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The truth is that "you don't know what is". All your good deeds and loving kindness is like menstrual rags to God, as long as you are trusting in what you can do to be worthy of Heaven. Salvation is to surrender your life to God and trust in Jesus alone and his sacrifice for your redemption. From that relationship and trust good deeds will be birthed,but the good deeds without the relationship and trust in Jesus are totally worthless.
Personally,I have to question your relationship with Jesus since you seem to despise his body,the Church,and his servants,the pastors. Do you judge them by their deeds and yourself by your intentions? Do you judge them only by what you suppose to be true,and what makes you feel better about not submitting to any authority? Do you want to be judged as harshly as you are judging them? I can't say if you are saved or not,but I've told you what it is to be saved,and given you some important questions to ask yourself. I do hope you come to the correct conclusions and make the right decision.
Discuss it further with this fellow.
Who told you the clergy was supposed to be a calling and not a job?
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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CurDog,
I must ask you; What was your purpose in posting this?
I fear it does more harm than good. What possible, positive outcome can result from this? What was your motivation?
While I was not a member of FBC when "Trump's Preacher" was there I remember the homosexual book ordeal. While I personally don't think it was done in the best way, I do think you have to give the guy credit for being willing to step out and make a stand. I don't recall ANY other preacher in the area backing him up. They all remained politically correct and silent.
Dr. Jeffress is quite outspoken and therefor much criticized. For an example, have you ever seen his message on "America Is A Christian Nation" ? Wonderful and full of facts and it put the antis into fits of rage.
In any case I hope that in the future you consider what harm can be done to the faith when publically criticizing a mere man that you don't like.
The tongue is an evil member.
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable."
Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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I don't believe a letter written by St Paul to a church in Rome gives President Trump the authority for a preemptive strike on North Korea, and that's what Jeffress is touting. That's the primary reason for starting the thread.
Maybe you think that Ringman would make a good National Security Advisor to Trump. If you do, that's your prerogative, but I think not.
Trumps authority comes from the office he was elected to subject to Constitutional constraints.
Funny how out of all the Pastors in Wichita Falls, Jeffress was the only one doing the right thing about the book on lesbian parents.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Outfitter
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The truth is that "you don't know what is". All your good deeds and loving kindness is like menstrual rags to God, as long as you are trusting in what you can do to be worthy of Heaven. Salvation is to surrender your life to God and trust in Jesus alone and his sacrifice for your redemption. From that relationship and trust good deeds will be birthed,but the good deeds without the relationship and trust in Jesus are totally worthless.
Personally,I have to question your relationship with Jesus since you seem to despise his body,the Church,and his servants,the pastors. Do you judge them by their deeds and yourself by your intentions? Do you judge them only by what you suppose to be true,and what makes you feel better about not submitting to any authority? Do you want to be judged as harshly as you are judging them? I can't say if you are saved or not,but I've told you what it is to be saved,and given you some important questions to ask yourself. I do hope you come to the correct conclusions and make the right decision.
Discuss it further with this fellow.
Who told you the clergy was supposed to be a calling and not a job?
I'm sure you find me too critical in my supposition? When a man tells me what he will do, as if it's proof of his salvation,and there is no mention at all of Christ, I would be lax in my duty to that man unless I asked some hard questions.
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Mr. Clark, you sound like someone who I'd be pleased to have as my pastor.
As for those worried about how much income a pastor has, I'd just remind you that the pastor doesn't set his own salary. There is usually a board of directors, deacons, who approve the budget of the local church. Some of you sound like liberal Democrats railing about income inequality.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't believe a letter written by St Paul to a church in Rome gives President Trump the authority for a preemptive strike on North Korea, and that's what Jeffress is touting. That's the primary reason for starting the thread.
Maybe you think that Ringman would make a good National Security Advisor to Trump. If you do, that's your prerogative, but I think not.
Trumps authority comes from the office he was elected to subject to Constitutional constraints.
Funny how out of all the Pastors in Wichita Falls, Jeffress was the only one doing the right thing about the book on lesbian parents. You really believe a preacher from Wichita Falls, TX can convince the President of the US to preemptively strike a country? That's quite a reach.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Mr. Clark, you sound like someone who I'd be pleased to have as my pastor.
As for those worried about how much income a pastor has, I'd just remind you that the pastor doesn't set his own salary. There is usually a board of directors, deacons, who approve the budget of the local church. Some of you sound like liberal Democrats railing about income inequality. I agree with you regarding Mr. Clark. I would enjoy his company and would learn from his wisdom, I'm sure. You are confusing those who are bound and determined to be critical with facts regarding preachers and income and they won't stand for that. Your post was spot-on. Thanks.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Anybody else notice a pattern with regard to curdog's posts re: anything to do with Christianity?
