailing all over the place and didn't hit a fact yet. I don't give a chit if you don't like my posts on a vital issue in this country. I've worked hard at keeping my commentary factual and on point. Can't please all the people, all the time.
"Newer light fixtures made for plants and fish tanks work too, but not to the same degree."
Your friendly "Snap-On" dealer has a battery powered "Black Light" that's designed for auto AC work. Lotsa' ZOTS,...or RAYS, ...whatever ya' call the [bleep]' things,....."Radiant emmenations" ? We cornered up some Sinaloas in a dark spot,....and as you say, it's quite a SHOW.
Speaking of "emmenations",.....has anybody else noted alla' the insects and creepazoidal chit that crawled out and "Defended itself" against some "Right Wing Attack" ?
as cross pointed out its a phylisophical issue more than anything....bugs the [bleep] out of me that they have to be there.....combined that with im also not one that likes to protect idiots from their own stupidity regardless of where they call home....i wouldnt build warming huts on remote passes to protect Americans, either prepare for the worst or dont [bleep] go....wouldnt like the watering stations even if the border was closed tighter and hell and the intended purpose was for American dumb [bleep] hiking in the area.....
Goota run... it's not about building them, I won't either, though I do the wildlife guzzlers and the illegals will use those. It's about 'vandalizing' after they are there. I understand what you are saying, just want others to understand what I'm saying.
Around here one can build his own warming hut when broke down on a lonely wintery road.
This is hay country. Just cut open a bale and ride the storm out. You'll even have something to eat come along to share your bed, if ya don't mind eating a mouse or three without cooking first
".i wouldnt build warming huts on remote passes to protect Americans, either prepare for the worst or dont [bleep] go"
so,...you are an old school "alpine guide" ?
Sarcasm OFF ,.....what's with THAT attitude ?
...."Warming Huts" are a pretty well established ( oh, let's just say 300 year old, at least) TRADITION,...in Alpine Mountaineering.
So,.....??????
GTC
was referring to along highways and the idiots that will head up the pass in their 2wd car in white out conditions cause there is a safety net ahead of them.....
Oh,....I was thinking "Mountaineering, the Freedom of the Hills" like.....ALPINE DESERT
there's NO "highways" where these "Rescue stations" are located, and without your spending a full day out in mid June Sonora Chihuahua Desert,....sans H20, .....as a backround play
as we went through a couple days ago its the idea they are there i dont like, not that they are actually there....to me they are a neon sign saying give'r hell there is water waiting for yah if yah cant carry enough....just like warming huts along the highway would be a sign post for idiots to give it a try regardless of the weather cause they will have an option if chit dont work out....
BTDT ehh? Yeah, in your alcohol induced stupors, Im sure your psycotic wnadering mind has had many a lucid dream that has become yourt reality:) YOU; of all people, he who blows not only his own horn, but a gawd damned tuba about your "vast" experiences "down on the border"....finding "hundreds" of dead wets, "many mummified parts-N-pieces", those "wink-N-nod" assurances that you are the oracle of truth of whats happenin' now attitude. Your as full of chit as a christmas goose, been here a dozen years and have such a firm handle on whats going on?, the tightest thing you have had a grip on in the last ten years has been the neck of a cheap bottle of hooch. Your the biggest blow hard on this forum, constantly dropping hints and bloviating about your "experience" and knowledge of all things border, when in reality, your readings of blogs slanted to your belief system is all ya got amigo. One scentence at the top of each post you make, then a boring five paragraph of cut-N-paste. You have some folks fooled, I guess they think those pasted words are your thoughts, and not the thoughts others you just copy? How many of your shooting croonies at the club did you have to verbally kick in the nutz and mutha [bleep], until you ended up with a half dozen followers to play lets choot buffler game? Because to a man, those Ive asked about you have all done the eye roll thing....whats up with that?
There are literally hundreds of catchments as well as stock tanks and some have cameras and such. Vandalizing, or acts of terrorism on them is not tolerated if the perps are caught. Even the illegals know not to destroy them.
On BLM and state land, Az G&F sell a book with all the locations, you can literally walk from one to another.
