One Incident and now no one has the right to protect themselves anyone, the Drug dealers, buglers, and Criminals in Nz would be so happy to hear this.
No you can rob someone and the most they can do is call the cops who are usually late to the scene. Maybe i should move to NZ. LOL.
Some misunderstanding here. You still have the right to protect yourself in a life or death situation. That won't change. The present government is not trying to ban all firearms. They've just indicated that they want to ban semi-automatic rifles. If there is a change, it will be to ban military style, thirty shot mag assault rifles. No changes to firearms laws have occurred yet. That's politicians for you; they have to be seen to do something in the wake of the tragedy last Friday. Still they'll have a fight on their hands as those that have an interest in those type of firearms won't role over easily.
"The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the “.257 Bob.” I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal
Zeissman. I do. I did yesterday. Actually, it's one of the places I feel most vulnerable. We have a divorce going on in our church. The husband is unstable, nut job. The wife, her parents, and brothers family attend. Great place to find them all.
Couple that with, A crowd, Backs to the door, Limited escape routes, Christians. (Not really a thing here, but who knows).
Unbelievable to consider this in a country church of 50 people. But, here we are......
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
"The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the “.257 Bob.” I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal
I think the point that Zeissman is trying to get across is that NZ has been, and will continue to be a relatively safe place where there is no need to go about armed or to hold a gun for protection against an undefined threat.
One reason for this is the lack of guns in the general population when compared to America.
50 people killed in NZ is a terrible thing to happen. The last one was 1990, then 2019 - 29 years between mass shooting events.
50 people killed is a fraction of the gun deaths in the US each year where 29 months between mass shooting events is unlikely.
Think about relative safety and need for guns to 'protect' yourself. Perhaps other countries have a better attitude than some, perhaps they still have some sense of 'community' instead of their citizens constantly looking to their individual 'rights' rather than their collective responsibilities?
Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by zeissman
Well, all I can say is that I have a gut feeling many here do have a firearm for self defence but won't admit to it on any legal document. I may be wrong about that because we don't have the problem you guys have with criminals being armed. Some are obviously, but they tend to be gang members and drug dealers who deal with their own kind.
So you have to lie to your Government to have a fire arm for self preservation............Freedom at it highest level!!
Still no answer on that gun control question?
You sir, are an idiot.
Lets see how well you go holding out against just your local Sheriff's force, let alone state or federal law enforcement. This attitude of 'we will not abide government tyranny and have guns to fight it' is rubbish. A small professionally trained team will overcome a large, disorganised and untrained force any given night. You and your militia buddies are disorganised rabble.
My visits to NZ suggest it is a very free and egalitarian part of the world to live in. Perhaps you should get out of the lower 48 a bit?
The simple fact is that we don't need to have firearms for self defence because no one threatens us. The last home invasion where someone was killed happened over 20 years ago. That's the point that some of you guys don't seem to understand.
News flash, you just had over 40 people killed! So YES, you do obviously need guns for self-defense!
Had any of them been armed and willing fight back, those numbers would have been greatly reduced!
You ignore the fact that guns don't kill anyone. Evil people kill. There are untold numbers of people who prevented attacks because they had the means to protect themselves, a loved one or a total stranger. Thank god for America's 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. Too bad none of those killed in New Zealand had that same right!
It was extremely rare incident so no one expected it and didn't feel the need to arm themselves. Especially here in NZ which WAS considered one of the safest places in the world. Firearm deaths per capita in the U.S. far outnumber any other western nation. Why do you think that is? Could it be because of your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms?
Originally Posted by Adamjp
I think the point that Zeissman is trying to get across is that NZ has been, and will continue to be a relatively safe place where there is no need to go about armed or to hold a gun for protection against an undefined threat.
Well said and dead right.
"The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the “.257 Bob.” I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal
The simple fact is that we don't need to have firearms for self defence because no one threatens us. The last home invasion where someone was killed happened over 20 years ago. That's the point that some of you guys don't seem to understand.
In 2012 you had 52,937 Unlawful entry with intent/burglary, break and enter.
2006: Greg Carvell shot a machete-wielding Ricky Beckham, 29, in the stomach with a handgun at his father's Penrose gunshop. Police charged him with possession of a pistol for unlawful purposes but in June 2007 the charges were dismissed.
April 2009: The owner of Tokoroa's Aotea Chinese Restaurant and Takeaways, Zhuo Feng Jiang, wrestled a semi-automatic .22 rifle off a masked robber and shot him in the leg. Police decided against charging Mr Jiang.
A 68-year-old Auckland pharmacist at the centre of a police investigation into the death of an intruder in his store has been through a "very, very traumatic" ordeal, his family said last night.
25 Aug, 2010: The Herald understands pharmacist Grant Gillard - who was confronted by the burglar in his shop early yesterday - struggled with the man and was holding him down before he went into cardiac arrest.
