Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LR Hunting - Why?

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I am not going to get into the bashing here....

I guess I just fail to understand the motivation of long range hunting.
When I here someone say that shooting from a longer distance makes it more sporting, to me means they are intentionally increasing the difficulty and therefore increasing the risk of not making the perfect hit.
Now, I have seen pictures and information on how well some of the people on here can shoot and practice with hundreds of rounds a year along with developing their own loads etc. I do not want to take anything away from that.
I just don't understand why someone would intentionally increase the chances of missing or wounding an animal in order to make it more difficult or sporting.

I may have misunderstood and if I have would appreciate a better explanation.

I personally feel that if you want to see how far you can shoot....shoot at a target that doesn't have the chance to walk away with a limp.

Guys,

I feel terrible for being the architect of resentment - I was just interested in understanding how the equipment was used and to what purpose. However, the morality or otherwise of hunting only serves to hand a walk-over victory to the likes of the League Against Cruel Sports and PETA, so I would ask everyone to forge a common front and simply agree to disagree, please.

I've shot service rifles to half a mile with iron sights, but on paper only. I've also shot match rifle at 1K with a x24 on top, again paper only. Did I need to practice to hit that Fig 11 / X? You bet - so the skill factor cannot be refuted. I've always maintained, it's the idiot behind the rifle that makes it work. Yet, all of the above was within a controlled environment - the range. The field, I would submit, is not. Therefore, I can only state that within my particular "field", 250m is about as far as I would practically attempt to kill game and only then, with good light. The reason is simple - husbandry. I must select the right target, determine age, condition and sex in all seasons and pelage, be it dawn or dusk. To do so, I use the finest German and Austrian optics, allowing me to check, re-check and check again. Only then, will I unsling the rifle and mount it on an improvised rest (tree, stalking sticks, knee). The shot itself needs to be accurate and lethal, with no holdover. Hence, I must respect my capabilities under the above circumstances - I'm very competent, but no Olympiad.

Landscape and custom will dictate what is both acceptable and safe, I realise. Hence, what works in my backyard may fail in yours. There remains but one caveat, which we all must respect - fallability. Nothing is certain other than the Physical Law. The flight time of a bullet vs. the spacial change of a dynamc target are two factors, I for one, could neither compute, nor consider. To those that can, fair play.

Regards,

Jacobite

No worries!

This happens every so often. It gets all our supressed feelings out so we do not go postal in real life! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.

This is good for stress! In a bit we will all be screaming "SERENITY NOW!!!!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PLUS IT BUILDS CHARACTER!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] CHICKEN SOUP FOR THE HUNTER'S SOUL![/color]

HA HA !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Taking shots at animals beyond 500 yards,isn't hypocritical,its being honest. I can honestly tell you,that having killed a number of animals at over 500 yards,is in no way to be confused with actually hunting. Hence the reason you have to start these type of threads. You yourselves know that this type of shooting isn't hunting.

Anytime you have to question what you're doing as to wether its hunting or not,its not hunting. You've answered your own question.

Thanks for the PM rick.

Didn't think you'd actually tell me who you were...

Come out and slam a guy but hide behind the keyboard... That says alot in itself...

Simply put, shooting deer at 200 yards, even with the basic rifle and scope is boring. Shooting at long distances is a challenge and with a range finder, ballistics calculator and a good scope, not to mention a Wby. 30-378, you can get the job done. Try it sometime and shooting deer at 200 yards will become a sport of the past.

Just my 2 cents worth. Hunting as defined by the Webster dictionary "seeking game". As soon as you go out the door of your house with a gun in hand, you are seeking game. I thought like you also that long range shooting was not sportsmanship. True years ago all we heard about as long range rifles were 308 and 06 which don't have much hitting power out past 500 yards but now they have rifles that are very accurate/scopes and range finders. It is very difficult to judge distance this is why so many people wound or miss. Now they have range finders that can tell range to within 10 feet. I was skeptical also but some fellas that speak out on this forum have a good argument which wasn't in place 15 years ago. Us old fellas have to acknowledge the new crop of hunters coming out with all that fancy gear perching themselves at strategical locations and sucessfully knocking down game at ranges well over 500 yards. After all packing all that gear, you really can't stalk anymore.