The blue barrels are a drop in the bucket, pun intended. They are a political statement, if anyone that disagrees with them want's to go and picket them, stand on protest with a sign and keep people out, make their own political statement, I'll help with gas money.
Those 3 between the river and highway 95 appear to be on the Yuma Proving Ground firing/bombing range (or whatever it is now called). No 531 is approximately the location of a natural tank.
Doesn't seem like a good location to travel through on foot, with the military hazards added to those of the desert.
Surprisingly the Barry Goldwater range gets all kinds of illegal traffic and the military turns their eye. The only way I can get on the range is have a tag (and I do this year) pay a permit fee. Illegals know all the angles, that's why we have to shut the border... at the border.
Thanks, I don't have the Yuma range but do have the BG range, my units are 39,40s, 41 and 42... muzzy dec rut tag, I lucked out, there are big bucks there also.
For you Mr President of Water Station, I would like to see you put out of business.
I would like to be put out of business as well (although "business" is probably the wrong term for work for which no one gets paid). We would be happy to stop doing the work we do, as that would mean there would no longer be great numbers of people dying in the desert.
I am a lifelong progressive activist, but the founder of our organization is a libertarian Republican, an outdoorsman and hunter, and the brother of one of the most conservative men ever to serve in the U.S. Congress. As birdwatcher said, "It's only water [and] this situation is much bigger than poor folks stumbling around in the desert."
We do a simple thing -- going where there we think thirsty people will pass by and leaving water for them. But of course, it isn't always easy to do a simple thing.
I ain't sure that many of these people have a choice as to where and when they cross (ya I know, they had the choice not to come at all).
Consider that for many, just getting across/out of Mexico is an accomplishment, so brutally can they be victimized down there. Add to that exorbitant fees paid to their coyotes... such that when they set foot on US soil, turning around and going back prob'ly just ain't a realistic option.
I ain't sure that many of these people have a choice as to where and when they cross (ya I know, they had the choice not to come at all).
Consider that for many, just getting across/out of Mexico is an accomplishment, so brutally can they be victimized down there. Add to that exorbitant fees paid to their coyotes... such that when they set foot on US soil, turning around and going back prob'ly just ain't a realistic option.
Birdwatcher
forgive me, but you make it sound like they're all entreprenuers, betting everything on a better quality of life for them and their children?
what about the interlopers who prey upon the American social system, as a goal?
are Nationalistic laws breaking down, and the Law of the Jungle is beginning to manifest?
we're pretty crowded in my corner of the world, but we could shift diets, layoff workers, and redirect entire economies. is that what is wanted, or not?
Very astute Birdwatcher; you pretty much nailed it. No fence will stop them, lack of water will not stop them, BP agents runnin' around on quads won't stop them, old men with to much time on their hands, wearing camo, peering endlessly across the border won't stop them. The only thing that will stop the invasion....is the only reason they come here; to make money to feed their families back home. Stop the reason they come, and they will stop coming here....pretty simple fix really.
Yeah; like the elkhunter that never has anything to say is....ain't the internet something! Come on now buddy; Im contributing tonight, play nice, or you'll get wacked.
Good idea gus...while we are at it; we could have half of them dig holes, and the other half fill them up!! I think your "idea" has real merit.
yeah, yeah.
but, please remember, there's a third guy, the one in the middle.
one guy dig's the hole, one guy plants the tree, and the third guy fills the whole.
if the second guy is out sick that day, it's just like you suggest. paying people to dig holes, and paying others to follow along to fill the holes. Make work doesn't work oh so well.
but the Middle Guy, who places the tree in the hole, now his help and assistance is crucial. if he's out sick or didn't show up that day, the rest is bureacracy at it's finest.
connecting the dots, what does the pattern presented by the connected dots look like?
Ahhhh; pretty cryptic chit gus.....dots, connection,holes, trees,in,out,first guy, last guy, middlemen....whew. Lets just make it impossible for them to be employeed here in the US, and they can sort out their own mess over there, a good revolution comes to mind!