Police tried to revive the middle-aged man - who has not been identified - but he died on the floor of the Mt Albert pharmacy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little less than 20 years ago.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
Here is an excellent video regarding how NZ (and some other countries) refuse to issue licenses to people to own a firearm if they say they would use it for "self defense."
I know the liberals/progressives here in the U.S. would love to have these anti-self defense laws passed here.
The simple fact is that we don't need to have firearms for self defence because no one threatens us. The last home invasion where someone was killed happened over 20 years ago. That's the point that some of you guys don't seem to understand.
In 2012 you had 52,937 Unlawful entry with intent/burglary, break and enter.
2006: Greg Carvell shot a machete-wielding Ricky Beckham, 29, in the stomach with a handgun at his father's Penrose gunshop. Police charged him with possession of a pistol for unlawful purposes but in June 2007 the charges were dismissed.
April 2009: The owner of Tokoroa's Aotea Chinese Restaurant and Takeaways, Zhuo Feng Jiang, wrestled a semi-automatic .22 rifle off a masked robber and shot him in the leg. Police decided against charging Mr Jiang.
A 68-year-old Auckland pharmacist at the centre of a police investigation into the death of an intruder in his store has been through a "very, very traumatic" ordeal, his family said last night.
25 Aug, 2010: The Herald understands pharmacist Grant Gillard - who was confronted by the burglar in his shop early yesterday - struggled with the man and was holding him down before he went into cardiac arrest.
Police tried to revive the middle-aged man - who has not been identified - but he died on the floor of the Mt Albert pharmacy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little less than 20 years ago.
None of those are home invasions that resulted in murder. So a burglar died of cardiac arrest. Another one got shot in the leg. Another shot in the guts. All survived. Terrible statistics for 4.5 million people for 13 years wouldn't you say.
"The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the “.257 Bob.” I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal
No, he is not spot on. He doesn't understand or can't comprehend the lack of firearms crime here and assumes that everybody is in danger 24/7.
"The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the “.257 Bob.” I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal
The simple fact is that we don't need to have firearms for self defence because no one threatens us. The last home invasion where someone was killed happened over 20 years ago. That's the point that some of you guys don't seem to understand.
News flash, you just had over 40 people killed! So YES, you do obviously need guns for self-defense!
Had any of them been armed and willing fight back, those numbers would have been greatly reduced!
You ignore the fact that guns don't kill anyone. Evil people kill. There are untold numbers of people who prevented attacks because they had the means to protect themselves, a loved one or a total stranger. Thank god for America's 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. Too bad none of those killed in New Zealand had that same right!
It was extremely rare incident so no one expected it and didn't feel the need to arm themselves. Especially here in NZ which WAS considered one of the safest places in the world. Firearm deaths per capita in the U.S. far outnumber any other western nation. Why do you think that is? Could it be because of your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms?
Originally Posted by Adamjp
I think the point that Zeissman is trying to get across is that NZ has been, and will continue to be a relatively safe place where there is no need to go about armed or to hold a gun for protection against an undefined threat.
Well said and dead right.
I could only guess where you pull your stats! Suicides, gangbangers shooting each other, accidentals, etc. etc. are all conveniently thrown in to skew the numbers to fit the narrative of the left wingers. Without the 2nd Amendment, our government would be changed into a socialist cesspool and all the great things about the US and it's influence of on the world (that includes you) would go to hell in short order!
I'm glad you made it through the US, unscathed, from all of our wild west shootings...but it's like anywhere else in the world: you better know where you feet are taking you, because there is plenty of bad spots to avoid, regardless of the continent you are currently perched upon.
New Zealand is one of my top 3 places to visit for a length of stay before I leave this earth and that hasn't changed. Don't let your politicians take away your torches & pitch forks for fighting off the nighttime beasties, especially when the politicians themselves are the biggest beasties you'll likely encounter! I think I'll keep the 2nd Amendment and risk the wild west, thank you!
Firearm deaths per capita in the U.S. far outnumber any other western nation. Why do you think that is? Could it be because of your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms?
The problem in America with gun violence isn't a problem of our ethnically European population. It's a non-White problem, mostly Blacks who (even though they make up only 15% of the population) account for a whopping half of our murder and violent crime rate annually (the majority of the remainder is accounted for by our Mestizo population). Statistics on American violent crime that only account for White Americans look like those of Denmark, Belgium, Norway, etc..
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Yes, I carry in church. Because I have the right to defend myself. In fact, I was asked to carry by the pastor!
Liberalism is a cancer Support Christian Family values
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
You simply don't understand. The 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
You'd rather a hot head pull a gun (like they just did and kill 40+ people) instead of allowing responsible people the ability to protect themselves. I choose to protect myself and loved ones instead of being a helpless sheep hoping it doesn't happen.
I understand perfectly your 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I've also lived in RI and I'll wager I've seen more of the U.S. than 95% the members of the campfire.
