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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,189 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,189 Likes: 1 |
Ah…….. the old "pre-fragmented" slug argument!
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,249 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,249 Likes: 34 |
Can't y'all just accept how much them rifle bullets over penetrate? ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/DjoOHCF.jpg)
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,213 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,213 Likes: 9 |
How about the Ruger 9mm carbine
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
Just my opinion, for what it's worth, but I chose a 12ga. Pump, iron sights, and alternating deer slug and military buckshot for that purpose. (00 buck, but is labeled for military use).
I grew up with a shotgun in hand, and have no doubt what it will do, and feel like when in use. It's dead simple to operate, even in low light, no mag release to hit by mistake, there are about a dozen extra rounds on the butt stock in elastic holders, in order, buck, ball, buck, ball....
Your choice has to fit your specific needs, and only you can decide what suits your needs best, but shotguns are simple but effective, less expensive, versatile, and you will not be too upset if it gets scratched up, or dinged up.
Short shells are available if you want more capacity, as well as many shotguns have magazine tube extensions available.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,275 Likes: 2 |
Two adult male GSD's, intimate knowledge of the battlefield and a Colt LW Commander that does not miss works.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,478 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,478 Likes: 3 |
she would be best served w/ a pistol caliber carbine equipped w/ a red dot sight that can be left on for extended periods of time.
mike r The SIG Romeo 5 turns off when it sits for a while and back on when you move it. Hard to beat, IMHO.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,654 |
Shotguns suck for everything but hitting birds. There’s a reason they’re near onsoliete in LE and the military. Everything a shotgun can do an AR can do better. Save your stories about how that’s what you love and your cousin’s neighbor who’s a cop used one or in 1970 you used one in the military.
They’re heavier, slower to load, hold less ammo (that’s a great combination), slower to shoot, have more recoil, malfunctions are harder to clear, and at room distances you still have to aim them. So why not aim something that is lighter, easier to load, holds more ammo, with less recoil, that’s faster to shoot?
And when you start putting a lot of rounds through them they’re just as prone to parts breakage and malfunctions as any other gun mentioned. Remington 870s especially.
If shotguns had never been invented and somebody started producing them today there’s not a single legitimate LE agency or military unit that would field them because without nostalgia their faults would be glaringly obvious.
Rant over.
Having messed with quite a few PCCs I wouldn’t try one for HD (but I’ve neber messed with the Beretta). They’re very difficult to get reliable and the blowback models have as much recoil as a properly built AR. It’s just like shooting an AR, but with a pistol bullet.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,249 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,249 Likes: 34 |
Monkeys running across the tree tops are easier to bag with a shotgun than a M16.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044 |
Sam, for the sake of clarity let me say that I'm talking about in-house SD. Were I on the front porch plinking at someone at distance I'd not suggest birdshot. Inside a residential structure of average size, say 1,000 to 2500 sq ft you aren't going to "pepper" someone with birdshot. They will be dead before they hit the floor, assuming center of mass/face shot placement. Shoot 'em in the lower abdomen/crotch/thighs and they will be rollin' around on the floor cryin' like the average democrat. Now that's funny. I understand that many here have limited experience with shotguns, but I'm not in that camp. Average shotgun/choke will throw a pattern of about grapefruit to basketball size at 10-15 yards. #4-6 size shot will not bounce off the average tee shirt at that distance, not by a long shot, no pun intended.
Buckshot is fine, but do be aware that it will penetrate walls, both interior and dependent upon circumstances, exterior walls. You can minimize that potential with smaller shot, say #3 or #4 buck. It has the advantage of being useful on the front porch as well.
See the pig pic I posted previously. That particular gun accounted for 77 hogs over the course of about 2.5 years up in GA. The average porker won't stop #3 buck on a broadside shot and I was surprised to find out about that. It killed 3 pair of hogs with one shot for each pair and my Ex did one of those tricks on the front porch. By that I mean the hogs were on the front porch. Crazy girl threw the door open and commenced firing, putting 5 hogs down w/4 shots. The largest was about 200#.
I know a clown up in Georgia that killed an 8 pt buck deer with a load of #8 shot at about 20' distance. He said it collapsed and never twitched after the shot. It isn't something I would have considered doing, but.... Birdshot at close range is deadly stuff, don't ever doubt that. There have been a lot of quail hunters who've killed a deer that got up at short range with 7 1/2's. I've seen it.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 341
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 341 |
If I was going to use a rifle, it’s gonna be in a rifle caliber. A 223 is most likely going to have the least chance of over penetration. Whether it’s pistols or carbines, training trumps equipment all day.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,249 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,249 Likes: 34 |
Let's put this to rest once and for all. No blast, no over penetration, no recoil and it won't scare the dog. It's ambidextrous and a nice conversation piece as well. ![[Linked Image]](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0e/cd/88/f9/olde-shillelagh.jpg)
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,351 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,351 Likes: 1 |
to each his own, but for me I do not ever want to fire a 5.56 round in a room, I don't want a shotgun because they recoil a lot and they have to be aimed just like a rifle at room ranges. OTOH as I am familiar with the ar platform I would want something that operates similar but fires a round that would not have me misunderstanding the police questions when they were being asked of me nor costing me the permanent use of my ears. .Finally in my humble opinion a 30 caliber 220 grain slug at 1000fps is about the same as a 45 caliber 230 grain slug at 1000 fps with the exception that they make nice hollow points for the 45 caliber slug that expand nicely at this velocity, thus the 45 would probably make nice .60 caliber holes thru what ever you shot with it, thus what ever you had put the .60 caliber holes thru would probably cease and desist any attempts at further harm on very short notice.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,714 Likes: 54
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,714 Likes: 54 |
The ONLY reason this schit is sooooooooooo fhuqkling utterly HILARIOUS,is because you Dumbfhuqks are doing your best. Congratulations?!?
