Thought I'd ask your opinions on triggers before I order a Timney for my Vanguard.
What do you feel is the best overall breaking weight for a mountain hunting rifle?
Your thoughts?

the sheriff jim wilson likes a 3 to 3.5lb trigger and if its good enough for a class act like him its good enough for anyone.

I like them in the range of 40 ounces without any creep. If they are not to be used in cold weather, even a bit lighter would work for me.

I am used to shooting light triggers on air pistols, free pistols, air rifles, free rifles, and set triggers, but on a hunting rifle, I don't want lighter than 3 lbs.

The right trigger weight depends on a lot of things:
singe or two stage,
length of takeup,
width of the trigger affecting your felt pressure,
bare hands or wearing gloves

On a mountain rifle especially, you are likely to be hunting in the cold, where you cannot feel the trigger as well. Also, you run a good chance of stumbling, falling, and dropping your rifle, and you don't want it going off accidentally. Whatever you set it at, bounce it on floor a bit and bump it side to side with a snap cap in the chamber to be sure it doesn't go off. If you ever start to squeeze the trigger and stop, put the safety on and cycle the bolt to reset the trigger.

IMO, for a light mountain rifle, 2-2.5 lbs. You will find that, with practice, you can shoot it very accurately.

Lighter the rifle, lighter the trigger pull.

2 pounds is fine

I'll also take 2 to 2 1/4 pounds, but it must be dead crisp. A light creepy trigger will drive you nuts.

+1 on that

I like 2 to 2 1/1 LB's and not creep.

The factory setting on the Tikka T3 Lite seems about right to me.

2 to 2.5 is great in warm country - 3 to 3.5 is better where the frigid winds blow...

I am surprised by the number of people who use such light trigger pulls on hunting rifles. Mine are all set between 4-5 lbs, and that's after a period I went through where I kept them all at 3 or a little less. A cold day wearing gloves, breathing hard, and trying to get a quick shot on an elk taught me a lesson about that.

Thing is, I cannot tell one little bit of difference in accuracy even at the bench with the heavier pull. I just don't think there's any practical advantage to such a light pull.

Lighter pull helps offhand with light rifles, even more so when breathing heavy. YMMV

Yeah, if you can keep your finger off the trigger until the exact split second you're ready to fire. Not an easy thing to do when the crosshairs just won't hold still.

But the split second they find that mark the less resistance the better

i like them between 1.5 and 2 pounds.

We're discussing triggers not burritos........

Nice to see you boys together.

3 pounds works for me.

Been running 20 ounce triggers for a very long time... -20 to 100+ they seem to go bang just fine...

i prefer 36 oz on a smooth faced trigger. on a a serrated trigger i go a little lighter.
Excerpt from: "Jeff Cooper's Commentaries"
November 1997, Vol.5, No.12

Invariably the subject will come up: "How does the Steyr Scout shoot?" Well, it shoots very well indeed. Why wouldn't it?... That lovely trigger, with its clean [b]30-oz break, actually seems to make it hard to miss.

Listen to me purr![/b]

2.5-3 lbs on hunting rifles. I can like them lighter but then they are too sensitive when cold or after exertion.

That's plenty light enough not to be jerking the trigger and heavy enough not to be overly sensitive.

MM

No more than 2.5 lbs on my rifles in any hunting conditions.

McInnis,
I don't try to shoot while wearing gloves, I buy them loose enough that I can bite and hold the glove with my teeth to pull my hand out and shoot. It doesn't take but a moment.

I have two questions for all those with light trigger pulls on hunting rifles:

1. Why? Does it make you a better shot in the field?

2. Have you tested your rifles for accidental discharge from dropping it?

I like them in the 2lb range as well.

IMHO, Scott is right - the lighter the rifle, the lighter the trigger needs to be.

From field positions and offhand, the lighter trigger helps most. A controlled squeeze is rare for me in a hunting situation - I need to be time it so that I am able to touch off the trigger just when I want to in most hunting situations, and that's where a light trigger makes me a better shot in a hunting situation. It's also the reason a lighter rifle needs a lighter trigger - I need to affect things as little as possible when I touch off the shot offhand or in a field position when I need to control timing the shot to occur precisely at the right moment.

I also will take reasonable shots on moving game - frequently on hogs, and even on this buck I shot last year. He had a doe in a thicket and came out in the open for a second to run off a smaller buck and I drilled his shoulders as he slowed from a trot to a brisk walk just as he was leaving the clearing to return to his doe. Killed him with a Montana 7-08 with the trigger just a whisker under 2 lbs - which was perfect. A light trigger sure helps when swinging with a moving animal and touching off a shot at just the right time.



It obviously wasn't cold that day, but cold hasn't been a problem with light triggers IME. Of course, I don't hunt in crazy cold weather too much....grin.

Lee - I test the dickens out of my rifles for accidental discharge dangers - lots of slam fires and bump tests all over the rifle after I adjust a trigger. BTW - some rifles will AD with odd bumps - I've found it's a good idea to test with a bump on the forend. Also, sometimes it's the 8th of 10th slam fire before a trigger discharges. I've also seen them AD more easily after the safety is engaged and dis-engaged - had a model 70 that could have fooled me on that one if I hadn't been pretty persistent in testing it.

DJ

Lee,

I was born a night, but not last night! and your questions are a little condescending. I'll answer like this, A light crisp trigger helps in shooting in all situations and Yes I have done a "controlled" drop of my rifles. And I'm sure many others have thought the same as I about this.

CLB

That's a nice buck DJ.....

I like my hunting rifles (bolt guns) set around 2.5-3 lbs as well. I'm not sure that it makes me a better shot though. If the rifle fires from a slam, then the trigger wasn't adjusted correctly from the start. Has nothing to do with the weight it was set at.

Found I can shoot most any pull wt. well if the break is clean. I like 3-4# when I have a choice.
Shot a buddies old 308 in a Win 100 ( or was the semiauto the mod. 88?) that had the trigger lightened up. Nearly always doubled.
My biggest complaint against the TC conventional black powder rifles are the set triggers. Man, do I need a lot of practice to still hunt effectively with them. Learned this the hard way, and more than once.
Set or not, I find them difficult to master.

Don't care for anything much over 3. Won't use anything 2 or under for hunting.

Trigger pull weight actually does have something to do with the tendency to accidentally trip when a handgun or rifle is dropped.

The adjustment of the tension often results in the sear engagement getting out of adjustment.

Secondly, triggers have mass. Some triggers have a lot of mass, and when a rifle or handgun falls and lands a certain way, the impulse load of that trigger mass can be more than 4 or 5 pounds upon impact.

Every year, someone drops a rifle with a 5 lb trigger from a treestand, it discharges, and kills them.

#1. Yes.
#2. Tested from where, like while sitting at your PC?

If you shoot out the window from your PC chair, you might want to test it there. This thread is about MOUNTAIN hunting, outside. I expected to get the usual jackass comments, but the serious among us will continue the discussion despite the noise.

PLEASE DO NOT DROP YOUR RIFLE

I remember reading that some British gunmaker liked to make their trigger pulls 1/2 the weight of the gun.Personaly I like them a little lighter and crisp.When I was younger I liked them a lot lighter and really enjoyed wishing off a shot,especially offhand.

You could be right, but here's a photo of this jackass on a mountain with a Stone's sheep and a M70 with a 2 1/2 pound trigger pull. Light trigger, mountains and M70's...you're expert on 'em all, right? Wanna share a pic or two of your mountain hunting adventures? Or even better, of your famous one-of-a-kind M70?

wow very nice ram, looks like someone has BTDT and has the pic to prove it...

Good post Rick and a sweet looking ram too!

I'd like to see those pics myself actually....

CLB

Nice ram, RickF. You could have posted that the first time. Your comments were more adult the second time, but I still wouldn't hunt with a trigger under 3 pounds. There is no advantage to it.

