I'm thinking 85 X's at 3500 would be fun, as would the 150 LRAB. Lots of other bullets in the mix peak my interest -- the 100 and 110 Accubonds with those thick jackets might not be bad either. The typical 130's and 150's do their job. The 270 components are everywhere. I'm stocked with appropriate powders as well.
Not that my 260, 6.5 Creedmoor or 7-08 can't get the job done....and I know there is no real world advantage the 270 offers over my 308 or 243 for the animals I hunt.
I started out with a 270 and evolved. Maybe I've come full circle?
He's just remembering that 550 yd. shot on a whitetail at the farm in Beech Grove he made in 1988 with a 270. Or he's just stirring the pot...........(grin)
To stir the pot more (not that you need it bud..grin), I load for my bud's .270 with 140 grain Berger's and found a killer load that he dialed and smoked a javelina at 678 yards earlier this spring.
I'm thinking 85 X's at 3500 would be fun, as would the 150 LRAB. Lots of other bullets in the mix peak my interest -- the 100 and 110 Accubonds with those thick jackets might not be bad either. The typical 130's and 150's do their job. The 270 components are everywhere. I'm stocked with appropriate powders as well.
Not that my 260, 6.5 Creedmoor or 7-08 can't get the job done....and I know there is no real world advantage the 270 offers over my 308 or 243 for the animals I hunt.
I started out with a 270 and evolved. Maybe I've come full circle?
Don't listen to those pack of festering ingrates, the .270 is definitely not gay...it is more a butchly feminine!
One on left (and bottom) is the 1956 Brno ZG47 .270 I sold to my brother.
Yeah, at hunting ranges the 85 shoots flatter and drifts similarly, while kicking less and penetrating as far as a 150 grain Partition (in my tests). That being said, the 95 TTSX is probably the pick of the litter for deer. Might run a 110 TTSX if elk are in the mix.
Been running all kinds of numbers. I'd choose the light X's for an up close hammer. I'd just like to see what they'd do. Drift sucks as distance increases.
I'd go with a different bullet as yardage increased.
I swore I'd never own a 270 but after walking in a pawnshop and seeing an old adl that looked like it had never been shot for 250.00 I called myself a liar. I hope I can't get it to shoot (highly unlikely though) so I can re-barrel to 280ai
Before you claim a .257 Roy redundant load some 80gr ttsx with 76 grains of rl-22. Just imagine a laser beam with sound effects when it smacks meat.
Or run an 85 grain TSX in the 270 at similar speeds, while burning less powder and with less recoil and noise than the 257 Roy, plus an extra round or two in the magazine. Also the 270 has 150 grain Partitions as an option if a guy wanted to go after Brown Bear or Eland.
110�s will outrun 85's around the 200'ish yard line.
You talking velocity wise?
There�s no doubt that the 110 is a better all around bullet, but that 85 is a freaking laser out to the ranges most stuff is shot - I think of it as a beefed up 220 Swift.
110�s will outrun 85's around the 200'ish yard line.
You talking velocity wise?
There�s no doubt that the 110 is a better all around bullet, but that 85 is a freaking laser out to the ranges most stuff is shot - I think of it as a beefed up 220 Swift.
85's at 500 drop 36.5" w/100 yd zero 110's at 500 drop 37.2" w/100yd zero
They arrive with more ass and 10" less drift. BC wins every time....
Who the hell cares what they do at 500 yards? That�s well beyond the range 99% of game is shot at anyway, plus if I were planning on making a habit of 500 yard shots, I wouldn�t be using either of those bullets, and instead go to something like a 140 Accubond or 150 ABLR.
The only place BC wins every time is on the internet. For that matter, I could hunt the rest of my life with round nose bullets and be perfectly content.
When I said I think of the 85 TSX/270 combo as an overgrown 220 Swift, it�s because that�s exactly how my Dad uses it. His two primary rifles are a Swift firing 55 Vmaxs and the 270 with 85s. They both have very similar trajectory/drift characteristics, so he can easily transfer from the pdog/coyote rifle to the deer/elk rifle and not have to think about different numbers.
I�ve done similar with my centerfire rifle selection. My hunting rifles all use similar bc bullets shot at similar speeds, so I simply grab the rifle suited to the game at hand and go. Makes for a quick and deadly killing setup.
Who the hell cares what they do at 500 yards? That�s well beyond the range 99% of game is shot at anyway, plus if I were planning on making a habit of 500 yard shots, I wouldn�t be using either of those bullets, and instead go to something like a 140 Accubond or 150 ABLR.
The only place BC wins every time is on the internet. For that matter, I could hunt the rest of my life with round nose bullets and be perfectly content.
You could dropkick them at 200 and gain 1/2" over 110 "rainbow elk bullets"
Who the hell cares what they do at 500 yards? That�s well beyond the range 99% of game is shot at anyway, plus if I were planning on making a habit of 500 yard shots, I wouldn�t be using either of those bullets, and instead go to something like a 140 Accubond or 150 ABLR.
The only place BC wins every time is on the internet. For that matter, I could hunt the rest of my life with round nose bullets and be perfectly content.
You could dropkick them at 200 and gain 1/2" over 110 "rainbow elk bullets"
BC aint long division........
Oh the 85 works fine on elk too, but I�d be happier with a bit more. Of course that comes from actually shooting them, and not talking on the internet.
But there�s not a lot of use in trying to talk sense into someone who still thinks moly is worthwhile.
Was it the part when you said it was a lazer at hunting ranges, BC doesn't matter, or you could use round nose and be perfectly content? I don't know what a "hunting range" is, but for someone who is content and doesn't care, you certainly got your panties in a wad.....
I just test-shot my latest .270 today. Bought it a month ago for what some people would consider too much money at the annual find-raiser auction of the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center and Museum in Lewiston, Idaho. They have a handful of the commemorative Featherweight Model 70's Winchester put together a couple years ago, and I got to pick the one I wanted, which has spectacular wood. (You can see on the Deep Creek Press Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/DeepCreekPress)
But they're not just pretty. Winchester used really good barrels and bedded them right, and Brad O'Connor (Jack's son) told me that every one he's heard about shot very well. I sighted this one in with the last 4 rounds of a box of Hornady 130-grain American Whitetail ammo, the first 3 at 25 to get close and the last at 100, which landed 1-1/2 inches high, almost dead center. Then I shot 3 rounds of Norma 150-grain Oryx factory ammo, and they went into .40. Including the single Hornady round the entire group was under 3/4". And that was with a 4x33 Leupold FX-II, because I scoped it "traditionally." I do believe this rifle is going to shoot.
Plan to use it to test a bunch of newer bullets and powders for a Handloader article on "The Modern .270." Will be a hoot to do it with a super-traditional rifle.
I just test-shot my latest .270 today. Bought it a month ago for what some people would consider too much money at the annual find-raiser auction of the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center and Museum in Lewiston, Idaho. They have a handful of the commemorative Featherweight Model 70's Winchester put together a couple years ago, and I got to pick the one I wanted, which has spectacular wood. (You can see on the Deep Creek Press Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/DeepCreekPress)
But they're not just pretty. Winchester used really good barrels and bedded them right, and Brad O'Connor (Jack's son) told me that every one he's heard about shot very well. I sighted this one in with the last 4 rounds of a box of Hornady 130-grain American Whitetail ammo, the first 3 at 25 to get close and the last at 100, which landed 1-1/2 inches high, almost dead center. Then I shot 3 rounds of Norma 150-grain Oryx factory ammo, and they went into .40. Including the single Hornady round the entire group was under 3/4". And that was with a 4x33 Leupold FX-II, because I scoped it "traditionally." I do believe this rifle is going to shoot.
Plan to use it to test a bunch of newer bullets and powders for a Handloader article on "The Modern .270." Will be a hoot to do it with a super-traditional rifle.
That is a real looker and shooter, a very nice rifle!
The search didn't last long. Stopped by the LGS on the way home and started shopping. They had tons of new and used 270's, but I kept going back to the same thing.
They got in 25+ Model 70's on a close out from a distributor a couple weeks ago. Anyway, the rifles are priced WAY below retail (example: Extreme Weathers are $715). I picked up a stainless Ultimate Shadow and headed to the counter...
They're all the BACO Model 70's if anybody is interested.
The search didn't last long. Stopped by the LGS on the way home and started shopping. They had tons of new and used 270's, but I kept going back to the same thing.
They got in 25+ Model 70's on a close out from a distributor a couple weeks ago. Anyway, the rifles are priced WAY below retail (example: Extreme Weathers are $715). I picked up a stainless Ultimate Shadow and headed to the counter...
They're all the BACO Model 70's if anybody is interested.
