I've ran across several Ruger M77 rifles that caught my eye due to the calibers and condition. I know zilch about the M77 and wondered if anyone could tell me the virtues of this model. I know Model 700's and M70's but next to noting about this Ruger.
Pros: Mauser 98 style CRF action Accurate hammer-forged factory barrels Simple trigger assembly is easy to adjust to reasonable weights Comes with integral bases and rings, which are quite strong/durable 3-position wing safety (some may find this a con) Built like tanks
Cons: Investment cast receivers are heavy (see "built like tanks") 3-position wing safety is too small, can be hard to manipulate with gloves on Actions can be rough when new (usually slick up with use though) Less after market parts available (compared to Remington 700, etc)
Pros: Mauser 98 style CRF action Accurate hammer-forged factory barrels Simple trigger assembly is easy to adjust to reasonable weights Comes with integral bases and rings, which are quite strong/durable 3-position wing safety (some may find this a con) Built like tanks
Cons: Investment cast receivers are heavy (see "built like tanks") 3-position wing safety is too small, can be hard to manipulate with gloves on Actions can be rough when new (usually slick up with use though) Less after market parts available (compared to Remington 700, etc)
That's my take on it anyway...
I didn't catch the vintage, and these items vary accordingly.
I've loaded for and shot a MkII in 308 Win., and a Hawkeye in 270 Win. Both were good shooters, the 308 being the better of the two.
Edit: I forgot to mention the Ruger Gunsite Scout an acquaintance bought. I cleaned the barrel before we shot it, and cleaned it again after putting twenty or thirty rounds through it. Even on the shakedown cruise it didn't copper foul to any appreciable degree, and the powder fouling was easily removed.
Mine are all very accurate. They got a bad name in accuracy from the 70's, I think, when they were using different barrels. They make their own barrels now and accuracy from mine has been as good as all other makes I own.
I think Mule Deer had one with the wonky throat one time.
Ruger has been known to replace barrels on such afflicted rifles.
I wouldn't mind one of their new tubes on a tang safety model, but would they do it without insisting they bring everything else about the rifle to factory original condition?
I have a tang in 3006. Plain jane wood stocked rifle with a vx3 3.5-10x40 My favorite all purpose rifle in my battery of Rems,brownings ,weatherbys and marlins. Reasons are ease of handling ,action smoothness and accuracy. Shoots everyday factory loaded remington coreloks in 1-1.5 groups all day usually the first two hole touching or dang close. Never had a newer model.
I have three tang safety R77s in 270, 7x57, 284 , an RL77 in 308 and a #1 in 7x57. No flys on any of them. They are all "go to" guns, which still leaves me with decisions to make when I head out. I would like the 270 to be buried with me for my last trip. In rifles, I don't have any Remmys or Brownings and only one Winney. Tim
I'm not saying all tang safety models had bad barrels.
A friend of mine has two tangers in 270 Win., and he's hunted with them all over for a long time. They're named Betsy and Mabel.
He's had the triggers tuned and the stocks full length bedded, neutral pressure IIRC. He's got them identically scoped, and they're both zeroed to the same load. He can pick up either one and put three shots very close to touching, and landing right where they're supposed to every time.
BIL has a tang .270 that I recommended to him (used) in the late 70s. I checked the bedding and trigger and put a 4X Weaver on it that I had recently had reconditioned by Mr. Ruiz. It shot right about an inch with some necked down .30-06 brass loaded fairly hot with a forgotten 140. He doesn't do crazy long shots, but I never saw him miss a mule deer or coyote.
It is a plenty good hunting gun, perhaps a few ounces heavier than some others.
Well, from what I've read here and elsewhere I'm going to chalk this one up. I thought I'd add a second 7x57 to my M70 but may look elsewhere.
I've got one tang model left and its a 7 Mag. No flys on it at all. I've never had a M77 I couldn't get to shoot and I've had several. If I was in the market for another 7x57 I'd have no qualms about a M77.
MagMarc - Besides later MKII's and Hawkeyes I have one circa '72 tanger M77. It's a .22/250 sporter w/ 22" pencil barrel bought for its classic looks in an era of "California" style rifles. For the first 2-3 shots it'll group them in 1-1.5" depending on how much coffee I had that morning. After that it heats up and starts stringing. NO, not a 'varmint' gun BUT what it does to rotten watermelons (a 'show/tell' lesson to my wide-eyed son about power) is simply amazing. Have no clue who made the barrel but its blued finish is beautiful, walnut just so, so and it carries like a dream. Homesteader
I still own several and at least one of each. M77 tanger, M77 Mark II, and hawkeyes. All shoot .5-1.5" with factory ammo consistently. (I've been gathering reloading supplies slowly for a couple years) Only mods are trigger jobs/tuning especially on the mark II's. Tough dependable guns and the only bolt actions in my safe except the wife's 243 model 7.
I had a heavy barrel varmint model .25-06 tang safety Model 77 purchased around 1979 or 80 and it wouldn't shoot under two inches to save my life. This with the heavy weight barrel in a chambering I have seen to be very accurate in my other .25-06's.
Jump to the present day - In 2012 I bought three stainless Hawkeyes over the course of a few months - another .25-06, a .308 and a .223. The .223 is actually the least accurate of the three but it still shoots well; I couldn't wish for better accuracy from the .25-06 or .308.
As noted above - crap shoot. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.
I'd pick up a new Hawkeye in a heartbeat but wouldn't gamble on a tang safety unless the accuracy was a proven quantity.
According to the specs I read, this one is from 1980 and is a 7x57.
............I own two Rugers. One purchased new in '07 (Frontier) and the other new in '08 (375 Ruger Alaskan). Although I had the Frontier bedded and floated, there were no accuracy issues beforehand. The work done just made it better. No accuracy problems with the Alaskan and no additional work was needed.
As someone mentioned earlier and I will agree, it will be an accuracy gamble or crapshoot considering the rifle you are looking at is from 1980. It could shoot very well and on the flip side it can do the reverse and drive you nuts.
It does not matter how everyone else's newer or older Ruger shoots whether good, bad or in-between. Only the rifle you are considering is what matters.
If I were you and only if I knew the owner well, would I consider that 1980 rifle. Imo and even though you will pay more, I'd look for a newer Ruger.
Well, from what I've read here and elsewhere I'm going to chalk this one up. I thought I'd add a second 7x57 to my M70 but may look elsewhere.
What's the matter with the one you have?
Oh, you 'want' another 7x57!
If you're looking for recent production, another Featherweight wouldn't hurt. Or take a look at Montana Rife Company. I took mine out the other evening and it'll shoot. Or pick up the Ruger, tinker with it, and have it rebarrelled if it doesn't shoot the way you want it to. Even in 7x57 you still have options. The barrel makers will make sure of that. I've been thinking god having a 1:8 .260 screwed onto a Featherweight. Why? Just because.
Well, from what I've read here and elsewhere I'm going to chalk this one up. I thought I'd add a second 7x57 to my M70 but may look elsewhere.
If you pass you may well be missing an opportunity to get a great rifle.
My safe is full of Ruger M77 and MKII rifles - most purchased used � and there is not a bad one in the bunch. None have had anything done to them except float the barrel and tune the triggers, both of which are fairly easy tasks. Worst case, if you are not comfortable working on a trigger, there are aftermarket triggers available.
As to accuracy:
1982 Ruger M77, 7mm RM Shot in 40+mph crosswinds, gusts to 60mph, 100 yards.
1984 Ruger M77, .30-06 2-shot scope check @ 100
1989 Ruger M77, .257 Roberts 3 shots @ 100 yards � the photo says it all.
2003 Ruger MKII, .300WM 1st shot was from a clean/oiled bore. 100 yards.
What you get with a Ruger M77 or MKII is a very rugged, reliable rifle. The triggers clean up easily or can be replaced. (I�ve net needed to replace any.) Float the barrel and tighten the screws properly and you should be good to go.
As to barrels, Ruger got a bad reputation when they were using barrels manufactured outside. (1970�s ?) Ruger long ago switched to in-house manufacture using hammer-forged barrels. See targets above�
The bolt and handle are one piece, no need to worry if the handle will come off as it can with a brazed-on handle. The scope mounting system is one of the strongest available � no itty-bitty mounting screws to break. (A mule and a log conspired to break two of my ribs after I landed on my M77. It still shot fine.) Finally, Ruger has great service. I purchased a used Blackhawk .357 Mag and had it sent in for repairs (bent basepin replacement). No charge for the repair or return shipping. More recently I purchased a new MKII in .300WM. There were handling marks in the bluing and minor scratches in the wood because it was a display rifle at Dick�s. Ruger reblued the barrel and, to my surprise and without being asked, replaced the stock with their �African� stock (a definite upgrade). Again, no charge for the repairs/upgrade or return shipping.
I fully expect that my Ruger rifles will outlast me by many years. My 7mm RM, manufactured in 1982, shot a 3-shot .262� group with North Fork bullets back in the 2002-2003 time frame. Not bad for a rifle that had been my only big game bolt rifle for 20 years and had gone elk and deer hunting all but one or two of those years.
Any time I find a good used Ruger at a good price I have a really hard time walking away.
very nice Coyote Hunter! i enjoy going to the range and shooting groups like yours, especially after other shooters there tell me that you cant achieve accuracy from a Ruger 77, and now the American. i wish i had a dollar for everytime someone said "is that a Ruger"
I had a heavy barrel varmint model .25-06 tang safety Model 77 purchased around 1979 or 80 and it wouldn't shoot under two inches to save my life. This with the heavy weight barrel in a chambering I have seen to be very accurate in my other .25-06's.
Jump to the present day - In 2012 I bought three stainless Hawkeyes over the course of a few months - another .25-06, a .308 and a .223. The .223 is actually the least accurate of the three but it still shoots well; I couldn't wish for better accuracy from the .25-06 or .308.
As noted above - crap shoot. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.
I'd pick up a new Hawkeye in a heartbeat but wouldn't gamble on a tang safety unless the accuracy was a proven quantity.
This has been my experience as well. I bought my first Ruger in 1982 - tang safety 280 Rem. Still have it but its semi-retired. Its had a bazzillion shots through it. It needs re-barreled but will still hold 1.5" group. I had a 7 RM match to it till about 4-5 years ago. Both shot well.
I've had a 308 UL and a 7x57. Both struggled to keep 1.5" groups and 2" was more the norm. Sold both after shooting $500 worth of components in each.
In the past 2 years have bought 4 new Hawkeyes - 243, 30-06 UL, 35 wh, 375 R. All shoot very good and are capable of 1" groups or better with my handloads. I really like the new Hawkeyes. I have 2 complaints about Rugers. First is their weight - they are not ultralight rifles. The new Hawkeyes typically weigh right at 8 lbs with a Leupie of some flavor affixed. My UL weighs 7.5 but has a 20" pencil barrel and a 2.5-8 Leupie. My other complaint is the 3 position safety. I like the 3 positions but it isn't the most user friendly safety ever created - that distinction belongs to the M70.
I like CRF actions and my safe is full of M77's and M70's. All told the new Hawkeyes are tough to beat. Some of the tang safety Rugers can be a challenge.
One other thing of note about tang safety Rugers in 7x57 - I physically couldn't seat some bullets out far enough to reach the lands and grooves. They have very long leads, likely to accommodate someone shooting 175 gr aluminum bullets or some such nonsense. I've seen this twice.
Well, from what I've read here and elsewhere I'm going to chalk this one up. I thought I'd add a second 7x57 to my M70 but may look elsewhere.
If you pass you may well be missing an opportunity to get a great rifle.
My safe is full of Ruger M77 and MKII rifles - most purchased used � and there is not a bad one in the bunch. None have had anything done to them except float the barrel and tune the triggers, both of which are fairly easy tasks. Worst case, if you are not comfortable working on a trigger, there are aftermarket triggers available.
As to accuracy:
1982 Ruger M77, 7mm RM Shot in 40+mph crosswinds, gusts to 60mph, 100 yards.
1984 Ruger M77, .30-06 2-shot scope check @ 100
1989 Ruger M77, .257 Roberts 3 shots @ 100 yards � the photo says it all.
2003 Ruger MKII, .300WM 1st shot was from a clean/oiled bore. 100 yards.
What you get with a Ruger M77 or MKII is a very rugged, reliable rifle. The triggers clean up easily or can be replaced. (I�ve net needed to replace any.) Float the barrel and tighten the screws properly and you should be good to go.
As to barrels, Ruger got a bad reputation when they were using barrels manufactured outside. (1970�s ?) Ruger long ago switched to in-house manufacture using hammer-forged barrels. See targets above�
The bolt and handle are one piece, no need to worry if the handle will come off as it can with a brazed-on handle. The scope mounting system is one of the strongest available � no itty-bitty mounting screws to break. (A mule and a log conspired to break two of my ribs after I landed on my M77. It still shot fine.) Finally, Ruger has great service. I purchased a used Blackhawk .357 Mag and had it sent in for repairs (bent basepin replacement). No charge for the repair or return shipping. More recently I purchased a new MKII in .300WM. There were handling marks in the bluing and minor scratches in the wood because it was a display rifle at Dick�s. Ruger reblued the barrel and, to my surprise and without being asked, replaced the stock with their �African� stock (a definite upgrade). Again, no charge for the repairs/upgrade or return shipping.
I fully expect that my Ruger rifles will outlast me by many years. My 7mm RM, manufactured in 1982, shot a 3-shot .262� group with North Fork bullets back in the 2002-2003 time frame. Not bad for a rifle that had been my only big game bolt rifle for 20 years and had gone elk and deer hunting all but one or two of those years.
Any time I find a good used Ruger at a good price I have a really hard time walking away.
You expect us to believe the Ruger 77's shoot like that??
My four tangers are bedded in the lug area with a couple inches of bedding up the barrel. They print the first shot right with the second and third whether cold, clean or dirty. It might just be my good luck, but I sure like it. jmho Tim
One other thing of note about tang safety Rugers in 7x57 - I physically couldn't seat some bullets out far enough to reach the lands and grooves. They have very long leads, likely to accommodate someone shooting 175 gr aluminum bullets or some such nonsense. I've seen this twice.
That was one of my concerns as I'd read it before. Apparently, at least at one point in time, manufacturers, including Ruger, set their 7x57's up for that bullet weight, for reasons that escape me. It may have been the only bullet available long ago but they should know not everyone cottons to a long heavy bullet. My main bullet would be the 140 and 160 gr.
You don't want to seat a bullet so far out that not even the caliber dimension (.284") is in the case.
One other thing of note about tang safety Rugers in 7x57 - I physically couldn't seat some bullets out far enough to reach the lands and grooves. They have very long leads, likely to accommodate someone shooting 175 gr aluminum bullets or some such nonsense. I've seen this twice.
That was one of my concerns as I'd read it before. Apparently, at least at one point in time, manufacturers, including Ruger, set their 7x57's up for that bullet weight, for reasons that escape me.
Because until 1981 the 175-grain RN was the primary and often only factory load offered in the 7x57mm. When Winchester offered the Model 70 Featherweight XTR and Remington offered the Model 700 Classic, both in 7x57mm that year, all of a sudden 140-grain factory loads became "the thing" and 175-grain RN loads went out with rotary phones.
Elderly friend bought a laminated SS model in 6.5 Creedmore. He sent the rifle to the gunsmith to have him put on a muzzle break.
Threads stripped when the gunsmith tried to remove the barrel. Reason that threads stripped...barrel was started into the action crooked.
The entire package was sent back to Ruger, they said they would not warranty the gun due to the fact that the gunsmith removed the barrel...tough titty...$700 shot to Hell! They did offer him the same rifle in a blued version for $500....mitty WHITE of them don't you think???
I say, thank your lucky stars if you have a good Ruger, from now on, buy any other another brand on the market!
Elderly friend bought a laminated SS model in 6.5 Creedmore. He sent the rifle to the gunsmith to have him put on a muzzle break.
Threads stripped when the gunsmith tried to remove the barrel. Reason that threads stripped...barrel was started into the action crooked.
The entire package was sent back to Ruger, they said they would not warranty the gun due to the fact that the gunsmith removed the barrel...tough titty...$700 shot to Hell! They did offer him the same rifle in a blued version for $500....mitty WHITE of them don't you think???
I say, thank your lucky stars if you have a good Ruger, from now on, buy any other another brand on the market!
An obviously absolutely true story, because as we all know, you can't post anything on the internet that's not true.
Tell me, Little Man, can you post a copy of the work order and receipt that Ruger provides on each and every firearm they service? Or are we to take you at your obviously absolutely true word?
Rotary phone!? I remember those. Back on topic; I'll keep buying Ruger MkII's when I find them. NEVER had a accuracy issue with 'em, They just seem to be shooters. In between rifles, I 've been buying Fender guitars lately. Much fun.
I've had better than (30) 77's through the years,covering the lineage nicely from Round-tops on through. Never had a "bad" one.
Their Hornet chambers are sloppy and a punch to "K",a great move on several levels. Have been around some supposed "bad" ones,but it was always a fastener issue.
Am at ease in building upon 'em too and have had Customs on the lineage,again going back to Round-tops and on through.
Rugers will never be light,but they take a lick well and one never needs to give them a fret.
I've had tang's and mkII's from .223 to .338wm. Really, really like my tang 77rsi .308. Still pissed i had to sell a boat paddle .35 Whelen 2-3 years ago.
I've owned 5 Ruger M77 rifles. First was a .270 tanger in the 70'2 that shot very well. Sold it because it was heavy. Had a .243 heavy barrel tanger with mediocre accuracy, and traded it off. Got a stainless Mk II in .30-06 that I had a trigger job done. It was not a great shooter when new, but became very accurate after some break-in. The action is now pretty slick as well. Later I bought a used .30-06 and .270 tangers that I put into B&C stocks, which cut the weight by almost 1/2 pound! Both of them shoot well. Biggest regret is my LGS had 2 M77 Hawkeyes in .35 Whelen (one blue, one stainless) for a couple years, and I never bought either one. The next Ruger I buy will probably be an American in .308.
guns are like old girlfriends, there is always one that we regret loosing. buy that American, and it will help you forget about the .35 Whelen. im sure she was perfect, but accuracy helps ease the pain..
I've only owned two 77 rifles, but really like them (3-pos safety Hawkeyes and MkII).
-Simple, more or less open trigger design -Easy trigger to tune, as mentioned -One-pc bolt -Rugged investment cast extractor (although some say they are MIM now)
Compared to the Ruger, the newer Win 70 has an enclosed trigger that some don't like (crud gets inside or water freezes?), a bolt handle that is brazed (Echols & Pearce have written about handles falling off but I've never seen it), and a MIM extractor that some Win loonies replace with a machined extractor.
Note that the above only concerns the most extreme of rifle loonies but you mentioned "virtues" so I thought I'd throw that out there.
Jason
edit to add - noticed that Coyote already covered most of this... oops!
I've had better than (30) 77's through the years,covering the lineage nicely from Round-tops on through. Never had a "bad" one.
Their Hornet chambers are sloppy and a punch to "K",a great move on several levels. Have been around some supposed "bad" ones,but it was always a fastener issue.
Am at ease in building upon 'em too and have had Customs on the lineage,again going back to Round-tops and on through.
Rugers will never be light,but they take a lick well and one never needs to give them a fret.
Boxer tested, boxer approved. That's good enough for me.
If you or your gunsmith goes to pull the barrel off the receiver and it strips the threads, Ruger WILL NOT warranty the action, nor the barrel.
I have owned more than a couple of dozen Rugers over the years, had one turned into a custom.
I am disgusted at Ruger's complete denial to back obvious piss poor quality control in the assembly of this rifle.
It says right in the Ruger Owner's Manual that if you take the rifle apart, it voids all warranty...they mean just that.
I called several of the best custom gunsmith's in the country to try and get them to chase the threads on the barrel and Action, and everyone of them said that this happened from time to time, and $500-600 to fix the issue.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! If you take the barrel off of a Ruger and it strips out, you have a Bolt, trigger, and stock left that is salvageable. The action can be Re threaded over size and a new custom barrel installed with over size threads to match...your only option. Mailing it back to Ruger is a waste of money.
If you want pictures of this butchered up action, PM me with your email address and I will gladly send them to you.
I was an avid Ruger fan up till I delt with my friends issues with Ruger's customer support. The custom gun builder that dealt with Ruger now has a new policy, "He will not touch another Ruger for any reason". If you think that I am pissed, you should talk to him.
NO WAY! The barrel was started into the action crooked at the factory, it got a big bugger on the lead thread, then stripped the threads as it was forced into the action.
So do I and the friend that had this very expensive experience. My take on the Customer QC is that the bean counters are running the show.
So, our Rugers are good to go as long as you do not try and remove the barrel to have a muzzle break added or put on a custom barrel...when you take your chances.
a gunsmith from a hunting camp down the road from ours, had a similar issue with a Rem 700, and a aftermarket barrel, and now he wont touch a Remington as far as a barrel change goes. its nothing more than the big companies wanting you to ship guns back to them.
a gunsmith from a hunting camp down the road from ours, had a similar issue with a Rem 700, and a aftermarket barrel, and now he wont touch a Remington as far as a barrel change goes. its nothing more than the big companies wanting you to ship guns back to them.
If you or your gunsmith goes to pull the barrel off the receiver and it strips the threads, Ruger WILL NOT warranty the action, nor the barrel.
I have owned more than a couple of dozen Rugers over the years, had one turned into a custom.
I am disgusted at Ruger's complete denial to back obvious piss poor quality control in the assembly of this rifle.
It says right in the Ruger Owner's Manual that if you take the rifle apart, it voids all warranty...they mean just that.
I called several of the best custom gunsmith's in the country to try and get them to chase the threads on the barrel and Action, and everyone of them said that this happened from time to time, and $500-600 to fix the issue.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! If you take the barrel off of a Ruger and it strips out, you have a Bolt, trigger, and stock left that is salvageable. The action can be Re threaded over size and a new custom barrel installed with over size threads to match...your only option. Mailing it back to Ruger is a waste of money.
If you want pictures of this butchered up action, PM me with your email address and I will gladly send them to you.
I was an avid Ruger fan up till I delt with my friends issues with Ruger's customer support. The custom gun builder that dealt with Ruger now has a new policy, "He will not touch another Ruger for any reason". If you think that I am pissed, you should talk to him.
As I stated in my reply to the dumbass PM you sent me this morning, either produce a work order and receipt from Ruger or STFU. It's dickheads like you who ruin the internet.
It says right in the Ruger Owner's Manual that if you take the rifle apart, it voids all warranty...they mean just that.
Your pissed over something that clearly voids the stated warranty. A manufacturer has no idea if they were at fault or the smith screwed up the job and tried to blame them.
It says right in the Ruger Owner's Manual that if you take the rifle apart, it voids all warranty...they mean just that.
Your pissed over something that clearly voids the stated warranty. A manufacturer has no idea if they were at fault or the smith screwed up the job and tried to blame them.
It's quite likely the entire tale is just that: a tale. The only difference between what this moron posted and a fairy tale is a fairy tale begins with "Once upon a time..."
a gunsmith from a hunting camp down the road from ours, had a similar issue with a Rem 700, and a aftermarket barrel, and now he wont touch a Remington as far as a barrel change goes. its nothing more than the big companies wanting you to ship guns back to them.