Thanks guys, I am very proud of him.

Lee, thank you. But why would I automatically post a pic of a sheep when the conversation is about trigger pull weights? Only when you challenged me that it was about mountain hunting did I feel the need to post a bit of my "resume".

Since you did that, and I shared a pic of me mountain hunting, I think it only courteous that you do the same. Please show us a pic of you mountain hunting somewhere so that we know that you are qualified to discuss this topic according to the guidelines you already laid out. ??

So if a 5 lb trigger pull isn't what you would consider safe, what do you set your trigger pull weights to.

Nice ram, Rick!

I might better delete my buck pic - we weren't on a mountain, just in the Texas Hill Country...and it wasn't much of a hill at that...

At least my Montana is a good mountain rifle, so maybe I'll leave it on that basis alone...grin.

I do regularly hunt some stuff that almost qualifies as mountains...



I even shot this piggie there, with a T3 lite 25-06 (almost a mountain rifle...grin), with a trigger a bit over 2lbs, and he was running like a...well, like a scared pig, I guess....grin.



He was quartering hard, going almost straight away from us at about 200 yards and going flat out - my dad was with me and we were sort of on the lookout for an eatin' size pig, so I didn't want to mess him up - I swung with him and touched it off about the tip of his nose and pretty well ear-holed him. Again, the nice trigger on the Tikka at a bit over 2 lbs made it easy to touch it off at the right time. It was fun to see my Dad sort of grin and go, "Huh, pretty fair shot!"

Not saying I wouldn't often blow that shot, but it was fun to make it that day, and I think a good, light, crisp trigger
helped.

Killed this old buck (again with the Kimber 7-08) on top near where the first photo was taken, but he was standing still. I was shaking enough for both of us....grin.



DJ

DJ, if it was up to me, I'd say leave the pic of the buck alone! Beautiful deer.

I tend to think that a light trigger pull helps on the flat land as well... For me, 2 pounds is the lower limit. Anything less than that can get tricky in cold temps.

Agreed. Around 2 is as low as I like them, and I can get along with them up to 3.5 if the trigger is wide and crisp.

I really do find on offhand shots, field positions, and shots where stuff is on the move, that the light triggers really help.
On mountain weight rifles, the less I have to disturb them to touch off the shot, the more likely it will go where I want.

That ram is really something - one of these days, one of these days...I hope!

DJ

All my hunting rifles are right around 2 Lbs. And just about every other Friday I eat a fish Burrito from Taco Del Sol that is right around a pound

I've never had an AD, I've never had one go boom unexpectadly, and if you're gunsmith can't do you up a 2 Lbs trigger that won't slam off or survive the drop test, shop around for a new gunsmith.

How good a mountain rifleman are you?

jim

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Very nice buck there DJ.

I'm usually at 3 to 3.5 with my rifles which usually go just over 7.5lbs. Not what is considered a mountain rifle by todays standards, but they have worked there.

For a ram like that I would wrestle just about anything up to where I had to be.

Here's my Stone ram, taken with my Wby. Mk.V. in .257- hardly a 'mountain rifle', a bit heavy for the 1500' vertical climb it took to get above this ram. Trigger pull on this rifle is 3 lb.

Bighorn
Great ram. Looks like your trigger pull works.

Great animals guys,love those Stones!

Didn't mean to mislead, I used the term "mountain rifle" as an adjective not a noun.

I figured a rifle used in conjunction with backpacks & horses might need a tad stiffer trigger than that used in a heated box blind for whitetail or that of a paper puncher.

The factory trigger on my Vanguard had a ridiculous amount of creep.

Timney is on it's way, 3 pounds sounds about right.

Thanks to all for your input!

I have mine set toward 4 pounds, but not over.

Hunting around here means cold weather always, heavy insulated gloves for me, and a lighter trigger means I cannot feel it enough to put tension on it without it going off. Probably could push it down toward 3 but have never felt the need to do so.

Have never found a heavier trigger improving anyones shooting... Have seen a ton in the opposite direction.

Never saw a need to for a hot chamber ahead of actually shooting so an AD is unlikely there. NEVER shoot with gloves, even WAY below zero. Never found shedding gloves, making the chamber hot and shooting to be cumbersome...

I like a very light trigger on my MR's, but I don't hunt with a hot chamber...

2-ish lbs. Depending.

2 1/4ish for BG..........substantially lighter for varmints.

This is like asking the "best shoe size" for all Campfire members.

some jerkers couldn appreciate a good trigger.

What is the best shoe size for mountain hunting?

I've never weighed a trigger, do they really add enough weight to the rifle to matter?

I'm still waiting for Lee's pictures!

Check the newspapers, it's faster........................

I can tell you how to adjust your triggers properly.

Pictures of dead animals don't tell a thing about how good or safe the trigger was. It's just an ego trip for some people.

So you don't really need to leave your PC to be an expert then? You insisted this was about "mountain hunting".

RickF, YOU are the one who asked about drop testing YOUR rifle from in front of YOUR computer. I think you should.

Lee 24,

Sorry if I offended you by posting a picture of a dead animal.
The original poster asked for thoughts on the best overall breaking weight for a mountain hunting rifle, and some of us with mountain hunting experience responded.

Doesn't matter to me if it is a 'mountain rifle', something light and portable, or if it is any rifle one chooses to use in mountain hunting- some of us actually do mountain hunting, and have years of experience doing so. If you want to challenge that experience, some of us have photos, stories, and witnesses to back it up.

Doesn't matter whether I'm seeking advice on firearms, or optics, or horseshoes- if the dispenser of knowledge has no practical experience, and the proof of same, the advice means little to me.

If those of us who post photos of game we have taken are egotistical, so be it. Call it what you will, but you can't challenge or question the fact that we have been there, or belittle the fact that we have done so.

I enjoy looking at photos of fish and game.
They don't mean anything about the proper trigger adjustment, though.

I even posted a photo of a 13-lb bass I caught along with 100 other pounds of bass I caught one evening. But it doesn't mean my drag setting was ideal. In fact, I was using 10-lb test line, so I was pushing my luck, just like some of those with 2-lb triggers.

But coming here, I am accustomed to how many people, before ever shooting their rifle, will adjust the trigger, install a new trigger, recrown the muzzle, and bed the stock or replace it with their favorite plastic one.

For Salmonella, all my hunting rigs run crisp 2.5-3lb trigger pulls fwiw.

MtnHtr

At least then, we'd have something in common we could discuss. I'll use mine in the field, you can wait for the pictures.

It's been said a thousand times on here, you are so completely, absolutely, obscenely full of [bleep].


Here's another one for you, we call these mule deer. Ruger M77 by the way... 2 1/4 pound trigger pull. Sorry if this pic offends you, but there are actually some hunters on this site, they may enjoy it.

Got a pic of that M70 yet?

Nice deer, but it doesn't mean a thing about your trigger being properly adjusted. A good shot could have done the same with a 10-lb trigger.

Safety is foremost, and it varies for each rifle. The weight of the trigger that is good for one shooter with very sensitive touch will not work for some other ham-handed shooter. It's like saying everyone should drive X miles per hour. You can't make that generalization. But it is a safe bet most people have no business driving 100 mph anytime, just like having a 2-lb trigger on a hunting rifle.

Agreed, I'm certain there are plenty of things you can't/shouldn't do.

Yup.

And I'm still waiting for pics of your famous M70.

Or, got any hunting pics you can share? Mebbe a squirrel you ran over on the way to therapy?

i guess the nurses lost their patient again. the docs going to be pizzed Lee24 escaped again

You're right, I shouldn't try to transfer knowledge or experience to a wooden Indian.

I've heard about them mirror computer screens.