It's been my experience that people who start quoting numbers when asked for their actual experience--well, there's a reason!
Exactly!
As I mentioned previously, the 110 TTSX is likely a better all-around bullet for the 270 over the 85 tsx. But for normal hunting distances on deer sized game (especially in the east, as shortactionsmoker spoke of) the 85 works well, and when loaded down somewhat makes a really great low recoil killing bullet.
Between Dad and I we've shot enough stuff with the 85 tsx to get a decent idea on how it works.
The list includes a couple of antelope (including the doe Dad shot which you were present for), a half dozen mule deer and whitetail does, and a cow elk.
I also used the 110 tsx briefly. It seemed to work about like the 85!
It's been my experience that a lot of bullets make similar holes, even if their weight varies somewhat!
As Phil Shoemaker said on another thread the other day, the three most important things are placement, bullet and the cartridge, and of the three the first is by far the most important, and the second far more important then the third. (Have heard the same thing in various ways from other people, but Phil tends to boil things down.)
Am still trying to get down there for at least a day or so. Might be able to pass through later this month. Things have been a little crazy.
I'm thinking 85 X's at 3500 would be fun, as would the 150 LRAB. Lots of other bullets in the mix peak my interest -- the 100 and 110 Accubonds with those thick jackets might not be bad either. The typical 130's and 150's do their job. The 270 components are everywhere. I'm stocked with appropriate powders as well.
Not that my 260, 6.5 Creedmoor or 7-08 can't get the job done....and I know there is no real world advantage the 270 offers over my 308 or 243 for the animals I hunt.
I started out with a 270 and evolved. Maybe I've come full circle?
I'm with ya on this one. I started with a .270 too. Been thinking a bunch lately about another .270. I've had more DRT kills with a .270 than any other cartridge. Most everything I've shot since should have been just as good and given similar results, but nothing really has. No commonly available true VLD type bullets, but out to 600 or so, the .270 still gives a pretty good account of itself. As much as I watch for the opportunity, nothing seems to provide me with the opportunity to shoot at it that far anyway.
I'm thinking maybe a stainless Howa in a Manners EH3� Is $550 a good price on a stainless Howa?
For longer ranges, the 140gr NAB shot well for me. Bullet drop matched JBM out to 800 yards. I see Litz has recently tested the new 150 LRAB and found it had a G1 of 0.569 with 7-twist. With 10-twist it was 0.543... still pretty good but not that much better than the regular 140 NAB. Higher BC bullets in 0.277 would make the 270 even better for LR, but there's plenty of bullets for most hunters.
I like the 270 and have owned pump, semi, and bolt actions. It seems like a baby-magnum. Shoots flat enough with 130gr bullets that dotz aren't needed for the ranges most people shoot. Haven't killed anything with a 270 though.
Just need to be careful or else this will turn into "the 7mm RM is more uber"
Speaking of the 7RM... my buddy's T3 Tikkler in 7RM shoots the 150gr NP at ~2900fps with H1000 really well... lights out actually. I just don't tell him that its like a 270 burning a lot more powder
The 150 Partition in the .270 does great on big game. Have seen it used on elk, moose and the tougher African plains game, and it flat works. That's not just my opinion, either. Take a look at the .270 info on www.ballisticstudies.com.
The last 270 I had was sold to a buddy at work... a nice BAR MKii. It shot the 140gr NAB handloads under 1". Since my bud doesn't reload, I told him to get one box each of 130gr and 150gr Core-Lokts. We shot the 130gr CL first... basically one hole! Then, we shot the 150gr CL... they went into the same hole!
I've heard the same thing from others... its not uncommon for 130gr and 150gr bullets to have the same POI from a 270.
I was getting ~2900-2950 with the 140 NAB depending on rifle. And similar with the 140 BTSP but primers looked flatter. I measured the BTSP and it was a freckly larger in o.d. Same rifle(s), cases, primers, charge, etc. Both loads had the same zero and poi... BTSP was much more affordable though.
Was seeing around 2950 with 140 ABs as well, again with 4831SC. Have some '19 I may try. 110TTSX, 129LRX, 135SMK, 140NAB, and 150 ABLRs have all shot well in my rig. Not a shocker though...
Pretty interesting info! Aside from the obvious marketing hoopla, I don't understand why manufacturers inflate BC's. Guys that shoot at distance will soon see the difference.
A guy mentioned the question in the link you posted, but I would assume Litz isn't "friendly" with other bullet manufacturers. His data has been spot on when I use it.
My understanding is it's not so much that manufacturers are inflating their BCs as it is not testing them over a long enough distance to get a really accurate number, or using a computer model to predict the BC without real world testing.
It's very interesting how Litz is finding different twist rates change the BC numbers. No wonder estimated BC numbers are all over the map, and it just goes to show that each individual rifle will show slightly different numbers.
I get a kick outta this schit,in how "numbers don't matter"...then the same Clueless [bleep] who espouse that,go on to try and talk numbers. Funny schit!
Also get a kick outta the faction which has a whole bunch different boolits/loads for a given chambering/rifle,then shoots schit boolits in other chamberings/rifles,so as to bask in the glow of the "benefits" of all of their schit,being schitty. THAT is [bleep] awesome! Wow.
Now contrary to the mantra of Window Lickers everywhere,it is in fact very EASY to simply opt a great boolit and shoot the [bleep] outta it for everything. I realize that is gonna really steal some thunder and I'm fairly certain,that constant adds more than a little humor to the equation. Must be nice to do so little,so as to opine twist rates and numerical designators slated the projectile(s) proper are "moot". I've never been "lucky" enough to shoot that little. Laffin'!
Cracks me the [bleep] up,how so many spend sooooooooo much time,finding reasons not to shoot and then offer them "findings" like they are "something". There's seemingly no end to the lengths The Paper Hat Brigade will go,to flaunt their Imagination and Pretend. It'd be funnier than [bleep] to see the pile of primers expended by these cross-eyed drooling dumbfhuqqs in a year's time,along with a pic of their mug...if only to have instant belly laughs readily categorized and easily accessed for humor.
Simply [bleep] amazing,how stupid most [bleep] are.(understatement)
I've said long,loud and often from Day One,that the Terminal Effects Impetus chart is as follows:
1) Placement 2) Projectile selection 3) Headstamp
Yet Buffoons are lined up for [bleep] miles on end,to hastily put the cart in front of the horse and extoll upon those "virtues".
Thank God for the internet,if only for the [bleep] laughs.
I'd be curious to know what all you've killed with the 110 ttsx to proclaim it's superiority over the 85 tsx.
I'm just a simple shooter that thought he understood physics....
Oh so no experience. Just like I thought.
The guys quoting lots of numbers are often the guys without much real world experience.
That why you shoot your mouth off about how awesome the 150 LRAB is in the .270... every time it's on the ropes vs. the 6.5s/7s? Didn't realize it was due to so much 'real world experience'...
There isn't a (T)TSX in .270 I wouldn't point at the biggest ungulate you could find.... if I could get it out of my rainbow colored Eberlestock in time.
That�s funny, because I don�t remember mentioning any experience with the 150 ABLR. I will say that it will very likely perform just like a bunch of other bullets, regardless of caliber. This killing stuff just isn�t that hard. You can spout all the BS numbers you want about the supposed superiority of your chosen rounds, but it just isn�t seen in the hunting field.
You didn't mention experience.... until you mentioned it as requesit from someone else to establish their assertion as valid. I ask, are you doing the same?
You've soaked the 150 LRAB's cork on numerous posts .... 'Quoting numbers'.... yet, you admittedly have zero experience. But somehow.... you're also the guy with all the 'experience' that trumps everyone else's experience. That's almost democrat level hypocracy.... or, does it only apply to the rest of us?
Back to the 'experience' part.....
The 140 Accubond was great in a pards .270 WSM, clobbering multiple bears and blacktail deer at ranges from treestand to a 1/4 mile plus. Of the close to a dozen head of big game, all bullets exited. If I were forced to slum a .270.... it'd be set-up like 'bore's... and flinging the 140 Abond at 2900-3000. I'm pretty certain it'd do good work...
You�re right, I should refrain from talking up bullets I haven�t personally used on game. I did buy some 150 ABLRs, they shoot fine in a pre 64 Model 70 at 2900 fps. Overall though, I�m pretty happy with 140 Accubonds, from what I�ve seen. They shoot well and kill well.
I�m pretty happy with 140 Accubonds, from what I�ve seen. They shoot well and kill well.
I concur.... still probably the best all-around option in a .270 pill.
I'm curious how the 150s pan out.... my guess from the get-go was .550 as an average BC. Looks like I might get to cough-up a little of the crow I ate last year on said subject.
