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dd that is my fav movie

Absolutely no one could play a bad guy like Alan Rickman (RIP)

Said I never had much use for one. Didn't say I didn't know how to use it..

Makes me cringe every time I see the Shiloh thrown in the dirt.

How many here have one of the promotion cartridges for it, that the NRA put out? I do. miles

Long time back the fella holding the lease for our hunt club told me my .30-30 was inadequate and I should get a 7mm mag like his. Came within inches of buying a Quigley just to fug with his head.

Few years back I picked up a Highwall chambered for the .45 Quigley Short. It'll do....

Takes a man's man to handle 45-100+'s, so I settled on a 45-90 Long Range Express. Weighs about 15 lbs and I hope to nail an elk with it some day.

Yes, Throw that in the dirt and there would be Hell to pay. Probably the finest commercial production company in the US. The English gun makers might be able to match their fit and finish. Expensive, but damned well worth it, they are units that will appreciate.

Don't have any of the promotional cartridges, but do have about 300 currently loaded and ready to roll for the 2 45-110's I shoot.

It wasn't the real one.

Bump to clear spam off of the homepage

They prolly had a Pedersoli to throw down and a Shiloh to shoot.

I'm feeling the lure. .45-120..........send prayers.

Where can I find a Hindenburg mould?

Actually it was a real Shiloh. Selleck came here to Montana to visit the Shiloh plant and spend some time with Mike Venturino to become more familiar with a Sharps rifle. They made 3 rifles, one to shoot and film, one to abuse and a third for a spare and close up filming.

Mike spent a day with Selleck and made some minor changes in the movie. In the scene where they were chasing the Aboriginies over the cliff, the script called for Quigley to rein his horse to a halt and shoot from his horse. Mike informed them, that wasn’t a good way to shoot accurately, and he would be better advised to get off his horse and use a rest. In the movie you will see Quigley dismount and shoot over a rock.

The scene where Quigley is at the store toward the end of the movie, he is talking to the shop owner about bullets to use in his experimental rifle “the Sharps” and what crossover from British bullets would suit the gun Quigley was shooting. Mike knew what the Brits had that would work in Quigley’s gun and he cast those bullets to reload his cartridges,

At the end of the movie, when Quigley was standing in the corral holding his rifle, you will see he has the butt on the toe of his boot. During the time Selleck spent with Mike on the range, he noticed Mike would rest the butt of his rifle on his boot and asked why he did that. Mike told him that it will protect the buttplate from getting scratched or dirty and won’t transfer debris to his shoulder when he would continue firing the rifle.

Just som Quigley trivia I doubt anyone would know...

I don't know what a Hindenburg mold is but the best adjustable .442" paper patch bullet mold for patching to bore diameter out there is made by KAL Tool. They cost over $200 plus handles. Mine will make it's max size at 625 grs or so 1 in 20 tin to lead. With the 2 7/8" case (45-110) those load to right at 4.5". Made some at 1 in 16 at 566 grs for my brother and his 45-120 (3 .25")case they loaded out at 4.9". Some people don't understand it... but there is a certain charm in a loaded cartridge that hangs over both sides of your palm when you hold it. MB

Bob, a "Hindenburg" in context of Quigley guns looks a lot like the pic below. Your 625 grainer would qualify.



If you don't mind, the .442" diameter seems a bit smallish to me. What's your finished diameter when patched? Asking because I have minimal experience with patching for BP guns and what I've done used cross strip patches so the dims were quite a bit tighter. Wrapped patches that I've done were for smokeless and for a .44 Mag. Bullet is .422 and patched to .430" final w/9# onion skin.

Dan knowing that you are an accuracy seeker, if the gun happens to be a Shiloh or recent C Sharps, you'll have a much more harmonious outcome with a .446 bullet wrapped in 7 or 8 lb paper.

Thanks.....sounds like what I was thinking and I'll make a note.

If it's a Pedersoli or one of the older Shiloh or C Sharps, with the generously sized chambers or throats, then going with something .450 diameter before patching may be the best bet. As to Zepher sized bullets, the barrel twist will determine the length the gun will handle if you go to shooting past 200 yards. Way back in the late 70's early 80's we had decent results in a 3 1/4 shooting the 550 grain patched bullet RCBS sells, but nothing coming close the accuracy that folks serious about paper patching today come up with.

