According to the masses...

There are a slew of scopes on the market, but it seems there’s only a few held in high regard. Obviously SWFA has cornered a pretty damn good market share. I reckon Nightforce is unquestionable. Leupold had/has its day and so on.

The art of the $300 rifle has been perfected. RAR, Savage, 783, Mossberg, Marlin, etc. easy to find a rifle and ammo that are plenty accurate.

But when it comes to scopes, there’s SWFA and ???

Are tracking and reliability something new? You’d think that for every $300 rifle, there would be a 1/2 dozen $300 scopes suited to the task.

What gives?

Everything is made in China now . Well not really. I trust some of my Burris rifle scopes to track well enough for my needs. I've shot my AR's with the AR556 and AR762 4.5-14x42 rifle scopes enough at 500 yards and spun the turrets on those to know they track surprisingly well and return to zero perfectly. I even run an AR762 4.5-14x42 on my Tikka Superlite 6.5 creedmoor because I trust it enough to do it's job. I'll generally buy those rifle scopes when they are around $330.00. Prices have been going up on the damn things though, but its one scope I really like and trust to track well... The burris FFII 3-9x40 that I love and have on most of my hunting rifles are not scopes I dial, but they do have the ballistic plex reticle that I have used out to 400 yards. The FFII's have always been very reliable at holding zero and I prefer the reticle over just about any other ballistic or LR reticle I've seen or used. The Zeiss Terra is also a good rifle scope in the $300.00 price range and it also has a good RZ6 ballistic reticle, very similar to the Burris FFII ballistic plex. Again, these are not exceptionally great for dialing, but work great as a "set and forget" because they hold zero and don't wander like some brands.... If I'm going to be trusting a scope to dial spot on the money, I'm going to be using my fixed power SWFA SS scopes and my Nightforce rifle scopes. The SHV line has really impressed me recently. It was made for us hunters, but they dial extremely well. I actually like the MOAR reticle better than my NSX 5.5-22x56 and the glass is just as clear as it's more expensive brother... I'm gettting ready to go and try my new 5-20x56 SHV out on one of my new rifles here in a bit. I'd say, if you want good tracking and excellent glass, you need to step up to the plate and buy Nighforce. If you want sub par (meant to say piss poor) glass with excellent tracking, go with the SWFA SS fixed power for $300.00...

It’s all propaganda. : )

Don’t go saying swfa is the holy grail. The one I have isn’t. I am going to video the image showing it when the tool for it arrives. As well as test some others. The point is they may or may not be squared away. Mine has over 3% tracking error and 2% reticle shift. Want squared away get nightforce. Scope companies make crap because they know most people don’t shoot their guns very often. Then they are able to batch qc the scopes that do fail or actually get used.

In my experience the friction adjustment Leopold's were difficult to sight in because the adjustment were random.

When I moved from Leopold's to better scooes I found my rifles were more accurate and sight in became a breeze.

No kidding! For set and forget the old Leupys were fine. Dialing, not so much.

My absolute favorite of all time is Leupold M8 6x42’s. It’s just baffling that there’s only one “cheap” dialable scope that actually works.

Why is it baffling?


Everyone you meet talks glass, features, and warranty. Hunters have never asked for a scope that mechanically works. The manufacturers has given the market what it asked for.

I think it's fairly simple. The majority of the folks buying scopes don't use them enough to know the difference. Most of the average hunters I know are content to get minute of deer at 100 yards and they bring home their venison, so what's the problem? Lots of POS scopes will do that. If they experience a scope failure how do they even know it's the scope or another factor in their rig? They don't often make the effort to diagnose the problem and most the guys I know lack the skills and experience to diagnose it anyway. The reality is most hunters are not very discriminating or discerning in scope selection. They see the great glass and automatically assume the rest of the scope is awesome too.

Most of the guys I know equate hunting experience with scope expertise and they simply don't know what they don't know. That isn't to say they are stupid, just that they have yet to experience the need to dig into the subject more. I was one of these guys who drank the Leupold coolaid for years, but that came to a halt when I acquired a pair of match 54 Anschutz rifles that starkly revealed scope deficiencies. Even then it took me a while to realize the scopes were inconsistent.

I agree with the comments, above, on the majority of hunters...

Most hunters are just like me, and don't need a scope with exacting-elevation-settings.
Good glass and durability and holding zero can be had for 300-400 dollars.

It's still true, even today, that most deer are killed well-within 200 yards.

No magic here.... I sight my .06 in at 200 yards and go hunting.

Boring, ain't it.

:-)

I had Redfield scopes for 40 years, probably 35 of them. One or two went bad. All in all I’d give them an A. Sold all but two here in the classifieds when I decided to go Leupold. I now have about 40 Leupolds. I have CDS models, no problems yet.

How long does a scope need to last for its owner to consider it a good scope? It will eventually fail some day. If it lasts 40 years, then goes bad, would you curse it and say it was a bad scope? Cshit wears out eventually, don’t it??

That probably works in your locale....

Consider a hunter in the west, he applies for a special tag, it may take ten years to draw that tag. He uses vacation time , travels a couple hundred miles to hunt. The terrain is open, long shots are likely.
Thousands of dollars and years of time are invested. The animal population is low (that's why it is a draw unit)
Would you trust a scope that worked ok and was suspect in terms of reliability? hell no!

Granted they are the minority in numbers compared to the average eastern deer hunter.....

Some of you need to get out more....

Hanco with all due respect, you are full of chit. That many Leupolds cannot possibly get hunted hard and shot for thousands of rounds by one owner.
Besides shooting hogs in a pen is no test of anything.... your opinion is baseless

There are far less Swfa scopes on rifles than you think.So the number of them going down is far less.Nikon and Tasco come on numerous gun packages.With the amount of them out there it stands to reason more will go down.Sort of seemed like an add for Swfa.They are not a major player in the scope market.Here to they are good at their price point but not great.

But, you go lurk on some other big shooting / hunting forums, and there are guys on there, many of whom appear to be very respected in those forums, who have high praise for a lot of the Chinese scope brands. Primary Arms, Vortex, Athlon, etc.

For example, one well respected guy on another forum reports that a couple of higher end Athlons track "perfectly," and that there is actually a little slop in the tracking of the Meopta Optika6. His words, not mine. I think it would be a good bet that some of the scope reviewers on here would disagree completely with those findings, at least on the Athlons.

So what is going on, are there really only SWFA and Nightforce? I'm not trying to stir pots, just genuinely trying to educate myself on dialing scopes. It is hard to figure out what to believe, when so many sources report wildly different opinions.

So one deer tag in 10 years versus a guy that shoots 10 deer a year in his locale.

Following that logic, the guy that gets laid once every 10 years in Wyoming is a playboy, the guy that screws 100 girls is 10 years is a novice.

When it comes to dialing scopes even the respected brands have problems at times. Plan on using the warranty and do tracking/tall target test on every scope you plan to dial.
The crazy part is at times the cheaper brands dial great... go figure

Laffin ...
Statistics is hard.

Flawed logic.... the guy probably shoots thousands of practice rounds.... long range requires that. Also he doesn't sit home every time he doesn't draw a special tag. More than likely applies in several states and easy to draw units in his home state.
I can guarandamntee you my rifles for woods hunting aren't held to the same accuracy standards as my long range rigs.... you don't know what you don't know... jeesh

Enlightening as usual....

I’m the luckiest sumbitch on the www I guess!! 😂😂

En route to Idaho right now with a couple leupold variables, I’m very concerned.. haha

Oh shut up and go kill a big buck..... lucky bastard

Find I’m turning around and going home!!!


Haha

🤣🤣

Got the old truck with a new set of diggers on er weather looks promising, pics to follow, if I don’t have a scope failure!!!

Go back to your couch Jud before you hurt yourself......

I’ve shot hundreds of rounds at paper. For every one shot at game. Never had but one scope fail me on a hunting trip.
But I’ve had several fail at the range. The one failure was the one I least expected. A steel tube Kahles 3-12x56.
Hasbeen

It is.
I don't understand the fascination with long range deer hunting.
If you have called strutting turkeysyou will understand the excitement of bringing your game in close. With deer, you can rattle them in or hunt the scrapes. Other ways to get close. It is a real thrill. When I was younger we walked up our deer in the chained cedar and shot them in motion.
Todays scopes are too big for that or have reticles which are rather complicated for close in shooting. I guess you can use a red dot but I don't really care for them.
I don't need big objective lenses as our deer are as lazy as me and don't start moving until about 8:00am. Now the big ones do come out right at dusk but it is more to go find their beds and kick them out.
I don't need fast focus or all matter of dots and lines in the view.
I only need a 2x or 3x or the traight 4x such as this Burris Short Mag. A 1.5-4 or 5x variable is fine. The Weaver V-3 is hard to beat.
There is a market for after market dots and cross hairs. Maybe some will fill the void.
Winchester Big Bore .307 Burris Short Mag


Winchester Big Bore .444 Marlin Weaver 2x with 5 minute Lee Scope Dot


Ruger .358 Winchester American rifle Weaver V-3

Good luck rattling in a mule deer..... and finding a scrape.... jeesh

Haha I’m not worried about me, I’m worried about my scopes!!! 😂😂

I would worry also.... but hey the warranty is great.....
Good luck brother Jud

P.S. I still use Leupolds at times...

Take enough shells?...grin....

At least the Coues are safe. Good luck Jud

Georgia buck died thru a NF yesterday. Could have done it with a Leupold. 😎

Got 50 204 and 10 6AI, should be able to get er done!!! Haha

Nice

We are asking for a lot in a 300.00 scope. A scope selling, on a good deal, for 300.00 will carry at least a 20% margin as it goes through the wholesale retail distribution. A 20% margin means the scope manufacturer received 240.00. A rule of thumb for manufacturers requires the manufacturing cost including a manufacturing profit margin to be 50% of what they sell an item for. The other half of the 240.00 they would receive goes to the cost of marketing and includes expenses like warranty costs, advertising and promotions and marketing profit.

So in simpler terms, that good deal on 300.00 scope means that you are purchasing a scope that has to have a raw manufacturing cost of 100.00 or less.

Congrats Beav... Beautiful deer, I like dark horns and cape... very cool.

Leupold's do work well East of the Mississippi...... did you see Gus or Hatari?

I didn’t see Gus. He was busy meditating on the meaning of sea life and man living in harmony....My host knows hat, and said he’s always working pulling teeth and posting political satire.

Fun fact...Georgia has 1.4 million deer. Who knew? Rednecks have all the luck! Grins 😎

Beav, you are lucky the snakes, gators and chiggers didn't get ya...........