C'mon Steelhead, the man wants to "transfer knowledge or experience"!

You know? There is no gremlin for falling on my ass laughing!

[/quote]

That is one heckuva buck!

My favorite trigger setting for cold weather and rough country runs right around 2.5 lbs. The kids get theirs set at 3 lbs.

Smart kids!

I've been using 2 pound triggers on my hunting rifles for 40 years. Cold weather doesn't affect my trigger pull. It's just a matter of what you get used to.

For me it comes back to the title of the thread.

I, personally, shoot a light rifle like crap with a heavier trigger. A mountain rifle is typically going to be on the light side. It's far easier for me to shoot a light rifle well with a light trigger. Hunting in mountains opens up the possibility of longer, cross-canyon shots. It's also easier, for me, to shoot accuratly at longer ranges with a light trigger.

My M7 .358 is my "up close and personal" rifle, and I run the trigger a little heavier. A bit over 3 lbs.

On the other end of the spectrum, my two target rifles have Jewell triggers set around 3-4 OUNCES.

But for a light rifle I might shoot far with, like my Montana, I run it right around 2 lbs and find that that's what works best for ME.

Trigger pull is just as personal as scope mounting, LOP, or whatever else, so I am certainly not gonna tell anyone else that my way is "best". If a person doesn't want, or trust, a light trigger then by all means they should do as they see fit.

Have you ever told the truth in your life?

Wow, the "Expert" has spoken again.


[bleep], I'm going to adjust all my triggers to 10 Lbs and learn how to REALLY shoot a rifle from Lee24. I'm pretty sure when he's not schoolin' Mid Tompkins and David Tubb he can fit me in.

I can't wait to see the now legendary M70 either...

Lee, you're absolutely full of schitt, as usual...

You didn't read my post, DanAdair, so you didn't learn anything.
I said a good shot can shoot a rifle with a 10-lb trigger better than an ordinary shooter can shoot with a 2-lb trigger.

I said trigger pull is a matter of individual taste.
Just be aware that mountain hunting is usually cold, and you may not be able to feel a trigger as well. Some triggers are wider than others, so the feel of the pressure is lighter than on a narrow trigger.

Most importantly, make sure your light trigger has not been adjusted to make it more prone to accidental discharge with dropped.

If you think any of those obvious truths are wrong, I don't care to hear it.

Lee,

You must drop a lot of rifles.....

In 30 years, I have never dropped a rifle while hunting or shooting. Your analogy is twisted. A good shot with a 10lb trigger...(who has a 10 lb trigger, I'm yet to see one).

Looks like RickF had no problems killing that big mulie with a light trigger in freezing azz conditions....MANY hunters do the same thing year after year.....

Anyone who is inclined to have a light trigger is going to do the right thing and make sure it's SAFE.

Is there anything you can "value add" or is it easier for you to keep taking a condescending approach with everyone.

CLB

Hunter killed when dropped rifle discharges accidentally

http://cnhinews.com/node/990

Such accidents happen often.
I try to learn from the experience of others, good and bad, instead of waiting to make the mistake myself.

I don't think there is any question that accidents happen from improperly adjusted triggers along with a host of other reasons as well. I do think that a "good shooter" will shoot better with a 2 lb trigger pull than he/she could shoot with the same rifle adjusted to a 10 lb trigger pull. Of course, that would be obvious to anyone who actually shoots anyway.

Lee,

If someone drops a rifle out of a tree stand, I'm not sure a 20lb trigger would keep it from going off........other than schitt happens every once and a while, what is your point? as I said before, SMART people know their guns are safe even if they have light trigger pulls as they have done their homework.

A gun dropping out of a tree stand has more to do with the person being a fuggin idiot....

I thought about adding more to my response to you, but I have concluded that if you have spent any real time in the field, you would know exactly what other people and I have been saying about the value of "light trigger pull". Keep to internet shooting and hunting as you just don't see the light.


CLB

A 10 lb. trigger can be just as unsafe as a 2 lb. trigger in the hands of an idiot, or out of the door of an incompetent gunsmith.

I'm sure we're about to get ten pages of your self-absorbed hot air on the subject. What a complete waste of band width..

I'm left wondering how he knew that?

Puzzling to be sure

Because he invented it.

I have attacked for other safety practices of mine.

Some fools attacked me for saying I wouldn't buy a "bright" scope in order to shoot the last minute at sunset.

Some fools attacked me for saying I don't shoot game on the skyline, or when I am not SURE of the background.

I guess this is he place where some people can enjoy saying things under a pseudonym that would get them laughed out of a pool hall. They ridicule others for having more common sense, more experience, and better skills than they have. Then they expect to be treated with respect. Like Hell.

Salmonella,

The where and the weight of a rifle makes no difference to me if it is a hunting rifle. I want about twenty-five ounces creep free.

Pseudonyms in a pool hall? You've never backed up even ONE of your bullshit claims when called.

Your lies would get you thrown out of that pool hall's window into the gutter before you got through your first wine cooler.

I guess that article I posted about the rifle firing when dropped was one of those "lies".

I'll take your word about pool hall life. I don't go to them.
But I figured some of these angry yokels spend more time there than at the range. They wouldn't dare say the stupid stuff they post here in a pool hall.

Easy solution - google a picture of one, post it, and then claim you've been there. And that you invented them.

You know, your usual bullshit.

"Loco" is a good pseud for you.
Since you never said which fact of mine about trigger adjustment it is you are calling a "lie", I can't help you with your problem.

Generally, when I post a picture I took, sane people recognize that I was there, and that the object in the photo was there, too.

Crazy enough to see you as the pathological liar you are...

So tell me - who are the "sane" people here or anywhere else that believe anything you post? Or do they just reside in your head, along with your other mental illnesses?

No one can help you, if you cannot articulate what it is that upsets you so. I feel sorry for you. Leave your guns alone.

Who are the sane people who believe anything you post? Just post a link to ANY thread where ANYONE doesn't treat you with absolute derision.

I'm looking forward to those links.. Please include the picture of your famous M70, too.

I have found out that Lee24 is actually a member of PETA who only comes here to disrupt our online exchange of info.

My source also indicated that Lee24 is a lesbian,makes sense to me.

That is why so many here have Lee on ignore.

Lee24 makes JeffO look like the voice of reason!

If you guys disagree with the way I set my triggers, try to explain why, without shouting and foaming at the mouth.

If you have some knowledge or experience to add, that would be interesting, too.

Lee24 makes Jeff O sound like a neocon and a scope mounting expert.

Thanks for your most informative post ever, ruraldoc!

We can all use that information to adjust the triggers on our mountain rifles.

Lee, not for nothing, but the original poster asked a very simple question of the membership and excluding yourself that's exactly what he got. It appeared, and I could be wrong, that when you offered up your intent was to tell all how wrong they all are. The only constructive statement I saw from you was something to the effect that trigger pull weights are a matter of "individual choice. Perhaps, you could step away from your finger pecking Googled experience and take notes from the members here who actually have first hand experience. Your statement about triggers having "mass" only suggests that you are basing and imposing theory to gentlemen who have been there and done that. I have little doubt that you are a smart individual, but alot of your statements over the years suggest your lack field skills. As a wise man said, "with all your knowledge, you should focus more on asking questions, not answering them. Afterall, I don't argue with folks who know way more than I and I find myself listening more than giving, with the possible exception of hunting optics. This is a good place to learn and I suggest you do the same. OTOH, I have seen you offer up some really good info on rifle history and other technical aspects of firearms. Just some food for thought, Lee.

Roy

Ironbender and RuralDoc... Bite me!

Some of you ball-busters need to decide if personal preferance trumps some nominal "right" way of doing stuff, or not. Because some of you are contradicting the position you took regarding scope mounting. Just... SAYIN'...