378,

You kinda hit the nail on the head, sorta... Things have changed drastically in the past 10 years... Hell manufactures of SCpoe, rifles, almost anuthing hunting related have acknowledged that LR huntig is here. I'm not saying that everyone should do it. THere are definite idiots out there that shouldn't even think about it. Trouble is some who shouldn't will.
The stalk is still park of my game. I just don't often have to stalk as much. There are times I've been able to stalk within 60 feet and times when 600 yards was as close as I was able. But both times I was able to place my bullet. Only took 1.

I don't care what we call it, my supposition leans back towards old bows and hunting on foot for the real thing, anyone can get within 100 yards or less given time, so no firearm is actually hunting to me.....

The subject is how or why we can do this legally and ethically.

378- I don't carry much gear extra. Rangefinder and windspeed meter and about an 8.5 pound gun. Of course I know what the temps are, and have my paper tables. No bench, 15 pound gun etc.... Some do though, you've seen the links. I prefer to shoot off my pack prone or with a sling. Comes from days of competition.

Jeff

I hear your arguement that long range shooting is what makes the difference of GETTING that trophy of a lifetime.
So Youve climbed the mountain, braved the cliffs, scanned the hills and worked to find that old magnificent goat. Finally he is spotted. Laying in a saddle, Not bedded there by chance he has found a refuge. As he lays rechewing his cud of hard earned forage, he relaxes, Yet still vigilant of aproach. He knows if anything appears within a couple hundred yards he can escape. Hard earned safety. This is how he has become YOUR trophy of a lifetime.
As you and your guide look upon him thru magnification, you judge he is truely magnificent. But there is no aproach.You will have to wait him out, hope to make the right stalk or just have to wait till tommorrow. But wait. You pull out your range finder. He is 495 yards. With your balistic table in your head you quickly access your hold.Resting your weapon on your packs. wedging it in where its steady, You even dry fire a shot, to practice. The click of the firing pin seems deafening in the wilderness silence. But at 500 yards Old long beard hears nothing.
So YOu chamber a round, and breath out slowly, pressing with the tip of your finger, the rifle suprises you as it goes of, a clean shot, And within a instant you have degraded a cunning advisary to nothing more than a long range target.
Congrats on the trophy.
Welp, Its seems you guys are correct. You are elites . Marksmen well practiced and deadly .You CAN shoot 500 plus yards so you SHOULD.
Heck its legal so its OK.
That should be what we live our lives by. Just like lawyers!!!
All this boils down to is technology expanding the range of killing. Making it easier to kill. Dont bother with your expert shooting stuff, pulling the trigger can be mastered at the range. getting within the safety zone of a game animal or stalking as you call it ,takes practice in the feild,I am talking about the zone which he can smell ,hear, see and sense you. not 500 yards.I dont get how you continue to assume I cannot shoot. I have shot game way out there. I do not brag about it because I am not proud of it. I was wrong for taking the chance of wounding, I know that.
All things aside. What you are missing, Is it is not the anti nuts who will see this debate or your shooting and be upset and decide hunting is unfair. They beleive any killing is wrong and they are fruitier than my kids breakfast cereal.
But Joe and Jane public, who happen to turn on the outdoor channel and see this sniping of game that are oblivious to being pursued as unsporting, unfair and unethical. And those my friend are who will take your hunting rights away. With out the mainstream vote the peta groups are ineffective .
To quote capstick. He is speaking of elephant but he is also speaking of the self imposed rules of the hunt.Which some of us put upon ourselves. He says.
"So it is with elephants. Or lions. Or brown trout on the dry fly. Just as a man man indeed slaughter an elephant from a safe distance,he may also HUNT a particular one under a code of rules that is part of the same ethic that forbids passing signals to a partner at bridge, shooting sitting ducks or using night crawlers in a fly-only trout stream." What he is speaking of is putting his life on the line, Not mearly obtaining the TROPHY of a lifetime.
In closing i surrender. You win. All this debate is unhealthy. Im going hunting.