Brother,

I walked with me eyes down every step of the way to avoid snakes...Ticks and Chigs - No worries. I duct taped my ankles and wrists. Kidding. 😂 But, I did steal my dogs flea collar and wore it...

I Love our Western hunting. Pretty simple hunting style. Good area, good bins, good scope, good rifle, good to go....No worries about stepping on something lethal.

Headed home tomorrow....😎

So in short, the guy that gets laid once every 10 years masturbates a LOT.

Got it.

Ok this is getting a little bit personal now.

I just wait for sales and deals on my scopes.
Two days ago I picked up a Meopta Meopro 3-9x40 through Cabelas for $299 plus tax. (regular $548)
They are closing out their "instinct" line, which is a dead knock-off of the old Conquest MC 3-9x40, which I also bought for $300 when Cabelas had that on sale 10 years ago.
(Thanks to BigDave for giving me the heads-up on the Instincts from Cabelas)

The key here, is to buy a 500-dollar scope for 300 dollars.... those buys on decent scopes come up every year at various times for various reasons.

The world will never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop!

I noticed there’s 69 brands of scopes on SWFA’s website, they can’t all “suck”....

Name the scope manufacturers or models that were specifically built for mechanical function above all else.

Just something lethal eating you.

You tell me!!

Re - the Cabela’s ...
The interesting thing is, they aren’t “old” scopes. They are the newer “Czech assembled” model.

How about reasonable durability in a set and forget scope?

Because people keep buying 'em.

Travis, good to see you're back.

Pretty sure he already has....

The list is short and distinguished.... kinda like my Johnson...

Distinguished??? What, does it have a beard??

Where the men are men, the sheep are nervous.

You already know them.

Nightforce
SWFA
Bushnell EliteTactical DMR/HDMR/ERS/XRS/LRHS/LRTS
Maybe ZCO

Ask any companies engineers right off the bat what their first goal was when designing a scope. Other than those above it is NEVER bulletproof function. The Bushnells aren’t as solid as they were, because Bushnell got rid of the people who were responsible for bringing them to fruition.



I’m not sure why this is so hard for so many people to grasp. Scopes are designed to be marketable. The market screams for glass, features, and warranty. So that is what the scopes are designed around.


You can’t have it all.

Want a $300 scope that is built to hold zero and function as item #1? Than you will give up features, have just usable glass, and probably fixed power.

Want a scope that is built to work, is a variable, has good glass? Than you are at $600+ with minimal features, and a low zoom ratio.

Want a scope that is built to work, has good glass, and good features? Than you are at $1,200+ and low zoom ratio.

Want a scope that is built to work, has good glass, good features, and good zoom ratio? You’ll be spending $2,000.


Want a $300 feature rich scope with good glass? It’s going to be a POS as an aiming device.

Want a $600 feature rich scope with great glass? It’s going to be a POS as an aiming device.

Want a $1,000 scope with great glass, high zoom ratios, and lots of features? Guess what....

But because people don’t shoot, are happy to make excuses for poor performance, and the most “use” most scopes get is being pulled out of the safe to show a buddy.... function isn’t taken seriously by most.

Scopes aren't binoculars, glass is way down the list of importance, that's for sure. But as said, you can't tell that to most people.

In low light and or tough conditins great glass discs definate plus. You cang hit what you cant see.

Mechanical integrity is paramount.

20 year old eyes will trump all, assuming your siblings aren't your parents. Considering what I've accomplished with open sights, I don't need $2000 glass, I just need dependable internals.

My blue light special rifle, and a lowly vx-1 doing gods work last Sunday, funny thing, it’s a bigger blacktail than 99% of the scope biitches will ever kill.... 😂 haha

Chop chop lady’s, no blinds, tree stands, or food plots there.... grin

I got a fair array of glass, mostly old junk. El Paso Weavers, Leupold, Rice, Unertl, and a Lyman or two. They all work just dandy. I prefer peepers though and have been killin' stuff for many years with them. Heck, I shot a 1.5" group with a tang sight on a .45-70 awhile back @100 with 5 shots loaded with -gasp- lead and black powder.

Quigley's Cousin

My Coonass buddies take good care of me, taking me fishing on Toledo Bend, and saltwater fishing in the Gulf of LA. I take good care of them by taking them whitetail deer hunting in the TX Panhandle. We had weather ranging from 70* to 18*, sunny, ice, sleet. I like hunting off of a bluff overlooking a pretty dense creekbottom. It is very rocky. One morning when we were making our way to this vantage point, my buddy slipped on a slick rock, taking a spill and dropping his rifle which caromed off a couple more rocks. It is a Tikka 695 7mag, Optilocks, and a 3.5-10x VX3.





Naturally we wanted to check zero, and lo and behold the POS Leupold hadn't budged. Yes, I would expect most any scope to need adjusting after that, but his one did not. Later he smacked this bruiser......weighed almost 250lbs before field dressing. My buddy weighs 235, for reference.

Got it, Iceman....

I know I come from the wrong side of the tracks but I currently don't own ( and haven't owned for years..) a scope that costs more than $200

I haven't had to return any to the factory for anything that wasn't my fault...


And I just keep killing all creatures Great and Small...


What am I doing wrong?

Your not doing anything wrong, you are hunting, key word being “hunt”.... grin

Don't you shoot a .270?

Ingwe, the critters you hunt are mesmerized and confused by the wild man in the leopard print thong stalking them and they forget to run away, therefore makin for an easy kill......

Same thing as me I guess. I just killed another buck last weekend while peering through a vx-1 mounted on a .30-06.

My pard in tucky ain’t got much $, farm hand, wife 3 kids,I bought him a 224 valkerie upper for his AR for coyotes. Here’s a damn good whitetail he ghosted with it, with me couple weeks ago, only scope he could afford was a nikko stehrling, $75 special..... buck is a 5 point, plus forked eyeguards just a pig.... also ghosted a truckload of coyotes with the setup... HINT

Nightforce/swfa or bust!!! 🤣🤣

Only had 1/2 hour daylight, saw 3 Palouse sized 3 points, gonna hit er in the morning..

So someone can’t be a hunter and have a clue about shooting as well? Or is it only people who are ignorant about equipment can be hunters? And what? If someone wants to improve their performance in any aspect, they’re not “hunters”?

If the measure of a scopes quality is a dead animal at close range.... Hundreds of thousands get killed every year with a pointed stick... so why bother with a rifle?

I like my Leupolds, SWFA's and a new Zeiss. Only had warranty returns with Vortex in the past and 2 SWFA's (gasp!) My friend had Vortex problems and they sent him a warranty replacement that also had issues. Neither scope could hold a zero.

I thought you said second focal plane scopes are 100% worthless. LMFAO!

If you resemble that remark.... haha

It’s so funny, folks get like fighting mad, about optics, scopes in particular.... very funny...

That being said, I killed with bow, musket and rifle this year.... and I’ll ghost many splendid animals next year.. again

That’s WAY too much logic for this place bud....

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Says the bitch who's first post on this thread was to call others bitches that didn't agree.

Easy Travis!!!

When people finally learn they can't shoot as well as they thought they want to blame something

Oooopsie, I called myself a sumbitch!!! 😂😂

Feel free to quote where I said exactly that. I’ve killed more in a single week with SFP scopes than a lot of “hunters” will kill in their lifetime. For medium to long range use SFP introduces potential issues that do not need to be there.



I’ve killed a bunch of animals with scopes on muzzleloaders that never had a single round put on paper. I’ve killed deer after mounting a scope without ever firing a shot before killing the animal. I’ve killed them with iron sights, peep sights, BSA’s, Leupolds, Vortex, Zeiss, Swaro, etc, etc, etc.

So what. Because it can hit a 12” target at 50 paces it’s “good”. No. A scope is supposed to steer bullets correctly and consistently. A toaster is supposed to toast my bread. If it burns, I’m not happy just because the bread is edible.

Oh, what a little bitch ....laughing

Wish I had a $20 for every time a bitch said those words.

My buddy runs a slaughter house, he kills a lot too, is “killing” all the same??? His favorite is 243 with 55’s.....

Is a guy that kills 30 elk on a high fence, as good as a guy that’s killed 30 wild elk? Do does count? Do tree stand killed deer count? How bout does? Culling does constitutes a good “hunter” and good equipment??

I like toast.

hanco

Steelhead. You haven't been missed.

I know a guy in Britain that earned his living as a professional game manager for 20 years. He was under contract to keep the muntjac, roe deer, red deer and sitka within carrying capacity on over 20 estates. If he failed to meet his quotas he would lose his contracts and not get paid. He was required under those contracts to kill over 600 of the various deer per year and did so every year. I guess he didn't know what he was doing or shoot enough or kill enough because he used a Tikka 695 chambered in .270 topped with a Swarovski scope to meet his quota's.

Ooooopsie, he shoulda tried to better his skeelz!!! Haha

Oh and he’s a liar!!! Swarovski sucks!!!

Formi,

Was it George and Pat, that you are referring to? Or were there others, such as mil/leo?

Thanks,

Jason

You are very accomplished. ? How old are you.

Also very brave to hunt a gun that wasn’t zeroed! was wondering when you were going to become human for us mortals.

I prefer SFP for hunting and toast is [bleep], biscuits and gravy is where it’s at.

They helped, or at least George did. I’m not sure how much Pat was involved beyond the LRHS. However the drivers were the guys that ran the tactical/competition division.

Wow!!! A truck is supposed to start every day, sometimes the don’t.... Barnes bullets are supposed to mushroom perfectly, lotsa times they lose pedals... expandable broadheads are supposed to open on contact.... custom rifle barrels are supposed to shoot moa.... people aren’t supposed to lie.... god is for real... and on and on....

Oh Jon wick is for real too!! Haha

Thanks for the info, Formi. Too bad those guys are gone. Seems like they made a lot of progress with the short/fast tactical scopes, then the LRHS/LRTS scopes.

Jason

Jud,

I think the point is that all of us can appreciate a truck that starts more reliably. No such thing as a truck that starts too consistently or a bullet that performs too predictably! It doesn't hurt to push manufacturers to bring us better and better products.

A man's hunting skills and activities should not be confused with his desire for the most dependable/functional equipment he can possibly get.

You'll see the light one day, Fred.

Oh, and I'm with you on the biscuits and gravy. God's breakfast.

So, I don’t use the most reliable equipment I can get?