My take on triggers is consistant with my take on scope mounting. Barring something grossly unsafe, personal preferance and experience kick butt all over some Internet dude saying what's right or isn't right for someone else.

I shoot WAY better with a 2-lb trigger than a 3.5-lb trigger. On the other hand for some ham-fisted guys even 3.5 lbs would be too light. To each their own.

Jeff,

Since you are neither a neocon nor a scope mounting expert,my comments were in jest and directed not at you but at Lee24.

Maybe you can get Lee to bite you.

i'd say 3 lbs + or -.

my rifles have jewels set at 1#

I'd say you want it as light as you can. Ounces count on a mountain rifle.

Can they skeletonize a trigger?

What about that metal housing; I bet you could strip her off there and save a little weight?

Sorry... I just couldn't resist!

Seriously... I think that around 3# is safest for a hunting rifle. Target or varmint rifle is something different.

I like a 1-1.5lb trigger and it aint exactly balmy where I hunt.

RDFinn,
Thanks for the advice. Some of my friends saw it and had a good laugh. Since you aren't a good judge of field skills over the Internet, let me brief you.

I grew up ranching and farming, and still own over 1,000 acre farm.
I have been shooting since I was six, hunting since I was 9, was duck hunting guide at 14. Shooting as much as 100 rounds a day for decades, I have shot all sorts of rifles, pistols and shotguns, and owned over 200. My last year of competitive handgun shooting, my average was over 97% in all events.

I am an engineer, and have performed R&D for Remington, H&K, Ingram, and many small accessory manufacturers. Not a week goes by that I am not tinkering with some new idea or a modification to some firearm. Right now, it is new synthetic stock for bolt action rifles.

I am sure someone will call me a liar, or say it may be true but counts for nothing. Since they don't have a clue what they are talking about, it doesn't mean spit to me.

I like 8lb hammers and 3lb triggers.
Strong fingers.

+1 for three pounders....
2.5 lbs on the Varmint guns...
Ingwe

Word....(grin)

I've always run hunting rifles at 2.75 lbs and varminters at 2.25 lbs... go figure

Great minds think ALMOST alike
Ingwe

True That!

I like all my BG rifles at around 3#-maybe a touch lighter.

Please don't ask for details but there is nice pronghorn running around that owes it to a light trigger/cold paws.
Talk about flubbing an easy shot......I'm just glad it wasn't the poobah mulie.

The poobah mulie is bulletproof..
Ingwe

Not only is he bulletproof, he's also invisible.

One of these days...

He has been invisible to me for many moons...
Ingwe

Ah [bleep], I know better than that Ingwe. Pretty sure I've seen your mug and a couple good bucks in some pics...

That wasn't me...it was my stunt double..and the deer was an inflatable...
Ingwe

Lemme guess, 1974 blew it up for you???

(grin)

My Vanguard trigger was awful, and I traded it in. I didn't think of an aftermarket trigger! Depending on how much bolt stop you've got showing, you're going to get a certain amount of sear engagement and travel. I had to replace one to get a half pound out of my Jewel two ounce trigger. It'd slip without it when I drop the bolt handle. I have to give my gunsmith's recommendation for a 3 pound trigger, but the trigger's got to hold. I have a tendency to let my gunsmith buy my triggers and install them. I've got a lot of 2 1/2 and 3 pound triggers on my hunting rifles too.

Noooo....but I hear he really blows...
Ingwe

Did all the other girls on the cheerleading team want to be just like you too?

cwh2, why do you feel compelled to post in topics where you have no experience or insight to contribute?

2.5 lbs, to 3.5 lbs. Any heavier, and it just don't feel right. Any lighter, and I'm thinkin' it ain't a good thing either.

YMMV.

And, now that Liar24 has shown up (why has this turd not been flushed?), let's see if he can post up some pics of him tuning a trigger on that Model 70 Winchester Safari .375H&H roll stamped "Made in Columbia, SC".

You know, the one that WINCHESTER says they've never made and THEY want pics and SN of, too.

I have asked several times for the trolls to provide me with the name, address, telephone number and e-mail address of the PERSON at Winchester who supposedly told them that my rifles don't exist.

I would like to show them how to adjust the trigger on a Winchester Model 70.

It's not a lie if YOU believe it.

Pics and SN of the rifle.

You've been asked repeatedly for this, and it just doesn't exist. You know it, as does anyone else with a brain.

Consider that the Winchester production supervisor with whom I spoke directly wanted to see the pics as well, and wanted the SN so verify EXACTLY what that rifle was when it left their plant, and to track it down, since in his words "if someone is rollstamping "Winchester" on a barrel, and it isn't us, we definitely want to know who that is."

So, pics of the rifle, if you have them.

Put up, or STFU.

Why can't you provide the contact information for this alleged "Winchester production supervisor"? The fact that Winchester was already shut down at the time you claim to have talked with him may be part of the problem.

How about a photo of him, too.

More to the topic, why can't you discuss triggers on mountain rifles, and move your hate posting to its own thread. I will be glad to visit and slap you around.

Wrong again, dipschit.

Post the pics, or STFU.

And, your homoerotic fantasies of slapping another guy's meat around, ain't necessary. Feel free to leave those out.

As to the triggers, as the OP requested, already replied to.

Lee
CWH2 happens to have hunted black bears with my 14-year-old son last fall and had an encounter with a too-close brown bear AFTER they killed a black bear. Happens to have been on a rather steep and long mountain. Both were carrying mountain rifles. My son thought CWH2's Kimber was too heavy after carrying the 7x57 he was using...

And you want folks to believe you have a clue about mountain rifles and he does not...

Want to guess whether I would allow you to hunt with my son?

I still crack up over your walnut erudition from all your time down in the grove...
art laughing

Can someone please tell me why a pathological lying troll is still here?

His Mom doesn't know?

Good ole Liar24............

Still no pics I see of the infamous SC model 70's.

This is what a picture looks like Lee.....




Those go to FN model 70's, of which none will be Safari Express, Super Express, or Super Grades.

Your knowledge of triggers is only trumped by your ability to lie through your teeth.

While your claiming to have done research and development for Winchester, please provide the engineers you've worked with there.......timeframes wouldn't hurt either.
Careful now, I might just know one or two. Feel free to name drop any and all fellers or ladies that you know that worked there.

For the record, if a trigger can't be adjusted down safely to 2lbs., with zero creep, I'll replace it with one that will, or simply not own the firearm that would house such a contraption.

I've also found that carrying nice and cold keeps me from having AD's with boring regularity.

triggerguard,
Can you name this mystery man at Winchester?
I won't hold my breath.

My take on trigger weight, for the very little it's worth, is that I like my triggers to be consistent to the degree possible. I don't want to have one at 4lbs and another at 2. I've not measured the weight on every trigger, but the ones I have were right in the 2.25 - 2.5 lb range, and I try to keep them all consistent by feel. That goes for all rifles, mountain and otherwise, but the heaviest rifle I own is probably a factory mag contour with a 26 inch barrel.

There have been triggers that I could not get down to that range safely and without creep, and they were yanked out and worked on or replaced with aftermarket or with other adjusted factory triggers.

Practice with one rifle then applies more equally to all other rifles, in my way of thinking.

Sitka,
I didn't pretend to guess what you or CWH2 knows about hunting.
He obviously knows nothing about me, and his snotty talk about others not having experience is laughable. Why don't you folks keep that trash talk out of here, on your street corner?

Can you name any of the engineers you supposedly worked with at Winchester?

Of course you can't..........

Put up some proof (starting with that Winchester M70 .375 Safari, roll stamped "Made in Columbia, SC"), or STFU.

Pretty damned simple, really. Even for you, you lying sack of rotten dog schit.............

It's pretty obvious you guys never talked to anyone at Winchester about my rifles. You're busted. Let's move on to your next embarassment.