The difference between Brian's number and Noslers is 1-1/2" of drop at 500 yards, which is only as far as I've ever shot them. The center of my group was right at 48", but I could see where it could be lower. Curious to see what fellas are finding at longer ranges....
Hard to say what'll happen past 500y, 16B. Let us know what you find out.
I had some weird results with the 140 BTSP... it was a good 18" low at 800y vs JBM. At 500y, the 140 BTSP and NAB were dead-nutz with the same zero. Basically the same velocity and similar BC. I fiddled with the numbers (BC, velocity, etc.) but couldn't account for the extra drop with the BTSP.
At the time I was thinking that the BTSP was less stable and shedding more velocity beyond 500y. I just used those bullets for cheap target practice out to 500y and used the NAB for longer distances and hunting. After those BTSP were consumed I just stuck with the NAB for everything and didn't bother with the Hornys anymore.
That's gonna have to be someone else's chore. The three shots you see on the right were shot at the same setting, the other 2 the night before of I remember correctly. Can't be for sure.
I've heard the same thing from others... its not uncommon for 130gr and 150gr bullets to have the same POI from a 270.
Jason
This +1
I'm still messing around with my second .270. I have loads developed with 130's, 140's, and 150's all of which you can cover with a dime. All of which hit paper 1.5 inches high at 100yds.
Not sure which bullet with get the nod. The 130's are Horn Interlock, 140 partition and 150 partition. Rifle Sako A7.
He's just remembering that 550 yd. shot on a whitetail at the farm in Beech Grove he made in 1988 with a 270. Or he's just stirring the pot...........(grin)
I think I know of a 550 yard open spot on that farm...
Not sure which bullet with get the nod. The 130's are Horn Interlock, 140 partition and 150 partition. Rifle Sako A7.
Hornady's do well in two 270's I have but they lag just a bit behind Nosler's 130 gr Ballistic Tips with 59.5 gr of H4831. You ought to give the a try.
The numbers indicate it should be "inferior" but it sure never worked out that way for me on critters.
John
It does seem to work that way.
That's my experience. I have had more than a few .270s and grew up in the wood, hills and fields holding one. My 130 Hornady cup cores or 140 accerbonds may not have the .64ish BC of a heavy 7mm, but they tend to kill schit reliably at a distance that most don't even practice.
You gals sure do have interesting "perspectives". Laffin'!
Why in the [bleep],would you not wish to maximize whatever chambering you're shooting,for each and every poke?!? Increased aero forms,have advantages from the muzzle to whatever distance you feel is "fair". The upside being there ain't no downside. Hint.
A 0.5BC+ projectile travelin' at 3000fps is called a 243Win. If it horns you up,to go to a long action and introduce a bunch more powder and increase recoil/noise to dupe same...well then have your "way". You just might not wanna "brag" it up,where someone else could hear the "thought" process,as they just might correlate your dumbfhuqqtitude in terms even you could savvy.
Hint.
Funny how it actually works and I mean [bleep] funny!
Just so I know the history of crap talking the 270 win ,who started all this ?
The "High BC" people.
I've noticed in a number of threads that many shooters buy rifles in calibers that have high BC bullets available but shoot lower BC bullets in them. Like 80 gr. bullets in a .243, 120 grain bullets in a .260 Rem, or 130 grain bullets in a .308. You could match the BC's of those bullets in a 25-06 or .270 Win.
A 0.5BC+ projectile travelin' at 3000fps is called a 243Win. If it horns you up,to go to a long action and introduce a bunch more powder and increase recoil/noise to dupe same...
It's a fairly simple concept, except for those that think numbers are meaningless, then its like talking to a wall...
Do you know of any .5 BC controlled expansion hunting bullets out there for the 243? I sure don't.
One must compare like bullets. That's where the 270 really shines. Plenty of good hunting bullets out there, launched at good speeds.
Something I really took to heart during this latest shortage is that to rely on a cartridge or rifle which is reliant on one component to get the performance needed is a bad idea. This could be seen in the past with the guys building rifles for the Wildcat bullets, and also folks who used the 162 Amax from their 280 AIs as a trump card over the 270. While I saw shortages on one bullet or another for the 270, there was always something available to go kill stuff, whether in factory or component form, and whether we're talking brass, bullets, or powders to feed it all.
Given Boxer's aversion to Burgers, I'd say 123gr Skinner but a .264 doesn't seem like his style, although he seems to collect them all. Not sure if a S/A like 284 could drive a 123gr at 3325gr though.
Boxer and Kirby have gotten me interested in the 6mm-06. Kirby says its the most "extreme" chambering without going to his mega cases and huge charges of powder.
If the 105gr BTHP could be driven at 3300-3400 fps it would be one wicked combo. BC is only 0.530 but in combination with the velocity it more than makes up for it and hangs well with bullets like the 162gr AMAX at typical velocities... and less recoil.
Joe Average ain't very [bleep] bright,as these Threads so eloquently attest.(grin)
Midway had the 105'Max in stock last night and the Hornie HPBT on Sale...both gone now,so someone is paying attention...unless I alone got 'em all.(grin)
I enjoy the comments by the folks who shoot the least,as they champion 'dis boolit,dat boolit and have formulated a scheme on when to fling what and it's a colorful yarn knit into sheer and utter nothingness. That pun be intended.
Purty [bleep] easy and contrary to Window Licking popular opinion,that a gent can simply pick a rather excellent boolit and simply apply it for everything. I know,I know...that's a [bleep] radically extreme idea and will make lotsa folks VERY [bleep] nervous. Laffin'!
Again it's ALL about boolits,as the blueprint to terminal affects is as follows and as per always:
1) Placement 2) Projectile Selection 3) Headstamp
Now it'll come as a surprise to more than a few,that a great #1,will reliably work in harmony to arrange a great #2. Read that again. Then one more time.
Drop is Physics,wind is VooDoo and if drop whoops you,you done dropped the ball. Hint.
Drift is a function of many things,much of which are corroborated via The Force and it is a series of subjective determinations which are analyzed in overview and extrapolated to formulate The Cure. While it'd be nice to be able to purchase a "The Wind NEVER Blows Here" button,to depress as per whim,that ain't how schit shakes out. You gotta play in it,to Master it and the single greatest advantage one can field in the fray,is slickery boolits. Read that again.
Very entertaining to line a herd of folks up with their Pet Rifles and Pet Ammo,then let 'em go to dissecting wind and then compare/contrast boolits/chamberings,as a barometer of evaluation. Gets spendy quick,because folks is throwing schit offa cliffs and racing home to procure new. Seen it about a bajillion times.(grin)
You accidentally connect a coupla dots of contention,in that a 25-06 or 270 can only hang with S/A offerings squirting schiutty boolits,so as to keep it "fair" for the L/A offerings. Read that again. Hint.
Proficiency cain't be purchased and is attained simply by the actual act of shooting,which very obviously scratches off most folks from the list...despite their awesome amounts of Imagination and Pretend both working overtime in their Fabrication Factory(s). Funny how it actually works!
There's an intellesting aspect of modest chamberings,shooting great boolits,in that the [bleep] things are FUN and if you ain't veddy veddy careful,you'll end up practicing on "accident" and not even know it. Read that again.
When was the last time that someone here rattled through 50 or 100 rounds of 25-06,270 or '06 ammo in an afternoon(let alone succesive afternoons) of leisurely pursuits?!? It don't happen,if only obviously,as hilariously lined out in the "experience","knowledge" and "results" offered up here on Threads just like his. Read that again. Spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial. Hint.
As a hilarious constant,Joe Average is over cartridged and under boolited,then frosts that melding by not shooting any of it....but luckily,it do not preclude their offering "advice". Funny schit!
Good talk.
Laffin'!
I'd mention sumptin' about the sliding Winding Scale and the 1:1 Ratio,allowing engagement distance to be scaled in accords to a given boolit/chambering,along with the impetus to apply same via Killer 22LR,as a means of FUN dot connection...but there's too many pointy heads for them facts to fly over and it'd be lost in mootitude.
Folks here is always lookin' for reasons NOT to shoot and that schit cracks me the [bleep] up.
Wow.
'goat,
Your haste to remain devoid a single [bleep] clue is rather impressive. Congratulations?!?
Cut to the chase and cite the 105's that've done you "wrong". Be sure to use as much Imagination and Pretend that it takes,to formulate those fabrications. mebbe say sumptin' about the rifle "particulars" too,if only to REALLY add to the [bleep] humor!
Someone who "knows" as "much" as you...is always gonna be best served by asking questions,not by giving "answers".