All due respect btw Jordan

I take my deer hunting pretty fuuckin seriously. If my equiment was costing me deer I wouldn't keep using it but somehow I've managed to fill multiple tags every year since the mid 70's with the cheap crap I can afford.

I have FFP just don’t like it over SFP for killing game. If I was on a hill shoot bad guys and needed to protect guys I cared about a FFP would be great and I can Guarantee that I would know every hold bye heart between 100 and1500 on that reticle. But no matter what I hunt I promise I will make sure my guns zeroed as I still haven’t mastered walking on water.

Exactly, and I buy more tags and hunt more than the VAST majority of folks here, for a fact... as I said, caint cuss something that’s never done me dirty...

I knew a guy hunted a Sauer 202 rifle in 270 with a $30 Bushnell scope on it for 35 years. Thing shot like a house a fire, like 1/2" with my handloads, and always worked. Go figure.

Everybody's got to determine that for themselves

That was just a quick jab, Fred. I know you've used both for killing game and obviously have developed preferences, just as I have long ago, though my preference ended up on the other side of the line with FFP...

Your scopes have worked well for you, and I don't think there's a single sensible guy here that would tell you that you need to swap out all your scopes. But my experience has led me to make scope choices that are difference from yours. Different strokes...

It's a great thing we have so many choices in scopes. I have strong preferences. My concern now is who is going to take care of my three or so Nikon's now that these scopes are being discontinued.

First up, Leupold's had friction adjustments hunting scopes for years. For those of us who used them it was no problem. The only problem on older scopes was different graduations on the dials depending on age.

The scopes that Leupold had replaced under warranty were ancient as scopes go. I had owned two of those replaced scopes for over thirty years. I still get a bunch of crap over these older scopes being usable. Usually, it's all about hunting at twilight. So what, I don't hunt at twilight. Silly me, could it be that I'm hearing advertising repeated as experience. Surely, not!

Several years ago I had gotten two 3x9 Leupold's. Bubba had really done a job putting on scope rings and using red locktite to make sure nothing went wrong. The screw heads had to be bored out to remove the rings. One scope appeared to have a problem. Leupold rebuilt the windage and elevation adjustments. I'd write that off as a Bubba attack aftermath. Several times scopes have checked out and returned. Sure enough this was an owner problem. It was a good thing to remove the scope as a variable setting up a pre-owned rifle.

My buy lately on a $300.00 scope was the Leupold VX-3i 3.5x10. If there was money I would have bought a dozen of those scopes. The Leupold scope was a replacement for a older Burris 3x9x50. I have a fit with the Burris scope. Finally, I've had enough and bought the Leupold. No, nothing was wrong with the Burris. I did not like the scope. There is a world of difference between "don't like" and "no good." I'd like to know how many times scopes returned for repairs etc. are for owner problems. That has been me.

Had a friend work as a manager in a large sporting goods chain store. He said of all the scopes his store warrantied there was not a single one that had anything wrong with it.
I think many times when a scope is suspect because it does not hold zero. The real culprit is the stress existing somewhere in the rings and bases. Over time this stress is relieved by warm cold cycles and by occasional jarring of the scope and mount system. Leupold bases with turn in front ring and windage adjustable rear bases can cause a lot of issues if not totally relieved of stress. Which is difficult to obtain and determine . Have always
thought there were a very bad idea although have at times used them successfully.

👍. We’re good. And I know ya zero first.

I have a couple of real old Bushnell sportview scopes. They were around the $50 Mark iirc when I bought them. They have both collected venison quite a few times over the years. They are both still going strong. My wife bought me a Bushnell elite 3500 for Christmas a couple of years ago.
It cost more than all my other scopes I own combined.
It has gone down on me ( exchanged free of charge both times by Bushnell) twice due to internal fogging when it rained.
As far as trackability I'm one of the people who have no idea because I mount the scope and sight in. Then forget about it till I check my zero before season.
Works for me but everyones needs are different I suppose.
Peace
Eric

Stating this as a question.

A SFP makes sense to me in the 3-9’ish range but doesn’t make sense in say the 5-20’ish range. Seems conditions wouldn’t allow the best use of 20X a lot of times hunting.

Thoughts?

Everyone has different needs and I was reminded Friday, different abilities to use their purchase..

A buddy wanted to sight in out in the back pasture. He'd had the scopes adjusted at the local gun store first.
He was a foot low and 8" right at 100 yards on all three rifles so wanted to take them back to the store for adjustment...
I encouraged him to sit still and work it out so he promptly adjusted all three the wrong way.

I'd moved a Leupold VXII 3-9 to the 243 and shot more than I wanted as it doesn't track. I chased it around a bit to get it where I wanted.
It was a gift and works fine once it's worked out so I'll keep it.

I have had problems of one kind or another with every scope except Leupold. Bought my first Leupold a Vari-XII 3-9x in 1975 and have owned nothing else since, never any problems with Leupold. I prefer the older Vari-XII's over Leupold's current offerings.

And a single period is supposed to conclude a sentence.

Not sure what you're saying here, are you talking about scopes that people brought in for repar or warranty issues?

It's hard to believe that not a single scope of any brand ever malfunctioned, or that the manager of the store would be in a position to make that kind of determination. Did he take the scopes apart and do the warranty work himself?

_______________________________________________________

On the whole concept of "I've killed a sh**-loaf of game with XXX-brand scope so I know they're all I need, it's hard to argue with that logic.

When I lived back east I almost never got a shot over 100 yards hunting in the big hardwood stands. Scope adjustments and their reliability were not something that mattered to me.

That didn't mean they're ot important to other people who hunt differently than I did.

I agree, although I have a Bushnell 4500, 6-24 that the mildot is true at 12X , I like that. Also a Vortex 6-20 that mils at 14X and those are useful.

Not so if you are one who believes everything you are told, and there are more than a few.

My BS meter is pegged out past overload.

Did the same on a Doe at 358 with a Leupold 6x42 on a Nula 7mm-08. One apple pies....

shouldn't need to do any turret twisting to kill a deer at 330 yards with a .270 WSM.

Jud, Bama says Leupold scopes suck. Bama is right. Dead critters don't prove [bleep].

Correct. I shot another at 330 with a 4x Leupold with a 3 minute dot. Placed the bottom of the dot on the back line. Which took care of 4+inches of the approximately 9 inches of drop.

However, 330 or a little more isn’t the game the LR people play. Thus I can see were they may see the need to upgrade their equipment to what gives them an increased confidence level.

After watching the Leupold Live Stream, I’m 100% they believe the exact thing and that kinda shiddy attitude will absolutely trickle down to retailers.

Scope choice is just that, a choice...Some will learn about an optic that’s different than what they are accustomed to using, but see a benefit that a new scope can provide them in their hunting situation and decide to try one.

I wish I could care enough about what someone else wants to use as a scope, but, I just don’t...I’m sitting here in Georgia coming off a whitetail deer hunt out of an elevated blind that looked over a food plot surrounded by dense timber. My farthest shot...140 yards.

Did I need my Nightforce? Heck No! Any scope that was a set and forget and had good light gathering capabilities would have been just fine...Now, you change the hunting environment to steep, deep, heavy timber with wide open clear cuts that reach out 800 yards and beyond, where just getting to a position to start hunting can cause you to slip, stumble and fall with your scoped rifle, a guy may see the value in running a known to be robust optic that can take an unexpected hard knock.

It’s a choice...I hate absolutes as they don’t always hold water in every situation...You take Forms situation, look at his gear, his rigs, his optics - every single piece of gear looks like it’s been left in a Section 8 Housing Complex for addled minded drugheads to use and abuse for generations. His case is easy to understand why he needs equipment capable of sucking up the abuse from 1000’s upon 1000’s of rounds and users.

Bottom line, one size doesn’t fit everyone. If you’ve had the chance to hunt multiple states from East to West like some of us have. You’ll understand why some hunting environments, situations, and hunt style don’t necessarily require bomb proof gear. It’s that simple.

PS

For CumCowboy, I ran a FFP NightForce in dense, thick woody shît and I had zero problems in lowlight tracking a buck I spotted in the woods at 100 yards on low power until he stepped out into the open and into my reticle. I didn’t need to increase my power ring to see my reticle...Hey, but I shoot a lot and don’t fuss over small stuff when it comes to smacking fur.

😎

Let the whine continue. I just had a epic leupold failure, that’s gonna cost me a bone out pack from hell, pics in a few hours.... 🖕🏿🤘😆

I love you Bama, I’m not gonna argue with you!! 🤣🤣

To the point I made earlier, Leupold may not be the most reliable/robust scope in the world, but apparently it’s reliable enough to cause you some miserable pack-out jobs. Sorry to hear about your success. Prayers sent.

Got to love 2019. People posting on the campfire while hunting

.....and scopes still don’t work. According to some.


A sub 12oz set and forget 6x with MQ reticle would be a dandy, but I’m the only one that wants one.

I’d buy one today...

I hate to even ask this but I need to know. I have people ask me real often what to buy for an inexpensive scope. They usually have an acceptable rifle that came with a piece of crap scope as a package deal. I have been advising them to try a Simmons Whitetail since they almost always are looking for one under $100. First thing I tell them is they would be better off with a $100 rifle and a $600 scope but that doesn't interest these folks. Is the Simmons OK? I checked a lot of rednecks using them when I was patrolling and they liked Simmons and killed a lot of deer using them.

Prayers worked!!! 😂😂

They really don’t, I steal pics, I lie , I spend copious amounts of time on the couch pretending... 🤣🤣

I’m actually excited I get cell service in bf Idaho, handy when you hunt solo all the time... maybe Alaska will get on board eventually?

Nice buck Jud. You're knockin' em down regularly with those Leupy's. Nice work!

👍

If a less-costly scope fails, it is just desserts for the cheap-ass that tried to get by with it. If a more costly scope fails, it is tragic, but just one of those things as even the best can fail sometimes. At least, that's how I've come to understand the situation from reading here at the 'fire over the years.

Congrats Jud.

Ok, let me ask this, since last year on opening weekend of deer season I shot a really nice 8 point buck using a $120 Weaver K4 Classic and this year saw nothing but does(which I did not fire at) with the same rifle and a $450 Meopta Artemis, I need to blame the optic?

Will it still suck if I shoot something when I get back from 3 days out of town for work?

I still have yet to use a scope for hunting this year.

Hunting with good "iron" sights does provide a certain level of confidence that something mysterious hasn't happened inside 'em....

How many Mils did you have to use on the windshield and what was your windcall and atmospheric conditions for that buck? Did you adjust your dope for altitude?