I have a name, his capacity at Winchester, and his direct number.

Post the rifle pics with SN, you lying son of a motherless goat, and those will get forwarded IMMEDIATELY, as they still contend such does not exist or at the very least THAT WINCHESTER NEVER MADE IT!

You can't prove you have it, because either it doesn't exist, or it's a fake.

Given my contacts, and I'm sure Matt Williams' contacts, your ass will be made as soon as any pics surfaced.

You know it, and yet you're too big of a pathological liar to admit you've been made.

Why does this sound EXACTLY like "Give me your load?" How is it the arguments are identical in their lack of basics and terminology?

Same:same? Same wiring:same wiring?

"I win!" sounds pretty hollow in so many places...
art

RickF, tiggerguard, VANimrod and others -

just a word from the sidelines - worth what it cost you.

"If you wrestle a pig in the mud, you will get dirty - whether you win or not."

Timneys set to 1 kg (roughly 2 lps +) on my Mausers - Kermit



being the closesed I own to a mountain rifle - 6mm Remington.

That oughta shoot a right good ways up the side of a mountain.........

Too bad the mods can't permanently bestow this as Liar24s avatar, 'cause he's damned sure earned it:

Take a real good look at the picture I posted and then ask yourself, "does this guy possibly know someone at Winchester?"

Now, I'll even let you steal that picture to prove you know how to package and ship, or engineer, or even machine parts, just so you have something credible to add to a thread.

I'll post a picture of 1 of the 4 CNCs I have on the floor, so you can claim you run those too.


I'll even state once again that I've got a real model 70 that's yours free when you show me that rollstamp in a picture, with your mug. I'll throw in some bottom metal, new extractor, and a month's supply of Tucks Medicated Pads to soothe that soreness that must be most overwhelming by now...


Oink....Oink....Oink.

3lbs no creep.

Lee24, I betcha that you could have one of those special 375hh marked made in Columbia, SC made for you in China. You could then hold your head high.

I don't know you but I do probably have one of last 375HH model 70 made in New Haven I purchased it at a walmart in Fairbanks about 1 year after the New Haven plant closed down. It is a stainless steel 375 hh with synthetic stock.

I will show you a picture of my gun, if you show me a picture of yours.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Lee 24, I live about 2 hours North of the FN plants in SC. Send me the pictures of your .375 and I will drive down to the plant and show them to any person you designate in order to once and for all corroborate your story.


Put up or Shut Up

Heck I'm willing to throw it into one of the boxes that I ship to them weekly.........Save ya the gas.

It'd be worth the gas to see proof positive of this mythical Winchester.

Go [bleep] yourself, Art.

In that case, TryMe said he had a load that would do certain things, then got all wierd about posting the particulars- AFTER about 70+ pages of crowing about how his load trumped all. Since loading manuals say that RL15 nets about 2525 fps at max pressure, from a 26" barrel, and TryMe was claiming a full 2700 fps from a 22" barrel, I am for THINKING that something was screwy there, and within the context of the pissin' match it was entirely appropriate to press for the specifics of that load. And, in fact, seeing TryMe squirm and dodge and fail to produce the load confirmed that it was WAY overpressure and over-length, too.

Which you would agree with, if you didn't have your head up TryMe's butt.

So you are damn right that I'll declare victory when the other guy

a) is shown a competing load (for .308) that functionally equals the one he's pimping, AND

b) then refuses to even give the basic loading data for his supposed load, about which the whole pissing match was based.

By the way, Art, you yourself sure got weasely when it was time to actually explain whether you were advocating that a person slide their head all over the stock "chasing" the image of a variable eye relief scope... OR that they place their head so far forward as to compromise the eye box a low power settings. It's one or the other, there ain't no third choice to be had, and when confronted by that, you just fell into your "yer so stoopid!" routine. Yawn.

Finally, if you'd like me to clean your clock on the "black around the image" actually helping with parallax as a little bonus to my preferred way of shooting, which is to maintain a consistant cheek weld and accept the vignetting, I'd be happy to, but that's another one you conveniently went into your "yer so stoopid" mode on. Yawn.

As to this particular pissing match that you all are in, have at it. I've said my piece- that a trigger set at 2-ish pounds works best for me, and that I think Lee24 is wrong to state that HIS way is the best way. Beyond that, this isn't my fight, and if you guys would just keep my [bleep] name out of it, you can have it all to yourselves.

That much sand in your mangina has to hurt, huh, Jeff_Obama..........

A peep scope...........why didn't someone think of that before...

lmao.............

Peep scope:


Perfect, for azz-shootin'.

More, of the same:



It could only get better, if Liar24 designed that mount profile himself.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=29&Number=2951252

Manginas and peep scopes.....

I had yet to look at this thread but thought it must be informative as it stays near the top. Guess I was wrong. (grin)

I'm waiting for the trifecta.

That anything like the shocker?

George

lmao..............

Didn't see that one coming.................

You'll see, just give it time.

Not quite the Showstopper, but probably better than the Shocker....

triggerguard,

I can't imagine how you think your picture of a pile of scrap "proves" anything about your connections to Winchester.

FYI, I never said my rifle was made as part of the current FN production, in Greenville, SC and Columbia, SC. My rifle was assembled after FN acquired Winchester from the French investors, during the disarray in New Haven. If you don't know that part of Winchester history, look it up.

And no one said you couldn't adjust a trigger, so don't start huffing and puffing.

And none of you ill-mannered brats have disputed a thing I said about trigger weights. Others here have said the same things, and offered examples from their own experience. You just don't like me, because I stand up to your bullying and call your BS, and your butts still hurt from the last kicking.

Numbrod,
It's obvious you never talked to anyone at Winchester, but you surely won't shut up. You'll be shouting about something irrelevant.

Prove your rifle exists. Pics of the rifle, and SN, for verification.

Put up, or STFU, Liar24.

Depends on each person but I like mine set at 2.75 to 3.25. I'm not a real big fan of super light triggers on hunting guns. With cold weather and gloves I like to feel the trigger not just have it go off.

Me, too, 17.

Jeff O
I have you on ignore and enjoy having your useless drivel there. When Sean posted it I read it and laughed... So, let me make this very freaking clear, again.

No, you cannot have my load!

Oh, sorry, you were begging for another man's load...

I did not get weasely at all about chasing images around on a scope. The few variables I have do not require anything like a chase. If you had ever looked through a properly mounted scope you might have some idea what I am talking about.

Until then it is beyond obvious you are freaking clueless about the simple dynamics of scope mounting. Having mounted hundreds of scopes... and certainly better than you are capable of, by all accounts... I do not think I need to explain anything to anyone dipschit enough to first mount your scope and then defend the work.

As to the basic load issue as I tried to explain politely previously, you are clueless about the basics of physics, logic, argumentation and debate. That is to mate up with your scope mounting abilities...
art

There you have it Lee....

A way to finally set the record straight. You have been called out by at least 30-40 people if not more....

A real man would take the opportunity to step up and hit it out of the park. The fact that you have not jumped at that opportunity, allows for only one rational summation...

That being you are a fuggin LIAR.....

CLB

Bingo....we have a winner!!!!

Lee, please take notes on this point...this is a pure and simple straight forward fact.

CLB

Aw, gee, thanks, CLB? Have you driven past Michael Jackson's house, too? LOL!

FYI, "2 hours north of the FN plant" would put you well into NORTH Carolina. Check your map before posting next time.

I will actually be in FN soon on business, so if I find anyone there who was around when my rifle was made, I will talk to them. Most of them are not familiar with Winchester prior to two years ago.

Meanwhile, the nameless Winchester contacts claimed by my detractors will remain vaporware.

In other words, Liar24 remains full of schit, can provide no evidence as to the Winchester M70 .375H&H rollstamped "Made in Columbia, SC", because it doesn't exist.