Ahhhh; pretty cryptic chit gus.....dots, connection,holes, trees,in,out,first guy, last guy, middlemen....whew. Lets just make it impossible for them to be employeed here in the US, and they can sort out their own mess over there, a good revolution comes to mind!
heh, Bro., i'm more of a technology guy than anything. the more technology available, (given a constant food source and supply), the better.
South American food air-freighted in the winter, and Northern Hemisphere food available in the summer. what a concept.
let's remember, lest we forget, we are our Brothers Keeper. but, to be overrun by barbarians is not such a good idea. it's been tried in the past, and we can see what that got for all of us.
why can't we reach out and help the "migrants" to find gainful employment at home in their own villages? if it's going to be a global village, we'd be on the right track, wouldn't we?
i can easily understand both greed and fear; but, at some point we really ought to talk about the problems and challenges we face, shouldn't we??
It's right there in front of them; ripe for the taking. Vast natural resources, abundant farm land, abundant oil reserves, all of which is nationalized at this particular time. Im constantly scratching my head, wondering why in the hell, with education standards being what they are in this modern age, when the young of their country are going to wake up and take the reins? We can't "give" them, anything they don't all ready have access to, they have to stand up and take it....it's called cultural revolution, and they need to have a good one to get squared away.
Yeah; like the elkhunter that never has anything to say is....ain't the internet something! Come on now buddy; Im contributing tonight, play nice, or you'll get wacked.
Oh I am so scared................get a life, tell you what I'll give you 25 centavos so you can buy one better than you have now...
forgive me, but you make it sound like they're all entreprenuers, betting everything on a better quality of life for them and their children?
what about the interlopers who prey upon the American social system, as a goal?
are Nationalistic laws breaking down, and the Law of the Jungle is beginning to manifest?
we're pretty crowded in my corner of the world, but we could shift diets, layoff workers, and redirect entire economies. is that what is wanted, or not?
The fact that they voluntarily subject themselves to the appalling risks they run is evidence of their quality of life in the places where they come from.
They can come here and AMERICANS WILL HIRE THEM, by the millions. Illegals are many, persistent and hard to spot, the Americans who hire them are much easier to identify. Even mild measures in Arizona against these employers resulted in many illegals leaving the State.
I'm in disagreement with Jefe; seriously crimping the flow of illegals IS NOT impossible, or even all that difficult. Just look at how even half-measures have redirected the flow of illegal drugs and people across our Border, accounting in part for the problems Arizona has been suffering in recent decades.
2,000 miles of Border, four pairs of boots on the ground per mile = 8,000 people. Times four shifts = 32,000 people.
The Houston Independent School District alone employs that many people. The New York Police Department alone employs more than 34,000 Cops.
The whole country couldn't finance an equivalent increase in force on the Border? Likely nothing close to that would be needed to augment the Border Patrol Agents already there. Especially given the technology and force-mulitiplyers we have available today
The fact that whole US Border Patrol currently employs only about 20,000 agents (according to Wiki) to cover both Borders can only elict a big WTF given the magnitude of the threats we face.
That's very noble. Although odds are quite high I disagree with most of your political beliefs, I salute your efforts.
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
I ain't sure that many of these people have a choice as to where and when they cross (ya I know, they had the choice not to come at all).
Consider that for many, just getting across/out of Mexico is an accomplishment, so brutally can they be victimized down there. Add to that exorbitant fees paid to their coyotes... such that when they set foot on US soil, turning around and going back prob'ly just ain't a realistic option.
I feel for them, too. My ancestors came for the same reason and under some of the same circumstances. They traveled much further too, and on less money I'd wager. But they came here to build. There's a difference. And they DID build. Another difference. There were no handouts and no liberals back then, but they survived.
In other words, my pity only goes so far. The people of Mexico could have long ago emulated the American spirit. For crying out loud we were right next door.... with them looking on the whole time.... End of pity party.
Originally Posted by lame brained wetback
No fence will stop them, lack of water will not stop them, BP agents runnin' around on quads won't stop them, old men with to much time on their hands, wearing camo, peering endlessly across the border won't stop them.
You're full of beans. Any idiot can build a fence to keep any critter, including the human kind, in or out. A few might seep through the cracks but not enough to worry about and certainly not 30 to 40 million.