Am I the only one that remembers back in the day when you “worked” your way through Tasco and all that stuff....and finally scratched enough money together to have a Leupold? Then felt like you’d entered the big leagues?

Funny enough, I still have the first Leupold I ever bought.

Business defamation?

That's a major consideration for me. Maybe with today's scopes it shouldn't be but it still is.

EXACTLY

Run whatcha brung and don’t worry about other folks.. perty simple

I still have a 3-9x32 made in Japan Tasco from the late 70's that works/adjusts/holds zero perfectly.

In my opinion any variable power scope is unreliable. Unless you are willing to pay more than $1000

I shoot an awful lot of woodchucks at 250-350 yards every summer with variables that cost way less than 1000.00.....You snobby bastards are a hoot though.

Just stating my observations. I think our cold weather is the "death" of a variable.

Uh-oh..I've been here too long...I'm starting to agree with Blackheart

I spent a lot of years killing animals with a Weaver K6, Bushnell Elite 3200 and a Leupold FXll. Most hunting shots were at reasonable distances of 200yd or less, except for a few Stone sheep that were in the 400yd range. These were set and forgets and other than rezeroing once in a while, the failures were the bushnell fogged up on a cold Nov mule deer hunt, and the Leupold FXll reticle came loose and rotated.
In the last 4-5 years I’ve been doing a lot more long range practicing at the range and switching to Leupold LR reticle and CDS was not cutting it. It hasn’t really changed my hunting needs, the longest shot I’ve had since switching scopes is a 405yd shot on a big caribou, but the scopes I’m using now handle what I want to do at the range and easily handle my hunting needs as well.
I only keep 3-4 rifles and I don’t feel the same need to fill tags that I used to. So I’m a lot more selective of what animals I shoot these days. Because of that, most of my actual shooting is at the range so that’s the main priority for my scopes. Right now I use two NXS compacts and one SWFA. I have a rifle in the works right now and it will probably have a Bushnell LRHS on it.

I'm willing to bet that there are more so-called sucky scopes taking more game than the more expensive "not sucky scopes" by a large margin.
Many hunters are happy with their $150.00 - $300.00 scopes that fill their tags every year. I am one of them. If I can take my favorite rifle out every year and kill game with one shot at 150-400 yds with an old 6x Redfield Widefield, I probably won't change that scope. I have done just that with the last 10 Antelope and Deer I have shot.
That scope is mounted on a FN mauser 98 action with a 257 Ack Imp. that I built. Of course it has a so-called sucky Wilson barrel on it.
I don't blame the guys for liking those new scopes that are pushing a $1000.00 , but I know very few that can afford one.
When I had my gun shop, I sold and mounted 100's of scopes and there was no way any of my customers would pay more for their scope than they did their rifle.
I also have a good friend that has a $4500.00 rifle and a $2000.00 + scope and he has had to buy a $1000.00 range finder to round out his equipment. I really enjoy shooting a 1000 yds, with him, and I am jealous, but am glad he can afford his equipment.
I just thought I had to say something in defense of the average shooter and hunter. The main thing is we all have the freedom to own our on firearms and use them as we wish.


thanks for listening,
Ken

I would trust an appropriate model Leupold for any hunting in North America except a dangerous game hunt. Then I’m going Night Force.

I remember taking a well worn K6 off a .25-06... because I finally scraped together the coin and bought a 4.5-14x40 Leupold Vari-X III.... then wondering why I had to constantly check and adjust my zero. I don’t ever remember having to touch that Weaver, and I beat the schitt outta that gun.... but somehow I even convinced myself that that the Leupold was “better”.

I think if I had to pick a sub-$150 scope to hunt with for the rest of my life.... it’d probably be a Weaver K6.

A mans scope don't mean [bleep] to me but I cherish friendships, as I'm so sadly reminded of today.

I still have one on a 1971 model Marlin 336 30-30. It's a pig whacking sonofagun.

Lately have been buying a few steel-tubed, El Paso Weavers, mostly to put on "classic" rifles, but partly to see if they were actually as reliable as I remembered---which means they sighted-in pretty easily with the correct number of clicks, and then stayed that way. So far, so good. That does not mean they're as good as today's better scopes, but some of today's scope manufacturers could learn something from 'em.

Incidentally, Bushnell scopes orignated when Dave Bushnell took some circa-1950 Weavers to Japan and said, "Can you copy these?" The folks in Japan said sure, and did. On my first safari in 1992, the father of my PH was born and raised in what was then called Rhodesia, and had done a BUNCH of buffalo culling with his .458 Winchester, because back then it was considered "normal" to clear out wildlife to make room for domestic animals, especially cattle. The first scope he put on his .458 was a 2.5x Bushnell, during the 1950's. He still had it on his rifle, and said it had never lost zero.

So, why can't a company reverse-engineer a couple old Weavers, a Nightforce SHV, and an SWFA, figure out what makes them reliable, then get some cheap labor somewhere to reproduce it? Seems like even Leupold could do that if they actually wanted to.

#MAGA

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the confidence it takes to hunt with a rifle that’s not zeroed.
WOW I’d go Leupold zeroed before Swfa Nightforce or bushy unzeroed and I hate leupolds.

It helps to have excellent pointing skills....and be real close....

Ya unbelievable...

I could understand swap barrels with pre determined zero or a QD mount but to mount a fresh scope and hunt. Who in the fûck does stupid shït like that.

Guys are impressed with videos of how to do stuff that any donkey should be able to do.
Be well spoken and aggressive have a e8 rank when departing the service and tricking guys into complete bullshit ain’t hard. Hint.
I zero my rifle and my CHICK kills lotta game because I zero hers as well. Rehint. 😉😉

Oh I know, if you remember right, I've been skeptical for a loooong time... 🙄🤔

I have had more iron sights go bad while hunting than scopes. It usually was due to me being a dummy and leaning a gun against a tree and having it fall over and bend something. Happened twice before I got smart enough to stop leaning guns on things

I just had another Leupold 3-9 go bad on me (wondering POI and failed to adjust; there is a thread on it). Honestly, the issue would probably not cost me a deer at 100 yds, but it doesn't build confidence and it
is frustrating as heck trying to develop loads and/or sight in. On a longer range shot, there would become an issue.

Those who have the large box store counter guy mount/eyeball the scope and then go hunt? Can't see the pros doing it.....

Seems if the cossahairs are centered on the scope they aren’t usually off by a whole lot.

🤣🤣😂🤣😉😉😎. 16 you are a mean fûcker. Lmfao.

All my barrels are bent and I run 20moa rails.

There it is...

I remember that as well as a how to video that gets zero in one or two shots. Took awhile but the bullshit flag and a 15 yard penalty has been thrown. LOL.

Feel free to quote where I said exactly that. I’ve killed more in a single week with SFP scopes than a lot of “hunters” will kill in their lifetime. For medium to long range use SFP introduces potential issues that do not need to be there.



I’ve killed a bunch of animals with scopes on muzzleloaders that never had a single round put on paper. I’ve killed deer after mounting a scope without ever firing a shot before killing the animal. I’ve killed them with iron sights, peep sights, BSA’s, Leupolds, Vortex, Zeiss, Swaro, etc, etc, etc.

So what. Because it can hit a 12” target at 50 paces it’s “good”. No. A scope is supposed to steer bullets correctly and consistently. A toaster is supposed to toast my bread. If it burns, I’m not happy just because the bread is edible. [/quote]


You are very accomplished. ? How old are you.

Also very brave to hunt a gun that wasn’t zeroed! was wondering when you were going to become human for us mortals.

I prefer SFP for hunting and toast is [bleep], biscuits and gravy is where it’s at. [/quote]

Was a great time to make an exit.

Teenagers do all kinds of things. It isn’t exactly difficult to bore sight a rifle to where it’ll hit a 6-8” target at sub 50 yards. And, it was probably a Leupold.





I’m not sure what’s more amusing, that you can’t grasp that people appreciate actual information being shared? That being well spoken is somehow a “bad” thing? Or that it wasn’t very long ago that you were as ignorant of long range shooting as most, and now you “know....





Skeptical of what? That someone who isn’t a Pre-diabetic, can hunt, kill, and has a clue about equipment, and doesn’t talk about things he’s never used?


Be veeery skeptical.

Sorry international man of mystery!!

Who knows, no face, pics of lots of other folks, with faces blacked out?? Who the fuuck knows if your not pre diabetic, can hunt, can shoot?? Nobody.....Grin

He’s wanted by world terror groups the face can’t be shown.

Jesus Christ guess I better call pops and thank him, he raised me to be smart enough to sight in a rifle before fielding it.

PS if a guy isn’t smart enough to tighten a screw or zero a rifle it would make sense that he would look up to you.

😂😂

He must not have a PhD either, lotsa skinny fuucks with diabetes.... The box blind high fence crew burns copious amounts of calories.....Grin

I’ve read through this whole thread. You have literally offered nothing informative other than “you’re a nerd” type responses and passive aggressive chit talk. Which in my humble opinion, if you are going to talk chit to or about a member, you should quote them so they are aware.
As far as the international man of mystery and blacked out face pictures and no pictures of Form’s face being posted on the internet-some people work in banks and drive around in their trucks taking Selfies with bucks they shot with chitty scopes, and some people do not. Not one of my male hunting buddies am I able to post a picture online without their faces being blacked out-not one of them. And yet all of them are full of excellent information.
Use whatever scope you want. But when someone offers information that differs with your opinion, stop with the egotistical “my feelings are hurt” responses. And counter with information/data/something useful.

Great talk!!!😂

And the sock puppet lays down the law. LOL. You lying pos you don’t have any friends.

I will offer this not shot, I've ghosted more, better, bigger, more species, states than better than 95% of members here, in weather from Hawaii, torrential rain, Alberta below freezing blah blah blah, for over 35, slumming Leopold glass, and have NEVER had a failure, not once.... Horses, quads boats, canoes, backpacks etc, not one fuucking failure.... Do I not hunt\shoot enough??? And is that passive aggressive enough for you? Am I that lucky?

.......and another thread gone to schit.

Would any of the smart (hunters) here do a little research, how many leupolds have been sold in over 100 years vs swfa 30 years??? 10,000 to 1??? I'm betting more, probably a lot more... Wonder why Leupold has more failures??? Use your heads for more than a hat rack...

I think it turned out how you thought it would... Grin

I will add that I prefer Nightforce sf NXS scopes and have kill tons of animals with them over the last six years when I made the change from Leupold which I also killed a pile of critters with but has some failures that I could not except.