Not that I wish you to refrain the hilarity of corroborating your "experience". Kudos for trying to remove the boolit from the equation,if only to substantiate your "experience" and keep it "fair" for you. Hell...I doubt I've got much more than 3000 162A-Max left,setting on the shelf,but I never was much into [bleep] around. Just how much do you "shoot" in a GOOD year?!?
Laffin'!
Bless your heart.
4th,
I've squirted 3lbs of powder worth of Hornie's in the last 2 days. 75A-Max(bolts in 223,223AI and 22-250AI),75HPBT's(Krunchentickers),105A-Max/HPBT's(243AI/6-284) and 162's(7-08AI/Whizzum).
Trying to wear my newest Hummer out,as reaching to 550yds+ on the windshield is a [bleep] hoot in the wind.
Never been tough to cypher,who shoots and who don't.(grin) Just give 'em slack on the rope and let 'em start talking.
Laffin'!
'nm,
You AMAZINGLY stupid [bleep]...I realize you are doing your "best" and rest assured,that is THE funniest part.
Pardon me,while I relate Physics,if only to watch same fly over your pointy head. Laffin'!
The 180NPT you cite,at your velocity and factored at sealevel,if only for conversation,do the followin'. It arrives the scene(350yd line) with a breath taking 1946fps of impact velocity,1514 ft lbs of "energy" and drifts 12.8" in a full value 10mph breeze.
Now I'll BC you,if only to rub your nose in your Stupidity...not that you need any [bleep] help,given the goggles,haircut and attire...or them bitchin' mounts on that schit rifle. Laffin'!
155 Skinner squirted at a leisurely 3000fps '06 launch: it arrives the same scene(350yds) with 2327fps of impact velocity,1863 ft lbs of "energy" and but 8.4" of drift. For more conversation and if the 350yd 180NPT performance really horns you up,I'll happily extrapolate and you'll wanna remove them goggles,before they fog up. Laffin'!
The Skinner slows to 180NPT 350yd line impact velocity,at the 575yd line. So you get a 225yd free cookie there. It drifts the 180's 350yd value,at the 425yd line. It makes the 180NPT's 350yd "energy" at the 475yd line,so you get a free 125yds there. Long story short,a 180NPT terminal affects poke at the 350 line,extrapolates to a 575yd line Skinner poke upon same victim. You'll wanna read that again. Hint.
Now PLEASE say sumptin' about Sectional Density and mebbe quote 'goat and cite how them holler points don't dig in(through) Critters.
'Course ALL of them numerical and terminal avantages,come with less recoil to boot.
Keep it up,you're on [bleep] fire! Mebbe now mention how the 180NPT is heavier,but due to Nosler's typical "brilliance" it sports a .184G7 drag value and the Skinner a vastly superior .236 version of the same function. I know,I know...it ain't even "fair".
A 0.5BC+ projectile travelin' at 3000fps is called a 243Win. If it horns you up,to go to a long action and introduce a bunch more powder and increase recoil/noise to dupe same...
It's a fairly simple concept, except for those that think numbers are meaningless, then its like talking to a wall...
Killed this Red Hartebeest at 350 yds with a .30-06 and 180 gr Nosler Partitions at 2750 fps. Tell me how BC killed this animal?
AFAIC,it was shot placement and bullet performance.
A 0.5BC+ projectile travelin' at 3000fps is called a 243Win. If it horns you up,to go to a long action and introduce a bunch more powder and increase recoil/noise to dupe same...
It's a fairly simple concept, except for those that think numbers are meaningless, then its like talking to a wall...
Killed this Red Hartebeest at 350 yds with a .30-06 and 180 gr Nosler Partitions at 2750 fps. Tell me how BC killed this animal?
AFAIC,it was shot placement and bullet performance.
Nice job.
That's in essence what I was getting at with my comment on numbers not really mattering. Send a decent game bullet at decent speed from a reasonably accurate rifle, and point it in the right direction. Dead game. Simple as that. Some of these guy's ability to nitpick a conversation apart is nothing short of mother-in-law worthy.
The 270 embodies a really nice balance of factors which make it one of our top big game rounds. Lots of good hunting bullets specifically designed for it's velocity window. In the 270, it's not at all hard to come up with usable velocity without having to push the pressure envelope. Availability of components and good factory ammo just about everywhere. Factory rifles are generally throated correctly, and one need not worry about magazine length issues. Factory rifles in 270 Win also tend to shoot quite well, at least in my experience. All in a combo that won't kick too hard for most folks. What's not to love? The 270 Win is the cartridge many are compared to, but none quite match.
Back in the late 80's to early 90's my favorite magazine articles were something along the lines of "Match the bullet to the game" and that's how I do chose bullets today. It's all about a clean and quick kill.
I've used Bergers. An all around hunting bullet they are not.
I've had no issue with them. I've also had no issue with a 140 6.5 @ 2800+. This might be a marginally acceptable round to Boxer.
In any case, numbers matter as they indicate what a bullet is likely to do at distance. I also understand what long, heavy, high BC means at distance. However, it does not indicate the ability of the average shooter to put the "boolit" in the correct place at the distance the numbers show favoritism.
Destroy the landing gear of a critter at 300 yards with a 130 grain cup core 270 win and he dies right there.
Who is it that said something like "placement, boolit, headstamp" in that order? I get that.
Shot placement,bullet performance. Headstamp has diddly squat to do with killing an animal. Do you think a deer,elk,varmint etc.. knows what it is being shot with,cartridge wise?
PLEASE cite how many Articles you had to read,to become as AMAZINGLY [bleep] Stupid as you are? Were it the first one...because you had an "unfair" advantage goin' in,due your pointy head and crossed-eyes?!? Laffin'!
Hmmmmmm...let's see,there's (2) boxes of ammo on the shelf for a given chambering and Box "A" will match Box "B's" Terminal Affects mucccchhhhhh farther downrange,drift less and even recoil less,so due your uncanny "knowledge","experience" and their "results",you say "[bleep] it...I've been reading" so opt Box "B" as your "Trump Card". Now that is some SERIOUSLY [bleep] funny schit! You poor,poor,stupid [bleep].
Just WOW.
Now it'll come as a "surprise" ONLY to you,that Box "A" will also kill both cleaner and quicker...and that at ALL ranges. Funny how it actually works...and I mean [bleep] FUNNY.
Keep on sharing your "experience",because I'm crying I'm laughing sooooooooooo [bleep] hard.
Bless your heart,you incredible [bleep] dunce.
Now were I somehow "magically" enthralled with '06 launched 180NPT terminal and flight affects,I'd gun a 20" 308 and load Skinners soft and still be well ahead of the curve. Pun be intended.
Laffin'!
You CLUELESS "hard charging" Dumbfhuqqs are a riot!
'goat,
I'll feign my "surprise" that you didn't touch .243" 105's with a 10' [bleep] pole,other than to Whine about the things you've never seen,let alone done. Congratulations?!?
Fling a Hybrid 105 and get back to me. Hint. Then fling a 105'Max and Hornie HPBT and get back to me. Though of course,feel free to use as much Imagination and Pretend as you deem requisite in the interim,if only because those things are NEVER going to happen for you,due your abilities,means and comprehension. Laffin'!
I rather enjoy it,when you get to "thinking" and this pearl is a [bleep] Peach!:
"The 270 Win is the cartridge many are compared to, but none quite match."
FACT being,the 270 is easily slapped silly and only someone who "does" as "much" as you,could remain in the dark in regards to that constant. Who chews your food for you? Just...WOW.
Rather enjoyed picking a great boolit,so a cartridge can do great thangs,as being "nitpicking". An informed decision,never do not bear fruit and that'll only come as a "surprise" to you. Laffin'! You are simply at the mercy of your faculties,means and experience...which is of course a right proper recipe for perpetual hilarity. I'd like to thank you for being oblivious to that and to trudge along doing your "best",thinking you've a first [bleep] clue about anything. Laffin'!
Cheer up,Tasco and BSA sell alotta scopes too,so mebbe they are the "pick of the litter" too,due Joe Average's propensity to be dumber than [bleep],as you so poignantly correlate unknowingly due your "esteemed" acumen and the gross flaunting of all 17 of your IQ points. Laffin'!
The ease in which you talk out your ass,is rather impressive.
Pass the S/A,good boolits,trigger time and hold the Fluff.
Thank me later.
Hint.
Laffin'!
Good talk.
'nut,
I'd MUCH rather tote a S/A 6.5/140 of repute at 2800fps,than any/all things 270Win. That's alotta ass,in a tidy parcel,replete with veddy forgiving mild mannerisms. Light done right has no equal and I hear good thangs about S/S and them thar plasteeque handles.(grin)
A 270Win is easily bitch slapped in a S/A,if only to the chagrin of them who only shoot their mouths and Imaginations.(grin)
Adding drop,drift,noise and expense along with increased recoil...ain't much to swoon,unless of course you "do" as "much" as The Paper Hat Brigade.
