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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: slumlord] #14342723 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by slumlord
Those ups trucks are geo tracked by the company, why not just ease back let them drive to "where ever" and let em ditch or run out of fuel , helicopter could still follow

Be less tense and less need for everyone to get all Tackleberry and shoot innocents.

Just a scenario.

Oh well what's done is done.


Interesting to see some of the cops from 1/10 mile back running up after the truck had been subdued. What, did they want to dump a magazine too??



That may indeed have been the best course of action. I can assure you though that there are substantial risks in that plan of action. You had two armed robbers who were believed to have fired shots departing in a UPS vehicle with a hostage. That vehicle will be dumped at the first available opportunity. At that point they are likely going to take the most readily available vehicle and likely the occupants.

I was a slow convert to police no-pursuit policies for moving violations, but I eventually got there. I may one day come around to the idea of non-pursuit of armed robbers with hostages.

BP-B2

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: 12344mag] #14342740 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Come on, you are going to criticize them and all you can offer as an alternative plan of action is "anything but engage them where they did?"

An officer on scene said that when the truck came to a stop the robbers started shooting indiscriminately. You are saying when they did that, the cops should have remained in their cars?



Cops should have never blocked that intersection and used the civilians to make a barricade and once involved in the fight they should have never used a civilian as cover.

I've seen cops block cross traffic for perps to continue through an intersection unheeded by cross traffic and then stop them where things are less likely to involve citizens that's what should have happened here.

There was a bank robbery here local and they let the perps go on down the highway unheeded until they could catch them is a much less populated area, they even blocked on ramps to keep traffic off of the highway. They did a great job an only the perps died when they crashed their vehicle and decided to go out in a blaze of glory.

There's a whole lot of fuqking up in this chase and it's going to get expensive for sure.


It obviously didn't work out this way, but what if the robbers, in the face of overwhelming force, surrendered rather than opened fire at that point. Would we be criticizing the decision to block the intersection?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342759 12/06/19
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Paul, yea they couldve still carjacked someone else then on and on, till someone gets hurt.

Or...maybe they do something strange like give up.

Bad guys rarely have a plan that doesn't end in failure.


I think even by then, if they wouldve give up; the law wouldve been too itchy to believe it wasnt a ruse.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342780 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
No matter what transpired or what situation people feel the cops were in there’s ZERO justification for killing innocent lives when up to that point nobody else had been killed. There’s no justification for good guys killing innocent civilians, NONE!



The information that LE had was that shots were fired prior to their response to the robbery.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...-to-chase-with-stolen-ups-truck-shootout


Yes sir I saw that. Shots fired is a far cry from man down with a GSW. Like I said, up until the cops fired shots nobody had been shot, after the 19 cops got to fulfill their wet dreams there were 2 innocent people dead including the hostage.

It’s a tough situation that was obviously exacerbated by ineptness, poor training, the desire to get your first kill, etc.

The Finnicum incident in Oregon was a great example of the blood thirsty desire some cops have to get a notch on their belt. The FBI fired when it was no longer necessary out of that same desire, they then lied about it in an attempt to cover it up.

I just can’t see how killing 2 innocent people in this case can be acceptable or excused.....it’s not acceptable. As a gentleman earlier said, if this was war the soldier that killed non combatants would face a court martial but in this case 2 innocent people were killed and it’ll be written off as the cost of doing business. Sad deal all the way around.


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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342794 12/06/19
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You know, those Muzzies are pretty smart with their tactics of mixing in with humans and using them as shields.

IC-A

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: AcesNeights] #14342814 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
No matter what transpired or what situation people feel the cops were in there’s ZERO justification for killing innocent lives when up to that point nobody else had been killed. There’s no justification for good guys killing innocent civilians, NONE!



The information that LE had was that shots were fired prior to their response to the robbery.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...-to-chase-with-stolen-ups-truck-shootout


Yes sir I saw that. Shots fired is a far cry from man down with a GSW. Like I said, up until the cops fired shots nobody had been shot, after the 19 cops got to fulfill their wet dreams there were 2 innocent people dead including the hostage.

It’s a tough situation that was obviously exacerbated by ineptness, poor training, the desire to get your first kill, etc.

The Finnicum incident in Oregon was a great example of the blood thirsty desire some cops have to get a notch on their belt. The FBI fired when it was no longer necessary out of that same desire, they then lied about it in an attempt to cover it up.