Thanks for quoting me Fred. And also proving my point-nothing informative. I’ve already done the whole sock puppet song and dance. So you can search for my conversation with deflave regarding that. Let me save you the time though- I’m not a sock puppet. I read the fire for information. And it’s annoying filtering through the passive aggressive banter to actually get to people’s posts that have useful information to add. Anyway. I have a whitetail to get to, so y’all have fun amusing yourselves....and no one else

Luck,

What kinda scope you runnin? Haha

Yesterday, no rangefinder, but I’m thinking 350 ish yards, perty good wind, 80 gr ping pong ball via 6ai, 1 and done... no insulin involved...
upload a photo

Jud, I'm going to treat you like a brother, so hold on to your underwear My brother came out pretty good, you will too.

Formidolosus is real.

Dead animals have very little correlation to the reliability of a scope.

You don't dial, which is where most of us have problems with Leupold.

Zero retention is another subject. Zero retention on Leupold has failed me numerous times. I doubt that you doubt me on this, as I don't doubt they've they've treated you fine.

I've never had issue with NF and the Bushy LRHS, and they are far from pampered.

Actually the reliability of Lepould scopes is not a mystery. I'll be happy to spend one of our days on the javelina hunt testing scopes, dialing, tracking, return to zero, zero retention. I've done it, I know what is going to happen.

Your crosshairs are crooked!!! Haha

All due respect brother man, but dead critters does tell the tale, to me anyways, it means the scope is getting used, temp variables, bumped, dropped, carried etc... I’ve dialed m-1s, cds etc, I don’t make a habit out of it, my primary killed rifles are set and forget, and they serve me very well.

That said, I’m impressed with your Bushnell, it took some abuse and she shot good at 760!!

16Bore: The reason there are "so many scopes that suck" - is because there are so many scopes that are not made by Leupold & Stevens Company!
There now that was simple wasn't it?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Now you really did it!!! Haha

Rut roh Shaggie....

I reckon I won’t mention a Nikon Monarch 2X7 that was one of my favorites. Doesn’t matter, it’s the interweb...

I think that it is a function of people needing to pat themselves on the back by running down other people.

At least that one looks edible....
congrats!

More deer have been killed down south in the last 30 years with a Tasco mounted on see through rings than any other scope or combination. Thats not an exaggeration. Based on the dead critter theory, the sub $100 Tasco on see through mounts would be reliable. It absolutely is not.

I have killed many critters with Leupolds. They absolutely have failed me.

Just sighted in a Leupold Custom shop 3x with heavy duplex. Out of the box, i would think the cross hairs were centered. Maybe not....

First load tried. 150NBT and 54 grains of Big Game.

Started at 50 to get it on paper. Thru the bore looked close. It was 10inches high and 1 inch Right at 50yards. Hmmm, so much for any confidence in mounting a scope and going hunting. Walked it down with 3 shots.

Went to 100. 3 a little high into 1.25inches. Up 8 clicks and 4 left and out to 200. 3 into 2.25 inches practically dead nuts.

Back to 100: 4 at 3 inches high into perhaps 1.5. 3 went into 3/4.

Not great shooting, but 3x, Heavy Duplex with some target guessing, and first load tried in this rifle. I doubt if I will be able to blame Leupold on a Pa Woods Deer miss.

Went out like a biitch compared to a coues deer!!! 😂😂

Guess it depends on a guy’s definition of “reliable”, they’re obviously “holding zero” frequently enough to kill a shiit pot of deer!! 🤣🤣

Hell vortex has a cult like following by the flat bill competition crowd... I think more “shooters” here hate vortex more than leupold!!! 😆

I've still got a 3-9 monarch I love, sat on a 700 lss 338 rum without a break that shot under 1\2"

Lets ring out some scopes/rifles next February. I hate to be like you know who, but we'll toss them around for good measure, wring the neck out of the turrets, and see what they'll do.

Ya like to shoot Greg's prc too.

as aaside, you know how much hunting I do, around home, traveling, 4 states a year, Canada etc, do you think I'd slum leupold if I didn't have 100% confidence in em?

This thread is like a suicide prevention hotline...Some trying to talk others outta making a life ruining decision by running the wrong type of scope...
😎

I hear you......I drug Leupy's to Sonora, MX and Africa several times. Probably culled/killed near 300 big game animals with them. I still use 'em, along with Bushy Elite's that Clint turned me on to.

Hell Jud, its obvious you got confidence in them.

Fuuck I know it, I'm out man..... I'll just keep on keeping on.....😂😂

Thanks for the entertaining lunch time read.

Congrats on the deer Jud’.

Uncle johnny, I witnessed Clint thrash his Bushnell for 5 days!! Walking into a glassing spot the morning I killed my buck he fell on it, and it didn't sound good!!! After shooting 28 times to kill my buck with Bama 's gun I thought it was off, well back at camp, he smashed a rock at 750 something!!!

PS, it wasn't 28 shots, but several, though laying like a banana on a bed of cactus, several "guess" shots through brush didn't help either... Great hunt, good guys, and a dead buck, like a sore dick, ya just can't beat it!!😂😂

The most problems I’ve had and seen with some Leupold and Vortex scopes was with their optics made in the last 6-7 years “set and forget type scopes.

Way too much turret play in both elevation and windage, both while bore sighting and sighting in.

Several scopes of both manufacturers would have no reticle movement when spinning turrets to adjust a zero.

The Leupold/Vortex “Knock” used in an attempt to engage the erratic erector was silly, but tried.

😎

Haha thanks.. It does get funny.

PS, what scopes you runnin? Grin

Same...Nice buck JM...I hope your pack out sucked, like only western type of hunts can...Go Leupold! Grins 😂😎

I’m a peasant, I have Leupold, Burris and SWFA.

After typing that I probably need to call Beav’s suicide hotline.

After I smoked him, I was like fuuck!!! Thank God I had my trekking poles.... It was snake\salmon river breaks country for reference.... Wish my boy was with me, that's for sure!!!

Oh good lord, your fuucked like me!!! 😂😂

Jud, you don't practice laying prone in prickly pear?

Suicide Hotline.....What’s your situation?

Um, well, I hate myself for buying a Leupold and Burris scope and I’m depressed,,,,thinking I should do myself by jumping off this bridge an ending my long history of critter slaying misery...

Hotline....Jump, bitch!

LMFAO 😂😎

SLM,
You’ll live brother....Keep them dead critter pics coming

Jud, FWIW, I don't care what scope you use but for the love of life please don't pull off your shoes in my tent again.

No or guessIng where the vitals are in ocatillo!!😂😂😂

I still got a festered up cactus in my hip!!Haha the one in my calf that looked like Greg shot me with a 17 hmr is healed up good!!! Good times though brother, one of the best\top trips I've done for sure!!

Haha oh God damn, that shower at Greg's place was well needed, looked down at the water, looked like Rio Grande water!!!😂😂

I have 4 bushnell 4200,2 elites,1 4500,3 6500. I dont see me needing anything else in this lifetime. Im good

LMAO.........

Exactly, buuuuut, several here will say, you don't hunt hard, they are junk, they are not reliable, they do not maintain zero, failure rates are through the roof, you are a liar, blah blah blah.... As I said before, run whatcha brung, don't worry about other folks....

P.S., I have a 3200 with a firefly that has been $$$$

Oh fûck it! I love you guys too even form!
I jumped and just landed in 24 hr purgatory.
But I I’m with you [bleep] so it will be ok.

Happy thanksgiving scooter.

Its always the guys that have 50-100 rifles all scoped with leupolds that "never have problems" with them. Can you imagine how many times per year any of those 50-100 rifles get taken out and shot, let alone even taken out of the gun vault. I call bs as well. You know those rifles dont get shot. The sob is a collector, not a shooter.

How many times have you heard about a bad Nightforce? Its pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together.

Thanks, sport. Happy thanksgiving to you as well.

Fuuck Scott, nobody missed you , good ploy though

To the OP, I think you're over estimating SWFA. They may be popular on this site, but I have never seen one in the field when coming across other hunters.

Same is true of the Montana when it was the bees knees on here. Same with the now favored Fieldcraft. Still haven't seen one outside of a store.


Jud, wash your feet bud

Jud only washes after hunting season.

It ain't a good idea to wash until spring. A protective crust is a good thing to have in the winter.

Yep clam diggin, honey does til February, then it’s rams and knife boars on kuaui!!! Oh and dishes... I’ll be mommas biitch for 9 months!!! Haha

I’ve got a few dozen Leupold and some Zeiss Conquest. They work great for me. The leupolds are 45 years old to new.
I’m mostly a PD shooter, and coyote caller with some informal target shooting and deer hunting.
Never had an SWFA so was not aware they were the holy grail.

I would be willing to bet, 80% + of "hunters" have never heard of swfa......

Bet you’re way low with your 80%.

Me too...

Personally Swfa classics leave a lot to be desired.
Guess I’m prude but I have them the glass sucks something awful. I will stay with Nightforce as long as they maintain their current standards.
I have a c458 on the way but think the 3.5-15x5o is the top of the heap for killing fur. And MOAR is perfect for killing period.

I bet 80% of turret twisters have busted a Leupold....

All depends on what a guy is after. I busted about 8 mark4’s. Fûckn hate them will never own another one that will make the field. The old friction adjustment VX line is pretty good for a set and forget guy.

Just the other day a guy told me my new Ziess diavari was a pOS so some guys are never happy. lol

Which is waaaay less than, 80% of "hunters"....

Which brings up another subject, what percentage of "turret twisters" have made meat, via archery, or musket, with open sights of course. ... I'll bet, less than 10%.....

Whoa there Jud..... no need to get Testie....



Count me in that 10%

I've definitely made a impression on you, obviously.... When did I lost that? 4 years ago? It sure as fuuck beat eating 2 lbs of chicken livers..... Fuucking patriots!!! Grin

What’s happened?...KFC run outta chicken wings? 😂😎

😂😂, falcons beat the patriots.... Grin

Fuuckin Brady!!! Haha

That was at big Brian's house, you met with me. God damn corsican sheep nuts we ghosted earlier that day.... God damn it!!!Haha

Big Brian tells you to stuff goat nuts in your mouth...You stuff goat nuts. Laffin 😂🤣😎

No, I lost a bet, to one of big Bri 's buddy's 'll ladys, smartass...

I’m just regurgitating scope talk here on the ‘fire. I’d be willing to bet that VXII 3x9’s ride on more rifles than anything. I don’t know anyone in my locale that’s ever seen a SWFA, except for mine.