Ironically enough I agree with the original assertion re: the pastor & Trump, although I doubt Trump gives a rat's rear end to what any pastors or anyone else might have to say about a decision he has to make.
Amazing how anti-Christian professing Christians can be in such a public way. As my original response contends, just seems so counter productive if the glory of Christ is one's goal.
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Two things....
1. Pastors fall short and are fully sinners just like the rest of us.
2. Most pastors can keep a better crowd than Jesus did, and that scares me about what's being taught.
Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other the person to die ......
"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything you gave me."
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Campfire Ranger
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So it is all right for you to criticize a Christians action (Curdog) but wrong for Curdog to criticize a Cristian action? miles
Last edited by milespatton; 08/11/17. Reason: meant for efw, not bootsfishing
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Anybody else notice a pattern with regard to curdog's posts re: anything to do with Christianity?
Ironically enough I agree with the original assertion re: the pastor & Trump, although I doubt Trump gives a rat's rear end to what any pastors or anyone else might have to say about a decision he has to make.
Amazing how anti-Christian professing Christians can be in such a public way. As my original response contends, just seems so counter productive if the glory of Christ is one's goal. Since you mentioned irony........ funny how we criticize the "Muslim community" for not calling out their radical imams, but when a Christian calls out a grandstanding preacher, he gets kicked off the cheerleading squad. At its core, Christianity is a relationship between a man and his Creator and secondly his relationship to his fellow humans, not just his fellow Christians. No way to know for sure, and it is not my motivation, but I suspect I might do a little better job than a bible thumper when it comes to getting an unbeliever to take a second look at Jesus.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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Can you show me from God's Word where Hebrews10:26 was NOT written to Christians? Many Christians have used That very Scripture to tell me I should be part of an assembly.
The rest of your post borders on foolishness. You can find it if you take the time to study the original text and take the whole letter into consideration. The reason that "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" is that if a Jew wouldn't accept the sacrifice of Jesus as final,no other sacrifice would have any merit. As to the rest of my post , 1 Cor.1:21 Would you otherwise take the scripture to mean that if a Christian sins on purpose,he is no longer saved? To do so would be eisegesis. Does your post mean Galatians is for the Jews and not for Christians too? In Galatians Paul is speaking to Jews who have become Christians but are falling back into the law as their guide. Do you think as a Christian his warnings not to rely on the law could have any significance for you? Conversely,in Hebrews Paul is calling it "willful sin" for a Jew who has heard the Gospel,and tasted of the truth,to go back into animal sacrifice. He is telling them that if they will not accept the sacrifice of Jesus ,there remains no more sacrifice.Heb.10:26 Don't you see how you completely take his words out of context if you claim that the " willful sin" Paul is speaking of is any sin a Christian does on purpose? The only way you could commit the "willful sin" Paul is speaking of is to go back to animal sacrifice because you think Jesus wasn't the sacrifice for your sin. That's why verse 29 applies and you would have "trodden underfoot the Son Of God and counted his blood an unholy thing",because you wouldn't accept his blood for your sin. You got all that from reading the Bible?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Preachers have their own agenda. Some good. Some bad. True. My grandpa used to say if you come home and see the preacher leaving your house he'll either be picking his teeth or zipping up his pants. Not sure how true that is but I always found it funny. A guy I shared a hangar with used to say..."The best time to make a deal is Sunday morning, because all the crooks are in Church" I still find that hilarious! Most of the Churches around here are strictly money making machines...decent people but if the money aspect was taken away their "never-ending faith" would end, guaranteed.
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R_H_Clark,
Some of your thoughts remind me of Joseph Prince. God gives him insights that I have not received. Same with some of your stuff.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Oracle
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Anybody else notice a pattern with regard to curdog's posts re: anything to do with Christianity?
Ironically enough I agree with the original assertion re: the pastor & Trump, although I doubt Trump gives a rat's rear end to what any pastors or anyone else might have to say about a decision he has to make.
Amazing how anti-Christian professing Christians can be in such a public way. As my original response contends, just seems so counter productive if the glory of Christ is one's goal. Since you mentioned irony........ funny how we criticize the "Muslim community" for not calling out their radical imams, but when a Christian calls out a grandstanding preacher, he gets kicked off the cheerleading squad. At its core, Christianity is a relationship between a man and his Creator and secondly his relationship to his fellow humans, not just his fellow Christians. No way to know for sure, and it is not my motivation, but I suspect I might do a little better job than a bible thumper when it comes to getting an unbeliever to take a second look at Jesus. Being less crazy, having less than 6 ex-wives and not being an alcoholic will garner more unbelievers to take a second look
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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R_H_Clark,
Some of your thoughts remind me of Joseph Prince. God gives him insights that I have not received. Same with some of your stuff. I appreciate that comment. I will continue to hope and believe that God will give you the same insights. I do believe you to be an honest man,even if I think sometimes misguided,but then couldn't the same be said at times about most all of us? I will try very hard to have more patience and kindness toward everyone,even those ,or really especially those,I disagree with. You have helped me in that area,if nothing else.