It is easy to see where Remington would not back their warranty after an after market barrel ruined the threads in the action. The threads on the barrel were more than likely cut too large or with the wrong pitch.
Bricktop, here is my response to you in a PM:
If you send me your email address, I will send you some macro pics of the barrel and receiver that are screwed up on this new Ruger 77. I don't know if my neighbor has the work order or not.
The incident happened exactly as I stated. The gunsmith that took the Ruger apart is Ray Bowman of Precision Rifle and tool in Mebane, NC Phone 336-214-5381
I am as shocked as you are that Ruger would not warranty the rifle at all. After checking with Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan Rifles, this happens frequently.
Any of you that have dealt with Gre-Tan Rifles, Greg Tannel, knows that he is not fool when it comes to being a machinist and gunsmith.
a gunsmith from a hunting camp down the road from ours, had a similar issue with a Rem 700, and a aftermarket barrel, and now he wont touch a Remington as far as a barrel change goes. its nothing more than the big companies wanting you to ship guns back to them.
It is easy to see where Remington would not back their warranty after an after market barrel ruined the threads in the action. The threads on the barrel were more than likely cut too large or with the wrong pitch.
Bricktop, here is my response to you in a PM:
If you send me your email address, I will send you some macro pics of the barrel and receiver that are screwed up on this new Ruger 77. I don't know if my neighbor has the work order or not.
The incident happened exactly as I stated. The gunsmith that took the Ruger apart is Ray Bowman of Precision Rifle and tool in Mebane, NC Phone 336-214-5381
I am as shocked as you are that Ruger would not warranty the rifle at all. After checking with Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan Rifles, this happens frequently.
Any of you that have dealt with Gre-Tan Rifles, Greg Tannel, knows that he is not fool when it comes to being a machinist and gunsmith.
And as I stated in my reply, none of those "details" means squat. A third party -- in this case the "gunsmith" -- can cause the damage and all you have are pictures of a damaged rifle and a gunsmith's denial. IT DOESN'T MEAN SQUAT. Unless you can produce a work order from Ruger and their correspondence -- routine and minor items provided for ANY firearm sent to them for work -- detailing THEIR side of this tale, it remains just that: A TALE. Dumbass.
This is a picture of threads that were cross threaded and epoxy in the front trigger guard screw hole. The front guard screw had to be drilled out and removed with an eezy out.
This picture shows where the first thread tried to cross thread and the thread tore instead. The large hunk of metal then tried to re-thread the action threads.
Anyone that thinks that a gunsmith can damage threads of an action or barrel by simply clamping the barrel in a barrel vise and applying pressure on an action wrench has NEVER removed a barrel personally....they screw on and screw off with ease if they are threaded properly!
The work order from Ruger stated that the QC person rejected the repair, then sent the gun to a second committee and they rejected the repair also.
Ruger botched the assembly of this barrel and action by starting either the action onto the barrel crooked or vise a versa. They tried to cover it up by filling the barrel threads full of epoxy which ran down into the front guard screw. They glued in the front guard screw where it could not be removed, which in effect did not allow the owner to take the action out of the stock.
Ruger did in fact offer my friend a blued rifle not of the caliber that is damaged for the nifty sum of $500.
Good luck to all that wish to build a custom rifle on a Ruger, have barrel cut off, have a muzzle break added, or have a barrel re-contoured. I built two customs on Ruger 77 tang blued models years ago, friend has one custom built on a new stainless Mark II action that came out OK.
This is a perfect example of Schitty Customer service that is controlled by bean counters...be FOREWARNED!!! Customer service ain't always customer service. If you pull a Ruger apart and find that they did a first class job of [bleep] up, Shame on you for taking it apart!
This is a picture of threads that were cross threaded and epoxy in the front trigger guard screw hole. The front guard screw had to be drilled out and removed with an eezy out.
This picture shows where the first thread tried to cross thread and the thread tore instead. The large hunk of metal then tried to re-thread the action threads.
Anyone that thinks that a gunsmith can damage threads of an action or barrel by simply clamping the barrel in a barrel vise and applying pressure on an action wrench has NEVER removed a barrel personally....they screw on and screw off with ease if they are threaded properly!
The work order from Ruger stated that the QC person rejected the repair, then sent the gun to a second committee and they rejected the repair also.
Ruger botched the assembly of this barrel and action by starting either the action onto the barrel crooked or vise a versa. They tried to cover it up by filling the barrel threads full of epoxy which ran down into the front guard screw. They glued in the front guard screw where it could not be removed, which in effect did not allow the owner to take the action out of the stock.
Ruger did in fact offer my friend a blued rifle not of the caliber that is damaged for the nifty sum of $500.
Good luck to all that wish to build a custom rifle on a Ruger, have barrel cut off, have a muzzle break added, or have a barrel re-contoured. I built two customs on Ruger 77 tang blued models years ago, friend has one custom built on a new stainless Mark II action that came out OK.
This is a perfect example of Schitty Customer service that is controlled by bean counters...be FOREWARNED!!! Customer service ain't always customer service. If you pull a Ruger apart and find that they did a first class job of [bleep] up, Shame on you for taking it apart!
Wow. You can post links to Photobucket and tell fairy tales. But no work order or correspondence from Ruger. Moron.
It still doesn't prove the smith didn't bugger it.
Would Remington, Winchester, or any other manufacturer warrant that?
I had to use Ruger's service department once and was treated great.
I've used them several times for my AC556 and other odds and ends including the bent barrel fiasco on my stainless Model 77 Hawkeye. Nary a hitch, but then again, I wasn't tearing up a gun due to half-assed "gunsmithing" and then asking Ruger to cover it.
MagMarc, It is obvious that you have never taken a barrel off of any action or you would not make a comment like, "It still doesn't prove the smith didn't bugger it". Barrels screw on and screw off when done properly...it is just that simple. Look at all the pictures again. You will see that big bugger that is on the leading thread of the barrel, you will see how that big bugger just ate up the threads in the action, then backing the barrel out, just ate up more threads.
MagMarc, gunsmith's can't cross thread a barrel and action while removing an barrel, the threads had to be gauled and torn badly during assembly. Barrel Removal just made the whole situation obvious.
I too used Ruger's service dept once and they did a stellar job on an SR9.
My buddy is out a ton of money due to piss poor craftsman ship in the assembly of this gun plus piss poor customer service. They had idiots for QC on the return that did not know how this "accident" happened during assembly. Then they had a tight AZZ bean counter as head of QC that rejected the repair.
I am going to get back with Ruger after I get the paperwork from the gunsmith where Ruger shipped the gun back to him. I hope to have a good report from Ruger later on, but I am not going to hold my breath. I think that the gunsmith put the return paperwork on his wall as a warning to all Ruger owners that walk in the door and want him to re-barrel their Ruger rifles. We have all had such good luck with Ruger over the years, it is hard to stomach such CRAPPY Customer service on obvious piss poor workmanship. A Ruger stainless, laminated 6.5 Creedmore is no cheap rifle to piss away, close to $1000 by the time you get dies and brass.
From a gunsmith's perspective, He had to drill out the front guard screw, then remove the front guard screw with an eezy out, Remove the barrel, box up the gun and mail it to Ruger, and then had to tell the customer that Ruger had returned his gun in parts that he could not repair! That is a lot of work on the part of the gunsmith that he did for free!
My friend went and bought a used Remington 700 Good to turn into a 6.5 Creedmore since he has all the dies and brass. So, the gunsmith will be able to re-coup some of his time spend on this Ruger mess.
As to the question as to whether or not Remington or Winchester or other makers would warranty their product, the first question that comes to mind is how many times would they be asked to warranty an issue like this? Factory action with factory barrel unscrewed tore all to hell!
So if/when I post the paper work, then what will you have to say? Just more BS!!!!
Call the dumbass gunsmith(Ray Bowman) and start spouting your BS to him! He is a specialist in building F class and 1000 yd rifles!
Then after you get through getting your azz chewed out by him, call Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan rifles, he will really set your azz straight, Greg is a master machinist and gunsmith of the highest caliber also.
MagMarc, It is obvious that you have never taken a barrel off of any action or you would not make a comment like, "It still doesn't prove the smith didn't bugger it". Barrels screw on and screw off when done properly...it is just that simple. Look at all the pictures again. You will see that big bugger that is on the leading thread of the barrel, you will see how that big bugger just ate up the threads in the action, then backing the barrel out, just ate up more threads.
MagMarc, gunsmith's can't cross thread a barrel and action while removing an barrel, the threads had to be gauled and torn badly during assembly. Barrel Removal just made the whole situation obvious.
I too used Ruger's service dept once and they did a stellar job on an SR9.
My buddy is out a ton of money due to piss poor craftsman ship in the assembly of this gun plus piss poor customer service. They had idiots for QC on the return that did not know how this "accident" happened during assembly. Then they had a tight AZZ bean counter as head of QC that rejected the repair.
I am going to get back with Ruger after I get the paperwork from the gunsmith where Ruger shipped the gun back to him. I hope to have a good report from Ruger later on, but I am not going to hold my breath. I think that the gunsmith put the return paperwork on his wall as a warning to all Ruger owners that walk in the door and want him to re-barrel their Ruger rifles. We have all had such good luck with Ruger over the years, it is hard to stomach such CRAPPY Customer service on obvious piss poor workmanship. A Ruger stainless, laminated 6.5 Creedmore is no cheap rifle to piss away, close to $1000 by the time you get dies and brass.
From a gunsmith's perspective, He had to drill out the front guard screw, then remove the front guard screw with an eezy out, Remove the barrel, box up the gun and mail it to Ruger, and then had to tell the customer that Ruger had returned his gun in parts that he could not repair! That is a lot of work on the part of the gunsmith that he did for free!
My friend went and bought a used Remington 700 Good to turn into a 6.5 Creedmore since he has all the dies and brass. So, the gunsmith will be able to re-coup some of his time spend on this Ruger mess.
As to the question as to whether or not Remington or Winchester or other makers would warranty their product, the first question that comes to mind is how many times would they be asked to warranty an issue like this? Factory action with factory barrel unscrewed tore all to hell!
The only thing "tore all to hell" is your as$h0le from this moronic fairy tale. Yes, we all know the basic mechanics of threads and how barrels are secured to actions, dickweed. You keep dancing around the issues here. What occurred during the interim after the barrel was removed? OH YEAH, YOU AIN'T GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
So if/when I post the paper work, then what will you have to say? Just more BS!!!!
Call the dumbass gunsmith(Ray Bowman) and start spouting your BS to him! He is a specialist in building F class and 1000 yd rifles!
Then after you get through getting your azz chewed out by him, call Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan rifles, he will really set your azz straight, Greg is a master machinist and gunsmith of the highest caliber also.
You will never post anything that tells the complete story. The only reason you continue to respond at this point is your ego. You've been caught in a lie and you're doing whatever you can to save face. You keep dropping names of no consequence, adding details that cannot be verified, and otherwise pad your fairy tale. But you won't post any official correspondence from Ruger or post a work order from Ruger. I would imagine you're trying to forge something now. Moron.
Bricktop, I think that the fairy tale is you having a brain to think with, you absolutely resemble your avatar!
And yet another reply with no work order and no Ruger correspondence. Your ass has been had.
Here's what an invoice/work order from Ruger looks like:
As soon as you and Ackman can come up for air from sucking each other's dicks, see if he can rustle up something like this in his Photobucket account for you, dicknose.
Those pics look like perfect evidence that the smith tried to screw it back in.
Front of the barrel threads and front of the receiver are buggered up. IF the barrel had been screwed in crossed the first time, the threads would be buggered all the way to the bottom. They are not. Bottom of the receiver and the bottom of the barrel are good to go. If the threads at the front of the barrel were buggered from an over pressure bulge or some misuse, the receiver threads would be fugged all the way out.
I think the pictures prove exactly why Ruger said go pound sand.
Well, from what I've read here and elsewhere I'm going to chalk this one up. I thought I'd add a second 7x57 to my M70 but may look elsewhere.
If you pass you may well be missing an opportunity to get a great rifle.
My safe is full of Ruger M77 and MKII rifles - most purchased used � and there is not a bad one in the bunch. None have had anything done to them except float the barrel and tune the triggers, both of which are fairly easy tasks. Worst case, if you are not comfortable working on a trigger, there are aftermarket triggers available.
As to accuracy:
1982 Ruger M77, 7mm RM Shot in 40+mph crosswinds, gusts to 60mph, 100 yards.
1984 Ruger M77, .30-06 2-shot scope check @ 100
1989 Ruger M77, .257 Roberts 3 shots @ 100 yards � the photo says it all.
2003 Ruger MKII, .300WM 1st shot was from a clean/oiled bore. 100 yards.
What you get with a Ruger M77 or MKII is a very rugged, reliable rifle. The triggers clean up easily or can be replaced. (I�ve net needed to replace any.) Float the barrel and tighten the screws properly and you should be good to go.
As to barrels, Ruger got a bad reputation when they were using barrels manufactured outside. (1970�s ?) Ruger long ago switched to in-house manufacture using hammer-forged barrels. See targets above�
The bolt and handle are one piece, no need to worry if the handle will come off as it can with a brazed-on handle. The scope mounting system is one of the strongest available � no itty-bitty mounting screws to break. (A mule and a log conspired to break two of my ribs after I landed on my M77. It still shot fine.) Finally, Ruger has great service. I purchased a used Blackhawk .357 Mag and had it sent in for repairs (bent basepin replacement). No charge for the repair or return shipping. More recently I purchased a new MKII in .300WM. There were handling marks in the bluing and minor scratches in the wood because it was a display rifle at Dick�s. Ruger reblued the barrel and, to my surprise and without being asked, replaced the stock with their �African� stock (a definite upgrade). Again, no charge for the repairs/upgrade or return shipping.
I fully expect that my Ruger rifles will outlast me by many years. My 7mm RM, manufactured in 1982, shot a 3-shot .262� group with North Fork bullets back in the 2002-2003 time frame. Not bad for a rifle that had been my only big game bolt rifle for 20 years and had gone elk and deer hunting all but one or two of those years.
Any time I find a good used Ruger at a good price I have a really hard time walking away.
You expect us to believe the Ruger 77's shoot like that??
You know why women aren't good at math? It's because we keep telling them 'this' is 12 inches.
At 5 yards I'm lucky the powder burns on the targets don't show in the photos!
Those pics look like perfect evidence that the smith tried to screw it back in.
Front of the barrel threads and front of the receiver are buggered up. IF the barrel had been screwed in crossed the first time, the threads would be buggered all the way to the bottom. They are not. Bottom of the receiver and the bottom of the barrel are good to go. If the threads at the front of the barrel were buggered from an over pressure bulge or some misuse, the receiver threads would be fugged all the way out.
I think the pictures prove exactly why Ruger said go pound sand.
Dumbass, The Receiver threads are deeper than the threads on the barrel. Barrel threads do not take up all the threads in the receiver, same on most actions. There was no misuse.
The last 3 threads on the barrel tenon screwed into a section of the action that that had all the threads stripped from the large "bugger" on the start of the barrel's thread.
You guys forgot that they filled the threads full of epoxy, the epoxy ran down in the front guard screw. The front guard screw had to be drilled out and then removed with an eezy out...more piss poor workmanship.
Those pics look like perfect evidence that the smith tried to screw it back in.
Front of the barrel threads and front of the receiver are buggered up. IF the barrel had been screwed in crossed the first time, the threads would be buggered all the way to the bottom. They are not. Bottom of the receiver and the bottom of the barrel are good to go. If the threads at the front of the barrel were buggered from an over pressure bulge or some misuse, the receiver threads would be fugged all the way out.
I think the pictures prove exactly why Ruger said go pound sand.
Dumbass, The Receiver threads are deeper than the threads on the barrel. Barrel threads do not take up all the threads in the receiver, same on most actions. There was no misuse.
Dumbass, he pointed out the other obvious hole in your fairy tale.
If that is not from some body trying to screw it back in, then it is from a poor beding job that hydraulically pushed epoxy into the receiver threads. (after it left Ruger ) IF Ruger had put it together like that, with epoxy after they cross threaded it, they would have to of pulled it, applied epoxy, and screwed it back in again. At that point it is junk and would be thrown into a bin.
Folks have trouble reading....front guard screw could not be removed due to epoxy in the front guard screw hole in the action straight from Ruger. Front guard screw was epoxied in solid, and the stock could not be removed from the action.
Front guard screw had to be drilled out and removed with an eezy out prior the action being able to be pulled from the stock.
After checking with more custom gunsmiths that do benchrest and long range rifles, you will hear comments like, "Don't use Ruger actions for a custom Re-barrel". However, I have used two blued Ruger 77 Tang safety actions with no issues for custom Hart barrels to be installed.
After talking with several custom gunsmith on this project, what probably happened relates to the assembly process. Either the action is turned onto the barrel with power or vise a versa. The leading edge of both of the thread starts came into contact with each other and something had to give. The power of the machine just simply crammed the two together. No human could have screwed these two parts together, the process had to be accomplished under power with the other part held in a jig fixture.
With all the wonderful customer service that I personally have had over the years from Ruger, it is a shame to have a black eye like this...$1000 is a big hit to take.
MagMarc, I am not the smith that did the work. Having a Stainless Laminated 6.5 creedmore turn to scrap is hard to take.
I have been shooting Ruger rifles since 1984, barrel's back then were hit and miss, not like today's Ruger Barrels of such higher quality.
Bottom line for me is that most of my rifles are or become switch barrel rigs. Any factory barrel that gets shot out or has poor accuracy, gets a custom barrel installed, so one action may serve as a platform for several calibers. Barrels are very easy to change out. From my stand point, I am questioning even returning my 77's to the factory that are close to having the throats shot out for a Ruger Re-barrel. Using the Rugers as platforms for future builds is definitely a NO NO at this point...I don't feel like taking a chance...
In the late 80's I had a Hart SS Match barrels installed in 308 and 243 on a ruger 77 tang safety, both barrels shot little bitty tiny groups. Then I had a 22/250 AI and 243 AI installed on another Ruger 77 tang safety, both of these switch barrel rifles were in McMillen Stocks. Both of these two custom switch barrel rigs shot every bit as good as my Remington 700 customs.
I like the claw extractor and the solid bolt on the Rugers. Angled bolt lug never bothered me on bedding Rugers. Solid metal floor plates on Rugers are a shore nuff plus. I learned to hone the Ruger triggers down to my likes long time ago.
MagMarc, I am not the smith that did the work. Having a Stainless Laminated 6.5 creedmore turn to scrap is hard to take.
I have been shooting Ruger rifles since 1984, barrel's back then were hit and miss, not like today's Ruger Barrels of such higher quality.
Bottom line for me is that most of my rifles are or become switch barrel rigs. Any factory barrel that gets shot out or has poor accuracy, gets a custom barrel installed, so one action may serve as a platform for several calibers. Barrels are very easy to change out. From my stand point, I am questioning even returning my 77's to the factory that are close to having the throats shot out for a Ruger Re-barrel. Using the Rugers as platforms for future builds is definitely a NO NO at this point...I don't feel like taking a chance...
In the late 80's I had a Hart SS Match barrels installed in 308 and 243 on a ruger 77 tang safety, both barrels shot little bitty tiny groups. Then I had a 22/250 AI and 243 AI installed on another Ruger 77 tang safety, both of these switch barrel rifles were in McMillen Stocks. Both of these two custom switch barrel rigs shot every bit as good as my Remington 700 customs.
I like the claw extractor and the solid bolt on the Rugers. Angled bolt lug never bothered me on bedding Rugers. Solid metal floor plates on Rugers are a shore nuff plus. I learned to hone the Ruger triggers down to my likes long time ago.
Time to move on, sorry for the rant.
"Sorry for the rant?" Just how stupid ARE you? You keep posting this dickhead fairy tale and you haven't posted any work order or anything that could even pass as proof. Your ass was busted a long time ago. You should've given it up as soon as you were called out, moron. You keep digging a deeper hole.
Folks have trouble reading....front guard screw could not be removed due to epoxy in the front guard screw hole in the action straight from Ruger. Front guard screw was epoxied in solid, and the stock could not be removed from the action.
Front guard screw had to be drilled out and removed with an eezy out prior the action being able to be pulled from the stock.
After checking with more custom gunsmiths that do benchrest and long range rifles, you will hear comments like, "Don't use Ruger actions for a custom Re-barrel". However, I have used two blued Ruger 77 Tang safety actions with no issues for custom Hart barrels to be installed.
After talking with several custom gunsmith on this project, what probably happened relates to the assembly process. Either the action is turned onto the barrel with power or vise a versa. The leading edge of both of the thread starts came into contact with each other and something had to give. The power of the machine just simply crammed the two together. No human could have screwed these two parts together, the process had to be accomplished under power with the other part held in a jig fixture.
With all the wonderful customer service that I personally have had over the years from Ruger, it is a shame to have a black eye like this...$1000 is a big hit to take.
I have got a call into Bob Davis, I don't expect much...hope I am surprised. The gunsmith already has had multiple conversations to no avail.
When the Warranty states that you alter the gun, there is no Warranty, even if Ruger has faulty QC when it was assembled. I have now accepted the fact that my Rugers should not be the base for future custom builds, nor should I send back some of my well shot out Rugers for a factory Re-barrel. Every gunsmith I have used has said that I should not use any of my Rugers as the basis for a custom gun...they finally have my attention.
Bricktop, I had rather wipe my azz with one ply toilet paper than to satisfy you. Monday, call the guy with the phone# that I listed and you will be satisfied that all is kosher, but I think you had rather spew hate and work through your Bi-polar disorder, up the dosage on you pills.
I have got a call into Bob Davis, I don't expect much...hope I am surprised. The gunsmith already has had multiple conversations to no avail.
When the Warranty states that you alter the gun, there is no Warranty, even if Ruger has faulty QC when it was assembled. I have now accepted the fact that my Rugers should not be the base for future custom builds, nor should I send back some of my well shot out Rugers for a factory Re-barrel. Every gunsmith I have used has said that I should not use any of my Rugers as the basis for a custom gun...they finally have my attention.
Bricktop, I had rather wipe my azz with one ply toilet paper than to satisfy you. Monday, call the guy with the phone# that I listed and you will be satisfied that all is kosher, but I think you had rather spew hate and work through your Bi-polar disorder, up the dosage on you pills.
AS STATED IN THE PREVIOUSLY POSTED RUGER OWNER'S' MANUAL EXCERPT -- THERE IS NO WARRANTY, DUMBASS. RUGER FIREARMS HAVE NOT HAD A WARRANTY SINCE 1978. PLEASE PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS (FOR A CHANGE) AND POST THE REQUESTED RUGER WORK ORDER AND CORRESPONDENCE.
Dipshit looks for things to argue about. That's his thing. Then wants to show he's the world's biggest @sshole.
Sort of like you want to show you're the world's biggest ass-kisser. You must've needed to get some air from sucking keith's dick, hence your latest "contribution."
Why wouldn't you send one back for a factory re-barrel?