BTW - dumbphuck, what Matt Williams posted, is a pile of extractors and bottom metal floor plates THAT HIS COMPANY MAKES AND SELLS TO WINCHESTER ON A WEEKLY BASIS!

I would presume that he ought to have pretty good contacts WITH ONE OF HIS BIGGEST CLIENTS.

You remain a pathetic pathological liar.

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3136631#Post3136631

BTW - no [bleep]' schit, huh?

No Schit Sherlock. I do live inside the borders of NC.

I offer you an opportunity to easily prove all your claims about this phantom .375 and all you can do is duck and dive thus confirming once and for all that your are just a cowardly, spineless, lying son of a shoat.

VA, and hillbilly -
Neither of you know anyone at FN, nor do you have any access to the factory.

VA, it was YOU who claimed to have talked to "someone at Winchester" about my rifle(s). See your own posts. You made it up. Don't try to pass it off to Williams.

FN may be small compared to some of my clients, but they all are important to me, especially those arming our military.

Post the pics and proof of your rifle (that doesn't exist), you worthless scum sucking piece of rotten dog schit, or GTFO.

Why are you so upset about my rifles?
You have challenged me on others, I posted the pictures, and you slinked off without apologizing.

You don't know anyone at Winchester or FN.
You don't know much about Model 70 Safari and African models.

If you can't discuss mountain rifle triggers, you are in the wrong thread. Quit stinking it up. This is my last post humoring you here.

Post the never-made Winchester M70 .375H&H rollstamped "Made in Columbia, SC", or STFU and GTFO.

That pile of "scrap" is a week's worth of production for FN's model 70 line that is over three times your yearly gross salary as Fry Engineer at BK, so try to keep up and pay attention.



Fortunately, since my dealing with Winchester/FN have spanned over 17 years, I'm not forced to guess about what happened or is happening at any of their facilities. My first contact with the new FN program on these rifles dated back to November of 2006. My first visit to their plant was in April of 2007...Long before you or the rest of the general public had any idea as to their intentions of a model 70 reintroduction.

I know every player in that business from past to present....From purchasing, accounting, as well as engineering.


The fact remains that you lied and are still lying about the existence of a Super Grade, Safari Express, or Super Express rifle that has a roll stamp of Columbia, SC on the barrel in 375 H&H, purchased from some make-believe retail outlet within the FN Facility that no shmuck such as yourself would be allowed in, which is why your only move last time was to post pictures that were someone else's, claiming they were yours.

The offer still stands LIAR24.........

FREE SUPER EXPRESS MODEL 70 IN 416 REM. MAG FOR THE FIRST PERSON, INCLUDING LIAR WHO CAN PROVIDE PROOF OF THIS SOUTH CAROLINA ROLLSTAMPED 375 BARREL.


Ya got nothing to loose and the offer has been on the table for nearly a year and you can't produce. I'll even throw in a "scrap" extractor, a "scrap" trigger guard, "scrap" barrel band swivel base, "scrap" stock swivel base, and an unfinished Safari Express stock straight out of Italy, so you can finish it just the way you like.

Now, get on that photoshop jushitzu and get something worked out......

In my manufacturing plants, we neatly stack production work in trays. Only scrap is piled up. Different worlds.

April 2007? That is fairly recent.
I actually posted that the Model 70 would resume production at FN in SC, as early as the fall of 2006. FN was already building the Model 70 as their tactical rifle. I shot one of them in Columbia in 2006.

I have been in the FN facility a few times since it was first built. FN invited me for an interview in 1976, and I went, after having designed a stock for HK. I was already headed to graduate school.

You haven't posted a photo of your .416 Model 70, but I don't want one, anyway. I'm all set for big rifles.

If you ever run into anyone from Winchester who knows the Model 70 Safari variations, please pass along their name. Or give it to VAnimrod, so he can pretend he talked to them.

You've now been added to the pathological liar list.................

Who the hell do you think you're kidding? Do you think that I wouldn't know when that facility was built?

With any luck, your mom will take away your internet time again and send you back to the basement.


Your compounding of one lie after the next is astounding, but it is a train wreck that's hard not to watch.

Since you say you hadn't been in FN until April 2007, I have almost a 30 year jump on you. Maybe you can ask someone when the facility was finished and opened. What were you doing then, riding a Big Wheel?

Sitka Deer,

That you are flat WRONG about some vignetting serving no useful purpose as far as parallax reduction at longer ranges is, simply, the truth. I can prove it, and you know it, so you continue to weasel.

That you are avoiding directly answering the simple question of whether you advocate chasing the image forward as the eye relief shortens, OR accepting a serious compromise in low-power eye box, is likewise weasely. And since you are flat WRONG to assert that there's any third alternative, and I can prove it (Leupold 2.5x8 is the test scope), and you KNOW it, you continue to weasel.

All of which I could care less about; you have every right to be wrong, and certainly every right to mount a scope on your rifles as you see fit. What I do care about is your continual public shots at me, and I will continue to point out that you are flat WRONG, and acting like a chickenshit about it, as long as you continue to drag my name into discussions like this that don't involve me- which you did, once again, here.

Or, Art, we could take this to the Optics Forum and politely debate it. In fact, I'll sweeten the deal. Meet me there, and we'll sort it out, and if you can show I'm wrong, I'll leave the Campfire for a month. If I can prove I'm right (which I can, and will, and you know it which is why you'll weasel out of this), you will promise to quit your [bleep] whiney little public attacks on me.

What do you say? Got any hair down there?

-jeff

Your flagrant attempt at trying to bestow any knowledge about the FN facility upon the masses falls as short as your roll stamp that we all know doesn't exist.

The dates you've now referenced twice are proof enough, though I had plenty a year ago of how utterly full of BS you are.

I doubt a single member of this forum, given the opportunity to own a Classic Winchester would turn down the bet, had the aforementioned item been within their grasp......Likewise, I wouldn't offer up a rifle such as that, without knowing damn well that there's zero chance you could produce the proof.

No matter how much wishy-washy excuses or name dropping, geographical nuances, or bad compasses that you throw into this topic, you'll still slither away as a Liar in the highest order.

While we've all known that you did more than stretch the truth, the subject matter at hand wasn't nearly as important as the fact that some poor unsuspecting member of this forum might actually believe your utter nonsense on a more serious matter, like reloading data. Worse yet, some poor sap might actually send you money for an item you claim to have, only to be ripped off, though you'll deny the charge, claiming the postal service, ups, or the Budweiser horse carrier service was to blame.

If a guy will lie about something so trivial, then adamantly back up the lie with more lies, he'll likely do most anything for anything, to anyone. Your character is more than flawed on a grandiose scale. Treatment is probably an exercise in futility, though a skinny dip in the fry basket at work could do wonders.

You and Jeff should share trade secrets on all things firearms. Perhaps you could shed some light on his peep scope design and manufacture and engineer a 5" cheek weld so other normal folks could enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Perhaps just flip the scope 180 and save all the fuss, but I'm no engineer and I'd best leave it to you fellers to decipher was path of entrepreneurial ship to make your fortune on.

You boys are on a goldmine.

*** You are ignoring this user ***

Here ya go, Artsy! Damn this place!

I used to think ol' Lee was an overeducated, yet intelligent man that was badly misunderstood.

My thinking has swapped ends - that'd be a 180* change.

Dear Mr. Lee24,

This is the barrel stamp on my Model 70 375 HH classic made in New Haven.

Now you can show me yours.

Sincerely,
Thomas

You were just a state stamp away from a new rifle right there..............

No flipping way you have 100lbs of bass there in addition to the 13.2 pounder. (and I am doubting that weight as well) And don't give us any crap about you only kept this bunch - because I see some minnows there and you wouldn't toss the larger to keep the smaller.

that bass might go 6-7 lbs tops the others are minnows

Maybe he meant 13.2 lbs combined?