I just can’t see how killing 2 innocent people in this case can be acceptable or excused.....it’s not acceptable. As a gentleman earlier said, if this was war the soldier that killed non combatants would face a court martial but in this case 2 innocent people were killed and it’ll be written off as the cost of doing business. Sad deal all the way around.



You are grossly uninformed if you think cops are looking for a notch in their belt. I spent 20 years on active duty with the Coast Guard doing maritime law enforcement. NONE of my peers had that mentality. I often worked hand-in-hand with officers from other federal, state and local agencies. I also earned my certification as a reserve deputy with Harrison County in Mississippi. I knew a few officers who were a tad more gung-ho than I was comfortable with, but to a man or woman when you had an honest discussion with them they would tell you that their hope would be that they would never have to use deadly force. And they meant it.

The killing of two innocent people is heartbreaking and tragic. Unfortunately in armed and hostile situations law enforcement officers and agencies will sometimes take a course of action where innocent people are put at risk. That is unavoidable.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342817 12/06/19
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Again...had to kill those good guys to protect them from the bag guys. Got it.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342829 12/06/19
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I think its pretty obvious that the general population thats aware of this, is upset over it.

The general population is the paying customer here. You can say they dont know or understand, but the fact of the matter is, they dont like what they saw, and rightfully so.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342839 12/06/19
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I worked in law enforcement and I know of what I speak. 😉. I was also assigned to marine patrol, not that that has anything to do with this situation, so I do know what I’m saying and it comes from first hand knowledge. I worked with guys that openly yearned for the opportunity to fire their Beretta 96’s in anger.

Reality is what we witness, fantasy is what we use to excuse this kind of stupidity.

You’ve conveniently forgotten about Waco, Ruby Ridge, Burns Oregon and countless smaller incidents like this one. If you or anyone thinks those guys weren’t amped up to use deadly force in any of the aforementioned incidents then you’re grossly ignorant of reality.

19 officers opened fire on a crowded freeway firing 200 or more rounds......GMAFB.


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: Ejp1234] #14342843 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by Ejp1234
I think its pretty obvious that the general population thats aware of this, is upset over it.

The general population is the paying customer here. You can say they dont know or understand, but the fact of the matter is, they dont like what they saw, and rightfully so.



If the taxpayers don't want enforcement agencies pursuing armed hostage takers, then by all means they should make their voices heard, get what they want, and accept the inevitable consequences.

IC-B

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: AcesNeights] #14342845 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by AcesNeights


19 officers opened fire on a crowded freeway firing 200 or more rounds......GMAFB.


Those officers were under fire, as were other innocent people. What would you have done if you were on the job in those circumstances?

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342858 12/06/19
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And here we go.......................

’They murdered him:’ Family of UPS driver killed in shootout lashes out at police

[Linked Image from local10.com]

MIRAMAR – While mourning his death, the family of the UPS driver killed in Thursday’s shootout in Miramar is also lashing out at police who they believe are responsible for the loss of life.

“They murdered him,” said Joe Merino, the stepfather of Frank Ordonez. “I hope you can understand that and how I feel because it could have been prevented.”

While admitting he’s not a police officer, Merino wonders why there was a rush to open fire at the truck before other options were considered.

“I have common sense, like we all do and it shows me where’s the protocol? Where was protocol? Where was SWAT? Where was the hostage negotiator? Where was the sniper?”

“They shot him dead!"

Merino believes police failed to consider the innocent victims, including his stepson, during the incident.

“The negligence, the irresponsibility, the lack of life, the lack of concern. The disregard for life for the victim."

A former UPS employee himself, Merino says the video of the shootout is proof that police acted inappropriately at the scene, calling it the “wild, wild west.”

“There’s bullets everywhere. It was a war zone. How can this happen in today’s day and age?”

Merino says the family remains in shock less 24 hours after Ordonez’s death, having not slept all night. He added that the family was frustrated about the original lack of communication from law enforcement officials regarding their son’s status.

Ordonez was killed after gunfire broke out between police and the two suspects who stole the UPS truck after an attempted armed robbery in Coral Gables. Police opened fire after the truck came to a stop on Miramar Parkway. Ordonez, the two suspects and an innocent bystander were killed.

Using the handle @Geneviemerino, “Genny” mourned the loss of her brother on Twitter, but also blames the police for his death.