And the usual response is “WOW, that’s a big scope”

Because scope makers supply what people buy.

I would respectfully disagree and say that it's because people buy what scope makers supply.

So do optics companies just pull and idea out of their wazooola and try to sell it, or do you think they may know what the market says the demand is and will sell? My guess is the latter.

I think that the strategy in most products is "We'll make what we want to make (and make the most profit from), and people will buy it".

My personal experience is exactly opposite, the serious twisters I know are the real freaking deal, most of them are good, or better archers, myself included.

This is GREAT!


This is like the optics forum in the old days...lots of vitriol!

For the vast majority of hunters, their number one requirement is and probably should be, the ability to hold zero. All of the rest is based on personal preferences for different applications.

Same. I've killed something with a roundball and german silver sights each of the last 4 years and all of those in wide open country. And I turret twist for everything else. Guy has to stay sharp in various disciplines lol.

Shoot....I wuz just thinking I wanted to try a different kinda scope.


Epic!

So I need to scope a 340 Weatherby...(SWFA need not apply)....

You have two choices....NF or a Peep sight



Lefty

Mileage varies by locale I guess..... it’s not very common out here, but then again, the deer and hunting style are quite a bit different as well, and no elk either

This, and I know a few people.... grin

I bet there are enough leupolds in Lewis county Washington alone, to fill a train car... haha

Leupold 3.5x10

With or without CDS?

That’s what rides on the boys 340...

You’re not looking very hard if you claim there not out there.

Not surprising though.

They should just make a scope that is a set-forget with a turret that came be spun for fun, so a guy can impress himself and buds by twisting away, but nothing happens....Wait, they already make them...Damn it! 😬😎

I think it has more to do with the fact that for most real longer range shooters (not like our pard's neighbor), shooting is as much as a hobby and art as hunting, I know it is for me, including archery. You think I'm a rifle nut? I've got essentially an archery shop at home, do everything but build strings.

On another note, watching someone hunt with an out of tune bow drives me bonkers (90% of bows I see in the field). Will the out of tune bow kill? Most of the time within reasonable range, yes. Is it as efficient and reliable as a tuned bow, absolutely not.

I’m thinking about inventing a faux turret and just holding over. Then just tell people I turned it 10 clicks and boom!

Maybe just start talking in clicks too:

“That one was 12 clicks away”

“Ooof, 30 clicks...too far”

“That’s a 2 clicker right there.....”

“You like my scope? It’s clickalicious”

It’d be quite impressive.

Don’t forget....”Send It”......😂😎

A simple search will bring up pages..

A simple search of, “super sniper scope failures” is interesting as well, nothing is immune from failure. As my smith says about rifle barrels, you pay your money, and you take your chances...

True Beaver10; but, it's a matter of manufacturer's intent as to whether such scope has defective turrets.

Do you genuinely believe the failure rate- that is x amount of failures per 100 scopes- is the same between a Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40mm and a SWFA SS 3-9x42mm?

I believe, leupold works quite handily for me, my pards and hundreds of thousands of other other Americans... I also believe that swfa and nightforce fail, quite frequently it appears. Savvy?

To me, this is where this whole debate gets convoluted.

What is your definition of failure? To me that is not an apples to apples comparison. It seems you are comparing 2 products manufactured towards a totally different market with different expectations of each.

A person buying a VX3 as a “set and forget” scope is probably not going to consider values being incorrect a failure if it holds zero for them.

A person buying the SWFA that does not track accurately will consider it a failure.

Damn....I gotta work on my Clickenese.

Treating you like a brother again. The question was do you believe the failure rate per 100 is the same?

Everything has a failure rate. There’s a huge difference in that failure rate between those scopes.

To you- everyone that sees large numbers of scopes, Leupolds for instance, failing in actual use compared to SWFA and Nightforce is lying? And everyone who can’t even zero their own scope (hundreds of thousands of other Americans) are telling the truth? It doesn’t have flip all to do with killing a deer. It’s a BIG target at most ranges they are shot at, and there are hundreds of thousands of animals missed and wounded each year.

You don’t use Nightforce, you don’t use SWFA, you miss several times at a deer, blame the scope but it wasn’t the scope, claim that joe Bubba is the source of knowledge for optics, and that everyone one here who sees and shoots all of these scopes are lying?


There is almost no way that you are this ignorant or have such a low IQ that you believe what you write. You either have an unbelievabley high emotional attachment to an inanimate object, or you are bored and this is your outlet.

Remember-



As I’ve probably never seen a Leupold, and I probably live in my moms basement.

I try to live in a world of facts. However, just because someone else's personal experience differs from mine, I don't assume them to be a liar or even stupid.

Amen brother, amen.

I think you got it backwards, folks that have success with anything but what YOU claim is the best, are liars.... the simple fact of the matter, is leupold have worked very well for over 100 years, in both the field and shooting sports...I will say it 1 more time for you, run whatcha bring, don't worry about what others are runnin.... I've a safe full of people's that have garnished my walls, with lots of good bone, none of which came from a tree stand or a foodplot.. to me, leupold are not junk, are not failure prone, maintain zero amazingly well and just fuucking every time, weather they go to alberta, BC, Montana, idaho, Washington, Oregon, New Mexico, Hawaii,... is that really that hard to understand?

BTW, I am very very skeptical, this is the www after all. Remember the Blackhawk down story I cited yesterday? Do you wanna know how many "navy seals" I've met? Last one I met ended up being a cebee!!! Laffin

Carry on, I know I will, slumming that little gold ring and doing God's work... Haha

Exactly.... God forbid if something works for someone that you don't like.... I absolutely hate big dumb turrets, objectives over 42 mm, 30 mm tubes, jumbled up crosshairs, scopes that weigh over 16oz... that's my opinion, if you feel the need or like all t hose features, run it!!

My biggest gripe with Leupold has nothing to do with their reliability. The Leupold Campfire Exclusive Webcast was the biggest joke I've ever seen. If I didn't know better I'd have thought it parody.

BTW, me and Jud hunted together for a week and neither one of gave a crap about how the other scoped his rifle.

I see you edited your post formy, now I am ignorant, bored and have a low iq because I've used leupold for 35 years?? Haha I'd knew you'd show your ass eventually..... good talk!!

[quote=ctsmith]BTW, me and Jud hunted together for a week and neither one of gave a crap about how the other scoped his rifle.[/quote

No or what boots we had, what pack we had, how we tied our shoes, how we wiped our ass....

Agreed

...but we did discuss ass wiping this weekend.

There were a few years when I was doing a lot more shooting than now. Mostly 308's and I was buying 8 lb jugs of powder and 1000 count boxes of bullets two at a time. I've had a VX-III 4.5-14x40LR develop a parallax adjustment that wouldn't hold shot to shot, a VX-III 3.5-10x50 get a dead spot in its horizontal adjustment, a VX-II 4-12x40AO get loose inside and need an erector rebuild, a VX-7 2.5-10x45 show considerably more parallax than it should much past 100 yards, an M8 6x42AO Target need a rebuild since I dialed it so much moving it around on a number of rifles, and more recently had an M8 6x42 make me think the barrel on an accurate 243 had crapped out until I noticed the rattle the scope developed. I also have a Swarovski Z5 needing service.

I have a number of other Leupolds that have given excellent service, some over a very long time. One is a Vari-X III 2.5-8x36 I got about 1985. Still works great.

Sure, I hunt from an elevated stand and happily shoot over a food plot. Nevertheless I have popped more than a few caps and have had a few scopes go bad.

I just can't wade through 13 pages, so forgive me if this has been covered.

1.) Consumers by on price.
2.) Consumers prefer variable scopes
3.) Variable power scopes are more sophisticated, have more parts and are more expensive to build than are fixed scopes.
4.) SWFA SS scopes made their reputation on very good reasonably priced fixed power scopes. I have SWFA 6X42 BS 10X42. Clear and rugged.

5.) China can build quality or they will build on the cheap. China builds aircraft carriers, stealth fighters and nuclear bombs. They can reverse engineer anything, and WILL for a PRICE. Just because it is made in China is not automatically make it garbage. The market goes there most to keep costs down. They contract for price and quality is not the driving factor.


About 2 years ago I did a test of three upper end Chinese made scopes. I talked with JB about testing parameters and the ability of the ChiComs to make a quality product. In his words 'they will make whatever you pay them to make."

I took these three scopes, did low light testing, did tracking, did clarity on power adjustment etc on more than one rifle (Mostly 6.5 x 55 and 9.3 x 62). I then wrapped them up and put them in mail to several other members who mounted them on everything from 7 x 57 to .416 and banged away. Not one failed even after being shipped USPS to four different cities and back and being subjected to recoil from various calibers that were all "big enough".

What did I learn? These scopes were heavy. Steel tubes and lead glass. One was a S&B PMii clone that has Schott contract glass. Another wasa a TAC VEctor Paragon with Schott glass. No lead glass manufacturing in Europe so Schott Werks sends it to China. Scope was big and heavy. It worked. I thought it had a parallax issue at higher magnification. I saw that in the others also.

So why do scopes suck?

It's tough to build a high quality variable power scope in the $250-$300 price range. It's nigh impossible for $125. I see that the S&B Chicom clone is now going for $500 on EBAY. Not worth it. Buy a Leupold. Mine now sits on a Ruger 77/22. Another is on a Ruger 7mm Mag. It was a good experiment. For the money I spent on them, the SWFA 10X42 is a better scope.

I'm still laffin over that, even showed the old lady your text!!! Grin

Black Friday commeth.....

Not what I wrote or what I added. I corrected spelling and added moms basement. There’s only two people on this thread that have talked chit, you and Fred. You could ask questions directly to me if info is what you wanted.


I said-

“There is almost no way that you are this ignorant or have such a low IQ”. I don’t believe you are ignorant or have low IQ, but yes it does seem like you are bored.





Show one time where I’ve worried about what someone else uses, without them asking for info.

Haven't had to dig even once since then. Fixed it right up.

I've used sheit equipment to kill game many times! I've also driven a piece of sheit car halfway across the United States and made it! It didn't mean I was dumb it just meant I was poor at the time. Now if I had money and did that it would be a different story! 😂😂😂

I also have issues with the guy that throws his rifle/scope in a soft case or rack in the back of vehicle for months at time, even several seasons and then claim the scope is a "piece of chitt" because after 60,000 of dirt roads it won't hold adjustments. Scopes are precision optics.

Ok ok I’m sandbagging just a smidge.... grin

Now, for about the 5th time in this thread, leupold has served me very well, they’ve never failed me, not once, the serve my purposes quite handily....
170” and a 185” there, shot from my couch, along with a free range Hawian axis

176” here, from my couch..

