Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Sam Houston

Sorry you were abandoned, Karl. I'm sure that explains a lot of your current views.

What I find ironic, however, is that you support the party that promotes the kind of behavior that got you tossed aside like so much week-old fish.

Have all these conversations and convinced to vote D the rest of their lives. Gonna have to say that intelligence shows a lack of...

Ed Burleson in particular was the real deal, a man among men in his time and place I take stock in his opinion of folks.

One thing that impresses me about Burleson was the fact that he was smart enough to cultivate a friendship with the cannibal War Chief Placido of the Tonkawas, recognizing what a formidable band of warrior the Tonks actually were, even though always few in number. It was Ed Burleson who enlisted Placido and around thirty of his warriors to run the twenty five miles or so overnight to take part in the famous 1840 Battle of Plum Creek, where as it turns out they did most of the killing and all of the stock recovery. Burleson knew his man.

The Tonks are generally all but written out of the script in popular Texas history, which is a pity, in their day were highly regarded and/or feared by those who knew them. Quanah Parker for one in 1874 wanted to go against their inveterate enemies the Tonks on their reserve in Oklahoma rather than the buffalo hunters at Adobe Walls, and by that time there were only a relative handful of Tonks left. Even so, because they were consistently guiding Ranald MacKenzie's cavalry down on them Parker considered the Tonkawas a greater threat.

Thanks to Mike & Bob on the info on Houston’s / Burleson’s ongoing feud and hatred for each other. Puts it into a better perspective for me. Learn something good everyday here on the Camp🔥 from our many knowledgeable members.
I had read somewhere before that Quanah Parker and the Comanche’s hated the Tonks. Seems like I also read somewhere that the Comanches eliminated what was left of them quickly when they all reached the Reservations in OK Territory. Maybe one of you two have read something else about this?

Birdy and I made a trip a while back to the old Manor hill ( aka JJ Manor) cemetery in the environs of the highlands above Webber’s prairie. This was the actual locale of many of the early settlers homesteads and not Webberville down on the river.

We reflected on "Puss" Webber, Edwin Webber’s mulatto wife, loaning the local Tonkawas her washpot to use as a cookpot for a Comanche prisoner they had captured, tortured, and killed. (Then boiled for lunch).

Also we visited the Coleman massacre site where Col. Robert Coleman’s wife and eldest son were killed by the Comanches. The small creek there that crosses the highway is still known as Coleman’s branch on the maps.

Dang I’m jealous. Visiting historic sites with you two old farts would have been a blast! 🤠

The impression i get re: the Tonkawas is that they practiced a particularly dark form of spirituality hated and feared by other tribes. From the accounts we have theComanches’ reaction to them leans towards a sort of hysterical hatred, perhaps folks killing and eating your relatives can incite that sort of sentiment.

We tend to think that the Comanches had it all their own way on the Texas Plains, not so. From Gregg we get accounts of Pawnee war parties traveling on foot deep inside Comancheria with the intention of returning home on Comanche horses. Apparently the Tonkawas practiced the same MO.

The Tonkawas were always far outnumbered by the Comanches, yet their villages persisted within range of Comanche war parties for at least the 34 years between Plum Creek and the Red River War while remaining implacably hostile.

The famous Placido himself had two Comanche wives, both likely captured, so he was screwing some Comanches while eating others, and IIRC he survived to a reasonably old age.

Famous Ranger Captain RIP Ford enlisted the assistance 100 of the Brazos Reserve Tonkawas in his 1860 expedition against Buffalo Hump’s Comanches encamped in the Wichitas. Ford in his memoirs calls the Tonkawas superior men with a encyclopedic knowledge of the West. Point of interest it was a Tonkawa that shot the legendary Comanche Iron Jacket in his Spanish mail with a skillful shot with a .53cal Mississippi rifle.

100 men of combat age implies a total population of a 1,000or less in 1860. Fourteen years later MacKenzie employs 30 as scouts which we are given to understand was most of what was left. Though so few in number, they were still killing and eating Comanches.

The Indian Territory (Oklahoma) was an exceedingly rough place, and more’n a few Indians there besides Comanches had it in for the Tonkawas. It is my understanding that the few survivors intermarried among the Caddos.