Didn't know the background on that and the info is appreciated. I backed into the world of paper patch on a lark and shortly thereafter was thoroughly hooked. It is quite remarkable what ol' Lord Black and a piece of lead can do, accuracy wise. In younger years I was one of the "BP can't possibly be accurate" crowd but have since gotten over that myth. Fact of it is I've found that paper patch can even help smokeless guns shoot a fair bit better than factory jacketed loads. And it will flat out put the splat on critters.

Some of my experiences and I'll let the pics do the talking:







Bullet on top is a Lyman 457125 that casts at about 530 grains with 30:1



Tossed 5 out of it a couple months back using some Swiss 1.5 FG and an old school tang sight.

Last one that makes me giggle a bit...

Did this out in Cody a few years back with a .40 cal slug gun that uses grease groove bullets, mould by Dave Mos and a dash of Swiss. 200 yards in a full value L-R breeze of 15G25. Those Wyoming breezes can be quite educational.

I had always heard that the throw-down rifle had an aluminum barrel to make it easier to swing around and toss. Don't know if that is true, but it is a persistent rumor.

The NRA was raffling off one of the rifles and quite a few people were interested in it, until they realized that it was valued in the 6-figure range and the IRS would be expecting taxes on that value. I don't know if it ever sold in the end.

The Quigley, not a Quigley

Dan the .442" TGBS bullets I cast patch to .449" with 9 lb onionskin I use them in my 45-70's for the most part .In my 45-110 which has an original style chamber I use a .440" TGBS KAL mold set at 1.465" and it patches to .4495" with Bienfang vellum paper. It's heavy and tough which works for me when pushed with 100-108 grs in my 2 7/8". It is also accurate enough at 1 mile to get on the mile target. MB

Thanks for that. I assume you're patching to something slightly over bore diameter. 2 wraps, maybe 3?

2 wraps Dan, all my loads use lube wads early in the summer you can manage the fouling with a blow tube as the season progresses and humidity drops I wipe after every shot. I like shooting original style loads and mine can be used at gong shoots or on meat. .450" bore and .458" groove diameter MB

Thanks, interesting info.

Only place down here a fella can see a mile is on the interstate in some places, or offshore.

Don't know how you can tolerate that, but to each his own. Thing is the patched bullets have to be under bore dia. as they are only seated 1/8" into the case.The bullet is in the rifling waiting for the explosion to bump them up. MB

This rifle using the .446 diameter money bullet from a BACO mould wrapped in Seth Cole 55 w (2 wraps) with a thin Napa rubber cork gasket wad punched with a Cornell press mounted wad punch, on top of 105 grains of OE 1f. and a muzzleloader original dry lubed felt wad, bullet seated about 3/8 inch into Norma case. Wiped between shots


Fired this group at 1000 yards from prone off cross ticks. That white bull is 22 inches in diameter.

Are these 550 grainers Hindenburgish enough ?



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Bob, it's a thankless task but somebody has to do it.

Ranch, that be a fancy stick your totin' around and it seems to shoot pretty fair. Thanks.

Woody, I gotta say yes. Or you might think I'm disturbed.

Dan that Borchardt is so sweet..
Thinking about another one, in less of a powder consumptive cartridge.

Ranch, where do you get those beauties?

Thanks for the clarification. I read somewhere that the "abuse" rifle had an aluminum barrel to make it easier to toss. Clearly they were all built by Shiloh.

Can you confirm?

Paul

Dan if which beautie's?
The rifle was one I got 3rd hand but basically unfired, that was built up by Rich McKinney off of a military action. They do pop up occasionally on the typical online places. Matter of fact there was one that just sold on Gunbroker that was a 45-70,, the price was low enough I was really tempted to get it and have a 44 barrel spun on to it and chambered for 44-70 st.
The rounds I build off of Norma, or Jamison brass, and some of the old stretched and formed 348 brass that BACO sold. The bullets I cast from the BACO .446 535 Money bullet mould using 16-1.

I just called Kirk at Shiloh to confirm that there were 3 rifles made for the movie. Just as I said previously, there were 3 rifles made, one as the star of the show, 1 that got abused and the 3rd for close up pictures and as a spare if it was needed.