Originally Posted by full of beans wetback
The only thing that will stop the invasion....is the only reason they come here; to make money to feed their families back home
See above. If people wanted change in their lives they would take the necessary steps. It's been done before and it'll be done again. Will the Mexican people do it? I dunno. Can they? Well, of course they can. They, as we, outnumber the dipsh!t government and the dipsh!t criminal element many dozens to one. Watch, I'll prove it. America is being taken back from the dipshits as we speak. They may have to go about it differently but the Mexican people are no less capable. It all boils down to human spirit. Muster some up and see what you got. What have you (they/we/etc) got to loose?
Can't remember where this quote comes from but it applies. "Get busy living or get busy dying."
See below....it was above, but you didn't read it:)
It's right there in front of them; ripe for the taking. Vast natural resources, abundant farm land, abundant oil reserves, all of which is nationalized at this particular time. Im constantly scratching my head, wondering why in the hell, with education standards being what they are in this modern age, when the young of their country are going to wake up and take the reins? We can't "give" them, anything they don't all ready have access to, they have to stand up and take it....it's called cultural revolution, and they need to have a good one to get squared away.
See below....it was above, but you didn't read it:)
It's right there in front of them; ripe for the taking. Vast natural resources, abundant farm land, abundant oil reserves, all of which is nationalized at this particular time. Im constantly scratching my head, wondering why in the hell, with education standards being what they are in this modern age, when the young of their country are going to wake up and take the reins? We can't "give" them, anything they don't all ready have access to, they have to stand up and take it....it's called cultural revolution, and they need to have a good one to get squared away.
Who are you and what have you done with JefeMohado?
If only we'd a had folks like H2Oprez during the Potato famine....there'd be a bridge from Ireland to Boston....with Soda bread and Banger carts alongst the way.
My GGG Grandma wouldn't of had to die during child birth on the boat crossing.
I feel for them, too. My ancestors came for the same reason and under some of the same circumstances. They traveled much further too, and on less money I'd wager. But they came here to build. There's a difference. And they DID build. Another difference. There were no handouts and no liberals back then, but they survived.
Odd how many seem to think my posts are about "feelings", must be my handle or summat.
On the "building" sentiment. A not uncommon sentiment from American Mexicans down here is "we built this country". An understandable statement if yer grandparents were migrant workers and/or laborers, and if you live in a state where the widespread hiring of "wets" for all sorts of manual labor has been a Texas tradition forever.
An impression also easily reinforced given the apparent nationality of most of the laborers working on the many construction projects here in Texas.
I expect illegal aliens would still come in droves even if offered the same deal your ancestors got. Which was probably STILL much better than are the prospects at home for present day illegals.
What sort of nation they or Hispanics in general would build I dunno. This is a concept that troubles me greatly as Texas is gonna be an actual Hispanic majority state in my own expected lifetime.
1. Secure our boarders 2. Enforce our laws 3. Do away with "anchor baby" stature
Many illegals would self-deport if the Federal government would stop federal funds to hospitals, police departments, cities, schools, social welfare programs etc., that do not report illegals to ICE.
Once the institutions turn on the illegals (and they would for the money), then many illegals would turn back to the border on their own.
...This was during the chit storm last Spring / early Summer,.....some Doped up Spic Rap group called "Calle 13", in from Puerto Rico by way of a bus fron California,.... raising hell while our State Capital Building was being SMEARED with refried beans.
The little ditty on this Azzwhole's back, "Luz Verde para Invadir Arizona?"
Thought I smelled something, but "ignore" is like a good face mask,....cuts down the majority of chiity smells wafting about one's business and pleasure.
You KNOW that you're nothing but a decrepit, out of date, hopelessly "Behind the times Racist" I gather.
"What sort of nation they or Hispanics in general would build I dunno."
Nope, you don't.
The Narcos? All made possible by the daily contributions of millions of Americans, who's dollars go south. Else, Mexico would likely still be the sort of place you fondly recall, before we collectively put $30 billion a year in the pockets of the worst elements of their society.
The lunatic fringe in your pics? They are unwittingly among our best friends. Hey, let 'em demonstrate all they want, they disgust almost everyone.
