Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet?

He was shooting a 7SAUM and was following up on the first shooter with a 308 and LRX. He called it from a seriously long distance and it took a couple hours to come to them. 54", but a "helicopter" shape. Very heavy mass both body and antlers, but likely a function of a truly great growing season. Guessing three-years-old. Hind quarters were still 130ish pounds after a long hanging.

Quartering on for the first shot at under 100 yards into shoulder, where it stayed. Second shot quartering away into ribs and the same shoulder where it stayed. Final finishing shot was in the neck at about 50 yards. It almost made it to bone. All three lost all petals and look to have tumbled. One was bent. Large mess in the shoulder and nothing more than ribs were hit for bone.

While cutting all three blue tips were found as well as most of the petals. Seriously wrong application for the bullet. I have no idea why they went that route. Sometimes he consults me, sometimes not so much.

Kids....

Yup.

A shame to pick the wrong bullet, but it at least doesn't mar the TTSX reputation then.

Jeff,

What was the problem with the partition? I would think the 458 with a 500 grain partition would be good bear medicine.

Phil have you used partitions?

Bob

Bet the big Swift would be more than fine, after reading Phils report about the 500gr Woodleighs I hope they weren't the protected point version, those are the only one's I shoot, 320gr in 9.3, 500gr in 458 and 600gr in 505.

I've shot a few 510 WW factory softs.. damn they wake you up. Would like to stay off the full 500 grain weight due to that.

Since Barnes typically loose very little if any weight unless serious bone is encountered I start a bit light with the barnes so in my mind 450 equals 500 in cup and core bullets.

Issues I've had with partitions was mostly my fault, expecting a 180 at 300 mag velocities to be an elk round if I ever did... but using it on pigs and deer finding it lost enough frontal weight to not be able to go lengthwise through decent pigs or even mid sized whitetails. I was flat amazed it would not do that.

John finally told me 180s don't do well at mag speeds, the 200 partitions were built for those bigger speeds.

But since Barnes is out and usually doesn't loose much if any weight and when ti does loose weight its still usually hanging onto more than a partition would anyway. Why not.

I finally made it to the mailbox today, its been over a week... and in the box were 2 boxes of 450 TSX to start with.

I am still amazed how my experiences with Partitions are so different from the internet. I have shot hundreds of Partitions into big game animals and and always believed perfection was the recovered bullet under the offside hide. And I believed they were nearly perfect for many, many years. My recovery rate was very high.

Once I saw the light, shining in from the exit hole, I realized how important it is to have the much better vent on the offside. I have put hundreds of Barnes bullets through big game animals and my recovery rate is far lower than many claims I have seen and orders of magnitude below Partitions. I have yet to recover an X of any iteration that I have used. At the same time I have never seen an Accubond make an exit. Nothing looks right about this to me...

My experience mirrors yours. When I'm serious its TSX ir TTSX that I load into my rifles. Great penetration with excellent wound channels.

I caught a bunch of the original X bullets on quartering shots at deer and bigger pigs when I first started using them. I was using the 180gr out of a 30/06. They all looked like magazine add bullets and killed well but I kept reading about how they almost always gave an exit and was a little puzzled. When I finally got access to a chronograph I figured it out. My favorite handload was barely breaking 2400fps at the muzzle.

Since learning a bit about how monos work and stepping down in weight and up in speed I’ve rarely caught one. Found an Etip out of a 270wby that I killed a bull elk with last fall and a petal here and there off of 53gr TSXs fired from my 222 and 223s.

Most of my Partition experiences are with the 150 out of 270WCFs, never saw one caught in a couple dozen elk killed with that load out of my dad and uncle’s rifles. Prior to the switch to the Noslers they caught a bunch of Core-Lokts and one Speer GS. I did find the front core from a 160gr 7mm under the hide beside the exit on a grizzly my dad shot with a 7SAUM. Also found the front core from a 150gr 270 beside the exit on a big bull caribou. Of course I skinned a 4’ black bear killed with the 300gr .375 H&H Federal premium load that didn’t exit on a broadside rib shot. 3 250gr TSXs from the same rifle all exited an 8’ brown bear the next day.

Don't know about all .458" bullets, but currently writing my blog about that -- should be ready in a few days.

The .458 Win Mag is my favorite cartridge. For a long time it was the .45-70 until I gave my Ruger #1 in .45-70 a long throat that turned it into the equivalent of a .458 Win Mag by seating bullets long. Now I have a Ruger #1 in .458 Win Mag with Mag-Na-Porting and a 24" barrel. It has the typical long throat of all .458 WMs, plus no action that curtails COL. It's easily the equal of a .458 Lott -- if wanted.

But now I'm shooting 300gr TSX's at 2753 for a combo bear and wolf hunt. I have pushed that bullet up to 2980 fps without qualms. A 350 TSX leaves the muzzle at 2760 fps. That's plenty, I think, for the largest of bears making nearly 6000 ft-lbs KE at the muzzle. And that has become the new "standard" for those who crimp into the bottom cannelure using the best powders.

I have just finished a series of blogs on the .458 Win Mag, for those who might be interested.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I've had a problem with a woodleigh bullet. It was a 358, 275 grain protected point. It failed to expand on a head-on shot of a 56 in racked moose. It was an impact velocity of about 2100 fps. The bull swam across the small, upper Yukon tributary. The wet hide didn't help with expansion. I dont like how the protected point has no exposed lead at the tip to help initiate expansion.

I've since switched to A-frames for my .410-9.3x62 wildcat, 9.3x62 and 358 winchester. That pure copper and pure lead expands quite well down to 1500 fps.

This year's 42 inch racked bull moose, the 300 grain A-frames worked well from the ole nine-three. Two hits were a little high and went through both scapulas, both a complete pass-through. Finally one hit square through the front end. Lots of rib and shoulder bone. He was heading for a swampy oxbow. I recovered that one against the hide on the off-side, it weighed 295.5 grains and expanded to 71 caliber. Nothing was blood-shot. Have A-frames worked good for you in 458 caliber?

Woodleigh Weldcore or Swift A-Frame in 450gr or 500gr.

Either should exit except possibly on a full lengthwise shot.

In a stopping situation where you want the wound track to be wide as well as deep, I would never even vaguely consider any mono-metal bullet. The expansion is limited, and bullet failures are common.

I think I can safely say that most of my bear guides have learned to rely on the performance of mono-metal bullets like the TSX on our big bears ! Two holes bleed more than one.

bullet failures are common. LMAO.

Had I chosen to use deeper penetrating bullets my tracking job would have been hours shorter !

20:20 hindsight is SO expensive.

Woodliegh bullets are soft and lack penetration. Mono's like the TSX or TTSX produce excellent expansion and great penetration with monotonous regularity.
You post show a complete lack of reality.

Lack of reality, Llama Bob??

You gotta be kiddin.

DF

People here keep asking LB for some pictorial evidence of his field experience with Woodleighs, since he claims the 160 WL is the GREATEST elk bullet ever in the .264 Winchester Magnum.

Woodleighs retain a lot of weight, but they expand a LOT, which does not enhance penetration. In fact, probably the biggest bonded bullet I've seen fail to exit a small "big game" animal was a 340-grain .416 Woodleigh, started at around 2600 fps--found in front of the left shoulder of a fallow-deer doe that might have weighed 100 pounds. Now, it was an angling away shot, with the bullet entering the right rear of the ribs, but....