Laffin'!
(Addendum: Holler Point Perspectives)
THE most epic Skinner pic of ALL [bleep] time.
Benji holding Humper's Gopher,from this Spring...Humper on the shutter.
I'd MUCH rather tote a S/A 6.5/140 of repute at 2800fps,than any/all things 270Win. That's alotta ass,in a tidy parcel,replete with veddy forgiving mild mannerisms. Light done right has no equal and I hear good thangs about S/S and them thar plasteeque handles.(grin)
A 270Win is easily bitch slapped in a S/A,if only to the chagrin of them who only shoot their mouths and Imaginations.(grin)
Adding drop,drift,noise and expense along with increased recoil...ain't much to swoon,unless of course you "do" as "much" as The Paper Hat Brigade.
Laffin'!
I "do" a bit more than average. May have earned my way out of the "Paper Hat Brigade". Cleaned out the spent primers after returning from spending more recently. Last time I cleaned up was just after Christmas last year. Here is what was in the catch. About 25% more in the bottom of my shop vac.
Decided to weigh this batch. 5 pounds 6 ounces. Removing consideration of the bag and figurin' a pound is 7000 grains, with a spent large rifle primer weighing in at ~4.3 grains, I figure I've burned (at least) little north of 8000 primers this year.
Of course I have several batches of dough that need to be put in the oven...
Maybe not as much as some shoot, but I'm bettin' a little more than "average". (Grin)
And I still love my 270s... Even though there are several combinations that leave the old standby in the dust at distance, given modern powders and bullets (as Boxer so eloquently imparts).
As badly as The Do Nothing Gang WISHES it to be...Pretend ain't real.(grin)
'nut,
I don't get to shoot nearly as much as you. Though I do shoot a whole [bleep] lot more than that.(grin) I tend to clean primers out daily,otherwise they'd be everywhere.
Cheer up,I've had more than quite a few 270's and am simply afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess. Now if all a gent has is a 270,then he may as well make the most outta it and that can ONLY be accomplished in one way...and dat's boolit selection. Hint.
The 270 is easily whooped,but a guy could do worse,so there's at least sumptin' the 270 Guys can tell themselves. Laffin'!
Not that I don't enjoy The Paper Hat Brigade tryin' to talk boolits and numbers sometimes mattering and other times not. Laffin'!
In overview,the 270 simply don't connect very many dots,but for the gent with a clue...it can certainly be pressed into service. "Surprisingly" all these windage adjustable rear/number don't matter/"hard charging" [bleep],are more than a touch loathe to muse particulars. That is an interestnig constant,on top of being funnier than [bleep]. Mainly because I do enjoy a good Hail Mary/Kentucky Windage yarn,"substantiated" by a range guesstimate,formulated via "all" them years of "practice". Funny schit!
Never not a hoot,to give them who "do" the least,the most slack on the rope and then simply watch the [bleep] Show.
EPIC humor +P+!
PS and by the way,beeg Reloading Day today and it's about to be a Fire Form Bonanza. If only for conversation,I often rattle through 1000+ rounds of boltgun fodder in a day...mainly because it is fun.
Hint.
'17,
Hardly an argument,more like a [bleep] Slapstick Side Show as these drooling dumbfhuqqs do their "best" and quantify it with their "experience","knowledge" and "results". One only needs to pay out slack on the rope and get ready to howl with [bleep] laughter!
Numerical designators tie into Physics rather nicely(understatement). Curiously enough...not all boolits is equal,despite the "best" efforts of the legion of Clueless Drooling Dumbfhuqqs trying feverishly,to quantify same. FUNNY how it actually works. Hint.
VERY easy to substantiate cause/affect and to roll in accordance to them facts. Read that again. Hint.
I suspect Imaginary Pretend Ignore is close and cats is gonna get tongues,as well as couches capturing kchunts.
Just sayin'.(grin)
'bore,
Do not confuse her with facts...if only because she's at the mercy of her abilities and honestly doing her "best".
Which is of course,the ONLY reason it is soooooooooo [bleep] funny!
Wow +P+!
'nm,
You've an unfair "advantage" in that you needn't play dumb,as it's innate to you. Though in fairness...you sure as [bleep] CAIN'T play smart. Funny how it actually works. Laffin'!
Here...I'll B.C. your incredibly STUPID ass,if only to rub your nose further in your Stupidity.
Your "Magical" and highly "esteemed" '06 Load(2750fps/180NPT),as per your quivering lips:
Now the BC side of the equation,ala S/A and a 22" spout via 7-08/162 at 2700fps.
Now please note that despite a shorter barrel,shorter case,less boolit weight,less powder,less expense and less recoil...that your Goat [bleep] '06 is a distant second [bleep] fiddle(understatement). PLEASE say that you don't understand and that BC doesn't matter,then quip sumptin' in regards to Sectional Density. Laffin'!
Mebbe interject the Secret Squirrel PM Trump Card and how "numbers don't matter"...at least (1) more time,before saying you "don't care" the millionth time.
Laffin'!
PS and by the way...all my 30-'06's are stamped "7-08".
Just sayin'.
Hint.
(Addendum: got to laughing too hard and forgot PG took all her marbles and ran home)
If only because I love the pic.
Skinner exit on a Gopher.
162A-Max exit on a Gopher.
With both Gophers sliding nicely into the All Time Book.
Just sayin' and here's hoping,you "think" that's it.
Laffin'!
Bless your heart.
'17,
I'm more than happy to pay the dues,in order to reap the rewards and realize....most ain't.
Happy Couching.
'nut,
I hardly shoot 1000 rounds every day,but them days ain't overly rare.
If it weren't fun...I'd simply not do it.
I live in a large Metropolitan Hub and it is a real effort to slate a slot at The Range,then there's Membership Dues,the commute,etc.
If only for conversation,I often rattle through 1000+ rounds of boltgun fodder in a day...mainly because it is fun.
Boxer,
My Math figurin' would roughly indicate that you shoot more in two weeks than I do in six months... roughly your 1000 rounds a day vs. my 1000 rounds each couple a weeks.
The 270 Win is the cartridge many are compared to, but none quite match.
A man after my own heart. I love the 7x57 and have a distinct liking for the 35 Whelen but the 270 was my first love starting in 1969...nothing's changed.
In what part of the animals death does BC contribute?
The part where the bullet ends up where it's supposed to more often (due to less drift)... and the part where more work is done on critter clockwork (due to greater retained energy). More BC is never a bad thing.... ever.... given adequate projectile integrity.
Not sure if you could find more ass and less drift at 500 yds, for a mere 40 grains of powder, than a 7/08 flinging 162s @ 2600+
When I shot the Red Hartebeest it was calm. Due believe that the 180 gr Nosler Partition did right well. When I shot,it fell,THEN we heard the bullet WHOP! Also it was 350 yds and not 500 yds.
In what part of the animals death does BC contribute?
The part where the bullet ends up where it's supposed to more often (due to less drift)... and the part where more work is done on critter clockwork (due to greater retained energy). More BC is never a bad thing.... ever.... given adequate projectile integrity.
Not sure if you could find more ass and less drift at 500 yds, for a mere 40 grains of powder, than a 7/08 flinging 162s @ 2600+
A 7mm-08 is a good one, and the 162s fly well. Many of us don�t want to use or have had bad experiences with Amaxs, though, or simply cannot find them.
The 3912 average was with 63grs of RL17. That's under book max, but getting more powder in the case may have been a chore..
Funny, but the recoil was noticeably less with the 85.
That�s what I noticed about the 85s, as well.
I loaded some 85s down somewhat with RE15. Seeing as they are built for the 6.8 SPC, figured they would work well slowed down - and they do. Started at 3100 they kill stuff just fine, and kick like a 243. Makes for an excellent starter rifle that a kid can grow into.
I call my hunting buddy "Fuddy-Duddy". He is afraid of nose-cones and all-copper bullets. He shoots Partitions... his dad goes to the Nosler store to get them. Fuddy-Duddy can still bang steel at 500-600y with his dotz though.
His son and I have tried talking him into a plastic-tipped bullet and turrets, but he'd need his reading glasses to read the scale on the turret!
At 350 the 180gr has more speed, less drop, less drift and the same amount of ass as the 260gr. BC can even win in a 30-06.......
So, based on the numbers, the 30/06 is the killing equivalent of the 375 H&H? I mean it will make as big a wound channel, tear up as much muscle and bone and be as effective on heavy game? Based on the numbers? Is that what this means?