Here's a 47 pound redfish I caught near Ketchikan, AK (El Ni�o year)

bender
Great, you are the one forcing me to call the idiot an idiot...

But I think I will just weasel out of this one and pretend J Obama is right and every tenet of scope mounting and use is outdated... Yah verrily, eclipsed, I say eclipsed, by the use of parallax to maintain head position.

Since your ear is bound to get tired hanging out there off the end of the recoil pad it may as well be held steady there with "chin" weld and parallax.

or not...
art laughing

PS 30 days is not nearly long enough...

I used to think Lee was just a troll. Now I think he honestly believes his BS and is a sick, sick person.

this is a 50# king i got a few years back

107 pound dolphin caught with a 2 weight fly rod

teal,
If you read the original post, those bass on the table are just the ones we kept to eat. The big one is 29 inches long.

this my 200# sail that really was caught 2 miles off the beach in 35ft of water.you can see the shore line in the back ground

78 pound flounder caught in Lake Michigan

lee the table those fish are on is no more than 4ft across. theres no way that bass is 29 inchs long

The table is 60 inches across. The knife is 12 inches long.

St. John's river Bluegill

If I go fishing this weekend, I'll lay the fish on a yardstick and take a picture for those of you who have never seen a bass over 5 lbs, and can't judge size. The boys from the South won't need the yardstick.

Hell, might as well snap a pick of that Winchester whilst you are at it......

Most of the yahoos wouldn't know what they were looking at.

caught this great white on a mono leader while i was fishing for ling

Walleye

Not likely.

Even if we are to believe that this fish is 29 inches long - it won't make 13 lbs in weight. No way.

Using this calculator (go down to bass specific one) it would have to have a girth of 19 inches to be 13.32 lbs. That fish isn't only 10 inches skinnier than long (assuming the 29 inches is true)

Mepps figures a girth of 20 inches with a length of 29 to get 13 lbs

The "average" girth for a fish that size (and most charts don't go to 29 inches for bass due to the EXTREMELY unlikely possibility you have one that big) is 16.82 inches, that gives you about 10 lbs at best. Here.

The body type of a bass would have to be "large for class" at 29 inches and 18 inches of girth to get you 13 lbs here. That fish isn't.

The world record fish (large for class body type) was a bit over 32 inches long and weighed 22 pounds. Yet yours is only 3 to 4 inches shorter and 10lbs less?



This is a Field and Stream photo of a 13 lb bass (caught by the same guy who got the world record) It is at 13 lbs and much larger in girth than your fish.



Sources

That's 4 different length to weight calculators all showing about what would be needed to get a 29 inch bass to 13 lbs - yours doesn't measure up.

Liar24,

Like I said in my post. If you where legit, you would have closed the deal by posting the picture. There are many "good" engineers who post here that I learn from routinely. The only degree you have is in TROLLING. VA, Matt and the boys had you pegged from day one!! The only real thing i think you have ever invented is that twisted demented state of mind in your fuggin head.....

Lee - she has a 22 inch waist - your bass isn't 3 inches smaller.

Don't matter whether it's fish, firearms, or fry sauce, he wouldn't know the truth if it kicked him in the arse.

Williams, you and VAnimrod have had over 2 years to come up with the names of the people you claim to know at Winchester. You were bluffing. Pull up your pants.

Other people don't have any problem getting me to post pictures, just those who insult me first, and then demand that I do this and do that.

Gosh! It's after your bedtime. Sorry to keep you up.
Get an adult to read the yardstick for you, on my next fish.

Yup, just like "Give me your load!"

Excellent caption for the pic....

I do what I can Art. This has been too funny to let it end now!

My profession precludes the need for me to namedrop, where your reputation demands it...........Big difference.

The names that nearly everyone on this site knows I can provide, would simply allow you to carry out your strange fetish on some other site, with even more ammo to lure in the unsuspecting idiot.

Nothing you can do now, short of providing that picture will ever make you anything less than a liar..........In other words, you'll always be a liar.

Reread the original thread where I politely baited you in and asked nicely to see a picture.........You attacked my credibility, though reading comprehension was never your strongpoint.....

That's Check Mate douche bag.............

You are playing the name-dropping game. That is all you do.

If you really had a contact at Winchester who said the things you claim, you would have fed it to VAnimrod long ago, so he could pretend he wasn't making up his yarn about talking to "someone at Winchester".

WR 40 lb. bass - caught on kite string handline and marshmallow. It ain't hard..

"Hey Dad!! Liar24's scale says my Brookie weighs 13 pounds!"

Nice striper. Makes me want to go catch a mess of 20 pounders.

Easy for you to do on google images..

I'll put the latest newspaper or magazine beside the next fish and yardstick, with a note to the Campfire, maybe even to you.

You'll still be in denial, because I can't solve your inferiority issues. My posts will only make that worse.

Actually Liar, all I do is things like this.........







Though you wouldn't understand, I'm not forced to guess on much...............

The M70 will do.. Save you from buying a paper.

I'd doubt that anything beyond a Kindergarten ruler would be necessary for your trophy, though the lack of pictures with credibility, regardless of subject matter is astounding at the very least.

It would give him an opportunity to read something new for a change while on break at BK.............

Nor do you, Lee24.

cfj2, that is just you punk talking. You sound like triggerguard.

You don't KNOW who I know, or what I do for a living.
You wouldn't understand it if I wrote it out for you.

Maybe I should take some photos of my next visit there, to go along with my next little fishing trip. More to put you into denial.

Liar, you're the only guy that would turn down a free $1,000 rifle when all you'd have to do is post a pic...........

We'd all go away and it would be internet history and I'd be out a rifle I've never fired.

Imagine the sweet, sweet victory..............


Of course there's one teency, weency problem.........You don't have the rifle in question to take a picture of.

Damn the luck ehh?

Pull that lever and put us all out of our misery............(grin)

cfj2, that my friend was helluva compliment.................(grin)

..Still looking for a print of a big Yellow Eyed Rockfish I got on a pole spear so I can get in on this.....It takes a hell of a rockfish or bass to weigh 13#.

I used to vary trigger pull weights but have went to setting everything at 3lbs for big game. We use trigger pull weght to set it. FWIW the lightest rifle I regularly shoot is about 7.0#. If it got below 7# I would likely lower the pull weight to 2-2.5#.

I caught the twin to Liar's fish at Crane Prairie Res. on the opening morning of trout season, though I neglected to take a pic(no need....Liar taught me that)..........It went just under 8lbs. and was 21"..........

It did eat good though, but fillets is limited on bass, for the size that they can get.

Some crappie fillets out of Lake Fork...

37 pound Hammerhead off a pier...

Snapping turtle from the Trinity River...

3 1/3 pound alligator gar...




This is fun...grin...

13# halibut on a 2wt fly rod and number 16 Adams dry from a local spring creek.

Riley with 3 bass that netted 100# of fillets...

13# Dolly Varden.

I took it as a complement. I thank God every morning I wasn't born Lee. Punk isn't proper, sophisticated language, Lee. Sounds more like the cook room at Burger King to me.

235# halibut also caught on a number 16 Adams...

Those "bass" have the same expression that Liar is wearing right now looking at this thread.

I hope you do not think Lee's face is red like them, though... No shame and all...

Still no explanation on how his fish weighs 13 lbs yet no less than 4 calculators based on his own length (assuming it's true) say it ain't so.

Who the [bleep] cares.


You ladies need to find a life.

Here's a great length reference shot.

FWIW I hear he goes 19"....

dude...

Looks like its gonna be one of "those" nights.....

Ingwe

lee will probably claim he can put that horse to shame

28# Channel Cat I caught a couple years back.

this is a cow elk the whipper snapper shot

I don't much care about picking on lee but this is funny.