MagMarc, no doubt that the best barrels that Ruger has ever made are being put on guns right now, they are extremely smooth and copper foul very little.
I think that they have a glitch in their assembly process where the barrel is screwed onto the action (or vise a versa) under power. Any slight mis alignment will end up with a job just like the one that I have now. Also, if the two pieces are started being screwed together under power, you have numerous ways to end up with a cross threaded action.
All companies have employees that make mistakes, we all have bad days. Employees also have a learning curve to master their specific task. When a company does not back up THEIR mistake, that is where I have a problem.
No one could be more disappointed in Ruger than I am.
I will agree the best barrels Ruger has ever made is right now.
It may be worth your time if you need a re-barrel to call and talk to the service dept about how they install replacement tubes. If they take them down to the line to install them or do it by hand in the repair shop.
Why wouldn't you send one back for a factory re-barrel?
MagMarc, no doubt that the best barrels that Ruger has ever made are being put on guns right now, they are extremely smooth and copper foul very little.
I think that they have a glitch in their assembly process where the barrel is screwed onto the action (or vise a versa) under power. Any slight mis alignment will end up with a job just like the one that I have now. Also, if the two pieces are started being screwed together under power, you have numerous ways to end up with a cross threaded action.
All companies have employees that make mistakes, we all have bad days. Employees also have a learning curve to master their specific task. When a company does not back up THEIR mistake, that is where I have a problem.
No one could be more disappointed in Ruger than I am.
When are you going to post the work order and correspondence from Ruger?
You should put some effort into reading. Just a little.
Are you this pleasant in person?
Do you ask a lot of stupid questions in person? Most people don't out of fear of embarrassment.
Yep, I ask a lot of questions. Best way to learn.
Speaking of fear, one thing I've learned is that the anonymity of the internet, gives some the courage to act really tough.
Asking stupid questions doesn't gain you anything, dumbass.
And as for the "anonymity of the internet," it works both ways, nitwit. People have the courage to ask and state embarrassingly moronic things that their egos and sense of shame would never allow them to do in person.
Your kindergarten potty mouth and name calling are quite impressive. I know it's difficult for you to express yourself without it.
Would love to spend more time it this stimulating dialog. But I've leaned all I need to know about you. Gotta rearrange my sock drawer. Have a wonderful day.
Your kindergarten potty mouth and name calling are quite impressive. I know it's difficult for you to express yourself without it.
Would love to spend more time it this stimulating dialog. But I've leaned all I need to know about you. Gotta rearrange my sock drawer. Have a wonderful day.
I figured you, Ackman, and keith were going to have a pig roast anyway. If you know what I mean. And I think you do.
I think that they have a glitch in their assembly process where the barrel is screwed onto the action (or vise a versa) under power.
I really don't think Ruger has a "glitch" in their assembly line. of all the possible scenarios, that has to be the least possible.
The only "glitch" is in his story. He keeps dancing around offering any actual proof, obfuscating the subject, and feigning anger the more pointed the questions become. If there're any less credible fairy tales, I can't think of one at the moment.
I'm surprised the smith didn't realize something was off after he failed to be able to remove the stock with ease. It seems to me after breaking the action screw (red flag) he should have stopped and sent the rifle in to ruger. I have no doubt that they would have treated the repair differently.
No dog in the fight. Don't care- Just for u'r info no need to remove barrel to thread for a muzzle. Action will stick out the tailstock whether on or off.
Originally Posted by keith
Elderly friend bought a laminated SS model in 6.5 Creedmore. He sent the rifle to the gunsmith to have him put on a muzzle break.
Threads stripped when the gunsmith tried to remove the barrel. Reason that threads stripped...barrel was started into the action crooked.
The entire package was sent back to Ruger, they said they would not warranty the gun due to the fact that the gunsmith removed the barrel...tough titty...$700 shot to Hell! They did offer him the same rifle in a blued version for $500....mitty WHITE of them don't you think???
I say, thank your lucky stars if you have a good Ruger, from now on, buy any other another brand on the market!
Dipshit looks for things to argue about. That's his thing. Then wants to show he's the world's biggest @sshole.
Sort of like you want to show you're the world's biggest ass-kisser. You must've needed to get some air from sucking keith's dick, hence your latest "contribution."
Good one. Give it your best shot there big talker.
Dipshit looks for things to argue about. That's his thing. Then wants to show he's the world's biggest @sshole.
Sort of like you want to show you're the world's biggest ass-kisser. You must've needed to get some air from sucking keith's dick, hence your latest "contribution."
Good one. Give it your best shot there big talker.
When you and your domestic partner keith get unhitched for a moment, post up that Ruger work order and correspondence. I'll let you two pickle lickers resume whatever it is you two do behind closed doors with one another on Friday nights in the meantime.
I think that they have a glitch in their assembly process where the barrel is screwed onto the action (or vise a versa) under power.
I really don't think Ruger has a "glitch" in their assembly line. of all the possible scenarios, that has to be the least possible.
I've taken lots of barrels off and put lots of them on. Those receivers are very hard. It would take a huge amount of effort to force a barrel on and chew up threads like that, I doubt a person could do it.
When you and your domestic partner keith get unhitched for a moment, post up that Ruger work order and correspondence. I'll let you two pickle lickers resume whatever it is you two do behind closed doors with one another on Friday nights in the meantime. [/quote]
You dumb@ss. It was in an earlier post, correspondence is stapled to the riflebuilder's wall. About 150 miles away. Bigmouth bricktop hasn't the sense to shut up.
When you and your domestic partner keith get unhitched for a moment, post up that Ruger work order and correspondence. I'll let you two pickle lickers resume whatever it is you two do behind closed doors with one another on Friday nights in the meantime.
You dumb@ss. It was in an earlier post, correspondence is stapled to the riflebuilder's wall. About 150 miles away. Bigmouth bricktop hasn't the sense to shut up.
A "riflebuilder's [sic] wall" isn't where it can be read in this forum. You dumbass.
The more you two dickheads tell this fairy tale, the more outlandish it becomes.
When you and your domestic partner keith get unhitched for a moment, post up that Ruger work order and correspondence. I'll let you two pickle lickers resume whatever it is you two do behind closed doors with one another on Friday nights in the meantime.
You dumb@ss. It was in an earlier post, correspondence is stapled to the riflebuilder's wall. About 150 miles away. Bigmouth bricktop hasn't the sense to shut up.
A "riflebuilder's [sic] wall" isn't where it can be read in this forum. You dumbass.
The more you two dickheads tell this fairy tale, the more outlandish it becomes.
Brickhead dipsh*t is beyond stupid. Precision Rifle and Tool....why should he care what some @sshole on this forum demands. You oughta shut up.
When you and your domestic partner keith get unhitched for a moment, post up that Ruger work order and correspondence. I'll let you two pickle lickers resume whatever it is you two do behind closed doors with one another on Friday nights in the meantime.
You dumb@ss. It was in an earlier post, correspondence is stapled to the riflebuilder's wall. About 150 miles away. Bigmouth bricktop hasn't the sense to shut up.
A "riflebuilder's [sic] wall" isn't where it can be read in this forum. You dumbass.
The more you two dickheads tell this fairy tale, the more outlandish it becomes.
Brickhead dipsh*t is beyond stupid. Precision Rifle and Tool....why should he care what some @sshole on this forum demands. You oughta shut up.
"Precision Rifle and Tool" = not this forum, knucklehead.
Typical "fight or flight" response from a jackass caught in a lie. You and your life partner keith seem to have an emotional investment that this story be believed. A lot of name dropping, a lot of phony anger, but you knotheads keep avoiding the most basic item: THE RUGER WORK ORDER AND CORRESPONDENCE.
You two ladies keep stating you don't care if anyone believes the story, but you both keep posting.
So which is it? If you want to be believed, then post the requested documents and we'll analyze them. Otherwise, you both look like liars. It's that simple.
"Precision Rifle and Tool" = not this forum, knucklehead.
Typical "fight or flight" response from a jackass caught in a lie. You and your life partner keith seem to have an emotional investment that this story be believed. A lot of name dropping, a lot of phony anger, but you knotheads keep avoiding the most basic item: THE RUGER WORK ORDER AND CORRESPONDENCE.
You two ladies keep stating you don't care if anyone believes the story, but you both keep posting.
So which is it? If you want to be believed, then post the requested documents and we'll analyze them. Otherwise, you both look like liars. It's that simple.
"Precision Rifle and Tool" = not this forum, knucklehead.
Typical "fight or flight" response from a jackass caught in a lie. You and your life partner keith seem to have an emotional investment that this story be believed. A lot of name dropping, a lot of phony anger, but you knotheads keep avoiding the most basic item: THE RUGER WORK ORDER AND CORRESPONDENCE.
You two ladies keep stating you don't care if anyone believes the story, but you both keep posting.
So which is it? If you want to be believed, then post the requested documents and we'll analyze them. Otherwise, you both look like liars. It's that simple.
Another good one. Dipsh*t with a big mouth.
And more self-righteous indignation.
Post the Ruger work order and correspondence. Save your anger for keith and pound town.
Folks have trouble reading....front guard screw could not be removed due to epoxy in the front guard screw hole in the action straight from Ruger. Front guard screw was epoxied in solid, and the stock could not be removed from the action.
Front guard screw had to be drilled out and removed with an eezy out prior the action being able to be pulled from the stock.
After checking with more custom gunsmiths that do benchrest and long range rifles, you will hear comments like, "Don't use Ruger actions for a custom Re-barrel". However, I have used two blued Ruger 77 Tang safety actions with no issues for custom Hart barrels to be installed.
After talking with several custom gunsmith on this project, what probably happened relates to the assembly process. Either the action is turned onto the barrel with power or vise a versa. The leading edge of both of the thread starts came into contact with each other and something had to give. The power of the machine just simply crammed the two together. No human could have screwed these two parts together, the process had to be accomplished under power with the other part held in a jig fixture.
With all the wonderful customer service that I personally have had over the years from Ruger, it is a shame to have a black eye like this...$1000 is a big hit to take.
Ok, honest question without the dumbass and dickheads. Does Ruger put epoxy on all barrel/action assemblies when put together?
"Precision Rifle and Tool" = not this forum, knucklehead.
Typical "fight or flight" response from a jackass caught in a lie. You and your life partner keith seem to have an emotional investment that this story be believed. A lot of name dropping, a lot of phony anger, but you knotheads keep avoiding the most basic item: THE RUGER WORK ORDER AND CORRESPONDENCE.
You two ladies keep stating you don't care if anyone believes the story, but you both keep posting.
So which is it? If you want to be believed, then post the requested documents and we'll analyze them. Otherwise, you both look like liars. It's that simple.
Another good one. Dipsh*t with a big mouth.
And more self-righteous indignation.
Post the Ruger work order and correspondence. Save your anger for keith and pound town.
I'll be glad when you go away again. You are an assclown of the highest order. You sound like a 12 year.
"Precision Rifle and Tool" = not this forum, knucklehead.
Typical "fight or flight" response from a jackass caught in a lie. You and your life partner keith seem to have an emotional investment that this story be believed. A lot of name dropping, a lot of phony anger, but you knotheads keep avoiding the most basic item: THE RUGER WORK ORDER AND CORRESPONDENCE.
You two ladies keep stating you don't care if anyone believes the story, but you both keep posting.
So which is it? If you want to be believed, then post the requested documents and we'll analyze them. Otherwise, you both look like liars. It's that simple.
Another good one. Dipsh*t with a big mouth.
And more self-righteous indignation.
Post the Ruger work order and correspondence. Save your anger for keith and pound town.
I'll be glad when you go away again. You are an assclown of the highest order. You sound like a 12 year.
rickmenefee, this gunsmith has very exacting standards. He will indicate on the lands on the muzzle end and the chamber end to the 0.0001 that is sticking out of the head stock.
Butler247, good point. Gunsmith did not remove front guard screw, that was done at home. Hindsight being 20/20, gun should have been sent to Ruger at this point. No one could have imagined what an incredible mess the threads turned out to be on the action and the barrel tenon.
Bricktop, I got a call into Bob Davis today, really nice guy. He is going to see what he can do after Ruger re-opens after 9 days closed next week. I discussed with him two different malfunctions that could have happened, cross threading due to misalignment with power screwing the action on, and the other Posibility where the thread gualing started due to the action and the barrel's Rockwell hardness being too close. Bob told me that the barrels were hand screwed on, so that possibility is out. The reality of the Rockwell hardness being too close between the two mating metals is real. He said that Ruger did not put epoxy on threads, but it is apparent that epoxy is on threads of this action,(after the trip to and fro from Ruger) that shocked him.
Bricktop, thanks for mentioning Bob's name in your correspondence, that gave me a place to re-start an attempt to save a gun. The Customer service rep told me that there was no one else to talk to (such as her supervisor) previously.
No matter the consequences, I appreciate Bob Davis' attitude and help in trying to resolve the matter.
Does Ruger put epoxy on all barrel/action assemblies when put together?
What actions do they bed before shipping?
None........ and none.......
I agree after talking to Bob Davis who is in Custom Service. He said that they did not put Epoxy on the threads of actions during assembly. However, some gunsmiths disagree with this statement. The action had the front trigger guard action screw epoxied in, and in the pictures that are posted on the interior of the action, you can see where there is epoxy in the front trigger guard screw hole. This epoxy had be applied during the assembly of the action and barrel because the barreled action had not been put in the stock. Again, we could not even get the action out of the stock when the rifle was new due to the epoxy around the front action screw.
My take is that there was a rare problem that happened during the assembly, and an employee went way outside the box to fix the problem vs scrapping the whole gun.
The problem is probably what we have seen before on some of the first Browning A bolt stainless and some 1911 in 45 ACP where there is severe gauling between stainless parts that are close to the same Rockwell Hardness. It only takes a little bit of gauling to cause threads to strip, both on assembly and disassembly when thread tolerances are tight.
Unless you want to possibly find yourself trying to depend on the Good Will of a Customer Service Manager after you have Scrapped your gun, simply don't take it apart. The amount of Good Will a Customer Service Rep may be able to exercise, may have limits based on Budget constraints.
The very best Rugers that have ever been made are being made today, they are more accurate than the Rugers made in the 80's, and they copper foul much less. Ruger Stainless barrels made today feel as smooth as Hart, Bartlin, etc barrels when pushing tight patches through them. Just do not take one of them apart unless you are willing to take a chance on having a similar experience.
In two weeks we will hear something from Ruger(I hope).
Brick, on Monday, call the gunsmith that I gave you the phone number of...it will be better than seeing paperwork. He made a video of removing the barrel from the action.
Maybe I should post that video on You tube as a training aid as to why you should not take a Ruger apart?
Keith you edit nearly everything you post on this. One particular post where you said "Like the mess you have on your hands now" about trusting Ruger to re-barrel a rifle (Its been edited out now). I thought it was an elderly friends gun, why is it your mess? I don't believe we're getting the full story.
Originally Posted by huntsman22
Originally Posted by calikooknic
Does Ruger put epoxy on all barrel/action assemblies when put together?
What actions do they bed before shipping?
None........ and none.......
Agreed. I don't think Ruger was the source of the epoxy.
So, there is one question really here- why not just chase the threads, spin and go.... If I was faced with that on a car I sure wouldn't junk it over that little pos bug.
After reading all this I am pretty sure the "expert" gunsmith in all this is a little floor sweeping shop monkey named Keith who got carried away playing with the lathe.
In two weeks we will hear something from Ruger(I hope).
Brick, on Monday, call the gunsmith that I gave you the phone number of...it will be better than seeing paperwork. He made a video of removing the barrel from the action.
Maybe I should post that video on You tube as a training aid as to why you should not take a Ruger apart?
Quit pfuking around and post the Ruger work order and correspondence. No one gives a damn about any YouTube videos.
MagMarc, it is my best friend's gun. He is really not up to the fight, he is heart sick of this problem.
Ruger is indeed the source of the epoxy, remember, the front guard screw was epoxied in, we could not remove the action from the stock.
You are getting all the story as I know it.
Colo Wolf, if you go back and look at the pictures of the threads, when the threads gauled, they ripped out hunks of metal. I talked to Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan rifles, and he said that it was $600 to fix if there was enough barrel shank to cut off all threads and re-chamber the barrel. I don't think that there is enough barrel shank for a re-chamber.
Bottom line, don't disassemble a Ruger, use another brand of action instead.
After the fiasco with the front guard screw, we shot this 6.5 Creedmore without it having been bedded. The rifle would shoot 1" groups, sometimes smaller. This is why we sent it to the gunsmith for pillar bedding the stock and muzzle break. We put perhaps 150 rounds down the tube prior to sending it to the gunsmith.
After dealing with this issue, the gunsmith will not touch another Ruger for a customer in any way, he says his time is just too valuable.
From the looks of the mess made with the Ruger, IF he was the one who did it and that is a BIG IF to my mind, he is a second rate smith at best.
Moreover, if Ruger was letting guns like that out of the factory their liability lawyers would have a slobberin duck fit. No way Ruger is going to risk such liability.
From the looks of the mess made with the Ruger, IF he was the one who did it and that is a BIG IF to my mind, he is a second rate smith at best.
Moreover, if Ruger was letting guns like that out of the factory their liability lawyers would have a slobberin duck fit. No way Ruger is going to risk such liability.
Save a few bucks on scrap to open yourself to the possibility of huge liability suit....................... sure.
"Ok, honest question without the dumbass and dickheads. Does Ruger put epoxy on all barrel/action assemblies when put together?
What actions do they bed before shipping?"
1. Ruger beds no actions prior to shipping.
2. There is a variety of answers from 4 different gunsmiths that I talked with concerning epoxy on threads shipped from the factory. Some say that they have seen epoxy on factory rifle threads, some say that they have not. Honestly, this is the first one that I have ever seen that has had epoxy on the threads. Then again, I have only had two customs built on Rugers and they were both blued actions. My friend just had a custom built on a SS Ruger in 6.5x47L. I don't know if it had epoxy on the threads or not.
3. Sean, the big issue here is not epoxy on the threads, it was more of a hindrance than anything. The big issue is the Rockwell hardness that was so close between the barrel and the action. This causes severe gauling in stainless, and on the Stainess steel will rip and tear with just a slight bit of gauling, depending on many factors in concerning the thread dia, and the pitch angle that the threads are cut at.
4. When threads are really messed up and the action is screwed on the barrel anyway, epoxy is applied to keep barrel from shifting around under the stresses of recoil and heat.
"Ok, honest question without the dumbass and dickheads. Does Ruger put epoxy on all barrel/action assemblies when put together?
What actions do they bed before shipping?"
1. Ruger beds no actions prior to shipping.
2. There is a variety of answers from 4 different gunsmiths that I talked with concerning epoxy on threads shipped from the factory. Some say that they have seen epoxy on factory rifle threads, some say that they have not. Honestly, this is the first one that I have ever seen that has had epoxy on the threads. Then again, I have only had two customs built on Rugers and they were both blued actions. My friend just had a custom built on a SS Ruger in 6.5x47L. I don't know if it had epoxy on the threads or not.
3. Sean, the big issue here is not epoxy on the threads, it was more of a hindrance than anything. The big issue is the Rockwell hardness that was so close between the barrel and the action. This causes severe gauling in stainless, and on the Stainess steel will rip and tear with just a slight bit of gauling, depending on many factors in concerning the thread dia, and the pitch angle that the threads are cut at.
4. When threads are really messed up and the action is screwed on the barrel anyway, epoxy is applied to keep barrel from shifting around under the stresses of recoil and heat.
3. Sean, the big issue here is not epoxy on the threads, it was more of a hindrance than anything. The big issue is the Rockwell hardness that was so close between the barrel and the action. This causes severe gauling in stainless, and on the Stainess steel will rip and tear with just a slight bit of gauling, depending on many factors in concerning the thread dia, and the pitch angle that the threads are cut at.
4. When threads are really messed up and the action is screwed on the barrel anyway, epoxy is applied to keep barrel from shifting around under the stresses of recoil and heat.
3. Sean, the big issue here is not epoxy on the threads, it was more of a hindrance than anything. The big issue is the Rockwell hardness that was so close between the barrel and the action. This causes severe gauling in stainless, and on the Stainess steel will rip and tear with just a slight bit of gauling, depending on many factors in concerning the thread dia, and the pitch angle that the threads are cut at.
4. When threads are really messed up and the action is screwed on the barrel anyway, epoxy is applied to keep barrel from shifting around under the stresses of recoil and heat.
Pure supposition because you have nothing else.
There's no way to know exactly why that gun came through the way it did. Except that someone at Ruger screwed up big time and did what they did to get the thing together and out the door. When the powers meet in 10 days, they "should" be able to figure out why it happened.
3. Sean, the big issue here is not epoxy on the threads, it was more of a hindrance than anything. The big issue is the Rockwell hardness that was so close between the barrel and the action. This causes severe gauling in stainless, and on the Stainess steel will rip and tear with just a slight bit of gauling, depending on many factors in concerning the thread dia, and the pitch angle that the threads are cut at.
4. When threads are really messed up and the action is screwed on the barrel anyway, epoxy is applied to keep barrel from shifting around under the stresses of recoil and heat.
Pure supposition because you have nothing else.
There's no way to know exactly why that gun came through the way it did. Except that someone at Ruger screwed up big time and did what they did to get the thing together and out the door. When the powers meet in 10 days, they "should" be able to figure out why it happened.
Not one once of proof Ruger did it. The "smith" in question or Kieth could have caused the problems. Just consider for a moment Keith did some at home smithing and screwed up, sent to the smith to bail him out and he couldn't so he kicked the can to Ruger. Crazier things have happened.
Big time relevant. You two ass-lickers can't produce even an ounce of proof.
Your rants and yelling hissy-fits, you'll always be irrelevant.
You and your "life partner" keith are mad because he's been caught in a lie and you've embarrassed yourself by trying to defend him. Now you're waging a game of petty insults to save face. No one else is coming to his defense at this point and no one is coming to yours. Just cut your losses.
Not one once of proof Ruger did it. The "smith" in question or Kieth could have caused the problems. Just consider for a moment Keith did some at home smithing and screwed up, sent to the smith to bail him out and he couldn't so he kicked the can to Ruger. Crazier things have happened.
Crazier things may have happened, you're right. But you ass-ume a lot without knowing sh#t. Nobody tried to reinstall that barrel. Fact is, the riflebuilder (excellent credentials, check his website) pulled that barrel to install a brake and found what's in the pictures. Some real wimps on here, don't want to accept that a company they like has screwed up.
You and your "life partner" keith are mad because he's been caught in a lie and you've embarrassed yourself by trying to defend him. Now you're waging a game of petty insults to save face. No one else is coming to his defense at this point and no one is coming to yours. Just cut your losses.
Keith and I have been friends since the mid 80's. He's one of the most honest people I know. We talk guns a lot and don't bs each other. If he says it is, then it is.
There'd be no reason to lie about stuff like this anyway. What the h#ll for? Some people come on here just to stir things up, he isn't one of them.
MagMarc, the gunsmith did not want to deal with the Ruger in the first place, not his first Rodeo with Ruger. He sat up a video camera just in case, sure nuff, the job went to hell. Ray is one mad SOB at Ruger.
