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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,314 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,314 Likes: 2 |
I am not a Berger user but have 0 issues with the folks using them since I've seen enough of people killing the heck out of stuff.
I have shot a bunch of elk and deer along with seeing a lot of the others I hunt with and getting exits on elk with Partitions, Accubond, Bitterroots, Sciroccos and similar isn't a guarantee and to be honest hasn't affected the outcome for us. Two holes is okay by me, but I'll gladly trade a widely expanded bullet that is wadded up in the skin on the far side knowing it probably left everything churned up pretty good.
Exits on elk are pretty tough to guarantee if you kill enough of them. But one or two animals really doesn't make a sample size worth mentioning.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 746
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 746 |
I love how you clown are convinced you know more than the bullet manufacturers about their bullets. And yet you are convinced that you know more about Berger hunting bullets than Berger does.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
...
Having said this,using a 225 grain Nosler partition led to a long tracking job on a 170 pound whitetail buck,and I can promise you it had an exit wound. ... The one animal I've lost had two holes in it - in and out. At the start it left the Biggest blood trail I'd ever seen - thick stripes 2-3" wide and 2-3 feet long. We were sure the cow would be down behind the next stand of scrub oak or sage. Nope. Followed it over the crest of one hill, across a valley and over the top of the next peak. Lost the trail completely about 150 yards from a fence line. as dark approached. Went back the next morning and had no better luck. Exit holes don't guarantee anything. Have had quite few with no exits but never lost one of them.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,314 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,314 Likes: 2 |
I love how you clown are convinced you know more than the bullet manufacturers about their bullets. And yet you are convinced that you know more about Berger hunting bullets than Berger does. And another thing that is wrong is saying Nosler would automatically recommend an Accubond over a Ballistic Tip.. I have spoken to quite a few of their techs over the years and sorta why I loaded the 180 Ballistic Tip for my buddy in his 300 Weatherby, cause Nosler said they would be fine.. This sorta stuff could make a guy confused on what really works and what works in someones head..
Semper Fi
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,525 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,525 Likes: 2 |
I love how you clown are convinced you know more than the bullet manufacturers about their bullets. And yet you are convinced that you know more about Berger hunting bullets than Berger does. And another thing that is wrong is... Correcting everything that is wrong in his posts would be a full-time job...
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,314 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,314 Likes: 2 |
I love how you clown are convinced you know more than the bullet manufacturers about their bullets. And yet you are convinced that you know more about Berger hunting bullets than Berger does. And another thing that is wrong is... Correcting everything that is wrong in his posts would be a full-time job... Point taken...
Semper Fi
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
I love how you clown are convinced you know more than the bullet manufacturers about their bullets. And yet you are convinced that you know more about Berger hunting bullets than Berger does. And another thing that is wrong is... Correcting everything that is wrong in his posts would be a full-time job... Or drive someone to drinking....heavily.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,429
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,429 |
So your argument is, since even the A-frame did not exit......the frangible VLD is a better application on heavier-boned game? The goal isn't to have a "high percentage" of animals recovered. It's to recover all of them. Without a good exit wound, there's no way you can be sure of that. An exit wound also speeds the animal "dropping" since it facilitates blood loss.
I have yet to hear a single reason why one would want to use the failure prone Bergers instead of the many reliable bullets that are readily available. Used a 270 gr Swift A-Frame from my .375 H&H on this blue wildebeest and the bullet did not exit. The shot was around 100-125 yds away. Guess we were lucky to even recover it,since there was no exit wound for it to bleed out from.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,863 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,863 Likes: 4 |
The argument is even if you agree with Bob's choice in bullets his reasoning against the Bergers is laden with bunk.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6 |
The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,429
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,429 |
That's the problem....we're voluntarily going back to the frangible cup & core bullets we had to use 50 years ago. Friends don't let friends shoot VLD's at big game. The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6 |
You're as clueless as llama knob.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,525 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,525 Likes: 2 |
That's the problem....we're voluntarily going back to the frangible cup & core bullets we had to use 50 years ago. Friends don't let friends shoot VLD's at big game. The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago. VLD's don't function terminally like standard C&C bullets. How many Bergers have you shot into game? Curious if your dislike for them is based on a tally of unfavourable experience, or theory only.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
So your argument is, since even the A-frame did not exit......the frangible VLD is a better application on heavier-boned game? The goal isn't to have a "high percentage" of animals recovered. It's to recover all of them. Without a good exit wound, there's no way you can be sure of that. An exit wound also speeds the animal "dropping" since it facilitates blood loss.
I have yet to hear a single reason why one would want to use the failure prone Bergers instead of the many reliable bullets that are readily available. Used a 270 gr Swift A-Frame from my .375 H&H on this blue wildebeest and the bullet did not exit. The shot was around 100-125 yds away. Guess we were lucky to even recover it,since there was no exit wound for it to bleed out from. Nope,you do not need an exit wound to kill big game.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,161 Likes: 13 |
If we did, we'd all be using solids for everything.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,741 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,741 Likes: 5 |
If we did, we'd all be using solids for everything. Or just use TSX's.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 |
Phugging-A, I just browsed through all this bull chit. Pick a flocking bullet and go hunt.Taking an internet poll on what to use is akin asking a stranger what girl to marry. Elk are mythically tough, but in reality give up the ghost pretty quickly.
Read Pat's 4 points carefully (scenarshooter), glue them to your forehead, and repeat often.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,429
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,429 |
Not an answer to my question, but a phenomenally fantastic diversion attempt. 10/10 So your argument is, since even the A-frame did not exit......the frangible VLD is a better application on heavier-boned game? The goal isn't to have a "high percentage" of animals recovered. It's to recover all of them. Without a good exit wound, there's no way you can be sure of that. An exit wound also speeds the animal "dropping" since it facilitates blood loss.
I have yet to hear a single reason why one would want to use the failure prone Bergers instead of the many reliable bullets that are readily available. Used a 270 gr Swift A-Frame from my .375 H&H on this blue wildebeest and the bullet did not exit. The shot was around 100-125 yds away. Guess we were lucky to even recover it,since there was no exit wound for it to bleed out from. Nope,you do not need an exit wound to kill big game.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 920
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 920 |
Mike have you killed anything with Bergers? Or "target" bullets? Or an elk?
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
Well then enlighten us - with my 175gr A-Frames in 7mm, I've always gotten expansion and always gotten an exit wound. 100%. With Bergers, I've NEVER seen one produce an exit wound unless the bullet failed to expand at all. I've never even seen a picture of the mythical one that worked right.
130 grain VLD out of a .260 Entrance Exit
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” ALDO LEOPOLD
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