Sam,

TFF! Did you fluff him or just hold the tape? grin

lion killed with stick and string

Nothing like a 'shot' of some horse wang to shush the bitches...(laughin'!)

that was funnier than he!!

Crude but effective...(or so I hear....grin)

Crude but very effective...
LMAO!

Sam, that "thang" looks effective, but if you wanna really talk about alot of bull and BIG hangie-downie thingies...

Ingwe

As usual, the thread dies when those of you who have nothing to say about the topic stink it up with their nonsense.

There, thats better.

cmg; thanks for fixing that!
Ingwe

Most welcome, Ingwe.

Happy forth of July to you.

You just had to go there with the elephant....(grin)

Yeah, Happy 4th!

Poor Liar cries like a little bitch when it isn't about him anymore.

Besides that nonsense.. Bull elephants blush when they see MY rig.

More like a bull.....field mouse...(grin)

[bleep].... Sammers, I've been missing the PM brew crew since I been stuck working 'till 1AM.

So we went from 7 Vs 30, to fish Vs swinging horse cocks.

Only the Senator from Montucky could pull that off

Senator...Senator..
Sam, you've been promoted!
Now...get to work on some of those gun laws!!!...
And a mistress!
Ingwe

Well givin the picture of Fred, I'd say he's President




One things for sure... If Larry pops up a third time, I'll just post a photo of a horse-cock after each of his posts...

That ain't Fred, just some random crap I found on photobucket. You think I'd actually take a pic like that?
Perverts....

I do believe it's time for a drink. How about you Ingwe, still on the wagon???

Yep, but I'm having dinner with JB Sunday, so that whole plan could fall to pieces...
tip up an extra for me...if your belly can take it!!!
Ingwe

Sammo is doin' just fine.. His lovely wife was baking him an apple pie last I saw.

Newlyweds.. Sheesh.

RL; While hes busy being a newlywed, why don't you tip up a cold one for me..?
I'm pretty much on the wagon till I can see my belt buckle...without taking the belt off...
Ingwe

Twisting my arm to take advantage of those sale priced Kokanee 12 packs at Heebs? I'll guess I'll just have to fill in for you, you sorry reprobate...

Yep, life is rough!

Kokanees! On SALE! I think my wagon stops there!
Sam, we are feelin' sorry for you...
BTW, you aren't the first to call me a reprobate...I'm starting to see a pattern...
Ingwe

Well working Swing and not working out (Kalispell needs a 24 hour gym/club) and drinking beer and eating supper at 1:30 isn't treating my waistline good either. I'm thinking I'll just be a Weekend Warrior now...

Don't get me wrong, I've always had a little beer gut, but now I'm getting out of shape

Sammers...

If you can mini-ize that photo, I'll use it for an avatar

Dan; just like the T-shirt says; Round is a Shape.

That being taken into account...I'm in shape!
Ingwe

Well, I'm hoping they're wrong about when the market conditions turn around. I'm thinking Graveyard Lathe Bitch sounds pretty good now (at least then you can hit the gym for an hour before the bar opens)

the 4-10's Swing (which turns into 5-10's) really kicks your ass.

You know when you get into your car in the afternoon, and its been baking in the sun all day, and the windows are rolled up??? Thats Swingshift in the summer in a mill for you [sucks the big horse weiner]

TFF!!!


Sammers came through for me


I'm still belly laughing...

It sounds pretty sucky.I'm too old for that staying up all night stuff, and I don't do heat well...I'm just layin' around waiting for late august when I can get out in some high country cooler air and wade in a cold creek in my tennies with my dog...
Its tough catching up with your posts when you are on swing..when the Montana boys get cranked up on an evening now, seems like theres a hole in the program..
Ingwe

Good job Sammo!
Ingwe

I know.. Thats why I now have an Avatar of a 19" long horse dick.


Its because I miss you guys

We do need to schedule a Montana get together somewhere sometime though. You just know that somebody is going to be missing a pair of boxers at that party

I have no idea what Dan is talking about. That picture disgusts me......

I'm a tighty Whitey guy, so it'll have to be Sam!
Ingwe

Don't make me post a pic.....(laughin')

What about your buddy JB???

That could make for a fine article in something as uppity as Sports Afield??

Well schitt guys...

The P'role Offser says I have to go hang out with HER friends now.

I didn't make any plans... I thought for sure I'd be working today.

Dan; JB writes for a family type audience, I don't think anything coming out of a MT get-together would be suitable for familial consumption...I'm just guessin'..
Sam: Posting that pic for Dan's avatar ought to be enough...
Ingwe

This thread is getting waaay outta hand.

Later Danny.


Yeah Ingwe, that pic does give a guy a pretty good idea....(grin)

Yep, I'd better go do the same..my wife thinks I'm queer for you guys anyway, specially when we are talking get-togethers and breifs v.boxers....
Ingwe

Be very glad I didn't post any sheep pics!

Poor JB... I guess thats what happens when you're a profesional. He's probably too good to come to our pow-wow anyhow... Or smart enough to not associate with usn's

Ingwe....


I think I just pissed myself.....

Thanks for sharing that with us...
I'll ask JB to attend when I see him, though I think he's got better sense...specially when I tell him who is involved...
and Sam, I don't know about RL, But I'M glad you didn't post any sheep pics...
Rancho; you gotta remember I'm on the wagon...things don't get outta hand till I break out the vitamin B12....
Ingwe

"S-AAAA-MMMM... N-OOOOO... IT'S UNNN-N-N-N-AAA-TURAL.."

But Sam told me, and I quote.."It's not Baaaaaadd..."
Doh!
Ingwe

Ohhh baby!

And if that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

I was wrong..I don't have the B12 out, but this thread is outta hand....
Ingwe

There was a whole herd of those Wyoming Hot Dates at our vacation place.. Good thing Sammo wasn't there.

Sheep [bleep]!

Don't let Ingwe fool you with his modesty. Rumor has it he was quite the ewe man back in the day.

And don't tell me you didn't sneak across the fence on your vacation.

RL: Now don't include me with the men that make the sheep nervous...
I don't do that kind of thing...
So far as you know....
Ingwe

I only ever got the one ewe tag...and I didn't get a chance to go "hunting"..
So far as you know...
Ingwe

Damn electric fences!!

ZAP...doh!


I might hit Logan early tomorrow if it's nice and windy...

I forgot you told me how to throw a blanket over it..

Tricks of the trade...

I did get zapped hard two years ago while antelope hunting. Crossed fine the first time so I figured it was dead. No so good on the way back. That chit hurts!

You still talking about the fence........

Fence?

I thought it was back to the horse.

You sick [bleep]!!

Logan tomorrow!

I'll let you know in the AM about the Loge.


Horses kick!

Held a single strand electric down one day with my rifle butt to cross it...was straddled when it slipped off the rifle...I log in here under Ingwe...but real nickname is "Soprano"...
Ingwe

make sure to put on your best rubber boots when you go acourtin those sheep!

You know of course they need to be knee high so you got someplace to put the sheep's back....oh, hell what am I saying...I think I'm preaching to the choir!
Ingwe

Look what you started after I left...

Like a horse swinging 19 inches of pipe wasn't enough, now were onto Sheep love and shocking your teabag on hot-wires???

That reminded me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVvnp2lGo0

think a new thread might need to be started.... best rubber boots and velcro gloves for.... aawww never mind.... The gutter is getting too crowded as it is..

It's really bad when you walk by one and it says: "That's my Daaaaaaad.."

I am officially out of this thread....(laughin')

Yeah,right...
Its like a train wreck, you just gotta look...

Ingwe

10,000 sheep in the flock and I get the sheriffs' girlfriend....sigh...

Don't feel bad, some always pick the ugliest one......