After we had the incident of getting the front guard screw out that had been epoxied in, we shot the rifle after adjusting the trigger(you are not supposed to do that either). The rifle was shooting two groups indicating the need for bedding. So off to the gunsmith the rifle goes for pilar bedding and muzzle break.
The rest is history.
We have perhaps half a dozen rifles (Rem 700's and customs) that Ray Boman has completed and they are masterpieces of machine work and gunsmithing. Everyone of his rifles shoots very tiny groups with very little load development.
Brick, you need to spend a quarter and call Ray on Monday, ask him about this Ruger fiasco, and ask him if he video taped the disassembly. Mike is a machinist there also, he saw the mess that is now a scrap heap.
Keith and I have been friends since the mid 80's. He's one of the most honest people I know. We talk guns a lot and don't bs each other. If he says it is, then it is.
There'd be no reason to lie about stuff like this anyway. What the h#ll for? Some people come on here just to stir things up, he isn't one of them.
No one cares how long the two of you have been cornholing one another. Your little relationship doesn't add any credibility.
You're right, "people" do try to "stir things up." Especially when they've been caught in a lie.
MagMarc, the gunsmith did not want to deal with the Ruger in the first place, not his first Rodeo with Ruger. He sat up a video camera just in case, sure nuff, the job went to hell. Ray is one mad SOB at Ruger.
After we had the incident of getting the front guard screw out that had been epoxied in, we shot the rifle after adjusting the trigger(you are not supposed to do that either). The rifle was shooting two groups indicating the need for bedding. So off to the gunsmith the rifle goes for pilar bedding and muzzle break.
The rest is history.
We have perhaps half a dozen rifles (Rem 700's and customs) that Ray Boman has completed and they are masterpieces of machine work and gunsmithing. Everyone of his rifles shoots very tiny groups with very little load development.
Brick, you need to spend a quarter and call Ray on Monday, ask him about this Ruger fiasco, and ask him if he video taped the disassembly. Mike is a machinist there also, he saw the mess that is now a scrap heap.
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I can pretty well guess Beavis & Butthead's response to this: the gunsmith in question builds kick-ass rifles, they've known each other for over 20 years, Ruger "screwed the pooch" on this, keith's "elderly neighbor" is out a bunch of money, the "gunsmith" has videos, why would anyone lie about this, and so on and so forth.
Keith does not have the work order, the gunsmith has it. He gets to write off all the work and lost time on his taxes.
Brick, I don't think that the gunsmith would give you 3 seconds of his time on this board. He is very busy building guns and we will be very lucky if we get the next project gun back from him within 6 months, 9 months is more like it(Remington Model 7 action, #4 contour Brux barrel, 1-8 twist, 24" long in 6.5 Creedmore, McMillen edge stock).
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I've read about this riflebuilder, lots of posts on different shooting forums. But I'm not a customer, where'd I ever say he'd built me a gun(s)? He's 2000 miles away. I'm sure the guy couldn't care less what you and couple other mouthy idiots believe. But since you're so positive, call him. Shouldn't be too hard, his number's on the website.
My first RU77 back in mid-70's was a 77V tang in .25-06, factory standard, no tinkering. I think it had chamber problems, but with (at the time ) $19.95 Lee Loader fire-formed, neck-sized reloads it went to sub MOA from about 5" with factory loads at 100. Killed 23 caribou over 2 years time with it out to over 500 yds. and foolishly sold it when I moved back to moose country.. Had a gorgeous full length fiddleback stock on it. Dammit.
I currently own 2 tang-models in '06 (17 inch bbl after I whacked that unsightly muzzle bulge off after buying it used), and a .338WM. Both shoot 1.25 MOA or less with danged near anything, after (self) trigger jobs, action bedding and free-floating.. First thing I killed with that 17 inch bbl was a Dall ram at about 330 yards - longest kill with it so far was a caribou bull at about 356 yards.
For the .338 I have some data for Sierra 250s that I threw together as junk loads (I was using Premium ammo for hunting at the time) to test out a scope after rifle and scope fell 30 feet out of a tree stand. After the Tasco scope proved reliable again, I tested for group with the last few loads (save 3 which after 15 years or so, I still have - in case I ever need a long range load... ) The first 3 shot group went 7/8 inch, the second 3 shot group went just over an inch. At 200 yards. These loads print about 2 inches higher at 100 than those other junk loads (MOA) I threw together to get rid of all those really ugly Hornady 250 RN bullets someone gave me. I still have about 100 of those. Too ugly to look at, too good not to use hunting... Don't you just hate that?
At the rate I'm using these RN up (about 3 per year when I'm moose hunting (one to check sights, one to drop moose, one for insurance on walk-up) I'm probably gonna die before I get to use any really good reloads in the thing......
Neither rifles nor junk loads are for sale.
I'm a Ruger 77 fan, you bet. Both mine are currently mostly closet queens, as I'm currently using a Mauser 98 in '06 and a Rem 725 SA .260 for my hunting up here in NW Arctic Alaska tundra country where I am currently residing, used mostly for caribou, but any moose that wants to volunteer is certainly welcome with either caliber....and I've those reliable RU 77 rifles available if I get a weekend of moose or caribou hunting down on the Kenai come season, without packing same back and forth.
One of these days, I should probably buy me a Win 70- just to round things out like...never personally owned one, but have used 'em as pack rifles with USFS and ADF&G. Even whacked a caribou once with one (.375WM) out on the Alaska Peninsula when we were short of camp meat. Decent rifle.
Keith does not have the work order, the gunsmith has it. He gets to write off all the work and lost time on his taxes.
Brick, I don't think that the gunsmith would give you 3 seconds of his time on this board. He is very busy building guns and we will be very lucky if we get the next project gun back from him within 6 months, 9 months is more like it(Remington Model 7 action, #4 contour Brux barrel, 1-8 twist, 24" long in 6.5 Creedmore, McMillen edge stock).
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I've read about this riflebuilder, lots of posts on different shooting forums. But I'm not a customer, where'd I ever say he'd built me a gun(s)? He's 2000 miles away. I'm sure the guy couldn't care less what you and couple other mouthy idiots believe. But since you're so positive, call him. Shouldn't be too hard, his number's on the website.
Would he care what two scumbags are trying to claim he did?
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I've read about this riflebuilder, lots of posts on different shooting forums. But I'm not a customer, where'd I ever say he'd built me a gun(s)? He's 2000 miles away. I'm sure the guy couldn't care less what you and couple other mouthy idiots believe. But since you're so positive, call him. Shouldn't be too hard, his number's on the website.
Oh, I am familiar with the reputation of this "smith." Let's just say that this Ruger ain't the first rifle he has ruined regardless of what his website says.
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I've read about this riflebuilder, lots of posts on different shooting forums. But I'm not a customer, where'd I ever say he'd built me a gun(s)? He's 2000 miles away. I'm sure the guy couldn't care less what you and couple other mouthy idiots believe. But since you're so positive, call him. Shouldn't be too hard, his number's on the website.
Oh, I am familiar with the reputation of this "smith." Let's just say that this Ruger ain't the first rifle he has ruined regardless of what his website says.
Would he care what two scumbags are trying to claim he did?
His number's on the website. Your panties are in wad so give him a call......you and the hillbilly dipsh*t. But you won't. You're a chickensh*t and being an @sshole is easy/safe with a keyboard. Hissyfits on every thread are how you get your jollies.
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I've read about this riflebuilder, lots of posts on different shooting forums. But I'm not a customer, where'd I ever say he'd built me a gun(s)? He's 2000 miles away. I'm sure the guy couldn't care less what you and couple other mouthy idiots believe. But since you're so positive, call him. Shouldn't be too hard, his number's on the website.
Oh, I am familiar with the reputation of this "smith." Let's just say that this Ruger ain't the first rifle he has ruined regardless of what his website says.
There it is..... innuendo. Explain that, prove it. explain that.
There it is..... innuendo. Explain that, prove it. explain that.
And Keith's assumptions about Ruger's manufacturing methods aren't? Prove Ruger screwed up the rifle, not that you believe everything your good buddy post.
There it is..... innuendo. Explain that, prove it. explain that.
And Keith's assumptions about Ruger's manufacturing methods aren't? Prove Ruger screwed up the rifle, not that you believe everything your good buddy post.
Crybaby wimps on here.....can't stand hearing anything negative about something they like. Believe whatever you wish, it doesn't matter.
Would he care what two scumbags are trying to claim he did?
His number's on the website. Your panties are in wad so give him a call......you and the hillbilly dipsh*t. But you won't. You're a chickensh*t and being an @sshole is easy/safe with a keyboard. Hissyfits on every thread are how you get your jollies.
If this super gunsmith (????) is savvy enough to have a gilt edged website and build all these super guns and Keith and Ackman are good customers of long standing why hasn't he chimed in on this debacle for no other reason than to keep himself from looking like a ham-fisted amateur gun plumber?
Shouldn't be too hard to get him to do that.
I've read about this riflebuilder, lots of posts on different shooting forums. But I'm not a customer, where'd I ever say he'd built me a gun(s)? He's 2000 miles away. I'm sure the guy couldn't care less what you and couple other mouthy idiots believe. But since you're so positive, call him. Shouldn't be too hard, his number's on the website.
Oh, I am familiar with the reputation of this "smith." Let's just say that this Ruger ain't the first rifle he has ruined regardless of what his website says.
There it is..... innuendo. Explain that, prove it. explain that.
Just as soon as you two varmints post up the Ruger work order.
There it is..... innuendo. Explain that, prove it. explain that.
And Keith's assumptions about Ruger's manufacturing methods aren't? Prove Ruger screwed up the rifle, not that you believe everything your good buddy post.
Crybaby wimps on here.....can't stand hearing anything negative about something they like. Believe whatever you wish, it doesn't matter.
Crybaby wimps on here.....can't stand hearing anything negative about something they like. Believe whatever you wish, it doesn't matter.
Kinda like your smith with the pretty site? Crybaby Huh
Originally Posted by Ackman
Yap dog. You ASS-ume things that aren't and claim things were said, that weren't. You're a dumb @sshole.
Originally Posted by Ackgirl
There's the azzhole....vitriolic prick calling it on someone else. Nothing to explore about this, you just don't know what you're talking about. Try doing something different and learn. Don't give me sh*t about what I do.
Originally Posted by Ackgirl
You give yourself too much credit. You're ignorant and too dumb to realize it. Your posts have proven that. Want to learn something, teach yoursownself. You're delusional thinking anybody would waste half a day for some dipsh*t they don't like. What you believe or don't believe isn't important.
At least Keith is a gentleman not a whinny little girl.
Except keith offered to post the work order, moron.[/url]
Just admit the ONLY reason you're still in this thread is to try and save face.
Your girl keith was caught in a lie. Period.
No, that's a lie. What Keith said was.....if he posted the work order, then what would you say, just more BS. Which is true. Plus he doesn't have it. Again....if you really want to know, call the riflesmith and ask. But you won't, you're a whiny chickensh#t who likes to talk big and hissy fit on every thread.
There it is..... innuendo. Explain that, prove it. explain that.
And Keith's assumptions about Ruger's manufacturing methods aren't? Prove Ruger screwed up the rifle, not that you believe everything your good buddy post.
Crybaby wimps on here.....can't stand hearing anything negative about something they like. Believe whatever you wish, it doesn't matter.
No, we just don't brook no bullschitt.
Except your own. You're good at inuendo bullsh*t so tell about this riflesmith and Ruger. Prove something.
Just admit the ONLY reason you're still in this thread is to try and save face.
Your girl keith was caught in a lie. Period.
No, that's a lie. What Keith said was.....if he posted the work order, then what would you say, just more BS. Which is true. Plus he doesn't have it. Again....if you really want to know, call the riflesmith and ask. But you won't, you're a whiny chickensh#t who likes to talk big and hissy fit on every thread.
Just admit the ONLY reason you're still in this thread is to try and save face.
Your girl keith was caught in a lie. Period.
No, that's a lie. What Keith said was.....if he posted the work order, then what would you say, just more BS. Which is true. Plus he doesn't have it. Again....if you really want to know, call the riflesmith and ask. But you won't, you're a whiny chickensh#t who likes to talk big and hissy fit on every thread.
No, that's a lie. What Keith said was.....if he posted the work order, then what would you say, just more BS. Which is true. Plus he doesn't have it. Again....if you really want to know, call the riflesmith and ask. But you won't, you're a whiny chickensh#t who likes to talk big and hissy fit on every thread.
Brickhead keeps repeating the same thing. Knows the answer but keeps on. His little thing, plays the same kind of rant game on every thread. Says "he's on here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And he's all out of bubblegum." Yeah right. He's a chickensh*t who likes to mouth off big 'cause he can get away with it on the internet. A mouthy punk.
BTW - I like Rugers. Used to shoot competition with them. Used to collect them. Have several now and had a whole bunch over the years. And had good satisfaction with their service dept. Keith too. The owner of the screwed up rifle in question has been a hardcore Ruger fanatic for a very long time and owns a ton of them.
Seems I opened up a can or worms starting this thread. And, all I wanted to know was how folks felt about the rifle.It appears what got started was a Hatfields and McCoys.
Brickhead keeps repeating the same thing. Knows the answer but keeps on. His little thing, plays the same kind of rant game on every thread. Says "he's on here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And he's all out of bubblegum." Yeah right. He's a chickensh*t who likes to mouth off big 'cause he can get away with it on the internet. A mouthy punk.
Besides pathological liar, add dyslexic moron to your resume: you're completely ass-backwards in your statement. Scumbags -- like you and keith -- don't make moronic claims like this in public out of fear of embarrassment, retribution, and being told to STFU in front of everyone you're attempting to impress. The two of you ladies -- keith, in particular -- have made offers of proof that you're apparently hoping everyone forgets, hence the repeated requests to stop the bullshit and just produce.
Seems I opened up a can or worms starting this thread. And, all I wanted to know was how folks felt about the rifle.It appears what got started was a Hatfields and McCoys.
The model 77 has been in constant production through various iterations for 46 years and is one of Ruger's top sellers. How do you think people feel about them?
Seems I opened up a can or worms starting this thread. And, all I wanted to know was how folks felt about the rifle.It appears what got started was a Hatfields and McCoys.
Comedy gold, really. My 77 .300wm is a boat anchor, but flat out the most accurate rifle I own. I have a scrap book of memories from that gun.
Brickhead keeps repeating the same thing. Knows the answer but keeps on. His little thing, plays the same kind of rant game on every thread. Says "he's on here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And he's all out of bubblegum." Yeah right. He's a chickensh*t who likes to mouth off big 'cause he can get away with it on the internet. A mouthy punk.
Best rugers that have ever been made are being made right now.
However, "they are not MADE to be taken apart", and I am quoting Ruger in this statement.
So, don't take Ruger apart, or you may find yourself going through what my friend is going through in trying to get a replacement. When your barrel is worn out on your Ruger, send it to Ruger for a replacement barrel, then it is on them if the threads strip out. Don't send your Ruger to a custom gunsmith for a custom barrel, if you do, you take your chances. There is nothing difficult in understanding that Rugers should not be taken apart.
The test of a company's customer service is not how they handle issues that are obviously their fault, but how they handle issues that are questionable that MAY have been their fault to serve their customer base.
We use our Rugers for what they are intended, as stock factory rifles, and they serve us well.
Best rugers that have ever been made are being made right now.
However, "they are not MADE to be taken apart", and I am quoting Ruger in this statement.
So, don't take Ruger apart, or you may find yourself going through what my friend is going through in trying to get a replacement. When your barrel is worn out on your Ruger, send it to Ruger for a replacement barrel, then it is on them if the threads strip out. Don't send your Ruger to a custom gunsmith for a custom barrel, if you do, you take your chances. There is nothing difficult in understanding that Rugers should not be taken apart.
The test of a company's customer service is not how they handle issues that are obviously their fault, but how they handle issues that are questionable that MAY have been their fault to serve their customer base.
We use our Rugers for what they are intended, as stock factory rifles, and they serve us well.
Best rugers that have ever been made are being made right now.
However, "they are not MADE to be taken apart", and I am quoting Ruger in this statement.
So, don't take Ruger apart, or you may find yourself going through what my friend is going through in trying to get a replacement. When your barrel is worn out on your Ruger, send it to Ruger for a replacement barrel, then it is on them if the threads strip out. Don't send your Ruger to a custom gunsmith for a custom barrel, if you do, you take your chances. There is nothing difficult in understanding that Rugers should not be taken apart.
The test of a company's customer service is not how they handle issues that are obviously their fault, but how they handle issues that are questionable that MAY have been their fault to serve their customer base.
We use our Rugers for what they are intended, as stock factory rifles, and they serve us well.
That would be true of most rifles today. Send a Remington, Winchester, Browning, whatever to a non authorized smith and you are taking your chances with warranty issues.
MagMarc, I think that your statement dead nuts true.
Winchester and Remington are great platforms for custom guns, threads are not known to gaul and strip in these two brands of actions.
I had the threads strip on the first model Browning A bolt stainess when the gunsmith tried to remove the barrel. As he started to turn the barrel off the action, he heard a crack that indicated a chunk of thread had broken free, and he was able to tighen the barrel back on the action. The gunsmith advise me immediately what had happened. I sent the gun to Browning and they sent me a brand new Stainless stalker within 2 weeks of receipt of the gun.
When the gunsmith tried to remove the factory barrel, he voided the factory warranty on the gun. Browning got a full letter from me detailing the issue of the Rockwell hardness being too close between the action and the barrel, which caused the gualing and stripping of a thread. Browning was fully aware of this issue, and they were just too happy to replace the gun. This is a great example of really great customer service. I have had Browning A Bolts in various calibers since the late 80's, but I no longer take them apart either.
Experience #1: Sent a used Blackhawk .357 Mag in for repairs as fired cartridges were dragging as they rotated around. The revolver was made in 1981 and I acquired it in 1999. Turned out the basepin (the pin that holds the cylinder in place) was bent. Ruger fixed it for free and paid the return shipping even though I offered to pay for everything.
Experience #2: Buddy bought a used and older Blackhawk in .357 Mag. It was subject to the recall. Ruger fixed it for free and paid the return shipping.
Experience #3: A very gently used M77 in .257 Roberts that was made in 1989 became mine in 2004. Many rounds later it became difficult to extract fired cases (had to jiggle the bolt to get things to line up). Earlier this year I sent it back to Ruger for repair. They received it, fixed it and had it on its way back to me before I thought they had time to receive it. Once again, no charges.
Experience #4: Some of the slotted ring screws were messed up on one of my rifles. I wanted to replace them with the Torx type and called Ruger to buy some. They sent me a package of them for free.
Experience #5: December 31 of last year I bought a MKII in .300WM as a wedding present for my future son-in-law (Augutst 29th). It was a was a display model but otherwise new. There were some scratches in the bluing and some minor dings in the stock but the price was one I couldn't refuse ($404.97). I sent it back to Ruger, fully expecting and quite willing to pay to have it reblued. Ruger reblued it at no charge. Moreover they replaced the stock with a new 'African' stock with the black foretip and crossbolt. Still no charge. They also paid for the return shipping. The rifle is now so nice I'm thinking of keeping it for myself and getting my future SIL a .30-06 as was originally planned.
In short, I've been very pleased with Ruger service. They have gone above and beyond what I expected in every case.
Ruger service was good to me also. In the 80's I sent a few ratty 3 screw and new model Supers in for refinish. The charge was dirt cheap and they came back as new guns. I was real pleased.
They've sold a lot of rifles. A lot. That many built of anything and it's inevitable there'll be screwups. Hope you don't ever have a problem like this one.
Dumbss has nothing to tell. As full of sh*t as the other two wimps.
You aren't a Mormon from Utah. You are a MORON from Utah.
Now, like I told you before, varmint, post the Ruger work order or bugger off.
In Utah and not a Mormon, but I know quite a few.
Aren't you bein' the clever one though hillybear. Like you'd know if'n you weren't so dumb.......the work order is 2000 miles away. If I had it, I wouldn't post it for @ssholes who yell and demand the same thing over and over. You guys are stupid.
In a week or so, I hope to have a great report from Ruger on a replacement gun...we will see. Since I have a stock, all my friend needs is a barrel'd action. Their offer so far is to sell my friend a Blued gun to replace the Stainless for $500, which is unbelievable piss poor customer service.
Lesson to be learned: don't take Ruger rifles apart.
Coyote Hunter, your experience on #5 is outstanding. Kinda weird that you got that level of Customer Service and my friend had just the exact opposite. Makes one think that unscrewing the barrel on a Ruger is something that really pisses them off, wonder why?
Dumbss has nothing to tell. As full of sh*t as the other two wimps.
You aren't a Mormon from Utah. You are a MORON from Utah.
Now, like I told you before, varmint, post the Ruger work order or bugger off.
In Utah and not a Mormon, but I know quite a few.
Aren't you bein' the clever one though hillybear. Like you'd know if'n you weren't so dumb.......the work order is 2000 miles away. If I had it, I wouldn't post it for @ssholes who yell and demand the same thing over and over. You guys are stupid.
Well, if you are so far removed geographically from the work order why do you keep mewling about it and insisting that Ruger is the culprit?
In a week or so, I hope to have a great report from Ruger on a replacement gun...we will see. Since I have a stock, all my friend needs is a barrel'd action. Their offer so far is to sell my friend a Blued gun to replace the Stainless for $500, which is unbelievable piss poor customer service.
Lesson to be learned: don't take Ruger rifles apart.
Coyote Hunter, your experience on #5 is outstanding. Kinda weird that you got that level of Customer Service and my friend had just the exact opposite. Makes one think that unscrewing the barrel on a Ruger is something that really pisses them off, wonder why?
Sorry, I'm not buying the claim that Ruger screwed up the threads and tried to fix the problem with epoxy, or whatever the claim is.
In manufacturing there is a concept of 'wastage' which includes items that are damaged beyond repair and can't be made to meet specs. While attempts are made to keep the �wastage� low, it is generally accepted that not every part will be acceptable. Mangled screw threads would qualify the parts as such scrap. Ruger�s cost to manufacture the receivers and barrels is relatively low and half-ass attempts to salvage the parts in the manner described would be unattractively expensive in terms of time and resources � never mind that any Ruger (or other reputable arms manufacturer) employee caught doing so would likely face termination. The risk to the company reputation and potential liability would far outweigh and potential savings of such an effort.
Moosemike, it will all be very clear in the end, but there is no way to be absolutely sure what happened when the gun was put together. Fact is, stainless on stainless can produce severe gauling, that alone can be the culprit for the threads stripping out. As I said earlier, Browning learned the same lesson in the late 80's on their stainless guns, Colt and others have learned the same lesson on Stainless 45's were the Rockwell Hardness was very close between the Slide and the Frame.
With all the piss'en matches going on, it is hard for most readers to follow what actually happened to this rifle. The lesson that I would have for all readers, is to simply not take their Rugers apart. When the barrel is worn out, send them back to Ruger where you might have some recourse if the threads strip out.