Nice story Safari. Lets say you were stalking in and suddenly he sniffs you, rats that slight breeze gave you away! He jumps up and looks right a you! You can see the full curl a full 6 inchs past the eyes. He turns and all you got for a target ia a big ass and only 200 yards. Tell you what about 90 % of you stalkers would shoot an animal on the move, pretty well the stupidous thing you could do.You want to talk about wounding, this is how most of the animals get wounded that off hand quick shot on the spur of the moment (desperation). Don't tell me you wouldn't shoot. It is sure thing, just as you look at your toilet before you flush. A long shot with a stationary target is better than the scenario I have just depicted. This debate is healthy and we should throw all the cards on the table.

I agree with you. In the 60's was a good article in one of the hunting magazine about Fred Huntington (RCBS) new 1000yd elk rifle 30-338mag which lead me to the 30-338mag. About 15 yrs ago Dan Lilja (Lilja Barrels) did some articles for PS magazine about LR elk rifles interesting part was barrels/bullets/caliber and scopes.

I'm almost 65 so I started to watch a change starting in the 80's as to bullets and barrels for us early LR hunters(500Yds) which was good. I have nothing against someone who want to only shoot a max 250yds or hunt the dark timber for elk which I consider those guys to be a breed apart which I admire. My first LR rifle I had build in the mid 60's was a 7mag have we come a long ways.

WyoWhisper, I haven't always agreed with you when you posted on the other site but I like your rifles and the article in 6br about them. I guess you and Allen Day moved over here about the same time. Well good luck

Now that's a sportsman. Sorta like catch and release. Is that a 30-378 acumark popping up there. It's nice to see sportsman like you around. When you get older you get wiser. Respect always your elders. Trouble is it's harder to find one nowadays. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't think there's any question that equipment has improved greatly. What hasn't changed is wind. And from 600 yards and beyond the wind becomes more then a major problem. At a 1000 yards a small breeze becomes a major factor throwing the bullet off by feet.. At 1500 yards,you haven't got a [bleep] clue where the bullet is going to hit. But then again who cares because you aren't taking a bullet.

As for arse shots on game at close range. If you use enough bullet the outcome of an arse shot is more certain then any shot taken beyond 500 yards.

The arse shot is a deadly one. You betcha but I was suggesting he was on the run at the time of the arse showing. The shot taken while an animal is on the run is the foolish one referred too. They sometimes bounce sideways suddenly and you really shouldn't be shooting at game on the run. I agree it is just as foolish as shooting a mile away.

Well said! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

378, It does no good to support your side of the debate by trying to assume what I or others who shoot close would do.
Just because some slob would attempt a 200 yard texas heart shot at running game does not make long range shooting (AT GAME ) acceptable.
Sorry , but no I would not attempt a moving tail shot.

And The Capstick quote is from Death in the long grass. In his introduction. Sorry not to credit that.

anyone that cannot read the wind within 1mph at 600 and be able to tell what its going to do the whole time, does not nearly have enough practice to be thinking like a 600 yard shot. It takes work but 600 is very readable. Granted 1000 becomes a bit trickier and that I've not shot many times at 1500 and beyond yet, so don't really have a good grasp on it. Though I will say that I've never been off much more than about 2-4 feet at 1500-1600 yards. The problems compound as you get further out. Group size becomes an issue, as does time of flight, and the nuances of differing layers of wind, plus the fact of the arc of the bullet taking itself up pretty high into winds that maybe layered into things not visible at that height off the ground....

500 is still a chip shot for a capable shooter.

Jeff