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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,170 Likes: 17
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,170 Likes: 17 |
Lately have been buying a few steel-tubed, El Paso Weavers, mostly to put on "classic" rifles, but partly to see if they were actually as reliable as I remembered---which means they sighted-in pretty easily with the correct number of clicks, and then stayed that way. So far, so good. That does not mean they're as good as today's better scopes, but some of today's scope manufacturers could learn something from 'em.
Incidentally, Bushnell scopes orignated when Dave Bushnell took some circa-1950 Weavers to Japan and said, "Can you copy these?" The folks in Japan said sure, and did. On my first safari in 1992, the father of my PH was born and raised in what was then called Rhodesia, and had done a BUNCH of buffalo culling with his .458 Winchester, because back then it was considered "normal" to clear out wildlife to make room for domestic animals, especially cattle. The first scope he put on his .458 was a 2.5x Bushnell, during the 1950's. He still had it on his rifle, and said it had never lost zero.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
So, why can't a company reverse-engineer a couple old Weavers, a Nightforce SHV, and an SWFA, figure out what makes them reliable, then get some cheap labor somewhere to reproduce it? Seems like even Leupold could do that if they actually wanted to.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,176
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,176 |
...then get some cheap labor somewhere to reproduce it?
#MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the confidence it takes to hunt with a rifle that’s not zeroed. WOW I’d go Leupold zeroed before Swfa Nightforce or bushy unzeroed and I hate leupolds.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812 |
It helps to have excellent pointing skills....and be real close....
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199 |
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the confidence it takes to hunt with a rifle that’s not zeroed. WOW I’d go Leupold zeroed before Swfa Nightforce or bushy unzeroed and I hate leupolds. Ya unbelievable...
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
It helps to have excellent pointing skills....and be real close.... I could understand swap barrels with pre determined zero or a QD mount but to mount a fresh scope and hunt. Who in the fûck does stupid shït like that.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the confidence it takes to hunt with a rifle that’s not zeroed. WOW I’d go Leupold zeroed before Swfa Nightforce or bushy unzeroed and I hate leupolds. Ya unbelievable... Guys are impressed with videos of how to do stuff that any donkey should be able to do. Be well spoken and aggressive have a e8 rank when departing the service and tricking guys into complete bullshit ain’t hard. Hint. I zero my rifle and my CHICK kills lotta game because I zero hers as well. Rehint. 😉😉
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199 |
Oh I know, if you remember right, I've been skeptical for a loooong time... 🙄🤔
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,947
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,947 |
Hunting with good "iron" sights does provide a certain level of confidence that something mysterious hasn't happened inside 'em.... That's a major consideration for me. Maybe with today's scopes it shouldn't be but it still is. I have had more iron sights go bad while hunting than scopes. It usually was due to me being a dummy and leaning a gun against a tree and having it fall over and bend something. Happened twice before I got smart enough to stop leaning guns on things I just had another Leupold 3-9 go bad on me (wondering POI and failed to adjust; there is a thread on it). Honestly, the issue would probably not cost me a deer at 100 yds, but it doesn't build confidence and it is frustrating as heck trying to develop loads and/or sight in. On a longer range shot, there would become an issue.
The truth angers those whom it does not convince
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,812 |
It helps to have excellent pointing skills....and be real close.... I could understand swap barrels with pre determined zero or a QD mount but to mount a fresh scope and hunt. Who in the fûck does stupid shït like that. Those who have the large box store counter guy mount/eyeball the scope and then go hunt? Can't see the pros doing it.....
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Seems if the cossahairs are centered on the scope they aren’t usually off by a whole lot.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
Seems if the cossahairs are centered on the scope they aren’t usually off by a whole lot. 🤣🤣😂🤣😉😉😎. 16 you are a mean fûcker. Lmfao. All my barrels are bent and I run 20moa rails.
Last edited by fredIII; 11/25/19.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,625 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,625 Likes: 1 |
According to the masses...
There it is...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
Oh I know, if you remember right, I've been skeptical for a loooong time... 🙄🤔 I remember that as well as a how to video that gets zero in one or two shots. Took awhile but the bullshit flag and a 15 yard penalty has been thrown. LOL.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
I thought you said second focal plane scopes are 100% worthless. LMFAO!
Feel free to quote where I said exactly that. I’ve killed more in a single week with SFP scopes than a lot of “hunters” will kill in their lifetime. For medium to long range use SFP introduces potential issues that do not need to be there. I’ve killed a bunch of animals with scopes on muzzleloaders that never had a single round put on paper. I’ve killed deer after mounting a scope without ever firing a shot before killing the animal. I’ve killed them with iron sights, peep sights, BSA’s, Leupolds, Vortex, Zeiss, Swaro, etc, etc, etc. So what. Because it can hit a 12” target at 50 paces it’s “good”. No. A scope is supposed to steer bullets correctly and consistently. A toaster is supposed to toast my bread. If it burns, I’m not happy just because the bread is edible.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423 |
Feel free to quote where I said exactly that. I’ve killed more in a single week with SFP scopes than a lot of “hunters” will kill in their lifetime. For medium to long range use SFP introduces potential issues that do not need to be there.
I’ve killed a bunch of animals with scopes on muzzleloaders that never had a single round put on paper. I’ve killed deer after mounting a scope without ever firing a shot before killing the animal. I’ve killed them with iron sights, peep sights, BSA’s, Leupolds, Vortex, Zeiss, Swaro, etc, etc, etc.
So what. Because it can hit a 12” target at 50 paces it’s “good”. No. A scope is supposed to steer bullets correctly and consistently. A toaster is supposed to toast my bread. If it burns, I’m not happy just because the bread is edible. [/quote]
You are very accomplished. ? How old are you.
Also very brave to hunt a gun that wasn’t zeroed! was wondering when you were going to become human for us mortals.
I prefer SFP for hunting and toast is [bleep], biscuits and gravy is where it’s at. [/quote]
Was a great time to make an exit.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2 |
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the confidence it takes to hunt with a rifle that’s not zeroed. WOW I’d go Leupold zeroed before Swfa Nightforce or bushy unzeroed and I hate leupolds. Teenagers do all kinds of things. It isn’t exactly difficult to bore sight a rifle to where it’ll hit a 6-8” target at sub 50 yards. And, it was probably a Leupold. Guys are impressed with videos of how to do stuff that any donkey should be able to do. Be well spoken...
I’m not sure what’s more amusing, that you can’t grasp that people appreciate actual information being shared? That being well spoken is somehow a “bad” thing? Or that it wasn’t very long ago that you were as ignorant of long range shooting as most, and now you “know.... Oh I know, if you remember right, I've been skeptical for a loooong time... 🙄🤔 Skeptical of what? That someone who isn’t a Pre-diabetic, can hunt, kill, and has a clue about equipment, and doesn’t talk about things he’s never used? Be veeery skeptical.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199 |
Sorry international man of mystery!!
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,199 |
Who knows, no face, pics of lots of other folks, with faces blacked out?? Who the fuuck knows if your not pre diabetic, can hunt, can shoot?? Nobody.....Grin
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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