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And RH disagree's with you regarding Grace vs. works. Like I said, 100 verses on each side of this question.

He casts his bait again.

Ah, the grace/works paradox.

Simply, works as if spreading the Spirit are not done in order to obtain Grace but because of it.

But we have to recognize that people do great things on their own. An atheisst can be a charitable person and do everything God calls us Christians to do. But that does not bring salvation, ever.

As we talk about God and his Grace, the Satan and is maliciousness, we tend to forget that there are three spirits in this mix. Man is a spirit in this mix and can choose good or evil all on his own. I think when God said, " Let us make man in our own image" He was not saying that he himself has legs, arms, hands, finger and toes because a spirit with the power to speak things into existence needs none of those. I think He meant creating man with a self determining will, like His. That will can take any direction without influence from either God or Satan all on its own.

Christianity is not a religion but rather a relationship with Jesus Christ. Salvation is a very personal and individual matter. It is not contingent upon church membership or something that can be relegated to another person or church system.

Our "works" reveal the object of our faith (which is Christ). Works don't justify us before God but reveal to whom or what the object of our faith is. Good works are fruits of the Holy Spirit. Our "work" is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The gospel of Christ is a message of grace alone. We are saved by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. It's that simple, and it's a free gift. That is the only way to salvation.

Consider this... Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God. He had fingers and toes and the other things you mentioned, as well as a spirit. So we look like God and we act like God in that we have free will and do in fact "create" things. The difference we create in our minds from nothing but execute them in the world with stuff. The stuff could be wood or steel or written word in a book or essay.

Maybe you here illustrate the difference between the wisdom and strength of God and the silliness and weakness of mankind.

Man persisting in justifying his on way and leaning on his own understanding and, of course, that understanding influenced by his own desire.

People hundreds of years ago didnt understand bacteria or lightening, which could still kill them, and did.

Too many churches have fallen under the influence of the almighty dollar, thinking that's what it's all about. Same way with some church goers as well. There's a couple who attend the same church that I go to. They give to the church......but it's usually things that they can also use as a tax write off. They have even gone so far as to keep up with their mileage to and from church, and take that off as "charity". For some reason, I think they are attending church for the wrong reason. Times change, so does "religion". The church services that I attended 50 years ago, are much different from services today. Too many churches, religions, take your pick, have customized their message so as to cater to their members......and keep the money coming in. Same way on the issue of homosexuality and same sex marriage.

I think it's only natural for a Christian to have doubts about religion, and the direction they are going in. I have, many times too. I'm still not sure about everything, and will probably die having my doubts. But, I do believe that if you love the Lord with all your heart and soul, and do your best to live as He wants you to, then the rest will not matter as much as you might think it would.

I can't seem to get the quote function to work this morning, but I think your post about the scriptures is a good illustration of a point I've made many times on these type threads.

Since pretty much ALL theology, and definitely ALL the rules for "churches" come from Paul's writing, shouldn't those writings be subject to a critical review by any honest seeker of Gods will for Mankind in general, not as individuals?

Without Paul we would not have the doctrine of original sin which necessitates the doctrine of an immaculate conception.

Doesnt Jesus giving the two Great Commandmants stand in sharp contrast to all of Paul's contorted reasoning?

Those of you who yoke Jesus with Paul are following the Roman Church of the fourth century instead of Jesus.

That's your business, of course, but it is my business to offer an alternative view for those who reject your ideas.

Don't drive near a Mega christian church on Sunday morn.... the " worshipers" will run over you in their hurry to get inside and socialize.

It appears driving ability, and curtesy, is over run by the zeal to worship.

You are truly a SPECIAL child of God.

Not so great of contrast that any of Jesus' apostles saw fit to correct him. Indeed, they listened to him, judged his teachings, and determined they were in harmony with what Jesus taught.

Agree.

Most Christians think of the Day of Pentecost that you are referring which was the birthday of the church as the first one. But Pentecost is Greek for the Jewish word Shavuot which is the feast of weeks, in which they celebrate the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai. That was the first one. That is what the Apostles, being Jews, were celebrating.

You know the story. Moses was up on the mountain, and the people thinking him dead started worshiping a golden calf idol. All hell broke loose when he got back and found out what was going on. About 3,000 of them died for their mistake. God gave the law from Mount Sinai with fire and thunder.

Fast forward to the day of Pentecost (Shavuot) in the book of Acts. The Holy Spirit came into the world with "a rushing mighty wind" and "tongues of fire" sat on the Apostles. Afterward, the Apostle Peter went out and announced to the crowd (also Jews) Jesus as both God and Messiah. What happened next? About 3000 people believed what he had to say and were saved!

Thus the law of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ was issued in with beautiful symbolism, and the law of the old covenant was superseded.

I am Catholic and a believer in Catholicism. I believe that something warms your heart it is God speaking g to you and these little things make most people quite grateful. God gave us free choice and hopes the choices you make warm your heart along the way. If a choice creates anger , jealousy , fear...it is not him speaking. I don't think that faith is religion either.I am not religious-don't care for the term

You ever read Genesis Three?

Yep......
Never noticed anything about an immaculate conception where the Mother of God, her mother and on back thru the ages had to be sinless.

The Creator of the universe will not be harnessed verbatim to words written by men who were only getting a glimpse of Divinity and filling in the blanks with their imaginings. To this day it is all we are capable of.

You would do well to lay aside your bible and do as Peter suggested......... study YOUR conscience " as to a light shining in a dark place" and leave off counseling others.

I seem to recall Peter giving him a vote of confidence while admitting that Paul was hard to understand.That is the opposite of the teachings ascribed to Jesus.

I'll admit that if I was trying to establish a State Religion for Rome in an he fourth century, I'd latch onto all of Paul's writings also.

since all the heavy hitters are weighing in, might be time for a pinch hitter or two just to add a dollop of gravity.

god acting under and in his capacity of omneity can and will save anyone and everyone whom he chooses to save, no?

even if someone doesn't want to be saved, if god wants him/her to be saved, he'll find a way to pull the effort off in his favor.

omneity is such a concept that it almost allows for anything, as long as god's will is achieved. and his will shall almost certainly be achieved.

i guess this is where five-point, or at least three point calvinism raises its ugly little head, but to the denial of many who walk among us. the Elect???

Steelhead, I'm not critizing here but am sometimes easily confused. Your comments seem to twist and turn when it comes to Christianity or Christians as if you are a schizophrenic on this subject due maybe to a very bad experience (?).

Here, you seem to acknowledge God and that you think he'd have us love one another while elsewhere you will respond to someone with ridicule, derision and then the finisher: a sarcastic "prayers sent."

You're doing a lot of adding to the Word there. The Catholics believe in the un-Biblical "immaculate conception. None of Apostle Paul's works today even hint of that.

Somehow along the way you have been deceived to think you conscience is better than God's Word. God tells us He sends a deluding influence on those who wish to believe a lie.

As far as Apostle Peter is concerned you are taking some major liberties. He says about the things Paul writes in 2 Peter 3:14-16:

"Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

We see Peter is including Paul's writing in Scripture.