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Can you show me from God's Word where Hebrews10:26 was NOT written to Christians? Many Christians have used That very Scripture to tell me I should be part of an assembly.
The rest of your post borders on foolishness. You can find it if you take the time to study the original text and take the whole letter into consideration. The reason that "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" is that if a Jew wouldn't accept the sacrifice of Jesus as final,no other sacrifice would have any merit. As to the rest of my post , 1 Cor.1:21 Would you otherwise take the scripture to mean that if a Christian sins on purpose,he is no longer saved? To do so would be eisegesis. Does your post mean Galatians is for the Jews and not for Christians too? In Galatians Paul is speaking to Jews who have become Christians but are falling back into the law as their guide. Do you think as a Christian his warnings not to rely on the law could have any significance for you? Conversely,in Hebrews Paul is calling it "willful sin" for a Jew who has heard the Gospel,and tasted of the truth,to go back into animal sacrifice. He is telling them that if they will not accept the sacrifice of Jesus ,there remains no more sacrifice.Heb.10:26 Don't you see how you completely take his words out of context if you claim that the " willful sin" Paul is speaking of is any sin a Christian does on purpose? The only way you could commit the "willful sin" Paul is speaking of is to go back to animal sacrifice because you think Jesus wasn't the sacrifice for your sin. That's why verse 29 applies and you would have "trodden underfoot the Son Of God and counted his blood an unholy thing",because you wouldn't accept his blood for your sin. You got all that from reading the Bible? Yes Sir. Not only from just reading the KJV,but from reading several translations and a lot of years diligently studying the original texts,not just a quick translation from a Strong's,or Vine's,but also with help from the most respected Greek and Hebrew scholars since the turn of the century. I have a long way to go I know, and I don't mean to sound conceited, but it is only in the last 10 to possibly 7 years that I feel like I can better see the whole,rather than just concentrating on the individual parts. I do my best to interpret scripture so that all scripture makes sense without seeming contradictions. When I find a seeming contradiction,I decide that it is my understand that is in opposition,rather than the Word. Sometimes I find flaws in translation,and sometimes I see that I have not rightly divided the Word,taking into consideration the different dispensations or Covenants, or even the specific intent of the author. I'm not saying that I can't ever be wrong.I'm just outlining my process in the hope that it will be some benefit to someone.
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Campfire Ranger
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Since you mentioned irony........ funny how we criticize the "Muslim community" for not calling out their radical imams, but when a Christian calls out a grandstanding preacher, he gets kicked off the cheerleading squad.
At its core, Christianity is a relationship between a man and his Creator and secondly his relationship to his fellow humans, not just his fellow Christians.
No way to know for sure, and it is not my motivation, but I suspect I might do a little better job than a bible thumper when it comes to getting an unbeliever to take a second look at Jesus.
A few things here. 1) I already said I agree with you on the preacher, and also as I already said it isn't this one thread that caused me to say what I said. It's the sum of your threads on Christians. You seem to enjoy lamenting the self-righteousness of others on a regular basis. Rarely do I hear you say anything positive. 2) fellow Christians are fellow humans... even the Great Christian Himself was a human... 3) "bible thumper" is a relative term that you seem to bandy about whenever someone chooses to suggest you're wrong about something. Just because you can get non-Christians agreeing with you about what dirtbags other Christians are doesn't mean you're getting anyone to take a second look at Jesus. It could just be that they share your tendency cited in my bullet point #1
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Show me some not preaching the false doctrine of tithing.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Campfire Ranger
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The truth is that "you don't know what is". All your good deeds and loving kindness is like menstrual rags to God, as long as you are trusting in what you can do to be worthy of Heaven. Salvation is to surrender your life to God and trust in Jesus alone and his sacrifice for your redemption. From that relationship and trust good deeds will be birthed,but the good deeds without the relationship and trust in Jesus are totally worthless.
Personally,I have to question your relationship with Jesus since you seem to despise his body,the Church,and his servants,the pastors. Do you judge them by their deeds and yourself by your intentions? Do you judge them only by what you suppose to be true,and what makes you feel better about not submitting to any authority? Do you want to be judged as harshly as you are judging them? I can't say if you are saved or not,but I've told you what it is to be saved,and given you some important questions to ask yourself. I do hope you come to the correct conclusions and make the right decision.
Discuss it further with this fellow.
Who told you the clergy was supposed to be a calling and not a job?
I'm sure you find me too critical in my supposition? When a man tells me what he will do, as if it's proof of his salvation,and there is no mention at all of Christ, I would be lax in my duty to that man unless I asked some hard questions. I vaguely remember something about "judge not".
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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