This schit is funny and I enjoy the haste folks are in...to get in over their pointy heads.
Poor poor [bleep] stupid 'nm couldn't choose a boolit to save her soul and PG gets all the "bad" A-Max,though she has never even shot one. EPIC [bleep] humor!
The only thing this Thread is missing is a Jeff-O chart,quantifying all the boolits she's never seen,let alone used and some more guesses on how they do on flesh/bone.
I do wonder who dresses these stupid [bleep] and chews their food for them?!?
makes my pointy head wonder what spanker would use in a 7-08 for close range venison chops,where the range probably wont be over 150,at least hasn't been yet in 40 years. local favorites include 140 hornie,but I m looking to try the 120 nose cone. shiett,30-30 been working for years ,so I hear anyway ,270 would probably work ok,too,in a pinch. if I had a la.
I bought the 7-08 Montucky last year. I was slow on the uptake and failed to squirrel the 162gr AMAX so I've been playing with 120gr bullets until they are online again.
Last year I got tag soup for elk, but shot a blacktail at ~20 yards in the neck with 120gr TTSX. Muzzle velocity was 3000 fps. I was surprised that there was little if any bloodshot meat.
I spent a lot of years with just the .30-30, .32 Special, .35 Remington, and .45-70. BC's were terrible but stuff still died quick. But then northeastern hunting is a close range game normally. I only ever remember two kills I made that were beyond .45-70 range, a whitetail at 300 and a Pronghorn at 250. Sometimes I think about just getting rid of everything and getting another .45-70 and being done with it. It can take everything in North America inside of 200 yards and I don't much care to shoot further than that anyway.
I rather love the 223AI on Venison to 500yds+ and I hear it do nice thangs up close too. Have got a hunch,that I've prolly shot a 7-08 too. Have even suffered Turdy-Turdies,as well as [bleep] 270's to boot.
The ONLY way to maximize any/all chamberings,is due boolit selection.
Now lemme fuel your Imagination and connect some more dots.
Hint.
4th,
75A-Max at 15yds via Samtucky,last Fall. Another boolit poor poor stupid [bleep] PG has never shot,yet feels "experienced" enough to comment upon.
Hell,I mighta even shot a 120X in a 7-08 once.(grin)
500yd++ Holler Point(105Hornie HPBT) from last Fall and yet another that PG has never shot,but feels "experienced" enough to comment upon.
Luckily Imagination and Pretend are free,so she can "contribute".(grin)
dooshmike,
A 45-70 is a series of heavy compromises,that bears little fruit. That as a function of it's case design,boolit designs and the very platforms in which it is housed. Piss poor trade of performance to recoil,if only for starters.
Noone likes 15yd broadsides more than I,but there's just sumptin' soothin' about light done right,flingin' great boolits. Conjoin said handy parcel with S/S and a synthetic handle of repute and if you ain't careful...you'll be having FUN and dreaming up fresh reasons to go shoot even more. With that increase in round count,"luck" grows in non-lineal fashion and before you know it,you's connectin' dots on "accident".
When is the last time you rattled through 500+ rounds of 45-70 in a day?!?(grin)
Killing schit is beyond easy,if you wish it to be and such things interest me. Fact is...it always has.
Hint.
Noone ever got good with a rifle,by talkin' about it and the one thing these Threads all have in common,is that when it's all said and done,there's going to have been a [bleep] of a lot more said...than done.
My crummy is warmin' up now and there's better than a dozen rifles in it.(grin)
I'm realizing that rifles aren't that different than the stock market. Some hold onto traditional beliefs and are nostalgic over certain rifles and chamberings... like Fundamental Traders. Others just want numbers and data, and don't care about nostalgia or tradition. The numbers and data tell them everything they need to know. These are the Technical Traders. I find myself getting nostalgic at times, but I want data... show me the numbers
A leever in a traditional chambering like 45-70 or 30-30 would do great in the jungle of the coastrange. But as you well know, there are openings, clearcuts, and opportunities to shoot from one finger to the other. The fella that limits himself/herself to a leever leaves all that opportunity behind. There really is no downside to a bolt action in the jungle as far as I can tell.
In terms of the 270... I think its nostalgia. Plus it works. And its not a bad choice for Joe-average. Its not the best choice for the Technical Looney though. Ok for the Fundamental/Nostalgic/Traditional looney. The Technician will seek more.
Regarding Goat, I got to say Billy is an experienced and reasonable fella. Heads and shoulders above most at the 'Fire. He's got a reason for not liking AMAX bullets and I'd like to hear why. I know that you, Jordan, Tanner, and others have had good luck with them among many others. The idea that AMAX bullets are not suitable for hunting has been de-bunked over and over, but I haven't used them myself, yet.
PS - Montucky 223 is next on the list, with Super Fixt Pfukker and 75gr AMAXes. Low cost in terms of recoil and components. For me, the S/A Montana design is off the charts in terms of fit, weight, and features. I was getting ahead of myself with other chamberings but you're right... 223/223AI is what I need. Thanks for that advice awhile back.
Off to shoot 85 grainers... unfortunately they are attached to carbon. Drew "Unsuccesful" for my elk season this year and will be flinging projectiles Indian-style.
Everyone looks at things differently and I enjoy the "numbers don't matter" Faction,as they've an uncanny knack for quantifying same,with their "results".(grin) I never was one to [bleep] around or linger and results have always interested me,which is why I never could correlate all boolits being "equal"...nor close.
Joe Average is always gonna be best served with a 223 or a 308,simply because great ammo abounds,which is a reiteration of boolits mattering more than headstamps. There's been bajillions of R&D spent in regards to those (2) rounds and due that,there are lotsa exceptional boolits chambered for them. That's how dots reliably get connected.
The 270 can be made to do nice thangs,when boolits is gived a thunk,like a myriad of other chamberings. It's bore sizing has long been maligned by the Makers,but dat is changing and it's better now,than ever. It's just too easy to whoop it's ass in a short action,so there's no real point in suffering it's suck...unless one of course is paying back a bet,sorely lost. Laffin'!
I've killed alotta schit underneath guys,armed with Levers,Self Shuckers and Trombones(as well about any bolt you can think of). That'd be a gross understatement of epic proportions.(grin) Never was no good at being greedy and always happy to let someone have first crack or first cast at sumptin' good. Never liked to see good schit get away,so always was(am) at ease in finishing things. My first and original MAGNIFICENT Seven(7-08),was the bane of pards for years and years...because I flat mowed schit down with it and as it sets today,it's on it's 6th barrel. I shot the Old Gal a touch much and it mighta just inspired similar chambered purchases,for more than a whole schit load of folks,who thought they was gonna show me sumptin'.(grin)
I've mebbe/prolly stepped in some Coast Country and knowed from Day One,that a light done right boltgun had no equal,or close. Them constants,remain constant to this day and the forecast ain't fixed to change,if only to the chagrin of Window Licker everywhere.
Goat tries and is doing the best she can,with what incredibly little she's got to work with. I enjoy her Imagination and Pretend quite a bit,due the inherent humor of her clueless bufoonery. Funny schit! There's little danger of her shooting much of anything,but I do enjoy the guffaws of her Imagined "trevails". Oh I prolly live in the highest density of A-Max's per capita,of ANYwhere in the [bleep] World.(grin) I've a "hunch",that I'm afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess in their regards and that of a whole [bleep] schit load of other boolits to boot. Hint.
Been shooting all day and Lee-Lu was gunning his 3rd Times THE Charm Montucky 223AI. He's squirting F/F 50V-Max at 3300fps and with 80MOA left in the 6x MD Fixed [bleep]'s erector from a 225yd zero,it'll reach a spell. Had him dump over 1000 MOA through the erector between pokes,as a means of quantifying erector travel integrity and it'd touch boolit holes at the 100yd line. Mirage was a [bleep] kchunt and the wind sporty,but he gunned a 375yd trio on paper,that noone would believe. It'll prolly do nice thangs,once stoked with formed hulls and 75A-Max.(grin) I've 42.7 mils available on my Samtucky,from a 225yd zero with this batcha 75A-Max at 2930fps...so he's HATIN' forming 50's,especially in this wind. Good times!
It's all about the contour and numbers don't matter.
Laffin'!
REALLY enjoyed poor poor [bleep] stupid 'nm trying to talk boolits too,as she was trying not to play dumb...but couldn't.(grin)
Bless their hearts.
Time to grab a coupla different rifles,load a smidge,grab a bite and go shoot again...then glass Bucks until dark.
It's rough.(grin)
(Addendum: for pics)
Wadded up targets and tossed 'em the bed of my crummy and remembered they was still there,so gunned a coupla frames...if only for conversation.
