|
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 437
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 437 |
Disconcerting that people like him actually walk around with loaded weapons.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago. Best post of the whole thread.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,478
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,478 |
I've only killed 4 elk with 180 gr. Bergers out of my 7mmSTW - 3 never took a step, justed crumpled where they stood. The only elk that wasn't DRT, was a cow that was shot as she was running about 80-90 yards away, after the shot she maybe went 30yds before she crumpled up, and she left the biggest blood trail I've ever seen left by any critter. Looked like somebody filled a 5 gallon bucket with blood and flung it down the trail - Ray Charles could of followed it. Two of the 4 elk had exit holes, both being close shots of less than 100yds. As far as the Bergers go - I love em, they do the job and they're accurate as hell. So now the question is,did the 2 bullets that exited fail, or did the 2 bullets that did not exit fail? Hopefully lama boy will weigh in and answer this question as only he could do.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,229 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,229 Likes: 9 |
Nope, but Llama Bob posted this: "Internal bleeding drops blood pressure much slower than external bleeding." Dolly Llama's Troll terminal ballistics is about as entertaining as his Troll hemodynamic physiology. He's equally uninformed on both. DF Amen Dirtfarmer. The guy is very "entertaining". "Cheap" entertainment. DF
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,168 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,168 Likes: 5 |
Llama bob is the gift that keeps on giving.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,273 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,273 Likes: 14 |
The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago. Best post of the whole thread. Thanks but my vote for the best post goes to this one, because it was back at the beginning of the thread and summed it up before it unfolded: Berger threads crop up here every few months and the gist of the comments can be boiled down to:
(a) I haven't actually used them but they aren't worth a damn--they blow up, don't penetrate, they don't leave an exit wound, and (with the exception of szihn) I know this for a fact because someone told me so.
or
(b) I have used them and they worked for me.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258 |
When a bullet produces no exit wound (and in fact has no mechanism to produce one unless it fails to expand) that's a failure. . You're an idiot. I think I've killed 10 or 11 elk in the last 15 years with my muzzleloader and no exit wound. Didn't lose any. You strike me as someone who's read a lot of books on hunting and shooting. smokepole you're just arguing with a keyboard hunter without a single animals experience. Not to mention that Burger tested the hunting VLD on red stag in New Zealand and smoked them.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258 |
Disconcerting that people like him actually walk around with loaded weapons. +1
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,258 |
After reading this thread thus far the only thing I regret is not having a large bucket of popcorn...............................................and a beer.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,278
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,278 |
After reading this thread thus far the only thing I regret is not having a large bucket of popcorn...............................................and a beer. More pages than when I asked if anyones' Remington 700 bolt handle had broken off.....
Eagles may soar, but a weasel never got sucked into a jet turbine!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 608
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 608 |
This has been explained over and over again but sometimes you simply can´t drive a donkey to the water regardless how thirsty he is.
The killing mechanism of the VLD is totally different to other bullets; It will drill the first 2-3 inches of tissue (any tissue, including bone) without any expansion and will then blow up causing massive destruction. If the animal you're shooting is big enough this massive destructions will happen inside the animal and if it is not big enough you will have a horrible exit hole.
I have used them extensively on cull hunts in South Africa and Namibia and know they are efficient killers and this is something unargueable. The proof being in the pudding.
Shooting so many animals, from Springbucks to Zebras with them, I have eventually had one or two do a funny thing inside, though always killing the animal.
If you think you need an exit hole to kill an animal you should use large caliber cartridges loaded with solids.
Or, if you think how well a bullet kills is dependent on the looks of a recovered bullet (VLDs will normally look horrible!) then you should only use low velocity loads with monolithics, partitioned, bonded, etc. bullets.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437 |
I try to throw a hissy fit once or twice a day. They say it's the equivalent of registering 3000 steps with a girlie-man fitbit. Been a guide/outfitter since 1997. Dealt with many experts......probably just like you. We've kept a journal. Pretty funny stuff you throwing a hissy fit about stuff you haven't a clue about Mike...
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,273 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,273 Likes: 14 |
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437 |
Darn, there really is no getting anything past you.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,273 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,273 Likes: 14 |
Whitetail outfitter in Iowa?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437 |
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
Iowa Elk outfitter. In certain locations Iowa even permits hunting with rifles.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437 |
Yes, we did operate within a couple hundred yards of some trophy elk. Then, Timberghost fortunately moved them. Perhaps Jorge, hatari, or Pugs shot one at the other location. We've dealt with some real experts over the years. I do see similar personalities in many posts here on the forum. The January rifle doe-hunts are currently discontinued. Pretty sure we weren't the only complainers to the State concerning early-shedders getting shot in January. But, you can use some straight-walled cartridges now, passed this year. Can use them during the shotgun seasons even. Iowa Elk outfitter. In certain locations Iowa even permits hunting with rifles.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437 |
These things sound magical. All this, without computer programming or anything? Who is being led to water, again? This has been explained over and over again but sometimes you simply can´t drive a donkey to the water regardless how thirsty he is.
The killing mechanism of the VLD is totally different to other bullets; It will drill the first 2-3 inches of tissue (any tissue, including bone) without any expansion and will then blow up causing massive destruction. If the animal you're shooting is big enough this massive destructions will happen inside the animal and if it is not big enough you will have a horrible exit hole.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,437 |
Guess I'm guilty of just falling for some fad, preferring heavier constructed bullets for heavier boned game. The problem with Mike's statement and others is Berger VLDs don't act the same as conventional frangible cup and core bullets. They may well not act like some want a bullet to act, but that's a different question.
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
|
|
|
|
561 members (160user, 257Bob, 257 roberts, 10gaugemag, 222ND, 21, 47 invisible),
2,652
guests, and
1,338
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,372
Posts18,527,387
Members74,031
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|