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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4 |
Oh I think we all get that. As they say different strokes for different folks.
I for one thought it was a spectacular effort and display. I will give credit, where it's due. As an example; maybe someone is unable to get the Barnes bullet to shoot properly, but wants deep penetration. Now just look at his data, he has already given you a starting point, and options.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670 |
Just another thought.
1. FMJ/solids.
2. Archery/bow & arrow, cross bow.
Arrows usually come with steel points or tips of a large variety of different blade configurations. The cunning sales/marketing strategists offer up a whole range of different shapes and sizes.
1. So how does a FMJ perform ? Take a .264 caliber and add 50% - .132 = .369 caliber. If you want a .369 caliber hole just shoot a .375 caliber solid. No expansion, same results.
2. A steel tipped arrow doesn't expand or mushroom. It just slices and cuts and doesn't really do so good on bone. The amount of energy, and velocity, produced by an arrow compared to a bullet is dismally small. 40 yards is about optimum shooting distance.
So where can we go with this dissertation. Basically around in circles. Each separate method of hunting has it's pro's and cons and those are certainly in conflict and contradiction, philosophically, from one concept/method to another.
The archer presumably does it to prove his stealth, cunning and hunting skills. Then what about the hand gun shooter/hunter. He/she/they will equip a powerful large caliber .44 S&W Magnum or .454 Casul or a .45 Colt Ruger Bisley with a scope. Bullet expansion isn't really pertinent.
Is there a point to all of this. Probably not much. There are 9 ways to ski a cat and 99 ways to dispatch wild game.
Last edited by William_E_Tibbe; 08/04/15.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I don't know how it's possible NOT to pay attention to how bullets perform once they impact.
They are the only thing that ever come in contact with the animal.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,585 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,585 Likes: 17 |
My 6.5 Creedmoor should arrive at my FFL today. I have been wondering which bullet to use. I have always been a Nosler man and normally a Partition man. I have never hand loaded the first Barnes. I may very well give them a shot.
I have to say though that I am ignorant about the rings/grooves/cannelure. Do I need to seat to one of them and crimp?
Steve thanks for taking time out to share this with us. I know it took a lot of work. If you tested a Nosler E-Tip 120 I missed it. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the Barnes since they are of similar unleaded construction.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3 |
Wow! Great bunch of pictures here.. I have some of the 140 AB, 130 AB and 140 PT from my 264 Win Mag. Can't really see much difference in the 140 AB started much faster.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,867
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,867 |
William_E_Tibbe, Just another thought.
1. FMJ/solids.
2. Archery/bow & arrow, cross bow.
Arrows usually come with steel points or tips of a large variety of different blade configurations. The cunning sales/marketing strategists offer up a whole range of different shapes and sizes.
1. So how does a FMJ perform ? Take a .264 caliber and add 50% - .132 = .369 caliber. If you want a .369 caliber hole just shoot a .375 caliber solid. No expansion, same results.
2. A steel tipped arrow doesn't expand or mushroom. It just slices and cuts and doesn't really do so good on bone. The amount of energy, and velocity, produced by an arrow compared to a bullet is dismally small. 40 yards is about optimum shooting distance.
So where can we go with this dissertation. Basically around in circles. Each separate method of hunting has it's pro's and cons and those are certainly in conflict and contradiction, philosophically, from one concept/method to another.
The archer presumably does it to prove his stealth, cunning and hunting skills. Then what about the hand gun shooter/hunter. He/she/they will equip a powerful large caliber .44 S&W Magnum or .454 Casul or a .45 Colt Ruger Bisley with a scope. Bullet expansion isn't really pertinent.
Is there a point to all of this. Probably not much. There are 9 ways to ski a cat and 99 ways to dispatch wild game. Here's another thought. I don't agree with most of this post.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
Barnes 120gr TTSXAverage Penetration (inches): 17.2 Average Weight Retained (grain): 119.2 Average Weight Retained (%): 99.3 Average Expansion (inches): 0.547 What's not to like here? As uniform as they get, and basically the only weight loss is the tip. I'd like to see them launched at about 3300fps and see the results. Thanks for all the work Steve. Couldn't catch the bullet, but this is what a 120 E-Tip (pretty close to the 120 TTSX), leaving the muzzle at 3,450, will do to a hog's heart, a 180 pound sow at 185 yds. DF
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3 |
Great picture DF!! I haven't tried anything lighter than 130 in my 264... Yet.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
That was out of a 26 Nos. With monometals, light and fast seems to be the ticket. The only reason I'd go with monometal 130's in the 26 Nos would be bigger critters.
But for elk, etc, I'd probably be shooting 168 TTSX's in my .300 WM, not that a 130 TTSX out of the 26 Nos wouldn't bust one.
I guess I'm too old fashioned...
DF
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3 |
I set up my 264 with 140 AB's at 3180 for elk. He never got to hunt, but I can't see how that would have been bad in anyway for elk. It is a flat shooting load and penetrates very well in my testing. Almost mimics the 300 RUM with 200 AB's with a little less energy of course.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
Yeah, that would work.
140 NAB's in the 26 Nos do very well, too.
I just got off on the monometals because they shot so well at hypervel. and I wasn't worried about them blowing up.
DF
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Part one in the opening thread...
Bump for some great R&D
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,601
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,601 |
Excellent work. A BIG "Thank you".
Confirms what I have been seeing out of my 260 loaded with 140 NABs. They've performed well for me.
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,162 Likes: 3 |
Barnes 120gr TTSXAverage Penetration (inches): 17.2 Average Weight Retained (grain): 119.2 Average Weight Retained (%): 99.3 Average Expansion (inches): 0.547 What's not to like here? As uniform as they get, and basically the only weight loss is the tip. I'd like to see them launched at about 3300fps and see the results. Thanks for all the work Steve. Don't have the bullet, it kept going. Here's the hog, but at 3,450 fps out of a 26 Nosler. DF
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,087 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,087 Likes: 5 |
No, 140gr AB only. I can't imagine the results being much different. Bumped - hoping that you re-upload the images of your tests on a new ( https://postimages.org/)? site. GR
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