Bless your Drooling hearts.
Hint.
LAUGHING!..........................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,040 Likes: 29
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,040 Likes: 29 |
Dry fire practice the home invasion thing.
Daytime , nightime.
Places of cover to use ( schitt that stops bullets)
Tell family members their actions ( stay laying on the floor behind cover is good )
If family members are in the fight they need to practice also.
High capacity m4 or AR shorty platform 1st , high capacity pistol after.
Or whatever your choose for a wpn.
Lots of rounds down range fast with some dispersion work.
Use guns your willing to have held as evidence for a long period of time.
Make sure mofo is dead. ( cant testify in court)
coup de grace a mofo if needed in manner that ain't ballisticly incriminating. I.E. from your last firing point.
Dont close the distance and gak the fugger from a foot away.
Leaving schit loads of ballistic, powder residue and blood evidence for Mr CSI guy to put together and be used against you in court.
Dont take my advice I have zero experience in CQB or MOUT.
whatever you do
Dont practice dry fire day and night either
And definately dont tell or have family members practice their actions if they are in or out of the fight.
And as far as blowing out your ears or others.
That point is lame....
I would rather be alive and a little deaf.
Also plenty of inexpensive CQB muzzle devices on the market.
All JMO
YMMV
Last edited by renegade50; 07/07/19.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,714 Likes: 54
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,714 Likes: 54 |
Gay'd,
You are a fhuqking JOKE.
Hint..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,210 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,210 Likes: 9 |
to each his own, but for me I do not ever want to fire a 5.56 round in a room, I don't want a shotgun because they recoil a lot and they have to be aimed just like a rifle at room ranges. OTOH as I am familiar with the ar platform I would want something that operates similar but fires a round that would not have me misunderstanding the police questions when they were being asked of me nor costing me the permanent use of my ears. .Finally in my humble opinion a 30 caliber 220 grain slug at 1000fps is about the same as a 45 caliber 230 grain slug at 1000 fps with the exception that they make nice hollow points for the 45 caliber slug that expand nicely at this velocity, thus the 45 would probably make nice .60 caliber holes thru what ever you shot with it, thus what ever you had put the .60 caliber holes thru would probably cease and desist any attempts at further harm on very short notice. If I'm firing off any round inside my house, it's already a very bad day.....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,040 Likes: 29
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,040 Likes: 29 |
Gay'd,
You are a fhuqking JOKE.
Hint.................. Are you talking to me??? Outta the blue cause you feel the need to say something????? Cause I really Dgaf about you. To be honest with you. One good hard delibrate punch in your Laynrx would put you down, then about 3 good hard body weight elbow blows in one of your temples. Would take care of your little rabid female dog attitude permanent like. You have a nice day " Big Stick".
Last edited by renegade50; 07/07/19. Reason: Added the word "female"........
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,128 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,128 Likes: 11 |
We like to over-think this stuff.
We could defend the home pretty well with a 10/22 stoked with them CCI Veloci-Taters.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,714 Likes: 54
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,714 Likes: 54 |
Oh my...the RETARDS are restless.
Everything fired inside doors is loud. Everything fired indoors is Lethal. Proficiency cain't be purchased,to the chagrin of Window Lickers everywhere.
Pardon Facts,colliding with Fantasies.
Hint...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,351 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,351 Likes: 1 |
25 ACP - 155.0 dB
.32 LONG - 152.4 dB
.32 ACP - 153.5 dB
.380 - 157.7 dB
9mm - 159.8 dB
.38 S&W - 153.5 dB
.38 Spl - 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum - 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum - 163.2 dB
.44 Spl - 155.9 dB
.45 ACP - 157.0 dB
.45 COLT - 154.7 dB
162-165 dB non-suppressed 5.56mm rifle
dB is exponential think of every 3 intervals as a doubling of the level.
having shot outdoors 9mm, 45 ACP, 357 magnum, 16.5 inch 5.56 without ear pro the worst was 357 magnum, followed by 9mm, followed by the 16.5 inch 5.56, followed by 45ACP in my hearings opinion. I have not and will not shoot a 10.5 inch 5.56 without ear pro, but it is concussive even with ear pro. I am just guessing which I admit as I have not fired a 45 ACP indoors but based on outdoors results the 5 inch barreled 45ACP was not as bad as the others.
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