I have worked in Production, and management keeps close watch on Scrap, and there is a lot of internal politics in the Production Dept on keeping down scrap. It is not just an accepted thing that there is so much scrap and bonus money is awarded for keeping scrap $ down because it does take money off the bottom line. There is not a QC guy standing over the shoulders of every employee in the Production Dept of Ruger.
Moosemike, what doesn't add up about this entire thread is that Ruger has already tried on many attempts to weasel out of replacing the gun. When you finally get to read the work order that Ruger sent back with the gun, you are really going to be pissed of at Ruger. I will not post the work order until I have a final ruling from Ruger on this gun. If they replace the gun, then all will be considered fine and dandy, and I will not post the work order.
Ruger and other manufacturers are subject to the quality of the steel that they get from a manufacturer. Also, they also probably sub out the casting of the Ruger actions. As they mix the batches of Stainless steel, the Rockwell hardness can vary. Ruger and other manufactures have to live with these variances, and until something like this gun comes along, they don't even know that they have a problem. I do believe that this is the culprit in this rifle becoming scrap...gauling of stainless on stainless.
Some years ago, I had a custom barrel wear out very quickly. I had the steel Rockwell tested for hardness and it came out to 19, where 23-24 is normal. The maker replaced that "soft" barrel and thanked me for the information. They were subject to a soft lot of steel from the steel mill.
More crap. Can't take this dumb chickensh*t seriously.
Quit whining and get the work order posted, Ackbitch. [/quote]Little chickensh*t getting even stupider now.[/quote]Quit crying and post the work order, wuss.
MagMarc, I think that your statement dead nuts true.
Winchester and Remington are great platforms for custom guns, threads are not known to gaul and strip in these two brands of actions.
I had the threads strip on the first model Browning A bolt stainess when the gunsmith tried to remove the barrel. As he started to turn the barrel off the action, he heard a crack that indicated a chunk of thread had broken free, and he was able to tighen the barrel back on the action. The gunsmith advise me immediately what had happened. I sent the gun to Browning and they sent me a brand new Stainless stalker within 2 weeks of receipt of the gun.
When the gunsmith tried to remove the factory barrel, he voided the factory warranty on the gun. Browning got a full letter from me detailing the issue of the Rockwell hardness being too close between the action and the barrel, which caused the gualing and stripping of a thread. Browning was fully aware of this issue, and they were just too happy to replace the gun. This is a great example of really great customer service. I have had Browning A Bolts in various calibers since the late 80's, but I no longer take them apart either.
I have worked in Production, and management keeps close watch on Scrap, and there is a lot of internal politics in the Production Dept on keeping down scrap. It is not just an accepted thing that there is so much scrap and bonus money is awarded for keeping scrap $ down because it does take money off the bottom line. There is not a QC guy standing over the shoulders of every employee in the Production Dept of Ruger.
Moosemike, what doesn't add up about this entire thread is that Ruger has already tried on many attempts to weasel out of replacing the gun. When you finally get to read the work order that Ruger sent back with the gun, you are really going to be pissed of at Ruger. I will not post the work order until I have a final ruling from Ruger on this gun. If they replace the gun, then all will be considered fine and dandy, and I will not post the work order.
Ackgirl claims the work order is 2000 miles away. If you have it why not post it?
No one here knows what the scrap policy is at Ruger or anywhere else they haven't worked.
Ruger service was good to me also. In the 80's I sent a few ratty 3 screw and new model Supers in for refinish. The charge was dirt cheap and they came back as new guns. I was real pleased.
They've sold a lot of rifles. A lot. That many built of anything and it's inevitable there'll be screwups. Hope you don't ever have a problem like this one.
Dumbss has nothing to tell. As full of sh*t as the other two wimps.
You aren't a Mormon from Utah. You are a MORON from Utah.
Now, like I told you before, varmint, post the Ruger work order or bugger off.
In Utah and not a Mormon, but I know quite a few.
Aren't you bein' the clever one though hillybear. Like you'd know if'n you weren't so dumb.......the work order is 2000 miles away. If I had it, I wouldn't post it for @ssholes who yell and demand the same thing over and over. You guys are stupid.
In a week or so, I hope to have a great report from Ruger on a replacement gun...we will see. Since I have a stock, all my friend needs is a barrel'd action. Their offer so far is to sell my friend a Blued gun to replace the Stainless for $500, which is unbelievable piss poor customer service.
Lesson to be learned: don't take Ruger rifles apart.
Coyote Hunter, your experience on #5 is outstanding. Kinda weird that you got that level of Customer Service and my friend had just the exact opposite. Makes one think that unscrewing the barrel on a Ruger is something that really pisses them off, wonder why?
This whole thread really seems suspect to me. Something doesn't add up.
It adds up to me: keith is a liar and Ackbitch is trying to defend his "friend" and neither one can produce any alleged work order. I've had more productive bowel movements than their fairy tale.
Moosemike, it will all be very clear in the end, but there is no way to be absolutely sure what happened when the gun was put together. Fact is, stainless on stainless can produce severe gauling, that alone can be the culprit for the threads stripping out. As I said earlier, Browning learned the same lesson in the late 80's on their stainless guns, Colt and others have learned the same lesson on Stainless 45's were the Rockwell Hardness was very close between the Slide and the Frame.
With all the piss'en matches going on, it is hard for most readers to follow what actually happened to this rifle. The lesson that I would have for all readers, is to simply not take their Rugers apart. When the barrel is worn out, send them back to Ruger where you might have some recourse if the threads strip out.
I have worked in Production, and management keeps close watch on Scrap, and there is a lot of internal politics in the Production Dept on keeping down scrap. It is not just an accepted thing that there is so much scrap and bonus money is awarded for keeping scrap $ down because it does take money off the bottom line. There is not a QC guy standing over the shoulders of every employee in the Production Dept of Ruger.
Moosemike, what doesn't add up about this entire thread is that Ruger has already tried on many attempts to weasel out of replacing the gun. When you finally get to read the work order that Ruger sent back with the gun, you are really going to be pissed of at Ruger. I will not post the work order until I have a final ruling from Ruger on this gun. If they replace the gun, then all will be considered fine and dandy, and I will not post the work order.
Ruger and other manufacturers are subject to the quality of the steel that they get from a manufacturer. Also, they also probably sub out the casting of the Ruger actions. As they mix the batches of Stainless steel, the Rockwell hardness can vary. Ruger and other manufactures have to live with these variances, and until something like this gun comes along, they don't even know that they have a problem. I do believe that this is the culprit in this rifle becoming scrap...gauling of stainless on stainless.
Some years ago, I had a custom barrel wear out very quickly. I had the steel Rockwell tested for hardness and it came out to 19, where 23-24 is normal. The maker replaced that "soft" barrel and thanked me for the information. They were subject to a soft lot of steel from the steel mill.
Moosemike, it will all be very clear in the end, but there is no way to be absolutely sure what happened when the gun was put together. Fact is, stainless on stainless can produce severe gauling, that alone can be the culprit for the threads stripping out. As I said earlier, Browning learned the same lesson in the late 80's on their stainless guns, Colt and others have learned the same lesson on Stainless 45's were the Rockwell Hardness was very close between the Slide and the Frame.
With all the piss'en matches going on, it is hard for most readers to follow what actually happened to this rifle. The lesson that I would have for all readers, is to simply not take their Rugers apart. When the barrel is worn out, send them back to Ruger where you might have some recourse if the threads strip out.
I have worked in Production, and management keeps close watch on Scrap, and there is a lot of internal politics in the Production Dept on keeping down scrap. It is not just an accepted thing that there is so much scrap and bonus money is awarded for keeping scrap $ down because it does take money off the bottom line. There is not a QC guy standing over the shoulders of every employee in the Production Dept of Ruger.
Moosemike, what doesn't add up about this entire thread is that Ruger has already tried on many attempts to weasel out of replacing the gun. When you finally get to read the work order that Ruger sent back with the gun, you are really going to be pissed of at Ruger. I will not post the work order until I have a final ruling from Ruger on this gun. If they replace the gun, then all will be considered fine and dandy, and I will not post the work order.
Ruger and other manufacturers are subject to the quality of the steel that they get from a manufacturer. Also, they also probably sub out the casting of the Ruger actions. As they mix the batches of Stainless steel, the Rockwell hardness can vary. Ruger and other manufactures have to live with these variances, and until something like this gun comes along, they don't even know that they have a problem. I do believe that this is the culprit in this rifle becoming scrap...gauling of stainless on stainless.
Some years ago, I had a custom barrel wear out very quickly. I had the steel Rockwell tested for hardness and it came out to 19, where 23-24 is normal. The maker replaced that "soft" barrel and thanked me for the information. They were subject to a soft lot of steel from the steel mill.
Well you are going to need to show the work order at some point whether they give you satisfaction or not. There are a bunch of us here that are skeptical that Ruger would pull off a stunt like this and you need to prove your allegations.
In a week or so, I hope to have a great report from Ruger on a replacement gun...we will see. Since I have a stock, all my friend needs is a barrel'd action. Their offer so far is to sell my friend a Blued gun to replace the Stainless for $500, which is unbelievable piss poor customer service.
Lesson to be learned: don't take Ruger rifles apart.
Coyote Hunter, your experience on #5 is outstanding. Kinda weird that you got that level of Customer Service and my friend had just the exact opposite. Makes one think that unscrewing the barrel on a Ruger is something that really pisses them off, wonder why?
Sorry, I'm not buying the claim that Ruger screwed up the threads and tried to fix the problem with epoxy, or whatever the claim is.
In manufacturing there is a concept of 'wastage' which includes items that are damaged beyond repair and can't be made to meet specs. While attempts are made to keep the �wastage� low, it is generally accepted that not every part will be acceptable. Mangled screw threads would qualify the parts as such scrap. Ruger�s cost to manufacture the receivers and barrels is relatively low and half-ass attempts to salvage the parts in the manner described would be unattractively expensive in terms of time and resources � never mind that any Ruger (or other reputable arms manufacturer) employee caught doing so would likely face termination. The risk to the company reputation and potential liability would far outweigh and potential savings of such an effort.
Moosemike, you will really be shocked when I do post the work order. It is not the typical great service that we have been used to over the years, but just the opposite.
I am not going to post it until I get the final results from Ruger. Not to worry, the work order that that was returned with the gun parts is a great example how customer service in a company has completely gone to hell, when you read it, you will agree! I give Ruger the benefit of the doubt that somehow this is one that slipped through the cracks from a new employee, bad employee, and/or miscommunication.
Besides, I love to listen to Brick bitch and moan, he's better than watching cartoons!
Remember sports fans, don't take Ruger's apart, or you MAY be SORRY!
For the folks that have jumped in on this 10,000 post thread now, here is a quick run down on what happened:
1. my friend buys a laminated, STAINLESS, Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 6.5 Creedmore, it has the Varmint stock on it
2. He tries to remove the stock to hone and adjust the trigger, but the front guard screw will not come out
3. He drills out the front guard screw and removes the front guard screw with an eezy out, there is brown epoxy in the screw hole.
4. He works up loads, and within 100 rounds determines that the gun needs bedding and he also wants to have a muzzle break installed, so off to the gunsmith we go.
5. Gunsmith goes to remove the barrel, and the threads strip on the action and barrel. Whether there was epoxy on the threads for this step, I think does not matter. Remington puts epoxy on most of their threads, and I have been removing Remington barrels from the actions since the mid 80's.
6. Gunsmith packs up the entire gun and mails it to Ruger. Ruger sends the gun back, saying that the warranty is void but they would sell him a BLUED gun(NOT STAINLESS), not of 6.5 CRED, for $500. Gunsmith informs my friend of the bad news. My friend calls Ruger, gets the same story. This is hard to imagine!!! WTF happened to Ruger?
7. I contact Bob Davis who is a big wheel in customer service, and we are waiting till after the Holidays to see if Bob can grease the wheels of customer service and get my friend a new barrel'd action. Bob is a really nice guy to deal with no matter what the outcome.
8. We are all enjoying the many pages of entertainment from Brick who is going to raise Hell at ANY outcome. Let'r buck Brick!
So in other words no work order will be posted................. not surprised. Gunsmith has the work order no Keith has the work order. Ruger uses a machine to install barrels no Ruger installs barrels by hand. Ruger is at fault no Ruger may be at fault.
Moosemike, you will really be shocked when I do post the work order. It is not the typical great service that we have been used to over the years, but just the opposite.
I am not going to post it until I get the final results from Ruger. Not to worry, the work order that that was returned with the gun parts is a great example how customer service in a company has completely gone to hell, when you read it, you will agree! I give Ruger the benefit of the doubt that somehow this is one that slipped through the cracks from a new employee, bad employee, and/or miscommunication.
Besides, I love to listen to Brick bitch and moan, he's better than watching cartoons!
Remember sports fans, don't take Ruger's apart, or you MAY be SORRY!
For the folks that have jumped in on this 10,000 post thread now, here is a quick run down on what happened:
1. my friend buys a laminated, STAINLESS, Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 6.5 Creedmore, it has the Varmint stock on it
2. He tries to remove the stock to hone and adjust the trigger, but the front guard screw will not come out
3. He drills out the front guard screw and removes the front guard screw with an eezy out, there is brown epoxy in the screw hole.
4. He works up loads, and within 100 rounds determines that the gun needs bedding and he also wants to have a muzzle break installed, so off to the gunsmith we go.
5. Gunsmith goes to remove the barrel, and the threads strip on the action and barrel. Whether there was epoxy on the threads for this step, I think does not matter. Remington puts epoxy on most of their threads, and I have been removing Remington barrels from the actions since the mid 80's.
6. Gunsmith packs up the entire gun and mails it to Ruger. Ruger sends the gun back, saying that the warranty is void but they would sell him a BLUED gun(NOT STAINLESS), not of 6.5 CRED, for $500. Gunsmith informs my friend of the bad news. My friend calls Ruger, gets the same story. This is hard to imagine!!! WTF happened to Ruger?
7. I contact Bob Davis who is a big wheel in customer service, and we are waiting till after the Holidays to see if Bob can grease the wheels of customer service and get my friend a new barrel'd action. Bob is a really nice guy to deal with no matter what the outcome.
8. We are all enjoying the many pages of entertainment from Brick who is going to raise Hell at ANY outcome. Let'r buck Brick!
I really hope to see the proof. I'm a Ruger guy and while that isn't likely to change, it's also good to know what to watch for.
I had a "specialist" remove the motor from the new car I purchased. Just because. Anyway, when he removed it some stuff broke. It kinda looked like there might, or might not, have been some "epoxy" on the threads. Those details are unimportant.
Moosemike, you will really be shocked when I do post the work order. It is not the typical great service that we have been used to over the years, but just the opposite.
I am not going to post it until I get the final results from Ruger. Not to worry, the work order that that was returned with the gun parts is a great example how customer service in a company has completely gone to hell, when you read it, you will agree! I give Ruger the benefit of the doubt that somehow this is one that slipped through the cracks from a new employee, bad employee, and/or miscommunication.
Besides, I love to listen to Brick bitch and moan, he's better than watching cartoons!
Remember sports fans, don't take Ruger's apart, or you MAY be SORRY!
For the folks that have jumped in on this 10,000 post thread now, here is a quick run down on what happened:
1. my friend buys a laminated, STAINLESS, Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 6.5 Creedmore, it has the Varmint stock on it
2. He tries to remove the stock to hone and adjust the trigger, but the front guard screw will not come out
3. He drills out the front guard screw and removes the front guard screw with an eezy out, there is brown epoxy in the screw hole.
4. He works up loads, and within 100 rounds determines that the gun needs bedding and he also wants to have a muzzle break installed, so off to the gunsmith we go.
5. Gunsmith goes to remove the barrel, and the threads strip on the action and barrel. Whether there was epoxy on the threads for this step, I think does not matter. Remington puts epoxy on most of their threads, and I have been removing Remington barrels from the actions since the mid 80's.
6. Gunsmith packs up the entire gun and mails it to Ruger. Ruger sends the gun back, saying that the warranty is void but they would sell him a BLUED gun(NOT STAINLESS), not of 6.5 CRED, for $500. Gunsmith informs my friend of the bad news. My friend calls Ruger, gets the same story. This is hard to imagine!!! WTF happened to Ruger?
7. I contact Bob Davis who is a big wheel in customer service, and we are waiting till after the Holidays to see if Bob can grease the wheels of customer service and get my friend a new barrel'd action. Bob is a really nice guy to deal with no matter what the outcome.
8. We are all enjoying the many pages of entertainment from Brick who is going to raise Hell at ANY outcome. Let'r buck Brick!
Moose, your comment, " There are a bunch of us here that are skeptical that Ruger would pull off a stunt like this and you need to prove your allegations". I am first in line skeptical that Ruger would pull a stunt like this, that is why I am so upset. This is a piss poor way to treat long time customers. The world is changing.
Moose, like I said, when you see the work order, you are really going to be pissed. I want to give Ruger a last chance, I think that it is only fair.
Many, many pages ago, I sent Brick a PM asking him for his email address so I could forward him a copy of the Work Order, then he put me on his "Ignore" list so I could not respond. He needs to work through some things Rais'en Hell, that's ok with me.
Moose, your comment, " There are a bunch of us here that are skeptical that Ruger would pull off a stunt like this and you need to prove your allegations". I am first in line skeptical that Ruger would pull a stunt like this, that is why I am so upset. This is a piss poor way to treat long time customers. The world is changing.
Moose, like I said, when you see the work order, you are really going to be pissed. I want to give Ruger a last chance, I think that it is only fair.
Many, many pages ago, I sent Brick a PM asking him for his email address so I could forward him a copy of the Work Order, then he put me on his "Ignore" list so I could not respond. He needs to work through some things Rais'en Hell, that's ok with me.
But when that offer was made you didn't know where the work order was, only pics.
Originally Posted by keith
Bricktop, here is my response to you in a PM:
If you send me your email address, I will send you some macro pics of the barrel and receiver that are screwed up on this new Ruger 77. I don't know if my neighbor has the work order or not.
Doubletalk and damn lies. For a guy who edits his crap all the time you ain't very good at it.
We can stick a fork in this one. Keith is never going to offer a full explanation nor any sort of official correspondence from Ruger that would in any way support his fairy tale. The gunsmith in question has been contacted and asked to comment on this and wants no part of keith or any associated scum like Ackbitch. Draw your own conclusions from that.
I have dealt with Ruger's customer service enough over the past 30 years to have a good idea of what their standard repair protocol is and many others who've chosen to comment would also agree with those experiences.
We'll have to be satisfied that keith has been outed as a scumbag pathological liar and Ackbitch is the same class of individual.
I had a "specialist" remove the motor from the new car I purchased. Just because. Anyway, when he removed it some stuff broke. It kinda looked like there might, or might not, have been some "epoxy" on the threads. Those details are unimportant.
Here is the car, I'd like a new one.
Thanks,
Keith's Buddy
That's funny...and kind of what I've been thinking about the scenario all through this entertainment.
No double talk on my part, sequence of events will always stay the same:
here is a quick run down on what happened:
1. my friend buys a laminated, STAINLESS, Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 6.5 Creedmore, it has the Varmint stock on it
2. He tries to remove the stock to hone and adjust the trigger, but the front guard screw will not come out
3. He drills out the front guard screw and removes the front guard screw with an eezy out, there is brown epoxy in the screw hole.
4. He works up loads, and within 100 rounds determines that the gun needs bedding and he also wants to have a muzzle break installed, so off to the gunsmith we go.
5. Gunsmith goes to remove the barrel, and the threads strip on the action and barrel. Whether there was epoxy on the threads for this step, I think does not matter. Remington puts epoxy on most of their threads, and I have been removing Remington barrels from the actions since the mid 80's.
6. Gunsmith packs up the entire gun and mails it to Ruger. Ruger sends the gun back, saying that the warranty is void but they would sell him a BLUED gun(NOT STAINLESS), not of 6.5 CRED, for $500. Gunsmith informs my friend of the bad news. My friend calls Ruger, gets the same story. This is hard to imagine!!! WTF happened to Ruger?
7. I contact Bob Davis who is a big wheel in customer service, and we are waiting till after the Holidays to see if Bob can grease the wheels of customer service and get my friend a new barrel'd action. Bob is a really nice guy to deal with no matter what the outcome.
I've seen the work order. Ruger does take responsibility for the problem. It says Ruger offered to replace rifle in question free of charge but that offer was denied. Keith tells me there were strings attached by Ruger and the repacement rifle was not "free of charge".
I've seen the work order. Ruger does take responsibility for the problem. It says Ruger offered to replace rifle in question free of charge but that offer was denied.
Which is believable.
Originally Posted by moosemike
Keith tells me there were strings attached by Ruger and the repacement rifle was not "free of charge".
Which is probably not true just like keith's other bullshit claims.
As I stated previously, keith will never offer a full explanation of this. There are going to be pieces to the puzzle left out that don't paint him or his "elderly friend" in a particularly flattering light.
Marc, the offer that Ruger made was to sell him a blued gun, not in the caliber of 6.5 Creedmore for $500. The 6.5 Creedmore will not be made again for a few years according to Ruger. My friend is willing to accept any new stainless barrel'd short action in calibers from 243 Winchester to 308 that will fit in the original stock, and he should not be charged $500!
Marc, the offer that Ruger made was to sell him a blued gun, not in the caliber of 6.5 Creedmore for $500. The 6.5 Creedmore will not be made again for a few years according to Ruger. My friend is willing to accept any new stainless barrel'd short action in calibers from 243 Winchester to 308 that will fit in the original stock, and he should not be charged $500!
And this is all standard protocol from Ruger when you f*ck up your gun all by yourself. They're not going to take responsibility for someone else's actions -- like yours -- but they'll at least cut you a break towards a new gun. THAT'S CALLED BEING FAIR WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE. This is the real reason your lying ass won't post that work order.
Marc, the offer that Ruger made was to sell him a blued gun, not in the caliber of 6.5 Creedmore for $500. The 6.5 Creedmore will not be made again for a few years according to Ruger.
Now, why would Ruger not make rifles in one of the more popular new cartridges for a "few years?"
Is this like Ruger using special processing and tooling to fit barrels?
If the work order states free replacement where did $500 come from? Just post the work order.
Keith told me the free replacement offer was withdrawn by Ruger for whatever reason. The work order said it was declined. The $500 rifle offer was not on the work order. He said that was a verbal offer only.
Why was an easy out able to unlock the threads from the action and a screw driver was not? Just curious as I know I have broken off more than one easy out in my life time when something was really stuck. It's one thing when the screw slot has been buggered up and the driver can't back out the screw. But if the screw head was in good shape then it should have backed out but if the epoxy was so bad it couldn't then its lucky the easy out worked.
If the work order states free replacement where did $500 come from? Just post the work order.
This is why we are so pissed off. First sentence is free replacement. Second sentence saying they are returning the gun and that it is not safe to have repaired. Third sentence is to contact them concerning their offer. Upon calling, the offer is a blued gun, not of 6.5 Creedmore for $500. Sounds like some one went on break and smoked a crack pipe!
No one loves Ruger more than I do, which is why I am so upset at a change in what was otherwise stellar customer service. Ruger is way behind in production, running 24/7. There is such a demand for Ruger products, I would assume that they are concentrating on their best sellers(guess on my part).