VX 1 here

187” 31 1/2” cds kill there

Whoooooooa dude!!!! Ease up pard 😁 Nobody said you can't kill game with sheit equipment 😂😂😂

Just a ignorant low iq peckerwood that hunts with junk, oh and borderline diabetic according to fuuckalicious....

True! But knowbody said you can't kill game with one and knowbody is planning on taking your birthday away 😂😂😂

image uploading site

What brand of little hatchet is that? Looks like a handy size for splitting pelvis bones and whatnot.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, Jud, you're saying Leupold sucks?

It's easy to kill game with Sheit equipment! It ain't nothing special 😂😂😂

hd image upload

Easy Jud, you’re going full Sticktard.....easy man. Next thing you’ll be taking pictures of your rifles swimming.

Punched tags... 🤣

And more punched tags

Never bought a bottle of lock tite or a torque driver either... grin

Haha, what a [bleep] show.

I know one thing, when I have a scope question, one guy on this thread gets a pm.

Happy thanksgiving all.

I think leupold is reliable, dunno why....

Now flip that flatbill backwards , go punch paper and regale the masses with your “findings “....

Ps, thanks leupold for many years of fine service, great meals, and more memories than one man should be allowed....

Judman out....

Well, this thread turned in to a Sport's Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. Lot of nice racks there Judman.

Granfors bruk band hatchet

Didja pm “the man” about that Burris before you bought it?

Happy thanksgiving to you and your family as well Joel

I like Leupold. I also like Meopta and Nightforce. Rock on, Jud.

That said, I’d take a nightforce to a third world country to shoot bad guys.

I don’t know, Leupold only has 0.003% failure rate. Ha

Epic!

And that’s not all yet 16.... grin

Got more bone yet

Never seen a nightfarce either...



Though it’s coming off and getting replaced with a leupold before next year..

Triggered! Hey sometimes a guy just likes to stir [bleep] up , no problem haha.

Got to thinking back, never had a problem killing something with Leupold.. only scope related issue on a hunt was due to a loose base.

However they are atrocious in the mechanical department and have had many many that are simply unacceptable to do anything with but set and forget.

Keep off the turret and enjoy your Leupolds, no reason to get butt hurt over it. If you start really shooting a lot you’ll soon find that hits come a lot easier when [bleep] actually works. That isn’t a dig at not shooting, you don’t need to shoot 1,000s of rounds at the range yo be an excellent hunter. No one said you did, but if you can wrap your head around guys that really enjoy both then it really isn’t tough to figure out.

Every critter but one hanging in my loading room was done in with a Leupold. Not a big deal, I keep a few old heads in that room to remind me of friends that were on those hunts that are gone now, not necessarily for trophy quality.

Anymore pics of the antelope on the left?

well, imma go out on a limb and give you my .02 on things and its not just scopes either. i lump pretty much all commercially sell-able goods here. we,as a public with all the power i.e. money,have just taken whatever and not forced product manufacturers to produce goods without defects that shoulda never left the factory . we have proven that we will still buy half assed products and pay even more than before. so, really what does that say about us as a whole?? we accept way more than we should imho. i mean i know nothing is perfect but when you pay north of a grand or some even twice that for a scope,staying with optics here, it should be spot on a not have any issues. i think we have cut the qc guy out and will let anything go and hope the consumer doesn't notice the issue.
Big Ed

No butthurt, but when someone keeps tellin you you are ignorant, don’t hunt, don’t use your gear etc, well if that’s not proof, I don’t know what is... as far as punching paper, it means absolutely nothing to me, I’m a hunter, when I’m not hunting I’m researching hunting, doing yard work, fishing, drinking beer, spending time with the commander or now, with my grandson, Target shootin doesn’t interest me in the least, if that’s your thing rock on, buuuuuut, don’t tell me I don’t know wtf is going on when it comes to hunting/killin and what it takes to get it done...

I don’t . I think I only have kill photos of one of the deer up there. All three of the skull capped antelope will make b&c, the one to the right of that one is the biggest of the bunch even though he doesn’t look it in the picture.

Leupolds worked great when I was younger. Grin

Pretty nice collection Jud’.

Good antelope there rosco, shot lots of em just no bigguns... gonna cash max Wyoming points in next year, take as much time as needed and booner or bust

Max you say... we should talk 😜

I can draw any tag in the state, thinkin 114 , 61, 62???

Got max deer and elk too if you have any advice!! 😂😂

I hope Chris doesn't drop the price of the 5-20x50 HD like he did last year. If he does I'll have to buy another one.

im Sitting on max elk and one behind on deer.. I think my elk points will be spent on a late migration tag, My main hunting buddy has a guide license in Wyoming so I’m good there, just need to get off our asses and do it.

On the antelope I’m sure all of those units hold more than a few of what you’re after.

On second look I don’t think 114 would be in the running.

Thinkin 61&62 huh? Any others I should be lookin at?

60.. you’ve waited this long

I personally won’t build the points to draw one of the top units. Same friend has drawn 60 twice in the last 10 years, nailed the random tag both times the SOB! Both bucks he killed are booners, the biggest being 87, both killed during the archery season

Copy that thanks

Haven’t kept up with 67, but it’s worth a look. Took this buck there around 7-8 years ago, he’s over 80 as well. I think eastmans started listing that unit though so it might take all of them to get it..

I’m not listing units anymore in the open..feels like tha walls are closing in already 😉

That’s what I’m lookin for...

My best advice if you have time is go 5 days before the rifle hunt, take your bow and cover ground. Find your buck and try to kill it, if you don’t get it done with a bow then be on him at first light when the rifle season opens.. if you haven’t found a shooter by the time rifle season starts just go home and come back the last week of the hunt. Tough to do with all the travel, but that’s my approach.

Copy, was gonna go 4-5 prior to scout, didn’t know I could bow hunt too. Thanks rosco

Yep, just think there are only a handful of units that you can’t. Just make sure to buy the archery stamp.

Pronghorn are probably the easiest critter you can hunt to get a book head . That said it still isn’t easy, b&c size are no gimme on public land anywhere that I’m aware of.

👍 obliged

Just drove a arrow through one couple weeks ago in Montana, fun stuff

I was gonna make a sign but, kept spelling it wrong and ran out of paper.

😁😂😂😂🌑

Who said that? All I implied is that a good hunter can shoot lots of game with sheit equipment! Hell, I've done it myself! Keep on keeping on and eventually you when you've done it long enouph you will see what is being implied more clearly! Not trying to be an ass just maybe you got more learning to do and the only way your gonna learn it is get out there and hunt harder! One man's idea of hunting hard is often another man's idea of pussy footing around. No broken Leupolds tells a rather revealing story is all

Whoopsie...............😂😂😂

Dude, your not even on my radar.... does the sign say trystan???

Ok that made me laugh 😂

What gives is the task has changed. The only scopes with knobs of any sort to twist 20 years ago were either cheap garbage or target scopes. That's why cartridges that flattened trajectory like the 7mm STW came to be. Creedmoor 'n' co could not thrive 'til turrets became common and rangefinders became common.

Tom

I can say the same for Idaho. The campfire is a very small niche of shooters and scope "experts", it is doubtful that you would get more than the deer in the headlight look when mentioning them to the average shooter / hunter.

drover

Jud, nice critters, but Leupold still sucks (for me).

Or anyone else's for that matter.

Exactly

No it doesnt! Those are some awesome pics you got and thanks for sharing. I can appreciate that you get out and hunt a lot and that's never a bad thing.

No it doesnt! Those are some awesome pics you got and thanks for sharing. I can appreciate that you get out and hunt a lot and that's never a bad thing.

That's all I was trying to say.

I'm not good with words lol

One thing I would add to the conversation is that there are literally tens of thousands Leupold scopes out there for every SWFA, so taking that into consideration why would you not hear about more Leupold failures when most hunters have never heard of or seen a SWFA.

drover

Drover, I said that quite a few posts ago, but it flew right over some pointy heads...

Leupold vs NF: This is not rocket science. Heck, if I get the time I may video a scope failure test. I've tested before, more than once. I know which scope is going to fail first.

We go down rabbit holes in these discussions, but hey, its the optics forum. I don't think one person will claim that the Leupold will not fail before a mil spec scope at twice its weight.

The question becomes is a Leupold reliable enough for your application.

For my application, no it is not. I have failed them, more than once. It is MY experience. I will not use them. Trust me, I didn't willing switch out every scope in my arsenal.

For most "hunters" that don't twist, they are just fine, I won't argue with that. Leupold will most likely serve you well.

If you twist, I will go as far as to say I highly discourage the use of Leupold.

Jud,

You seem to be suggesting a guy can't have hunting success unless they have "the best" scope, and since you've had success hunting there must be absolutely nothing wrong with Leup scopes. I may be mis-reading you on that. Trouble is, your definition of success may not be the same as the next guy. Nobody else is making the claim that to be a successful hunter you have to use the most reliable scope possible. As far as I've seen, Form is simply talking failure rates of mechanical objects in tracking and zero retention. Do Leupolds fail more often than NF, SWFA, Bushnell top-shelf stuff? IME, yes. Does that mean you can't have a very successful hunting career with a Leup? Heck no. Does it mean you can't have a very successful target-shooting career, military career, etc, with a Leup? Well no, but now we're getting to a point where a scope's mechanical reliability really starts to matter, and the likelihood of the scope holding you back is getting larger. Some guys like to use their scopes both for a lot of hunting as well as a lot of shooting. Your success (hunting) and their success (hunting/target) may require different levels of scope mechanical integrity. And that's not a slight against guys who just HUNT. But the reality is that their scope needs are different. I've had a handful of Leups go down on me, mostly zero-retention issues, but in nearly every case I noticed the failure while shooting targets.

I'm a German car guy. I'm less picky about my trucks, but I really prefer German cars to Asian or domestic cars. I've been using them for a couple of decades, and have had REALLY good experiences with them. They've never failed on me, and I have no reason to use anything else. I'm objective enough to admit that Toyota has a lower average failure rate than my VWs or Audis, but I'm still not going to switch because the German stuff has other advantages, and I'm willing to accept the trade-off Same goes for scopes. We all have certain scope attributes that we value over others, and have different trade-offs that we're willing to accept.

We're not talking about absolute quantity of failures, we're talking observed failure rates. Failures per 100 scopes is the same metric whether we're talking about 1,000 scopes, or 1,000,000.