“Today I lost my brother because of the (expletive) negligence and stupidity of the police." “Genny" wrote in the post. "Instead of negotiating with a hostage situation they just shot everyone.”

https://www.local10.com/news/local/...killed-in-shootout-lashes-out-at-police/

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342860 12/06/19
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I can't help but wonder how the conversation will change if it is learned that the robbers killed the UPS driver and the motorist.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: JeffA] #14342865 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by JeffA
And here we go.......................

’They murdered him:’ Family of UPS driver killed in shootout lashes out at police

[Linked Image from local10.com]

MIRAMAR – While mourning his death, the family of the UPS driver killed in Thursday’s shootout in Miramar is also lashing out at police who they believe are responsible for the loss of life.

“They murdered him,” said Joe Merino, the stepfather of Frank Ordonez. “I hope you can understand that and how I feel because it could have been prevented.”

While admitting he’s not a police officer, Merino wonders why there was a rush to open fire at the truck before other options were considered.

“I have common sense, like we all do and it shows me where’s the protocol? Where was protocol? Where was SWAT? Where was the hostage negotiator? Where was the sniper?”

“They shot him dead!"

Merino believes police failed to consider the innocent victims, including his stepson, during the incident.

“The negligence, the irresponsibility, the lack of life, the lack of concern. The disregard for life for the victim."

A former UPS employee himself, Merino says the video of the shootout is proof that police acted inappropriately at the scene, calling it the “wild, wild west.”

“There’s bullets everywhere. It was a war zone. How can this happen in today’s day and age?”

Merino says the family remains in shock less 24 hours after Ordonez’s death, having not slept all night. He added that the family was frustrated about the original lack of communication from law enforcement officials regarding their son’s status.

Ordonez was killed after gunfire broke out between police and the two suspects who stole the UPS truck after an attempted armed robbery in Coral Gables. Police opened fire after the truck came to a stop on Miramar Parkway. Ordonez, the two suspects and an innocent bystander were killed.

Using the handle @Geneviemerino, “Genny” mourned the loss of her brother on Twitter, but also blames the police for his death.

“Today I lost my brother because of the (expletive) negligence and stupidity of the police." “Genny" wrote in the post. "Instead of negotiating with a hostage situation they just shot everyone.”

https://www.local10.com/news/local/...killed-in-shootout-lashes-out-at-police/



I didn't realize that we had already learned that it was the cops who fired the fatal shot into the UPS driver. The driver's brother must be one hell of a negotiator if he is willing to negotiate with armed robbers who are shooting at him.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342872 12/06/19
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What a cluster fugk. Police using other citizens as shields is a horrible look.

Have they reported the identities of the folks killed in the crossfire? Godspeed to them both.

While nobody, Id include the police brass and officers, likely thinks this was handled well, I can certainly see how it got there. [bleep] hit the fan quick and nobody had a plan.


“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342884 12/06/19
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Video of UPS driver posted by sister..

https://twitter.com/i/status/1202823454178848768

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: akasparky] #14342887 12/06/19
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UPS man had a better chance to live if the robbers had gotten away. The dead civilian damn sure would be alive. Way to go cops, at least you went home alive at the end of your shift all jacked up on adrenaline from mag dumps....


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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: PaulBarnard] #14342894 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by AcesNeights


19 officers opened fire on a crowded freeway firing 200 or more rounds......GMAFB.


Those officers were under fire, as were other innocent people. What would you have done if you were on the job in those circumstances?


I wouldn’t have killed innocents, that much I’m certain of. 😉.

You think that’s acceptable?


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: MadMooner] #14342896 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by MadMooner
Police using other citizens as shields is a horrible look.




I didn't see that happen. I did see them using the vehicles for cover. If I am in a situation where I am going to have to try to take out someone shooting at me or others and my choices are standing in the open or using the nearest vehicle, I am going to use the nearest vehicle. For me it would be reflexive.

Re: Hail of Gunfire After Armed Robbery (Uncensored) [Re: AcesNeights] #14342908 12/06/19
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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by AcesNeights


19 officers opened fire on a crowded freeway firing 200 or more rounds......GMAFB.


Those officers were under fire, as were other innocent people. What would you have done if you were on the job in those circumstances?


I wouldn’t have killed innocents, that much I’m certain of. 😉.

You think that’s acceptable?



I do not think it's acceptable.

So you are not going to shoot at the guys trying to kill innocent people and your peers? Got it.

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