There were no aluminum barrels or rifles with aluminum barrels, just the 3 rifles that I described...

Help me Lord, I may have to buy another safe.

Some folks go gaga on the Quigley model rifle, still don't really know why. One year at the Quigley a guy pulls up next to where we were camped and asks if he can, we told him sure go ahead. He came by later after setting up his new tent and wanted to shoot the sh*t. Said he didn't know if he would shoot in the shoot as he had a new rifle and had never loaded bp rd 1.Come to find out that he bought a used Quiigly 45-110 from the Cabelas Gun Library up in Seattle or some damn place. Paid a lot of cash for a gun with someone else's gold plated initials in it. He had stopped at BACO on the way to Montana and they sold him half the store. Sold him some ready to go greaser loads too but after looking at my ppb loads he got a glazed look in his eye and looked unstable. He had some Swiss 1.5 and vag wads, plus primers, I intro'ed him to a vender that had some .442" TGBS bullets to sell and some patches, get the long story short we made him and his gun a successful shooter. Now them Quig models got a hard steel curved butt. After 75 rds the poor guy was black and blue and green on his whole right side even after him putting a kickease slip on pad over it. He managed to get 5/8 on the buffalo at 805 yds so he was still a happy camper. Next year he didn't make it out and on the year after that he did with a new Montana Roughrider chambered for 45-2.4" with a shotgun butt did better without the beating. I don't think a guy can have to many Shilohs but them ones with the rifle butt look better in the gunsafe than on the firing line. just my 2 cents on that. MB

The 110 will certainly beat you up if you don't pace yourself even with the shotgun butt.. found that out the hard way several yrs ago.

You could have saved us all a bunch of time by not writing that...

Lead, paper and Lord Black sure has gotten more technical over the last 150 years or so, right?

I'll be taking my 45-110 Sharps and the 550 gr PP Hindenburg's to our Silhouette - BPCR/HPRS competition this spring.

Most likely get my clock cleaned by some old 80 yr old fart but it'll be fun anyway !


https://engc.us/disciplines/silhouette?page2731=3&size2731=5

Just be patient Woody, you'll be 80 someday.

IIRC, one of the movie rifles was on display here at the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum some years ago; haven't been out there in a while, might not still be there.

No not really, the ones that shoot for tiny little groups and long range were very meticulous about how things were done. Then as now the ones that are ok with hitting something every couple of shots or so , not so much.

You mean ol' Billy Dixon was meticulous?

Dan

PS: Was being a little bit of a wisenhiemer re: "technical".

Ol Billy bought a case (1000)of factory rounds for his new 44 the night before the fight.

Me too.

Yup that is right, and then he left them at the store and went to the bar where he ended up using the bartender's big fifty to make good Indians out of bad ones. Guess he had to save his 44's for the buffalo huh? MB

For the ultimate clarification:

I talked to Mike Venturino about this a couple days ago and he told me the real scoop. There WAS an aluminum barrel made for the gun used in the fight scene at the dock at the beginning of the movie. Evidently, when they were filming the fight, the gun was too heavy to manage and they went back to Shiloh, which at that time was owned by Wolfgang Droge, and he made the aluminum barrel for the Sharps he had already made.

Mike said he saw and handled the barrel. The producers sent Mike a copy of the script, which he had them change in the scenes I had previously mentioned. I hope this clears up some questionable aspects of the movie which is the reason for the tread in the first place...

I have shot BPCR silhouette at the ENGC and I'll be 80 by the time of the match, but I won't be there to put your prediction to the test, as I moved far away. You might run into my son, though.

You can most certainly have fun, but a .45-110 will be lonely beast at a silhouette match. To steal a line from Matthew Quigley " I never had much use for one". I have done respectably in long range BPCR with a stoked up .45-70, meaning paper patched bullets seated way out over 80 grs. of Swiss 1/2. Billy Dixon match at steel Comanches at 1500 yards. Much fun!

Paul

Paul. I would welcome having you "clean my clock" just for the meet and greet ..I started this BP journey way too late in life and have no intentions of becoming a competitor just a hunter with a big fire stik however a silhouette match at least once has always been on my radar.

And with all the devastation from the flooding and repairing our deer camp house out West may not even make it to Meet..

Paul and chance you and Pete will be at Alliance in May?