Good god, they work excellent for me, they’ve never failed me, I do a lot of hunting, I hunt in several, or all adverse conditions the hold zero, the cds I have are dead nuts, the m-1s I have work as advertised. I’m not lying... a lot of other folks aren’t lying either. I just don’t know how else to get it through that, I’m my opinion I don’t think leupolds sucks. Oh I’m a Toyota man too, fuuck Ford Chevy and dodge...

It didn't fly over anyone's head! Everyone read it and everyone lauphed! Why respond to a statement as ignorant as that? Your hunting experience is relevant but Forms extensive testing of scopes that far exceeds your experience counts for nothing? Ive used mostly Leupolds and about 12 years ago switched to SWFA'S but still have a 6X42 FX111. I tend to believe Formidilosis because what he says exactly matches what I have experienced. In fact what Form says matches the experiences of most who have used both scopes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with useing a Leupold to hunt with and they work but Your reaching for wonderland with your last preminition

Jordan, I think your miss interpreting my words, there’s a certain clan of folks here that think leupold are junk, they don’t track, retain zero fog up blah blah blah... to ME they’re not junk and they performed flawlessly over a pretty long hunting career, are nf junk nope. Are swfa junk, nope but they’re probably the ugliest cheapest looking scope on the market, and guess what, they fail!!! They fail plain and simple just like everything else

Good talk, tuck your skinny jeans in and tilt that flat bill...

I never figured you were. You've been fortunate and all your Leupold scopes have worked for you without ever a failure. Unfortunately, not all of mine have done so, and there are other guys like me with similar experiences. That doesn't mean any of us is lying, just that we have different experiences "playing the odds".

Jordan, until they do, I can’t cuss em, can’t hate em... I love the looks, how svelte they are, and there reliably

If you've never had a problem dialing Leupolds you haven't dialed much. Nothing wrong with that getting close is half the fun!

I hunt because I love venison so putting meat in my freezer is all I really care about. In fact the whitetail backstraps that my son in law cooked up tonight were absolutely delightful! I love all your pictures of horns though I'd much prefer to see a pic of a frying pan full of steak with instructions to your favorite recipe. How that steak gets on your plate makes no matter to me.

My apologies if I've read you wrong. I tend to take a man at his word, I just don't always correctly interpret his word

Agreed on SWFA's aesthetics, but when it comes to zero retention and tracking they fail less frequently than most everything else, including Leupold, IME.

lol, the Optics Forum is a "rough and tumble" place!
It's akin to a gaggle of old hens cackling, getting their feathers ruffled and all puffed up, shaking their fingers in someones face because they feel slighted.

On this point I can wholeheartedly agree with Jud, use whatever optic YOU want. (as long as it isn't a POS Leupold! lol , just kidding! )

The funny thing, I’ve lots of family and pards that run that little gold ring, I can’t think of 1 puke... serious shiit...

Thats why when I hear all these leupold failures I’m like wtf??

Ya if you always shoot stuff at 100 yds and 5" groups are of zero concern! If you shoot at the 100 yd target 100 times and hit it once and keep that target you might be a Redneck! Lol

Judman I used to be a die hard leupold guy. My favorite scope was always the 3.5-10x40, and I rode one atop all my primary hunting rigs. I dealt with the shoot em in adjustments at the range, I tapped the tube after each adjustment too. But the minute I started actually adjusting the turrets for shots outside the set it and forget mode I started having problems. I’ve even had problems with new ones on initial sight in. I have personally sent back at least 6 Leupolds for erector problems. It’s simply just not worth it to deal with that. Sadly I didn’t have to spend $1000 to get a scope that adjusts when I adjust it, and adjust back when I adjust it back. I’ve got all kinds of cool pics of dead critters killed by rifles that wore Leupolds but I’ve moved on to [bleep] that I have more confidence in, sadly that’s just about every other brand!

Depends on what one defines as a "failure". It's subjective.

If I'm reading you correctly, what's important to you is that you got your animal. For many, this holds true and that's the end all be all. Period.

For me, there's been plenty of times I've killed, but the shot placement/impact wasn't where it was suppose to be. Aiming for the neck and perhaps hit it in the shoulder. Or the shot is a little too high, low, or to the right or left.... you get the idea. Shot is a bit off.

Afterwards do some checking on the range and find the POI/POA off. No discernible reason as to why. Rifle wasn't dropped, bumped, or subjected to vibration in truck bed or ATV, etc. Typically it wouldn't be off to such a large degree that it would make a big difference in the field at my normal hunting range, as vitals are a pretty damn big target.... but still, doesn't give me warm fuzzies or confidence in the equipment.

Chasing zero on Leupold's was always frustrating.

For me, it simply isn't acceptable. Yes, I got my deer/pig,bear, whatever.... but knowing it's not tracking true, zero retention questionable, etc... just leaves me with no confidence in the equipment. I expect and demand more.

That's why I no longer use Leupold (as well as other brands/ and or specific models).

YMMV

I think this is changing, albeit slowly.SWFA does not advertise their scopes like Leopold or vortex, so they don't get the exposure. Also most hunters don't know enough, or shoot enough to know that their scope is compromised.. With the advent of long range hunting\shooting more hunters are beginning to know what they don't know. I went through it myself about 8 years ago, and continue to learn alot. I shoot SS 3x 15 and 3x9._ Love em.,but I don't care who shoots what. Not my problem, not my sandbox. My Leopolds didn't hold up to dialing so I switched. No fanfare. Interestingly, SS scopes showed up multiple times in Eastmans a couple of editions ago when hunting gear was listed. Times they are a changin.

Gemsbok filets (they call them "fillets"), Central Namibia. Course ground pepper and garlic salt. They are spectacular, especially when grilled over ironwood. Tikka 695 7mag, VX6 2-12x, 160 AB's.

You spent the $$$ and traveled all that way with a leupold???? Oh uncle Johnny, you daredevil you!!!!😂😂

Cool pic, Oryx is damn fine eatin!!

Jud Manchild......4 times, 60 animals counting about 15 jackals. Baboons were too smart.

How many “scope failures” could be attributed to hamfisted scope rings, misaligned bases, or f’ed receivers?


.....just to push for another 20 pages. 😉

Oh No....Here we go again. 🙄🍿😎

Nice work!!

Haha

Well said Jordan.

Attributes like weight, length, objective diameter, turret features, reticle styles, power ranges, glass quality, low light performance, eye relief, expected reliability, cost, and warranty differences combine to make ones scope choices a very personal endeavor.
And you have to match all that to fit the expected use to work in the majority of situations that may be encountered.
The chances of finding that perfect scope are rare (for me anyway) and just have to go with the ones that check the most boxes.
And everyone has to figure it out for themselves.

So what do you use now, Fost? looking to scope a 340 Weatherby. The last one I had sported a Z6, but I don't want to go that route again. Their X hairs are too thin fo me.

Nightforce NXS & SHV
Bushnell LRHS
SWFA SS
Schmidt & Bender Zenith & Stratos
Swarovski PH & PV


Needing a new scope for my .375 H&H and thinking about trying out a Trijicon Accupower or Accupoint

I was looking at the Trijicon also. Looks well built. The crimson trace looks interested also I hear Tim O’connor is onboard with crimson trace now. He left Leupold awhile ago probably got sick of [bleep] scopes.

My favorite scope I own is actually a relatively recent manufacture Weaver 2.5x20. I find it to be very agreeable.

I had those on my .30-30 and Ithaca 37 Deerslayer for years. Killed alot of deer with them and no issues after 400-500 12 gauge slugs..

This ones actually an aluminum tube and made in Japan. It's not the old K series.

JorgeI,
I like thicker reticles also. But the Swarovski Z6 2nd generation reticle are definitely heavier than when they were first released. I have a few of the 1.7-10x42 with the 2nd generation Plex. They are one of my favorite 2nd Focal reticles. And I like heavier first focal, but few and far between are imported now.
I did buy and return a demo Z6 1.7-10x42 several days ago. It has the 1st generation Plex. When I first looked through it, I thought what the hell !! Significant difference between it and 2nd generation reticle. I was surprised there was still a first generation reticle made in Austria still in circulation. That reticle was unusable for me.


So what do you use now, Fost? looking to scope a 340 Weatherby. The last one I had sported a Z6, but I don't want to go that route again. Their X hairs are too thin fo me.
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Mine are Japan manuf. too. Still have them and they still work fine.

I am not overly fond of the NF exposed turrets nor their very thin reticle. I wanted to buy their 1-8 a while back but they only sold the capped elevation turret to the po-lice and other important people. So to hell with them.

The SHV with a Forceplex?

The short answer to so many scopes that suck is that many people want to buy them. I worked the gun counter at Academy for about a year after I retired. I remember a guy coming in with a $700 rifle and wanting to put a $50 Simmons on it.

I consider the SHV 3-10X42 w/Forceplex as one of the most versatile scopes for Whitetail hunting in areas where shots can vary from muzzle to way-out-yonder. Throw in rugged use if ya want to, no problem for the scope.

What a Trainwreck of a thread...

You were forewarned...

And when is it NOT on the Optics board?!

Fair point...grin...

Epic’er!

I’m stull wondering how many scopes “puke” due to overtightend rings, misaligned bases/receivers, and other stupid schit.

I bet a fair amount...

Wow it made text status even.... 🤣🤣

X2

Well, as I mentioned in another thread I puked a Burris Veracity this year.

Got an email today from Burris saying they were replacing it as it was non-repairable. How f’d up does a scope need to be for them not to be able to fix it?

If it takes a guy three hours to fix it and his labor cost is more that 40% of their oem cost, and the successful repair is in anyway questionable. The math is on the side of the consumer.
Gotta figure they probably only cost 320$ to make.

Wow right?? Just quit holding zero Joel?

I’ve had three scopes from two different manufacturers end up with either parts rattling around inside or objects in the field of view. In each case the scopes were replaced. Actually that rifle has eaten four scopes. The fourth just started pointing the reticle in random directions resulting in ever increasing group sizes. That one was frustrating because starting off so subtle it took a while to diagnose. Edit: that scope was just repaired; new erector system.

Yeah it was a disaster. Not much confidence in the replacement.

I'll be sending a XTRII to Burris soon. The only thing wrong with it, is the illuminated reticle quit/don't work. Here's to hoping they replace it with a XTRIII......

They told me an old scope was not repairable and it just needed a cleaning. I regretfully agreed to take their replacement scope.

Yeah I'm a very famous campfire scope expert fruit that is self bragging about how under tighten things was fat people think he's an expert dumb bastards