Tell me if you will, do think the average citizen carries a gun to church in the U.S. assuming they go to one?
Yes, I carry in church. Because I have the right to defend myself. In fact, I was asked to carry by the pastor!
As do I, my wife in the choir...and as our pastor does..in the pulpit.
I think the point that Zeissman is trying to get across is that NZ has been, and will continue to be a relatively safe place where there is no need to go about armed or to hold a gun for protection against an undefined threat.
One reason for this is the lack of guns in the general population when compared to America.
50 people killed in NZ is a terrible thing to happen. The last one was 1990, then 2019 - 29 years between mass shooting events.
50 people killed is a fraction of the gun deaths in the US each year where 29 months between mass shooting events is unlikely.
Think about relative safety and need for guns to 'protect' yourself. Perhaps other countries have a better attitude than some, perhaps they still have some sense of 'community' instead of their citizens constantly looking to their individual 'rights' rather than their collective responsibilities?
Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by zeissman
Well, all I can say is that I have a gut feeling many here do have a firearm for self defence but won't admit to it on any legal document. I may be wrong about that because we don't have the problem you guys have with criminals being armed. Some are obviously, but they tend to be gang members and drug dealers who deal with their own kind.
So you have to lie to your Government to have a fire arm for self preservation............Freedom at it highest level!!
Still no answer on that gun control question?
You sir, are an idiot.
Lets see how well you go holding out against just your local Sheriff's force, let alone state or federal law enforcement. This attitude of 'we will not abide government tyranny and have guns to fight it' is rubbish. A small professionally trained team will overcome a large, disorganised and untrained force any given night. You and your militia buddies are disorganised rabble.
My visits to NZ suggest it is a very free and egalitarian part of the world to live in. Perhaps you should get out of the lower 48 a bit?
So, you think our founding father were fools, creating the 2A, they made a mistake and its time to abolish it for the betterment of all? Now this is it, the world is a violent place, guns or not. maybe bloody wars have been fought and billions have died without the help of guns, Humans are very creative, they will find another way to get evil done and you all we will guns were still legal for all.
Remember the Brits were repelled by iron smiths, farmer etc. because they had the knowledge of many guns. Do not be deceived politrickians are always with security details who carry guns, they are protected, live in a nice and safe environment. so they don't face the same challenges like the common man. they pretend that they understand how it feels when a 19year old girl is walking home from school or work and don't feel safe. all the antigun activist will change their minds if one of their family member got killed by illegals or due to the fact that they live in a state that couldn't allow them to lawfully carry weapons. Newzealand, is s small country and doesn't face the same challenges we do so its senseless to use the same ruler to measure the level of fairness for both country.
Adamjp - " I think the point that Zeissman is trying to get across is that NZ has been, and will continue to be a relatively safe place where there is no need to go about armed or to hold a gun for protection against an undefined threat.
One reason for this is the lack of guns in the general population when compared to America.
50 people killed in NZ is a terrible thing to happen. The last one was 1990, then 2019 - 29 years between mass shooting events.
50 people killed is a fraction of the gun deaths in the US each year where 29 months between mass shooting events is unlikely. ..."
How"clever" of you and Zeissman to [u]not[/u] use populations of the two countries to make your assumptions. New Zeeland has +/- 4,900,000 people living there: the United States has +/- 310,000,000 people, NOT including +/- 20,000,000 illegal aliens. It can only stand to logical reason that the United States will have more violent crime, often committed by criminals with guns, than New Zeeland.
But, on a per capita basis, what percentage of NZ residents own firearms? As many per capita as the citizens of the United States?? That would be an interesting figure to consider in your absurd assumption that NZ has little violent crime compared to the U.S., because you have such strict restrictions on firearms. I can assure you that -- although it'll never happen -- if NZ had 310,000,000 citizens plus 20,000,000 illegal aliens of all races, cultures, religions and non-religions, you'd have the same rates of violent crime we have here in the U.S.
Gun control only disarms the honest people. Criminals do not bother to obey the anti-firearms laws and it is absolute nonsense to think they do. Liberals are unable to understand this axiomatic fact.
If you're going to debate, try to debate logically.
L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
The simple fact is that we don't need to have firearms for self defence because no one threatens us. The last home invasion where someone was killed happened over 20 years ago. That's the point that some of you guys don't seem to understand.
Sounds like paradise. I would imagine there is no need for policemen in new Zealand?
And if there is, why do you need them?
In case of American visitors
Always good to feel "at home". . In that case, how about importing a few thousand 2-legged ghetto rats from the US to make us comfy.....
Oh- you didn't mean it like that....
As to "lying to your government" - who doesn't? Somehow. Governments lie to the citizens - turnabout is fair.... Have at it!
![[Linked Image from images7.memedroid.com]](https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED555/651dcaab819c9.jpeg)
