[quote=Mule Deer Of course, they still have to hit the birds[/quote]

And that is the crux of the matter. The shot type is a hardware fix for a software problem. If the shooter cannot hit the bird, it does not matter what is used. In the days of lead shot a number of birds were lost for the same reasons as they are lost today- mainly poor shooting. I believe it was Bob Brister who initially brought this up but It could have been Tom Roster. If one has the skill and knowledge to consistantly put the densest part of the pattern on the bird and an appropriate size shot and choke is used for the range, then the bird will be killed.

The issue, in my eyes, is the typical shooter can't consistently hit the bird with the densest part of the pattern. That is borne out but the number of broken winged birds and "gut shot" birds that one sees brought down by typical shooters regardless of range. Centeing the pattern on the bird will lead to the half dozen or so pellets hitting the bird and providing they are in the front half, the bird will be killed.

I push competition as the scorecard doesn't lie and one can't fudge their results with a selective memory. To make honest progress honesty is needed in marking results and that is best done on paper. Plus, a competitive event provides access to more accomplished shooters who may be able to provide help in overcoming problems. One is not likely to get this shooting a couple rounds of trap or "pasture clays" with their buddies.

I agree that many shooters do not pick the best shells for the purpose but that has always been the case and always will. The most expensive shells are not necessarily the best nor are the lesser priced ones poor. It takes some time and money at the patterning board as well as use on game to determine what will work well. The heavier than steel shot do indeed leave a more visible affect when they hit the target but do not necessarily kill better. I have seen their effects from my own use as well as watching many more rounds fired by others. I use the other options over steel in everything less then 12 ga due to payload and velocity but for the 12 and 10 ga I am satisfied with steel.

I hope this doesn't sound snarky, if so I didn't mean to be so. I just approach this problem from a different direction. I think skill trumps equipment in the overall scheme of things though you would be hard pressed to believe this if you looked through my shooting equipment. I also hope it is not too disjointed as I am trying to get this done at work and duty keeps pulling me away.