As I have said before, the best Ruger rifles that have EVER been made have been made in the last couple FEW years. What is not to love, their controlled round feed, three position safety, steel floor plate and trigger guard, great magazine follower. Their Stainless barrels in particular are simply fantastic in how they shoot and clean up with nary a copper fouling hog in our bunch...we are darn picky!
Those days of having a Ruger barrel with tight and loose spots in it are gone, they are smooth as silk from back to end with tight fitting patches on a punch type of jag. Very few strokes with a bronze bristle brush are required to get the bore down to bare metal.
I would love to see Ruger offer up for sale 5000 actions(like Remington does) on Brownell's for custom guns, they should be in Blued Chrome moly to eliminate the issue of Stainless on Stainless gauling.
Keith, what I took away from the work order was that the rifle was being returned because the free replacement rifle offer was declined. They then made it clear they could still be contacted about that offer. They apparently were, and thats when you said the offer was changed. Correct?
Mike, the work order is very confusing. Who would refuse a free replacement? My friend would take any Stainless barrel'd action in any caliber that would fit in the original stock that would be considered a deer caliber...he is not picky...243-308!!
The work order then states to contact them concerning their offer...
Their offer was the $500 for a blued action, not of 6.5 creedmore in trade for the "unsafe" barreled action/gun.
It really sounds like someone over rode the Customer service person's decision to replace the gun. We are hoping that it is because Ruger is not going to be making the 6.5 Creedmore for a while...beggers can not be choosers....any replacement caliber that will kill a deer will be fine and dandy...
Ruger has been one darn fine company in company service, hope that bean counters have not taken over at a time of record profits!
Mike, the work order is very confusing. Who would refuse a free replacement? My friend would take any Stainless barrel'd action in any caliber that would fit in the original stock that would be considered a deer caliber...he is not picky...243-308!!
The work order then states to contact them concerning their offer...
Their offer was the $500 for a blued action, not of 6.5 creedmore in trade for the "unsafe" barreled action/gun.
It really sounds like someone over rode the Customer service person's decision to replace the gun. We are hoping that it is because Ruger is not going to be making the 6.5 Creedmore for a while...beggers can not be choosers....any replacement caliber that will kill a deer will be fine and dandy...
Ruger has been one darn fine company in company service, hope that bean counters have not taken over at a time of record profits!
As suspected, you're leaving out significant parts of the story, ass face.
If the work order states free replacement where did $500 come from? Just post the work order.
Keith told me the free replacement offer was withdrawn by Ruger for whatever reason. The work order said it was declined. The $500 rifle offer was not on the work order. He said that was a verbal offer only.
Brick, you had a chance to get a copy of the work order through an email, you declined and put me on the ignore list.
You lying sack-of-sh*t:
Originally Posted by keith
Elderly friend bought a laminated SS model in 6.5 Creedmore. He sent the rifle to the gunsmith to have him put on a muzzle break.
Threads stripped when the gunsmith tried to remove the barrel. Reason that threads stripped...barrel was started into the action crooked.
The entire package was sent back to Ruger, they said they would not warranty the gun due to the fact that the gunsmith removed the barrel...tough titty...$700 shot to Hell! They did offer him the same rifle in a blued version for $500....mitty WHITE of them don't you think???
I say, thank your lucky stars if you have a good Ruger, from now on, buy any other another brand on the market! An obviously absolutely true story, because as we all know, you can't post anything on the internet that's not true.
Tell me, Little Man, can you post a copy of the work order and receipt that Ruger provides on each and every firearm they service? Or are we to take you at your obviously absolutely true word?
If you send me your email address, I will send you some macro pics of the barrel and receiver that are screwed up on this new Ruger 77. I don't know if my neighbor has the work order or not.
The incident happened exactly as I stated. The gunsmith that took the Ruger apart is Ray Bowman of Precisioin Rifle and tool in Mebane, NC Phone 336-214-5381
I am as shocked as you are that Ruger would not warranty the rifle at all. After checking with Greg Tannel of Gre-Tan Rifles, this happens frequently.
Keith
You offered to send pictures, which have been posted here, but nothing more. You will constantly change your stories and leave out details no matter what. Verbal offer from Ruger? Another lie.
My story stays the same, I send you a PM stating that if you were to send me your email, that I would send you a copy of the Ruger work order, you put me on the Ignore list so I could not send you another PM.
I did the same for moosemike, he sent me his email, he got a copy of the Work Order.
Brick, you are going to raise hell no matter what the outcome. If Jesus was 50' in front of you Healing a long line of sick and raising the Dead, you would raise Hell because a SOB did not deserve to be raised from the Dead!
Brick, just keep running your mouth, your anger is bigger than your brain, and you have control of neither!
My story stays the same, I send you a PM stating that if you were to send me your email, that I would send you a copy of the Ruger work order, you put me on the Ignore list so I could not send you another PM.
I did the same for moosemike, he sent me his email, he got a copy of the Work Order.
Brick, you are going to raise hell no matter what the outcome. If Jesus was 50' in front of you Healing a long line of sick and raising the Dead, you would raise Hell because a SOB did not deserve to be raised from the Dead!
Brick, just keep running your mouth, your anger is bigger than your brain, and you have control of neither!
....Ruger is not going to be making the 6.5 Creedmore for a while...beggers can not be choosers....any replacement caliber that will kill a deer will be fine and dandy...
Ruger currently lists the 6.5 Creedmoor as being available in their Hawkeye Predator and Hawkeye Varmint Target rifles and in the very new Ruger American Predator which I realize won't fit in the stock you have available. Still....... Just sayin'.... etc. ........
I know of two locations that have new 6.5 Creemoor rifles in the Hawkeye version that they have received in the past two weeks.
Maybe I'm missing something, however. Is the 6.5 Creedmoor different from the 6.5 Creedmore? I can't find any reference for the Creedmore on Ruger's web site.
When we talked to Ruger, they had none available and said that it would be some years before they made another run...If you can figure it out, I would like to know.
....Ruger is not going to be making the 6.5 Creedmore for a while...beggers can not be choosers....any replacement caliber that will kill a deer will be fine and dandy...
Ruger currently lists the 6.5 Creedmoor as being available in their Hawkeye Predator and Hawkeye Varmint Target rifles and in the very new Ruger American Predator which I realize won't fit in the stock you have available. Still....... Just sayin'.... etc. ........
I know of two locations that have new 6.5 Creemoor rifles in the Hawkeye version that they have received in the past two weeks.
Maybe I'm missing something, however. Is the 6.5 Creedmoor different from the 6.5 Creedmore? I can't find any reference for the Creedmore on Ruger's web site.
When we talked to Ruger, they had none available and said that it would be some years before they made another run...If you can figure it out, I would like to know.
You must not have talked to the right person. Ruger currently lists 3 6.5 Creedmoor rifles on their web site:
Ruger American Rifle� Predator 6.5 Creedmoor Bolt-Action Rifle
....Ruger is not going to be making the 6.5 Creedmore for a while...beggers can not be choosers....any replacement caliber that will kill a deer will be fine and dandy...
Ruger currently lists the 6.5 Creedmoor as being available in their Hawkeye Predator and Hawkeye Varmint Target rifles and in the very new Ruger American Predator which I realize won't fit in the stock you have available. Still....... Just sayin'.... etc. ........
I know of two locations that have new 6.5 Creemoor rifles in the Hawkeye version that they have received in the past two weeks.
Maybe I'm missing something, however. Is the 6.5 Creedmoor different from the 6.5 Creedmore? I can't find any reference for the Creedmore on Ruger's web site.
Creedmoor is the correct spelling.
Yeah. I knew that. Just A bunch of contradictions here so I thought I'd mention that one.
Interesting. No admission that Ruger was at fault, no mention of $500. Only "You have declined to accept our offer to replace the above referenced firearm at no charge"..............
No info there, other than documentation on what they sent back, and why.
It's a work order, dumbass. As evidenced in the earlier example, it will also state what work, if any, was performed. The current example has beaucoup information. Please pull your head out of your ass when making future replies. Thanks.
Uh huh. OT stating (basically) it's unsafe to fire, they made a replacement offer (apparently declined), and labeled the thing "PACKING SLIP", I guess I missed everything else about it. Apparently this crazy phone browser doesn't allow me to see the inspection findings or diagnosis that match the original conundrum here.
Uh huh. OT stating (basically) it's unsafe to fire, they made a replacement offer (apparently declined), and labeled the thing "PACKING SLIP", I guess I missed everything else about it. Apparently this crazy phone browser doesn't allow me to see the inspection findings or diagnosis that match the original conundrum here.
I am sorry you're so stupid you're going to get hung up on semantics.
The "document" clearly states that Ruger received a receiver, bolt, and various small parts in a bag, but no stock.
Can you understand things thus far? Or is this moving too fast?
The "document" goes on to state that the mentioned parts are being returned at customer's request because customer declined a no-cost replacement.
Is this simple enough to understand to this point?
The "document" also states that Ruger does not believe the rifle is safe to use in its present state. Can you understand that much or did you expect a diorama of some sort?
Jesus Christ, we're already dealing with lying scum in this thread, now we're enduring your stupidity. Dunce.
....Ruger is not going to be making the 6.5 Creedmore for a while...beggers can not be choosers....any replacement caliber that will kill a deer will be fine and dandy...
Ruger currently lists the 6.5 Creedmoor as being available in their Hawkeye Predator and Hawkeye Varmint Target rifles and in the very new Ruger American Predator which I realize won't fit in the stock you have available. Still....... Just sayin'.... etc. ........
I know of two locations that have new 6.5 Creemoor rifles in the Hawkeye version that they have received in the past two weeks.
Then...........
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
You must not have talked to the right person. Ruger currently lists 3 6.5 Creedmoor rifles on their web site:
Ruger American Rifle� Predator 6.5 Creedmoor Bolt-Action Rifle
yep, they first mention of replacing the rifle at no charge. Then on down they mention that they are willing to "honor their quotation". Now there is some serious double talk.
They also spoke to the gunsmith about the close to $500 on the replacement with a Blued Rifle,not of the 6.5 Creedmoor caliber.
The same Quotation was made to the gunsmith and to the owner, so there is no chance for error.
The Customer Service person told them that she had made the decision to reject a free replacement, then she had sent it to another committee for a secondary disapproval, they denied free replacement also.
My friend did not want to spend another $500 on another rifle in a caliber that he did not want. Quite frankly, he was sick about the whole affair.
I can only guess, and your guess is as good as anyone's, that the listing of the 6.5 Creedmoor's currently available are guns that have been manufactured and distributed to stores and Master distributors...it is only a guess on my part.
So far, my take on the whole affair, is that you should not take a barrel off a Ruger action to:
thread for a muzzle break thread for a silencer recrown the barrel Rebarrel with a custom barrel or for any other reason
Threads stripped on this stainless Ruger Mark II action from simply unscrewing the the barrel. The issue is caused by Gauling with two stainless parts being screwed together with Rockwell Hardness too close together. When Ruger orders materials, they are at the mercy of what ever the steel mill sends to them. Also, the actions are castings, and the mix of the metal can vary from lot to lot. We have not even spoke of how manufacturing tolerances can vary that may allow the barrel to be an extra tight fit in the action, which would make the issue of Stainless on Stainless Rockwell Gauling magnified.
Bob Davis of Ruger's customer service hopefully will help resolve this issue. This was(is) a $750 rifle that is totally ruined by simply unscrewing the barrel by a gunsmith that has 35 years experience.
The service that my friend received is not typical of the fantastic service that Ruger has given MANY of us over the years. We are shocked and dismayed at what has been up to this point stellar customer service by a company that sets very high standards for it's self in terms of taking care of it's customer base.
Ruger's response on the Packing Slip sounds like something you might read from Cheech and Chong. Tell us you are going to give us a free gun, then tell us that you are sending us back a dangerous gun, after we refuse to pay you another $500 to get a gun that shoots(which they left out).
This level of customer service is NOT what Ruger owners expect. In any manufacturing process, mistakes happen, that is part of life. Ruger needs to step up, and I believe that if there is any way that Bob Davis can help, he will. I don't believe that the other customer service person has a clue what they are dealing with nor the issues related to the stainless gun and possible tight tolerances(life is a learning curve for all of us and patience is hard learned).
My prediction is that Ruger will take care of this problem, but I may have to cut through the red tape to get it on the CEO's desk. I hope by bringing this issue front and center, that Ruger may possibly help other Ruger owners that may encounter similar issues.
This is really a [bleep] mess to have to deal with for my friend, and I am sure that many of you may wonder why I am involved in the ordeal. Simple fact, you can screw me and I'll get over it. [bleep] with my best friend and family, and I may just stomp your guts out.
yep, they first mention of replacing the rifle at no charge. Then on down they mention that they are willing to "honor their quotation". Now there is some serious double talk.
Only from you, dirtbag, only from you. You've got five more days to act on their offer for a free replacement, dumbass.
The gunsmith in question has been contacted and asked to comment on this and wants no part of keith or any associated scum like Ackbitch.
No kidding? Interesting, because I've never spoken with the gentleman. I'd like to but never have. You lie about everything and grab at anything to argue about. And before you go claiming I said I'd talked with him, re-read.....I mentioned telephones and said for you to call him yourself. I don't for a second believe that you did. I talk with Keith often but never said I'd talked with the gunsmith. I wouldn't say that because I haven't.
The gunsmith in question has been contacted and asked to comment on this and wants no part of keith or any associated scum like Ackbitch.
No kidding? Interesting, because I've never spoken with the gentleman. I'd like to but never have. You lie about everything and grab at anything to argue about. And before you go claiming I said I'd talked with him, re-read.....I mentioned telephones and said for you to call him yourself. I don't for a second believe that you did. I talk with Keith often but never said I'd talked with the gunsmith. I wouldn't say that because I haven't.
The gunsmith in question has been contacted and asked to comment on this and wants no part of keith or any associated scum like Ackbitch.
No kidding? Interesting, because I've never spoken with the gentleman. I'd like to but never have. You lie about everything and grab at anything to argue about. And before you go claiming I said I'd talked with him, re-read.....I mentioned telephones and said for you to call him yourself. I don't for a second believe that you did. I talk with Keith often but never said I'd talked with the gunsmith. I wouldn't say that because I haven't.
All of us, no matter what our response, are responding in disbelief, that Ruger would make such a bad error in supporting their customers.
So, I don't think that this is a time to attack each other. You have to admire Brick in his attempt to support Ruger, as many of us feel the same way, we just express our feelings differently.
I think that a little latitude is needed here to give Ruger time to respond, and they deserve the time that it takes to work through the issues related to employee education and communication issues that may arise through the various management levels. Remember the weels of management turn slowly. We all love Ruger rifles and pistols...focus on that.
My understanding is that Ruger is in complete control of its steel because they the companies who manufacture it. I'm told they get their barrels fro Green Mountain barrels who Ruger also owns. So they have control over the quality of their steel and alloys. And keith, you say this was a Mark II rifle. I never knew that Ruger made a Mark II in the Creedmoor round but if it is a Mark II then it is at least seven years old and that may explain some of Ruger 's response.
Ruger offered a no cost replacement that was refused. I have no idea what your agenda is but the paperwork makes you look bad.
Marc, the paper works states a free replacement, but the truth is that they want $450 plus postage and insurance for a replacement(their offer, which is not put in writing), and this is simple madness. Think about it, why would anyone choose scrap over a new gun? We know why YOU are so angry over this post, not much of makes any sense to anyone that has ever delt with Ruger customer service!!!!
Ruger offered a no cost replacement that was refused. I have no idea what your agenda is but the paperwork makes you look bad.
Marc, the paper works states a free replacement, but the truth is that they want $450 plus postage and insurance for a replacement(their offer, which is not put in writing), and this is simple madness. Think about it, why would anyone choose scrap over a new gun? We know why YOU are so angry over this post, not much of makes any sense to anyone that has ever delt with Ruger customer service!!!!
Give it up, liar. The work order states free replacement. You've got some kind of bullshit shakedown/hidden agenda.
Nothing about $450 (down from $500) in writing only a free replacement that was refused. You can waive this document all over the place but it only makes you look bad not Ruger.
Nothing about $450 (down from $500) in writing only a free replacement that was refused. You can waive this document all over the place but it only makes you look bad not Ruger.
I'm not angry at all but you are quite mad.
Marc, after reading my PM, would you like the phone # of the customer service person that we dealt with? Then, you can experience the madness for yourself...no cchitttt! Beat your head on the wall kinda dumbphuckatuddidness!
Ruger dropped the ball, all the way around. Give those employees the benefit of the doubt. I have the confidence that Ruger Customer Service will prevail through all the BS that their business and stresses throws at them.
I'm sensing a "good cop/bad cop" routine with keith and Ackman.
When will the truth raise its pointed head? Right now there is some kind of an undefined odor rising with all of the twists and turns being tossed out.
Uh huh. OT stating (basically) it's unsafe to fire, they made a replacement offer (apparently declined), and labeled the thing "PACKING SLIP", I guess I missed everything else about it. Apparently this crazy phone browser doesn't allow me to see the inspection findings or diagnosis that match the original conundrum here.
I am sorry you're so stupid you're going to get hung up on semantics.
The "document" clearly states that Ruger received a receiver, bolt, and various small parts in a bag, but no stock.
Can you understand things thus far? Or is this moving too fast?
The "document" goes on to state that the mentioned parts are being returned at customer's request because customer declined a no-cost replacement.
Is this simple enough to understand to this point?
The "document" also states that Ruger does not believe the rifle is safe to use in its present state. Can you understand that much or did you expect a diorama of some sort?
Jesus Christ, we're already dealing with lying scum in this thread, now we're enduring your stupidity. Dunce.
So, you're off the rails, accusing me of stupidity, when you didn't read/comprehend enough to understand I posted/said essentially the same damn things you're ranting about?
You call it whatever you want, but ruger labeled it plainly, since all they got was a bunch of crap in a bag, and did no 'work'...merely returned it. Pretty sure out opinion of hinkiness involved is actually similar....but maybe our judgement is different.
Uh huh. OT stating (basically) it's unsafe to fire, they made a replacement offer (apparently declined), and labeled the thing "PACKING SLIP", I guess I missed everything else about it. Apparently this crazy phone browser doesn't allow me to see the inspection findings or diagnosis that match the original conundrum here.
I am sorry you're so stupid you're going to get hung up on semantics.
The "document" clearly states that Ruger received a receiver, bolt, and various small parts in a bag, but no stock.
Can you understand things thus far? Or is this moving too fast?
The "document" goes on to state that the mentioned parts are being returned at customer's request because customer declined a no-cost replacement.
Is this simple enough to understand to this point?
The "document" also states that Ruger does not believe the rifle is safe to use in its present state. Can you understand that much or did you expect a diorama of some sort?
Jesus Christ, we're already dealing with lying scum in this thread, now we're enduring your stupidity. Dunce.
So, you're off the rails, accusing me of stupidity, when you didn't read/comprehend enough to understand I posted/said essentially the same damn things you're ranting about?
You call it whatever you want, but ruger labeled it plainly, since all they got was a bunch of crap in a bag, and did no 'work'...merely returned it. Pretty sure out opinion of hinkiness involved is actually similar....but maybe our judgement is different.
Get past the title of the document. Had there been work performed, it would've been on the document posted along with a line indicating test firing and a function test as well as the technician's name.
Whether it's titled "work order" or "packing list," it doesn't matter.
I stand corrected, thanks for the heads up. Main issues are the threads that ruined the action and the barrel during a simple removal by a gunsmith of 35 years experience.
I'm sensing a "good cop/bad cop" routine with keith and Ackman.
When will the truth raise its pointed head? Right now there is some kind of an undefined odor rising with all of the twists and turns being tossed out.
I think I have an idea of what these idiots are doing.
Ruger typically doesn't offer substitutions on currently manufactured items; they're not going to give someone a No. 1 or Red Label for a returned Model 77, nor are they going to exchange a lighter recoiling caliber for a hard kicker, etc. However, when an item is backlogged, the customer is given the option of being wait listed, receiving a similar item in exchange or return of the firearm with any remedy the responsibility of the owner. A refund check or different type of firearm not being offered. This was how they handled the stainless bent-barreled left-handed .223s last year: we could either wait on barrels or accept a CM version of the rifles.
Dumb and Dumber appear to have been trying to enlist a confederacy of dunces to harangue Ruger into doing something else.
[quote=hh4whiskey][quote=Bricktop]Get past the title of the document. Had there been work performed, it would've been on the document posted along with a line indicating test firing and a function test as well as the technician's name.
Whether it's titled "work order" or "packing list," it doesn't matter.
That was the entirety of the point: NOTHING was printed on it about any work, diagnosis, etc. If it's the same document ruger uses for actual work/repairs is irrelevant. They didn't list any. If merely pointing that out is so 'stupid', I'm not alone.
Ruger said that they had no 6.5 ceedmoores in stock in blue or stainless, and they might not be manufactured for years(shocking). They only gave my friend the option of buying a blued gun(not in 6.5 Creedmoore) at their wholesale cost, which would be close to $500 with shipping and insurance.
Since Ruger put bent barrels on the L.Hand 223's, you can see where manufacturing mistakes happen, and these mistakes are missed by a lot of people or are ignored. When Ruger management was made aware of these bent barrels, they fixed the issues. What goes on out on the manufacturing floor is not always monitored by upper management.
The issues of the threads stripping out of my friends action by simply unscrewing the barrel relates to the Quality Control of the two mating parts(Rockwell Hardness), and/or the */- dimensions of the two mating parts. In stainless guns, If the crest of the threads on the barrel, reach the root of the thread in the action, gauling and stipping of the threads are very likely.
My friend should not have been asked to spend $500 on another rifle due to Ruger's Quality control issues. No other options were given my friend.
I'm still curious as to who specifically turned down the original offer to replace the rifle at no charge. It clearly states on the shipping papers that someone did.
Or are you saying that they are lying and never offered this option? You've spun so many different tales about what happened that I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round trying to make sense of any of it.
The packing slip states that there is an offer to replace the offer at no charge. That offer was never made to the gunsmith or to my friend. So, why did a person at Ruger put that statement on the packing slip?
The state that the action is dangerous, so why did they return it?
They remain open to honor their offer for 30 days, which is to sell my friend a gun at wholesale cost(about $500), but the Packing Slip refers to a Free replacement offer that was never made.
One can only speculate what was going on at Ruger to print such double talk, and I suspect that at some point, they were going to offer a free replacement, and the free replacement was annulled.(your guess is a good as anyone's)
BayouRover, my Story has been the same:
No double talk on my part, sequence of events will always stay the same:
here is a quick run down on what happened:
1. my friend buys a laminated, STAINLESS, Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 6.5 Creedmore, it has the Varmint stock on it
2. He tries to remove the stock to hone and adjust the trigger, but the front guard screw will not come out
3. He drills out the front guard screw and removes the front guard screw with an eezy out, there is brown epoxy in the screw hole.
4. He works up loads, and within 100 rounds determines that the gun needs bedding and he also wants to have a muzzle break installed, so off to the gunsmith we go.
