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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,981 |
There could be several reasons for their apparent effectiveness! Some hunters/outdoorsmen may shoot the long gun too early in the attack, missing the CNS, and “not” have time for a second shot. The bear may so close when the attack occurs, that a rifle cannot be put into use. The handgun can still be put into use while the bear is mauling the hunter/outdoorsman. The handgun user, may actually be more familiar with his firearm......he may shoot/practice more! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
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Most of those appear to have been handgun vs black bear, not brown. If you look at all data available in total, you see spray works better on brown bears, while handguns work better on black bears. Avoiding the things works better than either.
Living in a world of G17s and 700s, wishing for P7s and 202s
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,705 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,705 Likes: 1 |
An Alaskan guide once told me, "If you are going to use a pistol against a grizzly, file the front sight off of it. That way it won't hurt as much when he shoves it up your ass." Did an Alaskan guide really tell you that or did you read it on every bear topic in the last 50 years?
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,324 Likes: 1 |
Most of those appear to have been handgun vs black bear, not brown. If you look at all data available in total, you see spray works better on brown bears, while handguns work better on black bears. Avoiding the things works better than either. can you share the data with us that shows that bear spray works better against the brown bears? I will be needing to make a decision as to which to bring with me, so please share that data!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,192
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,192 |
From reading the report it sounds like I'll be OK for local Blackies with either 16 rounds of FMJ 9MM or 9 of 45ACP. Or I could just spit and tell them to go away.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,395 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,395 Likes: 4 |
An Alaskan guide once told me, "If you are going to use a pistol against a grizzly, file the front sight off of it. That way it won't hurt as much when he shoves it up your ass." So oooolldd, that's no longer funny. Perhaps it was when first told 100 years ago. Much like the "all ya gotta do is shoot your pard in the knee and outrun him". No offense intended. When I began college in the Fall of 1955, I lived in an old boarding house where there were about a dozen Korean war vets, going to college on the GI Bill. I became friends with one of them, an Army veteran who'd been a paratrooper with the 187 RCT (Abn.) who jumped in Korea with the last full regiment combat jump in the Army's history. The following summer of 1956, he and a bud of his decided they'd go to Alaska for the summer, prospect for gold and strike it rich. He had a Walther 9 mm P-38 his father had brought back from WW II and given him. He'd carried it in Korea. He took it with him for "bear protection." When he returned in the Fall, I asked him how he and his bud had done? He said they did pretty well finding gold and he'd supplement his GI Bill with plenty of beer and entertainment money for the year. I asked him if he had to use his P-38 on a charging bear or anything like that? He said "No, but an old sourdough we ran into looked at my P-38 and told me, 'If you're gonna use that thing on a grizzly, file the front sight off of it. That way it won't hurt as much when he shoves it up your ass.' " As said, that was in 1956 63 years ago. That was the first time I heard it, As an aside, the following summer of 1957, my friend and his bud went back to Alaska to find more gold. When he got back to school, I asked him how he did? He said, "Didn't find a freakin' flake of gold. Damned near starved to death." He never again went back to Alaska gold prospecting. L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,391
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,391 |
My wife carries the bear spray. I spend some time in Griz country every year and have seen a few close enough to get a rush. We will spend 30 days in the areas between Jackson and Lander starting the last week of October and hope to see a bear or 3 but in reality Moose scare me more. I will, as always be wearing my Glock 19. A guy named Phil proved that a 9mm can be effective w/ some BB ammo so I will have my "Phil Drill" down to < 3 seconds. My wife carries the bear spray so I can spray some on the bear after the fact so the feds will be placated. Wind has little affect on BB 147gr. hard cast.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4 |
Did anyone start the usual 9 vs 10 vs 40 vs 45 vs 44....yet 😆
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,724
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Didnt I read on here about a eskimo killing a bear with a .22 short? Along with the 9 cs 40 vs......should I use 12 ga 3 inch buck, 4 buck or 4 pheasant load? My Hope's are the noise will be enough and i will have no paperwork to do
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,736 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,736 Likes: 1 |
An Alaskan guide once told me, "If you are going to use a pistol against a grizzly, file the front sight off of it. That way it won't hurt as much when he shoves it up your ass." So oooolldd, that's no longer funny. Perhaps it was when first told 100 years ago. Much like the "all ya gotta do is shoot your pard in the knee and outrun him". No offense intended. Well said IB. Some of these "jokes" really get old.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,949 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,949 Likes: 5 |
Most of those appear to have been handgun vs black bear, not brown Unless I counted wrong 38 out of the 73 cases were either brown, grizzly, or polar bear. It is also interesting that 9mm, 40, 45ACP, and 10mm combined for a significant number of the stops and were 100% effective. The 357 mag was only 80% effective, 4/5.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,284 Likes: 27
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,284 Likes: 27 |
As an aside, the following summer of 1957, my friend and his bud went back to Alaska to find more gold. When he got back to school, I asked him how he did? He said, "Didn't find a freakin' flake of gold. Damned near starved to death."
He never again went back to Alaska gold prospecting. grin
L.W.
There are easier ways to starve to death!
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,005 |
Unless I counted wrong 38 out of the 73 cases were either brown, grizzly, or polar bear. It is also interesting that 9mm, 40, 45ACP, and 10mm combined for a significant number of the stops and were 100% effective. The 357 mag was only 80% effective, 4/5.
I don't think the sample size is sufficient to make any significant comparisons between/among calibers. Even the lowly .22 rimfire did pretty good! I think the primary takeaway from this article is that handguns in general are better for bear defense than "conventional" wisdom has given credit to.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,391
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,391 |
This^^^^ The old saw about a pistol is just good for fighting to your rifle has always been one of those things that sounds better than it works for real.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199 |
It’s bullshiit biologists, fish and game put out do folks won’t kill grizz.. I’ll gladly take my 69 44 over spray any day
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,158 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,158 Likes: 24 |
Unless I counted wrong 38 out of the 73 cases were either brown, grizzly, or polar bear. It is also interesting that 9mm, 40, 45ACP, and 10mm combined for a significant number of the stops and were 100% effective. The 357 mag was only 80% effective, 4/5.
I don't think the sample size is sufficient to make any significant comparisons between/among calibers. Even the lowly .22 rimfire did pretty good! I think the primary takeaway from this article is that handguns in general are better for bear defense than "conventional" wisdom has given credit to. There seems to be a big gap between "Conventional wisdom" and Common sense..............
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,158 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59,158 Likes: 24 |
From reading the report it sounds like I'll be OK for local Blackies with either 16 rounds of FMJ 9MM or 9 of 45ACP. Or I could just spit and tell them to go away. No reason to get stupid about it, just have a lovely chat over tea.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,731 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,731 Likes: 1 |
Was in the Bear woods today and yes I had my 44 sp with Buff bore lead!
Deer Camp! about as good as it gets!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,844
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 20,844 |
Several years ago Brian Pierce wrote about the S&W 625 shooting auto rim loads with a 280 grain cast slug running about 900 fps..... about a month ago I posted the "attempting to lecture a bear" clip https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13993230/1I had an action job done on my 625 after the most recent bear encounter and am very pleased with how fast I can launch a bunch of lead accurately. Pretty sure a 280 grain slug at 900 fps would pass straight through any NC sized bear.
Please don't feed the trolls!
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The wife and I walked up within 25 yards of a big black bear last Saturday. I had my Glock 20 10mm along for the hike. Gotta admit, I'd rather have had my Marlin .45-70 or Benelli M1 Tactical with slugs.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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