There was 1000++ MOA wracked on the erector,between the trio of pokes touching,in the lower cluster. Stretched paper at 100,to check tracking and what was gonna transpire via gross erector abuse. Total travel up/down is better than 300MOA. Hint.
Lapooey hulls and 50gr Zombie kiss. This FF batch were 1MOA higher than the last,due a powder swap,so it printed that much higher at the100yd line. It ain't now. Hint.(grin)
My Samtucky with 70MOA inclination and the aforementioned 42.7 Mils of erector travel on tap.
Fair to middlin' 375yd cluster,given the mirage and wind(right to left)...and "lowly" 6x glass.
As mentioned prior,it'll prolly do nice thangs with formed cases and 75's.(grin)
I almost don't want to read or look at these 3x-tucky or Samtucky reports. Just adds fuel to the desire. I can tell by the paper that you guys were wringing things. He's got to be more than thrilled with the 375y group. And form loads?!
What powder are you using for the final loads?
Junior and I went to the hills today. Didn't bust any caps. He got to spend more time behind the wheel of the 3/4-ton. He's only 7 years old so he's not ready for Baja 1000, but getting better at keeping it between the ditches
We also shot our bows. I hate the ffukking release and training wheels. Tempted to skip archery and do general rifle bull elk on the coast.
It was a good time to lean on the Fixed [bleep]'s erector and really see WTF...as the rifle/ammo had been proven. So the huge swings were a great way to bolster confidence,which is the warmest of fuzzies. I've been flogging on all of mine right proper and none of 'em have been suspect,but a guy likes to see such huge inputs bear fruit. Gunned it out to the 1050yd line and 50gr FF Zombies required more than a leetle Engleesh in Today's wind.(grin) Had a blast. The Montucky 223 is simply one hell of a [bleep] platform and I've a couple/few boltguns to compare/contrast. [bleep] things are straight up Amazin'.
He's stocked up on BLC-2,which is of course a burning rate neighbor of '335,so nice thangs will reliably happen as defaults. I'm on the last of my GOOD '2200 stash(touch slower than '335) and I've shot away 127 of the 128 pounds I had. Am well invested in '335 myself,so ain't frettin' much.
Had to put a new clutch in Sister's crummy the other day,as it's got 160,000+ miles and she's teaching all the neighbor kids to drive a stick and it wears 33-10.50's with stock gears...so it was a matter of time before someone got the honor.
I don't much miss The Rifle Elk Circus,but it was hardly a feat to have one tied to a tree,when one's bidness was killing trees.(grin) Nice to have that long Archery Season and The Rut,though chasing them in the heat is a drag. I'm prolly done for good on Archery,other than now and again to give someone a reminder on how I haven't forgot how to shoot a bow. I've stuck alotta arrows,in alotta fish and for some reason,that don't ever get old.(grin)
Next time home,'Buggy should have his Hartucky back from the Plumber,wearing a 1-8" length/contour dupe in 223AI. Thinkin' it'll be an epic 223AI Montucky Rut this year.
Glad to hear about H335 since it's been showing up locally.
You ain't kidding about coast-bull-rifle season being a circus. I'll go archery Snake River this year and probably shuttle the younger fellas in the coastrange for general rifle.
This is a favorite shooting area on the coast, and pics don't do it justice. I know you've trounced around this stuff, but figured I'd let others see where jungle and wide-open exist at the same time. This terrain kicks my ass... steep+, loose, and rugged. Some high canopies mixed in, and opportunities to shoot as far as you can see at times. Probably not the best place for a traditional leever.
FFukkers that work the timber and call this their office are some tough SOB's... like one convoluted hell hole.
No, but what is the definition of a "target bullet"? What do you think that the difference is between a "target" copper jacketed, lead cored, plastic tipped AMAX, and a "hunting" copper jacketed, lead cored, plastic tipped SST?
Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...
Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
That was really "compelling" Testimony and I rather enjoyed the hilarity. Thanks!
Now as to last Season alone,I only know of (5) Bull Moose killed with 162's and all curiously enough,by 280AI's. The Caribou Bull tally was right at 30,with the same boolit. A dozen Bull Elk with the same boolit,though in fairness,a coupla chamberings but the 280AI had the most. The 162 was used on better than 10 Bears and a schit load of Deer.
The 6.5 140/123 on Bulls,Bucks and Bears in a surprising smattering of chamberings.
The 105'Max toppled Caribou,Elk,Bear and Deer. 243AI having the greatest percentage of use,as chamberings go.
The 75'Max was good for a schit load of Deer,several Bears and a coupla Dall Sheep. 223/223AI/22-250AI
All results were beyond positive(except for the victims) and if I had to speculate,I'd say that all them boolits will be very well represented this Season. Hint. There's also alotta new builds that've been received and gents are eager to spill blood with 'em,so it'll be a goodly smattering of wares counting coup this go 'round. that being said,undoubtedly and as per always...the 162 will be launched more often than not. Funny how it actually works and I mean FUNNY!
Good talk,always a hoot getting your "experience" and feedback.
Laffin'!
'nm,
Does Stupidity hurt?!? Figured to give you a question you could answer in the first hand,if only for a [bleep] change. laffin'!
Keep doing your "best"...if only because it is funnier than [bleep].
Bless your heart.
'sus,
"Curiously" enough,ALL Arms Makers have strict warnings about using Handloads and that'll certainly be more than enough to get 'nm Whining all over again. Laffin'!
The only thing she shoots is her mouth and Imagination and she's quick to back same up. Laffin'!
Them who do the least,reliably Whine the most and it's never not hilarious to grant 'em all the slack on the rope,they "think" they can [bleep] handle and then watch the Show.
Seriously funny [bleep] schit!
gee',
It's a hoot,that of all the folks you are quick to quote...it's never you. The Texas Version of everything,is simply [bleep] hilarious!
One might note that the change in suggested use coincided with the push of certain bullets being used by the military and police...... And that'd not be a guess.
Again I don't get why some think that "hunting" bullets get an extra sprinkling of "killing pixie dust"......
No, but what is the definition of a "target bullet"? What do you think that the difference is between a "target" copper jacketed, lead cored, plastic tipped AMAX, and a "hunting" copper jacketed, lead cored, plastic tipped SST?
Interesting comparison, because the SST is the most disappointing "hunting" bullet I've run across. Simply abysmal performance. Supposedly they've been toughened up recently, though.
No, but what is the definition of a "target bullet"? What do you think that the difference is between a "target" copper jacketed, lead cored, plastic tipped AMAX, and a "hunting" copper jacketed, lead cored, plastic tipped SST?
Interesting comparison, because the SST is the most disappointing "hunting" bullet I've run across. Simply abysmal performance. Supposedly they've been toughened up recently, though.
Loaded the SST's in a 300 WSM back around 2005. Reminded me of the frangible nature of a varmint bullet. Rather explosive IIRC. Have not loaded them since.
Although my bullet of choice has become the Nosler Accubond, I have complete confidence in Game Kings used appropriately.
This Winchester Model 70 Supergrade in 300 WSM racked up 26 one shot kills, DRT, on hogs deer and turkey, using 150 gr. Sierra Spitzers, MV, +/- 3,250 fps.
I ate much venison collected by my late father using Game Kings, all one bullet for each deer. Pop could shoot, he placed high or won in a bunch of small bore matches back in the day.
30-06, 52.3 gr. IMR4064, 150 Sierra GK, CCI200, RP brass
I remember the load since I put most of them together.
I don't have time for this frivolity�I must go now and do some honest-to-god shooter stuff�like reloading�.with Hornady bullets!
Your Mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Go away or I shall be forced to taunt you again!
I just came in from the shop. I was stuffing 168 grain Hornadys into some 308 brass on top of IMR4895. Runout .002" or less, for a varmint barrel Rem 700 topped with a 6x42AO Leupold.
the one year I used an sst bullet, it worked great. 30-06,150 @ 2700 ,maybe 100 yards, broadside doe,DRT,took all the arteries off the top of the heart,nice and clean. passed on through.
the one year I used an sst bullet, it worked great. 30-06,150 @ 2700 ,maybe 100 yards, broadside doe,DRT,took all the arteries off the top of the heart,nice and clean. passed on through.
Good on ya'.
The twenty years or so and several hundred animals on which I've used Nosler Ballistic Tips, Partitions and Accubonds, Barnes X, Barnes XLC, Triple Shocks and Game Kings, they worked fine also.
105 Amax blew up on a deer shoulder with no penetration to vitals at ~150 yards, fired from 6mm Remington.
Local friend had a similar thing happen with 162 Amax fired from a 280 on a deer. No penetration to vitals.