5. Gunsmith goes to remove the barrel, and the threads strip on the action and barrel. Whether there was epoxy on the threads for this step, I does not matter. Remington puts epoxy on most of their threads, and I have been removing Remington barrels from the actions since the mid 80's.
6. Gunsmith packs up the entire gun and mails it to Ruger. Ruger sends the gun back, saying that the warranty is void but they would sell him a BLUED gun(NOT STAINLESS), not of 6.5 CRED, for $500. Gunsmith informs my friend of the bad news. My friend calls Ruger, gets the same story. This is hard to imagine!!! WTF happened to Ruger?
7. I contact Bob Davis who is a big wheel in customer service, and we are waiting till after the Holidays to see if Bob can grease the wheels of customer service and get my friend a new barrel'd action. Bob is a really nice guy to deal with no matter what the outcome.
You need to hold their feet to the fire on that free replacement offer. You have it in writing!
That's all they have, an offer for a free replacement that the owner refused. None of this other crap that been claimed. Ruger willing to make good no matter who as fault, owner unwilling to let Ruger do it. Keith doesn't own the gun and really has no standing in the matter but continues to rant on. Fruit Loops.
You need to hold their feet to the fire on that free replacement offer. You have it in writing!
That's all they have, an offer for a free replacement that the owner refused. None of this other crap that been claimed. Ruger willing to make good no matter who as fault, owner unwilling to let Ruger do it. Keith doesn't own the gun and really has no standing in the matter but continues to rant on. Fruit Loops.
Marc, the only thing in this statement that is true is that I don't own the gun. I am taking up for someone that can't take up for themselves.
I'm sensing a "good cop/bad cop" routine with keith and Ackman.
When will the truth raise its pointed head? Right now there is some kind of an undefined odor rising with all of the twists and turns being tossed out.
It's a lot simpler than good cop/bad cop........he's just a much nicer guy than I am. Some real jerks on here and neither of us like them. But his tolerance level is higher than mine and he's more patient.
This whole deal is screwy. Ruger gets the gun, calls the gunsmith and refuses to replace the gun, but they'll sell a blued gun. Gunsmith calls gun owner, gun owner calls Ruger. Ruger tells him the same thing....no replacement, but they'll sell him another different gun at wholesale He turns that down, no way is he gonna buy another gun. The junk gun finally returns to gunsmith and work order says that Ruger will replace the gun but free replacement was turned down. On the phone nobody was saying free replacement, only that he had to buy another gun and that's what was turned down. What's on that order isn't what they were told on the phone. That's why the wait for a final decision when the decision makers get back from vacation. You clear now?
Keith doesn't own the gun and really has no standing in the matter but continues to rant on. Fruit Loops.
You're looking real hard for something to be pimpy about.
Gun's owner is nearly 80yrs old. He and Keith are neighbors/close friends, and also shooting partners........they use a private range complete with shooting house, only the two of them have access. The gun owner is a longtime Ruger guy with a very large number of them. The thing about this new one has him completely depressed, but at his age he has neither the energy nor the desire to do battle with Ruger. Keith does have the energy....his friend needs help with this and he's taking care of it for him.
I'm sensing a "good cop/bad cop" routine with keith and Ackman.
When will the truth raise its pointed head? Right now there is some kind of an undefined odor rising with all of the twists and turns being tossed out.
It's a lot simpler than good cop/bad cop........he's just a much nicer guy than I am. Some real jerks on here and neither of us like them. But his tolerance level is higher than mine and he's more patient.
This whole deal is screwy. Ruger gets the gun, calls the gunsmith and refuses to replace the gun, but they'll sell a blued gun. Gunsmith calls gun owner, gun owner calls Ruger. Ruger tells him the same thing....no replacement, but they'll sell him another different gun at wholesale He turns that down, no way is he gonna buy another gun. The junk gun finally returns to gunsmith and work order says that Ruger will replace the gun but free replacement was turned down. On the phone nobody was saying free replacement, only that he had to buy another gun and that's what was turned down. What's on that order isn't what they were told on the phone. That's why the wait for a final decision when the decision makers get back from vacation. You clear now?
The only thing "screwy" is the ignorant bullshit you two knobs are trying to pull. There isn't any "several years" wait on 6.5mm Creedmoor Rugers. There wasn't any defect from Ruger. And there isn't any $500 replacement. The rifle was damaged due to a wannabe/shoddy "gunsmith." A free replacement was offered. You morons are working some kind of shakedown con. That much is clear.
I'm sensing a "good cop/bad cop" routine with keith and Ackman.
When will the truth raise its pointed head? Right now there is some kind of an undefined odor rising with all of the twists and turns being tossed out.
It's a lot simpler than good cop/bad cop........he's just a much nicer guy than I am. Some real jerks on here and neither of us like them. But his tolerance level is higher than mine and he's more patient.
This whole deal is screwy. Ruger gets the gun, calls the gunsmith and refuses to replace the gun, but they'll sell a blued gun. Gunsmith calls gun owner, gun owner calls Ruger. Ruger tells him the same thing....no replacement, but they'll sell him another different gun at wholesale He turns that down, no way is he gonna buy another gun. The junk gun finally returns to gunsmith and work order says that Ruger will replace the gun but free replacement was turned down. On the phone nobody was saying free replacement, only that he had to buy another gun and that's what was turned down. What's on that order isn't what they were told on the phone. That's why the wait for a final decision when the decision makers get back from vacation. You clear now?
Clear now? Not really.
The work order/packing slip that accompanied the gun and parts back to the smith distinctly says in writing that someone refused Ruger's offer of a free replacement. Who did that? You and your good cop best friend seem to want to ignore that fact in all of the shuffling of cards that has taken place through the cursing of others (on your part) and by incomplete and partial explanations of the real issues that I guess you both expect others to understand.
What's in print on the packing slip says one thing, what you are saying says another, and then come the stories of no Creedmoors for years, and the list goes on.
Frankly it's all very foggy. As for your approach, it hasn't provided very much of anything positive to the thread, except that it shows someone who obviously can't express them self any other way than to curse and chastise others. That's not impressive at all in my eyes, bad cop.
I'm sure you'll soon set me straight in your own special way. If that is your approach, save your time and hang the thoughts in your ear. I'm not interested in dealing with a cyber bully in boxer shorts sitting at his keyboard in a dark basement.
Bayou, the same reason that you are upset, upsets us! The packing slip is sheer madness!
We returned the gun to Ruger for a replacement, don't you think that we would have taken it?
Story on Creedmoores is something that I will take up with Ruger, but that is their story, none available in blue or stainless, according to them. I assume that all have been shipped out to Distributors, your guess is as good as anyone's.
One thing for darn sure, Ruger will give some answers on:
a. packing slip
b. no Creedmoore available
c. warranty issue
If Ruger owners can't screw the barrel off a rifle, they darn sure ought to know it. As I said before, if you screw a barrel off a rifle and the threads strip, there is something wrong with the materials and/or the dimensions of the threads of the barrel tenon & Action...Ruger knows this.
Bricktop, do you actually think that if you repeat your lies often enough that they will become truth?
Not one of your statements is true, just more of your dumbfuckatude. "The only thing "screwy" is the ignorant bullshit you two knobs are trying to pull. There isn't any "several years" wait on 6.5mm Creedmoor Rugers. There wasn't any defect from Ruger. And there isn't any $500 replacement. The rifle was damaged due to a wannabe/shoddy "gunsmith." A free replacement was offered. You morons are working some kind of shakedown con. That much is clear."
I don't think Ruger glued your barrel on. I do believe Ruger offered you a rifle and you refused that remedy. Ruger should now wash their hands of you.
Bricktop, do you actually think that if you repeat your lies often enough that they will become truth?
That seems to be your play. A bullshit claim, long rambling "answers" that don't explain anything, additional fleshing out of details as you get backed into corners, etc.
Lets just assume for a moment that there might be an element of truth to your fairy tale. You offer up the replacement for sale in the buyer's choice of calibers and you take those funds and buy what you want. Dumb sh*t.
Jesus Christ, you can't string together even common sense.
Bayou, the same reason that you are upset, upsets us!
I'm not upset. I'm confused by the moving targets that you throw up, but I'm not upset.
Who refused the replacement rifle as stated on the packing slip? No convolute and lengthy answers please.
A Ruger American Predator is not a Hawekeye, but it is very new to the market, and it is chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. (I think I get the spelling right)
I don't think Ruger glued your barrel on. I do believe Ruger offered you a rifle and you refused that remedy. Ruger should now wash their hands of you.
finis
George, did you even think for one moment what you are saying??? Your thinking is: The gunsmith sent the rifle in for a replacement, You think that Ruger offered us a replacement and we refused the replacement??? To what end? My friend has hundreds of dollars invested in Creedmoore dies and 6.5 bullets, they are paper weights now.
What ever you get from this, just remember that if you ever take a barrel off a Ruger, you can go through the same crap as we have gone through.
Manufacturing tolerances and/or material quality was out of spec on this 6.5 Creedmoore Rifle...this is why the threads stripped. Gauling on stainless is a common problem.
I don't think Ruger glued your barrel on. I do believe Ruger offered you a rifle and you refused that remedy. Ruger should now wash their hands of you.
finis
.....My friend has hundreds of dollars invested in Creedmoore dies and 6.5 bullets, they are paper weights now.
What ever you get from this, just remember that if you ever take a barrel off a Ruger, you can go through the same crap as we have gone through.
Manufacturing tolerances and/or material quality was out of spec on this 6.5 Creedmoore Rifle...this is why the threads stripped. Gauling on stainless is a common problem.
Nothing new there in the way of information other than what you posted above, after several previous attempts, seems to reek of an agenda of some kind from someone who professes to be waiting for your main man at Ruger to bail you out.
Again, the Predator is available in 6.5 if the orphan dies, brass, and bullets are killing someone. And they are totally new to the market.
I don't think Ruger glued your barrel on. I do believe Ruger offered you a rifle and you refused that remedy. Ruger should now wash their hands of you.
finis
You think that Ruger offered us a replacement and we refused the replacement???
Bayou, the same reason that you are upset, upsets us!
I'm not upset. I'm confused by the moving targets that you throw up, but I'm not upset.
Who refused the replacement rifle as stated on the packing slip? No convolute and lengthy answers please.
A Ruger American Predator is not a Hawekeye, but it is very new to the market, and it is chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. (I think I get the spelling right)
Simple answer, packing slip said one thing, verbal offer on the phone was another.
Stores and Distributers may have the Ruger in the Creedmoor, but the Customer service rep said the factory could not offer a replacement in Blue or Stainless in the Creedmoor caliber, other calibers yes for approximately $500 with shipping and handling...at that time, there was no spoken word of a free replacement.
About a week later, we received the box with the rifle in it, with that double talk on the packing slip.
Think I would take that packing slip in hand, call Ruger and ask them to please reconsider.
From all I see, Ruger has gone overboard to satisfy a reasonable person and they are now in the clear.. They owe you nothing.. that's the reason I would kindly ask them to reconsider. I would probably own up to being a DSMF when I refused the initial offer.
George, there were two conversations with Ruger customer service, one with the gunsmith and one from my friend. My friend is one of the nicest people you would ever meet, it is not in his personality to ever be harsh.
There was NO initial offer over the phone to REPLACE the firearm that we sent to them free of charge. I intend to call them and refer them to the Packing slip in the nicest way possible. The verbal offer over the phone preceded the Packing Slip, perhaps they were two different people(customer service & a shipping clerk). You can only guess why one hand does not know what the other hand is doing.
I realize that in mass production, sometimes things slip through the cracks. As long as the manufacturer makes it good, we can live with the mistake.
BayouRover
You mentioned that there are more Creedmoor's on the store shelf, and that is correct, we saw one at Sportsman's Warehouse Yesterday. Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed.
At this point, the only "agenda" that we have is to get a serviceable gun from Ruger to deer hunt with.
You mentioned that there are more Creedmoor's on the store shelf, and that is correct, we saw one at Sportsman's Warehouse Yesterday. Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed.
At this point, the only "agenda" that we have is to get a serviceable gun from Ruger to deer hunt with.
You sound like this is the only rifle he owns to hunt deer with, but yet he supposedly has many...??
the American are chrome moly so I doubt you'll have any issues with Rockwell hardness destroying barrels and actions like you keep bringing up.
It still sounds like you have an agenda of some sort with that happening frequently when you post.
I'm sensing a "good cop/bad cop" routine with keith and Ackman.
When will the truth raise its pointed head? Right now there is some kind of an undefined odor rising with all of the twists and turns being tossed out.
It's a lot simpler than good cop/bad cop........he's just a much nicer guy than I am. Some real jerks on here and neither of us like them. But his tolerance level is higher than mine and he's more patient.
This whole deal is screwy. Ruger gets the gun, calls the gunsmith and refuses to replace the gun, but they'll sell a blued gun. Gunsmith calls gun owner, gun owner calls Ruger. Ruger tells him the same thing....no replacement, but they'll sell him another different gun at wholesale He turns that down, no way is he gonna buy another gun. The junk gun finally returns to gunsmith and work order says that Ruger will replace the gun but free replacement was turned down. On the phone nobody was saying free replacement, only that he had to buy another gun and that's what was turned down. What's on that order isn't what they were told on the phone. That's why the wait for a final decision when the decision makers get back from vacation. You clear now?
Clear now? Not really.
If this is hard for you to understand, then it just is. Or you don't want to. Either way it doesn't matter.
]The only thing "screwy" is the ignorant bullshit you two knobs are trying to pull. There isn't any "several years" wait on 6.5mm Creedmoor Rugers. There wasn't any defect from Ruger. And there isn't any $500 replacement. The rifle was damaged due to a wannabe/shoddy "gunsmith." A free replacement was offered. You morons are working some kind of shakedown con. That much is clear.
This guy has serious problems. He's unhinged, cuckoo.
The only thing "screwy" is the ignorant bullshit you two knobs are trying to pull. There isn't any "several years" wait on 6.5mm Creedmoor Rugers. There wasn't any defect from Ruger. And there isn't any $500 replacement. The rifle was damaged due to a wannabe/shoddy "gunsmith." A free replacement was offered. You morons are working some kind of shakedown con. That much is clear.
This guy has serious problems. He's unhinged, cuckoo.
Yes, your posts and "logic" demonstrate multiple issues. Most notably your repeated sniffing of keith's cornhole.
The only thing "screwy" is the ignorant bullshit you two knobs are trying to pull. There isn't any "several years" wait on 6.5mm Creedmoor Rugers. There wasn't any defect from Ruger. And there isn't any $500 replacement. The rifle was damaged due to a wannabe/shoddy "gunsmith." A free replacement was offered. You morons are working some kind of shakedown con. That much is clear.
This guy has serious problems. He's unhinged, cuckoo.
Yes, your posts and "logic" demonstrate multiple issues. Most notably your repeated sniffing of keith's cornhole.
Yeah the internet asskicker.....and you're really kicking ass now.
The only thing "screwy" is the ignorant bullshit you two knobs are trying to pull. There isn't any "several years" wait on 6.5mm Creedmoor Rugers. There wasn't any defect from Ruger. And there isn't any $500 replacement. The rifle was damaged due to a wannabe/shoddy "gunsmith." A free replacement was offered. You morons are working some kind of shakedown con. That much is clear.
This guy has serious problems. He's unhinged, cuckoo.
Yes, your posts and "logic" demonstrate multiple issues. Most notably your repeated sniffing of keith's cornhole.
Yeah the internet asskicker.....and you're really kicking ass now.
Not really. It wasn't much effort exposing keith's lies and your bizarre defense of them.
Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed.
At this point, the only "agenda" that we have is to get a serviceable gun from Ruger to deer hunt with.
Then buy something else if you fear the Ruger. Get the free replacement rifle and sell it. Or thread the muzzle without removing the barrel as has been pointed out earlier. If the owner can't handle recoil now use managed recoil ammo. There are plenty of other ways to get where you want go just be open to them.
......Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed......
I'm starting to wonder if this issue is why a free replacement was supposedly rejected as Ruger states on the packing slip?
No one seems to want to talk about the original offer and rejection issue except other than skirting around it.
Bayou, I have talked about the Free Replacement Offer, there was NO Free Replacement Offer. That statement on the Packing Slip was in error. If they had offered a free Replacement with any kind of gun, my friend would have taken that offer.
The ONLY offer made was to sell my friend a gun at wholesale cost plus shipping and ins.
Bayou, I have talked about the Free Replacement Offer, there was NO Free Replacement Offer. That statement on the Packing Slip was in error. If they had offered a free Replacement with any kind of gun, my friend would have taken that offer.
The ONLY offer made was to sell my friend a gun at wholesale cost plus shipping and ins.
".....My friend has hundreds of dollars invested in Creedmoore dies and 6.5 bullets, they are paper weights now."
No matter what twists and turns you put on the story, it always tends to come back to this issue.
Coupled with: "......Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed......
It's your story, not mine. And it has a funny smell to it that rings of an agenda of some sort. "Ruger lies, we're victims, don't try to remove a barrel from a Ruger or you'll be a victim too because they glue their barrels on, yada yada".
Added for clarity: The first two bolded quotes are yours word for word. The third bolded statement is a paraphrased version of what you have been preaching since you got onto this diatribe.
I hope your named savior at Ruger is working today and that he suddenly doesn't become a dirty word like all of Ruger's other service personnel currently are, gender not withstanding.
I hope your named savior at Ruger is working today and that he suddenly doesn't become a dirty word like all of Ruger's other service personnel currently are, gender not withstanding.
He got that "name" from an old post of mine. I doubt he actually spoke with that person.
My friend has hundreds of dollars invested in Creedmoore dies and 6.5 bullets, they are paper weights now."
Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed......
Those two comments are absolutely true as to what I have been saying, problem is, why can't you understand them?
Bob Davis told me Rugers were not manufactured to be taken apart, his exact words not mine. We took one apart, now the gun is scrap, and my friend is out $750 plus tax. Ruger never made us an offer to replace the gun free of charge, if they had, we would not have anything to complain about.
Bricktop: He got that "name" from an old post of mine. I doubt he actually spoke with that person.
This is half truth, I did get the name from a post of yours, but I did speak to him.
I understand, but you seem to be omitting parts of the story as to what actually went down. Ruger puts something in print and you say they never said they'd do that, yet they also state that someone on your end declined the offer. Lots of loose ends dangling.
"......Rugers were not manufactured to be taken apart.........."
That is an interesting statement in that I, and I'm sure many others, have had numerous Rugers re-barreled, both blued and stainless models, and most gunsmiths state that they will re-barrel them.
If they were made to not be re-barreled I doubt that any smith worth his salts would touch them and they would tell you so. In addition, it would be common knowledge in this age of mass media and instant information distribution.
Still more twists and turns in this soap opera saga.
It is common knowledge that the vast majority of custom gunsmiths do not like to work on rugers in as far as rebarreling them.
"......Rugers were not manufactured to be taken apart.........." This was Bob Davis' comment to me, I was as shocked as you are until I started calling gunsmiths to see if it was possible to get this action rethreaded and related costs. Gunsmith's comments were not favorable....call your own gunsmiths and ask them to rethread a Ruger action or to true up a Ruger action and rebarrel....see for yourself.
Send me a PM with their name and phone number, please. Greg Tannel with Gre-Tan rifles in Co is a machinist's machinist and master gunsmith. He said it would run $500-600 and would not guarantee that there is enough meat on the shank of the barrel to cut off the threads and start over. Also, the action would have to be bored out to remove all existing threads and then rethread, this would make the sides of the action very thin, not a safe thing.
It takes a special jig fixture to mount the action in the 4 jaw chuck in order to true up an action, not many gunsmiths are willing to pop for the expense. A guy has to be a pretty good machinist to true up a Ruger action because they are investment castings and are hard as hell to recut due to the nature of the material. The machinist has to have a 1/4" inside threading tool that is carbide. Spring back from such a small tool is a real bitch to work with.
Bayou, there are no loose ends on my part, the dangling is all in the wording of the Packing Slip, it is a real mess of miscommunications. If they were to replace this gun with another, WE WOULD TAKE IT!!!
Bob Davis told me Rugers were not manufactured to be taken apart, his exact words not mine.
Bullshit.
WHY DON'T YOU CALL HIM?
I've talked to him before, knob, back when Ruger was taking apart and re-barreling my stainless Model 77. Your ass needs to call him and get hot on that replacement deal. By my count you've got 48 hours before that deal runs out.
It is common knowledge that the vast majority of custom gunsmiths do not like to work on rugers in as far as rebarreling them.
"......Rugers were not manufactured to be taken apart.........." This was Bob Davis' comment to me, I was as shocked as you are until I started calling gunsmiths to see if it was possible to get this action rethreaded and related costs. Gunsmith's comments were not favorable....call your own gunsmiths and ask them to rethread a Ruger action or to true up a Ruger action and rebarrel....see for yourself.
Send me a PM with their name and phone number, please. Greg Tannel with Gre-Tan rifles in Co is a machinist's machinist and master gunsmith. He said it would run $500-600 and would not guarantee that there is enough meat on the shank of the barrel to cut off the threads and start over. Also, the action would have to be bored out to remove all existing threads and then rethread, this would make the sides of the action very thin, not a safe thing.
It takes a special jig fixture to mount the action in the 4 jaw chuck in order to true up an action, not many gunsmiths are willing to pop for the expense. A guy has to be a pretty good machinist to true up a Ruger action because they are investment castings and are hard as hell to recut due to the nature of the material. The machinist has to have a 1/4" inside threading tool that is carbide. Spring back from such a small tool is a real bitch to work with.
Bayou, there are no loose ends on my part, the dangling is all in the wording of the Packing Slip, it is a real mess of miscommunications. If they were to replace this gun with another, WE WOULD TAKE IT!!!
In your first comment above you inform the world that, "It is common knowledge that the vast majority of custom gunsmiths do not like to work on rugers in as far as rebarreling them."
Then in the next comment following Bob Davis' statement you say, "I was as shocked as you are until I started calling gunsmiths to see if it was possible to get this action rethreaded and related costs. Gunsmith's comments were not favorable....call your own gunsmiths and ask them to rethread a Ruger action or to true up a Ruger action and rebarrel....see for yourself."
Re-barreling a good action and trying to clean up your action are two totally different breeds of cats. Don't try to blend them together to fit your current needs. I seriously doubt any gunsmith, including Greg Tannel, would try to clean up the action you are in possession of. That's not hard for even a 10 year old girl to understand.
I just a few minutes ago talked with a gunsmith that I use and my rifle is ready. It's a 6mm-250 chambered in a #3 Douglas somehow attached to a short action Ruger 77. I hope the smith didn't epoxy glue or weld anything together permanently. No, I'm not going to give you his name so you can drag him into your circle-jerk scenario to prove nothing. No good gun smith deserves that.
You get more bizarre with your comments as you go.
Your specific action in the condition it's in does not negate the fact that many Rugers have and will continue to be re-barreled. Get a grip on reality, Sherlock.
And you're now saying that you'd take a new replacement barreled action in spite of "......Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed......". You've circled the wagons so many times that the horses are dizzy and they're falling down around you.