But I aint talking actual Mexican Mexicans per se, I'm more concerned with the American Mexicans who have been here for at least two generations already. Including the nine million Texans you seem to completely ignore in your posts (Hispanic Texans alone amounting to about one and a half times the population of your entire state).
I'm recalling how San Antonio, all sides of town, erupted in American flags after 9/11, and the many young people from around my neighborhood I know who are currently serving in uniform.
At present, two-thirds of these American Hispanics in Texas still vote Democrat, which is sorta ironic since most are Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Pro-Religion and have guns in their houses. ( And if ya think they support folks on welfare, try being a "will work for food" guy here at an intersection on the South Side )
I'd class most of 'em as what we used to call "yellow dog Democrats"; Southern voters voting Democrat because they always have, even after the Democratic party drifted away from their values.
That and the influence of the Catholic Church, which always seems to back Democrats.
A common perception around here seems to be that the Republican party consists of old rich White people who don't like Hispanics. We ignore that perception at our peril.
If people wanted change in their lives they would take the necessary steps. It's been done before and it'll be done again. Will the Mexican people do it? I dunno
There are presently about 9 million American Mexicans living in Texas, comprising a majority of the population all across South Texas. A few, like my wife's kin, can trace their roots back here to before Texas existed. But MOST however are grandchildren or great grandchildren of refugees who fled here during the last big dust-up in Mexico.
If and when the chit hits the fans down there, expect a massive influx of refugees the likes of which we have never seen.
Near as I can tell this is why we so actively support the status quo in Mexico (sorta like how we support the Saudis, in the interests of "stability").
Here, here, BW! possibly the most erudite, correct, and to the point response yet to grace these pages, you absolutely nailed it! You my friend; have a very firm graasp on what is, and isn't going on here on the border.....well done amigo, I agree 100%.
So very true about the Narco's. They're just making tons of money off the illegal drug loving US Citizens. I don't hear much said about those who spend good Yankee dollars to support their drug habits.
It's funny, in my many years of working narcotics, i've seen both sides of the tracks. I've dealt with the hood, project, people, all the way to the country club folks. The only difference is the hood folks, get the Public Defender, country club, gets an attorney bill for keeping them or their kids out of the clink. Illegal narcotics is a business, and a loved and desired product by many US Citizens.
It's interesting also, that it's not only the Hispanic gangs that are involved in the Narco. business in the SW. The prodominent white, Outlaw M/C Gangs are commiting as much drug sales and violence as any criminal organization in the SW, we don't hear much said about them from folks here.
It's right there in front of them; ripe for the taking. Vast natural resources, abundant farm land, abundant oil reserves, all of which is nationalized at this particular time. Im constantly scratching my head, wondering why in the hell, with education standards being what they are in this modern age, when the young of their country are going to wake up and take the reins? We can't "give" them, anything they don't all ready have access to, they have to stand up and take it....it's called cultural revolution, and they need to have a good one to get squared away.
Because they are savages.
As you said, Mexico is rich in natural resources. Mexico's problem is a people problem. Letting them into the US only brings that people problem into the US, it doesn't somehow miraculously "fix" those people.
As you said, Mexico is rich in natural resources. Mexico's problem is a people problem. Letting them into the US only brings that people problem into the US, it doesn't somehow miraculously "fix" those people.
...and yet we have nine million blood descendants of these savages here in Texas; American Mexicans.
You and I can walk around the 95% Hispanic South and West Sides of my city, one of the largest poverty areas in the United States, at any time, day or night, with little to fear.
Hordes of clueless Liberal out of state bird watchers, and droves of elderly "snowbirds" in their RV's all converge on the Border in the Lower Rio Grande Valley every winter, have been for years, without major problems. Again, one of the major poverty areas in the United States.
Here's some pics of Hell (Cuidad Juarez) from the middle of town in El Paso, showing just how close the two communities are.
Narco shootouts, murders, and headless bodies hung from overpasses in Juarez. Yet El Paso, just a hundred yards or so away across the fence, population close to .75 million mostly Mexican Hispanics, remains one of the friendliest, safest cities for its size in the whole United States (knock on wood).
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