Several others on the 'Fire have noted failures to penetrate from Amaxs as well.
Too many good game bullets out there to deal with a maybe bullet for hunting. I'll sure use 'em for other stuff, but not big game.
Billy,
I'm glad you relayed your findings. I haven't had any bullet failures, but haven't killed that many animals. I know of 3 bullet failures in the past year and none were match bullets.
My co-worker shot a doe last year with a 140gr NAB from a 7RM. Knocked it to the ground. When he went to recover the deer, it jumped up and ran. Scared the crap out of him as he thought it was dead . Luckily he was able to shoot it as it was running away. First shot blew-up like you described with no penetration to vitals.
His dad had the same experience with an antelope last year. Same 140gr Accubond, same rifle. Maybe a bad batch from Nosler? They are huge fans of the SST, go figure! You can't give them any amount of Accubonds now.
Also last year, my buddy shot a moose with a 150gr Scirocco (factory Rem Premier). He said the bull went down under a tree and just laid there. Buddy thought it was going to die when his daughter said, "It's getting away!". Dropped it with his 7RM. The first bullet hit bone and then veered off at an extreme angle not hitting anything vital. Basically stunned the bull, like the doe in the first example. Now you can't give him any amount of premium/bonded bullets. He's going back to Core-Lokts and will probably never change.
All the shots above were broadside at relatively close range (no longrange shots).
I suspect that weird things can happen when little metal projectiles are moving really fast.
270 Win with 150g SSTs doing MV around 2970fps has worked real good for me on a hundred or so feral pigs, some goats and sundry others including one solitary fallow buck. I've never had a blowup.
Been using boring old PMC soft points in that rifle for a year now because there were 400 of them virtually being given away at a sporting good store I wandered into. Not sexy but they actually work too.
Sorry if my round count doesn't sound high enough by the way.
Don't the water in toilet bowls swirl clockwise below the equator? Perhaps your location in regards to the earth's axis has an effect on the way SST's impact, and make's em fly flat out like a lizard drinkin', there "down under"
Best,
GWB
PS: one of my fav's.....
A quite rich Englishman and his wife are touring Australia in a hired limousine. The wife happens to look out the window and sees an Aussie doing something with a kangaroo. She asks her husband:" Dear,is that man doing something indecent with that animal?"
The Englishman looks and is appalled. He tells his wife to look away. He also tells her that he will register a stern complaint with the 5 star hotel they are registered at.
They arrive at the hotel. As they get out of the limousine, they both see a one legged man wanking off on the steps. The English couple are now truly appalled.
The Englishman storms to the hotel desk and says:" This is truly an awful country. My wife and I just saw a man performing sex with a kangaroo -and now we see a one legged man masturbating on the steps of your hotel! What do you have to say about this?"
The Aussie desk clerk says: " "Well, mate, you can't expect a one legged man to get his own kangaroo, can you?"
My co-worker shot a doe last year with a 140gr NAB from a 7RM. Knocked it to the ground. When he went to recover the deer, it jumped up and ran. Scared the crap out of him as he thought it was dead . Luckily he was able to shoot it as it was running away. First shot blew-up like you described with no penetration to vitals.
His dad had the same experience with an antelope last year. Same 140gr Accubond, same rifle. Maybe a bad batch from Nosler? They are huge fans of the SST, go figure! You can't give them any amount of Accubonds now.
Also last year, my buddy shot a moose with a 150gr Scirocco (factory Rem Premier). He said the bull went down under a tree and just laid there. Buddy thought it was going to die when his daughter said, "It's getting away!". Dropped it with his 7RM. The first bullet hit bone and then veered off at an extreme angle not hitting anything vital. Basically stunned the bull, like the doe in the first example. Now you can't give him any amount of premium/bonded bullets. He's going back to Core-Lokts and will probably never change.
All the shots above were broadside at relatively close range (no longrange shots).
I suspect that weird things can happen when little metal projectiles are moving really fast.
You're nipping at the crux of the problem. Folks get so enamored of LR performance they forget what happens when more fragile,lighter jacketed bullets impact heavy game(and sometimes light game)) at magnum velocity.Then they blame the bullet when it was the application that was wrong.
The 140 AB that does well at 300+ yards from a 7mm magnum may not do so good at close range where velocity is high....pretty certain a 160 AB would have done much better.
In the 7mm Rem Mag, and dealing with a bull moose at close range(any range for that matter) a 150 SS II would not make my short list.
Don't the water in toilet bowls swirl clockwise below the equator? Perhaps your location in regards to the earth's axis has an effect on the way SST's impact, and make's em fly flat out like a lizard drinkin', there "down under"
Best,
GWB
PS: one of my fav's.....
A quite rich Englishman and his wife are touring Australia in a hired limousine. The wife happens to look out the window and sees an Aussie doing something with a kangaroo. She asks her husband:" Dear,is that man doing something indecent with that animal?"
The Englishman looks and is appalled. He tells his wife to look away. He also tells her that he will register a stern complaint with the 5 star hotel they are registered at.
They arrive at the hotel. As they get out of the limousine, they both see a one legged man wanking off on the steps. The English couple are now truly appalled.
The Englishman storms to the hotel desk and says:" This is truly an awful country. My wife and I just saw a man performing sex with a kangaroo -and now we see a one legged man masturbating on the steps of your hotel! What do you have to say about this?"
The Aussie desk clerk says: " "Well, mate, you can't expect a one legged man to get his own kangaroo, can you?"
Yep and its a true story.
The good news is that for us two legged blokes, we can cover the ground a bit quicker and don't have to put up with an ugly roo!
You're nipping at the crux of the problem. Folks get so enamored of LR performance they forget what happens when more fragile,lighter jacketed bullets impact heavy game(and sometimes light game)) at magnum velocity.Then they blame the bullet when it was the application that was wrong.
The 140 AB that does well at 300+ yards from a 7mm magnum may not do so good at close range where velocity is high....pretty certain a 160 AB would have done much better.
In the 7mm Rem Mag, and dealing with a bull moose at close range(any range for that matter) a 150 SS II would not make my short list.
I believe there was some chatter about that subject and Accubond Long Range bullets as well.
140 NAB.... ain't exactly a 'LR' load.... that's pretty much your standard "3 inches high at 100, and I can hold on fur to 500!" kind of load you see stuffed in rifles from Maine to Montucky.
I've stated quite qlearly... more BC ain't bad, given adequate projectile integrity for intended purpose. It ain't hard to kill deer, or antelope, or black bears, or 'bou.... so bullets don't need to be built as stout. Add in the fact that most LR bullets are both heavy for caliber, and launched sub-3000 fps... and it doesn't take a whole lotta bullet to get the job done.
Now if we're talking bull elk/moose.... or something that could shred me/stomp me to death.... I'm thinking my requirements will be a bit different. I don't see any of the above as a LR proposition... so we agree there... pass the TTSX in that case.
You're nipping at the crux of the problem. Folks get so enamored of LR performance they forget what happens when more fragile,lighter jacketed bullets impact heavy game(and sometimes light game)) at magnum velocity.Then they blame the bullet when it was the application that was wrong.
The 140 AB that does well at 300+ yards from a 7mm magnum may not do so good at close range where velocity is high....pretty certain a 160 AB would have done much better.
In the 7mm Rem Mag, and dealing with a bull moose at close range(any range for that matter) a 150 SS II would not make my short list.
I believe there was some chatter about that subject and Accubond Long Range bullets as well.
16B - I've seen the same reports about the LRAB. Not so much on the NAB though.
Bob - The fellas that had the 140gr NAB blow-up are going back to the 139gr SST as they've had good performance with that bullet from the 7RM. I thought the SST would be "softer" and more explosive than the NAB.
The fella that shot the moose with the 150gr SS II has killed a pile of deer, elk, and moose with the 150gr Core-Lokt and is going back to that ammo. I thought the SS II was a "harder" bullet than the CL, and harder than most bonded bullets? Either way, he says moose are a lot easier to kill than elk and has never had a problem with the 150gr CL.
So are we all in agreement the OP needs to go 270 in a 70 with 130 GKs unless he wants to kill rocks with a 375 and Hornadys
I have to admit, the one time I shot a whitetail with a .270 and 130 GK's the reaction was impressive. 100 yards, quartering away, hit just behind the near shoulder. Stood straight up on his hind legs, then collapse in a heap. The heart was more or less intact, but it fell out of the chest when opened.
No exit, no core found, just the jacket against the far side of the hide. The bullet didn't "fail" since the deer died, but I probably won't use one of them again. At least, not out of the mighty Ruger #1 .270
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. Luckily he was able to shoot it as it was running away. First shot blew-up like you described with no penetration to vitals.