Are you sure you're not the 80 year old here and maybe you're suffering from dementia, or at best a short memory issue? And is Ruger aware of the hack job you're trying to perform on them here with seemingly misinformation? Geezzzz...
My friend has hundreds of dollars invested in Creedmoore dies and 6.5 bullets, they are paper weights now."
Problem is, my friend will want to have a muzzle break installed on the barrel...we don't want to go through this again when the barrel is removed......
Those two comments are absolutely true as to what I have been saying, problem is, why can't you understand them?
Bob Davis told me Rugers were not manufactured to be taken apart, his exact words not mine. We took one apart, now the gun is scrap, and my friend is out $750 plus tax. Ruger never made us an offer to replace the gun free of charge, if they had, we would not have anything to complain about.
Bricktop: He got that "name" from an old post of mine. I doubt he actually spoke with that person.
This is half truth, I did get the name from a post of yours, but I did speak to him.
Are you sure he didn't say Rugers are not made to be taken apart by ham-fisted amateur peckerheads or incompetent pseudo-gunsmiths?
I called Ruger and asked to speak to the head of customer service. He pulled up the Packing slip # Where the gun was returned to the gunsmith.
I sent him pictures of the ruined threads of the action and barrel, he said that Ruger barrels are put on using Hydraulic pressure and are never intended to be taken off. He told me that if a barrel is taken off that it voids the warranty as I have customized the gun. He then reminded me of the offer to replace the gun for their whole sale price(about $500). I said, "OK" and he transferred me to another person.
This lady pulled up the Packing slip #, then took a second to read all the notes in the file. She then asked me to wait so that she could check the availability of a gun. She came back on the line and said that there were no 6.5 Creedmoor sporters in stock, blued or stainless, but there was a run of 6.5 Creedmoor Stainless Varmint with the grey/black laminate stock scheduled in a Month. I told her that the Varmint model would be just fine. Then I asked her to read the Packing slip once again and she did. I reminded her of the part of the Free Replacement, and she agreed.
She issued a RMA # to allow the return of the rifle, and a Fed Ex pick up order.
So, Ruger replaced the rifle with a better model, same caliber, and the owner is very happy.
Since Ruger barrels are put on with Hydraulic pressure, I will never take the barrel off another one, and anyone that doubts this should call customer service themselves before you attempt it. 928-778-6555
Moosemike, hundreds if not thousands of pounds of pressure is exerted mechanically to screw the barrel and action together. Fixtures would grip both the barrel and the action, and one is mechanically screwed onto the other using hydraulic pressure. Any misalignment or incorrectly placing one or the other in their respective fixtures would cause the type of thread stripping seen on this action and barrel. Removing the action, reveals problems with the misalignment, thread galling, and or +/- tolerances in manufacturing.
While these threads were stripped when the action was put on, the gun still shot extremely well(0.400-.685 three shot groups), the real problem happened when the barrel was unscrewed from the action.
I really appreciate the help of some very dedicated customer service Reps from Ruger in this issue. Everyone of the customer service reps have all said the same thing, "Rugers are not made to have their barrels taken off", and I believe them!
Instead of giving me Hell, call Ruger customer service and verify it for yourself..they are not bashful in telling you straight out not to remove the barrel from a Ruger rifle.
Now the question is whether or not Ruger will replace the near worn out barrel on my Ruger Mark II with the skeleton stock. That model is no longer being made...call tomorrow will find out.
Moosemike, hundreds if not thousands of pounds of pressure is exerted mechanically to screw the barrel and action together. Fixtures would grip both the barrel and the action, and one is mechanically screwed onto the other using hydraulic pressure.
And all this time I've been removing M77 barrels with hand tools.......
I know that I'm stout, I guess that it just makes it all the more obvious that you better speak to me with your hat in your hand..........
This picture shows where the first thread tried to cross thread and the thread tore instead. The large hunk of metal then tried to re-thread the action threads.
I sent him pictures of the ruined threads of the action and barrel, he said that Ruger barrels are put on using Hydraulic pressure and are never intended to be taken off. He told me that if a barrel is taken off that it voids the warranty as I have customized the gun.
Ruger does not have any "warranty," dickhead. This has been covered previously. In fact, it's on every Ruger owner's manual. Jesus Christ, your f*cking story gets dumber and dumber.
And all this time I've been removing M77 barrels with hand tools.......
I know that I'm stout, I guess that it just makes it all the more obvious that you better speak to me with your hat in your hand..........
Most of them probably come off just fine, but not when the threads are buggered. Ruger surely knows this can happen and says don't remove the barrel. They're installed by machine and removed the same way. It took 2 guys and 6' cheater bar to get this one off.
we shot this 6.5 Creedmore without it having been bedded. The rifle would shoot 1" groups, sometimes smaller. This is why we sent it to the gunsmith for pillar bedding the stock and muzzle break. We put perhaps 150 rounds down the tube prior to sending it to the gunsmith.
Originally Posted by keith
While these threads were stripped when the action was put on, the gun still shot extremely well(0.400-.685 three shot groups)
Most of them probably come off just fine, but not with buggered threads. Ruger surely knows this can happen and says don't remove the barrel. They're installed by machine and most likely removed the same way. It took 2 guys and 6' cheater bar to get this one off.
And the super duper gunsmith wonders why the action got buggered up.
Most of them probably come off just fine, but not with buggered threads. Ruger surely knows this can happen and says don't remove the barrel. They're installed by machine and most likely removed the same way. It took 2 guys and 6' cheater bar to get this one off.
And the super duper gunsmith wonders why the action got buggered up.
And if Ruger had removed the barrel they'd have used a machine. And those same buggered threads would've come out. And this retard just wants to argue about something.
It took 2 guys and 6' cheater bar to get this one off.
Originally Posted by keith
MagMarc, the gunsmith did not want to deal with the Ruger in the first place, not his first Rodeo with Ruger. He sat up a video camera just in case, sure nuff, the job went to hell.
And if Ruger had removed the barrel they'd have used a machine. And those same buggered threads would've come out. And this retard just wants to argue about something.
Why did the smith need to take the barrel off just to put a brake on it? No need for that if he knows what he is doing and has a properly equipped shop.
I suppose you or the super smith have also never heard of the concept of a relief cut if the barrel is on super tight?
And I am the retard. That is rich but then you are from Utah where the men are men and the sheep are afraid, very afraid.
I can see the real possibility of the barrels and actions being spun together in some mechanical manner to speed up the process, but spun to a fixed mated position with "hundreds if not thousands of pounds of pressure" is laughable. I'm sure the mechanical means are limited in the total torque applied once the surfaces mate much like a mechanic's torque wrench works.
If one was to poll a few good barrel smiths, you'd likely find that barrels and action are usually mated with a torque range of 70 to 100 ft/lbs. For chrome moly the barrel torquing is typically made with a little oil or light grease on the threads. If an anti seize substance is used, less torque ranging from 50 to 70 ft/lbs. is typically used.
Typically a high pressure grease is used on stainless threads to prevent galling and normally those barrels and actions are torqued around 70 to 80 ft/lbs of torque.
Granted there are smiths who may torque to relatively higher specs for specific reason that they believe in, but none are torquing to hundreds or possibly thousands of pounds. And very accurate BR rifles are sometimes torqued by hand with very little ft/lbs. of torque involved.
Neither Ruger or any other rifle manufacturer is torquing barrels to "hundreds if not thousands of pounds of pressure" whether thye are doing it mechanically or by hand.
BTW - its good to see that bad cop on duty again. Very helpful and inciteful input.
Hillbilly "Why did the smith need to take the barrel off just to put a brake on it? No need for that if he knows what he is doing and has a properly equipped shop.
I suppose you or the super smith have also never heard of the concept of a relief cut if the barrel is on super tight?"
This gunsmith runs the barrel through the headstock of the lathe and indicates in both the inside of the chamber and the muzzle to make sure that there is perfect alignment so the bullet will go through the muzzle break straight. He would also recut the factory crown at this point. If he left the action on the barrel, he would have to indicate on the outside of the barrel. The bore in factory barrels are rarely in the center of the barrel. He indicates both ends in to the 0.0001 if it is possible. On factory barrels, you often have to split some hairs on alignment.
Relief cuts on tight barrels are done on to remove a barrel that will not be used again. Relief cuts are never done on barrels that will still be in service. Also, with the threads stripped out and cross threaded, what good would have a relief cut have done?
This picture shows where the first thread tried to cross thread and the thread tore instead. The large hunk of metal then tried to re-thread the action threads.
You have confused what has happened. When they were screwing the action and the barrel together, the threads started stripping, and it took a lot of hydraulic pressure to seat the barrel against the shoulder.
Custom gunsmiths may use a max of 100 INCH pounds to assemble a gun, and I have personally changed barrels in a benchrest match by spinning a barrel on by hand. A product called NEVER SEIZE is used in the industry to apply to stainless to keep from galling..it is a much better product than grease.
I never said that they were torqued to hundreds if not thousands of pounds, what I said was that they use a machine that had that amount of hydraulic pressure to screw them on with...big difference.
Well dickhead. You're such a kick ass guy, and bein' on here to kick ass, even without bubblegum.........next time you're kicking ass, really kicking ass, say that's what you're doing. I'd like to see it.
If I'm confused, its only by the variations of one story that one man can present when backed into a corner that he created. Everything is a big difference in your mind - versus the reality of the real world. Once more the horses are staggering.
"Custom gunsmiths may use a max of 100 INCH pounds to assemble a gun..." Huh..? I think I mentioned that some BR shooters hand change barrels. And if you'll read a bit closer the second time around, I mentioned both grease and anti seize. All of your explanations above about what I'm confused about is not new to me nor likely to anyone else. You are not one to be explaining anything to any one who is old enough to talk after your exhibition this past few days.
Got any pictures of a......? Ah, never mind.
PS; I'm glad you got the rifle replaced, even after all of the crap you've tried to spread. Anyone with a decent view of things would have quietly held Ruger to what was in print originally and not spread their initial inability to make that happen all over the internet hoping to have a Kumbaya Moment. What purpose did that serve other than to make you look foolish?
And please request that Ackattack go back to sleep. He's simply plain annoying. I bet he posts from a dark room because he thinks that he's so scary that he even scares himself in the daylight.
anger is controlling your thought process and that is why you see variations. Also, I did talk to a number of people at Ruger, not just one..that may also contribute
I got plenty of pictures, what difference would it make, you would just argue over something else.
The owner did try and hold Ruger to what was in print, they ignored him.
The CRAP that I have tried to spread, is that Ruger owners should not attempt to take the barrels off their Ruger rifles, Ruger says so! Also, Ruger makes the best rifles that they have ever made right now, enjoy them for what they are, send them back to Ruger for a Rebarrel if/ when you shoot the barrel out. If there is a problem on a Re-barrel, Ruger will fix it, and you will not have the gunsmith tell you that your action/barrel is scrap when the threads strip.
anger is controlling your thought process and that is why you see variations. Also, I did talk to a number of people at Ruger, not just one..that may also contribute
I got plenty of pictures, what difference would it make, you would just argue over something else.
The owner did try and hold Ruger to what was in print, they ignored him.
The CRAP that I have tried to spread, is that Ruger owners should not attempt to take the barrels off their Ruger rifles, Ruger says so! Also, Ruger makes the best rifles that they have ever made right now, enjoy them for what they are, send them back to Ruger for a Rebarrel if/ when you shoot the barrel out. If there is a problem on a Re-barrel, Ruger will fix it, and you will not have the gunsmith tell you that your action/barrel is scrap when the threads strip.
keith, its hard to a be angry with you when you're so damn amusing. It's your thought process that's flawed if anyone's is. I'm not the only one who saw variations in what transpired here.
Yesterday afternoon I picked up a newly barreled rifle built on a Ruger 77 stainless action. Because of this thread I asked the smith if he had trouble getting the factory barrel off and he told me it spun right off. Go figure the sheer odds of that happening from what you've been educating everyone about. He's a very good barrel smith and he says he has never had a problems when re-barrelong Ruger actions. He commented that because of the flat sided Model 77 receiver that some smiths who didn't have the proper tooling don't like working on them. He has the tooling and he said they are no harder to square up and re-barrel than any other receiver. I'm assuming he's talking abut a good action to start with.
Since you mentioned angry, it reminds me. Call your dog off from PMing people he knows nothing about and trying to set them straight in his own unique manner . As I said above, he's plain annoying and not nearly as scary as he apparently sees himself.
Bayou, good luck with your new Ruger, glad it worked out, and I hope that you never have one with a problem. Like I said earlier, I had rebarreled two Ruger 77 Tang safety actions and the same friend had a Stainless 77 Mark II rebarreled last year with a 26" brux 6.5x47L.
In the end, Ruger's commitment to their customers won out, and for that, we are very grateful.
Most of them probably come off just fine, but not with buggered threads. Ruger surely knows this can happen and says don't remove the barrel. They're installed by machine and most likely removed the same way. It took 2 guys and 6' cheater bar to get this one off.
And the super duper gunsmith wonders why the action got buggered up.
All while saying, "I can save that action, its only a little bent"!
They could not screw it back on, they tried, what else could they do? Twisted action was the least of their problems!! It was cross threaded when the action was installed on the barrel.
I never said that they were torqued to hundreds if not thousands of pounds, what I said was that they use a machine that had that amount of hydraulic pressure to screw them on with...big difference.
The only thing "hydraulic" has been the dick sucking between you and Ackbitch. And your scam is still bullshit.
This gunsmith runs the barrel through the headstock of the lathe and indicates in both the inside of the chamber and the muzzle to make sure that there is perfect alignment so the bullet will go through the muzzle break straight. He would also recut the factory crown at this point. If he left the action on the barrel, he would have to indicate on the outside of the barrel. The bore in factory barrels are rarely in the center of the barrel. He indicates both ends in to the 0.0001 if it is possible. On factory barrels, you often have to split some hairs on alignment.
So, in other words, this smith is limited in his ability and understanding of how to do certain things and when he hits a problem with a tight barrel he has no qualms about wrecking an action in an attempt to make it conform to his skill set instead of stopping and examining things and looking for another approach or admitting he doesn't know what he is doing.
Bayou, good luck with your new Ruger, glad it worked out, and I hope that you never have one with a problem. Like I said earlier, I had rebarreled two Ruger 77 Tang safety actions and the same friend had a Stainless 77 Mark II rebarreled last year with a 26" brux 6.5x47L.
In the end, Ruger's commitment to their customers won out, and for that, we are very grateful.
I bet they would have been also without this soap opera that you scripted.
I wasn't worried this time and I won't be the next time either if I have another one re-barreled by someone who knows what he's doing.
I hope you called your retriever off. He's kinda' boring with his approach on your behalf.
This gunsmith runs the barrel through the headstock of the lathe and indicates in both the inside of the chamber and the muzzle to make sure that there is perfect alignment so the bullet will go through the muzzle break straight. He would also recut the factory crown at this point. If he left the action on the barrel, he would have to indicate on the outside of the barrel. The bore in factory barrels are rarely in the center of the barrel. He indicates both ends in to the 0.0001 if it is possible. On factory barrels, you often have to split some hairs on alignment.
So, in other words, this smith is limited in his ability and understanding of how to do certain things and when he hits a problem with a tight barrel he has no qualms about wrecking an action in an attempt to make it conform to his skill set instead of stopping and examining things and looking for another approach or admitting he doesn't know what he is doing.
Just to hopefully add a bit of additional reality to all of this, I called Ruger this morning and asked a lady at their technical help desk if their Model 77 rifles are capable of being re-barreled. I recognize this is just one call, but here�s what I heard���.
Her response was as follows:
1. Yes, their Model 77 actions are perfectly capable of being re-barreled if the proper tooling and knowledge of their barrel process is used to do so.
2. Ruger naturally prefers to do any re-barreling themselves, and if you send them a rifle, if at all possible, they will only re-barrel it to the chambering it was in originally to avoid any other problems with feeding issues, etc., that might require additional work and expense on their part.
3. If you do have a Ruger action re-barreled by a custom smith, Ruger is reluctant to work on the rifle later if things don�t go as planned with the smith�s work. And they consider any work done such as barrel work as being custom and not to Ruger�s specs. She did say it would not automatically void the unwritten warranty but that it makes it tougher to rectify all issues that might arise due to incorrect work being done by others.
With that information I asked if there would be any additional difficulties re-barreling a Model 77 action versus any other make of gun. She did cite the well known and recognized characteristic of the flat sided feature of the Ruger action as causing some difficulties if the proper tooling and equipment are not used. Due to the flat sides on the action, she stated that the metal thickness in those areas is thinner than other places on the action, and the action can possibly be crushed during barrel removal without use of the proper tooling. (Imagine that. - My comment)
I asked if their barrels were torqued to higher than normal barrel torques, and she told me that she doesn�t know precisely how much torque a specific technician might place on an original factory barrel or on a specific and particular re-barrel job, but that she feels that doing it is just like any other maker�s actions and barrels.
At that point she once again pointed out that Ruger would prefer to do any re-barrel work on their rifles as it puts then in a tough and sometimes costly position trying to fix someone else�s problems.
At that point I thanked her for the information and said good bye. I�m not sure what the next call might result in as far as conflicting information is concerned, but that�s what I got with the female tech person that I talked to.
Edited to add: Any time I send any make of action off to be re-barreled, I recognize that the maker is not probably going to be overjoyed with the fact. Armed with that, I'd never in good conscience expect a manufacturer to bail me out if something unexpectedly went wrong along the way. That information would be between me and the smith to deal with in a private and fair way.
Just to hopefully add a bit of additional reality to all of this, I called Ruger this morning and asked a lady at their technical help desk if their Model 77 rifles are capable of being re-barreled. I recognize this is just one call, but here�s what I heard���.
Her response was as follows:
1. Yes, their Model 77 actions are perfectly capable of being re-barreled if the proper tooling and knowledge of their barrel process is used to do so.
2. Ruger naturally prefers to do any re-barreling themselves, and if you send them a rifle, if at all possible, they will only re-barrel it to the chambering it was in originally to avoid any other problems with feeding issues, etc., that might require additional work and expense on their part.
3. If you do have a Ruger action re-barreled by a custom smith, Ruger is reluctant to work on the rifle later if things don�t go as planned with the smith�s work. And they consider any work done such as barrel work as being custom and not to Ruger�s specs. She did say it would not automatically void the unwritten warranty but that it makes it tougher to rectify all issues that might arise due to incorrect work being done by others.
With that information I asked if there would be any additional difficulties re-barreling a Model 77 action versus any other make of gun. She did cite the well known and recognized characteristic of the flat sided feature of the Ruger action as causing some difficulties if the proper tooling and equipment are not used. Due to the flat sides on the action, she stated that the metal thickness in those areas is thinner than other places on the action, and the action can possibly be crushed during barrel removal without use of the proper tooling. (Imagine that. - My comment)
I asked if their barrels were torqued to higher than normal barrel torques, and she told me that she doesn�t know precisely how much torque a specific technician might place on an original factory barrel or on a specific and particular re-barrel job, but that she feels that doing it is just like any other maker�s actions and barrels.
At that point she once again pointed out that Ruger would prefer to do any re-barrel work on their rifles as it puts then in a tough and sometimes costly position trying to fix someone else�s problems.
At that point I thanked her for the information and said good bye. I�m not sure what the next call might result in as far as conflicting information is concerned, but that�s what I got with the female tech person that I talked to.
Edited to add: Any time I send any make of action off to be re-barreled, I recognize that the maker is not probably going to be overjoyed with the fact. Armed with that, I'd never in good conscience expect a manufacturer to bail me out if something unexpectedly went wrong along the way. That information would be between me and the smith to deal with in a private and fair way.
3. If you do have a Ruger action re-barreled by a custom smith, Ruger is reluctant to work on the rifle later if things don�t go as planned with the smith�s work.
Which is reasonable. Most gunsmiths don't like to try and clean up someone else's mess.
Originally Posted by BayouRover
I�m not sure what the next call might result in as far as conflicting information is concerned, but that�s what I got with the female tech person that I talked to.
I would expect you would receive very similar, if not identical, information on any subsequent calls. Though you forgot to ask about the "epoxied barrels."
Just to hopefully add a bit of additional reality to all of this, I called Ruger this morning and asked a lady at their technical help desk if their Model 77 rifles are capable of being re-barreled. I recognize this is just one call, but here�s what I heard���.
Her response was as follows:
1. Yes, their Model 77 actions are perfectly capable of being re-barreled if the proper tooling and knowledge of their barrel process is used to do so.
2. Ruger naturally prefers to do any re-barreling themselves, and if you send them a rifle, if at all possible, they will only re-barrel it to the chambering it was in originally to avoid any other problems with feeding issues, etc., that might require additional work and expense on their part.
3. If you do have a Ruger action re-barreled by a custom smith, Ruger is reluctant to work on the rifle later if things don�t go as planned with the smith�s work. And they consider any work done such as barrel work as being custom and not to Ruger�s specs. She did say it would not automatically void the unwritten warranty but that it makes it tougher to rectify all issues that might arise due to incorrect work being done by others.
With that information I asked if there would be any additional difficulties re-barreling a Model 77 action versus any other make of gun. She did cite the well known and recognized characteristic of the flat sided feature of the Ruger action as causing some difficulties if the proper tooling and equipment are not used. Due to the flat sides on the action, she stated that the metal thickness in those areas is thinner than other places on the action, and the action can possibly be crushed during barrel removal without use of the proper tooling. (Imagine that. - My comment)
I asked if their barrels were torqued to higher than normal barrel torques, and she told me that she doesn�t know precisely how much torque a specific technician might place on an original factory barrel or on a specific and particular re-barrel job, but that she feels that doing it is just like any other maker�s actions and barrels.
At that point she once again pointed out that Ruger would prefer to do any re-barrel work on their rifles as it puts then in a tough and sometimes costly position trying to fix someone else�s problems.
At that point I thanked her for the information and said good bye. I�m not sure what the next call might result in as far as conflicting information is concerned, but that�s what I got with the female tech person that I talked to.
Edited to add: Any time I send any make of action off to be re-barreled, I recognize that the maker is not probably going to be overjoyed with the fact. Armed with that, I'd never in good conscience expect a manufacturer to bail me out if something unexpectedly went wrong along the way. That information would be between me and the smith to deal with in a private and fair way.
Very interesting information. Thanks for tracking it down and posting it.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/81157mmRM_with_140_North_Fork.JPG)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/811530-06_1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/8115257Roberts_one_ragged_hole_23.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/8115300Win_180TSX-1.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_03847.JPG)
![[Linked Image]](http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/195/270express38xj.jpg)
but you mentioned "virtues" so I thought I'd throw that out there.![[Linked Image]](http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l553/model99savage/Dumbass_zps0536aeb8.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l553/model99savage/scan0001_zpsdcf77108.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Misc%20Stuff/love_zps66f800f6.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/0xPGF.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/fordisto/media/ruger270_zpsb9c1ffcc.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.picgifs.com/baby-graphics/baby-graphics/crying/baby-graphics-crying-002093.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l553/model99savage/rugerworkorder002_zpsf6cd4238.jpg)