Nevertheless the modern day Tonkawas apparentl still persist as a separate tribal entity up in Oklahoma.

http://www.tonkawatribe.com/

Mike, the Tonkawa’s must of been some bad SOB’s.
Any good books you can recommend on them?
I’m not too far from where the Brazos Reservations were located, as the crow flies.

Our Boy Scout Camp that we went to in the summertime was called CampTonkawa. It’s located close to a major creek which was a great source for finding arrowheads and also runs parallel kinda to the Texas Fort Trails

" Point of interest it was a Tonkawa that shot the legendary Comanche Iron Jacket in his Spanish mail with a skillful shot with a .53cal Mississippi rifle."

Kit Carson when asked what rifle the aspiring pioneer should obtain for a westward trek, his answer was the "Mississippi Rifle". (US Rifle, Model1841).

Was that a smooth bore Bob ?

No it was a rifle.

It was also refered to as the American Jäger rifle.

Saw a replica once but I couldn’t remember

Yeah many of the replica Mississippi’s from Italy are the Civil War variant rebored to .58 calibre. However Euroarms did make some .54’s

I read about an Osage war party traveling on foot to what is now Southwest OK in the Wichita Mointains ansnkilling every man woman and child in a Comanche village and putting their heads in several piles.

Yep. The Italian .58 cal version was the one I saw.

Someone from another forum gave you the information (not to mention that it was 5-years old and inaccurate), but it was YOU that endeavored to USE that information and distribute it to your surrogate(s) in some childish effort to intimidate me into "shutting up" because you lost a war of words in an internet forum pissing match.

Only a proud Conservative Texan could do something like that, which is something I've been witness to since moving to Texas, 5-years ago - something that has turned out to be the absolute worst blunder of my entire life, which brings me to a larger point.

Throughout my entire life, whenever I had to face hardship, whether I was 8-years old, or now, or have been witness to the hardship of others, it has always been people like you that endeavor to use a person's circumstance and/or misfortune to try and inflict more pain on them. I cannot recall one liberal ever doing anything like it - not even once. Rather, they have been the first to offer whatever compassion they could, and encourage those facing a difficulty, to ignore people like you and keep moving forward - which is why nothing you've done has worked for you.

You'd be better off taking your Godspeed and directing it toward yourself, because you need it more than I do. Now stop trying to make yourself look good on my shoulders.

So you come out of the woods swinging..

Insulting, condescending, nasty, posts and threads.

You offend everyone here.

Yet, I'm to blame not only for your lack of integrity, self respect, and self control, but now for your cancer and being stuck in Texas?

You blame "people like me" for everything.

My surrogates... LOL. You leave out the part about "my surrogates" contacting you and informing you that there are people here willing to help you. And one of those offering that help was ME. That help was offered despite your efforts of insulting and threats by you, once we learned of your situation.

When are you going to start being honest?

Go read some of your threads... Then go look in the mirror.


Yeah, I took offense to your insulting posts. Many did. Many more than you know. Free speech is a double edged sword, Karl.

You think you can come here and insult and threaten people down to their very roots, and have nobody kick back at you. But when someone does bitch slap you you, THEY are the one's that are in the wrong.

Got it.

Fine. Blame me for your being miserable. Blame me for your cancer. Blame me for whatever you want. It's what people like you do.

Had to look up the word "jamonero" after Queef Karl used it. It explains everything about him:

Urban Dictionary: jamonero
[Search domain www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jamonero] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jamonero
A perverted person that ogles over young, fresh meat, i.e. Young girls if he is straight or young to pubescent boys if he is gay. A jamonero is very open about being such and approaches his or her victims in a lecherous manner imposing sexual favors to be paid by cash, material items, etc.

I also noticed Mr. Queef states he moved to Texas about five years ago. Clearly a perfect example as to why Texas is in danger of becoming full blown democrat... You Texicans need to find this guy, a rall, some tar and feathers and give him a sendoff....

My favorite Osage story comes from the journal of Jean-Baptiste Benard de la Harpe. Who was sent to explore a big chunk of present day eastern and central Oklahoma in the early portion of the 18th century.

They came upon an Osage hunting party somewhere along the Canadian river. Thru interpretors they inquired of the Indians if the Canadian ever had more water in it that what was present. The Osage told him that what they presently saw was typical. That they had never seen much more water in it. Bet they’d like to see it now!!!!!